The issue is with some warranties, such as the VW warranty, is that it’s 70% capacity in 8 years or 100,000 miles. However if the battery is faulty with some bad cells and drops 28% in the first year and stays at this level it’s still considered ok so not replaceable under warranty. These warranties need to be more flexible and have a maximum % capacity drop per year that is clear and easily understood. So 95% available capacity after one year or 20,000 miles, 90% after two years or 40,000 miles, 85% after three years or 60,000 miles and so on reducing to the 70% figure at 8 years or 100,000 miles. These are still relatively poor performance requirements but would provide a degree in confidence in EV battery reliability.
There is a Tesla study that results in an average of 12% capacity loss after 200k. Cars in the UK on average are 14 years or 140k when they are scrapped. They are usually mechanically written off with combinations of ICE associated issues. BEV's will increase the average age of cars on the road.
We've run two EVs to around 100,000 miles, both are first generation cars, one Nissan, and one Renault. In both cases they have rudimentary battery technology and thermal management, both vehicles retained around 90% of their original battery capacity. Newer cars will fair better.
Owners' data suggests that mileage is not the main factor, but time is. It doesn't matter if you drive 5000 miles a year, or 50,000 miles a year, they still degrade roughly the same over time. Manufacturers know this, that's why they offer 8 years warranty, so the main question is how do these batteries fare on the years after?
She didn’t actually say that, just that the average lifespan of ICE cars was 13 years before getting scrapped. It may have nothing to do with the engine, could be the gearbox or bodywork damage, anything that costs more to repair or replace than the car is worth. Obviously some ICE cars go on for significantly longer but that’s why it’s an average lifespan.
Exactly…. All my ICE cars 25 years about… have good engine! But they have rusted, other mechanical problems… over 15000€ / year repair expenses that led to buy new 15 years old car… so yeah…i agree. 13000 miles sounds very plausible! Most of my cars has ended ITS life span between 200000km and 250000km it is about 125000 miles to 155000 miles.
In 2009 average car was scrapped after only 13 years. So approx 130k. In 2021 it's scrapped after 16 years. So approx 160k. I run two ICE cars and maintain both myself. One is 13 years old & 110k. The other is 20 years old & 186k. I'm looking forward to replacing them both with 1 EV's so I don't have to spend weekends fixing them!
@@tariqphotoI used to have a 2.5 V6 TDI A6 Avant. I bought it cheap with 215k on the clock. When I checked the history it had been clocked at 270k down to 150k, so my 215k A6 had actually covered 335k! Ran surprisingly well and still got 55mpg out of it!
modern EVs still don't display their battery health in a simple percentage (like iPhones do). and for the concept of 'designed to last the lifetime of the car'... I wasn't born yesterday
The battery failed in My brother's 2015 Tesla model S after 260,000 miles but the battery still had 6 weeks warranty left on it and Tesla replaced it with an updated battery, during the life of the old battery it only lost 10% in range .
Poor guy lucky with his battery but to live in your Car to that mileage 😂I’m doing something wrong my Car factory ordered and ten years old in April will be on 35k miles. 😂 ok two years were lost to Covid and well we couldn’t use our Cars for a month for that fuel strike where no petrol was for sale. Friend bought a second hand Porsche a classic it had lost a quite a bit of power over the years just with wear. He put it on a rolling road and got a shock. I just think of EV batteries likewise everything degrades in Cars unless at some point you spend a fortune doing a complete nut and bolt restoration.
I feel there should be a industry wide simple to read table or graphic to let the public know the condition of the Battery like a ICE car service history and MOT
Does an IC car service history tell you if the car has only done short journeys, i.e. never warmed up or cleared the DPF filter, has the car been held on the clutch on hills, has it been driven hard when it's cold.
You can check those things quickly and easily by dipping the oil and carrying out a compression test. Likewise, it’s very easy to tell if a clutch is worn. Even if it is, it’s hardly a major expense to replace it.
@@ochayethegnu2915 And you can check the battery of an EV easily with a module tester - 20 seconds. Everyone that buys a second hand car should do this, or get someone to do it for you, just like opening up the oil cap on an ICE car and looking for mayonnaise . The only issue is that people are luddites and terrified of technology - just educate yourselves. Remember, 80% of people after 100 years have no idea how to tell if an ICE car is trashed, that will never change with EV cars either.
Very well summarized ... so many people don't get that if the battery gets weaker after 8 or 10 years, unable to process max. current peaks like needed in an EV, the battery will still be a perfect storage element for a household or a tiny piece of a bigger energy cluster for solar or wind power. So after some 20 years they will be recycled up to 98% I believe I have read, because the lithium doesn't go bad, it just reshapes itself over time but stays inside the cell and can be reused for a new cell. So the environmental impact is magnitudes lower than most people think and we hope battery reseach will present batteries with even more power and less weight and volume that will give EVs as much range as the old combustion cars as well as faster charging speeds. This year CATL will implement a battery that is supposed to be way better in that regard and we will see the real-life result of that very soon. I am sure BYD and others have not been sleeping either and there is a great future to come.
The risk for second hand car buyers is how they can sell the car later down the line. There’s not much risk buying a 3 year old EV, but if you want to sell it a few years later you’ll be reaching the end of the warranty, and then who will buy it? You’ll be unlikely to sell it for much more than the resale value of the battery at that point, so potentially quite a big depreciation hit compared to ICE equivalents.
Its post warranty costs thats the issue , not mileage /usage as in the examples mentioned in the comments. Tesla model S 2 weeks out of warranty and less than 100k £18,000 to replace You could buy a battery on E-bay @14k but it still needs fitting etc...
It's obvious that you're going to say, _"There's nothing to worry about when buying a used EV regarding battery wear."_ *_It's like VW saying that their cars had good emissions._* *If you didn't, it'd be like turkeys voting for Christmas.*
Comparing the battery of an EV with the engine of an ICE car I think is wrong. The battery is the 'fuel' for the EV. The equivalent in a petrol or diesel car is the fuel tank. Both have to be charged/filled when empty. I think the motor of the EV should be compared with the motor of the ICE car.
The engine and gearbox are the most expensive parts of an ICE car. The battery is the most expensive part of an electric car. The electric motor is extremely unlikely to fail (and relatively cheap). A fuel tank is fairly cheap. Major failures of engines or gearboxes that require replacing do happen as do the batteries on electric vehicles so it seems a fair comparison given the difference in technology. The engine and gearbox both failing is a bit of a stretch though.
Hiya, nice presentation, very upbeat and no obvious product placement apart from "Spoticar." Are they a sponsor? You compared a battery to an engine and drivetrain. It obviously should be compared to a fuel tank in an ICE vehicle. The electric motor and gearing in an EV should be compared to an engine and drivetrain in an ICE vehicle. As servicing an EV being cheaper. The batteries are the easiest things to check. Brakes, suspension, and tyres still have to be checked. EVs also have many more hitech components to go wrong, which are harder to diagnose and replace because they are proprietary, and the spare parts supply chain is virtually non-existent for them in this country.
I've nothing against the EV. BUT I'VE NEVER HEARD SUCH BIASED INFORMATION. Cost of replacing a battery at 100,000 miles is equivalent to a diesel that will cover 200,000 miles with ease 😂. Had a Toyota Prius, at 80,000 miles battery was knackered, you couldn't get a new one, so had to drive everywhere with a petrol engine. AT LEAST GIVE BOTH SIDES OF THE ARGUMENT SO YOU DONT LOOK QUITE SO 🤪
You've just summed up one of the issues with hybrids the batteries are charged and fully discharged far more often than a dedicated EV battery as the EV battery is much larger so has an easier life. A Prius has typically a 4.4 kwh battery powering a 60kw motor, so in battery terms the max load is 13.5c, the Mini SE which has a small battery of 30kwh and a 135 kw motor has a max load of 4.5c. The higher the battery loading the more internal heat that is generated and that damages the batteries.
