Panzer Arms M4 Shotgun (Watch Before Buying This Turkish Benelli Clone!)
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- čas přidán 10. 07. 2024
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When I started into guns I had a Succubus for a wife and couldn't afford anything, so I got cheap guns. One good thing that came of that is I had no choice but to learn to work on guns, and it made me get into the hobby even more and eventually acquire a ton of tools and knowledge.
There's no excuse for the poor customer service, but if you don't hear back...take the opportunity to tear the thing down and try to fix it. You may find out you love working on them, who knows.
Working on guns really is a requirement if you want to get into the hobby deeply, but sometimes you just have to have a spare/replacement part. No amount of work can fix a part if its just flatout broken.
@@misha5670 That's true for sure. I also had zero access to a competent gunsmith in addition to being broke. I tried one cheap gunsmith one time and he jacked up my rifle so bad that motivated me even more.
Do you need us to donate a better mic for the studio room? that thing is hard to listen to
He's working on it. When i am there, we can use mine, but when not? Well camera stuff does get expensive. Fox had to buy a Gopro, gear for it, and most recently a computer to edit with. That said, I've been telling him a mic should get put high up on his to-do list.
I agree the studio needs a decent mic & in 2 weeks tops ill have it all setup. Thanks for hanging in there!
@@foxf6 To be fair, a cheap sounding video kind of fits this shotgun.
@@misha5670 lmao
My Panzer Arms M4 works just fine at 1/4 of the price..
I have the Panzer M4 with the standard stock (Not telescoping), and I have not had any issues with it. I have only shot high brass shells, buckshot, and number 9 bird shot. As for what I do with it, it suits me perfectly. $450 vs. $2200 is a considerable price difference. If you can afford a Benneli, go for it. Thanks for the video, I love the water shots!
the panzer m4 needs a breaking in period just like the benelli around 200 rounds of high brass I bought one as well a few months ago and I have put around 300 rounds through mine and i haven't had one ftf, or fte. on anything and I have run the cheap federal red box walmart ammo thru her maybe I got a good one but I love her and I'm one that can't afford a 2200 dollar shotgun.
Yep
My first shot was a mossberg 500 I bought at a pawn shop for $300. I was 18 and broke as hell, but I needed something for home defense. I had 2 guns. My 10/22 and my 500. I’m 47 now and I’ve still got both of them
Right there with you. First shotgun i bought as an adult with my own money was a 500 too. Its gone now to a family member who needed it more, but i replaced it with both a 590 Shockwave and M590A1 as fully US militaried out as I could make it. I'll probably never sell either.
Me too. I eventually upgraded to a Benelli Super 90 which I still have and like. The M4 rules though.
Good choices.
The fixed stock version is like the way to go. Also, if you buy from a mega retailer like PSA, their customer service will take care of you, then they will deal with the mfg.
I disagree. PSA, Buds, etc. As soon as you sign at your FFL, they wash their hands of you.
@342boss I can't speak of Buds. But PSA I can. Their customer service was very prompt and overly extending.
Either way. We are getting together a group purchase for these lil honeys!
Not really, I agree with @342boss. I purchased a PSA AK and had what turned out to be a malformed recoil spring holder slot. PSA just ignored all my attempts for service. I pawned it off and took a $100 loss. It was a piece of junk with no service, glad to be rid of it.
These have been as low as $350, and most Benelli parts will retrofit. The biggest issues I’ve seen (but not experienced) have been poor heat treat on the carrier and pistons. The easy solution is replace with $250 in Benelli parts, and you’ll never have the issue again, and STILL be ahead over $2k.
Who put the tube/grip on that one? Because without pulling the fire control group out, it shouldn’t be moving around like that, unless it was over-torqued/broken by a ham handed install.
Personally, if you don’t get any mfg relief, I’d tap the inside of the recoil tube, and put in a fine thread set screw, or look at Benelli’s plug. Did that with an extended mag tube
Panzer Arms makes all their parts in house. Other Turkish made shorties have their parts subcontracted out to the lowest bidder. If you search Benelli M4 collapsible stock failure you can find plenty of stories.
Thanks for the share gentlemen. Good honest feedback.
