The Fading Vs. Rising Traditions of K-Pop | Pt. 2
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
- Hi! I hope everyone enjoyed the video, let me know your opinions down below! Thank you so much for watching!!
TIMESTAMPS:
Intro - 0:00 - 0:19
Tradition 7 - 0:19 - 4:44
Tradition 8 - 4:44 - 8:51
Tradition 9 - 8:51 - 10:48
Tradition 10 - 10:48 - 13:26
Tradition 11 - 13:26 - 14:36
Tradition 12 - 14:36 - 17:20
Outro - 17:20 - Zábava
16:38 I want to address this. I of course do realize there is more that goes into why a song drops on the charts and racism might have not been the right word to explain what I mean. America’s music industry is very corrupt, they’ve been manipulating the charts for years. And I do think that BTS holds a lot of power, without the help from the western music industry, and that’s something they do not like. A lot of artist have gotten number ones and stayed there, due to sales and also radio play. But a lot of artist rig sales and pay for radio play. So Jimin falling off the chart, still has something to do, with how they’re not necessarily willing to play the American music industry’s games to get to the top and stay there. Having an English song or even a well known American artist featured, definitely helps with chart numbers as well. We’ve seen the difference with BTS’ and Jungkook’s English releases, and how they were able to stay on the chart due to the songs reaching a wider audience.
sm is honestly the only company i can trust rn to deliver good bridges
Yesss, don’t even get me started on NCT’s bridges
Still get chills when I listen to Tempo’s a capella bridge
@@luna_n0vaAy-yo’s bridge lives in my mind rent free
@@springss1861 Omgg yesss to both of your comments!!
While I do enjoy some recent music, I still seem to be stuck in second and third generation music mode…for me, THAT was the most amazing part of Kpop…
I will always say, becoming a Kpop fan during 3rd gen, was one of the best things I’ve ever done. Such an amazing era. There are so many songs that I’d dare say are perfect. I didn’t get to experience 2nd gen in its prime, but the music was still just soo good
@@luna_n0va I still remember finding Kpop… I was actually into Jpop first… Namie Amuro was my first Asian Artist… then a few others came along. I got into Kpop through a coworker who was Korean and he saw me listening and watching Japanese and Chinese artists… he gave me a CD of all people Jang Na Ra… he said she was an actress as well… so I listened and went on to watch her Drama.. My Love Patzzi way back in 2003…
So Jang Na Ra was my first Korean Drama actress.. and my first owned CD😅
@@luna_n0va Oh I was definitely looked at strangely by my family and friends back then …
My road to Kpop started actually in 1993… wow years fly by. I discovered Mandopop from a neighbor friend… he was always playing music from China and Taiwan… my first experience was in his house watching him and his family doing karaoke with a home entertainment center… I was so surprised and intrigued by everything… so quickly I started to hum different tunes after listening to them over and over in his house… soon after I started dating a girl and her family also had a karaoke machine…
So Linda Wong was the first Asian performer I liked… but my experience in Mandopop and Cantopop was not as deep or lasting… although I still have a playlist of about 50 songs from back then and through out the years… the newest performer I really like is G.E,M… her live performance of Eyes,Nose, Lips is incredible… it’s on CZcams.
Around the same time is when I started listening to Jpop as well… my years with Jpop were mostly from 1993 ish until around 2000… but I still listen a bit.
I am not sure if I could be a good person for recommendations for Jpop, other than the INCREDIBLE years that I was really into it… I am a huge fan of Namie Amuro, she’s just Jpop royalty… I also love Utada Hikaru, Speed, Every Little Thing, Dream, Aumi, and more…
I did happen to have a few friends back then who were Asian. So they taught where and how to find VHS tapes and VCD recordings… as well as shows and videos… the excitement of the searches are still in my memory and my heart.
@@luna_n0va Oh, you asked about how was it like being a fan back then… so imagine that CZcams did not exist until the end of 2005… so finding music was really difficult. I had already been taught how to get some music from Asian stores and we shared music within our group… I remember having so many burnt Copies of music from my friends and their families and friends…
But when I started learning about Kpop and fandoms … I remember how most fandoms were supportive… they were competitive of course but they were not so toxic, or maybe I was just naive. I loved F.I.N.kl and S.E.S… H.OT and others… but my first super group was Wonder Girls… SNSD was super popular, and I liked a lot of their early staff, butI still supported Wonder Girls, then BIG BANG… and 2NE1… Kpop was really fun, the energy was so contagious and when CZcams started showing videos of Kpop… well it was a whole different experience…
I remember PSY and Gangnam Style hitting the western scene… so many people were laughing and not sure what they were seeing… but I was already a pretty big fan of PSY… way back in 2003 when he sang with LEXY… still one of my favorite songs. Goodness those were great times. PSY is a genius and is WAY more than the funny stuff.