But, she didn't say that an EV's battery would need replacing at 100,000 miles... In fact, the figure quoted for the life of a well-looked after battery was 300,000 miles (at 01:38 minutes in to the video)
You mentioned using the range meter & battery level to check battery health, I am not sure that really works. I thought the "range" gets calculated based on previous use, so it will not work accuately?
I'm a huge EV advocate, but I've no idea where they got the 5% degradation after 100,000 miles from?? Just not true. It's more like 10-15% on average after 100,000 miles.
Agreed on this point. I too am big on the EV bandwagon, but I don't really like seeing claims without references or links to the data that produced them. After all, 74% of all statistics are made up, everyone knows that 😂
You might want to watch one of Bjorn's videos on EV batteries. He had a Tesla taxi that was supercharged a lot and it lost 16% after 245 charges and 98k kilometres. There needs to be a huge infrastructure that will repair your battery just like garages currently repair ICE cars. It's just not there yet.
I think “buyer beware” of buying a used electric car that was a taxi with a high mileage in a short space of time. Same as a conventional used car with super high mileage in just a year or two.
@@asjames7711 interestingly, though, on the Leaf group I'm a member of, there are numerous 100,000+ mile Gen 1 Leaf examples which have really excellent battery State of Health percentages despite having been rapid charged, sometimes, multiple times daily. Then there are others which have been largely AC charged, with surprisingly low SoH % with only 30-40,000 miles... 🤷♂
Great overview. Maybe i'll add that batteries can be fixed, specialist shops can repair them at cell level (tesla is said to be the easiest to repair) for a lot cheaper. Also, warranty for the battery is usually valid if battery is under 70% of capacity.
There are newer car batteries like sodium ion, Al air batteries which are way far cheaper and manufactured with easily available materials and easily recyclable BUT ARE INTENTIONALLY DELAYED TO BE MANUFACTURED BY VESTED CROOKED INTERESTS to the consumers.
I always enjoy your little tech talks.. 🙂 No one should shy away from buying a used electric. There is no difference in the protocol. You want a lower mileage vehicle, you'll need to pay for it. You're not going to find anything decent if you're not willing to pay for it. I was fortunate enough to find my 2yr old Model 3 standard range in August last year. Only had 59,995k Km's on it. Practically new all things considered. For a good chunk off the original price. Buying a new Tesla around here will still set you back 58g's. Before taxes. Even with the government credit, you're still looking at spending 63-64g's once you put aside all the fees and taxes and what not. I found my 2021 Model 3 for literally half that. That's a fair chunk saved. I'm hoping I'll be set for the foreseeable future. Absolute joy to drive. I understand why there are so many on the road. 🙂
@@tomcockcroft9394 ok. Which converted to my currency, is a little more than what we would pay for here. Still looking at 60G's+ for a new standard range Model 3. If you're patient enough and able to pounce when you see a good deal on a well kept 2nd hand Model 3, you can get a cracking deal.
I was pleased to find this video after looking for recently this information today. However im not sure why your presenter has gone for such a sarcastic approach to the answers. If over 60% of people have concerns with this issue, answering as though its a stupid question isn't really very helpful.
A faulty battery can often be just one bad cell. Battery makers should (by law) make batteies (cost effectively) repairable with replaceable modules. I know the tesla 4680 packs are not repairable.
Big fan of Nicola but... What hasn't been mentioned is that how the battery has been treated by the previous owner(s) will have a significant impact on the battery health. Frequent rapid charging shortens both capacity (so range) and battery life. Slow charging between 20 - 80% will theoretically prolong the battery life. I believe EV's will be a footnote in the automotive history. The s/h motortrade is not geared up for them and does not trust them. Even main dealers are shunning used evs because they have government set targets to sell new. Insurance companies don't like them either & are hiking policy prices. Result, massive price drops and very hard to shift used evs.
Most people drive older cars with higher mileages. My car is a 2012 model and still pretty much like new bar the odd minor blemish. There are plenty of mechanics able to service and ensure a long life for the oiiy bits. For EVs to be sustainable they need to have value way past the 8 year battery warranty and not just be something for people on high incomes to discard like a mobile phone every few years. At present if you are unlucky enough to have a battery pack issue there isn't an army of specialists who can refurbish it (the ideal solution because this means the car can have a long life which is most likely greener than scrapping it when relatively young). I'd only buy an EV with no battery warranty if it were very cheap and accept the associated risks on that basis unless sensible repair options were available. This suggests the very steep depreciation curve for EVs continuing and will put private buyers off.
If you are suggesting that people should change their car every two or three years then what sort of ecology is that. It's much "greener" to keep an ICE car running for many years.
How so? If you keep EV so long that you need to change battery… it is cheaper than keep ICE car the Same time. Not Evertonia change car every few years… and the longer you keep EV the more you save compare to ICE (even if you buy the new battery is meanwhile)… But you need at least 15000km / year and home charging option. And this is based on prices in Finland so it may vary depending on where you live!)
I have been watching the transport select committee meeting on the 15th May 2024. This committee meeting was all about electric cars and the second hand car market as the second hand electric car market is stalling. It was found that the main reasons were that a great deal of second hand car dealers will not touch electric cars as they do not have the expertise in engineers and special equipment to service electric cars so they wouldn’t put electric cars on their forecourt for sale. Customers who were thinking of buying a second hand electric car were put off buying one due to the worry of the electric car battery condition as there is no UK standard to check these second hand electric car battery packs and the second reason the UK charging infrastructure. If you’re interested please go to parliament live tv to view this committee meeting held on the 15th May 2024.
Hello I would love to own 1 but the price of getting 1 then you say it's similar to replacing an engine with gearbox yet we hear cases of battery replacement being more expensive than buying a similar ev then the cost insurance. Factor in unreasonable costs of charging away from home. Am confused 😕
Please note that the two incidents with Hyundai Ioniq 5 in Canada needing expensive replacement are unique to that car model and that country. There are millions of EVs on the road, and only those two customers had that experience. The manufacturer doesn't charge that much for the battery, but in those two incidents, third parties were able to fleece the customers and for some reason Hyundai chose to let it happen.
I love my EV but BS like this really get my back up. They cost more in the first place, they lose more and although I’m fortunate enough to be able to afford one, I feel for those that don’t earn enough to buy a new car, especially young drivers, where the cost of insurance has gone sky high. You won’t be able to buy a useable EV below 8k really as they will be worth more in parts or they won’t be useable. Where as you can still find a ICE car for 2k with plenty of life left in it.
Very clever video. And informative. Not sure that you've sold me on replacing a car battery by comparing it to replacing engine and gearbox on an ICE car.
The reality with this we will see in next 10 years. When I see EV driven over 600000 kilometers I am convinced. Also I saw a story that replacing batteries to Hyundai Ioniq costs more than a new car.
I have has 30 years old cars that don`t have more than 200000 km in and are so rustes and bad condition otherwise that they were forsed to put out of misery… old diesel Mercedes that were driven on non salted environment can get 600000km but those cars are rarity! Most cars and end of the line at 250000km all of my ICE cars have been so far. My current car is 8 years old. 90000 km in. Motor… not expecting it to last more than 25 to 30 years… so it will maybe get 300000 if i am really lucky!
All of these cars here are Stellantis models. Currently Stellantis models second-hand have devalued very highly.... and are proper bargains.... eg 2021 Citroën E-C4 approx £14,000. Saving you £20,000 over the new price!
One major problem with this video is that it comes from proponents of electric vehicles. If the message is to be promoted, it needs to be given by impartial and unbiased media channels. The public will trust somebody who goes into delivering a judgement with an open mind more than a channel that exists to sell the virtues of electric.