Good luck on finishing up EMT and Fire school 👍🏽just remember to study your ass off, stay humble, and the phrase “smooth is fast”
pov: me who bought panzer m4 6 months ago. still watches this vid
I have a Hawk 981R that has been a great budget shotgun. Great video as always
We have a group of guys that run them steady at my Club and the swear by them. I bought one on their recommendation and have not looked back. No issues with over 300 rounds of all kinds of ammo. A lot of buck shot. At the Price I paid, I could buy 4 of them compared to the Benelli. I own quite a number of shotguns, Beretta, Mossberg and a few Turkish guns. Yea, there are some cheap one's out there, but then again their are some very nice ones as well. I highly recommend the Panzer.
About a year later is it still running pretty well or have you had to do any repairs?
Second the year question
I have run several hundred rounds of bird shot (high and low brass) thru my Panzer. Run several boxes of slugs as well as probably close to a hundred rounds of federal LE buckshot. Not one malfunction. I was doing a direct comparison to my Beretta 1301 and a Benelli M3 and an M4. The 1301 seemed to have more felt recoil overall with every type of load. The Panzer preformed very well and for the price it did great. The difference between the real deal and the clone was only noticeable if you were really looking for it. At the end of the trials the stock did have an issue like yours (I caught it a bit sooner). There is a retaining pin in the stock that walked out. Once it was reset it was just fine. If need be it could be staked down and then would not move. Problem solved. For 1/4 the price for someone who may never shoot 500 rounds thru it, it's a bargain in my humble opinion. If it's a go to war gun, get the real deal. That's why I buy once cry once and own a Beretta and a Benelli
PS don't cheap out on your audio gear
Sounds like you want to join the Patreon so Fox can pick up a mic of his own! I do have a nice one but we're not always together and live over an hour apart.
@@misha5670 yea fox is new to the CZcams videos . I'm sure he will grab a better mic when he gets a chance he probly didn't even realize it. I'm glad you brought fox in on the channel Misha you guys make a good team for sure. You with all your knowledge and the history aspect and like you said fox likes to run and gun doing drills is a good thing to no how they handle in that aspect for me. Because I'm a guy like fox who runs drills and courses. But also I'm a guy to that loves the history behind firearms. And like to learn everything about the firearms I buy and the history why and when they were made. And that's why I've been watching your channel for about 7 years now. Most everything I no about the history of the firearms I own or firearms I'm thinking about buying I've learned from you on your channel. I go to your channel and to find out if they are worth buying or not. I trust your judgment and knowledge on all your videos. It isn't hard to tell you no what you are talking about and a good honest person to do business with. Thanks for all the videos you put on your channel. Alot of people like me really appreciate you taking time out to share your knowledge on them Misha. There isn't alot of honest youtubers in the gun community that give honest oppinions due to some with sponsors or getting payoffs to say something is good to try and push a new firearm. So when I see honest people like you and rob ski make videos and are going to tell the truth if they are good or junk I believe it. Because you guys aren't in it for the money yall are in it from pure love of firearms and it isn't hard to see that.
Thanks for the comment, just picked up a panzer. Any details on the pin I should be watching or fix so that doesn’t happen ? Thanks
@@alcmann the pin is on the detetent for the collapsible stock.
This video was sponsored by Bennelli. 😂😂😂
I wish, I’ve spent enough with them. Lol
Great video guys! Buyer beware for sure 💯
Thanks Fox , Nephew, & Misha 😀😊 Great Topic
I have the fixed stock version Panzer M4 and love the thing
Me too. No problems with mine.
Same here , had turned 18 and I wanted to get me a gun but being a broke student with a minimum wage job at the time not a lot of dough even for an 870 or mossberg 500. Got a H&R pardner pump (made by hawk industries too) and it’s been solid.a heavy mix of buck, slugs and game loads as I got whatever was on sale or cheap. $130 bucks out the door.
Did it serve yah well?
Thank you 2 for doing the TFBTV 500-round burn-down test.
I'll pass...
I don’t think it’s worth the ammo 😆
I appreciate this vid. Was planning to buy a Panzer M4 but will save up to get a Benelli instead
The only people giving the Panzer bad reviews are Benelli snobs. True gun experts have thousands on rounds through the Panzer.
Tbf, Turkish guns aren’t all that good and resale value is awful cus it’s out of turkey.
Thats bc benelli snobs have been burned to many times by cheap guns
My first shotgun was a single shot Winchester 20 ga that I got for Christmas in 1956. It functioned very well. I bought a Remington 878 Wingmaster in 1963 and it still works well. The gas operation reduces the 12 ga recoil to an acceptable degree for my now 80 year old body.
Got my Panzer m4 and had to immediately send it back for canted sights. Now I have to fight Panzer service just for them to do something about it.
