Klipsch - Heritage Vs Reference - RF7III VS Heresy IV
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- čas přidán 6. 07. 2024
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With all of the Heritage speakers re-assembled, it's time to dive into a few more compares!
You guys asked, so here we are. The RF7 VS mini-series begins now. This week, the Heresy. Next week, the Forte. Following that, the Cornwalls....And finally, the RF7 Vs the RF7 where we will put the III up against the earlier generation IIs. Make sure you're subscribed. It's gonna be a fun ride. :)
As always, thanks for watching!
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From what I could tell the Heresy blew the 7s away on every single song y'all played. Heresy for the win 💯
Some of what you're hearing is the room, some of this is the recording, and some is the lighter amplification. The Heritage line shines with even minimal power. The 7s need a bit more to really get that extra umph. This was a test not only of the speakers themselves but how they each handle the power dealt.
-Jason
All direct radiator speakers squash the hell out of dynamics. No way to hide that from microphones which do not.
this was fun , looking forward to these next few vids!!!
Thanks for watching! Hope you enjoyed them all. :)
-Jason
I decided on the RF7 III's over the Heresy IV. After watching this video I was a little bit worried, and started second guessing my initial listening tests of both speakers.
For anyone wondering why the RF7's sound crap through the youtube recording, and also wondering why the team wasnt flat out saying Heresy won every track, it's because of the RF7 being a flawed speaker by design, but a great speaker in realistic listening environments.
If your ear (or mic) is at tweeter level or above, there is a suck out in the midrange due to phase and time alignments between the acoustic centre of the dual 10s and the tweeter.
If youre sitting on a normal couch, your ears are more likely to be in line with the top woofer...at that level there really isnt (much) of a midrange suck out. Technically the frequency response is choppy and not "audiophile" flat. But honestly it might be -2 or -3db at 1.3KHZ...
Back to the video, the mic is pretty darn close to the tweeter level on the rf7s, and therefore WE are hearing the flaw in this speaker (midrange suck out).
Where as the team are seated slightly lower and dont experience this phenomenon. Also, it is near field recording of a massively disaggregated acoustic centre. Such a large speaker, the further away you are, the better the midrange flaw will be.. to the point where it actually isn't a suck out anymore.
The speaker performance is closer than this youtube audience would think. And it really is a matter of preference.
I went with the RF7, tall speaker and I'll always be seated lower amd further than the mic was placed in this video. So for my use there isnt a "flaw" ... the heritage range sounds overly LIVE which is awesome, but if you want just a little bit more "live" than say polk, focal, b&w, the Rf7 fits the build. Heritage is somewhat of an acquired taste (I like it), one day I'll own the La Scala, just not today.
I think that this can be corrected with new filters on RF7
In fairness although I prefer the Heresy regardless, it just seemed like there wasn’t enough juice to wake up the RF7’s. Nice work guys! Really appreciate the rime and effort you guys put into these great videos.
Thanks for watching! you guys keep watching and we will keep making em!
-Jason
Ya the impedance drops crazy amount as you start to turn them up how loud I’m not sure but it drops to around 1.9ohms. Which is a massive dip. But wow I love these videos, this is uncharted territory and it’s so fun to watch. Great job guys. I feel like I kinda single handedly drove these comparisons lol I’m sure there were other people that wanted it too but props to doing this. Can’t wait for the next comparison. Was just blasting my rf7iiis last night having a late night listening seshhhh… I run 2 up front and 2 in the back for surrounds rc64iii in the middle and two more rb51ii for backs which I put on top of the rear rf7iiis and turn them pointing behind me. I drive the front stage with a parasound a31 and the rears with an anthem mrx720. This system is for ht and music which it’s used quite heavily for both tbh. I run 2 channel when listening to music and surround, both are amazing in short. I run a jtr captivator4000ulf lp for my sub and wow when you pair those two up it takes everything to a whole other level. You can check it out on my yt channel. Love the vids keep ‘em coming. O btw I forget if you mentioned or not but how many watts is that avr you’re using pumping to dem boys, and it’s an avr right or? Seems alot of people are picking the heresy’s here, I should of played this vid over my system but did so on my phone. When trey said one sounded more live and the rf were more studio he hit the nail on the head so to say. I liked them both very much. But I feel in person it would be a much different story for how they sound alone and compared, lol the phone doesn’t do them justice but I understand why people are quick to jump towards one or another even if It is through CZcams. Rf7iii for the win all day long.
