John Blackthorne Faces Lord Toranaga - Scene | Shōgun | FX
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- čas přidán 8. 03. 2024
- Blackthorne is brought before Lord Toranaga in Osaka Castle and faces off with a new translator, Father Alvito. FX’s Shōgun is now streaming on Hulu.
Shōgun, Episode 2.
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#Shogun #FX
Based on James Clavell’s novel, FX’s Shōgun is set in Japan in the year 1600 at the dawn of a century-defining civil war. Lord Yoshii Toranaga is fighting for his life as his enemies on the Council of Regents unite against him, when a mysterious European ship is found marooned in a nearby fishing village.
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John Blackthorne Faces Lord Toranaga - Scene | Shōgun | FX
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I am not a pirate.
IT IS WAR.
Well he kinda was 🙄
Remember the words of Aristoteles to Alexander the Great: This man has a boat he is called a pirate, this other has 100 boats he is called an admiral.
@FXNetworks, if the show is consistently this perfect, it deserves to have the story expanded beyond the ‘Shogun’ book. I’ve witnessed a masterpiece and I want more (greedy perhaps, but what do you expect when facing perfection?)
@@BBD1 really not pirate. He was a corsair, with the right / marquese - to attack and plunder spanish and portuguese. None other! it WAS a cheap sort of warfare for the state. So for the spaniards he was a pirate, but not for any others, as Japan... So he could explain this more clearly than here, now when he had 2 interpretors. His problem was, Japan WERE in coalition with spanish / protuguse, sort of,
As speaker of Japanese language, I must say not enough credit is given to the actor playing the priest in this scene. The fact that he switches between English and Japanese with such fluency is harder than most people think. Specially considering he is using archaic Japanese vocabulary, albeit with a hint of English accent, it is flawless in its delivery.
Of course, he IS playing the role of a trained, experienced, gifted interpretor. But yeah, he plays his role perfectly - I trust your description.
@@barneydenstad2148 I know what you mean. If he is playing the part, one would reason he doesn´t have to know the meaning of the words he is memorizing for this scene. But judging by his accent, intonation, and fluency, it seems to me that he is actually a western who did learn Japanese before playing this role. If am mistaken, then all the more reason to admire his professionalism.
I have seen countless Hollywood movies where the western characters spoke with butchered Japanese despite the role considering them "experts", and even "Japanese characters" (usually Asian actors not from Japan) speaking weird Japanese. This series is a blow of fresh air, where I feel like I am watching a "Taika dorama" (Japanese historic dramas) airing in NHK.
I'm glad to see that someone's trying to provide a reasonable representation of a foreign culture, because the unique differences that makes them unique is what makes them interesting. But, I guarantee you that my mimicking of Toshiro Mifune's gruff voice will not be recognizable by anyone from Japan, unfortunately!
🤣👍
This is cool to hear.
I believe you. Can you suggest any books that might help me to learn Japanese? It's a beautiful country and culture and I've always been very curious about learning this language.
The second Toranaga finds out Blackthorne isn't catholic, you can see in his eyes the wheels turning and he starts planning on how to use this to his advantage. Brilliant acting 👍👍
The way I see it is, he is starting to realize just how big the world really is.
Toranaga is truly one of the smartest men in all of fiction. Never lost a battle, and it shows.
First time hearing that name. Is he Nobunaga?
Ieyasu apparently
@@condorX2 no, Goroda is mentioned sometimes as the former leader of Japan, he was killed before the events of story and that's who Nobunaga is based on. Mariko's dad, Akechi Jinsai, had Goroda assassinated.
I like the way it transitions into a conversation between just Toranaga and Blackthorn, despite them speaking completely different languages.
That transition was seamless. So masterfully done.
It helps to shorten the story, and make the discussion easy to follow,,,
Yeah, very good directing decision, after they establish that the Priest will not twist the words, so we viewers can ignore him when Blackthrone and Toranaga talk to each other.