As the most environmentally conscious thing to do as a car owver is keep drive it for a good 10, 15 even 20yrs - I'm staggered to see such new used EVs getting resold. I would have thought the type of people who bought them cared about the environment and wouldn't be changing their cars so often. 🤔
Problem is all these second hand electric cars have been taken from fleet owned electric cars and generally they have been driven by company car drivers so all that company car drivers are interested in is getting front A to B in the quickest possible time. So most of these electric cars have been on large numbers of DC charging stations and as we all know by now this is the worst charging scenario for traction battery degradation. The other point to make is that these second hand electric cars were made in small batches from the manufacturers as the mass car market were not purchasing electric cars in high volume therefore the spare parts for these second hand electric cars will be difficult to obtain quickly, so think twice before purchasing!!
Nicola, you are always so clever and entertaining! Who knew that you were one of quadruplets? I can attest that the petrolganda against EV batteries is just fossil foolishness. After 6 years and 78,487 miles, my EV's battery still has 94.35% capacity.
My battery is fine in my 8 year old i3. However the inverter fried itself which is an €11k fix at BMW or around €8k at an independent. Can’t find any second hand so car is a write off. Battery is fine though but no one will touch an 8 year old battery.
The battery materials have substantial value, especially in the NMC types. Battery recyclers make a profit by recycling. The biggest issue they have is that not enough batteries have reached end of life yet because they last so long. So the recyclers make do with laptop and phone batteries and scrap from the manufacturing processes.
Automakers should be held legally responsible for not just the batteries but for the safe and reliable longevity of every vehicle they sell. Instead of externalising the costs and responsibilities on to vulnerable, second hand owners who waited years to own their first EV. This includes retrofitting emissions systems of cheating diesels.
The cost of replacing an EV's battery 'may not cost much more than the cost of replacing a conventional cars' engine and gearbox'? Err…no…it costs a LOT more… Besides, replacing an engine and gearbox isn't something that the vast majority of today's drivers ever need contemplate, let alone will ever need to do.
Let's revisit this topic in another 10 years. When manufacturer warranty expires. Because it is a bit concerning to think an electric car will only survive on the road for 8 years, it's not very realistic. I think the lifespan of an ICE car is about 25 years. It's the cost of ownership after the warranty that really matters to over 75 percent of the population that can't afford to buy a brand new car, or be the second or third owner. Young adults who desperately need a car to get about. Batteries in hybrid cars are causing a lot of mayhem in developing countries at the moment. In these regions they're imported used, without warranty. Some countries are putting limits on EVs to avoid similar dumping of worthless electric cars in the future. With governments banning importation of EVs with less than 80 percent battery life left.
Not convinced yet, I still think that it'd be more interesting to get an all inclusive lease, even private, for an electric car, changing model at the end of your lease. Never buying, always renting. I have a real psychological problem with those magic buying loans they craft for you, with allegedly low monthly fees, but with a hefty first deposit and/or a humongous last "month". In the end, these not-so-magic loans won't cover extra expenses like insurances, taxes, maintenance/check up fees,.. Like a full lease would. And the saddening fast devaluation of your now new "possession" , after or during your loan, it drives me mad just thinking about it. I'd be happy if someone proved me wrong with the proper maths. But I less and less wanna buy and own a car, especially an electric, and even less so, a used EV. I want a full package with the less worries and side expenses possible. And let them deal with the battery degradation. That especially, is certainly not out of my own pocket. But in the end, the real issue is the overall cost of an electric car, 45k euros entry ticket for a C segment car like the 308, is still 15k too much. Or 40k for a 208, which forces the GT version on you if you want a decent engine, is again a bad joke. Even a Byd Atto 3, supposedly cheaper, is around 38 to 40k in Belgium. The more I dissect the market to find the rare pearl, the bitter I get, honestly.
With stellantis cars (like all those featured parked in this video), it's the rest of the car you need to worry about and not the battery. ABS wiring looms, on-board chargers and air con compressors come to mind. Look for a car with a longer standard warranty and avoid stellantis. Mat Watson's press Jeep avenger had a braking fault, not great for a brand new car
Sorry but car manufacturers lifetime of car can be just warranty life which can be as little as a year... And even the best 7yr would require costly manufacturer inspections
I would agree that EV batteries are proving to be much better than expected, the problem is that most car manufacturers are still only offering 7 or 8 year battery warranties, half of the life of the car, manufacturers need to offer at least 15 year battery warranties to give people the confidence to buy a used EV..
Except if you're Hyundai, that if something on the road scratches the external protector of the battery, then they void your warranty and charge you the same than a new car to replace the battery (real story that happened in Canada with an Ioniq 5... twice!)
In this case, the Ioniq 5’s battery cover plate on the bottom of the car was scratched and showed a small deformation, which indicated the battery had suffered an impact.
@@dden7670The deformation was really tiny and the battery itself was fine. It's something that could happen to anyone. They should have checked if the battery was fine or not and replace the cover, maybe. If they void the warranty for that, I'm not buying Hyundai, for sure. You can if you want, of course.
@@dden7670In any case, it means you're liable for a battery that costs the same as the car. Would you buy a car that just for going through a road with some loose debris the car is totalled?
The reason im reluctant to buy a used EV, even a new one is actually not the battery or motor, its the other stuff like heatpump and onboard charger. They are quite expensive, and known to fail in models like Corsa, 208 etc.
Brilliant video Nicola. I loved the editing to introduce your many sister Nicolas. Great presentation as usual. Oddly I needed to replace my ICE car battery this week less than five years from new. But they are old school I guess, extra cost for a battery with start stop gubbins. Not cheap either.
It's not all rosy on the servicing front though. Some manufacturers/dealers "overcharge" EV's for the service and with some service intervals costing more than what some complex ICE cars would cost at the same mileage so please do your research... Hyundai is one of these with their 4 year 40,000 mile service which will set you back an eye soaring £500 plus depending on the dealership.
@@tomooo2637 Well, I suppose. With a few notable exceptions, most all EVs have more get-up-and-go than the bulk of average ICE vehicles out there. And I'll bet the tendency is to test out that EVs acceleration. Some battery chemistries suffer from repeated quick draw-downs. Not sure when buying a used ICE Toyota Camry for instance, a person wonders how often the previous owner tried to bury the needle on that bad boy. So no, imo, on average, NOT just like an ICE vehicle.
A slowly decreasing range fuel tank is something a fixed battery EV purchaser or lessor will have to get used to, why not just say that instead of stating embellished statements. NIO offers the best products on the market for dealing with battery replacements, battery repairs, battery degradation and recycling with minimal anxiety. Sometimes you need to pull your finger out and go away from trends and follow brilliant design. Go NIO!
so the only electric car i can afford is a 2010 nissan leaf and i commute 100 miles a day on mostly motorway. i should be ok with that car since you tell me not to worry about the battery ?
The estimated range by miles on the dumb o meter is an awful way to judge the battery health. They base the miles estimate on prior driving history. Highway vs city or aggressive vs slow n easy driving. The only way to check the battery health is to have it professionally checked by the manufacturer or by a trained shop on EVs. As long as it is under warranty your pretty safe.
As someone who's in the motor industry I call bullshit to your "facts" , engines also last the life of a vehicle, when they're scrapped they're recycled and can easily be disposed of, electric cars and their batteries cannot; they're incredibly difficult and hazardous to recycle! Not to mention car batteries degrade a shit load over time especially with the cold weather we have in the UK and how much you have it charged etc. so many Sub 10 year old E golfs / Leafs / Zoe's we see that only have maximum of 90 miles of range well below what they had from new.... I'm sorry but I call bullshit! And just wait till that battery pack fails or catches fire, a real deadly and unfortunately way too normal issue in electric cars, the expense is astronomical, they wear brakes/tyres/wheel bearing/suspension etc. out way more than ice vehicles and I can assure you it won't be covered under warranty! Like myself and loads of other people working in the motor industry we will not be buying electric cars anytime soon! I like your channels vids I like the information and car reviews but this is just cap.
