The Voynich Manuscript Owners - Deep Dive
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- čas přidán 28. 10. 2019
- In this inaugural episode, I ramble on about a few points left over from the Voynich manuscript video, then go into full deep dive mode on its strange cast of owners.
Link to the original episode:
• The Voynich Manuscript
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Intro music 'Pain' by Lucas King. You can find it on his channel here:
• Pain | Orchestral Version
youre a saint for withholding the ads. i fall asleep to these all the time. excellent work man
Real respectful to the work, falling asleep to them and all...
@@elaxter haha I was going to say the same thing.
As a joke.
Hey some say you do listen and understand in your sleep.
@@elaxter
I listen to many videos several times - at least once while going to sleep. It's a real thing. Only good ones make it into my sleep list. I don't want junk going into my brain while sleeping.
@@jellymop Yes.
@@elaxter "respect the work" you're joking right? Why would you care how anyone consumes any content?
The small differences in the symbolic depictions in the Zodiac might actually give a small clue to the language of the author of the Voynich manuscript, as it can reflect the names of these signs in a specific language or even a specific time and location (as language and knowledge changes). There are actually different translations of the Zodiac signs in different languages, who by themselves create a folk-understanding how people would interpret them
In Swedish the Zodiac sign and constellation "Cancer" is called "the crayfish" ("kräftan"). This is a mistranslation but an understandable one, as the Latin word "cancer" can refer to several different types of crustaceans - but the Zodiac sign does really signify a crab (since antiquity). But the drawings in the VM could very well be a couple of crayfish.
The same with the Sagittarius - it's called "the shooter" ("skytten") in Swedish and is thus not describing a mythological creature but only a non-descript (presumed human) shooter. So if we pretend the author of the VM was a native Swedish speaker with a local folk-understanding of these signs, these alterations make sense. The shooter is simply understood as a human shooter and cancer is crayfish. (If we supposed the author was Finnish, the sagittarius would be called "the archer" so there wouldn't be any crossbow).
I don't believe the author was Swedish as we wouldn't have that kind of talent back then. But these words for zodiac signs are also found other European languages, such as Czech: where "cancer" is "rak" - "the crayfish", and Sagittarius is "the shooter" (Střelec).
And there might be others which I don't know but Czech for me is a pretty hot contender as the trail begins in Bohemia. (If the word "crayfish" could understood as a plural in a language I'd say it is a pretty hot lead - I don't know if it is possible in Czech though). Note that it only partially matches in German where Sagittarius is called "the shooter", but Cancer is called "the crab". It needs to be explored further.
Great comment.
It's the same in serbian. Cancer= рак (rak) which means crab but can also refer to crayfish and sagittarius= стрелац (strelac) the shooter, the archer. I don't think it's likely to be linked to the Serbian language but it's fun seeing the similarities with Czech
Svenska på den tiden var helt olik den svenska vi pratar idag dock
in hungarian is also rak with an accent on the a
@@Alvarezplik im late but just wanted to correct you on the czech comment - "rakovina" is the disease cancer, but cancer the animal is "rak"
I have the highest compliment I can think of for your talent as a presenter. I have lived my entire life with extreme ADHD and every side effect that comes with it. Dyslexia ~ has kept me from learning. I was held back in elementary for my lack of reading prowess. But now we have CZcams! and brilliant people like you who share their knowledge with the world. Now I am learning! You can hold the attention of someone who was regarded as stupid and useless for half a century, because there were too many words to read. Thanx to teachers like you I have a passion for history. But you especially have a magical voice that captures and keeps my interest in what you’re teaching. Usually my brain 🧠 shuts down and I go into a dark shut down for a bit. I can see and feel it’s weight as it covers over me. Now I’ve found you and I’m learning. you’ve even inspired me to do what I can to improve my reading. Sadly I can still get the heavy dark fog but I can shake it off now. Thank you, BRAVO 👏 with my greatest respect and affection, love from Calgary Alberta CANADA 🇨🇦 🥰
We join you in your good fortune to be living in these times when new ways of learning are coming along! It really is great fun!