@@Arkkimonni I seem to recall, in the 1980 version, they did show the more tedious inter-translating sequences, and it did take longer to get through the conversation....
通訳がいたと言う前提で2ヶ国語をミックスさせたこの演出は素晴らしいですね
Remember the words of Aristoteles to Alexander the Great: This man has a boat he is called a pirate, this other has 100 boats he is called an admiral.
Aristotle.
@@Shamino1 Arseturtle
@@denisrivarola2387 Arsentitle
@@CrniWuk Arsenio
Sue-crates.
This show better win alot of Emmys
they picked the perfect date to air it
Nah, it’s not pink enough. No famous actors & not enough boobs so probably not. 😅
Unfortunately shows that air in the spring never get any nominations. Besides if white lotus comes out this year forget it.
It's a shame there is no Emmy equivalent to the Oscar for constume design.
It's decent. It's not _that_ good.
4:54
am I just noticing Lord Toranaga's face at the end. when his jawbones move, it's like he's smiling without smiling or laughing.
I think some would call this a "knowing" or "scheming/plotting" face, though I don't know if we have a specific term for the expression.
I have read Shogun 5 times, watched the original twice that. This is a masterpiece of cultural history as was the first. Only better than the first. The language is impeccable.
My daughter in law is a Tokyo girl but now an Australian citizen. She was a trained high school history teacher in her homeland. She tells me that this series so far is a highly authentic depiction of feudal Japan.
Same here. But what I dislike so far, is the pace of the show.
Three episodes in and I love this show.
Small detail, but I love that Mariko says "Padre-Sama". She could've used a Japanese word for a priest. But makes the clear distinction of a authority within the Christian faith to differenciate between him and the other shinto priests.
She could've just said Priest or father but she used Padre which is what portuguese calls them, indicating the whole sequence is in portuguese not english
Except the sequence was not in Portugese
@@aimanmarzuqi4804in the show, when you hear english they're actually speaking portugese
@@aimanmarzuqi4804 The conceit of the English dialogue is that it's portoguese. I believe also he speaks "Dutch" with a Dutchman when he's locked up and it's in English as well.
it's not portugese, nor portoguese, it's Portuguese, ffs.
I love that this masterpiece is getting the attention it deserves, crushes anything Hollywood's put out recently
FX usually delivers
if FX isn't considered "Hollywood" then nothing is lmao.
Who's the Portuguese person??
I'm skeptical they can remake the 80s version without inserting a homeaux agenda.
It’s good but slow down with the ‘masterpiece’ we are four episodes in
Never had a resounding interest for japanese history. I think its a testament to the show that ANYONE can enjoy this. Not just people with an interest in history. What a show.
You should. It’s pretty wild tbh
I always was, mostly the time of Sengoku Jidai and Fall of the Tokugawa Shogunate in XIX century. I can blame certain Total War games for that and also books related to the topic.
Overal the show is great, in certain ways it actually improves on the original series. Book is also a recommended read, Clavell writes quite historically accurate books, though he self-admittedly plays with a lot of facts, basing his characters on real people, but also changing other stuff. It's still entertaining, but it's not a historical documentary so keep that in mind.
So this is based off the novel Shogun which is based off the historical character William Adams?
@@shawnoconnor4633 Yeah, the book romanticize his life and many things are different from the historical records.
no. you only watch this show for the white dude. hypocrisy and racism at its finest: complains about black people replacing white actors, but don't mind whites being a main character in asian movies.
"See, there's Catholics and Protestants..."
The entire Byzantine Empire: [stares in greek]
Byzantine Empire was long gone by this time.
Eastetn Roman Empire was no more in 1600 😂😂😂😂
Unless you meant the Greek Orthodox Church
@@1412Bunny Yep, the Turks took care of than by than.
