Forte IV Vs Heresy IV
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- čas přidán 26. 03. 2021
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Paducah Home Theater / PHT TV - Ep. 22 - Forte IV Vs Heresy IV
The battle of the 4's
After the release of the Forte IV, we posed the question; "would you guys like us to go back and re-do the Heresy vs Forte video, now that both are updated to a gen IV?" The response was an overwhelming "yes" on every front. Happy to oblige, we had no idea what we were getting ourselves into. With the updates to the Heresy increasing its low frequency capabilities, mixed with the updates to the voicing of the Forte bringing its high frequency capabilities to the next level, this battle was far closer than we ever imagined it would be.
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As a punk and heavy metal fan, I really appreciate that you tested with "non-audiophile" music on these speakers. The number of people playing smooth jazz to demo Heresy and Fortes is maddening to me. But this actually helps me a lot
Thanks so much! You guys rock!!!!
Here to help! Thanks for watching!
I loved the comparison and the interactions between you both! it made me feel immediatly related to you guys and the situation of comparing 2 good products, you guys made me chuckle a couple of times. Please please keep doing these comparisons just like that, genuine, spontaneous and unrehearsed.
I don't know if it has being done or suggested, but what about a comparison between the 2 Fortes', III and IV?
Great job Tray and Jason!
Thanks for watching! We are happy to hear you enjoyed the content. These are always 100% spontaneous and unrehearsed. Neither of us are at all the "scripted" type of people. We aim to help in a (hopefully) entertaining way, and provide insight on awesome products. It helps that we have fun doing this as well. :)
We did a compare of the FIII and FIV a few days after the IV released. Click on the channel link and you should be able to find it pretty rapidly. It was Episode 15. While you're there, if you're not already, please click that subscribe button to see new content as it comes up and let us know if there's anything else you'd like to see!!
Thank you Guys for an entertaining honest review. I own the Heresy IVs and pair them with an Unity Atom and Definitive Sub and absolutely will have these speakers for life.
awesome, enjoy. -- Cory
Thank you for the review! Didn't really help but still think I will ABSOLUTELY be happy with Forte iv
Thanks for watching! it was for sure a close one. I'm confident in saying you are correct. You will definitely be happy with the Forte IVs :)
Of all your comparisons - this is the hardest to tell the difference! I think the only way with these two would be a live test.
Thanks for watching! This was a tough test but, with any of these, always do a live test before buying. What you hear over the recording is not what we hear in person. Hit up Cory with Paducah Home Theater and you can look into staying at his HiFi B&B. Demo them all before making your decision. :)
Had Heresy ll, Forte l back in the day.
Love them both.
Heard the H4 and F4 side by side.
Can't go wrong with either choice.
I decided to go with Forte iv .
Sweetspot Goldlylocks of the Heritage series.
Walnut is beautiful.
Forte is more open and natural sounding and balanced without losing the Klispch sound.
I do have a soft spot for the little big guy Heresy.
Klispch did well with the heritage series.
Thanks for watching and for the input! They are both amazing products and its certainly hard to choose. That said, once the choice is made either way, I don't think I've heard anyone be disappointed in either.
-Jason
Fun comparison! Ran the same tracks on my Heresy´s iv. Flicked between "pure" and with my Svs micro 3000. And still in "pure" mode I fall in love again with my Heresy´s.
Appreciate these comparisons. Have listened to most of the Heritage comparos. I have to say I’m happy the Heresy is super close to the Forte at least based on the comparison in sound from CZcams (always questionable).
A few comments/questions:
- What gear was used to do the audio recording? It sounded relatively low-fi (very sorry if that seems harsh), but the video was still VERY useful for comparison, and I’m grateful nonetheless. More of a curiosity thing.
- Whomever does the editing, it seems they wait until the final segment to put in the graphics showing which speaker is currently playing. Maybe you guys have a reason for that, but it would be far more useful to know throughout the video.
- I am limited in how far out from a wall I can go, given I have a large, but multi-use greatroom with attached studio. For example, my KEF R3s front panel is 24” into the room, and they are about 12” deep. I have them placed in front of GIK absorption/diffraction panels. I get very satisfying sound from my current setup, even though it’s a lot of cubic footage. Would the Heresy do OK relatively close to a wall vs the Forte? I could have the front panels a bit deeper into the room, but not a whole lot. I feel like the Fortes wouldn’t work as well due to that big passive radiator in the rear.
Thanks again for the comparisons. I got here from Steve Huff’s channel (been watching/reading him for years), and live in Lexington.
