Voynich - a provisional, partial decoding of the Voynich script
Vložit
- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- This video presents my research into the script and language of the Voynich manuscript in an informal way. Please go to my website - stephenbax.net for the fully argued article about it (stephenbax.net/?page_id=11) and also to give me your feedback and comments.
Thanks, Stephen Bax
Rest in peace, Dr. Stephen Bax! 1960-2017
How sad
@@jaxdreaming Yes, indeed.
🙏 😔 great man indeed.
Congratulations on your breakthrough, Dr. Bax! This was absolutely fascinating. I look forward to following your work and seeing it's progression.
Very interesting with clear and easy to follow explanations.It's very exciting to think more might be revealed. Thank you for your research.
not really Tina. If Dr.Bax is not interested in the great Glagolitic alphabet which have less mysteries than the other languages this doesnt make it simple and not attractive! Im talking today on cyrilic and im proud that it is invented by TWO Brothers Saints Cyril and Methodiu. I learn this in first grade. 41:42 Its a shame that people are talking like this and they BELIEVE in this in their videos.
Emilian Zaharinov Sorry Emilian, I didn't get what you mean exactly.
this is my 2nd comment on this video and there is a connection to my 1st one. I didnt mentioned that. I beleive you will read it.
@@EmilianZaharinov
are you saying it is Cyrillic?
This is the coolest 45 minutes of academia I have sat through since my college intro courses. Carry on, Baxiana Jones!
Well, that is the coolest comment I have ever received on a lecture! Thanks a lot!. BJ
Thanks for all your feedback - the best news is that I'm bigger than Justin Bieber :-) I suppose I'll also be better looking than Kylie Minogue if I study harder! Thanks again
Susan Smith In fact I wouldn't deny what you say..... not impossible at all :-) The problem is to prove it!
Stephen Bax How about Kurdistan and Kurdish. I am a civil engineer but subject took my attention and I watched the whole video. It is great work. Thanks
Besiktas London Yes, interesting because of its Persian and Arabic links, but how to prove it?
Susan Smith The ink has been analysed, and has nothing inconsistent with a 15th century date, along with the carbon dating! Thanks for your supportive comments.
Susan Smith
If you suspect Armenian, or something related, let's provide the sound of a few sentences based on the alphabet Stephen Bax has proposed, and have an Armenian-speaker hear it. I know at least one Armenian-speaker.
Georgian has also been proposed. Both are existing spoken languages.
It could have come from somewhere along the Silk Road, check the languages spoken along the silk road and see where does this language most closely resemble a language spoken today or that was known to have been spoken.
Also, could we list languages that were once spoken along the silk road but disappeared? The language of the Khazars, for instance.
The Silk Road is the road to solving the mystery of the language because the words identified so-far by Stephen Bax seem to come from there.
en.unesco.org/silkroad/themes/languages
This is really fascinating, Dr. Bax. Thank you for working so diligently to unravel this mysterious manuscript!
Stephen Bax probably came closest to deciphering this enigma of a book. Sad that he passed away.
Crap i just asked him to keep up the good work. Dang.
I wonder if someone (another professor or something) has continued his work. Would be exciting to follow
Never thought I'd see this solved in my lifetime. Thank you!
I've always loved the voynich manuscript and the fantastic mystery of it. Based on a hunch I always thought it was a gypsy text. This would explain the lost nature of the language, the foreign nature of the botany depicted, and the appearance of the document seemingly out of place in Europe.
Dave Champion , Volder Z seems to have proven your hunch, check part 2 of his video # Volder Z - voynich
I like that you actually shared this with everyone :)
********Stephen Bax passed away suddenly and too soon, on the 22nd November 2017********
The book is written in old Turkish and has been undoubtedly decoded, watch
czcams.com/video/p6keMgLmFEk/video.html
@@TheGuitarmanrh It has not been decoded and it is not in Turkish. Plus that does not seem an appropriate response to his death.
@@jakecross4628
Is this video about the book? Or is it about the death of Stephen Bax?
My comment is clearly about the book, and I don't even know who Stephen Bax is!!
@@TheGuitarmanrh The video is by Stephen Bax about his attempt at the decipherment of the Voynich manuscript.
@@jakecross4628 OK, SORRY.