Impedance doesn't really change with volume like you mentioned. The lowest the rf-7iii gets on the bass within typical music is about 5 ohms at about 37 hz due to the tuning frequency of the ported cabinet. At around 140 hz it dips down to about 3.8 ohms. -- Cory
@@PaducahHomeTheaterTV mhh interesting. I’ve been cruising the klipsch forums for some time now and some did detailed measurements with the rf7 but now that I think about it it might of been the iis not the iiis so that makes sense, but they said it dipped down to 1.9 and they said as you turn it up but memory is probably not serving me right. Also I’m pretty sure you were the person I talked to when I was buying my parasound that said this also not word for word but close that’s why you highly recommend the parasound to me for my rf7iiis. Memory might not be serving me right it’s been some years now but thanks I’m glad to know for sure now
Yes, a comparison of H3 to H4 would be great!
Thanks for watching and for your input! Hope to do this one soon!
-Jason
Holy moly what a difference! I am thinking about buying the RF-7 III but I don't know after this video 😱
Check out our RF7 vs RF7 video. We put a bit more power behind the 7s when it was just the 7s being tested. This is where they really start to sing.
-Jason
Great comparison. I really enjoyed this. Of course I’m no closer to knowing which is “better” but that’s the beauty I thunk.
Thanks for watching! If it helps, I was there and I'm still not sure I have a clear "winner." :). Will mostly be preference and use case based to tell which is better.
-Jason
To me, the $3,200 list, Heresy outperformed the, $4400 list, RF7III on each song. I'm listening to the CZcams video on Klispchhorns not my iPhone. Even still, you picked the RF7III a couple of times and I trust your ears in the room.
Can't wait for the Fortes and beyond.
Thanks for doing these.
The recording unfortunately doesn't always get everything across. I was surprised it was such a close race though!
-Jason
@@PaducahHomeTheaterTV you sound like you don’t agree that the Heresy won.
Great video! I have been thinking about the RF-7s for a while now and if they would be a good choice for just 2 channel music as I dont do home theater anymore. I currently have Heresy 1s from 1979 and KG 5.5s from the mid 90s. They both still perform great and look great but the 7s and Cornwalls have my interest. I'm waiting for that match up. Thanks guys
The Cornwall IVs definitely cost more, but are well worth it! I've owned mine for about a year and a half now...no going back!
The CW VS 7s video is live now. Go check it out and let me know what you think!
-Jason
You guys are listening pretty loud. That’s at least 10db over most of my listening though I’ll occasionally crank it to that level.
BTW got my CW4s in from you guys on Thursday. Amazing speakers! They have easily beaten my KLF 20s and sent them downstairs to the home theater. And I really like the KLFs.
Thanks for watching! I can't speak for Trey but my testing and regular listenings are two completely different things. I don't typically push to 11 unless I'm testing something. :)
-Jason
My personal opinion, Heritage Heresy out perform the Reference RF7 ! It is more natural and musical. RF7 may be just good for movie only. Not for audiophile. Thank you for good comparison 👍
Thanks for watching! I love both. Honestly a hard choice between the two!
-Jason
RF-7 III has no bass like they are out of phase from one another. In addition, I auditioned the RF-7 III vs the Forte III. RF-7 III sounded like there was no midrange hardly.
We are considering doing a part 2 with a JC5. Some of what you're hearing is the room, some of this is the recording, and some is the lighter amplification. Would do part 2 with a beefier amp to see if the differences come across a bit clearer with more amp behind it. The Heritage line shines with even minimal power. The 7s need a bit more to really get that extra umph. This was a test not only of the speakers themselves but how they each handle the power dealt.