I am having a similar issue--having studied and taught university for ages, and just being an avid reader, my eyes have given out on me! I truly appreciate all the reference material set forth in these podcasts and the visuals are particularly exciting! I must comment on the COMPLETELY WRONG idea that anyone, especially a scholar, could theorized DaVinci would ever place his name and reputation on such a simplistic work. The drawings look more like those done by Dr. Seuss with a perverse obsession of the female body (maybe I could write a text in an "after" Dr. Seuss fashion!). DaVinci would never pen such a simplistic array! And, being a leftie, writing mirror image is normal/easy for us. You can tell the difference in the pen-strokes of DaVinci's work compared to those in the manuscript. DaVinci starts from the right and writes to the left--the normal way for lefties to write--mirror image without a flaw. The VC is written from left to right. I must comment on the impressive penmanship of all these works-the lost art of a brilliant mind proud of the thoughts/wisdom proffered!
I have ADHD too and I use my kindle on a really large font to help me read. I struggle with physical books because I need the font to be massive so I don’t get distracted by the other sentences on the page!
"Nobody would spend such a large amount of money on parchment and not use it till after they have died"
Me an artist: looks nervously at the hundreds of dollars worth of empty fine paper sketchbooks in the corner of my studio.
Right, but imagine if it wasn't hundreds of dollars worth of sketchbooks, but more like hundreds upon hundreds of dollars per PAGE of each sketchbook...
@@EmeraldLavigne not all times are a good time to make a point. Just seemed a bit unnecessary tbh.
@@jasonmoore7223 it's actually the perfect time to point it out. It's a fine joke and all but ensuring people don't buy the joke as truth with a benign clarifying comment is perfectly fine.
I agree, the more valuable the resource, the more hesitant you are not to squander it on anything substandard.
Right?!
To anyone waiting for more A History of Britain, its still coming. I threw this together in a few days as a break from writing the next script, hopefully I should have something in November.
You're insane. Brilliant work man. Peace and love from Texas pardner!
@18:23 Rudolph. "Never has a man through such actions saved the lives of so many." Not only did he save lives, due to the thick fog, the presents would never have been delivered on time, if it wasn't for him.
Yay!! Can't wait-- I was going crazy trying to find the next episode from 600 BC+ thinking you must have made it already.
@@bryanmatthews1540 It's coming in about 30 years. Thankfully I'll be dead.
The Histocrat yes please more History Of Britain! -an amazing series!!
holy shit. thats a long video.
I love it.
@@jimbodriver1015 hahahaha, whenever I can't fall asleep I put on McKenna. It's better than any white noise, or "relaxation" sounds.
All fucking HABSBURGER's
Dae Dae Thomas No way could I relax listening to that fucking nerd’s voice prattle on for hours
Make these several hours long; I'll have no complaints!
yurisuika Terrance McKenna does a good lecture on this topic too.
Agreed, I'll accept Dan Carlin lengths. History is worth deeeeep dives.
I agree, and no script? He don't need one! :)
I love that so many of us find your voices so soothing, and that you've become a part of many nightly routines! Please don't think for a second that we don't appreciate the content!😅 We go back amd listen to them throughout the day as well and everything is SO informative and educational. Thank you both for your dedication and work!
lol no joke
"LEFTOVER BITS", twice as long as the original video lol. Great job dude, some of the most thorough research on this manuscript probably to date.
I've been bingeing these while I work at a manufacturing job, I really appreciate these. They keep my mind working wile I do my relatively mindless job.
Me as well....Thanks for the people making this type of video!
I apologise in advance for my sins against the German language.
I didn't mind a few chuckles while watching this VERY interesting video. ;)
Eh, it's all flew flam anyway.
Can u make this in
You should consider left handed people have only one way to write in fluid motion without smearing the ink and that is mirror writing! Da Vinci was left handed! Excuse my bad grammar... i´m German :P
The Histocrat Ah, but your sins pale by comparison with the Germans' sins, ja?
I am so grateful to you for taking the time to do this video. Content like this isn't put together in an afternoon - even the shortest of presentations can take days. You did an excellent job with this fascinating subject!! Might I dare to suggest you make some based on other mysterious books such as the Rohonc Codex? Thank you for all that you do sir.
The picture of the "oak", reminds me of walking through the woods. The trees would be covered in wisteria, huge vines.
I was thinking that the grape like clusters were just clusters of acorns.
@@nomdeplume5446 or even wild grape vines
Or it's just a german oak Quercus Robur.
It looks very similar.
images.app.goo.gl/GyHHBVTFWHJnEb9S8
@@TheElrondo definitely does. Good eye
Love the longer projects! Thank you!