The tension between the Catholic Priest and the English Blackthorne is greater than most would understand. England at that very moment was seeking out and executing those Catholic priests who were Jesuits. The Jesuits were trying to bring Anglican England back to the Catholic fold. This fact would have been well known to both of them.
i live in Munich: the centre of the counter-reformation. In the city centre is St Michael's Church; a Jesuit church. Next to it was a Jesuit training college - where they would train missionaries like in this clip, but also to go into Britain to try and stir things up. If caught, they faced agonising deaths.
Yep, this was only a decade or so after the Spanish Armada debacle.
@@brandonday2494 And the English attempt to place Don Antonio on the Portuguese throne. People forget that up until Spain took over Portugal in 1580 the Portuguese had traditionally been English allies, despite the religious differences.
The book covers all of this in such detail, sadly, all the nuances and backstory of these characters will not be shown because it would take too long. If you have not read the book, I strongly urge all interested in this truly remarkable tale to buy it and read it. The show doesn’t take away from reading it after viewing. Such much backstory to these characters
Yeah there is plenty more depth to the book, for sure. That's just how it goes. But I'd definitely recommend reading the book, and for the true history, Sengoku Jidai by Danny Chaplin is a great starting point.@@horacebond9394
This show is an absolute masterpiece
So glad Blackthorne wasn't gender swapped in a "daring" re-imagining of the story.
I was hoping for no woke indications, and so far, i am pleased to say the least.@@catsupchutney
First movie you watched?
@@StevenLeeStudiosThe directors and producers said they want this show to be as authentic as possible, both to the book and Japanese history.
ya dont say???@@T-h-a-t_G-u-y
I love this scene with hows its shot with the diffrent angles when toranaga and blackthorne are talking and with the diffrent language it makes it look like they are in a world of their own with no else but them. Beautifullly shot🤩
4:40 I think this is appreciated by Toranaga. Gives him a hint that Blackthorne may be a trustful and predictable man, since he is openly recognizing that they would become enemies in such a case without hesitation. Blackthorne is not threatening him, but being completely honest, and that is the virtue Toranaga is testing by asking such a question. He also knows that the response from a Portuguese lad to the same question would be completely different by this point, since they have something to loose.
This show is so good, and has reignited my interest in Japanese history.
🇵🇹🏴
@@MusicismoreImportant happy freedom day my portuguese brotha
The translator in this scene is probably the best part of this entire episode. Code switching on the dime like that is something difficult to do. Even between Germanic languages. Imagine trying to code switch like that between two languages that are completely and utterly alien to each other.
The editing of them talking back and forth like they’re having a conversation despite the language barrier was absolutely genius.
This 5 mins can be 45 mins lecture in film making school.
Every frame, every single word and the color.
Emmys, oscars globe what ever give them all the awards
Cosmo Jarvis is wonderfull in this role . Everything in this show is so good , I can't wait to watch the next episode of Shōgun ⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️⚔️ .
I have to disagree. No disrespect, he is playing it well. It is just, when you saw the first movie with Richard Chamberlain, read the book and expect a roughneck as captain and see instead a babyface....it is disappointing. Sounds mean, but he is just the wrong chap for this particular job
@@paulhoffmann4521 I much prefer Cosmo Jarvis so far to Richard Chamberlain's portrayal of Blackthorne. I believe Jarvis' portrayal is hampered by the changes in how scenes are being portrayed: Focusing on the 'purity of women' rather than drunkenly dancing and pissing off the guards, or failing to point at the Priest and shout "TEKI!" and so on, are stylistic choices that neuter the possibilities Cosmo Jarvis has to really demonstrate Blackthorne's character.
@@paulhoffmann4521 Yeah, I feel the same way. But I grew up with the Shogun from the 1980s and Chamberlain's portrayal. I will say this - with each viewing I find it easier and easier to accept Jarvis in the role. I do like this remake.
@@Shamino1 He does everything right. It is just the looks that - in my opinion - don't match the character of John Blackthorne. He just looks too soft, like a schoolboy, for that role
Well, real sailors werent like Chamberlain - softspoken and clean looking. Jarvis is more fitting in historical context.