-Jason
I got to thinking. Is there any possibility you guys could use a stronger amplifier at some point? I think it would prove your thoughts were correct.
We are considering a part 2 on all of these using the JC5. Please stand by. :)
-Jason
I think Trey nailed it when he said the H4's sound live and the 7's sound studio. I have H4's and RF7ii's and totally agree
100%. heritage is like having a live performance in your living room.
-Jason
Looking forward to the RF-7 III vs Cornwall IV.
I just bought a pair of Cornwall IVs and have them sitting next to my RF-7's right now. Let me know if you're looking to add some gen 1 RF-7's to the comparisons.
We actually are. After we finished the II VS III compare, we are considering I vs III and thats not one either of us currently own.
-Jason
Also, are you loving the CWs? Gotta be..
-Jason
@@PaducahHomeTheaterTV You know it! The RF-7s really slam when you put the power to them, but the Cornwalls amaze me with how effortlessly they bring the dynamics even at lower volumes. I didn't fully appreciate the difference until I heard both in my listening space.
On the recording it sounds like the heresy is so much fuller. Something I didn’t expect at all. I thought the rf7iii’s would hit much harder. That makes sense about power but that being said I was just listening while driving and thought the deeper sound was the RF7s. Like I was feeling 100% on that and then I looked and couldn’t believe my eyes. Well now I have to reevaluate what I want now haha if I added an extra amp with more power would that difference go away in the bass or is the heresy just that much better despite being rated for way less low end? :0
Listening while driving? What exactly do you mean?
We are considering doing a part 2 with a JC5. Some of what you're hearing is the room, some of this is the recording, and some is the lighter amplification. Would do part 2 with a beefier amp to see if the differences come across a bit clearer with more amp behind it. The Heritage line shines with even minimal power. The 7s need a bit more to really get that extra umph. This was a test not only of the speakers themselves but how they each handle the power dealt.
-Jason
As always, excellent comparison, thank you very much. My Mac pro received the signal from an ethernet cable and then transmited the signal to an external DAC via a pangea USB cable; then, from the DAC to a NAD preamp feeding a PrimaLuna EVO400 poweramp and then to a pair of Klipsch RP-280F. Does this arrangement reflect the exact sound that you were listening in the room?, of course not but it can tell where the differences are and the magnitude of those differences.
The sound stage of the heresies was as tall, deeper and wider, in all of the tracks, than the RF7III’s one. The RF7IIIs sounded way too tamed and that was very surprising. I did not find the Heresies way too bright, they were sharper (not aggressive) and faithful but NOT bright to my taste. Out of these two, by far, the Heresies for me.
Thanks for watching and for your input! There is no substitute for hearing in person but gotta try and get as close as possible...and every link in the chain makes a difference!
-Jason
Great video now Can’t wait to watch the same comparison the only difference is comparing to Cornwall iv :)
Now that they are all out, what are your thoughts?
-Jason
I have some F3s and matching 7.2 surrounds W/ 12" and 15" subs(model?). The F3s don't do much until they are about 1/2 way up. I imagine the RF7 even more so. Surrounds wake right up and subs are perfect. It's cheap, but I love them.
The F3s were my firsts getting into Klipsh. Love those guys! Got them from Trey and my brother still has them. :)
-Jason
In the video I preferred the Heresys. The 7s sounded somewhat lean and weak. I have the 7iis and they don't sound lean and weak at all. They sound great. It appeared to me the Heresys produce higher dbs with same power input. That may be why I preferred the Heresys in this video. I would like to see a comparison when both sets of speakers are set up to produce the same db output.
Right and this is very important when doing a comparison like these. It’s very tricky like they said because the rf7iii just need more power even tho they’re more efficient. Turning them up more for the rf7iii might fix the db issue but in the end they’re most luckily needing much more power to do what they do best and to get everything out of them. Possibly even for the heresy too. Regardless it’s a valiant effort and I love these videos they did a great job 👏
@@daveycrockett5738 Absolutely! I very much enjoy these comparison reviews as well. I hope they continue, when possible, to do more.