So how's service going on those canted sights from Panzer ?
Researching to buy... thanks
@@Soli_Deo_Gloria_. I was told their expert gunsmith was coming into fix it, but I just want a new gun. I ended up buying an a300 UP. And still waiting on word on whenever I'm going to get it back. If you do decide to get one, make sure you REALLY look it over before you take transfer, but honestly save your money and get something else.
@@ipsykotik
So is that a United States based service center or was it shipped to Turkey ? Also the fact that a gunsmith has to "come in to fix it" which means they don't employ full time service is less than stellar...
Thanks for responding and have a good day !
@Soli_Deo_Gloria_. ya the service is done out of some gun store in Philadelphia. They had to get the ok for everything from panzer for any type of movement. It's definitely not worth the trouble.
These are to Benelli M4s what VW kit cars are to Ferraris.
Amen !!!! You just said it all !!!
Hi guys great video I just got done watching it for the first time I am with you on the losey customer service problems they are very lousy this is going to make or break Panzer arms if they don't get it together! I bought my M4 2 years ago didn't even get it out to the range! I am a firm believer on cleaning all the factory oil out of the gun and put in my own oil in before even taking it out! Little did I know that for some reason a lot of these Turkish guns use a lot of Loctite on their threads and I was taking the Piston plugs out and they were Loctite it in I broke one getting it out my thought what the hell! Did some research found out they were using Loctite and had to heat it up to get the other one out! Researched this and Benelli does nor do this so... don't understand why in the hell Panzer does! I tried to get ahold of Panzer arms and it took 9 months didn't hear nothing back! I mean dude when you call them they don't even have a customer service person they have a recording saying leave voice message that you cannot even leave and tell you to send in an email for any problems ! Then they put a deal on their voicemail finally that you can leave your phone number and they would get back to you that took another month I left them 4 to 5 messages finally they emailed me back told me to send pictures of what the problem was took another two months to reply back from them again! At this point I thought about throwing Benelli Parts at it but their piston plugs are $100 a pop! Granite this would probably upgrade the gun which I guess a person could do since you only spend $450 on one but I figure what the hell there's a customer service and somewhat of a warranty guarantee they should honor it and get back with you at least I think this is BS! Finally after 9 months out of the clear blue I get this email that I'm going to have parts coming through the mail have no idea who from someone's unsourced Gun Shop I had two piston plugs sent froma Dan's sporting goods ! ( I guess that is who they have supply them ,hell if I know right)! So I did get them finally ran the gun it ran perfect with no issues! But don't know if I want to keep the gun because lousy customer service thinking about trading it in for a Mossberg 930 spx Or a 590 A1. Idk what is your opinion?! Keep up the great videos and have an awesome day!!! Brian.
Does that have the same spring clip that a benelli m4 has in the back? If that fell out, the recoil spring could def shoot out. Instead of the panzer I bought a m1014 from Misha. First shotgun I purchased with my own money was lynx 12 for way too much. Put hundreds of rounds through and brought to pumpkin shoots. When side by side with my saiga 12 it’s not as nice. Thanks
Would have been useful if you had posted some detailed pictures of what went wrong? What broke? What wore out?
follow up video will be posted very soon
So random question but if I bought something like this from Buds with a standard stock, wouldn’t they replace it under their lifetime warranty?
I just bought a Beretta 1301 Tactical, right out of the box the release bolt mechanism was defective called Beretta and the gun is I'm transit back to Tennessee under warranty. I haven't even shot one round through it yet. Next I ordered a Panzer M4 the skeleton stock for me is too long. So without shooting the Panzer M4 once. I'm going to cut my loss and trade it for money down on a Beretta A300 Ultima. Patrol. 2 guns bought no shots fired!!! The thing is I had issues with 😮one of the best semiautomatic shot guns, the 1301, things happen it does have a 3yr warranty though but its also 3X more expensive right out of the box then the Panzer M4 And you can pick those up cheap and replace the skeleton stock. My opinion, save for a better gun like the Beretta Ultima Patrol or the Mossberg 940 tactical or the Benelli M2. Or move up to the 1301 tactical or the benilli M4
Nobody does it like the Germans, except the Italians.
