Did the Russian Winter beat the Germans? And more... TIK Q&A 2
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- Many people believe that the Russian Winter stopped the Germans outside Moscow. Historians no longer think this is the case. In this video, I discuss many topics, including German logistics, Russian or Soviet sources, the Operation Barbarossa Plan, whether it was a viable strategy for the Germans to retreat to the 1941 pre-Barbarossa borders, and more! All these questions came from my Patreons who pledge $5 or more.
This video is discussing events or concepts that are academic, educational and historical in nature. This video is for informational purposes and was created so we may better understand the past and learn from the mistakes others have made.
Here’s some other videos you may be interested in -
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FALL BLAU 1942 - Examining the Disaster of German’s second summer offensive • FALL BLAU 1942 - Exami...
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My video entitled “Why I'm Passionate about HISTORY and What Got Me Into it”
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History isn’t as boring as some people think, and my goal is to get people talking about it. I also want to dispel the myths and distortions that ruin our perception of the past by asking a simple question - “But is this really the case?”. I have a 2:1 Degree in History and a passion for early 20th Century conflicts (mainly WW2). I’m therefore approaching this like I would an academic essay. Lots of sources, quotes, references and so on. Only the truth will do.
Check out the pinned comment below for more information, notes, links, and sources. Also, please consider supporting me on Patreon and help make more videos like this possible / tikhistory
*Video Timestamps*
*Q1* [Jen and Aaron] Can you talk a bit about the Russian Winter of 1941? And why has so little been written about the 1941-42 Soviet winter offensive? 00:35
*Q2* [Semih Sander] What if the German Army retreated to the pre-Barbarossa positions upon failure to take Moscow, maybe as early as November 41? 09:10
*Q3* [Olaf] Assuming that an important objective of Barbarossa was to secure access to raw materials, such as oil and grain; how did the Nazi's initially try to accomplish that? 12:13
*Q4* [Ken Goss] How did the Soviets have enough fuel for their 42-45 offensives? 16:10
*Q5* [Aaron again] Why do you (TIK) say the Germans replenished their losses when Glantz says Hitler was told they were a million men understrength in 1942? 19:27
*Q6* [SparkyBoomer and Craig] Can you further elaborate about their issues with logistics and the apparently long suffering logistics officers who were seemingly constantly ignored? And who were the people responsible for rear echelon logistical security? 26:07
*Q7* [Dekabr] Is this blog tankarchives.blogspot.com trustworthy. And what would be your thoughts on the soviets "lying" on purely internal documents? 35:09
*Q8* [Alexandre] Did the Battle of Stalingrad impact the theory of Urban Warfare? And how much did the Battle of Berlin owe to the Battle of Stalingrad in terms of Urban Warfare doctrine? 43:17
*Q9* [Milan] Are you going to further specialize on the eastern front, especially bringing russian sources to the english-speaking audience? 48:34
*Q10* [Kirin] What do you think of Budyonny? 52:50
*Q11* [Timo] How is your German coming along? What is the first German source you want to use once you master the language enough? 57:33
*Q12* [Ricky] What books would you recommend for the North African theater in WWII? 59:26
*Q13* [Gregory Mackay] Were you able to find any good books or papers on tanks, and if so what were they? 01:01:53
*Q14* [Jen] What's your opinion on Alternate History and self-described "Educational" channels? 01:03:37
*Books used/referenced in the video*
Liedtke, G. “Enduring the Whirlwind: The German Army and the Russo-German War 1941-1943.” Helion & Company LTD, 2016.
Pitt, B. “The Crucible of War Volume 1: Wavell’s Command. The Definitive History of the Desert War." Cassell & Co, 2001.
Pitt, B. “The Crucible of War Volume 2: Auchinleck’s Command. The Definitive History of the Desert War." Cassell & Co, 2001.
Pitt, B. “The Crucible of War Volume 3: Montgomery and Alamein. The Definitive History of the Desert War." Cassell & Co, 2001.
Pöhlmann, M. "Der Panzer und die Mechanisierung des Krieges: Ein deutsche Geschichte 1890 bis 1945." Schöningh, 2016.
Stahel, D. “The Battle for Moscow.” Cambridge University Press, Kindle, 2015.
Stahel, D. “Operation Barbarossa: Germany’s Defeat in the East.” Cambridge University Press, Kindle, 2010.
Wette, W. & Ueberschär, G. "Stalingrad: Mythos und Wirklichkeit einer Schlacht." 2013.
Wette, W. "The Wehrmacht: History, Myth, Reality." Harvard University Press, 2006.
“Germany and the Second World War: Volume IV/I, The Attack on the Soviet Union.” Militärgeschichtliches Forschungsamt (Research Institute for Military History) Potsdam, Germany. Oxford University Press, 2015.
The books on tanks (and guns) that I said weren’t great -
Fletcher, D. "Crusader and Covenanter Cruiser Tanks 1939-45." Osprey Publishing, 2007.
Henry, C. "British Anti-tank Artillery 1939-45." Osprey Publishing, 2004.
Henry, C. "The 25-pounder Field Gun 1939-72." Osprey Publishing, 2011.
Newsome, B. "Valentine Infantry Tank 1938-45." Osprey Publishing, 2016.
Perrett, B. "Panzerkampfwagen III Medium Tank 1936-44." Osprey Publishing, 2009.
Perrett, B. "Panzerkampfwagen IV Medium Tank 1936-45." Osprey Publishing, 2007.
Zaloga, S. "BT Fast Tank: The Red Army's Cavalry Tank 1931-45." Osprey Publishing, 2016.
Zaloga, S. "T-26 Light Tank: Backbone of the Red Army." Osprey Publishing, 2015.
Zaloga, S. "T-34/76 Medium Tank 1941-45." Osprey Publishing, 2010.
Zaloga, S. "M3 & M5 Stuart Light Tank 1940-45." Osprey Publishing, 2009.
Thanks for watching!
Haha snot bad 😂
@TIK In terms of shitty alt history. I remember one where the Germans make separate peace with the UK, somehow. And then launch Barbarossa with such great advantages as... Yugoslavia in the axis! The video ends with "The soviets surrender" but the map shows Germany hasn't even reached the Caucasus!
21:26 :D Ostfront it is again. its just the first letter you do wrong. its O-stfront like you say OMG-- "Oh" ---my god. "Oh"-stfront. just try it :) here you pronounce it like oosterbeek or other places in the netherlands :D
That's exactly what I mean! It makes zero sense, and I don't understand why people actually watch those videos because there's much better content out there than that stuff
32:04 The first OST of you multiple Ostkrieg attempts is rightly ponounced :=) but krieg wrongly :D
You open a Red Army and you find another Red Army, you open that Red Army and find yet another Red Army... So the Germans were defeated by General Matryoshka not General Winter.
Underrated comment xD
It's Red Armies all the way down.
Good line. I'd like to steal this Matryoshka quote in the near future!
but somehow each next is bigger than the last!
I agree that is an underrated comment
as a russian i have to say that was hilarious!
"The reason why the Soviets win is because they don't lose." -TIK
"It is possible to commit no mistakes and still lose. That is not a weakness; that is life." - Jean-Luc Picard
(Don't tell the Germans that, Captain, you'll give them an excuse!)
"People die if they are killed"
Yes
That's a war of attrition. The last one standing in a war did not lose.
@R T
Actually you are wrong on both wars. Not Soviet Union but Russia did rather well against Austria and held its own against Germany. It was betrayed by its leadership and suffered from pool logistics. One of the reforms that the new government adopted is to let the decision on the battlefield to be made by the soldiers voting for what they want. Imagine that: the soldiers can vote and override what the officers command...