Very grateful to you for such a terrific intro to Kircher. It was a delight to me.
As someone else said, I also fall asleep to these, in the most respectful way possible. Amazing videos.
I thoroughly enjoyed every minute of this, and the previous Voynich Manuscript video. I could easily listen to you talk about it for another three hours!
Good one! I love the longer, in depth vid!!! It seems I just get into a vid and then they end. How does one learn that much from a ten minute vid! Great job!
Fantastic video, I loved it ! And I didn't mind it was long, your voice is so pleasant. Thank you for all the hard work!
I don't think that green for the water is actually meant to be green. It looks like blue that's oxidized into a green, as some spots are more blue than others.
Yes I think its not a stretch to theorise its just meant to be water.
See, I was thinking that too, but aren't there some things that they ACTUALLY painted blue? Like, some of the flowers or something like that?
@@EmeraldLavigne What do you mean?
@@ragingdevi in the manuscript. there is blue pigment that stayed blue. is what the meant.
Your in my top 3 channels . Keep exploring man thanks appreciate the work
You have great videos, keep up the good work! And your voice is perfect for narrating stuff like this.
I cant wait to hear this. 🤗 Thank you so much!
Very well done. Having read quite a bit about the Voynich manuscript over the years, the most interesting part is the cast of characters--John Dee, Horiciky, Barshius, Marci, and of course, Kircher.
Watched both Voynch manuscript videos today. Excellent presentations. Thank you
Interesting and well-explained. Thank you for showing us your process and insights.
This is really really really cool! I’m so happy you worked on this! You are the best. Thanks 🙏 Thanks 😊
Bronze Age collapse got me through my Dad’s illness and eventual passing. I was able to sleep (and learn) because of you. ❤❤❤❤
Your Voynich videos are wonderful companions to the ones the Yale researchers have posted. I really appreciate this channel.
So glad this was the first video I watched of yours!
Lovely stuff. Keep up the great work!
New sub here. Love the lack of ads. I hope you get great sponsors.
Thanks!
love love love the long videos thank you.
Awesome awesome!! I'm just gonna have to like now and watch later!! And then watch again and again!! Love your shows!!
I really enjoyed this, the first one, and the Bronze Age Collapse one.
These kind of historical mysteries are so fascinating.
great video and documentary! really well put together!
I have been fascinated with this manuscript for quite som time. Good to find someone who has more knowledge about it.
I'm curious, what do you think the purpose is? Old family remedies?
Great epilogue. Many thanks!
Really enjoyed this. Keep up the amazing work 👍
Well that runtime means I'm watching this over the weekend cannot wait to have time for it.
Well done. I can't wait to hear your reaction to the inevitable translation of the voynich manuscript.
Excellent stuff, just discovered your channel, great work.
Came for spooky book, stayed for 17th century Austrian session laws
this was fun and informative to watch, thank you
Great stuff. Love your work. More please. :)
I can listen you talk all day. Really held my attention through the whole video.
Yey for new vlog. The last one KILLED IT.
A word on the "oak tree with grapes"
Acorns are green while on the tree, like in that picture, and turn brown before dropping, which seems to be shown in there as well.
Just a thought.
Yeah, I was gonna say that idk maybe they just didn't have brown pigment, but I think that makes a lot more sense.
absolutely incredible video. you might just be one of the best creators on youtube - if only all my university lectures were this engrossing.
Love this , mysteries are great and the history of them, well done.
An extra hour of this craziness?! OH YEAH BABY
just wonderful work
What if, after all this time, the voynich manuscript is simply a really really old science fiction novel and not meant to represent reality of any sort at all?
humanity’s first conlang lol
This is the greatest channel I’ve ever found
Love your work keep it up
Love the deep dive! I can't count how many times I've watched it! I'm looking forward to more!
I genuinely love everything you put out. Keep up the great work.
Why Da Vinci is not the author:
The pen-and-ink drawings and the crude painting are actually of the same level of skill, so likely the same person. That is because neither displays formal training, rather a lack of training. These drawings reveal the work of a complete, non-trained amateur with access to the appropriate supplies to produce the manuscript (which leads credence to the idea that the parchment was produced earlier in time and stored). Compare Da Vinci's illustrations with wrapping texts -- and, there is no similarity in style. The difference is stark.