Your argument is very compelling. Hope your colleagues agree!
This is some fascinating material. You really are dedicated and it is a joy to see how you approach this enigma. Thank you!
This is tremendously exciting! I have always held out hope that this beguiling book actually held real meaning within. Thank you for your work.
Its Turkish and has been undoubtedly decoded watch this video, then watch the update from same channel
czcams.com/video/p6keMgLmFEk/video.html
I've been waiting for this for years, wonderful work Dr. Bax!
It is truly amazing what you have discovered so far! Tanks so much for sharing!
solid presentation, easy to follow throughout.
I'm noticing a lot of patterns in the letters as you're identifying them. It almost looks like the shapes of the letters are indicative of the pronunciation. Take the letter K. It's a high letter. The top corners are rounded and the top itself is flat. Which feels a lot like the shape the tongue makes when pronouncing K. The vowels all look rounded, and i might even be inclined to think that your A is actually an U, maybe an O. The letter for UR, again, looks exactly like the shape your tongue makes when pronouncing the sound. Then the letter for CH/X is tall at the back (the tongue lifts at the back of the mouth) and the "squiggle" to the right indicates the air to make the sound. Very interesting analysis you have here.
Cristi Neagu you have cracked it, you deserve a big check
Super interesting!
its a script called syriac, stighty altered en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syriac_alphabet
Sanskrit and phoenician are created based on how we make the sound too 🕉
Magnificent breakthrough. Congratulations Dr. Bax
I don't usually take the time to 'like' or comment on a video but I take exception in this case. This was brilliant.
This is so cool. Seeing this made my day.
Thank you so much for posting this. I have long had an interest in this manuscript and have read about some of the work done on the deciphering. I applaud all the hard work you and your colleagues have put into this. Good Luck! It sounds like you are all headed in the right direction.
Thanks
I watched the whole video. I'm a chessplayer myself and I should say I was impressed by the amount of knowledge you have, and it's backed my heavy working. This is just impressive
Thanks, very kind :-)
Nice.
Please continue with this research...I have been hoping for years someone like you would come along.Well Done You!!!
Hi there, great video. You mentioned when you googled Kaur at 27:59 it turned out to be an indian herb. When you were looking at the coriander the word you came up with was Dana or Dhana. Dhana is another indian herb we use, also know as coriander. Hope this helps a bit
Chen Masters +
I watched a video yesterday about the Voynich manuscript, and certain experts were arguing that the text didn't look like a proper language. I found their arguments utterly unconvincing, especially as they seemed to refer only to European languages. I have had some involvement with fairly obscure languages in the course of my career as a bookseller, and I am well aware that human languages exhibit great variety and astonishing flexibility, not to mention economy. I find it implausible that an unknown text of the size of Voynich with its (I believe) 30+ characters could be dismissed linguistically. Your video confirms my suspicion that the conclusion of the 'experts' in the other video was too hasty. Your arguments seem to have merit, although I think a successful decoding of the other plants would be required to prove your case. There is every reason to speculate that this is a real alphabet of a near Eastern language, which has simply become extinct.
+Al Gray I'm pleased to say we are in agreement! Thanks.
The most thoughtful, humble & sober explanation that I’ve come across to date.
Maybe so but the book is actually been written in a form of old Turkish! And on this short video there is even a translation in English of a whole page! Watch
czcams.com/video/p6keMgLmFEk/video.html
I was giddy too when you found the connection between your findings and those of Panda. Truely outstanding research!
This is really cool, I'm super interested in archeology and things like that and when I started this video I watched the whole thing through. It was really interesting, and I think that all of the examples you gave make sense, I'm just a highschool student though so I'm not sure my opinion means anything, but this video has inspired me to continue looking into studying for a career related to this type of work. Thank you for inspiring me😊
I was skeptical at first, but great arguments, and a very understandable presentation for laymen.
Absolutely Brilliant work, Mr. Bax! I'm amazed that so many of the other Voynich researches had missed these fairly obvious (at least to you, and to us now) clues to the script . Best Wishes!
The black cumin picture actually looks like it does in real life (except the leaves) and the flower is nearly the same. Keep up the intriguing work!