The winter war was another example of poor leadership at all levels and poor logistics. Once Timoshenko took over the war ended quickly. Also you can look at the battles at Lake Khasan and Khalkhin Gol to see that the Red Army performed well when lead by capable officers and has proper logistics.
I'd recommend Marshal Zhukov's autobiography, for many reasons, but his thoughts on weather are relevant here. "YOU THINK WE DIDN'T GET STUCK IN THE MUD!!?? YOU THINK WE DIDN'T FREEZE!!??"
Long story short, he didn't think highly of people who said the Germans were defeated by the weather.
Zhukov also summed up the importance of Lend Lease - and the postwar propaganda about it - with a great quote, made to the novelist Simonov in 1963 in what he thought was a private conversation "People say that the allies didn't help us. But it cannot be denied that the Americans sent us materiel without which we could not have formed our reserves or continued the war. The Americans provided vital explosives and gunpowder. And how much steel! Could we really have set up the production of our tanks without American steel? And now they are saying that we had plenty of everything on our own."
@2nd Amendment for Canada! it's less so that and more so that the soviets had much shorter lines of supply and could thus more quickly and efficiently supply their troops, unlike the germans who were at the absolute end of their supply lines
I read Zhukov's book. Zhukov and I were born the same year.
@@ianwhitchurch864 What's WAY more important was that the Bomber campaign forced the Germans to moved hundreds of 88mm batteries and fighters west, away from the Eastern Front. Also, huge amounts of production went into defending the Reich - in addition to the reduction in production as a result of the bombing. THIS is BETTER than opening up the second front in 1943 that Stalin demanded. He didn't understand that the Allies were indeed fighting a second front that was more useful to him then he could imagine, simply because the Soviets didn't understand strategic bombing.
@@emie9858 Tankograd was further from the front than the Ruhr was. It was just the Germans were bad at logistics, as they didn't consider it a priority.
Germany: attacks Soviet Union
Soviet Union: counterattacks
Hitler: "it's freezing outside"
*Halder
Germany: attacks soviet union
USSR: fights back
Germany: thats not what supposed to happen
@@benismann winter: fucks it all up
Barbarosa in a nutshel:
Step 1: Defeat Red Army
Step 2: ?????
Step 3: Profit
Precisely!
It's that Germany thought beating the Red Army for 2 months would somehow stop them where the ? comes in. Thinking about it, it kind of reflects the Japanese thought that Pearl Harbor would somehow beat the USA.
Or the Japanese somehow thought the US wouldn't be encouraged into a roaring rampage of revenge after Pearl Harbor, which the more perceptive and reasonable higher-ups knew they could not win against.
MarioPawner Japans plan vs USA
Step 1: Destroy Usa navy in pearl Harbor
Step 2: ????
Step 3: Profit
Pokemon League a correction I think.
Step 1: Defeat Red Army.
Step 2: profits!!!!!!!!!
Step 3: fight second Red Arm..... wait what?!?!?!?
Step 1: Defeat the Red Army
Step 2: If Step 1 fails, see Step 3
Step 3: See Step 1 !
HAHAHAHA GOOD ONE
I srsly laughed
"we'll just draw a line from arkhangelsk to astrakhan"
hey works in hoi4
Lol in fact since hoi 1 you get the event peace treaty and your general staff eats caviar if you get the main 3 city of leningrad stallingrad and Moscow and the caucasus
Perhaps the Germans should have avoided bringing America into the WAR! Why declare war on poor little America. which most of your ideas leave the US out of the results!
@@curtdenson2360 USA would have joined anyway
If you want something interesting, contrary to the "invading Russia in winter meme", the failed invasions are usually started in Summer. As for foes who invaded in winter, the Commonwealth, Swedes, Mongols, they usually actually won. So yes invading Russia in winter is a good idea.
Of course, when you start the invasion you're still close to your homeland so supplies are less of an issue. Then when they do become an issue winter has ended. And should the invasion last until the next winter, the troops are more experienced in dealing with the cold.
Who would win?
"A number of various factors caused the German defeat"
vs:
"It's cold outside"
vs "The Red Army won"
Stenrod why dont you try a russian winter first, before making these comments?
When you already have supply issues.
When you already have not enough oil...
Now you need even more supplies and its even harder to transport them...
Clearly not a factor.
Horses and waggons also perform much better in cold weather - it is known.
They never got stuck. The horses never froze.
The weather is never an issue.
Obviously!
@@kloschuessel773
Who would win?
"A number of various factors caused the German defeat"
vs
"The weather is never an issue. Obviously!"
Logistics are important, one of the reasons the Russians failed in 1905 against the Japanese, they didn't have their railroads up yet. The Red Army won the Darwin Award of military history.
M yep.
The russians basically used the same tactic since ivan the terrible...
Worked against napoleon.
Tactical retreat into the country...
Invading army eats everything on the way in, longer and longer supply lines, constant harassment, terror tactics
Unfriendly territory, unknown territory...
And probably from time to time cut supply lines.
The deeper you go, the harder it gets.
Lel
An important point to mention in regard to how the Soviets would have continued fighting even if Moscow were lost is that there was really no choice but to keep fighting.
As the Nazis invaded the USSR for the land, food, and raw materials to establish the dominance of the Aryan race, considering the people in the way of their conquest as not only expandable, but a direct threat to the genetic purity of Aryans. For the many ethnic groups of the USSR, the advancing German army was an existential threat to their survival, and to surrender was to guarantee the mass enslavement, murder, and relocation of tens of millions of people. *For this reason, even if taking Moscow would have rendered the Soviets incapable of resisting the Germans (which it wouldn't have), surrendering was not an option.*
I love your channel btw
Lol, step away from the propaganda
@@yingyang1008 *General plan ost* and *vital space in the east* is propaganda ? you are a negationist....
@@Necromancer_88 Nearly everything we've been told about that war is nonsense
The Soviet leaders weren't even Russian and certainly had no love for Russia for its people
@@yingyang1008 writhe the truth if you see it please ...
The Soviet leaders weren't even Russian and certainly had no love for Russia for its people
trotski & co for sure
@@Necromancer_88 The Bolsheviks engaged in the biggest human slaughter in world history, then created a despicable gulag police state - the ethnic make up of most of its leaders (especially NKVD) is there for all to see
They then took over and slaved dozens of satellite nations before WWII, and then took over half of Europe, sending it into a dark age it is still only just recovering from 80 years later
Only when facing defeat from Germany did they start to play the patriotic propaganda card
I'm not defending Germany, but let's not forget just how despicable the Bolshevik regime and Stalin the Georgian were
We know the Soviets had another Red Army of reserves when the Wehrmacht destroyed the frontier Soviet Army in the first few summer months of 1941. Yet, the Soviets were more prepared for war than people give them credit for despite their enormous losses. A couple points here listed below:
1. The Soviet Army under Timoshenko and Zhukov had major military reforms ongoing to remedy the shortcomings of the Finnish Winter War. These reforms were still ongoing on June 22, 1941. The Soviets needed another year to complete these reforms but you can see the marked improvements of the Soviet Army at the battle of Stalingrad in 1942/43. Rifle divisions were reduced from 14,000 men to around 10,000 men. Officer training and Noncom training was improved markedly. Infantry training also was improved too. The Soviets instituted streamlined reforms to their rifle divisions moving the artillery more to individual artillery divisions while rifle divisions received more antitank guns, mortars, and more automatic weapons, including submachine guns. Large unwieldly armored corps were reduced to armored brigades of about 90 tanks and 3,400 men. The Soviets also introduced many rifle brigades of about 3,600 men each. These smaller formations were easier for lesser experienced young officers to command but later on became the nucleous for new Soviet Rifle divisions as trained reserves were called up. The Soviets had around 15 MILLION trained men in reserves to call up for duty in 1941/42. Many more millions men could be called up to be trained for service. This manpower reserve gave the Soviet Union enormous fighting potential allowing it to keep SIX MILLION COMBAT TROOPS on the front for the entire war. Women were employed everywhere in the Soviet Army and Air Force. Women served as snipers, tank drivers, police, truck drivers, nurses, service troops, antiaircraft and combat aircrew/pilots.