We are considering doing a part 2 with a JC5. Some of what you're hearing is the room, some of this is the recording, and some is the lighter amplification. Would do part 2 with a beefier amp to see if the differences come across a bit clearer with more amp behind it. The Heritage line shines with even minimal power. The 7s need a bit more to really get that extra umph. This was a test not only of the speakers themselves but how they each handle the power dealt.
-Jason
Is it just me or does the heresy’s sound “fuller”?
Some of what you're hearing is the room, some of this is the recording, and some is the lighter amplification. The Heritage line shines with even minimal power. The 7s need a bit more to really get that extra umph. This was a test not only of the speakers themselves but how they each handle the power dealt.
-Jason
It would be cool to pull in some movie tracks, like the train crash scene in Super Eight, or some racing scenes from Ford vs Ferrari. No center channel or sub just listening in two channel. Great job on the comparison. Now I’m watching this on a tablet with Apple ear buds, but for what it’s worth I thought the Hersey sounded better.
Thanks for watching and for the input! We are planning to pull in some soundtrack items when it comes to the center channel but may consider this for future two channel as well. We will see. :)
-Jason
Listening through headphones the Heresy sounds a little bit more lively. RF-7 III would benefit from more power. Sounds like the Heresys’ are getting the upper end of their RMS power rating where the RF-7 is at the lower end of its RMS power rating. Based on what I’m hearing I’d buy the Heresys solely on this video. What kind of power is each getting?
Some of this is the room, some of this is the recording, and some is the lighter amplification. We are using and NAD T778 receiver. The Heritage line shines with even minimal power. The 7s need a bit more to really get that extra umph. This was a test not only of the speakers themselves but how they each handle the power dealt.
-Jason
Q: What was the cross-over set to on the heresy's ?
I wasn't aware that they were running a crossover. They just don't dig very deep.
I have to agree with some of the other comments here, something didn’t seem right in the hook up, were the 7’s out of phase?
Honestly thinking it was the mic or something in the settings. Sounded significantly different in person. That said, We always say; ignore the recording as, it's never anything like it is in person. We primarily create these for the commentary and I hope at that that portion was helpful.
-Jason
@@PaducahHomeTheaterTV
No worries. The commentary was absolutely worth the price of admission, as the saying goes.
For me it's a no-brainer, heresy iv all day long
I have the RF7III and they sound nothing like this. Granted my power amps are D-Sonic's M3a 600m 800 watt, Pre amp AR LS26. RF7 III really does like lots of current.
RF-7 sounds better then Heresy IV and Forte IV. Only Cornwall IV, LaScalla, Klipshorn and Jubilee beat RF-7 III
What do they sound like recorded and played back over CZcams, because that's what you're hearing.
We are considering doing a part 2 with a JC5. Some of what you're hearing is the room, some of this is the recording, and some is the lighter amplification. With a beefier amp to see if the differences come across a bit clearer with more amp behind it. The Heritage line shines with even minimal power. The 7s need a bit more to really get that extra umph. This was a test not only of the speakers themselves but how they each handle the power dealt.
-Jason
Sounds like the 8k vs 7iii video but the 7iii here sounds much worse than the 8k did in that video. Something isn't right with something in the chain.
Some of this is the room, some of this is the recording, and some is the lighter amplification. The Heritage line shines with even minimal power. The 7s need a bit more to really get that extra umph. This was a test not only of the speakers themselves but how they each handle the power dealt.
-Jason
Too bad the heresy protective cover is not in black, for my video projection room!
Pull the grill off. The Matte motorboard and drivers are perfect for that. :)
-Jason
I owned the older version of the Heresys and still own the RF7| and in my main room the RF7 |||s . Way more bass out Heresy but on my end one would swear there is a phase issue with your RF7s ,with that said I have separates running my RF7 ||| s with a powerful Parasound JC 5 so either way you cant go wrong with either speaker but for Home theater as well as 2 channel its a no brainer the RF7 ||| 's are the dragon .👍
We are considering doing a part 2 with a JC5. Some of what you're hearing is the room, some of this is the recording, and some is the lighter amplification. Would do part 2 with a beefier amp to see if the differences come across a bit clearer with more amp behind it. The Heritage line shines with even minimal power. The 7s need a bit more to really get that extra umph. This was a test not only of the speakers themselves but how they each handle the power dealt.
