Great video and right on the money. They are self regulated (=unregulated) and focused only on profit. They boom taking place right now makes this the absolute worst time to buy a new unit in my opinion. Quality has always been lacking but I feel like there is even more risk of issues now. We were camping last weekend and our neighbor was doing an overnight test run. Loose faucets, water wouldn't continue to function, and a few other minor items. I felt bad for him but he had the right idea. Luckily his dealer is 10 minutes from where we were camping. There was a time that I was worried about buying a used trailer and having to fix stuff. Now I realize how simple these are and I know that what I do will be higher quality. Used only for me from now on. While I know there are issues I go into this informed. I do that because quite frankly I love camping. Been doing it my whole life. Won't let this stop me. If I know what I am getting into up front I can be prepared to deal with it. Do yourself a favor and do the same. It makes owning a travel trailer more enjoyable.
You absolutely hit the nail on the head - it is very evident you are an informed buyer who understands the challenges and the points we wanted to convey here to help people open their eyes and ask better questions. It is very difficult - actually impossible in our opinion, to make such a bold statement as to which is "the best" (as so many others have asked) when quality is being compromised across the board as all manufacturers struggle to keep employees (they all move to get pay increases because there is such a shortage now, so experience keeps moving on) AND it seems to us that all are pushing units out the door as fast as they can in response to demand - with consequences for the buyer. We get to see so little in the big picture on factory tours, in terms of all the considerations related to buying... such as after-sales service, the dealer relationship (that plays a HUGE part) and even management changes and line changes - which occur with regularity. NO brand is guaranteed of being issue-free. We agree now is not a good time to buy new for the reasons you outlined and used is better... specifically from an era when quality was generally higher. We cannot and do not actually "recommend" ANY new RVs...What we do recommend is that buyers get educated, manage their expectations, and go in with eyes wide open, anticipating there WILL be issues, and there are zero guarantees... except you will end up having to fix things yourself, so just be prepared to deal with them to increase your chances of your happiness and enjoyment of the lifestyle. Too many people in our opinion put their faith and 'the power' into a particular brand hoping it will work out for them - and they are missing the whole point of our video and your comment. You are very smart in your approach and we agree 100%. Our next RV will be high quality from a respected brand and used - we can fix the inevitable issues for way less than the cost of new and also avoid much of the inevitable depreciation. Even if we were in the market and financial position to buy new right now, we would not - we'd go back a couple of years. We are also concerned about the current models being pushed out the door out as a result of the boom and resulting compromised quality. Too many corners are being cut industry-wide right now - because they can and people will buy them anyway. Buyer beware. Thanks so much for taking the time to share your educated insights!
I just watched the video and can't agree with you more in your point of view, that RV Customers need to do more to educate themselves on how these things are built. It is even more important in this RV growth period to do your homework as there are many manufacturers who are only interested in making a fast buck and are turning out junk. Add to this a shortage of skilled labor, non-existent "Lemon Law" legislation governing RVs, unscrupulous dealers and sales representatives etc. you need to do as you suggested a few "Factory Tours". Having recently completed two, with my wife in tow I can attest to how much I learned and how I now have a much better understanding and rationalization for the significant difference in price between two similar length 5th wheels. The surface treatments might be pretty, but it is what's under the floor, behind the walls and hidden from view that in my mind count's most. I am going to mention a name, only because my wife and I were that impressed with everything we were told and from what we witnessed on our tour. Because I have seen some of the junk being mass produced, read many of the the horror stories, done months of painstaking research and heard a lot of the bull-shit, I was overally impressed by Agusta - The RV Factory and their LUXE 5th wheel Brand. After meeting some of their Management staff, touring the factory, talking to production line workers, asking lots of questions and being allowed to take pictures, my faith has been restored. There are RV Manufactures out there who care and are trying their very best to do things right and the way they should be done. The RV Factory units are NOT mass produced. They only use the highest quality materials throughout. They employ state of the art manufacturing techniques when it comes to the frame, floor, wall, roof, insulation, paint, and electrical components that you would expect in a high-end 5th wheel. But most of all they have a genuine interest in their "CUSTOMERS". From everything my wife and I witnessed, they really want to please and really want the buying experience, the delivery, and ownership experience, to be exciting and "SPECIAL". While I have one more Factory Tour to do before I make my final decision, unless New Horizons, impresses the hell out of me, I am ordering a 2019 LUXE 39' FB 5th wheel from The RV Factory.
RVLove | Marc & Julie Bennett So what I am getting from your video is to fix up that 50 year old 24’ Prowler I just pulled of the mountain. It is structurally sound. It is ugly (paint is weathering off). It is dated and looks dated. My wife and I are not fans of the layout at all. It needs a little work on some things, but it works for the most part. Fridge doesn’t chill when using propane. One set of windows has stripped gears on open/close mechanism, so it opened in the wind when we towed it off the mountain a couple weeks ago. The brakes seem to pretty much not work. I feel the tiniest of resistance when applying it. The cushions are lousy and need replacing. BUT, It has been under one owner essentially for almost 50 years. My grandparents bought it in 1972. They took it literally everywhere. I wonder how many thousands of miles they put on it. My parents took it over around 1990 and used it for a few years (towing it with a small SUV, a GMC S15 Jimmy, probably 5,000 lbs. GVWR) and used it a little. It sat for about ten years. Then I took it over in 2005. I fixed it up except for the aforementioned things, and put it on some mountain property in Colorado (dry and high at 8-9000 feet). So, it might be better to fix these few things myself and use the ugly thing. Sounds like if I buy new anytime soon, I will be fixing a lot anyway. Do I have that right?
with Covid - even more campers are being bought... my guess is many will learn "the hard way" that the RV life is NOT for them and there may be some deals to be had in a year...
Michael, good chance you are right. The other thing that I think of is just how bad is the quality going to be on the units being built now??!! Are they rushing even more to catch up from the shut down? Ugh.
One thing to add....Every RV dealerships #1 goal is----selling another RV. Make sure you go over your used or new RV with a fine tooth comb and do not sign on the dotted line until every single item on "the checklist" is completed. The sales manager will be on the service manager to get YOUR RV repaired first before any of the others because they need to get your RV off of their floor planning cost and get paid for that unit. Once you sign the paper and the money transfers, you will no longer be holding that over their heads and your RV can sit for 2 months waiting for parts for all they care. To make that sale, they will make things happen.