Could the mystery end letter simply signify a plural form?
i want this book deciphered before i die!
lol
i can solve it i know what they are doing wrong they are trying to make a language out of something that is not a language instrested
eat your veggies then!
never happen
unfortunately Steven passed away. The world lost a genius!!
Curiosity is a fundamental human characteristic and the reason why we didn't remain sitting in the trees. That's why the Voynich manuscript fascinates so many people (including myself). And you are a role model for what it means to be a scientist: Solving this worlds mysteries by logical thinking and comprehensive knowledge of every aspect of your field. Thank you so much for your great work !
Yes, but unfortunately guesswork and sheer speculation seem much more fun! :-)
Wow! That's awesome! Congratulations Stephen! Well Done!
*scrambles to figure out how to disable the bass*
Sorry... cheap equipment at my end :-(
Stephen Bax Stephen, it's not that bad, in fact, it's not bad at all. I think what's interesting is the history and your findings. Don't worry! :)
a lot of the letters look a lot like sutterline... the very old german style of caligraphy. this is so interesting I just found out about this book and am hooked. :) thanks for your hard work and this vidieo. :)
This video made me happy. Thank you so much for sharing sir!
Please keep on posting updates whenever possible.
Thank you, this was very interesting.Didn't think I would listen(watch) it till the end but I did. Again...thank you for posting this on here.
am thinking that the words ''leaves'' ''root'' ''stem'' flower'' should be used in most of the pages,and should not be hard to figure out, what these are. strange, that no one has ever conclusively, found these out.
Thank you for this presentation! I discovered the existence of this manuscript yesterday.. the magic of CZcams. Found a nice program from the National geographic. I have a strong background in Maths but I would not have used the cryptography algorithms for trying to decipher the manuscript... I would have done like you ! Very smart. Very interesting and promising approach, just like Champollion with "la Pierre de Rosette"... And no worries, nobody will remember Bieber or Minogue in 50 years. Your name will stay in history way longer if you crack the code. Good luck and I hope more researchers will join your team. Cheers. Stephane (I suscribed).
Thanks for your kind words! Who is Bieber again? :-)
Not often I stumble across such a fascinating video, I hope someday there will be a movie about you and your work!
I'm extremely impressed. You've done a fantastic job.
Also in addition to my previous post - while describing the nigella sativa you came up with the word kaur cha. in language gujarati we pronounce it as Cha, rather than Chai. My mom always puts black cumin seeds in it to add spice. There is a perfect link here.
The visuals are literally the same type of artwork as in many of the gujarati books such as the Bhagvadgita. Lord Krsna used to rule a place called Dwarka, a very sacred place in which still exists(most of which is now underwater) - Im sure you already know this. Krsna was an out of world being, he was supernatural and came here using his flying machine known as Garuda. This script may be something to do with this culture. It makes sense since there are so many things are corresponding(the artwork, the names of the plant spices, etc.)
My fist thought of the 'sunflower' was an insect eating plant like the Venus Flytrap.
Molly Denam to me it resembles a dry poppy pod. I am so excited that progress is actually being made on this manuscript.:-)
I believe theyve deciphered that page and by the description, it's similar to the sunflower. Its indo-european, the language.
Good evening, Sir. (It's evening from where I came from). Watched the whole video. Been following the search for Voynich Manuscript's meaning since last year. And you, Sir Stephen, paved the way to break and discover the hidden truth of this long-time mystery. Thank you! I am not a scholar, but a medical student. Keep it up, sir! You're doing a great job! I'm honored to know the partial decodes you made. I hope I get to know more of your discoveries, specifically about Voynich Manuscripts. Bless you sir!
My feeling is that the text in the manuscript, what looks like words, is syllables.
Every page has this “word-theme” that mutates ad nauseum keeping a part the same.
The structure thus, doesn’t feel like language structure. But if I say: take “ture” (from structure) as a “theme word for a page”, then say “turela nture tugure turea gteure” this really start to look like it. I wrote the word “language”. Using the theme word “ture”, then the 🔑 key: ture**, *ture, tu**re, ture*, *t*ure. Adding the letters of “language” instead of the stars. Like, with this example key you can write me a paragraph looking very much structurally like Voynich page, using different keyword for each page. Like a plant name for example. Nice decoding of the names, thanks for vid. Credit this theory to Rosin Fairfield if citing or using. Cheers!