And I apologize for these very long posts 👀👀😅
2009-2017 was peak kpop for me
SM is one of the few companies to still give us quality bridges, aespa's drama is one of my fav bridges in recent songs.
Yess and the bridge in drama is soo good
I agree about the award shows…. Also it feels like. There are too many awards being given out lol
I agree with that, they’ve been giving one award (like the Daesung, which used to be a big deal) to like 5 different groups lately.
Having 2 or 3 prereleases is a common and very successful tactic used in the West however it is used for full albums so the overall effect could be different. For example, multiple pre-releases work very well for NewJeans who use it to promote every song but for IVE the multi-single method did not work very well as many did not think Baddie was the right main title track to follow up with while others ignored the other pre-releases until baddie came out. The downside would be that NewJeans do not have a lot of b-sides so people constantly talk about the depth of their music while IVE has b-sides so they're praised for having more variety. Another example would be Blackpink who used prereleases (more so separate singles than prereleases) to build hype for their albums which again worked very well while when Twice used pre-releases people assumed that it was the main track and comeback. It really depends on the marketing and use of the prereleases. For Western example multiple singles boosted Olivia's career and debt album while for Miley Cyrus her pre-release "Flowers" completely overshadowed her album. Recently artists like Ariana Grande and Beyonce used pre-release singles to trick fans and the public about the concept and sound of their album which is working out well for them cause the albums are successful
I love Bridges so much, They are the cherry on top to all songs. If the bridge is also a rap its mostly done by the main rapper or lead rapper.
Right?! Bridges are the best part
Removing the K from K-Pop would actually help K-pop artists not be categorized. This is something that holds BTS back a lot because of the "genre" K-Pop they are kept from bigger categories and recognition. This also happens with latin pop but due to the large Spanish-speaking community in the US there are shows dedicated to the latin genres and artists have recently been included in bigger categories. Also K-Pop is NOT a genre so for artists who make Korean Pop like NewJeans and BTS versus artists who max a very maximalized "K-Pop" sound like Stray Kids and Ateez it holds them back while also bringing down the maximalist sound for not being more "gp friendly". If BTS weren't labeled as K-Pop they'd probably have more grammy nominations, awards, and actual recognition not being seen as "other". For Stray Kids and Ateez they are very popular with large fanbases but when placed in a category with NewJeans and BTS they are overlooked. They would thrive in a category more suited to their sound instead of the K-Pop bubble.
This is true, I like your perspective on this topic. I definitely forgot dynamite was nominated as pop duo, because of it being in all English. And while Kpop is not a genre, it’s still categorized as one in the west. And with the points you made, I would say that Kpop artist would end up needing to play into the western industries “games” of how to get more recognition. Since Kpop is not a genre, they still could include Kpop songs in regular categories, that fit the genre of the songs themselves. Which the western industry won’t do, because of the fear of international artist winning over certain American artist. So removing the k out of Kpop would play to that game, which Kpop companies just see that as business. Ig, I’m still looking at it from the side of removing the K is almost like removing the identity of Kpop itself. Which I feel is why a lot of people are so against Kpop becoming westernized, because of the fear of Kpop possibly blending with western pop and ceasing to exist. (Which probably wouldn’t happen, but anything’s possible)
Per Billboard it's not categorized by genre, but rather Popular Korean artist/songs/Albums in South Korea, It is just pop that doesnt have a separate category, Kpop Bilboard chart observes Korean pop chart trends and artist that fall in 'pop'are only nominated in general award categories where as K-pop, rap, R&B, rock, etc.artistcan be both nominated in the general categories and genre/region specific categories. Jungkook is a popular SOuth Korean artist whose songs charted well in SK. While we also see 50/50 and Jimin nominated in the General award categories. Jimin had nominations in both general and kpop categories. Also, BTS does have their Grammy nominations in 'pop' categories.
I believe that to have a bridge you need good vocalists-like in Aespa, BP, BTS, Red velvet, Exo, and many more. Nowadays, many groups don't have powerful voices-like in Ls, Illit, New jeans (they can sing but in really low range as their voices are still not that powerful), Stray Kids and more. But the trend of not having bridges is due to the fact that the same groups with no great vocalists are actually leading the new gen
not just wigs, we had a pretty big trend of only colouring parts of hair which don’t have to get constantly re bleached and even if it gets really damaged it still isn’t that obvious.