I've never had any issues with mine. I have replaced the buffer because I wanted the adjustable stock mine didn't come with it. I bought it used, and have no idea how many shells were through it before me. I don't shoot that much but over the past 4 years I probably put at least 1000 through it myself. I'm not out there trying to outrun the action or burn my gun down, neither am I out there rolling in the weeds playing tactical soldier. I'm reasonably sure I could bust any gun if I beat it. and I always tear down any new or used gun and inspect things before I shoot them. it's very rare that I have any problems even with the cheapest clones out there.
If somebody asked me what pistol or rifle I’d own if I could only own one, there’s no way I could answer. But for a shotgun the response would be knee jerk. BENELLI M4!
For a selfloader? yep, but for a pump, a Mossenberg is still hard to beat. Not just for the money but just in general.
@@misha5670 I guess it’s a time tested and proven design.
Yep, couldn’t agree more.
Nice skate deck in the background. Back in the day I was blasting airs with those. Age is a bummer😂
I still skate. One day I’ll upload the video of me breaking down Aks and skating lol.
Tell me about it. I nearly broke my leg a couple months ago just moving our bed around. Sure its a kingsize but damn, i used to be able to do that stuff w/o any worries at all.
@@foxf6 *sigh*, guess we'll be visiting you in the hospital sometime soon then. I wonder how youtube would react to that video too?
@@misha5670 Have Fox do that shit for you Misha. If he gives you flack, throw him a bone from your shop. Lol.
I put a lifetime warranty on mine through Buds Gun Shop.
So did he....part #2 to this story is coming soon.
@@misha5670 any updates?
Was there ever another video about this Bud's Gun Shop lifetime warranty on the Panzer M4 @@misha5670
I have had the exact opposite experience. Had a gas plug issue and in 3 days Panzer shipped me a brand new one. Looks like that telescoping stock was improperly installed. Looks like the original tube wasn’t changed and it needs to be to be accommodate the telescoping stock.
If I may please... I offer something to consider. If you value the pond you were shooting into and are using lead shot, you may want to consider not shooting into it anymore. I had a wonderful pond and I wound up creating a hazard as the water became contaminated by the lead shot and the cattle that drank from it had to be destroyed because of the lead levels. Enjoyed your video and appreciate the information.
Thanks man! Actually that’s one of many ponds and mud holes on the property. We don’t water cattle from it nor does it usually even have much water in it. We leave the good ponds alone, Thanks for the concern and comment!
@@foxf6 You're welcome. Always a concern when presenting a thought like I did... appreciate your quick and kind reply.
@@briandickinson3721 of course, I appreciate you looking out for the well being of others.
Hickok45 had a more favorable review of it.
indeed he did.
But then there is TFB-TV's review. Thing to remember with any review; sample size of one. My advice is not to buy or not buy any gun based on someone's review; ours included. I've definitely bought guns that weren't reviewing great at the time.
@@misha5670 that's still tricky. It's difficult to get a clear opinion on anything, these days. It seems like companies are, more and more, cutting corners and throwing just whatever into the box, all while hiking prices.
So supposedly every part on these are interchangeable with a Benelli. So why not just get the Benelli parts to fix it and it will probably run forever. But yes customer service should have made it right
You could have gotten a mossberg for that price. I have a mossberg 590A1 and a Benelli m4 with thousands of rounds through them with no issues. Sorry for your luck, I think this type of experience is what turns off lots of new shooters and gun owners. Hopefully it will get worked out
Hard to beat a Mossberg 590 for the price. Thanks for watching.
My Panzer M4 already has more than 500 rounds through it, and most of the shells I shot are those cheap Rio game loads 12G. So far so good! Or maybe he got a lemon? 🍋
But that's not the original stock is it? I just looked, and the Panzer comes with a fixed stock. Unless you got some special edition that came with a collapsible stock, that's an after market install, so it's not fair to blame it on Panzer.
Panzer sells them with these stocks. I recommend a standard style stock. And have had no issues with it?
It appears that after the initial round of importing Turkish shotguns (which had great reviews) from major companies like Hatsan (been building guns longer then there has been a USA) that other importers jumped on the bandwagon bringing the CHEAPEST guns they could get from no name companies. That all have issues, So bad that they change the name and importer of certain shotguns on a regular basis.
When Canik was importing the first TP series, most folks were skeptical .
Ive been thinking about getting one, but they seem to be getting alot of mixed reviews. Not sure what to do haha.
Too bad the kid did not pick up a Mossburg 500 , or a used 870 instead of the Panzer.
No issues shooting-wise on my Panzer M4 with about 220 rounds fired, love it!