RIP 🙏 🪦
One of the plants near the end when you are finishing your summery and test looks like a poppy plant. Like the little bulbs that end after it blooms. They look kinda like that. Though I am just a high school grad so I don't know.
I've never been interested in linguistics but this was clear, engaging and utterly fascinating. Look forward to following your progress! A+
Thanks very much for this Stephen. It gave great insight on a "possible" conclusion for the manuscript.
A most absorbing and erudite article, with a real insight into this mysterious manuscript!
I wondered about the Bohemian origin also. Do you think it could be Hussite? The 1420 date might suggest this, (as does their eventual, cultural extinction) and their departure from the doctrines of the Catholic Church at that time, leaning much more toward the Zodiac perhaps?
The fact that the manuscript was also obtained by Voynich from a Jesuit School may also lean toward this as the Jesuits resumed the traditions of the Pre-Hussites?
+Brad Brassman Thanks - I have never heard this suggestion before, and it is stimulating. However, I can't see any more direct evidence to link it with them. I'll keep it in mind!
+Stephen Bax If Voynich really found it in a Jesuit monastery I think much of the mystery might be solved, tracing it backwards perhaps?
At 22:25, isn't it also possible that this variation could be a result of declension, as in Greek or Latin?
Yes indeed...... one possibility
Really exciting breakthrough! I have been following this intriguing story for years and am looking forward to your future findings! Thank you Stephen!
Thank you for your interest. My website stephenbax.net is the place to follow it!
Very interesting approach. Really a pleasure to listen your analytical process and thoughts at the time.
Over the last year since I wrote my last comments, I have seen more and more research pointing at a linguistic origin in India - Pakistan. But a language spoken prior to Babar's conquest, it is not modern Urdu/Hindi. So the people who spoke that language left the region before the conquest.
You spotted Persian and Arabic words. The people who spoke the language traveled westward. The book is written in Europe. they had arrived to Europe in the late Middle Ages. It is not difficult the point of the most obvious conclusion: this is for gotten written language of the Gypsy Roma people. It remains to be tested with modern Roma speakers, adapting the pronunciation it's medieval version.
Once the text is fully translated, the comparison of belief system could be established between the magic and astrological beliefs of modern gypsies who kept only an oral tradition for centuries, and the belief system and ideas represented in the text of the Voynich Manuscript.
Rafael Rabinovich do you believe there could be any ties to Sanskrit?
Lauren K
It is a language of the Hindus valley, related to Sanskrit, but the script "without the tale" came to what today is Pakistan from the Aramaic influence areas. The language was replaced by Hindi-Urdu after the conquest of Babur.
The people displaced from the area and that ended up in the west are Gypsys, so yes, it is a language related to, or a form of, Sanskrit.
Rafael Rabinovich does it necessarily have to have been written in Europe? Why do you believe it was written in Europe?
Excellent work Stephen. I believe the word char is not black, its rather hair. I will explain why. the letter "o" in "or or" is more to be pronounced as the letter ع in arabic. Now back to the word khar, this will read as "cha عr" arabic word for شعر. This could mean the author is describing the plant tentacles. look for the full meaning for شعر/ شعيرات. The second word "koton" was mistaken for cotton rather its قوت in arabic. meaning the plant is edible, or produce a food source. what do you think? does these two words imply on the two plants found in the book?
Marvin sh , Char means to burn to char-coal (black/coal)
Wow! This is really a step forward in unwrapping the mystery of this book. We still have a long way to go, but this really opens the door to a clear understanding of what this is. Extremely interesting and eye opening. Thank you for posting Dr. Bax. Good luck with the rest of your research. Peace.
You're amazing, beautiful mind you have! Please continue your work on this!
The Indian language parallels are very interesting. I wonder if this manuscript was written by a Gypsy.
That's exactly what I was thinking. It would also explain why it's culturally European, and why the authors didn't just use a European script.
SergeiAndropov The thought had crossed my mind, I must say. It would be REALLY interesting if it had a Romani element!
Especially as Bohemia crops up often!
That does look more like a cannabis plant. Look how the stems and leaves are clearly articulated in the diagram and the juniper leaves do not come from stems like in the drawing.