You are ignoring the possibility that the "amateurishness" was quite deliberate to confuse the "reader"
Excellent delivery
Thank you for your thorough and sympathetic yet fair coverage of Athanasius Kircher. At three moments I thought, "Aha!", as something I knew snicked into place - Kessler, animicules, and Egyptian obelisks in Europe. Very satisfying, thank you.
Great video I’m a new fan! Great job
I'm not sure it came up in your research but parchment didn't actually have to sit idle for decades before the use in the manuscript. Palimpsest is the practice of scraping/washing off old writing so it could be reused and was rather common. I'm not sure how common it was in the 15th century but it was widely practiced before the 11th century.
But with modern analysis, one would know if it is scraped parchment or one use, no?
@@MrFrenchfanfan Not with youtube analysis. If the provenance was actually shown, none of these charlatans would have anything to do. They'd have to play video games 100 percent of their lives, instead of 90.
@@tranzco1173 huh?
Guy, you're the coolest.
I love your style of historical thoroughness.
This is my favorite and well researched documentary to the VM. Leaving out every conspiracy theory.
Love this! So interesting
Fabulous! Great video, too. 👍
Really interesting video enjoyed watching it
Its seems to me that in order to decipher this we need more than the plants, astrology & other healing issues. This is cultural context and is a start. We need to determine the script type as well as the language. A biscript would be very convenient too. The Voynich Manuscript is the only item we have. All available writings combined designate a "corpus". One book is too small a corpus. These 5 pillars of decipherment must be met according to linguists. See Michael Coe or Marc Zender for more of this. These two are world leaders on this subject. Interesting stuff.
Some of these stories deserve to be made into films. Especially Athanasius Kircher.
Risible is the suggestion that Leonardo of Vinci created the manuscript. Anyone who has ever so much as glanced at Leonardo's sketchbooks would never attribute the crude doodles of the VM to him.
That theory is no less than an insult to Da Vinci 🤦🏻♂️ Dan Brown's crap really did numbers on the conspiratory minds.
Look forward to the extended Bronze Age collapse too.
Great work, mate. 🏆💙😃☕
This is amazing. ♥️
Could it be possible the “women” in the green liquid are actually the writer trying to describe the breakdown of the digestive tract and this is an intestine tract where the “women” represent some living thing the writer knew broke down food but didn’t understand gut flora, hood bacteria etc. This might fit with the medicinal theme of the book
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing, allegories of the humours, or whatever understanding of actual microorganisms they might have had (or that this doctor might have thought up independently?)
The water purification thing, and the fact that I've never seen that theory before, leads me to think that something in the illustrations does indicate that these are literal baths, but...
Great video.
So interesting, thanks!!
14:33 that's ovaries, with the Fallopian tube, right? i mean, imagine a medieval dude drawing what he perceives to be ovaries, that would be it. Btw, fascinating documentary, why have i not seen your channel before??
I believe these to be some another water purification equipment peace. I dont think they were aware enough to know they existed at all. I have some papers at home about female anatomy seem by medieval men, so I can check that if you are interested, yet I dont deem it likely. They thought the womb travels around the body for gods sake lmao Im not throwing away the idea, just poiting out it is not as likely.
@@dustdust9508 They definitely did know about ovaries. People have been dissecting people since time immemorial. Many, such as Leonardo daVinci made drawings on the female anatomy, including ovaries, too. And Nicolaus of Salerno directly described ovaries in the 11th century. They just did not really know what function they had.
@@noel_21 Thanks!!! I didnt actually consider they could associate the presence of ovaries with femininity but like.... Hey, they couldnt find those in men, haha! My immediate thought, well it was not exactly in da vincis times... Yet, it doesnt really matter. As with sunflowers - the knowledge is there somewhere, always. Not necessarily in the plain sight! Thanks for the insight once again
@@dustdust9508 No problem man. I actually opened my dusty history books for once because of your comment. I should thank you lol
If this was anatomical information during the time when autopsy was illegal, that would be a good reason why it is written in a code...
Bravo do your channel as you like we will be here regardless awaiting and appreciating!
Dont worry about the short attention span small brains....
I truly wish I could love this many times. What I can do is tell the people I know about it.
always a pleasure to watch your well presented and intersting videos which are very much appreciated no matter the length
u deserved my notification bell good syer
Great video, I really liked the biographic about Athanasius Kircher.