Veolia and Recyclus have dedicated EV battery recycling facilities in the UK. Yes, in the same way that petrol / diesel engines don't like the cold and so use more fuel than in summer, batteries don't perform as well in colder climates - but the newer EVs now have active thermal management and battery pre-conditioning which allows the pack to work at its most efficient temperature. Norway is WAY colder than the UK, yet EVs made up 87% of new car sales last year alone. The Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency report from 2022 proves that EVs are 20 times less likely to catch fire compared to ICE vehicles. Why would a 2 ton EV wear out its brakes/tyres/wheel bearing/suspension etc any more than a 2 ton diesel SUV, of which there are many sold in the UK? That seems illogical.
With one pedal driving, the brakes barely get used. Of course petrol is clearly not a fire hazard is it? The ICE scare-mongering is laughable & embarrassing. My 9 yr old diesel has broken down twice in recent months (once on the motorway) at a combined cost of £1000. Going electric.
lets put it this way you won`t be seeing any classic EVs in 40yrs time, and just like solar panels what happens with the batteries when there no good can they be recycled ? or are we going to landfill them like used solar panels ?.
The concern is actually that the EV battery of a second-hand EV may be unnoticeably traumatised. There is no way of telling that something is not right with a battery for a long time. That may just be the second-hand EV you are buying. No diagnostics can show where there may be a fault, a bump, a weakness or any blemish within those rowa and rows of battery cells. This person may have forgotten to mention this. The best thing to do is to just take a chance and buy your very own second-hand EV. Nice one.
This video is the biggest bunch of 'ev love bs' ever. Completely ignores or dances around the bad parts and only promotes the good points. First of all the video is titled to talk about used evs, yet you talk about new ev batteries. And when you do talk about used evs, you say you only need care if your in a older car with larger milage, aka the used car market. Or do you not car about cars that are older than 8 years or more than 100,000 miles?! because every car i have ever bought has been older that 10 years. Second, you keep saying 'life of the car' but that only means life that the manufacture cares about. aka the warranty period. Beyond that, the car is past its considered 'life'. Plus ICE cars are always quoted as a life of 1 million km, but achieve 1/3 of that at best majority of the time. so a life of 300,000 miles for an ev does not bode well for evs lasting as long as ice cars. And third, while degradation varies, many have reported higer deg than 5% every 100k miles. Plus so, so many people who have had battery failure have shown that once a car reaches 70% the capacity, it starts falls off a cliff. so 70% is basically end of usable life for a ev battery. And finally, all that about the batteries being recyclable is nice, but that does not matter when the replacement cost it so high. it just doesn't matter what happens to it. also an ice engine is also recycled. Plus a battery replacement is absolutely not the same or similar price as an ice engine being replaced in price (battery is $15-30k, ice engine is $6-10k, with a brand new, not refirbished used adding an extra $5k). plus you said engine & gearbox, are you also saying a bettery & drive motor needs to be replaced at the same time, or do you like to compare things that are different just to make a point
Great vlog, but ahhhh 4 Nicola’s, 1 is more than enough, but 4 my head is done in. What’s next 6 Ginny’s. Well at least she was measuring the boot again. ❤️ ❤️ 🥰 love you really Nicola 😬😬
A lot will change as technology evolves and new manufacturers com China make it to W European markets. I would not want to spend a load of money in 2024 buying a car with a battery that will be much smaller or noticeably slower to charge than the models on sale in 2026. The bottom will fall out of the used EV market before I can commit.
Interesting video but I can't help but feel the message is going to those of us who already understand how good battery life is. I like fun videos but on this one the gimmicky photography was distracting ... sorry Nicola you are great ... but one of you is enough.
My 21-year-old Mazda Miata continues to run without any range degradation. I expect to run it for another 10 years without any further degradation as well. Also, claiming that EV batteries are being recycled is disingenuous and repurposing a modern EV battery is next to impossible.
Veolia and Recyclus have dedicated EV battery recycling plants in the UK. And Second Life EV Batteries in Dorset repurpose 'old' EV batteries in to home storage battery packs.
Good try, but second hand cars near end of life, will be like playing pass the parcel. Someone cops the expense of either scrapping it and accepting that they've lost their money (and car) or replacing the battery at a extortionate cost. As most cars of a certain vintage will be driven as first cars by young new drivers, who won't be able to afford to spend a 'fortune' to replace a battery, they'll probably be avoided which will also destroy the desirability of owning a 'old' EV because of that risk, which in turn destroys the resale value of the EV, as the market disappears. Of course things can change in time and replacement batteries could become cheap and easily interchangeable and we might get a technological leap forward to extend, prolong and maintain battery life, but that's unlikely to impact the cars on sale today!
You kinda said it yourself - things can change in time... There are already companies springing up that can replace the individual cells in a pack, rather than replace the entire pack itself - that brings the costs down significantly.
What was the point of mentioning that the battery is valuable? Is there any way to benefit from this? Youd think that if it wad valuable then you could sell the old and put the money toward a new one... but you then reaffirmed that the new battery was "currently still very expensive".
Smart--put the most expensive item 10 inches from the road and protected by a thin sheet of metal---then specify in the warranty that road hazards are not covered. A few stories lately are coming to light on manufacturers with packs that have that stupid paste so you cant easily replace individual cells----of course, this comment will get smoked by the fanboys
The issue is with some warranties, such as the VW warranty, is that it’s 70% capacity in 8 years or 100,000 miles. However if the battery is faulty with some bad cells and drops 28% in the first year and stays at this level it’s still considered ok so not replaceable under warranty. These warranties need to be more flexible and have a maximum % capacity drop per year that is clear and easily understood. So 95% available capacity after one year or 20,000 miles, 90% after two years or 40,000 miles, 85% after three years or 60,000 miles and so on reducing to the 70% figure at 8 years or 100,000 miles. These are still relatively poor performance requirements but would provide a degree in confidence in EV battery reliability.
There is a Tesla study that results in an average of 12% capacity loss after 200k.
Cars in the UK on average are 14 years or 140k when they are scrapped. They are usually mechanically written off with combinations of ICE associated issues. BEV's will increase the average age of cars on the road.
We've run two EVs to around 100,000 miles, both are first generation cars, one Nissan, and one Renault. In both cases they have rudimentary battery technology and thermal management, both vehicles retained around 90% of their original battery capacity. Newer cars will fair better.
Owners' data suggests that mileage is not the main factor, but time is. It doesn't matter if you drive 5000 miles a year, or 50,000 miles a year, they still degrade roughly the same over time. Manufacturers know this, that's why they offer 8 years warranty, so the main question is how do these batteries fare on the years after?
Where did you get that data from? Batteries degrade by cycles of charging and discharging...
It's more complex than that. It's a combination of age and cycles of charge/discharge
Wow this is a really poor video. Very little information and a sales pitch.
I'm all for electric but where did you get 130,000 miles for a scrapped internal combustion engine from?
know someone driving a VW passat thats over 200,000 and no problems apart from a leak in the boot when it rains.
She didn’t actually say that, just that the average lifespan of ICE cars was 13 years before getting scrapped. It may have nothing to do with the engine, could be the gearbox or bodywork damage, anything that costs more to repair or replace than the car is worth. Obviously some ICE cars go on for significantly longer but that’s why it’s an average lifespan.
Exactly…. All my ICE cars 25 years about… have good engine! But they have rusted, other mechanical problems… over 15000€ / year repair expenses that led to buy new 15 years old car… so yeah…i agree. 13000 miles sounds very plausible! Most of my cars has ended ITS life span between 200000km and 250000km it is about 125000 miles to 155000 miles.