The attention to detail in all areas especially in the ancient Japanese language is incredible, it looks and feels so true and real, very well made series, got me hooked
Blackthorn and Lord Toronaga play chess while the others play checkers
The scene plays out almost like a game of chess. The floor is square panels, you have the lord at the end of the room/board as the king, his daughter who speaks both languages/moves any direction as the queen, and his soldiers on the edges like rooks. The priest enters the room and moves like a knight. Blackthorn always moves straight ahead like a pawn, which normally would die early on, but every now and then you get the pawn that makes it to the other side and becomes a named piece, like when he’s named hatamoto in episode 3
@@sgttoasterface5282 Mariko is not Toronaga's daughter. She's a weapon.
Toranaga is playing chest with blackthorn as one of his pieces be real
Toranaga looks more like a Shogi player to me.
The Jesuits were master chess players, when it came to statecraft and politics.
This show is absolutely fantastic.
For me, this was the best scene from the series so far. Absolutely loved it!
good job fx posting scenes that would be reposted anyway, promote your awesome show
This is a fantastic scene, and one of my favourite from the book. I'm particularly impressed as the book gives the inner monologue of several of the characters here as they scramble to find any advantages in the conversation, the actors have done an incredible job of conveying small emotions to us the audience, while still acting so carefully guarded and poker-faced as they do in the book.
So far, this series is GREAT.
The birth of a legendary friendship if you never read the book or watched the original mini series do so they are amazing . As is this version
its rare i watch a period drama getting me to watch 1 with sub titles is like squeezing blood from a stone but god dam you got me
You spoiled Americans, you.
they have pretty good English voiceover if you're interested, though I prefer subtitles
@maaz322thank I know thanks. this is prob one of the very rare times I'd rather have the subs. The authenticity would be ruined with dubs.
I've lived in Japan for decades and speak the (modern-day) language fluently; my business Japanese only started improving as my career changed over the past 10 years or so. I can't imagine mastering the formalities required to speak in the presence of ancient Japanese royalty, and yet, someone back then did! It's nice to see linguistic and cultural aspects of this bygone era being given such care even in a series that is, ultimately, a piece of streaming blockbuster entertainment. Looking forward to watching this with my wife, who like me is quite a fan of Sanada-san. Hope he finally gets his due Stateside after all these years.
I love how the "conversation" is portrayed.
This whole sequence was just so good
ショーグン見てから知ったがブラックソーンかっこええわ
I've been trying to learn Japanese for the last few months and this show is helping a LOT more than I thought it would. The constant exposure and the different dialects and ways of speaking is awesome!
As a Portuguese person, I congratulate the film's technical team, they did a good job of researching the Portuguese historical personality.
Why are you so happy they are trying hard to denigrate the portuguese catholic by distorting history here
Despite being a work of literature, the author James Clavell, probably out of envy at the success of the Portuguese in their relationship with the Japanese, tried to denigrate the image of the Portuguese, to promote his book. unfortunately this type of behavior is normal in Anglo-Saxon culture.
@@alexandrefernandes7444 There's literally nothing to be envious of Portugal lol. He obviously researched William Adams and found a very interesting story to tell. Adams was English and the Catholics were the enemies of England. It's not hard to understand.
@@AFGuidesHDPortugal quite literally opened the doors for colonial expansion, there is a lot to envy, just like Spain or Britain were great Portugal was great aswell
@@valeriodelaurentiis5614oh careful, praising Colonialism in today's political correct/ woke world might get you lot of hatred 😅😅.
Frederik CRYNS
Born in Belgium, he became interested in Japanese history after watching "Shogun" as a child.
He entrusted with the overall historical research for remake of "Shogun ".
1993 Licenciaat, KU Leuven
2000 M.A, Kyoto University
2003 Ph.D., Kyoto University
2022 Professor, Deputy Director-General, International Research Center for Japanese Studies
p.s.
He said the job was deeply moving.