2. The Soviet railway system functioned absolutely flawlessly. The Soviet railway system, despite heavy Luftwaffe bombing, moved ten of thousands of small to large factories to the Urals. The Soviet railway system moved tens of millions of skilled workers and their families East to the Urals too. The Soviet railway system also started mass producing many armored trains. The BP-35 armored train system was used up fighting ferociously in combat in 1941/42. These BP-35 armored trains were replaced with the more modern NKPS series (1941) more than 20 built, the OB-3 (1942) series armored trains with more than 60 built and BP-43 (1943) armored trains series of over 25 built. The Soviets railway system also built 110 flak trains of three to six cars with 37mm and 76mm flak guns. Many other smaller artillery trains and flak trains were constructed during the war in the scores or hundreds of examples. These flak trains and armored trains were involved in heavy combat in every major battle of the war on Soviet soil. The armored trains had antiaircraft guns and flak trains guarded major rail centers. These armored trains and flak trains took a regular steady toll of German Luftwaffe aircraft. The Soviet railway system was the primary arterial transportation system but it was also a strategic weapon of war on the Eastern front. Much of the Soviet Union is a sea of mud during the spring and fall seasons or during any winter time thaw. Railways were the only arteries of war that actually moved during these times. These flak trains and armored trains played critical roles in the fighting around Smolensk and Kiev, Odessa, Sebastopol, the battle for Moscow, the siege of Leningrad, the battle of Stalingrad and in many battles throughout the end of the war.
3. The Soviet wintertime military technology was superior to the Germans. Soviet tanks designs, like the T-34 medium and KV heavy tanks, were optimized for winter conditions. Soviet quilted military uniforms and boots kept Soviet soldiers warm during the cold arctic nights. Soviet lubricants for artillery guns and rifles were thinned down in viscosity, especially for arctic conditions. The point here is Soviet military equipment was optimized for winter combat. The Germans equipment froze to the ground or worked poorly in the winter. The Germans required many troops to stay up all night in shifts tending fires under tanks, starting vehicles and motorized equipment. This type of 24 hour work schedule made German troops exhausted playing a significant role in the battle of Moscow. It also wasted enormous amounts of fuel too for idling engines including fires to warm freezing German solders.
4. Soviet cavalry and partisan activity was stepped up in the winter of 1941/42. Brutal German treatment of Soviet civilians caused many to join the partisans. The Soviet Army used old biplanes, the Po-2, often piloted by women, to supply partisans with food, trained specialized officers, weapons, ammo, and to fly out wounded soldiers to the rear at night. Soviet cavalry moved during the night to hide out, scout and then plan tough attacks on German rear area garrison, supply centers, airfields and rear area infrastructure. These Soviet cavalry units fought dismounted with light field guns, mortars, and lots of automatic weapon including antitank rifles. These cavalry raids covered large distant areas of ground. The cavalry hid during the day, attacked at night and then moved on or retreated before major German responses could occur. The cavalry moved fine through forests, snow drifts and through frozen swamps where vehicles and men on foot had a hard time following.
5. The Soviet Air Force fought hard at night in 1941/42. The Soviet Air Force then made a strong comeback at the battle of Moscow. The Soviets came up with the good Yak series and Lavochkin series fighter planes. These improved Yaks and Lavochkin fighters eventually became superior to the Luftwaffe's Me-109 or FW-190. The Soviet Air Force kept the Luftwaffe from heavily bombing Moscow with the high altitude Mig fighter. The night attacks of the Soviet Air Force took their toll on German rear areas too. So despite having older aircraft in 1941/42, the Soviets bounced back quickly causing much trouble for the Germans.
To sum up these comments it is critical to remember all the strong actions the Soviet had taken in the 1930's to get ready for a war. The Soviet railway system evacuated industry. Plus, armored trains fought savagely in all the battles on the Eastern Front. The Soviet Army had 20,000 plus light tanks of the T-26 and BT series both with 45mm guns. These light tanks were later supplemented by 6000 T-60 light tanks manufactured in 1941/42 and the 8200 T-70 light tank manufactured 1942/43. The T60's and T70's kept the Soviet Army in the fight in the hard first year of the war. All these light tanks suffered heavy losses but these all too a toll on German infantry and armor with deadly close range attacks supporting rifle divisions and rifle brigades. Each one of these Soviet light tanks had to be dealt with by the Germans causing casualties and time delays. These light tanks did as much to kill Germans at the critical beginning of the war as anything else. The T-34 and KV production went down for a while as the factories moved to the Urals. The T-60's and improved T-70's were good infantry support tanks. The Soviet learned to camouflage their light tanks using them in ambush and for infantry support. I think way too many historians forget how important these T-60's and T-70's werer to the Soviet Army while production of the T-34 and KV was relocated and restarted in the Urals. We forget about these light tanks but they were present in every major battle of WW 2 along side the T-34 KV and other tanks. The T-70 tank was turned into the very successful SU-76 gun platform with over 12,000 manufactured during WW2.
www.operationbarbarossa.net/soviet-forces-operation-barbarossa-june-july-1941/
www.militaryfactory.com/armor/detail.asp?armor_id=343
globeatwar.com/blog-entry/t-70-light-tanks-crucial-role-1942-era-red-army
wio.ru/rr/ww2sov.htm
www.rbth.com/history/332127-everything-you-wanted-to-know-wwii
www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/russia/railroad-9.htm
ww2db.com/person_bio.php?person_id=554
Dude they weren't prepared for war. Even in your own comment you say they were 1 year away from combat readiness. Just because they turned the war around doesn't negate the fact that the Reds suffered defeat after defeat in the beginning.
Consecutive routs and lack of equipment for more than a year is exactly the opposite of warfare readiness.
Best article I’ve read on the eastern front especially from the Soviet side
We wuz holy romans shiza
@@jintarokensei3308 Stalin should have kept all his troops on the old 1938 Soviet western border augmenting these permanent fortifications with field fortifications. The next thing Stalin should have done was appoint General Zhukov and Marshal Timoshenko in charge of training reforms. The 22,000 or so T-26 and BT series tanks should have been organized into brigades disbanding the unwieldy armored corps. The light tanks could have been more easily maintained in brigades. Other light tanks could have been dug in as pill boxes with the infantry. The German Wehrmacht would have faced a Soviet Army fortified in a defense in depth forcing an immediate prolonged war of attrition and denied a war of maneuver. This strategy would have allowed more time to mobilize more reserve armies to stop the Wehrmacht. This strategy was exactly what Timoshenko, Zhukov and other military leaders urged Stalin to do. The new western frontier could have been held by NKVD border troops, cavalry divisions and some armored trains screening and falling back to the main line of Soviet defenses.
Brilliant insight.
What is incredible from a western point of view is our winters. Always Winter !
Winter is a natural element to which we must adapt, quite simply. despite "warm clothes", the Russian Soldier also suffered from the extreme cold.
I am sad because i am a bad woman and not because i am a Russian woman, i am human first...
...and for harsh winters, I have no antifreeze in my blood.
It's ridiculous that people even need to be told about this. Not just WW2 even Napoleonic war, FFS check the date when Napoleon begin his retreat, it's not winter.