I miss Elkhart county :( I lived in Nappanee for almost 5 years. All of my neighbors were Amish. The best donuts in the world are made in Shipshawana! Well, to be honest, I think the Amish make the best baked goods period. If you're passing through find a Rise n Roll, you won't be disappointed. It was fun to hear you guys talk about the factories and how the RVs are put together. I was the CAD detailer at a laser and form metal shop out there and almost all the parts we made went to the RV manufactures. Boy I could tell you some stories... I'll share just one with you. This should give you an idea about the industry as a whole. Most of the parts we made at the shop I was in had to be created from scratch in our CAD system before the lasers could cut them. Some of the manufactures supplied me with part files that were already in a CAD format. Far more of them came to us over email or fax. This is where it gets stupid...And this is the honest truth. Some of these RV plants would send me hand drawn parts! Just a sketch with some rough dimensions. No tolerances. No material specifications. Not even a title block. Just the sketch and how many they wanted. Ask anyone who has dealt with engineering for one of these places will laugh about this and I bet they'll mention an idea they had at lunch and a napkin. The honest truth I'm sorry to say. I think it was very generous of you to tip toe around quality and quality control in those plants. A lot of the comments on this video are people wanting to know which one is the best and which one is the worst. Unfortunately these guys all build these things the same way. As quickly as possible. Period. You guys were absolutely right to not give an answer to this question. There is no answer to this question. Quality on RVs is in a constant state of flux. It varies from each RV that comes off the line. It varies from line to line. It varies from shift to shift. Quality control on the RV lines is not a very high priority. I loved most of the people out there. Some of the best people I've ever known I met there. The only thing I don't miss out there is the "Indiana Gray" and the 8 months of miserable cold weather. With that being said, the powers that be in the RV industry are only interested in the bottom line. That aspect of the business is reeeaaally ugly. My advice for anyone who is considering purchasing a new RV is just don't. You never know what you're going to get. It makes a lot more sense to buy something that's a year or two old and has a few miles on it. By then the most egregious faults will have manifested themselves and been fixed. There are always going to be some issues with a new RV just because of the way they are assembled. Some of them could wind up leaving you stranded or worse, and a long way from home/nearest dealer. Thanks for the video and the trip down memory lane :)
Thank you for your great comment and sharing your experiences working in the area and with the industry. Totally agree with the quality comments you made. Big part of why, after doing all the tours, we bought an older coach. Thanks again
Dealers need to take responsibility for some of the malfunctions and/or poor quality RV's that they release for sale. I'm referring to non-working appliances, non/poorly functioning outlets,valves.etc ...Most dealerships do not test ALL appliances or functions associated with the RV. Loose screws.hinges, misaligned cabinet drawers/doors, etc should all be fixed BEFORE an RV is shown for sale.
Guy, you are 100% correct in that and many people underestimate the importance of the dealer's part in having a successful RV purchase/experience. All too often we feel the manufacturer takes the blame when a dealer has not done a thorough PDI - this is supposed to be standard practice, which some dealers take more seriously than others... not coincidentally, the more diligent dealers end up with more customers happy with the RVs. But few people understand this as it's so easy to blame the manufacturer - it's a partnership all the way and the customer needs to know what to look for and expect and manage accordingly.
The ONLY way they would step up and take more care and responsibilities is if consumers stopped buying. They know that as long as they're selling, they don't have to pay attention to these crucial details, and by the time consumers realize the cut corners and such, the RV will be far far away and warranties will be expired
This is why we chose to purchase a Canadian made Leisure Travel Van. We avoid anything made in Elkhart Indiana. RV Consumer Group is a great resource for doing your research.
My 36ft Gulfstream Sunstream Hi-Rise class A was built in Napanee Indiana on a John Deere frame now owned by Freightliner. It was the 1st RV this size with only one rear axle. I met the previous owner that bought it new and was told he had to return it to the factory because he couldn't get it drive straight down the road. They had to beef up the rear suspension and add drive guides to the front wheels to fix the issue. I've never had a problem driving it. I had also taken a tour of the Alpha factory. They built the big Alpha See Ya coaches. I believe they are out of business now. I've been living in my Gulfstream for about 25 years now. I have made many upgrades and modifications to the coach over time. It's an old coach now but I still love it and have no intention of ever living in conventional housing again.
Thank you again Brian. Quite a unique RV you have. Amazing that you have lived in it for 25 years already. I imagine that it is hard to imagine living in a different space after so long. You probably know everything there is to know about that coach after all these years. We.. like you... don't have any intention of living in conventional housing again anytime soon. -M
The best quality 5th wheel manufacture I found during my research was DRV Suites. They build them like houses, 4 season, thick walls, quality insulation and plumbing. It doesn't get better.
Thanks for that video. Very informative. I think the big reason the RV business is booming now, more than past years, is there are a lot of baby boomers retiring and getting into the free life style of RVing.
Yes very true - AND you also now have the millennials buying RVs, also families and working age RVers as technology is making it possible for just about anyone to hit the road and live, work and travel in an RV. But we do believe the boomers are the biggest driver as a) they are the largest demographic b) their life stage is opening up their freedom options and many have been planning for this for some time (some for years) and c) many have the financial means to do this by selling a house and/or with 401K, social security etc... different life stage. We see many millennials doing it too, but how long they will RV for remains to be seen, as many still have life stages like family ahead of them... that can take a lot of people off the road. Glad you liked the video!
Avoid Coleman/Dutchmen/Keystone/Thor...they're all one and the same. (Made in Goshen, IN) I'll add Camping World to the list too. We bought our brand new Coleman at the end of July 2017. Leaks after 5 days and one whole side is delaminating now. We're getting the run around from Dutchmen and Camping World. No one stands behind their product which apparently is crap if you read their forums. Sorry about the rant...that's my PSA for your followers! LOL Looks like it's tough to find quality these days. Love watching you all. Great info as always. :) TY
Sorry you had a poor experience, we would be upset about that too. That said, we actually know people with RVs of those brands you mentioned who are very happy with their RVs and have not experienced the problems you have, though I'm sure others have. It is such a gray area and difficult if not impossible to say all units of every brand is bad so we tend to avoid generalizations for that reason. We like doing a lot of in depth research of our own before sharing them publicly to present a balanced and unbiased view. There ARE quality RVs out there with good service too and we actually felt many manufacturers were actually doing a decent job of trying to improve quality and customer experience. Of course, people who have a bad experience may disagree, but like most things in life, the more you pay, the more likely you are to get better quality components in the unit and service too - however all of these things (and many many more) need to be thoroughly researched before making a purchase. Even then, it's still sometimes a gamble but the risks are far reduced. Glad you enjoyed the info. Hope you get your RV issue fixed. Keep onto them and send a letter direct to the manufacturer with factual, clear, concise information and photos. Good luck!
IT all depends on which month it was made. Winter months the assembly line is run at a more relaxed pace. Summer months they run like gangbusters. Sometimes 30+ units a day. Check out the manufacture date on the Data Plate
Recreation by Design (factory direct) and Grand Design is probably the best above budget rv's for general public. Recreation by Design I have owned for 10 years with very few minor issues.