I think he is the best person for the work because with his Western sensibilities and deep knowledge of Japanese history, he can tell both the U.S. and Japan exactly accurate picture of the samurai period.
best show on TV, the best show of the decade...
Something subtle that I just picked up on was the Priest says their countries are in conflict but Toranaga says war. Can mean a lot of different things but the camera panning to where it is only facing Toranaga tells me that that was the moment he realizes Blackthorne can be useful and only Toranaga was able to sense that in the room. Great way to fully contrast Toranaga from Ishido and Yabushige.
I recently watched again, the Shogun of Richard Chamberlain and after many years, enjoyed it all over again. This though looks like being a very good take on the story. I look forward to being able to watch and enjoy it.
Interesting that Toranaga had Mariko here for this meeting when he didn't in the book.
In the book Toranaga trusted Alvito completely and Alvito justified that by translating accurately even without a second interpreter present to check his translation. He communicated a lot of Blackthorne's statements that were damaging to the Portuguese, apparently just out of personal integrity and the certainty that Blackthorne would doom himself even without any manipulation from him (although he might also have known that Toranaga was discerning enough that he might notice signs of Alvito being dishonest even if he couldn't understand the words).
Here, his consternation on seeing Mariko suggests he was hoping to weigh things against Blackthorne, (though, to give him the benefit of the doubt, he might have just been worried by the sign that Toranaga didn't completely trust him.)
I've watched Shogun with Richard Chamberlain, legend Toshiro Mifune and Yoko Shimada at the age of 11...i instantly disliked Father Alvito into #1 place into the original series..there was something sneaky, fishy from that character, i couldn't stand.
^ 100% agree. I knew as soon as he appeared on my screen that he was going to be a sneaky little rat. Glad Mirako-sama was here to make sure he couldn’t mistranslate Blackthorne’s words.
@@bradleye660 The irony is, of course, that he turns out to be one of the most straightforward and honest character in the show. Albeit one stuck between a rock and a hard place.
FX truly making a name for themselves with quality productions like this or reservation dogs. Thinking outside the box and letting people do their best. Kudos from Germany!
One of the dopest shows i ever scene ✨ So beautiful, well written, interesting culture and a fresh vision outside the box of common bs tv.. Thank you for making this ✊🥷
just that small smile by hiroyuki at the end there. Brilliant
Excellent performances here all around.
Wow. Amazing scene.
wow... such an amazing performance by all actors
As a person who lives in Japan and studies history academically for job, the show did it better than the book. I know people will come at me for diss the OG, because people just blindly protect the OG. The fact that this series dealt with the westerncentric nuances in the book and made it more critical is what makes this show great.
For the people in love with Japanese culture, this series is flawless.
I think it is good they chose the story of William Adams.
like enjoyed the FRAMING of the shots...getting closer and closer und closer to the face of the speaker....wunderbar...
i love his voice
What an amazing scene
This scene gives you goosebumps.
This show seems phenomenal
Okay, I've seen 2 preview videos of this series and it is goddamn good. I can't wait to actually watch it in full. O_O
I remember the 80s miniseries, such a well made show despite feeling dated. glad this series caries that same energy
Wasn't really planning on watching this show... This scene gave me enough chills to make me reconsider.
Amazing show I must say! I’m hooked
This series better win some Emmys.
This show is an absolute masterpiece ❤.
This series is a masterpiece
Great scene.
Dang, that's good drama... I need to start watching this.
As someone who is old enough to remember the book and the original this right here is outstanding so far!
Amazing show and director. Jarvis was the perfect casting
This has convinced me to watch this show. Wasn’t sold on it before, but this was interesting
This show is soo good.
Now thats a great show.
The most visually striking difference between the old 80's series with this new one is that dark foggy cloudy Japan which reminds me more England. I enjoyed very much the sunny external scenes of the 80's version, which were actually shot in Japan.
I bc I am older that I can understand why this is my favorite show but I still remember my very fun Saturday morning's with my dad ❤😂
I’m enjoying it immensely.