That being said the collapsible stock broke on mine as well so I put the factory skeletonized fixed stock back on it
Keep breaking it in! Hopefully panzer serves you well. Thanks for watching.
@@foxf6yes sir. Is it a Benelli? No, but I'm happy with spending 1/4 of the price of a Benelli and still getting a nice feeling and functioning shotgun! All of the parts are interchangeable with Benellis too supposedly
@@nickadkins7765 so about that I was going to mention in this video but I didn’t. We tried several Benelli parts on this, and could not get them to interchange. Also, the issue with that is Benelli parts aren’t cheap, kind of like my nephews experience, If you’re at the point where you need to start replacing parts with actual Benelli, chances are the gun is not going to be worth the investment to make it function. Keep in mind I am not mouthing anyone’s decision to purchase these types of guns, I just think it’s important To note if anything does go
wrong panzer could care less & not all Benelli parts seem to fit.
@@foxf6 good to know, I appreciate it. What wouldn't interchange???
@@foxf6 I think it might be more accurate to say it is compatable with Benelli M4 accessories + major add-ons like the mag tube extension. Oddly, buttstocks do not seem interchangible though.
So if the butt stock failed, would you just get a replacement or even go with a fixed stock next time?
Wouldn't you just buy a bennelli stock ?
Have over 500 rounds of mixed ammo and it shoot everything. Low power 1100fps bird all the way up to 1600 fps 1 oz slugs. 3ich yep no problem.
You should try the cz 612, 712 or 1012, the 612 and 712 are nice and around 400-600, the 1012 is nicer and is a cleaner auto adjusting action for 800+
You probably don’t know how to take care of of that type of gun he’s young so he probably dropped it and didn’t tell anyone and now he what a new shot gun, money doesn’t make the gun quality does🎉
From what I understand, you can replace the stock with a Benelli Stock and some other benelli parts.
I’ve done the budget gun route and the more bouji route. I think it depends on the purpose. If your depending on your life, a once in a lifetime hunt, and have the financial ability, the name brand is the way to go. But if your looking for a run rough put away wet type gun, truck gun, or a beater, budget guns work well.
If I got the Panzer, which I’ve considered, I’d be looking to use it for a home defense and short range deer slug gun. Neither purpose is gonna get a ton of rough use so I’d be comfortable with the fixed stock .
My current home defense was purchases used as a Stoeger 12 gauge Coach gun. The seller hid a cracked stock very well and I’m currently making a new rear stock for it. I paid $200 for a $350 new gun, now I’ll have a stock homemade from Menards quality lumber. If an evidence room has to take my gun in the event of a home intruder, I’m not too concerned. I’d rather loose that then my nice handguns or my expensive rifles.
I wanted to say your comment about an evidence room is spot-on and something I've noticed few consider when it comes to HD or CCW purchases. Any firearm used in a shooting, lawful or otherwise, is going away with the police. I 100% agree with you that I too wouldn't use a valuable or rare gun for defense...and never, ever would I use an SBR for such a role.
Personally from everything I have seen I wouldn't touch any of the Turkish shotgun offerings. Something like a used Mossberg 930 might not have the cool factor of a M4 clone but it also probably won't turn into a brick or if it did at least the customer service would respond to you. There are solid Turkish guns, I own a Canik and MKE MP5 clone and they are great, but I think if you really want a Benelli M4 you might just want to save up and get the real deal.
💯
I have a Turkish double barrel break action and it's awesome, but not sure I'd try any of their pump or semi autos judging by the reviews I've seen. Mossberg or Maverick is probably the way to go if you need a cheaper one. Or buy an old Winchester 1200, cut it down and put some modern furniture and a mag tube on it.
As a Turkish citizen and owner of two Turkish made shotgun as in everywhere,there are high&low quality products if it's so cheap probably not useful
This comes from not installing the after-market 3-position stock correctly.
I love my maxim defense stocks. Best.
I have 2 and like the quality as well.
I hate to say it, but sometimes the saying is true. You get what you pay for.
Yeeeep
@@foxf6 Learned that with one of those Chinese Winchester M97 Trenchguns. Looked quite nice when new, but broke after a few range trips. When we went to fix it, we soon realised that orig Winchester parts would in no-way fit or even could be modified to fit. Thing was, the milled receiver it was built on appeared to be great quality steel. Its assembly and lack of final QC are what let it down.
I get these more affordable copies with an expectation of issues. Then I'm not disappointed. I use them to test the platform to see if I want to pony up for the original.