I have visited one factory out in California. It was very eye opening as to the logistical issues of manufacturing such large units. The space needed to simply move them along a manufacturing line is amazing. You two are troopers to make it through 14!!
Very interesting video, thanks much. I was particularly interested in your comments regarding quality. I think the quality groups in the RV industry would do well to adopt the automotive FMEA (Failure Modes and Effects Analysis) approach to assess and reduce risk areas. This approach uses a risk priority number (RPN) that is calculated as the product of Severity x Occurrence x Detection of potential failure modes. The Quality Control system used by the RV industry today is outdated and focuses on finding defects rather than eliminating them. Elimination of defects makes for better quality and overall reduced costs for the manufacturers. Eventually I am sure the RV industry will integrate levels of automation that will help reduce defects but from your video, it seems like they have a long way to go.
Very good insights Mark and yes we would love to see something like the FMEA approach adopted and increased quality control, certainly more consistency as well. After a multi year slump where so many RV manufacturers either went out of business or came perilously close to it, it is encouraging to now see the industry is booming, and so perhaps this increased demand, increased revenue and increased expectation from consumers will help drive some more advancements in these areas.
Keep in mind the auto industry took that lead only after Japan started to take away market share rapidly. US cars were considered junk in the late 70's through the 80's and only started to turn things around in the 90's. By that Time Japan had made their mark and the US makers never fully regained the market share. Basically the US Automakers did not do this under the kindness of their hearts...it was a necessity to stay in business! If this happened in the RV industry we would see improvement there as well...I just dont see a lot of substantial outside competition to make that happen. Unless people stop buying them change will be slow.
You're absolutely right that "Best" is a worthless term; too many variables to track, different priorities and needs. That said, I don't think it is going too far out on a limb to say that there are RV construction practices that differ between vendors, and from a standpoint of quality, can be judged. There can be objective criteria that can be compared. As a complete novice, but someone with intense interest in these types of details, I would sure like to see some of these things discussed by those with experience. As a novice, it seems to me that one such category would fall into 'where the rubber meets the road'; ie. suspension, tires, brakes. Another might be waterproofing; seams, windows and roof. Electrical systems - wire gauge, access to junctions and fuses. Plumbing; tank joints and seals - mainly infrastructure types of things.
Thank you for recognizing the complexity of it, and that there is no 'best'. You are also correct that if given adequate access, it would be great to compare specific elements like the ones you mentioned. It would be made easier if all tours were performed the same way and from the same perspectives to have that detail. Though there are many common components, there are definitely differences in construction styles that can be more objective, but would be a monumental task to do this for as many brands currently in production. Thank you again for your feedback.
Yet somehow Consumer Reports seems to put out valuable ratings and reviews and thousands of products. There are plenty of objective , fact-based info that can be passed on. Quality of materials used, QC frequency, components used, finishing processes, etc. Most seem to go out of their way to avoid naming names. The truth is an absolute defense if any mfr complains. You could offer your opinion, make it clearit is only your opinion, and that there are exceptions on both sides (some top mfrs occasionally put out a problem unit and some poor mfrs occasionally will put out a reliable unit).
WOW! 14 tours and no tour video, or photos. I'm surprised none of them wanted to brag, to you, who's the best, and why. Positive advertisement? I guess the RV manufactures assume we will settle for any rig, and figure we'll have problems with it. When you blend truck chassis, with cheap home building, and few regulations, "you get what you get, and don't throw a fit", as my granny used to say. :-) I DO agree with Catherine Green, you could share your opinion on what YOU saw was the better built rig(s).
Well, we did get some video and photo footage but only from a minority. Here is the thing about having them brag about who's the best and why - that is just words, lip service. Just because someone says it, does it mean it's true? It is sales people doing these tours... and their goal is to sell. Marketing people's goal is to market so you will buy. Seeing things with your own eyes helps you make more informed decisions. RVs are not constructed so much as assembled from hundreds of thousands of parts made by other manufacturers. So if you have a problem with fires in your Winnebago A/c - do you blame Winnebago or the A/c manufacturer? We provided the best answer we could to Catherine below so check it out. This question is far more complex than people realize... and based on the response we are getting to the video and post it is more clear than ever... it's not like comparing car brands - we wish it were that easy. It would make life much easier for all of us!
but surely you saw some things you were impressed by and some things that were appalling or concerning. That's what I think a lot of people expected to see in this video.
Build quality is most important to most people, especially if one plans to live full-time in their RV. I was hoping you two would have been able to tell us which manufacturer uses solid wood, plywood, particle board, screws, nails, staples, or glue, to assemble their interiors. Which manufacturer uses high quality electrical and plumbing systems. Which manufacturer uses solid maintenance free roofs, like one-piece fiberglass or something. Especially since Marc has construction experience. You two have already mentioned that most RV manufactures use the same products, or very similar ones, when it comes to chassis', kitchen appliances and A/C - heater units. That sort of thing. This video would make a great "introduction video" to a new "RV quality video" that answered these questions. A great "finale video" would be about which RV you two would choose based on Marc's construction and automotive experience and why. Just a thought. ;)
Thank you Bryon for your detailed feedback. We definitely saw a variety of building materials, which of course varied largely on the type of RV and intended use. Many RVs need to stay as light as possible, so fiberglass roofs are too heavy in those cases. I like your idea of follow up videos. Believe we could make dozens of detailed videos if more manufacturers would allow us to capture the footage we would need to properly explain. Thanks again.
Great info guys. I am on my second RV and what you state about no one size fits all is spot on. All information is accurate from all I have experienced and researched. Thanks!
Hello! I have to know--Marc, from a purely construction point of view, which travel trailer was the best built, in your opinion, by brand? I would be interested to know from your perspective, if you noticed any one particular brand that stood out as far as quality of workmanship, build methods, and quality control. Does it really just depend on which workers show up that day, or is training/management on the floor any different? Any winners in the bunch?
Hi Catherine, honestly, there are so many factors to consider and what day of the week can affect how one unit is produced compared to another! Management could change next week and so could their build process. So we can't possibly make such a big statement as there are more variables and factors consider than people realize. One thing we can say is there are no brands we visited that we would steer people away from - they are all doing a decent job and really seem to be focused on making improvements. That said, we did NOT visit Forest River - and that is the only one we really try to steer people away from. That said, for a family on a budget wanting an inexpensive weekender a FR may be idea for them! The more expensive, semi-custom RVs (5th wheels) like DRV and Augusta stood out more for quality but that's a very different price point and targeted more at full-time RVers and a higher end market. Airstream continues to make a quality TT, but they are very expensive - is it worth the money? That is a very personal choice based on one's priorities and values.
RVLove | Marc & Julie Bennett You steer people away from buying Forest River products because you think their quality is bad or because you didn't visit their factory?