I've not looked into that era, but that's awesome! Didn't know that either
sahil singh What significance does the date the retreat began have? The retreat lasted from mid-October until December, and it wasn't blizzards that killed Napoleon's men, it was the cold and the hunger.
LosBerkos The point is Napoleon lost the campaign before winter i.e. winter didn't defeated him as often is portrayed in pop media, of course his retreat was made worse by harsh weather but the point is the whole campaign was already a failure before winter set in.
Well the hunger was Napoleon's fault, in large part, because his logistics methodology from the beginning of his career was living off the land to be able to cross the continent faster. So he had made the Grande Armee vulnerable to scorched earth intentionally, because prior to railways the speed of an army bringing it's own supplies was how fast the oxen pulling the carts would walk, as with the British Army slowly pushing into Zululand in the 1870s. Likewise he underinvested in sanitation and a field hospital service, so his brave conscripts suffered an unnecessarily high rate of attrition to disease.
Patrick Holt Napoleon also exacerbated the supply and weather related problems of the retreat by sitting on the ruins of Moscow for a whole month right into mid-October, until he finally ordered the retreat. He was waiting for an unlikely peace offer by the Russians that never came. This was simply a completly illogical decision, purely driven by whishful thinking and an inability to admit defeat. Had the Russians been willing to make a peace deal, they would have offered him one when he entered Moscow - not burned it to the ground.
"The reason the Russians win is because they do not lose."
I always find it interesting that you still see this in Russians today, in everything they do up to and including how they play video games. Rather than Soviet leadership, this seems to be a mentality of the Russian culture. They simply refuse to lose, even when everything seems hopeless. To cite an interesting quote:
"What really scares me about the Reds is that they don’t follow the normal rules of alliances. Usually if you defeat an alliance they shatter. The Reds have lost all their territory and still come back with disciplined, vicious, and effective assaults against innumerable foes, and they’ve been in non-stop combat for almost three full years now. It’s just insane."
- 'The Mitanni', Goonswarm Spymaster, EVE Online, when talking about the Russian Red Alliance.
Several times, from fights at schoolto military service I learned to not give up until I couldn't continue, sometimes, and often rather to my surprise, I have won because my opponent gave up first. I'm British, not Russian btw.
@lee hamlin one who defends his land and family is worth 10 of those fighting for money or glory (... and especially when uncle Jo is your chief)
also germans shot female soviet pow's on the spot
If you would like to talk about Red Alliance, the reason for its longevity is that the vast majority of its core members are interested in combat, rather than economy/empire building. While some other alliances crumble when its leadership sees how their hard earned territory shrinks, Red Alliance core members just merely see another opportunity for PvP.
Simply put, you can destroy a country, but you can’t destroy the idea, like in IRL insurgencies. Add to that that in Eve all big players are really hoarders - they have TOO MUCH money and the war are won by lowering morale of the opponent, not by cunning military moves or huge economy, so, even an alliance with little economy can still cause a lot of damage.
@@canberrafinest You obviously dont know any Germans, shot with short arms is perhaps what you meant?
soviets had all female combat units.
when captured by the germans those women soldiers were shot, and not taken as prisoners of war.
For coverage of the Battle of Rhzev, the series "Soviet Storm" is one of the few places to find actual accounts, including Red Army battlefield maps and notes.
I think it was historian John Keegan who said something along the lines of:
“Battles are won not when the enemy is defeated, but when their will to resist is. The Soviet Union’s will to resist was never defeated.”
So the lesson is
A. The German's terrible logistic
cost them Barbarossa
B. Memes are not always correct
Not just logistics, no.
Meme's > History
But why. Aren't the German front line was extremely long and they exhausted their reserve of all times right during Operatio Typhoon
But historians are now saying they lost before Typhoon
That means they lost on 22 june 1941
Summary:
1. Barbarossa was a plan without any constructive targets in perspective, just to defeat Red Army.
2. German preparation (stockpiles of materials, human resources, equipment, etc.) before invasion was more of a good wish than solid economical calculation.
3. Germans are not that good with building supply lines in the east.
4. Soviet hospitality can be extremely cold.
Why this war lasted that long? They should gone confused, cold and lost in Russian steppes. Hände hoch and Siberian vacation... meanwhile retreat took a lot of time and Germans managed to employ (too late) lots of military inventions during that time. Fatalities went in tens of millions and now instead of solid historical basis we got alternative history... somebody, give me grenade.
Chuikov in his book (i think it is "road to berlin") says explicitly that the 8th Guards did use the experience from Stalingrad in Berlin operation.
One soviet said we were learning to fight until staligrand. But after staligrand we had nothing to learn. We knew everything
Good video. Pitty to give corrective comments. I wish author to know Russian and actually all other laguages - just to get more information.
In fact in Russian army Urban Warfare doctrine was may be not formalized but let say urban war experience was collected and apparently documented. Main leasons learned from Kharkov, Voronezh, Kiev, Warsaw, Viena, Budapest and other cities operations are following:
- better to use small infantry groups
- infantry should be equipped with machine guns/pistols rather than rifles
- due to less of command from headquarters commander of each group should better understand overall target of main plan
- its better to move not via main streets but through building, tanks should be coordinated to make holles in the boildings\fences
- main defence positions should be outflanked (usually main road crossings we highly defenced) and subjected for artillery
- in case of artillery advantage, every captured building should be provided with red flag to avoid friendly fire from own artillery
Actually during Berlin operation - it was culmination urban warfare experince (you can use term doctrine) of Red Army. It is long story to describe it all. Just few facts:
- there was idea how to use tanks together with infantry (agains faustpaton) , tanks are moved in two pairs - one stops and control situation another pair is in movement
- when tanks reachs another crossing of the streats they stand in a formation of cross to controll all four direction (including back) to support infantry
- a self-propelled variant of B-4 203 mm howitzer was used at the streets of Berlin (its disadvantage - low speed - became an advatage as it moves together with infantry)
- during Berlin operation Zhukov also used vessels of Dnieper Flotilla specialy relocated to Spree river to realise suddenness effect for preventing of bridges explosions
With all respect to author he was not right about Soviet Urban Warfare EXPERIENCE, which was collected, documented and used. We all are the same and we all can't know everything.
Perhaps the Germans should have avoided bringing America into the WAR! Why declare war on poor little America. which most of your ideas leave the US out of the results!
Maybe a better way to describe Soviet Urban doctrine was " Find enemy positions and pound the buildings to rubble with the 203mm guns. It was a complaint the German commanders stated after the war, but who cares, it worked. House to house fighting even with pistols and submachine guns only goes so far, the defenders have way to much of an advatntage, you start losing more men to attrition and no commander is going to do that when they had readily available large caliber guns at their disposal.
It is hard to make a nation surrender after you started fighting a war of annihilation. Armistice gains defeated nation almost nothing. It’s do or die.
On the question on the oil supply in the Soviet Union and lend lease: first and probably most important thing - Germany actually 'outconsumed' the Soviet Union in oil products till late 1943 or so. Wermacht literally used more fuel than Red Army for the first half of the war. The main reason here is that while Soviets had more crude oil production their refineries produced mostly heavy oil/masut which was not really suitable as vehile fuel. It was also a reason why Soviets liked diesel engines - diesel fuel was much easier to produce for them than gasoline.
And lend-lease factor played its role in high octane aviation gasoline mostly. About third of the Soviet avgas was American in origin.
Yes, I was about to mention this as well. The Lend-Lease oil products were primarily required for the Lend-Lease vehicles and aircraft that used fuels that the USSR could not produce itself.
Are you related to Bertie Wooster?
Perhaps the Germans should have avoided bringing America into the WAR! Why declare war on poor little America. which most of your ideas leave the US out of the results!