The way I shop, I wait for a low or a sale. I've seen these Panzer m4s as low as 250ish. When they reach 400 or more, I'm not interested.
For 250-300, I can test the platform and then either upgrade to better parts, or sell it honestly and lose a hundred dollars or so. Whereas I could jump in and buy an actual m4 just to find it isn't for me and potentially lose significantly more.
Didn't really change my mind buy the gun up grade the stock and then go buy 3 more and still haven't spent what you would for the Bm4 and I get it you get what u pay for spend 600 bucks go play and still have extra cash just my opinion
JUST AS GUDDDDDDDD
Sure...as...something, but sure as hell ain't an Italian Benelli hehe.
1 dollar a shot 🙃, any benelli replacement parts on it?
Idk what that flag is but looks based asf rock on
thanks! its my "unit" logo. I have stickers, patches, & flags up for sell. ill have a site soon to order from.
Get a mic dude. Sounds like your talking into a soda can. Nonetheless a very informative video.
Maybe , keep things tightened up , and it would stay together ? Just saying
Hi all. Is the Panzer M4 the American version of the Canadian Canuck Operator?
Fox-man in da house !
How ya afford ammo while in college let along buying a clone or a m4?
Oh lovely, I just put a non refundable deposit on one of these with the non telescoping skeleton stock at buds.🙄
Me too! I think ill just take the $150 hit and walk though. I can take the $400 I still owe and put it towards something reliable.
@@DEDSEXYDEVILDOG
So did you abandoned your Panzer M4, if no, how's it going ?
@justinleary
So what became of your Panzer M4, big regret or big awesome ?
@@Soli_Deo_Gloria_. i used the deposit to get mags for something else. Panzer did some new things on the current models. Bought one a month ago, good so far, the action is butter smooth. Ran flawlessly on light loads up to magnum loads, no malfunctions, 300 or so rounds so far.
It’s the AK of shotguns
Um sorry but how's that?
@@misha5670 i think he means the hawk 982
I appreciate the review, it probably saved myself and others some money. I wouldn't expect it to be super high end, but I also wouldn't expect it to take a dump after 500 rounds. The lack of customer support response definitely makes this a hard pass for me.
Apparently you must have never dealt with the Beretta groups customer service. It is TERRIBLE.
My first shotgun i purchased was a 1301. If you are on a budget DO YOURSELF A FAVOR, get a maverick 88, 590 or rem 870. It'll be a far better option over Turkish clones or cheap Turkish semi autos. You'll actually be able to have them down to your kids
For anyone whose hung around this channel for long, they know we love Mossenbergs. I often joke that i like the cheapest and the most expensive shotguns: Mossies & Bennies. Back when i was in college, 500s were really inexpensive. Say $200-$250 new and as low as $100 used. Thing is, they worked. Plus, Mossberg 500/590, still made in the USA. Not saying imports are bad at all, but i do like suporting American workers when practical.
Just watched a 500 rd torture test, ran flawlessly. That's facts, seems like looking for clicks, first time watcher and not to interested in bashing another company's gun. Good luck
is it possible for him to put a proper Benelli stock and accessories onto that gun?
All parts are interchangeable
Bullet tubes don't work
The recoil spring needs to be replaced with a lower power spring
So the gun itself functions fine, just the cheap plastic stock broke? I'd count your losses, but a legit Benelli stock and just keep rocking it.
Nope, the assembly that retains the entire recoil system sheared out of the receiver extension. It wasn't the stock that broke.
@Misha sure, but as long as there wasn't any damage to the receiver itself, which appears to be the case, just remove the entire stock assembly and replace it with an OEM Benelli collapsible stock assembly. As far as I'm aware, they're interchangeable.
I actually tried that with my old Benelli stock and like Misha said, it was far beyond that.
@Fox F6 that's a bummer. I was under the impression you're able to host remove the entire grip/stock assembly. Either that or I may just be misunderstanding where the damage has occurred.
@@smokeeater917 + stocks aren't actually interchangible. Other youtube videos have pointed this out too.
Re really poor customer service, we tried to contact Ithaca's customer service via phone and email about a Model 37 shotgun we bought - and got zero response - even though we left a voice message. When we tried using Facebook, someone actually replied (!) and said that they had no knowledge of our trying to contact Ithaca. They asked us if we had used the right phone number! When we asked them a simple follow-up question on Facebook, they never responded and disappeared. Clearly, there was deception going on, and we have no idea why.