In 2009 average car was scrapped after only 13 years. So approx 130k.
In 2021 it's scrapped after 16 years. So approx 160k.
I run two ICE cars and maintain both myself. One is 13 years old & 110k. The other is 20 years old & 186k.
I'm looking forward to replacing them both with 1 EV's so I don't have to spend weekends fixing them!
@@tariqphotoI used to have a 2.5 V6 TDI A6 Avant. I bought it cheap with 215k on the clock. When I checked the history it had been clocked at 270k down to 150k, so my 215k A6 had actually covered 335k!
Ran surprisingly well and still got 55mpg out of it!
Is this video paid by EV car manufacturers? 😁
modern EVs still don't display their battery health in a simple percentage (like iPhones do). and for the concept of 'designed to last the lifetime of the car'... I wasn't born yesterday
The battery failed in My brother's 2015 Tesla model S after 260,000 miles but the battery still had 6 weeks warranty left on it and Tesla replaced it with an updated battery, during the life of the old battery it only lost 10% in range .
Poor guy lucky with his battery but to live in your Car to that mileage 😂I’m doing something wrong my Car factory ordered and ten years old in April will be on 35k miles. 😂 ok two years were lost to Covid and well we couldn’t use our Cars for a month for that fuel strike where no petrol was for sale. Friend bought a second hand Porsche a classic it had lost a quite a bit of power over the years just with wear. He put it on a rolling road and got a shock. I just think of EV batteries likewise everything degrades in Cars unless at some point you spend a fortune doing a complete nut and bolt restoration.
What if it had failed 2 months later? It would have been a total loss.
Extended warranty? Isn't the Model S 8 years or 150,000 miles?
I feel there should be a industry wide simple to read table or graphic to let the public know the condition of the Battery like a ICE car service history and MOT
For Tesla there is. Google is your friend.
Does an IC car service history tell you if the car has only done short journeys, i.e. never warmed up or cleared the DPF filter, has the car been held on the clutch on hills, has it been driven hard when it's cold.
You can check those things quickly and easily by dipping the oil and carrying out a compression test. Likewise, it’s very easy to tell if a clutch is worn. Even if it is, it’s hardly a major expense to replace it.
@@ochayethegnu2915 And you can check the battery of an EV easily with a module tester - 20 seconds. Everyone that buys a second hand car should do this, or get someone to do it for you, just like opening up the oil cap on an ICE car and looking for mayonnaise .
The only issue is that people are luddites and terrified of technology - just educate yourselves. Remember, 80% of people after 100 years have no idea how to tell if an ICE car is trashed, that will never change with EV cars either.
Very well summarized ... so many people don't get that if the battery gets weaker after 8 or 10 years, unable to process max. current peaks like needed in an EV, the battery will still be a perfect storage element for a household or a tiny piece of a bigger energy cluster for solar or wind power. So after some 20 years they will be recycled up to 98% I believe I have read, because the lithium doesn't go bad, it just reshapes itself over time but stays inside the cell and can be reused for a new cell. So the environmental impact is magnitudes lower than most people think and we hope battery reseach will present batteries with even more power and less weight and volume that will give EVs as much range as the old combustion cars as well as faster charging speeds.
This year CATL will implement a battery that is supposed to be way better in that regard and we will see the real-life result of that very soon. I am sure BYD and others have not been sleeping either and there is a great future to come.
The risk for second hand car buyers is how they can sell the car later down the line.
There’s not much risk buying a 3 year old EV, but if you want to sell it a few years later you’ll be reaching the end of the warranty, and then who will buy it? You’ll be unlikely to sell it for much more than the resale value of the battery at that point, so potentially quite a big depreciation hit compared to ICE equivalents.
Its post warranty costs thats the issue , not mileage /usage as in the examples mentioned in the comments.
Tesla model S 2 weeks out of warranty and less than 100k £18,000 to replace
You could buy a battery on E-bay @14k but it still needs fitting etc...
It's obvious that you're going to say, _"There's nothing to worry about when buying a used EV regarding battery wear."_
*_It's like VW saying that their cars had good emissions._*
*If you didn't, it'd be like turkeys voting for Christmas.*
Wait until solid state batteries come out in EVs every single one of the current models will be worth a big fat nothing
Comparing the battery of an EV with the engine of an ICE car I think is wrong. The battery is the 'fuel' for the EV. The equivalent in a petrol or diesel car is the fuel tank. Both have to be charged/filled when empty. I think the motor of the EV should be compared with the motor of the ICE car.
The engine and gearbox are the most expensive parts of an ICE car. The battery is the most expensive part of an electric car. The electric motor is extremely unlikely to fail (and relatively cheap). A fuel tank is fairly cheap. Major failures of engines or gearboxes that require replacing do happen as do the batteries on electric vehicles so it seems a fair comparison given the difference in technology. The engine and gearbox both failing is a bit of a stretch though.
Wow you need to check your facts what a load of rubbish
Maybe watch Bjørn Nyland's video a day ago on an ID4 with 24% degradation on 70k miles - which VW says is tickety boo..
ROFL. If VW thinks that's ok, then they will be replacing every ID4 battery under warranty before the end of the warranty period or mileage is reached
Hiya, nice presentation, very upbeat and no obvious product placement apart from "Spoticar." Are they a sponsor?
You compared a battery to an engine and drivetrain. It obviously should be compared to a fuel tank in an ICE vehicle. The electric motor and gearing in an EV should be compared to an engine and drivetrain in an ICE vehicle.
As servicing an EV being cheaper. The batteries are the easiest things to check. Brakes, suspension, and tyres still have to be checked. EVs also have many more hitech components to go wrong, which are harder to diagnose and replace because they are proprietary, and the spare parts supply chain is virtually non-existent for them in this country.
I've nothing against the EV.
BUT I'VE NEVER HEARD SUCH BIASED INFORMATION.
Cost of replacing a battery at 100,000 miles is equivalent to a diesel that will cover 200,000 miles with ease 😂.
Had a Toyota Prius, at 80,000 miles battery was knackered, you couldn't get a new one, so had to drive everywhere with a petrol engine.
AT LEAST GIVE BOTH SIDES OF THE ARGUMENT SO YOU DONT LOOK QUITE SO 🤪
You've just summed up one of the issues with hybrids the batteries are charged and fully discharged far more often than a dedicated EV battery as the EV battery is much larger so has an easier life. A Prius has typically a 4.4 kwh battery powering a 60kw motor, so in battery terms the max load is 13.5c, the Mini SE which has a small battery of 30kwh and a 135 kw motor has a max load of 4.5c. The higher the battery loading the more internal heat that is generated and that damages the batteries.
But, she didn't say that an EV's battery would need replacing at 100,000 miles...
In fact, the figure quoted for the life of a well-looked after battery was 300,000 miles (at 01:38 minutes in to the video)
You mentioned using the range meter & battery level to check battery health, I am not sure that really works. I thought the "range" gets calculated based on previous use, so it will not work accuately?
I'm a huge EV advocate, but I've no idea where they got the 5% degradation after 100,000 miles from?? Just not true. It's more like 10-15% on average after 100,000 miles.
Dutch Tesla owners club data
@@Lewis_Standing more than 5% according to Bjorn Nyland and his many many tests...
Agreed on this point. I too am big on the EV bandwagon, but I don't really like seeing claims without references or links to the data that produced them. After all, 74% of all statistics are made up, everyone knows that 😂
@@rylucia I think 5% is a best case, just a little misleading.
It may be correct for Tesla. I watched a video from an EV repair shop in near London. Tesla taxis with 200,000 miles had lost 10%.
We need used car searches to have electric specific filters... like being able to filter out anything that doesn't have a heat pump.