@@Rvlove I'd like to hear more about Forest River before we order two Rockwood Roos (183 & 235s) for spring delivery at a dealer 6 miles from factory. Please tell me more.
@@Rvlove I'm not sure why you would "steer people away" from FR. They make a lot of products yes, but their Rockwood line is well built from the ground up, and I've heard many good things about them keeping great quality while other manufacturers aren't
I drive from our homebase in Ohio to Milwaukee regularly and drive by Elkhart on I 90 but haven't done any tours yet. Elhart is only 4 hrs away from our homebase. I have seen several videos of factory tours though. Like Dan & Jen Nevada, I am planning on touring the Newmar factory. The two things that has drawn me to my choice is the quality of the materials used and the process used in assembly. Not all dealership's PDI are the same so get to know a dealership's reputation.
Hi Roy, yes you will enjoy the factory tours - totally agree with your points on the quality and dealer PDIs! Also, don't just do one factory tour - we think it's important to do more than one so you have another point of reference or comparison. Also check out Entegra while you are up there - we enjoyed that tour as well and comparable to Newmar... see what they each do differently/similar. (Of course, no matter where you go, all will claim their way is 'best' - that will be up to you to get a feel for what is right for you) Cheers!
I would like to add two things. One. Is maintenance. Once I sight on the dotted line you now own another thing to maintain. I see this quite often. Customers feel that the rv is 100 percent covered by the warranty. Not true. In fact maintenance items are not. Just the same as your car. Oil changes breaks, lubricants and normal wear and tear parts are not covered by most of any warranties. If your roof leaks while u have the factory 12 year roof manufacturing warrant. It only covers a failure in the roof material. Not the sealants. No sealant is ever covers by warranty. Some dealers and manufacturers will do it and call it good will. But theirs a lot that don’t. So keep that in mind. Read the owners manual or your rv and in it is a section that tells u how often different things should be inspected or check. The second is if your not a full time rving person. I strongly recommend using the unit for the season and returning to the dealer in the fall for all your warranty repairs. I ah e always told my customers if the camper functions and theirs no safety issues then keep camping. Nothing shakes out the bugs faster then just using it. Ya I know you spent a big chunk of change on a new rv and u want it right. But let’s face it supply is low and demand is extremely high right now. So isn’t it better to keep a list of things that need fixed and just make a drop off appointment and say ied like it back by March or April. That gives them from October ish to early April ish to get all your concerns and repairs taken care of. And your helping out your service center to. There a lot of mom and pop stores out their and by bring in service for the winter give the boys and girls in service a job for the winter. See one hand washes the other. How this was helpful and informative for you or one of your followers.
Yes, we did. In fact, the thumbnail photo is of me inside a Luxe. They had a good tour and seemed to use good quality components.We were left with the impression that they build a very good quality product, and have heard from customers who have been happy with their experience as well.
@@Rvlove Yeah, I met some very satisfied customers at an RV resort. But when I saw the Luxe 5th wheel, on tour, there was some sloppy work and really poor QA -- and I felt let down. This was supposed to be their "model home" -- it should represent their best work, you know?? Some Luxe owners invited me to visit their 5th wheel and their older model was actually higher quality. They said they thought that quality control went down after the buy-out and Luxe is trying to get back on track. I don't get it though -- all they need to do is hire 1 guy to give it a good look over at the end. I spotted a LOT of super obvious stuff.
Hi Julie & Marc, great video but you left out the most valuable bit of information. We the audience understand you cannot tell us what the best RV for any of us would be (this is a common disclaimer of most generic videos). You can tell us however what next RV you would choose for yourselves given your years of experience of full time RVing. This is the most import piece of information you may share with us and would provided much needed insight.
HI Peter, that is the million dollar question isn't it? We never ever indicated this video was about the best RV to buy - yes it would be more popular but it would be impossible to give a compete and accurate answer. There are far more considerations than people realize and every one of them has a trade-off. We continue to weigh these up carefully. To cover all of these is impossible in a single video or blog post. This video was about sharing our insights to help people know what to look for when shopping and doing factory tours. As you know, this is an extremely complex decision requiring weighing up many factors. It is feeling a bit like people are wanting to know what our next RV purchase is/will be so they can make their own decisions - which does add further complexity for us - with many people are watching - and so adds more pressure than we would like - as people will read so much into it (which may not be the ideal fit for THEM). And then of course, there is the big issue of budget and not wanting to overcommit ourselves financially on what is a depreciating asset. We continue our own research, shopping process and narrowing down the field, but we aren't there yet or ready to share our choice(s) as we don't have one yet. Also be aware that we do not have an unlimited (or even high) budget! Regardless, we are putting into practice ALL of the teachings in the RV Success School courses as we 'guinea pig ourselves' (again) throughout the process and so when we do pull the trigger it will be one we are very happy with, we are sure. Sorry we can't be more specific than that, but it's as accurate an answer as we are able to give. Trust us, no-one will be happier than us to finally pick 'the one' and share it with everyone, along with why.
Wife and I spent 2 plus years deciding on what type of RV to purchase for our life style and then time to decide which manufacture to go with. We settled on the Foretravel 320 diesel pusher. You have to decide if you are planning on traveling a lot or staying in one place for 2 to 4 months. Also, towing is a decision, size of rig, what you feel comfortable in driving, etc. etc. We have owned 5th wheels, pushers, Class C's and towables. Everyone is different and spending the time and doing the research will pay off in the long run. However, nothing is perfect. The bottom line, whatever you decide, this lifestyle is great if you love to meet people and see America the Beautiful!
Joe, we couldn't have said it better ourselves ie. " Everyone is different and spending the time and doing the research will pay off in the long run." Yes, these decisions are complex and take a lot of time - it may be interesting for others to note that despite your previous experience with several different types of RVs, you and your wife still took 2 years to decide on your current coach. It really is a big decision with many considerations. All of these questions you mention (and many more) are what we guide people to focus on in narrowing down to the right RV for them - for their current life stage and circumstances! And so much of it is about attitude and expectations. Am sure your coach is absolutely beautiful - we have seen inside Foretravels and are impressed with the quality and look forward to doing their factory tour this winter. It is a fantastic lifestyle and there is no better way to see the country and meet amazing people, in our opinion.
Your video was very insightful nice job. I know the problems with rushing these units through....and all the poor workmanship that results because of it. What was the reason they gave you for not allowing you to video the process?
Hi, we have just ordered a 2018 Newmar Ventana after a year searching; I agree that Newmar offers great quality, superior performance and great standard equipment that justifies the price gap to others. Tiffin come close, but their floor plans are a bit dated. The dealer at Fort Myers are much more than just sales guys, they are very professional, their facility is impressive and the service level is outstanding.
I use to work for a company that sponsored many RV manufacturers and you made a good choice. Newmar builds a quality RV and also they don't break down as often as the others.