"I'm agreeing with Hitler" -TIK, July 30 2018
And he does this all the time. He's constantly defending Hitler...and worse.
uh based tik
@@haeuptlingaberja4927 He is defending Hitler's STRATEGIC DECISIONS, NOT HIS POLITICS, IDEOLOGIES, OR BELIEFS.
@@haeuptlingaberja4927 please, shut up
@@haeuptlingaberja4927 wait what? I was joking, anyone with a basic critical thinking framework can tell the difference between understanding hitler's strategy and logic and supporting his beliefs
Why do you have such a small following still. It’s one of the best history channels there.
For a second I thought this was an hour long episode just on snow. DAMN!
Don't tempt me
The renaming of Persia into Iran took place in 1935.
It's kinda like the IJsselmere then which, as I found out, a lot of people get really upset over when you call it the Zuiderzee (which is it's proper name btw)
Historically speaking, the country was always called Iran, since the Iranians consider themselves Aryans. The term Persia comes from the Greeks who named it Persia since Pars (A province of Ancient Iran) was the first province they entered during the conquest of the country. It's actually ironic since the Greeks actually call themselves Hellenes not Greeks, yet they called the Aryans Persians even though that wasn't what the Iranians called themselves. I may have been off on a few details, but true story.
And gynocentrism is cancer! Female suffrage is immoral! Egalitarianism is false! Men and women are not equal!
That comment took a turn... O_o
Prussian Union it's the same for a lot of countries. For example there is no country that's called Germany in its native language. The English speakers, east Slavs and other call it Germany; west and sout Slavs call it Nemačka which is actually offensive since it basically means the land of the people that are mute/don't know how to speak
Zuiderzee (Sea) = when it was OPEN to the open sea.
ijsselmeer (Lake) = when it was closed off (save a lock) from the open sea.
14:13 - "..the railroads, Ahhhh..." LOL.. So we did make an impression after all.. The railroad center at Moscow figured large in the mind of Halder as a Prussian traditionalist.. He wanted to take it out.. Would it enable Germany to win? Of course not.. It would have helped, but as you point out, Barbarossa was flawed at the outset... Hitler had made the same mistake as Napoleon, assuming his enemy would surrender or sue for peace. Great video, by the way.
That was a gamble that did not pay off, not a mistake. Mistake was hoping for collapse and peace while waging racial war. He should have gone into russia as liberator and show his true face only after the war was won. I would think half the country - especially the rich parts - would flock toward him in the hope of overthrowing Stalin.
I hope I am not repeating but Gen. Raus of 6th Pz Division said that by the time they got to Moscow there only a handful of tanks left in the division. Sixth Panzer Division started out Barbarosa with primarily Czech tanks, 35(t)) and had one of the largest tank compliments, 3 bns. 254 tanks. They destroyed the last 2 leaving Mosow area. The attrition rate on the panzers getting to Moscow was immense.
The best part about the alternate history channels is that you can tell how much they understand the subject by how absurd the scenario is.
Maybe we could make it into a test for people. "Belgium takes Norway" - ok, you failed
The Germans develop and mass produce a variant of the Maus capable of firing a nuclear weapon. It strikes Moscow and the Soviets surrender.
Also am I right in thinking the next video is about the myth of the "clean Wehrmacht" or something of a similar nature?
Canada builds an icebreaker fleet and attacks northen coast of Russia through the north pole, but entire Russian urban population escape to underground of their cities an live there secretly, while Canadians wonder where everyone go...
Nice, another hour of TIK goodness.
The annoying part is, next week's video is going to take like three times longer to make, and will be significantly shorter. This is why I quite like making videos like this
Refusing to surrender is only an option when you have some secure space left to support war production. Stalin traded space for time. That was easy ; his territory was vast. The most remarkable feat of the SU in WW2 was not military but logistical. It was the successful relocation of a large number of important factories to the Urals, out of war range. Easier said than done. Accomplishing that task under adversity was something Hitler's generals never considered. A detailed account of that achievement is worth a lecture.
I just found your channel & I'm beyond thankful for you clearing up most major misconceptions... Just evidence that any story is incomplete when covering only one point of view!
I'm super happy that you took the time to answer my question about Urban Warfare.
The Q&A experience is a bit strange though, like a pen correspondance / delayed public video chat hybrid thing :)
Would do again, though :)
Haha yes, and as soon as I see a question I want to write a reply! I just wish I had a better answer for you, but the sources I have don't have anything specific on the urban warfare doctrines, other than what Chuikov does
Your answer is good, I kind of expected that there was no specific doctrine for Urban Warfare. I read much less than you did on those battles, so I took the opportunity to tap into your knowledge base to see if there actually was something mentionned somewhere. I believe those battles were both immense in space and condensed in time, so there was no room nor time for niche or specialty doctrine and equipment to be deployed.
Well, a source on Soviet-urban doctine may exist, but I've not seen one. I'm fairly confident that no doctrine existed before Stalingrad though.
TIK I recall reading from Chuikovs Battle of the century that they developed that doctrine and used it later taking those cities which Germans tried to make in to fortresses. Used small assault squads etc.
Alexey Isaev Russian historian explains about it in one video on CZcams too. :)
One urban fighting tactic that 62nd Army learned at Stalingrad was "mouseholing". In blocks of rowhouses, where there is a solid wall dividing each building from its neighbour, the Soviet soldiers would place explosives against the wall, retreat to the floor above or below, ignite the charge, and then attack through the resulting breach. This was considerably safer than moving through the streets. This tactic was also used in Berlin, particularly in the basements/air raid shelters of the tenement blocks. The Canadians developed the same tactic in the battle for Ortona a year after Stalingrad.
Cold War also heavily impacted the historiography of the 2nd Sino-Japanese war too, and we’re still reeling from that. A clear picture of the Chinese United Front is virtually impossible. I also can’t imagine how much of the record was lost in the events after ww2 ended. There’s a very good chance we’ll never get a reasonably clear picture of that war.
Large amounts of Chinese history for the last century are irrevocably altered or destroyed during the communist rule. Nowadays they're a little lighter handed but not by much.
Perhaps the Germans should have avoided bringing America into the WAR! Why declare war on poor little America. which most of your ideas leave the US out of the results!
"The Soviets didn't win any battles but they carried on fighting", sounds familiar to to the American war of independence, the Vietnam war, and every campaign fought in Afghanistan since Alexander the Great.
If you already know English, German is a good secondary starting language to pick up since they're considered sister languages and have relatively similar structures. I took two years of German in High School (US Schooling) and while I can't hold a casual conversation because I'm terribly out of practice, I can read proficiently enough to understand German texts.
Good luck on Russian though, Cyrillic makes my head spin just looking at it.
Regarding the Third part of the question about Urban Warfare in Stalingrad, the Soviets used their experience in the Battle of Berlin. Chuikov (And his staff officers) were asked to produce instructions on how to fight in an urban environment just before the Battle of Berlin, this pamphlet was distributed by Zhukov troughout his front. A part of this was that each Rifle Division had to create a special unit to train in City Fighting. It is however unclear on how much they actually trained due to time constraints.
This information is from David Glantz in When Titan's Clashed (Expanded Edition). Page 329
A knowledge we paid with blood. These instructions were rewritten and adopted multiple times and still in service. They were used in 1995 Battle of Grozny during the First Chechen War and later on.
Being unprepared for winter conditions likely played a role in the defeat, but I've got to admit that your line of thinking rings true. The Germans didn't prepare extensively for winter because they assumed victory would be achieved quickly. I've also read that German intelligence greatly underestimated the Red Army's latent strength, so Hitler and his generals didn't see how Russia could keep fighting after initial defeats.
And I have read that taking Moscow wouldn't have guaranteed victory. Stalin kept fighting after losing other major cities, so Moscow shouldn't have been any different.