The influence of the Catholic Church upon the world throughout history should not be ignored, almost every culture throughout history have at least interacted with one of their priest.
I want to watch this series again but watch specifically for all the moments Toranaga gives his tiny little smirk. I didn't notice he was doing it until the end, or maybe even after.
This show is GOOOOOOOOD.
I love the original one in 1980 with Richard Chamberlain
I have so got to watch this....
Reminds me a lot of Last of the Mohicans, I love how they do not sweep translation under the rug. Loving this show so far.
Intriguing
This scene is important because it tells how the ancient Portuguese related to other cultures. They invested in young people, not devaluing their importance for the future local society, and they had the trust of the Japanese elites, without deviating from the truth and maintaining honesty during the translation, as you can see.
To my knowledge England and Portugal have never been at war. Treaty of Windsor
@@allyup3404 they were under Spanish crown during this time. which was at war with England so yes they have.
@@MrThhg Correct. Portugal wouldn't get its independence from Spain until I think 50-60 years after the show, and having Blackthorne as a privateer from Holland also is VERY accurate given how much damage the Dutch dealt to portugal's empire in southeast asia, which was the catalyst for Portugal declaring independence from spain later on.
This historical drama looks epic..
Toranaga was impressed by his show of deference without losing face. Not many people could learn to navigate the intricacies of Japanese court manners so quickly
ALRIGHT. I'm gonna pay for Disney + and watch this thing. It looks incredible from the numerous clips recommended to me.
Do so. I've read the novel and have the original series on Blu-Ray. The production values and performances in this are superb.
Interesting...Shogun film of 1980 with Richard Chamberlain and Toshiro Mifune was a great one..and this 2024 version seems to be good..👍👍
Portugal and England have never been at war with one another. They have the longest standing alliance
You beat me too it. The treaty of Windsor was signed in 1382 and is the longest in history
Someone mentioned that the conflict is likely the 80 year war, which saw Portugal and England at war as opposing allies to other nations, with Portugal being in the Iberian Union and therefore basically Spain in terms of foreign policy.
At the time , 1600, Portugal was a vassal of Spain (1580-1640) having been conquered by Phillip II (he of the Armada) who crowned himself Philip I of Portugal.
Someone really wants me to watch this... clips are all over.
The way that it removes the translators from the scene entirely is so fascinating because that - that's the job of a good translator, to make themselves effectively invisible.
What a beautifully made Show, showing a small part the Japanese culture in all its glory
WOW.
Absolute respect to the cultures of the era.
I'll have to watch this. As a kid I saw bits, and pieces of the original, but never read the book. One of my favorite mangas is Lone Wolf and Cub. It's about the Shogun's official executioner who is betrayed to appear to be a traitor. Instead of committing ritual suicide he becomes a ronin, a masterless samurai. He travels through Japan with his young son plotting revenge against the clan that betrayed him, and killed his wife.
This scene, apart from being brilliant in the authenticity of the ancient Japanese language and the arguments, portrays the deep conflict between the Protestants and the Catholics in Europe (and beyond).At that time we were really talking about "religious wars", much different from todays wars in general. It was a full scale war in the name of God to obliterate your enemies.
At the last moment, Toranaga holds a smirk, knowing he can actually utilise whatever this Anjin has to offer.
One wrong sentence can cost you your head 😳
04:50 why is he bowing down here? Out of respect? And why does Toranaga seem to be smiling? Because he's showing him respect, or showing him how loyal he is to his god and that he would commend himself to god if Toranaga would see him as an enemy?
He bows in capitulation. He understands that he is in a foreign country with no friends and that his religious enemies are his only means of communicating. He's prostrating himself before the Lord to demonstrate that he understands he is fully at the mercy of Toranaga and his Japanese hosts. Toranaga smiles because although he is a total stranger to Japanese rules, etiquette, and courtly customs, his bow of capitulation is in line with courtly behaviors and is a sign of his integration into the power-dynamics of Japanese society.