Had a lance 2007 815. Loved it and where we could go. After 10 years moved up to mh. Its nice, we figured out it's not our travel style. I think that's where some of the disappointment in RV comes to the forefront.
I’ve read that some production floors staple dozens together every day, while others can take months on each unit, and they’re not let out the door until QA/QC has examined everything. And just because you’re paying more that doesn’t mean you’re getting a better product. You have to do research.
Foretravel is the top notch in class A manufacturering, but you have to be wealthy to afford them. Best to buy them used. There are some great deals in used Foretravel.
They are - we just did their factory tour... but none are perfect and they can be trickier to get maintenance around the country. Very nice though, we liked them!
Sorry- I just read some of the other comments for the first time- I do think its probably unrealistic to pick just one manufacturer that has the best quality, since real consistent quality costs much more than a lot of people can spend; do you agree? Thank you for the comments you shared so a person can start down the road to ownership with some good tips to follow to help them out. My wife and I are are a few months or so out from traveling with a fifth wheel and truck, neither of which have been bought just yet. Thanks also for the positive attitude and sharing your lives on your channel! Blessings, Bob
Hi Bob, thanks for taking the time to get caught up on the comments and our lengthy explanations! LOL It's a complex topic for sure with no one simple answer... and yes totally agree - the higher quality manufacturers do cost more due to better quality components and often more labor costs, and most are not willing to pay this... and to be honest it all depends on one's needs! A person wanting to RV a few weekends a year doesn't need to spend a lot on an RV, and unless they have the means, would find one of the cheaper, lesser quality brands to be perfectly fine for their needs, use and budget. Someone who is planning to RV for extended travel, full-time or who wants to have their RV for many years, would be wise to invest in a higher quality (and more expensive) brand to meet their needs - and remember, one doesn't have to buy new either! Often buying a good quality, older RV can be a better investment than buying a new one - people perceive a new one won't come with problems, but that is not usually the case BUT you get a warranty. So one has to weigh up all of the pros and cons and priorities for their own needs - there is NO one size fits all when it comes to RVs and the RV lifestyle! Glad you found the tips helpful on your journey... there is a lot to learn for sure so we're glad this was useful. If you haven't already checked out our online courses at RVSuccessSchool.com you might want to do so - at the stage you and your wife are at, we believe you would find it to be a very useful and educational guide to help you choose the right RV setup for you. There is a lot to know and some key factors to consider along the way. We have a 20% off coupon code on all courses until 31 December 2017. Thanks for your kind words and we are glad to have you along for the journey! Safe Travels and Merry Christmas!
Thank you Marc! Sorry its taken so long to reply to your generous post; our house sold in 3 days, and we were able to buy a house half as big- the inspection is later today for that one! This will be our way to invest in a truck and fifth wheel from the equity we built up in our house these last 15 years. Hopefully, we can start some more serious research once we get moved- your online courses sound promising. Thanks again for communicating with me; I leave this Wednesday to start my legislative job in our state's capitol, and hope to get back to move in to our new home by Saturday. I am not complaining- we knew things could get tight time-wise! Anyway, we hope to start our RV journeying this coming April when my wife gets a week vacation from her job (2nd grade teacher), and hopefully the 2018 legislative session will be over by then. Then, when June arrives, we can take a longer journey to visit friends and family. Thanks again for reaching out to us- God bless, and keep up the excellent work! Bob
Would have been great to at least get your impressions of the ones who really stood out--even if not specific models and obviously taking price into consideration.
Oh thank you for your comment. ( I browsed through comments while watching the video) Then I can stop watching altogether and not wasting my time any further.
All RV manufacturers suck. Find a brand and layout that you think you like. If you are stuck on buying new, look at a few 5 year old units so you can see quality and know what to expect a few years down the road
Since you drive a Tiffin and have been to the Tiffin plant in Red Bay, I am surprised you did not mention the fact that Tiffin welcomes you to photograph and watch the build process in general or if you have ordered your new home to watch it being built. This is very unusual in this or any business and I was surprised you did not mention them in your factory tours. We are not Tiffin owners yet but we will be a very soon. The fact that Tiffin is so open shows a lot of Pride in there Product. By the way we love your videos and watch them regularly. Can't wait to go full time at the end of this year.
Hello Kevin, Yes.. Tiffin is great about allowing you to photograph, video, and even visit your coach while being built. Very uncommon indeed. Our tour of the Tiffin facility was over a year earlier than this particular video, so we just stayed focused on the most recent trip with so many tours back to back. Wishing you well with your coming purchase.
Great job, very informative. It’s was a little boring for myself, but that’s because I lived in Elkhart for 15 years. I have a good friend that’s been in the RV manufacturing for 30 years. He said he would never own one because the way their built and the quality. I find that funny. My last Rv that I bought was a fifth wheel and a lot more experience than my others. So I had him check it out before finalizing the transaction. He was pointing out more flaws and potential problems than I could see. Thank goodness his wife was with him , because when it came down to it she ask him if it was a good RV. Of course he said yes and I still own and live in it today.
My husband and I toured Thor a couple of years ago. It was really interesting for us, too! I grew up in Goshen, IN and now live just south of there, but that was the first time we have seen first hand how they are built. We have been investigating what kind of RV to get for awhile. Started out thinking class C was for us, but now we are steering toward a travel trailer. Hope to be on the road in about 6 months, when we retire.
We have a Jayco that we got new in 2013. We are now looking at a Grand Design imagine. Did go to there factory and what did you see that may help me look deeper into these campers. Great video and thank you for taking all that time in factory tours and helping us learn as we go.
Wow. That is great that you have been able to keep your current RV for over 7 years. We have friends who full time with a Grand Design Imagine and they have seemed very happy with it. Yes, we did tour Grand Design, and they were one of the better ones with quality control that we experienced. Glad you enjoyed the video. We also have.a related blog post with a lot of comments here: rvlove.com/2017/09/25/lessons-learned-14-rv-factory-tours/ Thank you -M
Very Thought-Provoking which is high-praise from us! Sorry we missed you at Cultas Lake, we're now hightailing it for the other border to start positioning ourselves for winter.
RVLove | Marc & Julie Bennett We don't quite travel that fast - lol! We are breaking camp here north of Sacramento tomorrow and heading for Santa Cruz.
Thank you for this! We just watched and are in the process of selecting our next travel trailer, and so far, we are not impressed! We do have some satisfaction with a Keystone made rv, and are looking for the next one - glad we say your video, we will certainly thy to visit some makers BEFORE we purchase the next one! Thank! Happy Camper (Montréal Canada)
Winnebago is a good choice simply because they manufacture about 80% of their own RV parts so you can get parts for old models, and they manufacture at the higher end of the middle class standard.
Winnebago has some good options for sure. We liked some of their newer coaches we saw recently and they have a wide range for many different uses and price points.