According to Timothy Snyder in one of his lectures, one of the reasons Stalin didn't believe Hitler would attack is because the Germans at the border didn't have winter uniforms, so he thought they wouldn't do it.
And yes, I'm not convinced that the fall of Moscow would end the war.
Well one potential difference between Moscow and other cities, as far as I've heard, is that it's pretty much the infrastructure hub of the USSR. You take Moscow and the nearby rail and RIVER lines, and you have just dealt a severe blow to Soviet ability to transport materials about. Just like in the south, Stalingrad wasn't that important as a city, but access to the Volga was, because if you can sit on the Volga you can sever a major Soviet transportation artery. The one in charge fro probably the majority of oil transportation.
Yes, Moscow's function as a transportation hub was important, but the Russians managed to move whole factories well beyond Moscow. "Tankograd" is a good example. I also wonder how long it would have taken the Germans utilize captured resources; especially if they failed to truly secure rear areas. Capturing Moscow might not have helped them if the Russians continued their scorched earth policy.
Well I'm not saying that it would be an immediate win for the Germans, but if it's that central it would impact Soviet ability to carry supplies about. Especially given that Russians have to rely on rail a lot since they don't have much in the way of roads. So like in 42, things would be considerably worse. Plus the morale hit might also impact the rout and when they regained their footing down in the south.
Basically what I'm saying is that while they wouldn't have collapsed instantly, the war ahead would be much rougher on them. Not to mention that they would loose population and industry of Moscow, since you can't move everything from there. Hell I don't think they even had much in the way of plans to evacuate Moscow.
*Well one potential difference between Moscow and other cities, as far as I've heard, is that it's pretty much the infrastructure hub of the USSR. You take Moscow and the nearby rail and RIVER lines, and you have just dealt a severe blow to Soviet ability to transport materials about.*
Well there's old maps of rail lines , www.karty.by/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/railway_SSSR_schema.jpg . If you want to say get supplies to near lake Ladoga or Leningrad your railway from as far east as the Urals say then with a German line a bit before Leningrad to a bit before Moscow there is a bottleneck of about 5 lines. If the Germans encircle Moscow they have a bottleneck of 2-3 lines (depending on if short trips can be made by trucks). However the Germans did actually cut of the 2 laned rails going north to south from Leningrad to Moscow. So essentially they should have already have cut off the Northern theatre from freight at their easternmost extent, however they did only hold this for a short time. Another consideration is that the Leningrad to Moscow line would be under pressure from Luftwaffe being so close to the front, so it's probably less significant then you're thinking even then.
your videos are a real joy to watch thank you for your great work ! take care , ky
One of the reasons was also the fact that those Soviet units that were surrounded, fought longer than others, and longer than the Germans calculated. These soldiers surrounded many German forces. The Germans took the combat units from the offensive and sent them to destroy the surrounded Soviet forces. For example, Stalin said that the people who were surrounded near Vyazma and Smolensk saved Moscow. Their resistance won a couple of days for Moscow, and the city was able to create a militia and pull up other forces. Because these same forces under the Vyazma before were the only defense.
Halder said "we won" after 2 weeks of war, in July. And in August Halder said "we underestimated the enemy".
Prove it
@@MrDead00 The Russian colossus...has been underestimated by us...whenever a dozen divisions are destroyed the Russians replace them with another dozen.
August 1941, from "The World at War" - Page 129 - by Mark Arnold-Forster - World War, 1939-1945 - 1981
One quick google search...
And when the Moscow counter offensive kicked off at the begining of December, Hitler said "The war in the East can no longer be won.". I saw this in at least two sources as being recorded in the war diary of the OKW. If I remember correctly, one source was a book by Sebastian Haffner, The Meaning of Hitler.
You don't stop army group center for two whole months and expect to win. If Guderian followed orders and waited for the infantry on the meause River in 1940, France would not have lost, it was very bad operational planning throughout the war in the east.
Alternate history is fun, I don't think there is anything wrong with it, as long as it's not used educationally. Like you said, it's not really history, more entertainment, I think. Like Dr. Citino would say, fun to do with friends over a couple drinks lol.
You did a very good job explaining what a historian has to do in comparing every source that you can find. Too few authors/historians make the mistake of using too few sources and thus often are overly influenced by the few sources that they do use.
many thanks for your tireless efforts to make such a long interesting video
You said there will be a "tomorrow's video", and I thought: "Oh, I can't wait!!!". I woke up at 7AM (GMT+1), there was no video. It is now 9-48 AM (GMT+1), there is STILL no video! Oh TIK you cruel bastard, why do you do this to me?! ❤️
It is now 9-49AM. How long is this going to take?!
I release videos at 5pm on Mondays, and today's video (Tuesday) will be out at 5pm GMT. So, in another half an hour
Oh mate I was literally joking. The point was to convey that I can't wait for the video. Listening to your Q&A yesterday, I was truly hyped. Just came home, and I'm about to dive into the new upload. Cheers!
@@HistoryMarche lol . But he wrote you to let you know the ETA of his next upload . This dude rocks .
@@HistoryMarche YOU WERE HERE 2 YEARS AGO. I AM DIGGING GOLD HERE!
Hey TIK. Awesome content as usual. Just to elaborate on one of the questions (not mine) tank archives is a blog whose author published articles based on ww2 documents, primarily Russian, mostly on armored vehicles. He/they include scans of the original documents and photographs, but they don't actually test any equipment. A lot of the articles are pretty much summaries/translations of the original sources
Thank you! If they're direct translations, then I don't see any problems with the site. But what I said in the video still applies for the sources themselves.
I thing the owner of the blog Peter Samsanov looks pretty legit.Im a long time reader of his work and I never found passages that over praise the Red Army or its equipment or look down on german stuff or troops.He does not seem biased.His readers also argument their points of view pretty well.I won't say all his sources are 100 % the undeniable truth, but still.
Thanks for your videos , I enjoy them very much , you are a great historian .
I found this whole video interesting. Thanks for your content!
The best series on WWII hands down!
Great analysis and this is a demonstration of the one of Sun Tux’s fundamental rules for what not to do in war. Worked against Napoleon, worked for and against the Allies in Korea, stretching supply chains are demonstrating how critical they are in the world right now.
Great video TIK. I am always very intrigued by WW2, especially this war front confrontation, which is a lesson to us all in one way or the other.
Excellent analysis of historical methodology!
"Snow Excuse" - surely that pun is a court-martial offence.
Sadly the firing squad can't execute me because the men either have rifles with no bullets, or bullets without rifles.
WTB a colab video with you and Chieftain! That would be a great way to do a tank video.
Good points I never thought about. Thanks!
Very profound analysis, thanks
TIK you and the French Stalingrad Data gentleman complement each other perfectly. He speaks fluent Russian but he doesn't speak German and your Learning German. So between the two of you all primary sources are available for translation. I'd love to see the two of you do a collaboration on something related to Stalingrad. Keep up the great work TIK!
That's actually quite a good point! I didn't see it like that :D my reading is slowly getting there - better than my speach. It's funny how I forget it, but as soon as I sit down to learn it again, it all floods back. It's very strange
That's studying germans in a nutshell, heh. Far easier to understand it than to acrobat your way through the grammar to actually say something. It is kind of like seeing math problems solved and go "Oh, of course." while you fail ridiculously on doing them on your own. Well it's not that extreme, but I think it is kind of the same.
If you need any help in translating, i happen to speak Russian, German and English...