(We had called the number shown on the Ithaca web site at least twice and used the email provided to reach Ithaca customer service.)
Our poor customer service 'champs' short list:
1. AT&T
2. Comcast
3. Ithaca Guns
I had huge problems from the Turk Bebelli M2 clones, terrible guns.
Military armament corp or tisas is the only quality Turkish manufacturer imo
Lapel mic please.
Please do something with your audio.
I think I’m gonna get the 88 for my first shotgun, I think Academy has it for like 250. I’ve yet to hear anything bad about it. Although I prefer shooting rifles, I feel like one round of double ought buck. May be more effective for home defense
Winchester makes a home defense round called the defender. Solid choice with the 88
I have an 870 but don't really care for shotguns. If you have more than 50yds to work with just use a rifle. Slugs are for large game
@@SuspiciousGanymede just like any tool, it has its place.
That’s a solid choice for a first shotgun , I have no issues with my first shotgun a hawk industries made h&r pardner pump but something about owning an American made gun feels good. Look around too I found a cherry 1970 Remington 870 at my local sporting goods store on their trade in rack for $250
Hi guys, we are still waiting you to send the gun to see the problem but get any reply from you
I just LOVE how you get no customer service until the problem shows up on a CZcams Vid !!!
I enjoyed your professionalism today....Your quite new to the whole gun community me thinks.
I doubt these 2 d-bags even tried contacting the manufacturer. They're on Benelli's nuts like thirsty fan boys.
@Panzerarmsusa
Please stop sending out canted sights on your guns... I've seen more than one person say they had this problem...
You could probably fix that stock with a little duct tape and JB Weld, right? And yeah, James from TFB can't seem to get a full 500 rds through turkish shotguns either. Maverick 88? No problem! I love my turkeys, however, smooth like butter. But again, they're not go-to-war guns like someone else mentioned, so it's all good. They just shoot a little too low!
JB weld got my life put back together, somewhat....stuff will fix anything!
$2K for a shotgun and then accessorize it....lot of people have drank the cooled....
guess so. the more I train and use my tools the more im about buying quality gear and guns. especially when my life depends on it.
@@foxf6your life will never depend on it unless you are a Leo.
@@jdl9679 you should buy a lottery ticket since you know the future.
I can't take any "review" credibly that makes an assumption based on one failure, especially when its a known issue that happens to real Bennelli M4's with the skeletonized adjustable stock. The issue is easily fixable, and that particular Panzer has been proven to be a literal exact part for part clone of a real Benelli (besides the stock), since the design patent expired for the original M4 and literally no difference in performance. Replace the stock and tube, if necessary, and do a real 2000 rd review of reliability. I do agree on the customer service criticism however that comes with the territory sometimes with imports.
Benelli Nova
Panzer shotgun 👍👍
And to people that say you have to look hard to see the difference between a real M4 and the panzer, you are full of shit and you know it. I guess you have to justify your purchase but they aren’t in the same galaxy. The panzer has machine marks galore flashing marks on all the furniture and the finish isn’t great and it feels cheap as a whole
I wouldn't mistake which one I was picking up either....and I am goddamned blind.
clearly they have never held a real M4.
What Chinese imports are you referring to. The only Chinese companies that make guns are Daewoo & Norinco, and neither are budget guns!
Daewoo is korean lol
the cz 1012 that broke the record of most skeet shot fired is actually a turkish huglu gun. not even a benelli. so yeah. americans went and got the cheapest panzer gun out of turqia and now you wanna crap on all turkish guns. turks make better guns than americans do. all you do is have chinese slaves make stuff for you. huglu sarsilmaz retay stoeger ata khan hatsan all are great guns. i never even heard of panzer before this m4 clone hype.
no ones craping on any guns, 90% of all my guns are import.. I even stated Canik is one of my more favorable pistols..
I see you missed the videos I've done on MKE products for the past decade?
Butthurt much? Panzer sucks. Huglu and Stoeger don’t. They were saying the gun was bad, not your whole country.
Turkish guns most times are better than american guns!
I’m be owned 3 Turkish semi auto shotguns.. they are junk. Poor design, poor metals used. Check your internals.. I’m telling you.. they fall apart.
Don’t waste your money.
The sad part is that they have manufacturers in Turkey making world class shotguns, they just don’t seem to export them here.
@@jackjohnson291 Or the American companies importing them order them to the lowest price point possible. I am less annoyed at the gun breaking than I am Panzer's lack of communications and apparent non-ex warranty.