Back int the 70's everyone Winnebago was used like we use RV today. It was also considered crap because it was made similar as today's units and had random quality issues (and exploding propane compartments). They were the first to develop Thermo-Panel wall construction...and the first to deal with lawsuits for de-lamination issues. My family had a 72 D24 Winnebago Indian (rear bath) and I inherited it in the 80's and kept is up and drove it all over...finally selling it in 2003...purchaser drove it away. (Old Dodge 413 M400 Chassis). Original paint and still shined. Yeah, it had split rims... Point is, I kept up with the maintenance and treated it like a boat....always assume there is something you have to do with it to keep it going. Planes, Boats, and RV's are generally hand made with semi-custom parts and systems. They require constant attention. That old Winnie was work but we had fun with it. Actually sorry I sold it since it would have been a great restoration/classic RV project. I went back to the owner and unfortunately Hurricane Irma brought down a tree on top of it and crushed the roof and one side...then the owner fell ill. There was too much to repair so I moved on.
A lot of great information. But I was thirsty for more specifics on vendor materials manufacturer. trends on new amenities and their differences in quality. I saw a video that someone else provided saying that the vendors were very limited compared to the amount of manufacturers and they pretty much use all the same vendors. Maybe you could do a video on the best water heater or the best refrigerator or the best sink what are the best cabinet hardware
Thanks for your feedback. This is a very big topic indeed. It is true that most manufacturers bet their components from a relatively small group of vendors. But, there are still variances in the level of products they can choose from. We will consider doing the other component comparisons in the future, though in our opinion, wouldn't want to limit 'best' of anything to only what comes in RVs. When we recently remodeled our motorhome. Many of the new items we installed were originally intended for residential homes (fridge, faucets, microwave, and more). Check out our renovation series for more information. rvlove.com/2019/04/15/episode-8-the-final-reveal-ultimate-rv-makeover/
I used to work for a lot of different RV shops. I would have to say the company with the worst quality was Thor Motor Coach. I got horror stories about them. Finally had enough of their crap. I left the industry 2 years ago and couldn't be happier
Ok....if you are deciding on 3 Motorhomes- Same floor plan and about the same price- None have anything major wrong with them---What should be the deciding factor(s)?
Also look at the brand reputation, load carry capacities, insulation quality of components. For example, feel how the basement doors, and interior cabinets can vary widely in quality of materials and feel. Some are built better to hold up to extended use.
hi guys, We enjoyed the video, thanks. Lots of good insight for consumers to think about. I understand that no one can say which is the best rv to buy but my question in that direction would be... Of the rv factory tours taken, which rv builds impressed you the most and why?
You are quite right - we can not accurately say which is 'the best RV' as it is such a subjective, individual decision and there are far more factors to consider than is even possible to even list here! Buying an RV is such a complex process - one that requires a lot of planning, research and decision making around what is important to you, what fits your budget, what are the trade-offs? So it is different for everybody and we feel way too many people get hung up on 'what is the best' when the more accurate question should be 'what is the best RV for my needs and budget'? And also, of course, which TYPE of RV? Class A, B, C, gas, diesel, Travel trailer, fifth wheel? But you asked which RV build impressed us most... The majority of people probably won't want to hear that the RV builds that impressed us most were, not surprisingly, from the more high end/luxury brands (= more expensive) like Entegra, Newmar, DRV, Augusta... but then we also expect to be pretty impressed in the next few weeks when we do the Marathon tour in Oregon .. after all, their coaches sell for a cool $1.5M - $2million. So this will continue to evolve over time as we do more tours... for today, that's the best answer we can give :)
Happy to come across your page! We just left Elkhart yesterday! We toured Jayco and Heartland and want to go back to tour more! I can't believe you guys did 14 tours in a week!!!! WOW lol cheers fellow RVers!
Hi there, yes it's very interesting and informative doing the tours... many similarities yet differences as well. Yes it was an intense week and we didn't' get to do anything else, but we learned a lot... Still there are many more left to do and see. Enjoy!
It is we learned a lot just doing those 2. Def an intense week!!! lol but we are with you guys anything RV just gets us excited!!! Even our 2 & 5 year old are super into it! Safe travels!
"Made In America" used to be a good thing. No longer. I think all of the construction issues with RVs has yet to catch up to the industry. Not only are they issues of "quality", but they are also issues of "health and safety". The top bunk on my Forest River Salem FSX 179DBK collapsed on our first outing. There were only 2 screws holding it up. My 3-year old was playing in the bottom bunk just minutes before that happened. Thank god he wasn't under there at the time. Sooner or later a class-action lawsuit is going to hit a major manufacturer and that will be the end of this so-called "self-regulated industry".
Thanks for sharing. Glad to hear that nobody was hurt. We agree that the quality issues are more than just livability. There are significant health and safety concerns related to them. It is a tough situation for manufacturers as consumers so often buy on price, and are not willing to pay more for better quality, so much of the industry competes on price. Admittedly, this is part of the reason we bought such an older coach when making our recent RV purchase.
So, why aren't people like you and others who recognize safety issues not working to fix it? If that were my kids, ok or not, that was too close. Right now, july 2020 is not the time, but once we have a decent government and beyond covid 19, but i really think we need to at the very least start with life threatening safety issues. These guys budget lawsuits and forget about the real lives behind them. They might be lacking empathy...sound familiar? Not all, i am sure, but that bunk accident is just too much and someone should have been held accountable. I have seen splintered wood jabbed into a kid's skull! She lived, but 1/8 " difference could have had a completely different outcome. Please.
You guys are animals! 14 tours in a week? We were planning to hit the Newmar Factory at some point but never really thought of doing other manufacturers' tours. We'll have to check some out. It's very interesting how they are built. Great video, thanks!
Yes it was intense but we enjoyed it. Yes Newmar builds a great product but always good to visit others as well so you have a point of comparison/reference. Glad you enjoyed the video
Thank you for the good information, pictures and honest assessments. I'm looking at an older class C, because from I can see they are better built and designed. Wish I could go visit the factories, but thanks so much for taking us along!
Great information, planning a trip in June to learn more. I would like the mechanical things in your experience that are items to gear toward, regardless of the unit purchased. You hit me with this information at the right time. Your experience is valuable, share just a little bit more. Thank you,,,
Glad you enjoyed the video and plan to visit and do tours on your own. It is great for education and understanding. I like to look at the main structural frame, and wall construction on all RVs, as this varies quite a bit. There are definite differences between manufacturers especially in welding on metal framed items. Also interesting to see differences in insulation type and installation methods. When looking at plumbing I like to see that it is internal to protect against elements, but installed in a way that allows reasonable access. Look at construction materials too. For example, some will use inexpensive chip board plywood, and others will use marine grade higher quality plywood. Multiplex wiring is becoming very popular and is mostly good, but nice to have back-up switches in case of software failure. Most manufacturers use common suppliers for appliances like water heaters, air conditioners, furnace, etc, but there are different levels of quality from those third party suppliers. Of course, your planned use of your RV will decide the level of importance of construction quality. A full time traveler living in multiple climates will have higher appreciation for quality than the occasional weekend RVer. Looking at simple components like latches on cabinets (interior and exterior) can say a lot about other components used in build.