Not harsh at all! We appreciate the feedback. In the first season, we were recording all audio straight off of our Lav mics. We saw no point in getting deep into the recordings as, there are too many variables (mic, compression, end user setup, etc) to provide an accurate listening experience over the internet. These were primarily designed as commentary as opposed to accurate listening. This goes hand in hand with the reveal of which speaker is playing when. The design was such that, we wanted people to listen to commentary before making a decision on which unit they thought was better, based on a (not very good) recording of a speaker.
All of that said, many requests and much feedback from the community, we actually upgraded mics starting in season 2 and started revealing which speaker is playing throughout. Had good intentions with the initial design but...gotta give the people what they want. :)
As for the Heresy's vs the Fortes, my answer would have been different with previous gens, as gen IV Heresy is the first with the rear port. You'll want both heresy and forte pulled out a bit, but you'll want to be a bit more careful with the Heresy design as opposed to the Forte. A passive tends to be a bit more forgiving than a ported design.
-Jason
@@PaducahHomeTheaterTV All makes sense. Re speakers I’m probably leaning toward the KLH Model 5 at this point. I suspect it’s somewhat more wall-friendly. Thanks very much for taking the time to reply. Keep up the great work!
It actually helped a lot. I was really wanting the Heresy but if i'm spending that much, what's a little more if it's worth it -- so to know they're so close makes my choice easier and i won't have to wonder if i should've spent the extra and made room for the larger. Thanks!
Thanks for watching! You're going to be happy whichever way you go! They are both amazing products. That said, if you do go with the Heresy, you may consider purchasing a subwoofer to add to the mix. I would recommend it either way, but more-so with the Heresy than the Forte. I always run my SPL-120 with my Heresys and they certainly don't disappoint. Shoot Cory or Steven at Paducah Home Theater a message when you're ready to pull the trigger. They will be able to help with any last minute considerations. Also, Throw some pics up on the Klipsch Owners Facebook page when you get em. Would love to see the new system!
-Jason
From my phone i was right with you, depending on the track which one is better... A must review live type of challenge.
Ive got a pair of forte 3s I got from Corey a few months ago. I’m looking to upgrade my integrated amp. Any suggestions?
What do you have now? Our most popular ones are the Cary SLI-80 HS if you want tubes, or the Parasound Halo HINT6. The Parasound has the most functionality and is the most popular by far.
I like the comparisons, but what is SO ANNOYING is that they flash on (if at all)what speaker is on so fast it gets confusing. Please CONSIDER putting up which speaker is on, and KEEP IT ON until you switch back! CCC Austin, TX
Hopefully we can just get away from all this completely. Kind of tired of getting schooled on it when we admit up front that it's a sub-par way of auditioning speakers and only done for entertainment purposes. Yet it gets used for auditions.
Any plans for testing different amps..tubes..with some of the klipsch speakers? I have some rp 600 m with a class A 20wpc custom localy built ..with some russian tubes 6p3 c wich i can change with 6L6 and 5881.
I was expecting this combo heresy iv vs forte iv you didn.t made things easy. I need to test them
I don't think we're going to get into various tubes. May be talked into something like a Cary tube amp vs. a Parasound solid state but that's probably about it.
Maybe you might want to place forte iv closer to the wall to get more base, since those 15” passive woofers are blowing out the bass frequencies from behind of the forte iv towards to the wall that is expected to rebound those low frequencies to the audience.
Thanks for watching! Prior to rolling the cameras, we move both speakers around to try and get both pairs of speakers at their best, while still providing a fair comparison.
Awesome work! You would think that the larger volume and the 15" passive of the Forte would give it tighter yet lower bass.
It was certainly an interesting compare. I loved having these two side by side. :)
-Jason
What I'm wondering is what speakers do these guys own? Also wondering how the Forte's crossover would sound in the heresy. The crossover frequencies are different on these speakers and it is audibly noticable.
I (Jason) use Heresys as my mains. Trey uses LaScalas as LCR with Heresys as rear surrounds. These are our main listening environments anyways. It would be a long list if we started listing everything.
The Crossovers are for sure different. That said, they are specifically designed for each speaker and to bring each driver to its peak performance within the system. With the difference in designs, I would imagine swapping the crossover would not yield great results.
Hopefully you guys do a review of the La Scala versus cornwall IV no that would be bad ass especially if you guys could play better music but I understand with copyright what I meant by better music was music that a lot of people know like Lynyrd Skynyrd maybe some hip-hop to hear how the base sounds or pop music and then some like Eric Clapton old love or Layla or even zz top but I got to say I like the videos you guys do it’s great now we’re waiting for the Cornwall versus La Scala if you guys could do that you guys are pretty bad ass... also it would be really helpful I mean it’s not very hard to notice a difference but if you could announce in the video when you’re switching over between each speaker that would be great like someone hold up a sign beside you as you’re about to switch and on the sign or a piece of paper it says the name of the speaker that’s playing something like that I don’t know instead of some of us having to guess.