Such an amazing and wonderful offering, thank you for sharing in detail. For those of us who've long been intrigued, it feels like such a surprise to imagine we may live to see some of this manuscripts secrets revealed in the near future. Thank you for the great work! Amazing and inspiring!
Your work is a bit like time travel. Fascinating. Thanks for putting together such a clear introduction to your excellent work. I look forward to reading the full translation one day.
Audio really is waaaay too loud, clipping and boomy T__T
Sorry - um, turn the sound down? :-)
Stephen Bax the input/mic level during recording needs to be low enough to stop the volume going above the top of the input meter (clipping) and also then the volume of the audio output needs to be low enough to stop clipping inside the video editor and when you output the final file.
if you recorded the audio with the level too high to begin with, there isn't much you can do since the signal is already distorted.
Stephen Bax I have sent you a longer message in your INBOX 16r aloe vera,Aloe indica ?ladys in green gloop healing ,and burns ++++ > :+)
***** Thank you for sharing this:+) Yes me to agree,plants and medicine free 4 all.This will be cracked ,he is on right track ,i believe Dr VAX ! .Plate in script f15v 16r Clue the 2 words similar ,with others to .Aloe indica /indian hemp indica ..These plates 15v dope seed /male flower 16r ?ALOE
***** Hopefully he'll continue to make great progress and do more videos in the future. I see comments, especially like the ones from ura soul as meant to help him in a field which isn't his specialty. Stephen Bax if you want to take the next step in making the audio sound better, search for "removing white noise" and your audio-editing tool. Audacity is a popular free tool if you don't already have one.
--Beth
Instead of trying to figure out what the words mean, put your energy into figuring out what the plants mean.
D. C. O'Hagarty
USA
Great research... watched with great interest. And will be looking forward to be deciphered.
This is enormously interesting. I first read about the Voynich a few years ago, and was fascinated by it. Ever since reading Tolkien as a child I've been obsessed with languages and their cultural significance -- and it's utterly thrilling to see someone cutting into this formerly impenetrable script, and word by word (or phoneme by phoneme) making their way through to some new understanding. Please keep us updated Dr. Bax, your work is profound and thoroughly entertaining.
Thanks - any updates will be posted on my website stephenbax.net
It's the language of Old Valyria!
Valar morghulis!
What do you think of the Turkish family work?
I think he would reckon they're working on the right lines.
Your is the best explanation I have seen so far.
Wow. Brilliant, very compelling arguments. Can't imagine that this is not a great first step in deciphering
Hmm, this was actually the first video about this subject that made sense to me.
A well thought out and well presented presentation.
I have been fascinated by the Voynich manuscript for a long time.
I have one big question: Are any Creative Writers involved in the serious work on the document?
Thanks - not that I know of!
At least we don't have to worry about any further cultural extinctions, the NSA will keep everything recorded so they don't need later people to decode it again...
Surely, SURELY you realize how contrived it is to complain about the NSA on this video, right? How pointlessly hard you just tried to make the two things relevant to one another, just to complain about something in the most random possible place?
Why don't you go find a video about politics to whine about politics? What you just smeared on this comment section is like finding a video about hamsters and then posting about religious rights. Please don't leave your garbage lying around for no reason.
Jonathan Wojcik
Relax, seriously complaining about my more light hearted complaining isn't going to make it any better, so maybe you should take you own advice and look for other comments to complain about... and try to decode jokes, you surely seem to have trouble to identify those.
Drudenfusz It's Ok, I chuckled at least !
Some people take comments so seriously...
Such a fascinating video, great work!
i'm just a random person finding out about this manuscript and this is really cool as I became really interested in it. you're work is amazing!
Give me a bottle of vodka and 6 pack of beer and I'll crack the Voynich code in 20 minutes ! GUARANTEED !
Nick Hersheys hot potatoes
here hold my beer
it's like his microphone is made of peaking
Yep, sorry. I'm a poor humble academic...
Really interesting! Great job on your decoding!
good work! held my attention all through. not many professors can keep me engaged for that that long. eagerly anticipating the next instalment!
I've had a thought floating around for a while, that this was written by a woman teaching her child/children. Maybe the author was passing this knowledge to the next generation in making this manuscript. Allowing her child to help illustrate it would explain the childish figures and small discrepencies. If she was forbidden to have such knowledge that would account for the encoding. Just a thought. (-Jaclyn Steinmacher. I'm logged into my son's CZcams)
Doesn't seem too probable, because it was made by a group of people, so not one woman.