Is it possible the manuscript was one of those non-sense ciphers you mentioned, sent to Kircher as a prank? Maybe Kircher was on to the prank by the time he received it and it was set aside and it somehow got misplaced, misfiled, fell through the cracks and eventually integrated into his, I’m sure, vast library, it’s initial purpose eventually forgotten and mistaken for a legitimate codex or cipher? But I’m just now remembering, there was correspondence btwn Kircher and the previous owner, so perhaps not...
Given how history paints Kircher, it seems plausible that VM was a crude prop put together as part of an elaborate hoax to get Kircher to "translate it" and then show him up as a pseudo intellectual fraud. The correspondence trying to get Kircher to take the bait seems insincere and full of cloying praise. One can only imagine what his colleagues, contemporaries, and rivals thought of him.
On the other hand, I'm not convinced that the Kircher correspondence long used as provenance refers to the VM and not some other work.
Watching this video, this really jumped out at me as a distinct possibility, and probably the theory that feels most likely to me.
Yeah, the notion that so many over so many years have been racking their brains over this enigma and that it turns out it was a hoax along kinda makes me chuckle a little.
This video is awesome. Even for a unscripted quicker to make video. It sounds great and has a surprising amount of cohesion.
Best way to keep a secret code is to draw out of context pictures on it. In this case Naked women and constellation drawings are doing its job to protect the coded text.
My conjecture, based on nothing other than knowing what they're like, is that a child got their hands on it and coloured in all the illustrations.
Not impossible but nothing but a guess. The technique is a bit sloppy but it still seems somewhat deliberate and if it was done by a child it would have to be a very patient and diligent child.
9:17 those are grapes. Different varieties of grapes have different leaves. Some look incredibly similar to oak leaves. Some, like Nebbiolo and Cabernet Sauvignon have weird, lobed leaves similar to the illustration. Esp the coloring of the berries: red and blue.
10:58 is a cornflower. Showy blue flowers with the strange bulb-like growth before the flower.
Also can’t each of these illustrations be an amalgamation of the plant’s growing process? That would explain why so many have both buds/seeds/fruits/flowers at the same time. The artist put all the phases of growth and reproduction of the plant on one illustration. So if a plant only bears buds in spring, but flowers in summer…the artist added all these stages in one painting. It cuts down on the number of illustrations needed to fully describe the plant and it’s reproductive phases.
Very good observation, I agree with you, saves space, considering the cost of producing the manuscript, cost in terms of time and materials.
Don't give up. Your content inspired me to buy the manuscript. I'll let you know when I got it figured. 😆
At 12:33 it’s clearly a calendar with the month “abiral” (April) written under the goat. Duh
Thank You!
would love to hear a video purely on Kircher
9:15 maybe not am oak tree but some kind of black walnut,pecan, or a chestnut tree?
Ah yes, the good old Leonardo. Author of Turin shrowd (cuz it's a beardy guy, obviously), mysterious Mona Lisa (who had rotten teeth, dislocated joints of her fingers, also it's a slef-portrait, also is a sign of him having a Qucik eye - all of those theories are true at once) and now also an author of Voynich manuscript. In that light, don't forget to mention he also built the great Pyramid, invented gunpowder, projected Eiffel tower and wrote Beethoven's 9th symphony. There is also a suspiction he was the Zodiac killer...
The Voynich manuscript seems to operate as a kind of strange attractor for people suffering from Dunning-Kruger syndrome.
Excellent
By the way, I don't mind if you made 4 hours long videos. There is another virology podcast I watch and they usually lasts an hour and half to two hours. I watch it in bits. Half hour, then I have breakfast. More half hour and I go tending my plants. And so on. Thank you very much for such an interesting video that I know demands hard work. Cheers.
Regarding the round fruit looking thing on the oak tree. The Oaks where I grew up, had cluster of round, balloon like growths about one inch, or a few centimeters in diameter. When they fell on the ground, they would pop if you stepped on them. I think we just called them "pop balls". And as a little kid they provided lots of entertainment.
Web search show that those a called Oak Galls and the come from an insect that lays it's eggs under the oak leaves, and the tree makes a protective covering for the eggs. Fucking awesome huh,
You kind of have to respect Athanasius Kircher. That dude just didnt quit. 1:30:35 made me laugh out loud XD
Longer the better