Thanks for watching! As long as nothing insane is released, prompting a different last minute video, The LaScala vs Cornwall video will be released next week! Make sure you are subscribed to be the first to see it when it drops!
As for the music, we would love to use other/more standard cuts but unfortunately due to copyright restrictions, we can only play the music we have permissions to use or the video will be pulled/banned. All of that said, our opinion isn't solely based on what you see. We play other tracks off camera to get a more wide variety before providing our opinions. :)
As for the switching/showing what is playing, we actually took a pole early on and decided the best way to handle this. Putting labels on the screen tends to create a bias for the listener. People tend to perceive the best as the bigger or more expensive unit when, that's not always the case. What we do do help with that is, with the first couple of tracks, there are no labels telling you which is which. This allows you to listen freely and make up your mind for yourself and have an unbias opinion. About halfway through the video, we add labels on screen to show you which is playing to confirm your original thoughts. Watch all the way through and see if your original take on the speakers is correct about which is which. Let us know what you think!
listening with my headphones at high volume, i can hear the low end is significant deeper with the forte, especially when you play Dreakon.
Both speakers have improved since their gen 3 counterparts. Lows have improved on the Heresy and the Forte has improved overall and fits more in line with the rest of the Heritage products. There is for sure a difference in LF though. Not only in the amount of bass, but also in the type of bass. The difference in the ported cabinet vs the passive radiator shines as well.
-Jason
@@PaducahHomeTheaterTV thank you for this video, Jason
My Heresy IVs ( with bad ass sub)!has ended my terrible search. Awesome
They truly are remarkable speakers.
It seems that both of you were struggling to tell a difference between the two speakers and that tells me that I may as well get the Heresy's.
Thanks for watching! Wouldn't say we were struggling to tell the difference. 100% could tell the difference. It's more that we were trying to determine if additional cost was worth the upgrades you get between them. With them both being great units, it's going to come down to budget and what you're using them for. Personally, coming from using the HIII daily, and only hearing the FIII before these tests, I was super impressed with the 4th gen upgrades that came to both units.
-Jason
Couod we see an RF7III video and history and battle with those? That be sweet
Thanks for watching! We plan to do some work with the RF7s but we were working our way through heritage line first. Stay tuned! :)
Not surprised by this at all. Folks give the forte the one up off pre-conceived expectations. Heresy has a much longer history, and with it, some baggage. The H4 is a much different speaker. Love mine.
Thanks for watching! I (Jason) 100% agree about the pre-conceived expectations about the two. The size alone has some of this impact. That said, the updates in this 4th generation on both speakers were significant and made this compare quite difficult. Listening to the HIII on a daily basis, I'm impressed moreover every time I hear the IV. :)
3/2024: Hello from the Future. I can understand why the Heresy was intended to be a Center Channel Speaker. It excels at that. They both do sound good. Based on pricing, I may buy the Forte IV. The Cornwell is a bit more than I need presently, or care to spend now. I do prefer the Forte IV over the Heresy.
4/2024: But maybe, The Heresy after all... Thanks Guys
Why do you demo speakers at such high volume, am i missing something
I think they both sound around the same.
Forte more open sounds more spaced out less congested. A little bit more detailed more forward more clarity you can hear A little bit more clarity and sharpness.
But I also find the mid range sounds kind of tiny kind a like banging on pots and pans.
Heresy Iv
A little bit more recessed more muted matted sound but I would say definitely more full-bodied sicker and a little bit more warm rounder sound with the mid range but things sound but less separation less clear and airy as the forte Almost sounds a bit muddy by comparison but all in all I would say sounds more balanced.
I don’t really like either one of them. I have Cornwall Iv and still I am trying to sell them.
But if I had to choose which one I liked from this video to my ears I’d say forte Iv
Of course this is just my opinion nobody nobody should really give a crap lol like what you hear is the message and go for it. 🤘
Couldn't agree more about the last statement..not the nobody should give a crap part lol...but that you should go for what your ears tell you is best. Take everybody's (including our) opinion with a grain of salt and go have a listen for yourself! :) Thanks for watching!
I have tested a pair of Heresy IV´s in my room which is quiet small at 11x11 and they sounded rather nice although a bit bright at times. Do you think the Forte IV´s would be an option in such a small room?