01111001 01100101 01100001 01101000 00100000 01100010 01110101 01110100 00100000 01100011 01100001 01101110 00100000 01111001 01101111 01110101 00100000 01110010 01100101 01100001 01100100 00100000 01100010 01101001 01101110 01100001 01110010 01111001 00111111
Will you do a video about operation bagration and the destruction of army group center? Thanks
You remind me of Leon Trotsky
youre a national treasure we need more people like you. very few
In terms of historians in Britain TIK is just one of many fine historians presenting differing views and theories on past events.
Some I have read And watched I may not agree with but I can see their arguments are well presented and researched.
The British university system like it or loathe it has produced many great writers and historians over the decades.
"History is whats recorded" "there needs to be a different word for things like history of the earth because nobody recorded it happen" Sir you just increased my knowledge just like that. Subscribed and will do patreon soon too.
"Ost", the German word for East, is pronounced like "lost" without the L.
Endwar1997 My German is shitty, but it's written as Öst, so, I don't think he's pronouncing it badly
Wow that's incredible (sarcasm)
@@guestimator121 en.langenscheidt.com/german-english/ost- Edward is right
@@guestimator121 No, it's spelled without the Umlaut.
It's more like the "ost" in post. As in post office.
Love your work sir. Thank you.
Hey TIK, just wanted to let you know that I've been studying logic for personal reasons, and your videos help me with that.
All your videos are excellent. Just want to mention, since you seem to struggle with the word: Ost (meaning east in German) is pronounced as OHst. O like in "Oh My." It rhymes with Roast or post or toast.
Russian language is really a challenge. I've learned it alone for several years until I got the chance to visit Russia last year. But it's a beautiful language non the less
Regarding rear area logistics security: I remember reading a first person account of a German conscript. He and his comrades were used as guards on top of the train cars moving supplies forward. Which makes a lot of sense--using the replacements moving forward as guards on the supply chain going in the same direction.
Any student of history need watch your vids. You are one amazing source
One thing that's been bugging lately is from my reading about the late stages of the war, invariably it's stated that the Luftwaffe was almost totally absent from the battlefield in 1944 but supposedly the Germans produced something like 35,000 aircraft that year. How does that work?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_aircraft_production_during_World_War_II
No pilots, no fuel, no leadership. See Herman Goering.
Because by that point in the war German aircraft losses where massive and what strength left they had was spilt between 3 fronts, for example at Normandy in June 44 the Allies had around 10500 aircraft involved the Luftwaffe had around 1500 and lost 931 with of them that month by August Luftflotte 3 only had 75 operational fighters left.
By 44 the Luftwaffe just like the Japanese airforce was simply a spent force, it had lost most of it's experienced pilots earlier in the war and they lacked the fuel to run them and losses where in the thousands each month.
A. Lack of fuel kept them grounded
B. Tooze suggests these production figures may be fiction.
Forgotten weapons channel by Ian macullom will also be your cup of tea i geuss.
Yup, been a subscriber of his for quite a while :)
One does not merely 'subscribe' to gun Jesus 😆
he has allot of great history on arms development and use its awesome :P
I would like to compliment you on the way you framed your background. Half the frame is your books, this adds to your credibility a lot. Other lectures have a blank background, or books but have them covered by them.
I think one of the major problems with the German OOB in WWII was that they would not remove depleted units from the listings and still expect those divisions to operate as if they were still at full strength. This does not help if replacements are not being distributed based on need and not being sent to fill those depleted units. Is is not good for defense(or attack) to deploy division x to cover a sector when they are actually at 10% as if they are still at 90%. It is not going to end well.
Hey TIK, great video, how about one on the British contribution to the war, as I feel they are overlooked and underrepresented in films etc especially once the Americans come into play and sort of take over
Perhaps the Germans should have avoided bringing America into the WAR! Why declare war on poor little America. which most of your ideas leave the US out of the results!
To question 2: Going back to pre-Barbarossa position after Blitzkrieg-failure.
A retreat would make sense . Somehow. The retreating army comes closer to their communication and supply/reinforcements lines. But thats it. It makes sense for smaller units (divisions or corps) for a tactical retreat. If you can break contact with the enemy forces. But in that case we talk about a retreat for more than 1000 km. With the soviet army right behind you. How many soldiers would make that run? And mostly will lost all of their equipment. And then? The pre-Barbarossa positions were not fortified. In this special scenario it was better to hold the line.
Great job!
Cool topic suggestion: How bad the Soviets got mauled in 1941 during Barbarossa and how did they manage to not only survive but rebuilt a better army in such dark times
High losses in manpower and equipment. But what they lost most was obsolete equipment. If you lose your i-16s and bts and replace them with yaks, lag5s and t34s, you build a better army.
lol, first time I ever made the connection: "his-story"
the rest is archeology :)
Really?? Now that is surprising :D In the future I may have to talk about the topic of "history" as it is, and the elements like that which go into it
I was aware that "history" only included written language, which only goes back 5k years or whatever...i.e. "civilization" versus "neolithic and beyond"
Actually, the term is NOT his-story, but rather HI (or Important) Story (as opposed to a tall tale), which is something most feminist get wrong with HER STORY.
you could be right about the etymology here, but i'm skeptical of your anti-feminist bias
David Briggs No, the word "history" didn't come from the word "story". It's the other way around. "Historia" is an Ancient Greek word meaning originally "an inquiry (into the past)". "Story" is a bastardisation of that word got into English via Old French in the Norman Period.
Great video TIK! Besides the winter freeze arguement, I often people will blame Germany's Axis partners, such as Italy's botched campaign in Greece or that Japan missed a chance to collapse the USSR in 1941-1942 by creating a second front; setting aside the diplomacy aspect (like the Hull note to Japan written by a Soviet spy) the latter was just impossible anyway since the Japanese needed a particular resource badly which was not found in Siberia at the time (hint: it's a three letter word).
Seem like some are just grasping at straws in avoidance of the reality; that Barbarossa was extremely over-optimistic and that Red Army was much more capable than previously believed.
Awesome video. Are you planning to produce videos on things like the Syria-Lebanon campaign? I'm interested in hearing you breaking down of what you think of Australian, British, Greek, Vichy French and Italian commanders in terms of the wider conflict.
What was quite an alien type of warfare in a fairly alien type of environment. Like the whys, hows, and different fighting maneuvers in comparison to the 'grand strategy' notions of warfare that seemed to polarize the Axis-Soviet Front?
Breaking down commanders like Sir Henry M. Wilson, Sir Thomas Blamey and Henri Dentz?
If I was a Soviet General and I knew the winter was coming OF COURSE I would build my strategy around it. It's not like it was a freak accident that both sides didn't know was going to happen. The Russians were just better.
As long as he lived, Stalin was never going to sue for peace, so the war on the Eastern Front was always going to be a war of attrition. Germany could never win that kind of war against the USSR. The Nazi leaders had totally misjudged the mindset of the people and leaders of the USSR, just like Japan's leaders had totally misjudged the mindset of the people and leaders of the USA.
In August 1941, Stalin made diplomatic probes with the Germans to sue for peace. But the Hitler rejected his inquiries. Stalin also inquired with Finland around that time.
@@mikegriffin8403; and what is your source for this "information"? From what I know of Stalin, I seriously doubt Stalin ever made any such diplomatic probes. But if you have any real proof of your claim, please let the rest of us know what your proof is.