You might want to watch one of Bjorn's videos on EV batteries. He had a Tesla taxi that was supercharged a lot and it lost 16% after 245 charges and 98k kilometres.
There needs to be a huge infrastructure that will repair your battery just like garages currently repair ICE cars. It's just not there yet.
98,000 Km presumably
I think “buyer beware” of buying a used electric car that was a taxi with a high mileage in a short space of time. Same as a conventional used car with super high mileage in just a year or two.
@@asjames7711 interestingly, though, on the Leaf group I'm a member of, there are numerous 100,000+ mile Gen 1 Leaf examples which have really excellent battery State of Health percentages despite having been rapid charged, sometimes, multiple times daily.
Then there are others which have been largely AC charged, with surprisingly low SoH % with only 30-40,000 miles... 🤷♂
Great overview. Maybe i'll add that batteries can be fixed, specialist shops can repair them at cell level (tesla is said to be the easiest to repair) for a lot cheaper. Also, warranty for the battery is usually valid if battery is under 70% of capacity.
There are newer car batteries like sodium ion, Al air batteries which are way far cheaper and manufactured with easily available materials and easily recyclable BUT ARE INTENTIONALLY DELAYED TO BE MANUFACTURED BY VESTED CROOKED INTERESTS to the consumers.
I always enjoy your little tech talks.. 🙂
No one should shy away from buying a used electric. There is no difference in the protocol. You want a lower mileage vehicle, you'll need to pay for it. You're not going to find anything decent if you're not willing to pay for it. I was fortunate enough to find my 2yr old Model 3 standard range in August last year. Only had 59,995k Km's on it. Practically new all things considered. For a good chunk off the original price. Buying a new Tesla around here will still set you back 58g's. Before taxes. Even with the government credit, you're still looking at spending 63-64g's once you put aside all the fees and taxes and what not. I found my 2021 Model 3 for literally half that. That's a fair chunk saved.
I'm hoping I'll be set for the foreseeable future. Absolute joy to drive. I understand why there are so many on the road. 🙂
New model 3 is £39k
@@tomcockcroft9394 ok. Which converted to my currency, is a little more than what we would pay for here. Still looking at 60G's+ for a new standard range Model 3.
If you're patient enough and able to pounce when you see a good deal on a well kept 2nd hand Model 3, you can get a cracking deal.
I was pleased to find this video after looking for recently this information today. However im not sure why your presenter has gone for such a sarcastic approach to the answers. If over 60% of people have concerns with this issue, answering as though its a stupid question isn't really very helpful.
You haven’t told us where we are supposed to sell the used battery. I don’t know of any places in the uk. Do you?
The simpler way is use an application obd bluetooth and a phone, like car scanner
A faulty battery can often be just one bad cell. Battery makers should (by law) make batteies (cost effectively) repairable with replaceable modules. I know the tesla 4680 packs are not repairable.
As a pensioner looking to buy Electric for the 1st time, this channel is invaluable! It has answered so many questions.
Thank you all.
Big fan of Nicola but... What hasn't been mentioned is that how the battery has been treated by the previous owner(s) will have a significant impact on the battery health. Frequent rapid charging shortens both capacity (so range) and battery life. Slow charging between 20 - 80% will theoretically prolong the battery life.
I believe EV's will be a footnote in the automotive history. The s/h motortrade is not geared up for them and does not trust them. Even main dealers are shunning used evs because they have government set targets to sell new. Insurance companies don't like them either & are hiking policy prices. Result, massive price drops and very hard to shift used evs.
Most people drive older cars with higher mileages. My car is a 2012 model and still pretty much like new bar the odd minor blemish. There are plenty of mechanics able to service and ensure a long life for the oiiy bits. For EVs to be sustainable they need to have value way past the 8 year battery warranty and not just be something for people on high incomes to discard like a mobile phone every few years. At present if you are unlucky enough to have a battery pack issue there isn't an army of specialists who can refurbish it (the ideal solution because this means the car can have a long life which is most likely greener than scrapping it when relatively young). I'd only buy an EV with no battery warranty if it were very cheap and accept the associated risks on that basis unless sensible repair options were available. This suggests the very steep depreciation curve for EVs continuing and will put private buyers off.
If you are suggesting that people should change their car every two or three years then what sort of ecology is that. It's much "greener" to keep an ICE car running for many years.
How so? If you keep EV so long that you need to change battery… it is cheaper than keep ICE car the Same time. Not Evertonia change car every few years… and the longer you keep EV the more you save compare to ICE (even if you buy the new battery is meanwhile)…
But you need at least 15000km / year and home charging option. And this is based on prices in Finland so it may vary depending on where you live!)
I have been watching the transport select committee meeting on the 15th May 2024. This committee meeting was all about electric cars and the second hand car market as the second hand electric car market is stalling. It was found that the main reasons were that a great deal of second hand car dealers will not touch electric cars as they do not have the expertise in engineers and special equipment to service electric cars so they wouldn’t put electric cars on their forecourt for sale. Customers who were thinking of buying a second hand electric car were put off buying one due to the worry of the electric car battery condition as there is no UK standard to check these second hand electric car battery packs and the second reason the UK charging infrastructure. If you’re interested please go to parliament live tv to view this committee meeting held on the 15th May 2024.
Hello I would love to own 1 but the price of getting 1 then you say it's similar to replacing an engine with gearbox yet we hear cases of battery replacement being more expensive than buying a similar ev then the cost insurance. Factor in unreasonable costs of charging away from home. Am confused 😕
Do your own research. You have a world of knowledge at you finger tips.
Please note that the two incidents with Hyundai Ioniq 5 in Canada needing expensive replacement are unique to that car model and that country.
There are millions of EVs on the road, and only those two customers had that experience.
The manufacturer doesn't charge that much for the battery, but in those two incidents, third parties were able to fleece the customers and for some reason Hyundai chose to let it happen.
I love my EV but BS like this really get my back up. They cost more in the first place, they lose more and although I’m fortunate enough to be able to afford one, I feel for those that don’t earn enough to buy a new car, especially young drivers, where the cost of insurance has gone sky high. You won’t be able to buy a useable EV below 8k really as they will be worth more in parts or they won’t be useable. Where as you can still find a ICE car for 2k with plenty of life left in it.
Very clever video. And informative. Not sure that you've sold me on replacing a car battery by comparing it to replacing engine and gearbox on an ICE car.
The reality with this we will see in next 10 years. When I see EV driven over 600000 kilometers I am convinced.
Also I saw a story that replacing batteries to Hyundai Ioniq costs more than a new car.
I have has 30 years old cars that don`t have more than 200000 km in and are so rustes and bad condition otherwise that they were forsed to put out of misery… old diesel Mercedes that were driven on non salted environment can get 600000km but those cars are rarity! Most cars and end of the line at 250000km all of my ICE cars have been so far. My current car is 8 years old. 90000 km in. Motor… not expecting it to last more than 25 to 30 years… so it will maybe get 300000 if i am really lucky!
All of these cars here are Stellantis models. Currently Stellantis models second-hand have devalued very highly.... and are proper bargains.... eg 2021 Citroën E-C4 approx £14,000. Saving you £20,000 over the new price!
One major problem with this video is that it comes from proponents of electric vehicles. If the message is to be promoted, it needs to be given by impartial and unbiased media channels. The public will trust somebody who goes into delivering a judgement with an open mind more than a channel that exists to sell the virtues of electric.
Iv never heard such a load of crap
Love the multiple Nicolas, great videography from the camera person. 😁👍
There is one big exception to this tho the leaf. Thats a dangerous zsed csr to buy. Unless u really dont need the range
As the most environmentally conscious thing to do as a car owver is keep drive it for a good 10, 15 even 20yrs - I'm staggered to see such new used EVs getting resold.
I would have thought the type of people who bought them cared about the environment and wouldn't be changing their cars so often. 🤔
What a pile, SMH.