Hello you guys. Great video post. We live in Yuma, Arizona year around. We will start looking to purchase an RV by next year. How do you find out about the RV Shows, and where there having them. We can start RV shows by as early as January of next year. Love your accent! Thank you!
I understand you want to be able to monetize your knowledge you obtained from spending a lot of time, energy and money to gain that knowledge. Nothing wrong with making a return on your efforts. I do think your video would be better received if you were up front about your decision as to why you have chosen to not share publicly your thoughts on the quality of specific manufacturers. The quality of specific manufacturers is not dependent on people’s specific needs and wants which is the reason you gave for not publicly sharing that information. Just be up front and tell people that information on manufacturer quality is for sale for a price. You deserve to be remunerated for your efforts.
Hi Mark, thanks for your comment - the response to this video and blog has been interesting for sure and certainly surprising to us that is has been misconstrued by many. This is nothing to do with manufacturer quality information for sale at a price - if you want that go to www.RVreviews.net and see the guides that their team spends a year producing to answer that question but even that is also about way more than just the manufacture/build processes. Yes, we do charge for our time for a one-on-one consultation where can get specific in the answers relevant to a person's situation, as we don't take these questions lightly and give generic answers. We factor in SO MANY MORE considerations than simply what we saw at the factory. What we have come to realize is most people do not understand that RV manufacturers ASSEMBLE parts - hundreds/thousands of them - to make an RV. There are so many variables and the chassis is a large component (and contributor to the price), as are the appliances, wiring, plumbing/electrical, insulation and the list goes on. Each manufacturer claims theirs is 'the best' so who do you believe? Then there is the warranty, after sales service, dealer PDI which is one of THE most important factors of all but no-one talks about (and very few understand) this. This video was about the insights and lessons learned, what we saw and what people need to take into consideration and be aware of. At no time anywhere did we say this was about which were the best manufacturers yet for some reason people have assumed this. How can we provide a specific answer to that after a 2 hour plant tour when it would take an engineer weeks or months to answer your question...? Our offer to work on a consulting basis with people and let them know about the School was to be able to provide far more education, personalized and accurate guidance for that person, based on their needs and budget as we realize there are many people out there who would value the opportunity to be able to sit down and discuss their RV shopping, criteria, needs in detail and get an understanding of which brands/models would be worthy of their consideration - and fits their budget. Also remember there are so many types of RVs - Class A (gas/diesel), Class B, Class C, Super C, travel trailer, 5th wheel - so WHICH RV are we then referring to? Every part of an RV - build/ process/ components/ choice of chassis has their pros and cons and each has a trade-off - so what is 'best' will depend very much on what is most important to that person. This is an extremely complex question and an even more complex answer, and quite simply, is impossible to give people the answer they want in a simple video or blog post - at least not with accuracy, thought and consideration of their situation. What we have learned here is this type of information is probably less suited to our RVLove channels and perhaps better shared in our RV Success School where we can really go into a lot more detail and discussion and explain why, to a smaller, more focused audience that is actively shopping for an RV and getting the education and understanding of the bigger picture first so they can understand why this is not as simple, easy to answer as one might hope and the tools to help them navigate that process. The purpose of the video was not to tell people the info was for sale at a price, and we apologize if it came across that way. We truly felt the information we shared was informative and educational, and would help anyone in the RV research/shopping process.
The old saying goes, you get what you pay for! Does that guarantee you a quality rig with no problems? NO! Every person has to decide what is the best venue for them when it comes to a purchase. Fifth Wheel vs. Class C vs. Class B, vs gas/diesel motorhome and how much they are willing to pay for quality. Again, quality does not guarantee anyone a fool proof rig. I have also been to factories and did over 2 years research on which RV to purchase. Wife and I settled on a Foretravel Coach. These are quality and custom built and even though we wanted one, we did not opt for a new one. We bought used and loved this coach. Now, my list of what I would purchase based on my experience: Motorhomes; Foretravel, Newell, Country Coach, older Holiday Ramblers (Navigator), Tiffin. Fifth Wheels: older DRV, NuWa and Teton Class C: Winnebago and older Thor Four Winds I agree with Mark, I would not recommend Forest River. These are all subjective and my own personal opinion. Hope this helps, but Mark and Julie gave everyone some great information to assist those out there just starting out.
I think staying at a B and B makes more sense than buting an RV now days. I seen the tours and how they mass produce these campers and throw those things together. It would be best just to buy a heavy duty equipment trailer and build your own camper. As you stated, those RV places get their stuff from the same manufacturer. So just buy the windows and doors,then using good quality materials, nor particle wood flooring and cheap thin materials. The quality of materials they use is junk. The R value in insultation is NOT the same as used in a home. Unregulated means they can build cheap stuff with no problem or pressure from politics.
Yes, we have met a few folks who built their own RVs from heavy duty trailers and were able to make them exactly how they want with whichever materials they wanted. Good option for some, but most don't have the skill set or time. B and Bs are great, but don't have the versatility of RVs. Thank you for your comments
Thank you for your feedback. All claim to do some QC, but not full inspections of every system. Full inspections of most towable products are random samples. Some do one in four, others do less, others do more. Higher end products like high end Diesel coaches tend to see higher QC, but not always the case. With most manufacturers unable to keep up with production, many seem to be passing on QC to dealer network which increases the importance of having a quality dealer involved in your purchase process.
Some of the individuals who commented were not pleased that you chose to not recommend one brand or type of rv over another. However, had these individuals listened more closely, they would have heard you share many opinions about quality. I heard you say that, overall, quality control is poor and that if one wants to ensure the quality of ones rv, one had better go to the factory/plant and closely examine how that brand of rv is constructed. I also inferred that not only might quality vary from brand to brand but even within a brand, the quality of one rv might vary from that of another. Hence, it behooves an rv buyer to pay for an independent inspection of the rv, new or used, prior to putting any money down.
Thank you Laurel. Loved to hear that you caught the messages and learnings within the video that not everyone else seems to hear. You will surely be able to avoid many of the pitfalls that others who pay less attention will fall victim to. Wishing you every success and joy!
Did you or have you visited the tiffin factory? I asked because I am trying to decide between a Winnebago class A and Tiffin class A. Winnebago seems to taught that they make theirs better than Tiffin does and with so much better products and quality. You’ve seen many which is why I ask. Are the tops the same material and how about insulation? Thanks for the help.