@@oldgysgt My source is James Ellman's book, "Hitler's Great Gamble" C2019 pages 115-116 "...His [Stalin] actions indicate a man trying to avoid abject defeat when on a least one occasion in the 2nd half of 1941, he put out peace feelers to see if Germany would agree to an armistice. In return, he was willing to cede, in his initial offer, huge amount of territory: Ukraine, the Baltics, and the lands he had seized from Finland, Poland, & Romania!!!!! Hitler discussed the proposal's merits with Goebbels. In the end, the idiot tyrant chose to continue the war. "Molotov described the offer of territory in exchange for an end to the fighting as 'a possible second Brest-Litrovsk Treaty' and said that if Lenin could have the courage to make such as step, we had the same intention now.' {Laurence Rees, "War of the Century: When Hitler Fought Stalin," The New Press, 1999} Hitler seriously considered the peace proposal, and on August 18 he discussed its merits with Reich minister Joseph Goebbels. {footnote: Craig Luther, "Barbarossa Unleashed", Schiffer Publishing 2014, pg 609} Stalin also asked the USA to act as an intermediary with Finland on August 1941 to return all the lands taken in the 1939 Winter War in return for peace..." {footnote: Susan Butler, "My Dear Mr. Stalin: The Complete Correspondence of Franklin D. Roosevelt and Joseph V. Stalin," Yale University Press, 2005, page 40}
@@mikegriffin8403; never heard of the book. It's strange that Mr. Ellman is in possession of such a "bomb shell", but not other WWII historians have ever mentioned these supposed diplomatic overtures. But at one time I read that Hitler escaped Germany at the end of WWII , and lived out his life in Argentina, But I don't believe that either.
@@oldgysgt You must be a libtard: a liberal whose thinking is retarding America's progress. Often, when I present persons, their quotes, and sources that contravene their thinking, they simply dismiss the references out of hand. Which scholastic organization granted to YOU the authority to simply deride evidence without verifying? You REQUESTED the sources, and I took the time to post the THREE PUBLICATIONS that Mr Ellman footnoted in his book. But because of your PC, rotten thinking, you didn't take the time to investigate, let alone skim/read, those publications whose years published and publisher I added to save you some time. JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE NOT HEARD OF IT, doesn't make it invalid. It reveals to all of us that you are ignorant of that historical data. And pretty dogmatic at that, too.
I'm envious of your library
Brilliant video
I like to call those "Alternative History" channels/videos clickbait.
Yeah, I'd definitely agree with that
"What if Nazis discovered secret Yiddish super technology and started building cyborgs and robots? That's what we're talking about today." I love Potential History's Germany Could Not Win WW2 video because it recognizes that a lot of the alternate history takes on Germany winning ignore that they were stupid, insane, and racist.
@@Horatio787 "Yiddish super technology?" I see you been playing a lot of Wolfenstein games. XD.
Exept alternatehisyory hub
@Fuck CZcams AlternateHistoryHud say he done alternate history video, not history. So no.
TIK, would you say that the Germans hoped Japan would invade USSR from the east? They did declare war on the USSR, for various reasons (technically they already were fighting in the Atlantic), but possibly also because they thought if German declares on Japan's enemy, then Japan would declare on Germany's enemy.
I know that today we talk about "the Axis", as if they were an alliance and had meetings and talked strategy together, when in reality they were just "the other guys", and they barely cooperated whatsoever, but I do feel like Hitler counted on a Japanese intervention in Siberia.
I also know that he expected more Romanian and Bulgarian support in the USSR compared to what he got.
Germans did rely heavily on Japanese, but USSR did a few military and political stunts to lead Japan to signing non-agression treaty. Still 1,5 million soldiers were in Far East to watch the border againts most powerfull Japanese Quantong army stationed in China. After Moscow there were reduced to 700 000.
Always appreciate scholarship w/entropy.
Love your videos. I spent lots of time in Germany in the late 60's and the early 70's. Talked to many many vets who served on the russian front. ALL sang the same song. The winter @ moscow in late '41 crushed them. Frostbite accounted for over one-third casualties in their regiments. They never recovered period.
Completely irelivent to history but what guitar is that in the background and do you play often
It's a Gibson SG Standard from US. Picked it up when I visited Texas years ago. I play pretty much every day, and I've committed myself to doing a guitar video. Was going to do it this week, but it'll probably be next week now, so you can judge how good or bad I am for yourself :)
TIK I used to be in a band playing bass, but I much prefer guitar I'm no expert but I would be good to here you play.
Perhaps the Germans should have avoided bringing America into the WAR! Why declare war on poor little America. which most of your ideas leave the US out of the results!
Do you find joy in reading book you deem terrible or mostly wrong? Does how well its written matter as well? Are you sometimes sorry about a book that has a lot of information wrong but still has a few interesting tidbits?
It's never a waste of time because I can use that to my advantage in the videos. And there's always usefulness in every book. Even if 99% of it is wrong or irrelevant - use the other 1%!
Thank you!
Can't wait for that tanks warfare video :) in general technical specification are important but for me it was always a tactics and right use of armored units that is more important than pure numbers about unit it self.
That's exactly how I see it. Hope you enjoy it! It'll be out Monday
TIK oh yeah I forgot mention thanks God you cover a little that holocaust thing I am so sick of denies... Would look to support you when I get job 😁
I reckon really good idea to get into audio discussions (e.g. Discord) with Military History Visualized and Military Aviation History and have them _force_ you to talk (and think) in German. Nothing helps one learn language faster than having daily conversations with natives.
Chess adage: who ever makes the second-to-the-last mistake, wins
The Russian winter gets far too much credit. Napoleon lost more men during the Russian Summer of 1812 than the winter.
@joanne chon ?
This is a very HONEST VIDEO!
The US Handbook on German forces from March 1945 outlines that German Urban doctrine revolved around creating interlinked hard points in buildings generally of masonry with head utilization of booby traps and explosives even mentioning that they utilize molotov cocktails "likely gained from experience on the eastern front". While it's written from a US intelligence officer's perspective it's very detailed and it isn't hard to see where the urban doctrine was most influenced by.
Mr. tik, i noticed your right eye is swollen and a bit, tired, would you like to share? I noticed it alot during this video, i was wondering if you maybe got hurt or something. Or just tired :P
It's a combination of two factors. I'm working 70+ hours a week for this channel (today's been a 14 hour day, and this will be my last comment for the evening) so you can imagine what work is going into Battlestorm Crusader... and on top of that, I once had a stye in my eye. Ever since then it's drooped. But I'm glad you noticed and care :)
Looking forward to it Mr.Tik! Good evening to you.
Please don’t forget to take care of your health! We love you TIK
I love your the videos that you put out, but I hope that you look after your health as well.
TIK, hey Bro, I love your Chanel. Your passion coupled with your careful analysis, always supported with primary sources, make your posts pure gold.
It's sad that you only have 48 k subscribers, there is no accounting for taste. I've recommended you to everyone I know who shares our interest in WWII. Sadly, if you posted funny cat videos you could break 100k.
Awesome! Like! As if winter was only on German side! 😁
The Soviets fight better in the winter because they're cool.
:)
For more info about the Soviet winter offensive in 1941-1942:
The name of the offensive was "Operation Suvorov", standing for one of the Russian generals during the Napoleonic wars, and their objective was to draw the Germans out of the Rzhev-Orel line and, though the Soviets were able to retake Borodino, Kalinin (present day Tver) and other important cities in the Moscow region, there was a German pocket of resistance around Rzhev, called the "Rzhev salient".
This was the latest chanel I expected to reference Paul Harrel xD
Liked it tho
West: Soviets won because of winter!
Me: So winter season in Russia didn't changed all 5 years of war?
West: What?
Me: What?
The Germans were not prepared for winter warfare 1941,Hitler thought the campaign would be over before winter,so they they didn't move winter uniforms, treated fuel and lower viscosity oil to the Eastern front,I believe that had a huge effect on their campaign in the winter of 1941-42,especially as they suffered 800,000 weather casualties,the weather was killing more Germans than the Red Army, but the weather may not have any effect on the rest of the war, as the Soviets developed better tanks,had more troops and out fought the German Army.