There are a lot of other factors that will come in to play and, you will want to tinker with your placement configuration a bit to get the best out of them.... but that said, yes, typically if the Heresys work well in a room, the Fortes will as well.
-Jason
Hello from Texarkana!
Hello! Thanks for watching!
Soundtowne...where I started my Klipsch career. 83
@@treycannon2275 been in there a few times. 🙂 Our paths could have crossed then...
Thanks for that very inconclusive, yet honest
conclusion. I wonder if your age differences
(degree of hearing loss...Trey!) plays a part?
I’m 62 and I’m sure I perceive the sound out of my Heresy’s different than my kids do. I love the cut-in shots of the speakers👍🏻
Thanks for watching! That's all we want to do here is be honest. :). If we don't know, and there isn't a clear winner, we will 100% tell you that.
It is for sure possible that the age difference plays it's part. Trey has listened to a lot of loud over a lot of years. My (Jason) hearing for sure isn't perfect either, though. Had my fair share of concerts and intense listening over the years. The types of music the two of us like/listen to on a regular basis also makes a difference to the way we think the speakers *should* sound. In the end, these are all opinions, and we will recommend to anyone that asks to...before pulling the trigger on any speaker....have a listen for themselves. Hearing them in person is what will make the decision for each individual.
@@PaducahHomeTheaterTVYour honestly is refreshing. One of the things Trey mentioned that I’ve found with my Heresy’s, and can’t be stated enough, is speaker location and placement. Getting that right for one’s listening position is EVERYTHING to showing how enjoyable and impressive the soundstage of the Heritage line can be.
Guys just started the video and I’m having the same problem I did with the other comparison videos.. you don’t make it very clear which one is which when doing song demos 🤦 well atleaat half way through you Got it together. Idk if you’re doing that for a reason so we aren’t sure which one is which so possibly prejudice doesn’t get in the way but it’s kinda annoying lol. Cool vid. Will you please do a comparison of the rf7iiis with heritage lines. Start off with forte or heresey and possibly move to Cornwall. That would literally be such a big deal for me to see a video like that and to hear yours thoughts. Thanks!!
Thanks for watching! Yes it's on purpose, and yes its for the reason you mention. Postponing the reveal allows for listening without bias.
As for the RF7 compares, we plan to do this soon! Had some scheduling conflicts so I have been shooting the videos that I can run solo until Trey and I can get back together for the others. Coming soon though, promise. :)
-Jason
@@PaducahHomeTheaterTV Stand up guy as always I appreciate you and your videos
The Forte 4s sounded a lot cleaner in midrange and fuller bass , the Heresy 4 sounds dull and to me echoing , the Forte 4 was very close to the Cornwall 4 , I had to listen several times but I decided the Cornwall 4 had slightly better mid bass . The difference between the Heresy 4 and Forte 4 was much larger and I would spend the money for Forte 4 , but cannot say I would spend the money on Cornwall 4 . I will wait to hear the new KLH model 7s
Thanks for watching and for your thoughts! The whole newer line of heritage is great. The Forte IV is pretty intense but with the updates to the Heresy, it's certainly no slouch either.
I'm a bit surprised Heresy IV can keep up with Forte IVs in the mids considering the Forte IVs has a larger horn with mumps.
The Heresy is a beast! Lots of love for the little guy in the Heritage line!
-Jason
@@PaducahHomeTheaterTV They both use the same compression drivers, so should sound similar.
Personally I much prefer female vocals on the Forte over Heresy so there's probably more to it than that. Otherwise it would be like saying well a Jeep Wrangler and a Dodge minivan both have the 3.6L engine so they should drive about the same. ;)
@@PaducahHomeTheaterTV Of course that's correct, cabinet size, horn size, crossover etc.
But I was saying they also shouldn't sound like night and day either.
Thanks for your efforts over the years, much appreciated!
If they are that close then the win should go to the Heresy on account of lower price. Great comparison
Thanks for watching! It was for sure a close battle. Best bet for those looking to purchase, Go listen to the music you like through both sets. One may sway you in one direction or another. What type of music you are listening to plays a big role.
@@PaducahHomeTheaterTV Yes. I am planning to preview the CW against the Forte (and the LS just for kicks) when I gird the loins sufficiently enough to buy it
Forte!!!
Forte is a beast!
Please try some Early Rainbow or latter day Black Sabbath with Ronnie James Dio. Thank you.