It is more likely that the artist didn't see the plants with his own eyes. He might have copied the drawings from existing drawings. Which would also make it a little inaccurate...
I must have missed him saying it was written by more than one person.
James Cooper
There have been many books written on the manuscript; one prevailing theory is that there were at least two authors if not 3 or more. There might be some evidence to support that in the penmanship habits found throughout the book but it's far from definitive.
The style of painting / drawing plants and so on at that age was very dramatic. Hence the child like drawings. At that time you over dramatized some features of a plant in paintings, for various reasons. Would strongly recommend people investigating the manuscript just a little bit before all these questions which are easily answered in many of the available documentaries about it.
I do not subscribe to any religious organization, so please don't misunderstand. My question is purely curiosity. Could this manuscript have any connection to the book of Enoch? There is reference to specifically women being taught certain things about plants, splitting plants and other such references. I'm not suggestions that this is a book written by a women seduced by a fallen angel or any such thing. My question is, is it possible that someone read the book of Enoch and then created a mysterious manuscript as an exploration or study? Not as a joke, which I don't believe this is, but as study possibility by someone who might of believed in the book of Enoch. I know that anyone who practiced or studied any form of alchemy did so at a great risk to their own life and would often write in code to protect themselves. If an alchemist believed in the book of Enoch (or any similar book, this one being only my example), would it be possible that this is a study of alchemy based on this or some other text that might support research in deciphering this particular text?
Fascinating. I hope you continue to make progress.
Dr. Bax, I was very impressed by your methodical and logical approach. The book probably will not reveal any new knowledge, but at least one day we will know what it really says!
1:41 That one on the right looks like weed.
nakata023 not really
Thank you for the amazing presentation in such way
Thank you for your research and posting this.
why is this video underated, this is one of the best solvings
Felicitaciones por su idea, Profesor Bax
Very impressive work! Especially after testing successfully with the Kaur baq plant. I look forward to seeing some more on your website and hopefully more breakthroughs to come in the future also! Thank you
Great stuff. I hope the work continues. Very cogent arguments all around.
Tx!
Wow! Absolutely fascinating, and incredibly modest on Stephen's part there I think. I have been fascinated with this manuscript for over 20 years as was my Mother and we would often discuss it when she was alive. I always believed it wasn't a hoax and to me, it resembles some kind of herbal healing and possibly some kind of Middle Eastern astrological spell book for want of a better explanation; an all round healing system using herbs, astrology etc. so bang on point there with what I think is a very common sense, logical, methodical way of looking at this manuscript. I always wondered why it was being studied by code breakers rather than language experts. Fantastic job Mr Bax.
That was a fascinating presentation.
You're brilliant man Sir, I'm looking forward to see you succeed. My best wishes to you!
Professor Bax = the rosetta stone of the VM in my humble opinion you logic is not far fetched it is sound and not whimsical and considering your pedigree in the field i think you are on to something here and it is HUGE!
I remember years ago seeing something about this on TV, and for some reason yesterday I was thinking about it. SO I googled it to see if anyone had translated it yet and I found this.
I'm really amazed here. I say this with absolutely no offence to your work or anything, but how you went about this seems like such a simple idea, I can't believe no one ever thought of it.
I hope we can see more of this soon, I know I'm a few years late but you did a fantastic job.
Well, the idea might be a simple one, but actually investigating the manuscript and working things out is not so easy. I can show you the scars one day, if you like. But remember - my ideas are only a suggestion and need a lot more work if they are to corroborated.
Very intriguing!! Great work!!
This is just fascinating.
I'm loving this. The oror business with a letter in front or a phrase afterward reminds me of Russian, in which even personal names can change endings.
I don't know if anyone's commented about this...but when you discuss 'cotton' at 38:03, the accompanying picture, while it doesn't look like what we imagine cotton plants (i.e., the puffy white ball) to look like, the picture does look like it could be a representation of a flowering cotton plant. If you google image search "cotton flower", there are some striking similarities.
Anyway this was really educational and amazing. Thanks!
BoxStudioExecutive agreed