-Jason
Is it okay to put the Heresy IV on bookshelf and upside down?
Off course not but you can place them in your aquarium if you have a big enough amplifier.
Sure thing! We've seen this done on a few occasions where it better suits the listening height. You'll want to put a cloth down though to avoid scuffing the cabinet in case you want to flip back over later.
-Jason
Yes…I’d like to see a H3 and H4 comparison.
I’ll take your word for how both in this comparison really sounded there in the room. On this end, though, the H4’s had balls whereas the RF3’s had been castrated. Maybe they did need more power.
I stil love my 7 iiis
We are considering doing a part 2 with a JC5. Some of what you're hearing is the room, some of this is the recording, and some is the lighter amplification. Would do part 2 with a beefier amp to see if the differences come across a bit clearer with more amp behind it. The Heritage line shines with even minimal power. The 7s need a bit more to really get that extra umph. This was a test not only of the speakers themselves but how they each handle the power dealt.
-Jason
Honestly the heresy sounds way better plus it has a good mid range with more depth and full body more thickness more meat on the bone figure of speech the other ones sounds more harsh more echoey less dampened and very thin less soul and body Pass for sure. The heresy for stereo listening specifically as well take the win ! I could even feel the bass surprisingly considering the other one has a bigger more woofers wow ! Good video now the Cornwall iv to the rf-7 3s now that’s interesting!!
Thanks for watching and for your input! Some of what you're hearing is the room, some of this is the recording, and some is the lighter amplification. The Heritage line shines with even minimal power. The 7s need a bit more to really get that extra umph. This was a test not only of the speakers themselves but how they each handle the power dealt.
-Jason
I don't know the setup (amplifier, etc) and the placement of the RF7 doesn't seem correct for those speakers but in these conditions the difference appears clearly audible even via phone; the Heresys outperform the 7s. The lack of medium of the RF7 here Is clearly audible, compared to the Heresys...
In this setup we are using the NADT778 receiver to power both. This works great for the Heresys but I don't feel its quite enough juice to show what the 7s can really do. While this comparison was fair and accurate in that they both have the same source, we may repeat the process with a larger amp/separates to see if we get the same results.
-Jason
Kool
Thanks for watching!
-Jason
I have a pair of the original RF7 speakers and have sent my son a pair of the Heresy IV speakers.. I should have kept the Heresy and sent him the RF7.
Both are great for different purposes. Also, the 7s are a bit power hungry. If you put the right power behind em, you can't go wrong.
-Jason
I have the rf7 first series with Sansui au alpha 907dr and they sound much better than the rf7III of the video: more' full-bodied, present in the middle and as low, there is a problem in the video, I do not think that the RF7III are inferior to the one
Some of this is the room, some of this is the recording, and some is the lighter amplification. The Heritage line shines with even minimal power. The 7s need a bit more to really get that extra umph. This was a test not only of the speakers themselves but how they each handle the power dealt.
-Jason
Sounds so different between the two sets of speakers off you tube, if I were to go strictly of this video it would be the Heresy's
completely agree. We always say: these videos are for our commentary and to use as a starting point when looking at what to buy. The video sounds nothing like it does in person. Always listen in person before you decide what's best for you.
-Jason
I could not believe the difference but it seems to me the RF7s are out of phase.
Some of what you're hearing is the room, some of this is the recording, and some is the lighter amplification. The Heritage line shines with even minimal power. The 7s need a bit more to really get that extra umph. This was a test not only of the speakers themselves but how they each handle the power dealt.
-Jason
No contest on the first one . Heresy
I thought that was PETER FRAMPTON sitting there.
it is. we just changed his name so not to take the spotlight off of the speakers!