Problem is all these second hand electric cars have been taken from fleet owned electric cars and generally they have been driven by company car drivers so all that company car drivers are interested in is getting front A to B in the quickest possible time. So most of these electric cars have been on large numbers of DC charging stations and as we all know by now this is the worst charging scenario for traction battery degradation. The other point to make is that these second hand electric cars were made in small batches from the manufacturers as the mass car market were not purchasing electric cars in high volume therefore the spare parts for these second hand electric cars will be difficult to obtain quickly, so think twice before purchasing!!
And trickle charging is very important 😊
Hmm, a lot of half-truths and optimistic statements.
Agreed. But then watch Scotty Kilmer on the opposite end of the spectrum!
Nicola, you are always so clever and entertaining! Who knew that you were one of quadruplets? I can attest that the petrolganda against EV batteries is just fossil foolishness. After 6 years and 78,487 miles, my EV's battery still has 94.35% capacity.
Ahem, so it has lost more than 5% in less than 100.000 miles ? Worse than one of them promised ? Q.E.D.
My battery is fine in my 8 year old i3. However the inverter fried itself which is an €11k fix at BMW or around €8k at an independent. Can’t find any second hand so car is a write off. Battery is fine though but no one will touch an 8 year old battery.
They will make us pay for battery recycling
The battery materials have substantial value, especially in the NMC types. Battery recyclers make a profit by recycling.
The biggest issue they have is that not enough batteries have reached end of life yet because they last so long. So the recyclers make do with laptop and phone batteries and scrap from the manufacturing processes.
@@davidmenasco5743never underestimate the greed of Governments and their love for your money (taxes)
Automakers should be held legally responsible for not just the batteries but for the safe and reliable longevity of every vehicle they sell. Instead of externalising the costs and responsibilities on to vulnerable, second hand owners who waited years to own their first EV.
This includes retrofitting emissions systems of cheating diesels.
My Outlander battery has dropped from 32 miles in PHEV to just 10 miles in 8 years. A bit more than 5% I feel.
The cost of replacing an EV's battery 'may not cost much more than the cost of replacing a conventional cars' engine and gearbox'? Err…no…it costs a LOT more… Besides, replacing an engine and gearbox isn't something that the vast majority of today's drivers ever need contemplate, let alone will ever need to do.
Let's revisit this topic in another 10 years. When manufacturer warranty expires. Because it is a bit concerning to think an electric car will only survive on the road for 8 years, it's not very realistic. I think the lifespan of an ICE car is about 25 years. It's the cost of ownership after the warranty that really matters to over 75 percent of the population that can't afford to buy a brand new car, or be the second or third owner. Young adults who desperately need a car to get about. Batteries in hybrid cars are causing a lot of mayhem in developing countries at the moment. In these regions they're imported used, without warranty. Some countries are putting limits on EVs to avoid similar dumping of worthless electric cars in the future. With governments banning importation of EVs with less than 80 percent battery life left.
What funky offerings by STLA! Smart company offering sensible & solid BEV's.
Not convinced yet, I still think that it'd be more interesting to get an all inclusive lease, even private, for an electric car, changing model at the end of your lease. Never buying, always renting.
I have a real psychological problem with those magic buying loans they craft for you, with allegedly low monthly fees, but with a hefty first deposit and/or a humongous last "month".
In the end, these not-so-magic loans won't cover extra expenses like insurances, taxes, maintenance/check up fees,.. Like a full lease would.
And the saddening fast devaluation of your now new "possession" , after or during your loan, it drives me mad just thinking about it.
I'd be happy if someone proved me wrong with the proper maths. But I less and less wanna buy and own a car, especially an electric, and even less so, a used EV. I want a full package with the less worries and side expenses possible. And let them deal with the battery degradation. That especially, is certainly not out of my own pocket.
But in the end, the real issue is the overall cost of an electric car,
45k euros entry ticket for a C segment car like the 308, is still 15k too much.
Or 40k for a 208, which forces the GT version on you if you want a decent engine, is again a bad joke.
Even a Byd Atto 3, supposedly cheaper, is around 38 to 40k in Belgium. The more I dissect the market to find the rare pearl, the bitter I get, honestly.
With stellantis cars (like all those featured parked in this video), it's the rest of the car you need to worry about and not the battery. ABS wiring looms, on-board chargers and air con compressors come to mind. Look for a car with a longer standard warranty and avoid stellantis. Mat Watson's press Jeep avenger had a braking fault, not great for a brand new car
Ten years isn't much good to someone buying a 5 year old car. When they come to sell with little or no warranty.
What is better than a video with Nicola? A video with multiple Nicolas 🤩
Sorry but car manufacturers lifetime of car can be just warranty life which can be as little as a year... And even the best 7yr would require costly manufacturer inspections
Not sure about the UK, but in the US every EV has 8 years warranty on the battery. In some places it's ten years.
I would agree that EV batteries are proving to be much better than expected, the problem is that most car manufacturers are still only offering 7 or 8 year battery warranties, half of the life of the car, manufacturers need to offer at least 15 year battery warranties to give people the confidence to buy a used EV..
Except if you're Hyundai, that if something on the road scratches the external protector of the battery, then they void your warranty and charge you the same than a new car to replace the battery (real story that happened in Canada with an Ioniq 5... twice!)
In this case, the Ioniq 5’s battery cover plate on the bottom of the car was scratched and showed a small deformation, which indicated the battery had suffered an impact.
@@dden7670The deformation was really tiny and the battery itself was fine. It's something that could happen to anyone. They should have checked if the battery was fine or not and replace the cover, maybe. If they void the warranty for that, I'm not buying Hyundai, for sure. You can if you want, of course.
@@dden7670In any case, it means you're liable for a battery that costs the same as the car. Would you buy a car that just for going through a road with some loose debris the car is totalled?
The reason im reluctant to buy a used EV, even a new one is actually not the battery or motor, its the other stuff like heatpump and onboard charger. They are quite expensive, and known to fail in models like Corsa, 208 etc.
Brilliant video Nicola. I loved the editing to introduce your many sister Nicolas. Great presentation as usual. Oddly I needed to replace my ICE car battery this week less than five years from new. But they are old school I guess, extra cost for a battery with start stop gubbins. Not cheap either.
It's not all rosy on the servicing front though. Some manufacturers/dealers "overcharge" EV's for the service and with some service intervals costing more than what some complex ICE cars would cost at the same mileage so please do your research... Hyundai is one of these with their 4 year 40,000 mile service which will set you back an eye soaring £500 plus depending on the dealership.
Tesla has no servicing required to preserve the 4y/50k mile bumper-to-bumper warranty!
I waited the entire video to hear how you can tell how many 0-100 kph speed runs the pervious owner(s) did showing off to their friends.
Just like an ICE car then, you wonder how many times it was bounced off the limiter.
@@tomooo2637Yes, and driving an EV fast does very little to the battery, compared to the damage it can do to a piston engine and transmission.
@@tomooo2637 Well, I suppose. With a few notable exceptions, most all EVs have more get-up-and-go than the bulk of average ICE vehicles out there. And I'll bet the tendency is to test out that EVs acceleration. Some battery chemistries suffer from repeated quick draw-downs. Not sure when buying a used ICE Toyota Camry for instance, a person wonders how often the previous owner tried to bury the needle on that bad boy. So no, imo, on average, NOT just like an ICE vehicle.
A slowly decreasing range fuel tank is something a fixed battery EV purchaser or lessor will have to get used to, why not just say that instead of stating embellished statements. NIO offers the best products on the market for dealing with battery replacements, battery repairs, battery degradation and recycling with minimal anxiety. Sometimes you need to pull your finger out and go away from trends and follow brilliant design. Go NIO!
