Shōgun Episode 8 Hiromatsu Seppuku Scene Explained
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- čas přidán 11. 04. 2024
- What exactly happened during Hiromatsu's seppuku scene?? Did Toranaga & Hiromatsu pre plan it, or was there something deeper going on?? Find out here!!!
Also, a big shout out to our live chat. Alot of you definitely helped convince me that there was something deeper happening here, this video is dedicated to all of you.
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At that time, Hiramatsu made the best and greatest decision a samurai could make in order to avoid division and to improve the command of Toranaga, his subordinates, and the Toranaga army in the war that was about to begin. was. ``I do what I can to the best of my ability when I can. I risked my life to protect Toranaga and his clan and raise their morale.'' This is one of the samurai spirits. If things had remained as they were, Toranaga would have sentenced the other daimyo to commit seppuku, and he would have to do so again. Or maybe many people have betrayed him.
Hiramatsu knew that Toranaga was willing to fight, but he thought there might also be a spy there. In order for Osaka to know that Toranaga had been completely defeated and had lost his morale, Hiramatsu's seppuku was the ultimate wedge. When Toranaga told Hiramatsu to die, Toranaga said in his heart, ``Hiramatsu, I understand how you feel,'' ``Thank you for your loyalty,'' and ``I will not let your death be in vain.'' The chief expressed his gratitude and told Hiramatsu that his death would not be in vain. It's eye contact. They understood each other through eye contact.
Which is more important, extending the life of just one family or Japan as a whole? Toranaga's words that Japan should not be divided.
Hiramatsu's feelings were, ``If my life will raise the morale of the clan and unite them, then I will happily dedicate my life to loyalty.'' Almost synonymous.
To add to your breakdown. In that scene that you mentioned in 2:46, Hiromatsu made a grievous mistake: he told the people present there about Toranaga’s plans, in a public space, where there might be spies or traitors, heck yabushige was also there. Since toranaga was trying to sell that he is totally defeated, even a minor leak like this, if delivered via pigeon, would have caused the entire enterprise to fail. So therefore, first and foremost, Hiromatsu had to rectify this error. As a bonus, he prevented every other retainer from dying that day. Plus he was also able to tell his son that the plan was still on without arousing suspicion by having Buntaro second him.
In chess this move would most likely be “the queen’s sacrifice”; where you sacrifice your strongest piece but that leaves your other pieces in stronger positions.
I doubt there were any offscreen conversations. In fact, in the scene itself, Toranaga was trying to convince hiromatsu that he really should not do this with the line “die with me in Osaka” instead of “surrender beside me” or “commit seppuku with me”. Choice of words are important.
Understanding only passed between them about what was going on when hiromatsu told him “so you do believe in a pointless death” which is a callback to episode one when Fuji’s husband and baby had to commit seppuku for speaking out of turn. That’s the time that Toranaga knew that Hiromatsu knew what the plan is and is doing this to ensure that it succeeds.
Truth be told, Hiromatsu left Toranaga with the hardest role on that scene: to keep his mask on, to appear enraged by the apparent disloyalty of hiromatsu; and to not mourn him in that moment.😢😢😢
You verry clever, how can i know like you
The two tells that tipped me off were
1. "So you do believe in a pointless death" Hiromatsu's silent answer was... neither do I
2. When the Edo Generals reached for thier swords, Hiromatsu jumped in knowing that he and his were much less important than they and theirs
One last point, notice the looks, the eyes, between Hiromatsu and Toronaga
Yea it makes the scene even more impactful imo & makes Hiromatsu's sacrifice even more impressive.
Ahhh the very famous sudoku :p. I think you're onto something. Definitely, i think no discussion necessary, these 2 have known each other long enough. But then again, that's just what i would like. Thanks for another awesome video 😊.
Thanks for watching 🙏
Hiromatsu knows Toronaga so well he knew what needed to be done, The other logical conclusions could have been his generals commiting seppuku or them killing Toronaga
I feel like the scene works 10× better knowing they hadn't pre planned it & Hiromatsu just knew his duty that well & knew what needed to be done. Incredible scene.
I felt like thoranaga blinked differently to hiromatsu during the scene trying to secretly convey the message that he wasnt giving up. For me Hiromatsu received the message correctly and died for a greater cause
This happened in the same scene in Vinland saga when askeladd pretend to go on rampage in order to make king Canute as king
Sorry my English is bad😅
The other general wasnt drawing his sword to attack he was most likely going to commit sepukku himself. Hiromatsu wanted to take his own instead of the other General's because Toranaga needs their support and man power. Hiromatsu's support can be passed down to Buntaro which is what he does. He makes the situation more about himself and toranaga and saves the other general's lives, possibly more than one to keep their army intact. Still not sure if Hiro just wanted to save the other generals or if he was helping with the plan because he says some personal stuff to toranaga that the other generals wouldnt really understand. like when he says "so you do believe in pointless death" it was like he was really trying to pry the truth
I don't think he was getting ready to commit seppuku, all of his generals were clearly not going along with his plan. I think Hiromatsu saw that revolt was in the air & chose to act first
I don’t think so, that general in particular was the loudest at voicing his displeasure with Toranaga. It wouldn’t make much sense for him to commit seppuku there if he wasn’t willing to do so with Toranaga in Osaka.
Considering the cultural emphasis on loyalty Idont think its likely that a violent confrontation would occur. Regardless or surrender or crimson sky they are accepting certain death and its just a matter of choosing their own death
😎👍❕️
Better to lose one older warrior than losing three younger warriors..
#PurposefulSacrifice
Nah, he better had talked about it before doing that.
Can't die on a hunch
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🙏
Thanks for the spoiler
You do realize this is youtube right? You can't expect content creators to not put out spoiler videos, especially when the episodes been out for multiple days already.
@@BigDago56 You do realize those CZcamsrs don't mention tells on the thumbnail right. And most add spoiler alert? It's 2024 for godsake, get with the program. This is like CZcams 101 from 10 years ago.
@xjuanx92 lol are you serious? Not only have I seen dozens of spoiler videos on this topic alone right in the thumbnail, but also yes this IS 2024, if you were trying to avoid spoilers then CZcams is literally the last place you should be browsing. YT is filled with them.
@@xjuanx92sorry but I gotta disagree with you here. If you were trying to avoid spoilers then CZcams is probably the last site you should visit. And the episode has already been out for 4 days.
@@BigDago56 Ahh I see. Skimming through slides of thumbnails I should expect it seeing them. Riiiight.