I’ve had a Panzer M4 for $449. I’ve shot 250 rds with one ftf. I would suggest replacing the recoil tube and spring. CQ and CS may be lacking with Panzer. I wouldn’t give up especially if you have some diy skills.
Don't know why Turkish shotguns are so bad I have a canik tp9sfx with thousands of rounds through it no problem kinda strange.
I don't think "Turkish" shotguns are "bad" and I don't think they are created equal at all either. There are American made guns aren't very well made as well.
I don't own this M4 clone to look at, but the quality or components and engineering vary greatly. If you ever look at the Turkish made "Hatfield" line vs Panzer or Black Aces there is no comparison on engineering, and a fair spread on the quality of materials and workmanship.
I do think quality control is more hit and miss in guns with little support services. Dealing with Panzer support has been a negative experience in my limited attempts. As a machinist, I do most of my own repair unless something has a catastrophic failure. Years ago I saw a post that said "These are Turkish, so always buy one to shoot and one for spare parts." It isn't as sarcastic as it might sound.
I have enjoyed my Turkish imports shotguns for years, since the early MKA-1919's started coming in, and thousands of rounds through them.
I agree with the sentiment of this video that expectations should be kept lower, but a failure as shown here isn't acceptable.
Good luck, and I hope Panzer will make it good.
My Caniks are all 100% reliable. This panzer not so much.
@@foxf6 They’re also good looking imo.
The quality is all over the place........it's difficult to pick thru !!
Turkish 1911s (Tisas), and wonder 9s( Tisas, Canik) are good to go and great firearms for a low price, but all of the shotguns seem hit or miss
BRO… Buy a LAV mic this audio sucks!
Even if it's not the best, the fact that its 80-90% there for 1/5 of the price is the _real_ talking point, about how overpriced the Benelli M4 actually is.
I'm not a fan of shotguns anyway, but I'd buy this for sure. They just need to fine tune it for maybe $100 more and boom, no point in getting a Benelli M4 save for the name.
I actually think the Benelli is priced right considering you are buying a import combat proven weapon.. 80% reliability is not worth $550. 98-99% reliability take my 2k and I’ll hand this down to my spawn lol.
@@foxf6 You mean your Horkrux
This is slowly becoming fox's channel lol
Good, I need the R&R.
Unfortunately I knew it was headed that direction.
@@peej9939 I got a new mic this week just for you. I see you are still coming around to my videos, I knew you would. thanks for the love BFF.
Gonna be killed for asking this but anyone know the difference between a colt 1911 and a browning high power
Two different guns. Just look similar thanks to JMB's involvement. Different locking systems, very different magazines, and even different calibers most of the time (.45 vs 9mm)
Never rely on strangers for factual information, especially strangers on the internet. Do your own research.
@@85November especially on Tinder
@@85November Caveat: Misha is not a stranger to anyone or guns of historical importance.
@@jackjohnson291 You didn't ask MIsha. You asked the internet to do research for you. Now, think for yourself, where would one find information on two of the most popular pistols ever designed? Hint: It's called reading and looking at diagrams.
Those turkey shotguns are just junk not the same as a canik pistol , mine had the worse machining I've ever seen , Sharp edges everywhere and only ran expensive shells and felt like it would explode every shot , traded it in for a USA made 590 Mossberg after my experience with Turkish made shotguns I bought a POF MP5 & SBR'd it , I won't buy Turkish made stuff anymore lol
Fake
Boring boring!!!!!!
Mischa should be ashamed of this video. the audio is bad the logic is bad i know it’s fox that’s spouting out the lies here but to me it just sounds like loyalist elitism and justification of a expensive purchase something I expected none of from Mischa. Their has been many positive attitudes on the panzer arms m4 the manual has clearly stated the gun must be cleaned before use and it seems as though a lot of people failed to read that part. I’d love to see fox pick apart that ptr44 you had since you know it is just a clone as is the countless zenith ptr century arms mp5s floating all over the country no one bats an eye there but god forbid the benelli m4 clones are good we can’t have that! Again Mischa this is embarrassing for your channel to have this kid come and put his elitism on the channel. This isn’t James reeves or demolition ranch here
I have several guns that are clones, including my POF MP5s that are amazing. But this gun truly sucked. Could just be a 1 off lemon. Either way customer service was terrible and my experience with this gun was to. Sorry for the audio I’ve since fixed that.
Is your microphone a can with a string?
@panzerarms 👀👀