We would love to but unfortunately due to copyright restrictions, we can only play the music we have permissions to use or the video will be pulled/banned. All of that said, our opinion isn't solely based on what you see. We play other tracks off camera to get a more wide variety before providing our opinions. :)
Ok while I love your reviews and detailed comments!!!........I just don't get how you seem to make the biggest mistake in your great room of having speakers so close to the front wall. The Forte' much more than the Heresy needs more room from the front wall. You guys address this from time to time in passing in your reviews but why not correct for this and give your speaker testing some breathing room as required. The Forte's in other reviews are very picky to position, yet should be much much better. Thanks guys, just sayin'........and keep up the great work otherwise. (And hey, where do I find your test system specs??)
Thanks for watching and for the constructive criticism. I agree with you to a degree. We do a lot of moving of the system (and our seats) before we start rolling the cameras to determine what positioning is best to be the most fair to both units being compared and found this location to be the one. One other thing to take note of is the black wall behind them. While they could be further out, they are nowhere near as tight to the wall as they appear. The black wall makes them appear a lot closer.
-Jason
@@PaducahHomeTheaterTV Thanks for your reply. To clarify, your 'black wall' is what I call the Front wall. I think the wall the speakers are on are referred to as front wall. If you are saying they are not too close to the front wall, I am wondering how far........ as the Forte's would need at least a good 18" as I have read having that crazy rear woofer......the Heresy's can do a foot or even less from the front wall as they have far far less bass and dont need to breath as much but all the Heritage Series are known for very picky placement. It actually makes a huge difference for the listener.
But this is not why I replied..........I would please like to know as asked your system when testing. (Specifically, AMP and if you are using the amps DAC or if its analog through a CD player DAC or Media player DAC etc etc. Just good to know for us peeps and will add much value to reviews stating the test system specs no?. The microphone can be of interest to some too.) Keep up the great work guys........I have watched many more and love the great comments you give...........and hope my friendly feedback helps this channel I will now subscribe to.
Black/Back are too close words haha...should probably refer to it as Front of house to avoid confusion. As for the distance from the wall, If you pause around 4:26, you'll see a shot of the speakers against the wall. The beam you see in the back is a 6x6 and the speakers are 6-10" from there -please excuse the rough estimate...its been a little over a year since this one came out. :) - so, roughly 12-16" from the FOH wall. The black wall likes to suck everything in and make it appear closer on camera than it actually is in room. Setup sounded pretty great for both speakers!
As for the setup, the audio came straight out of my computer into the Cary (SLI80-HS) utilizing the computers DAC. While I can tell you it is was a higher end computer, I cannot say the exact specs on the card as I don't recall and no longer have that specific computer. As for the recording Mic, we were just pulling the audio from our Lavs (Sennheiser ME 2) at this point. In later and current videos we use a dedicated separate microphone (Sterling Audio ST131) and track for the recording of the speakers.
As always, thanks for watching and hope this info helps! :)
-Jason
You should play a different genera when undecided.
Put on a pop song and a red say.
Chorus 2 is the best
Thanks for watching! do you have Chorus?
-Jason
@@PaducahHomeTheaterTV yes with the fantastic rotel rhb10 and rhc10 ... amazing
Forte sounded a little drier to me.
They both have their pros and cons. Between these two, I really have trouble selecting my favorite. Really in the end will come down to someone's room and budget...as well as a lot of personal preference and what they are listening to.
-Jason
Vocal on the forte are a tad nicer, more instruments on the heresy.
The heresys seem to sound boxier (at least over CZcams...)
Everything sounds different on CZcams. :) Check them out for yourself and go listen in person if at all possible!
-Jason
Forte sounds way more natural in every regard. Voices are metallic, shiny, compressed, thin with the heresy which has more vital, agile, could pseudo dynamic kick and grit but this is no real homogeneous sound. The Forte plays unrestrained, more bodily without any effects that pretend to sound dynamic. No coloration with the Forte, more balanced, self-understanding, more refined, less fatiguing, less compressed. But the bite and attack of the brighter sounding heresy is addictive at first. In the end, the Forte is the ripe and serious loudspeaker. It helped a lot. I would buy the cornwall 4 or Forte 4 of they offered ot on light maple veneer or painted satin finish like white or black. It is a pity they do not serve European design tastes because I love the form factor, otherwise (Bauhaus, Cubism).
I can get you light maple Fortes, at least if you're in the US. Actually I can get you all kinds of fun stuff... ebony macassar, hawaiian koa, burled walnut, dozens of options. They're not cheap but it's available. -- Cory
Surely the mark of a terrible design that you can move your head a few inches lower and transform the sound. Not something my Tannoy Kensington GRs suffer from!
In all speaker setups, the room, the speaker position, and the listening position play huge roles in the experience. Seeing as we typically set these up the same day as the shoot, there are sometimes findings that need to be corrected along the way.