3rd Gen music will always be the best in my mind. Like, sorry but literally every single group was DELIVERING back then but as soon as the 4th Gen started (and even more so, the 5th Gen) it's been hard to find an entire album full of incredible songs (or an album over 20 mins long LMAO). Even the groups that used to deliver in 2014-18 are now shifting to be with the times and I totally get wanting to stay trendy and popular, but the new K-pop sound is just not what made me fall in love with K-pop in the first place.
I agree, 3rd gen kpop was just on another level! I used to listen to albums nonstop and was actually really excited deep dive into groups music. I still do think 4th gen and 5th gen have great groups and music, but it is very different from what got me into Kpop
@@luna_n0va Some groups still bang, but the chances of them coming from a Big 4 company is slim to none and that says a lot about the direction K-pop is going in :(
Regarding the bridge part,even though I am an Engene i have not been the biggest fans of last 2 title tracks whereas their webtoon songs are sooooooo good. Like why can't their team get a clue and give them a good song.
Ever since I found Kpop, I’ve worried about Kpop becoming way too western mainstream… same can be said for K Dramas…
Both Kpop and K Dramas have become more western focused… but I have always thought that both traditional Kpop and Korean Dramas were at least equal, if not superior to western entertainment… hopefully there will always be some exceptions who will remain true to the original form.
Same, the uniqueness was what made me interested in K-Pop for sure! And definitely right now there are still many dramas and groups, who have kept true to the old ways to some degree. With Kpop, I’ve noticed the concepts and looks of 3rd gen and 2nd gen are slowly creeping back into Kpop. Its always soo refreshing to see
@@luna_n0va I agree! I was actually kind of moving away from Kpop other than a few artists who were still around… IU, Mamamoo, Twice… I was happy for BTS and Blackpink’s success, but I also felt apprehensive about what was happening…
But I immediately was blown away by New Jeans, IVE and Fifty Fifty… although the drama around Fifty Fifty is a multiple video series on itself… still the sound and vibe of each group brought me back in…
@@robtucker6303 I agree, BTS releasing all English songs, was definitely something I had to get used to. I genuinely was not expecting them to do that. Fifty Fifty’s situation is so sad. I feel for the girls so much. I do think they were on their way to becoming a very great group.
@@luna_n0va Sigh, I fell in love with the Fifty Fifty… Cupid is super fun but Tell Me and Lovin Me were incredible… I just wish the best for Sio, Aran and Saena… the toxic hate they received was just too sad. Hopefully they will be back soon and be able to pursue their dreams again…
I love this serie ! ❤ The points that you are bringing are things I have also realise and some that I didn't even realise😅 excited for part 3👌
I’m so glad you’re enjoying it!!! ❣️
Yet again another masterpiece of a video. I like how you are considering of things and informational at the same time. Plus you're not scared to speak your ultimate thoughts on things, so yeah. Keep it up. I look forward to part three!!
Thank you soo much! ❣️
To be honest i do t mind pre releases the more content the marier . If pre releases means i got 4or 5 mvs instead of 1 or 2 then im very happy . Pluss i dont feel we should judge songs differently if they are title traks or not .a good song is a good song thats why i dont really mind being unsure what te title is because who cares. Western artists do that for years and they end ups with an MV for almost every song in the album if not all (ex. Dua lipa Future Nostalgia ,Melanie Martinez Cry baby etc.) The debut ones i do agree that it is confusing and the debut shouldn't really have pre release traks like if its you first time on an mv or stage then its your debut.
Psy introduced me to the quirky concept. Gangman style, New face, and Daddy. People cringe at the weird music videos, plus most people has them in their worst music videos list. But weird is what psy does best. Red velvet's Zimzalabim is a weird song with werid styling, But there is Orange Caramel, WJSN Chocome, Super Junior L.S.S., and Young Posse. Super Junior L.S.S. and Young Posse revived the weird concept. Young Posse's comeback song XXL is a grower but I like their music video.
this seems like an interesting video, ❤ thanks for posting
about intricate choreos, i think you’d probably enjoy the ones from billlie, if you haven’t already checked them out !
I absolutely love their music, but I honestly haven’t watched too many of their performances. I’ll definitely check that out!
@@luna_n0va ahh lovely! then i’d recommend you the enchanted night performance video and also everybody’s got a secret !
@@grazielatedesco8320 thank you!