@@Shamino1That was extremely well said. Thanks!
@@Shamino1 Yes, well said, but Toronaga smiling is a nod to Blackthorne's wiley intelligence.
@@weffyj6427 Which is inferred through the language I utilized in my description. But yes, I appreciate you spelling it out more clearly for the grade-school readers.
He is bowing out of respect, and to some degree, to accentuate the fact that he is speaking the truth. Moreover, by bowing such that his head touches the floor, he is recognizing (and accepting) the "great" difference in position. Prior to the Meiji Restoration of the Emperor in 1868 (basically reestablishing government by the Emperor away from the Samurai Class), commoners were required to prostrate themselves on the ground (including the head and not looking up at anyone) whenever a Samurai Lord's procession passed. It should be noted that the Samurai class was not at the very top of Japanese society. The true royals in Japan were an extremely minute number by birth, and constituted what many refer to as the Noble Class that included the Emperor. The Samurai were the warrior class below the nobles, and were expected to show due deference to them. (Note: Using the English tern "noble" for accuracy sake, should not be used for those from the Samurai Class. The Samurai were warriors, not Royals.).
Hence, Toranaga is apparently smiling because Blackthorn is paying him due respect, in the same manner as any other Japanese warrior or citizen of lower rank.
Blackthorne: There are two Christian Religions, Protestant and Catholic.
Eastern Orthodox Church: Ummm we were here before you Mr. Protestant.
Orthodox Christianity was Eastern European, and there are no Eastern Europeans on this show.
centuries later, they will learn about the religion of the roshia-jin
This show is amazing
The book is in my top 20 reads although I enjoyed Clavells Nobel House more, this may be an interesting watch.
Filming of this tv movie was not filmed in Japan but abroad?
Canada i think
Mostly Vancouver yes
Some was shot in New Zealand where they could recreate old Japan that doesn’t exist in modern Osaka.
The original 1980 series was filmed entirely in Japan. They built the village of Anjiro and ships for filming. Both shows are excellent
To any history fans in the comment, I just want to ask. Were the tensions between catholics and protestants were really this bad? I understand why the priest would act this way, but would Blackthorne be really this negative to the priest even though they're both in a completely different land? I don't know much about pre 1700, so that's why I'm asking
yes it was this bad, the catholics saw the protestants as heretics and therefore an ofront to god, the protestants saw the catholics as greedy, liars, who hoard the wealth of innocents.
This was the time before the 30 years war, the peal of the internal Christian conflict and there had been wars over faith by this point so yes.
Us Christians until relatively recently did not have friendly relations with Christians that had different beliefs and practices.
History fan 🙋🏽♀️, I’m not sure about the pre 1700s per say, sorry, but I do know that King Henry the eighth, one of his kids, his eldest daughter, was Catholic, she was overlooked in favor of the King’s son and when she tried to fight the son, the fact that she was not of the same denomination as the country was a huge source of contention across England.
And years later, under the reign of King Elizabeth II, Britain was Protestant while Ireland was Catholic and it was a problem when Britain tried to claim Ireland as a territory that is still an issue today. It caused Ireland to separate into Northern Ireland which is a British territory and the Republic of Ireland which is a country separate of British rule.
So I could see how back then in the 1700s the tension could be that bad.
Yup, this is the time of the Thirty Year War where Catholics and Protestants were massacring each other. The war was actually one of the most destructive time periods in Euope comparable to the scale of WW1 and WW2. Blackthorn grew up in that environment and genuinely thought the Catholics were 17th century Nazis.
There were multiple wars between the two faiths for almost 300 years, culminating in the brutal 30 years war. But on a personal level for Blackthorne the show is roughly set about 10 years after the Spanish Armada, where Spain tried to invade England and depose the protestant Queen and replace her with a catholic. So he'd be very wary of a Spanish ally.
I mean….a letter of marque was usually just a legal license to be a privateer which is just a pirate under the employ of a government