Useful information thanks
so the only electric car i can afford is a 2010 nissan leaf and i commute 100 miles a day on mostly motorway. i should be ok with that car since you tell me not to worry about the battery ?
Only if you can charge at the work during the day. Or rapid charge on way back. Lease a EV, leaseloco e-208 pug, 1500 down and 200 per month
The estimated range by miles on the dumb o meter is an awful way to judge the battery health. They base the miles estimate on prior driving history. Highway vs city or aggressive vs slow n easy driving. The only way to check the battery health is to have it professionally checked by the manufacturer or by a trained shop on EVs. As long as it is under warranty your pretty safe.
So used values will drop off a cliff when the warranty expires?
and that check can be done for £60, remotely
As someone who's in the motor industry I call bullshit to your "facts" , engines also last the life of a vehicle, when they're scrapped they're recycled and can easily be disposed of, electric cars and their batteries cannot; they're incredibly difficult and hazardous to recycle! Not to mention car batteries degrade a shit load over time especially with the cold weather we have in the UK and how much you have it charged etc. so many Sub 10 year old E golfs / Leafs / Zoe's we see that only have maximum of 90 miles of range well below what they had from new.... I'm sorry but I call bullshit! And just wait till that battery pack fails or catches fire, a real deadly and unfortunately way too normal issue in electric cars, the expense is astronomical, they wear brakes/tyres/wheel bearing/suspension etc. out way more than ice vehicles and I can assure you it won't be covered under warranty! Like myself and loads of other people working in the motor industry we will not be buying electric cars anytime soon! I like your channels vids I like the information and car reviews but this is just cap.
Veolia and Recyclus have dedicated EV battery recycling facilities in the UK.
Yes, in the same way that petrol / diesel engines don't like the cold and so use more fuel than in summer, batteries don't perform as well in colder climates - but the newer EVs now have active thermal management and battery pre-conditioning which allows the pack to work at its most efficient temperature.
Norway is WAY colder than the UK, yet EVs made up 87% of new car sales last year alone.
The Swedish Civil Contingencies Agency report from 2022 proves that EVs are 20 times less likely to catch fire compared to ICE vehicles.
Why would a 2 ton EV wear out its brakes/tyres/wheel bearing/suspension etc any more than a 2 ton diesel SUV, of which there are many sold in the UK? That seems illogical.
With one pedal driving, the brakes barely get used.
Of course petrol is clearly not a fire hazard is it?
The ICE scare-mongering is laughable & embarrassing.
My 9 yr old diesel has broken down twice in recent months (once on the motorway) at a combined cost of £1000.
Going electric.
Tip: Don't buy a used electric car!
lets put it this way you won`t be seeing any classic EVs in 40yrs time, and just like solar panels what happens with the batteries when there no good can they be recycled ? or are we going to landfill them like used solar panels ?.
Can anybody else smell that? The faint wiff of living next door to a cattle farm.
The concern is actually that the EV battery of a second-hand EV may be unnoticeably traumatised. There is no way of telling that something is not right with a battery for a long time. That may just be the second-hand EV you are buying. No diagnostics can show where there may be a fault, a bump, a weakness or any blemish within those rowa and rows of battery cells. This person may have forgotten to mention this. The best thing to do is to just take a chance and buy your very own second-hand EV. Nice one.
This video is the biggest bunch of 'ev love bs' ever. Completely ignores or dances around the bad parts and only promotes the good points.
First of all the video is titled to talk about used evs, yet you talk about new ev batteries. And when you do talk about used evs, you say you only need care if your in a older car with larger milage, aka the used car market. Or do you not car about cars that are older than 8 years or more than 100,000 miles?! because every car i have ever bought has been older that 10 years.
Second, you keep saying 'life of the car' but that only means life that the manufacture cares about. aka the warranty period. Beyond that, the car is past its considered 'life'. Plus ICE cars are always quoted as a life of 1 million km, but achieve 1/3 of that at best majority of the time. so a life of 300,000 miles for an ev does not bode well for evs lasting as long as ice cars.
And third, while degradation varies, many have reported higer deg than 5% every 100k miles. Plus so, so many people who have had battery failure have shown that once a car reaches 70% the capacity, it starts falls off a cliff. so 70% is basically end of usable life for a ev battery.
And finally, all that about the batteries being recyclable is nice, but that does not matter when the replacement cost it so high. it just doesn't matter what happens to it. also an ice engine is also recycled. Plus a battery replacement is absolutely not the same or similar price as an ice engine being replaced in price (battery is $15-30k, ice engine is $6-10k, with a brand new, not refirbished used adding an extra $5k). plus you said engine & gearbox, are you also saying a bettery & drive motor needs to be replaced at the same time, or do you like to compare things that are different just to make a point
Great information, but tooooo many reporters 😂😂😂😂😂😂
Great vlog, but ahhhh 4 Nicola’s, 1 is more than enough, but 4 my head is done in. What’s next 6 Ginny’s. Well at least she was measuring the boot again. ❤️ ❤️ 🥰 love you really Nicola 😬😬
A lot will change as technology evolves and new manufacturers com China make it to W European markets. I would not want to spend a load of money in 2024 buying a car with a battery that will be much smaller or noticeably slower to charge than the models on sale in 2026. The bottom will fall out of the used EV market before I can commit.
Interesting video but I can't help but feel the message is going to those of us who already understand how good battery life is. I like fun videos but on this one the gimmicky photography was distracting ... sorry Nicola you are great ... but one of you is enough.
That sounds alright.
Nah. Most car dealers won't touch them with a bargepole.
Anyone interested in truth about Lithium batteries should watch video by Prof Paul Christensen.
Still waiting for my ev to lose a bit of charge but after 3 years still getting exactly the same mileage
My 21-year-old Mazda Miata continues to run without any range degradation. I expect to run it for another 10 years without any further degradation as well. Also, claiming that EV batteries are being recycled is disingenuous and repurposing a modern EV battery is next to impossible.
Veolia and Recyclus have dedicated EV battery recycling plants in the UK.
And Second Life EV Batteries in Dorset repurpose 'old' EV batteries in to home storage battery packs.
That Vauxhall Grandland is not an electric car...
Good try, but second hand cars near end of life, will be like playing pass the parcel. Someone cops the expense of either scrapping it and accepting that they've lost their money (and car) or replacing the battery at a extortionate cost. As most cars of a certain vintage will be driven as first cars by young new drivers, who won't be able to afford to spend a 'fortune' to replace a battery, they'll probably be avoided which will also destroy the desirability of owning a 'old' EV because of that risk, which in turn destroys the resale value of the EV, as the market disappears. Of course things can change in time and replacement batteries could become cheap and easily interchangeable and we might get a technological leap forward to extend, prolong and maintain battery life, but that's unlikely to impact the cars on sale today!
Stop reading the Murdoch press.
You kinda said it yourself - things can change in time...
There are already companies springing up that can replace the individual cells in a pack, rather than replace the entire pack itself - that brings the costs down significantly.
Very pleasant video 😁😁
1 Nicola is an enjoyable presenter but 4 Nicola's is absolutely terrifying 😂😂
Good job
What was the point of mentioning that the battery is valuable? Is there any way to benefit from this? Youd think that if it wad valuable then you could sell the old and put the money toward a new one... but you then reaffirmed that the new battery was "currently still very expensive".
Why do the parents of quads always dress them alike!
😂 nice one Nichola
Electrifying....Busting electric car myths, one video at a time
and creating some of its own!
Cheers Nicola
Nicola has been cloned x4 but which is the real one🤔
4:31 4 Nicolas 😂
Smart--put the most expensive item 10 inches from the road and protected by a thin sheet of metal---then specify in the warranty that road hazards are not covered. A few stories lately are coming to light on manufacturers with packs that have that stupid paste so you cant easily replace individual cells----of course, this comment will get smoked by the fanboys