16:26 I would like to comment about the statement: "People in America will never let a K-pop artist ever be on top in the West." That sentiment goes both ways. How many westerners have even been allowed to be in a K-Pop group (without constant and severe backlash), or even be back up dancers in any large number? How many westerners have topped the charts on Korean billboards or taken any awards? How many Koreans of color (mixed nationalities that include black people) are there in any group? The K-Pop artist with a little tan to their skin are teased, bullied, or marginalized just because they are slightly different but THEY’RE KOREAN!
I’ve heard the sentiment, the “K” in K-Pop means Korean and you mean to keep it that way in your country. You keep your country the way you want it, but you expect other countries to…not?
There is a definite lack of "deserving otherness" in the K-Pop industry, so why are you surprised when other countries will not exalt Koreans over their own, even if they are deserving?
When money and the desire to get more of it is king, skill, talent, and deserving seems to take a back seat; and worse, when racial pride eclipses skill and talent, many deserving people don't stand a chance (some can’t even get accepted as a trainee because their "differentness" weeds them out).
Yes, the sentiment flows both ways and until executives on both sides come to value pure talent as the driver for who is chosen for top accolades, the artists will continue to suffer this frustrating impasse. Executives can choose to build walls or remove them and so can we as fans.
You’re so right! Thank you for adding in this perspective too. It’s not fair for Kpop companies to be upset when they’re not accepted outside of Asia, while also doing the same thing foreigners. I do totally agree with that.
You know the K is just there, cause it is just pop done by Koreans. Although lately a lot of groups are not only Koreans in them. Also, don't blame a company for wanting to make money, that is why it is called a company. The music industry is a business. If you dont like it, then stop consuming and stop helping the business. If you want everything to be about the art, the fan, or to romanticize it, then create an organization that makes music and don't charge for any of it, see if it works out.
ive always loved kpop but it's not genere and it treated like on the reason I like newjeans so much is that they actully dared to do something diffrent when everyone was in fishnet tights and other jackets and it bought us this wonderful wave of well-thought out concepts and I will always thank them for it. they like literally shifted the industry. But i hate the industry's attitude of just copying whatever like yes maybe it will work once or twice but its gonna stop working at a point. Most popular groups like Aespa and blackpink were popular because they did their own thing and stood out.. It about standing out in the crowd that's how you get ppl to pay attention and NEWJEANS pulled it off fabulously.
also like i hate that newjeans is getting blamed for other groups wanting to release shorter songs when so far only their getup album has short songs than their debut and omg album all has three-minute songs. also, why are we demonizing short songs like it's the digital streaming age not radio anymore so ppl kind of need to get on with the time. like I understand that it not easy to accept change but I believe that even if everyone start releasing short songs someone will eventually start releasing long songs again. and ppl will follow how trends work their isn't much to be worried about.
@ 15:12 ... One hit in the West is not success ... Fifty Fifty were one-hit wonders that disbanded who are trying to reconstitute with a single, original one-hit member !
unrelated but your voice is so nice to listen to !! what mic do you use?
Thank you! And I actually just use the mic that are in my earphones
I’m mostly fine with pre releases but the whole pre release before debut thing? Makes no sense to me. The first thing you release as a group IS your debut, no matter what anyone says. Idc if people call it a pre release. Especially if y’all are performing it on music shows like be serious.
I dont really like bang pds approch he kindof singlehandedly ruined what bts had built the trust and image bighit had hybe dosnt and it hurting them.
the reason newjeans is popular imo is that their concepts so far have been well thoughtout and with a long term plan in mind. the only groups right now that are actully good concept andmusic wise are newjeans and bnd and they both arnt managed by him.
i can see the racisim argument but then you have to ask yourself why is there never a kongolese artist on top of korean charts or a indian on top of spanish charts and that is not racisim its beacause if you hear words that are not in your language in a song you simply cant relate.
im german and beside english songs there are not many foreign tracks that were in german charts, but when they do than they are there for month and month even years. Las Ketchup was 2 years running multiple times daily on german mtv. several french artists, spanish , bulgarian artists even russian artist but often these songs are ,, fun,, songs where you don´t need to understand whats´s going on. gangnam style was a funny beat and dance ( and to be honest a somewhat fat asian was something funny to look at in my opinion).
i really like k-pop and i have nothing but respect for the artists, because i know the hard work and training but even for me the artificiality of those artists stage personalitys is hard accept when a ultra ,, confident,, boygroup member in interviews is so shy that he can´t even speak . plus this concept of aegyo and permanently touching each other is very strange an becomes even ironic when you look at how asian societies are really tread each other and adds another layer of fakeness western people disslike. And if u hear that the artists live together and are practically owned by companys it reinforces asian stereotyps that a single person has no worth and is replacable