-Jason
If you all don't match up percieved volume for us out here, this is just a circus.
But you must already know that.
Thought that our performance is what made it a circus, no?
We have considered matching but, that's a different test altogether. This particular test is - out of the box, only one variable. The speakers themselves. Matching adds other variables which, is a good test as well but...not the one we are doing here.
-Jason
@@PaducahHomeTheaterTV
I have been a mastering guy for decades, the truth is you *must* balance percieved volume or people will almost always choose the "louder" source. One of the best tools I use is an eq with an algo that does this in near real time. Made a huge difference for comparing tweaks. That being said, Klipsch heritage stuff just whips the hell out of the rest because the dynamics are there. I wish the film industry would balance dialog using Khorns.
Compression on direct radiator speaks is a most insidious type of distortion. You really can't mix music on *anything but* good direct radiator speakers because that compression is universal . If everyone had high efficiency speakers we could have some exciting mixes and masters. Alas, Klipschorns etc are not used because they are far too good. Now that is sad. I hate to listen on my B&W 802s but they work very well for mastering as they represent a best case scenario of the typical (dynamically limited) direct radiator. Flat and lifeless. Paul Klipsch was a genius and "Dope from Hope" papers should be required reading for everyone in this industry.
Why, certainly we would.
Thanks for watching!
-Jason
Heresy IV is the winner here.
I was there. I edited the video. I watched it several times. And im still not 100% decided. May have to make a part 2. :)
-Jason
The HERESY sounded FULLER on every song....I felt the RF-7 III sounded "out of phase"???? or something.
A lot of this can be attributed to it being a recording and some of it due to the Heresys being overall more efficient. With the lower power rating of the amp, it could be the battle wasnt fair to the 7s. We may go back and re-shoot with more power and see if it yields the same results.
-Jason
Heresy is my choice. With a big advantage over RF
Thanks for watching and for your input!
-Jason
The Heresy....my dream speaker I will never own.
Thanks for watching! Never say never. They could be yours in the future. :)
-Jason
@@PaducahHomeTheaterTV oh how I wish lol
Bands: we hate using the speakers that the live venue provides
"Audiophiles": I need those speakers from the live show
Car audio enthusiasts: I need 4 15" subs and 20 10" subs
Biggest problem is that most venues cheap out and use really bad speakers. When you find a place that doesn’t do that it can be magical. The Ryman in the balcony and Nashville City Winery are my favorites.
@PaducahHomeTheaterTV fair points you make.. a 500$ Peavy PA isn't the end all of a good system and far too often musicians are using poorly matched venue gear or underpowered personally owned gear. Thankfully I am a trumpet player and make my own hot air...
I currently have klipsch kp500 fronts 504c center, a very easy-on-the-ears system; not perfect. I'm thinking of going to klipsch forte 2-4
Sounds like the RF-7 III bass speakers are disconnected hahha
Some of this is the room, some of this is the recording, and some is the lighter amplification. The Heritage line shines with even minimal power. The 7s need a bit more to really get that extra umph. This was a test not only of the speakers themselves but how they each handle the power dealt.
-Jason
Heresy through and through. Not close.
On a side note, it really is true, if you’ve heard one country song, you’ve heard them all. :/
Love the Heresy's myself but the 7's are a different beast with more power. This ended up being a test not only of the speakers themselves but how they each handle the power dealt.
-Jason
I'll take the Heresy iv's all day everyday over the RF-7III.
it's good to have choices. :)
On CZcams the heresy is much richer and better sounding.
The recording will do that. I love both but the battle is much closer in person. :)
-Jason
Heresy's all the way better depth clarity and soundstage
Thanks for watching!
-Jason
plz dont go with the bs white wall!! get those walls behinde, and around the screen. in some nice black, or gray tones. so the screens brigthness, dont destroy your movie experience. its such a ez thing to do, and makes an so much better experience! so dumb to not do it, when you invested so much into gear.. why fall of, on these small but really big game changers?