Yes, we have visited the Tiffin factory. Many manufacturers like to state that they make the best. Winnebago has more automation, and produce more of their own parts than some of the others. But I would not say that they have a better reputation for overall quality. Haven't done side by side comparison on insulation with Winnebago and Tiffin. I believe they both use block foam. Newmar (and high end Entegra) use residential style insulation and believe that has merits in sound and temperature insulation. So much to consider in RV purchase process. Have you also looked at our courses at RV Success School? rvsuccessschool.teachable.com/ Wishing you every success and joy -M
RVLove | Marc & Julie Bennett thanks for the help. Sorry I didn’t mean to get caught up on insulation. It’s just Winnebago says they do make a lot of their stuff in house making them better than other. They also taught v-ride technology and all. That’s what I was curious about and if you noticed their factory had better quality. Thanks for the help.
Marc & Julie this was really great information. I have one big question... you have been to the Tiffin facility in Red Bay to have service work done, and so have I. I really liked that it didn't take weeks to get things done and it was done right, and you could get right in there and see what they were doing and ask questions! Is there another RV manufacturer who has a facility like Tiffin?
Hi Sam, from what we understand Rev Group (Monaco, Fleetwood, American Coach, Holiday Rambler etc) does have one in Decatur (our friend has taken his coach there many times) and they are building service centers around the country. Entegra also has a service facility in Middlebury. We also believe Heartland (fifth wheels) do too and I am sure many other manufacturers too, we just don't have a list. Our focus during this visit was the manufacturing and sadly we ran out of time to look at service facilities - could have stayed another month!
Newmar is great for service work. They even have a free campground with FHU's for coaches in for service. They come get your coach at 6 am and usually have it back to you by 2 pm. You can generally stay in the coach even if your service/warranty work takes several days. And rumor is, they are expanding the campground and service facilities. Everyone seems to rave about their service facilities and their service.
You will find that some of the top of the line RV's are not built in Indiana. You must tour the Foretravel factory in Texas and check them out. One thing I have always looked for in a build is how the electric is run, water lines, etc. This is where most of the problems occur that you actually need to bring in to a dealer or repair shop. Doors that don't fit or loose hinges, etc., those are items that the consumer needs to be able to fix. You have a home rolling down the road and things do go wrong and work their way loose. There is a reason why manufactures don't want videos of their plants!
Very true Joe! Yes, we continue to do factory tours where we can, as we make our way around the country. We plan to get to Marathon in October in Oregon and will visit Foretravel in the winter as we plan to be in Texas. We also look for how they run the water/electric is run, insulation, structure, access to common issues like slides... and yes you definitely need to be able to fix some things yourself! Good point why many don't want videos LOL
Marc and Julie - Thank you for the video and for all the replies to user comments. To echo other posters, after much research we have come to the conclusion that most RVs are built basically the same from the same materials, and quality control is pretty terrible. This has led us to consider class B RVs. You showed an image of an Airstream Interstate class B RV in your video, so you must have come across them in your tour. Correct me if I’m wrong, but my research has shown that the quality of class B RVs is generally much, much higher than most class As (except for very high end) , class Cs, travel trailers, and fifth wheels. The class Bs will never de-laminate, they seldom leak, their cabinetry is put together much better, and the fit finish and quality can’t be compared to most RVs. Hence, the very high price tag for most class Bs, even though they have much smaller living space than other RVs. Have you found this to be true as well? Thanks in advance.
Sorry for the super late reply, this only recently showed up. But yes.. we agree that Class B RVs are better quality in many ways being built on automotive chassis. -M
Thank you for your video and caveat emptor re quality. It would also be helpful if you could pinpointed the manufacturing/design differences and shortcomings (using as an example the same RV class), so that pressure is put on all of them through a better educated public in order for them to deliver a better American motorhome. In any motorhome factory I would be looking for the material the walls/roof are made of, such as Azdel (synthetic, non-wood, fiberglass, vacuum bonded) vs. the inferior wood containing components. Truss system and galvanized steel of the chassis vs. no extra support and roto cast plastic, one piece fiberglass laminated roof, hitch capacity/hot bolted, etc. Fiberglass cabinets, vs. wooden ones, so that a user will have more loading capacity and more modern European look. I need to carry maximum load in my rig instead of wood in the shape of bezeled cabinets from my grandma's house straight from the last century. The Indiana RV industry is one of the most tree wasting industries in America, when you really think about it. Perhaps after seeing 14 factories you can compile a list of factories/rigs using the best components and/or RV building practices, with the best design. There is some improvement in the last year or two regarding interior design, to be fair, but it is too slow and too little is done in my opinion. BTW, those who have the best wall material (e.g. Coachmen-Prism in class-C) do not have best cabinetry, or the strongest bunk bed and vice-versa. Each of them (Jayco Melbourne, Tiffin Wayfarer, Coachmen-Prism Elite speaking of Class-C) has a mix of good, bad and mediocre. None of them has superiority over the other, unless Azdel type material is used by only one of them. But I dont know that watching your video. And all of those class-C rigs have that shi#ty shower cabin with those horrendously looking "tiles"... Please stigmatise them and put pressure on that industry so that it can become more honest, less greedy and lazy, while educating the public in the same time. Thank you.
I didn't realize that the Jayco factory was so close - I would LOVE to tour that one. I think that it would be fascinating to see inside the factories. Thanks for the heads up on the closed toe shoes...I would have messed that up!
I saw that too. Junk is right. After seeing that, and another vlog by some unfortunate guy who had one for 2 months that was falling apart, I wouldn't even get one if the manufacturer paid me.
Hi Julie and Mark , Nice to see you ! Hope your doing well. After seeing so many RV manufacturers would you have bought a different brand & model instead of the make and model RV you presently have? Will you be coming to the west coast of Florida this winter? If so I hope we can meet up and have a meal or two together . Safe travels always ! Cheers !!
HI Bob, we are doing great, thank you. Nice to hear from you. We remain very happy with our choice of RV - make and model - which were a perfect fit for our needs, budget and circumstances at that time (and since). We would not have changed a thing as that is what worked for US at that time. However, now that our needs are changing, and knowing that we plan to be RVing for the long haul, we are starting to consider a change but it is far too soon yet to know what kind, brand, model.... we would need to go through the same process that we did back in 2013 and revisit the questions, considerations, research, prep and planning to get a clear picture of what we want and would suit our next phase AND fit our budget of course. Clarity around all of this is paramount, before being able to then move to the 'choosing the RV' phase of the journey. We know a lot more know than we did back then of course, but we still find going through the self assessment process to be the most important step, as it then makes narrowing down to the right RV easier to align it with. We will be in the south west for the winter and not FL sadly, hope you made it through the Hurricanes unscathed! One day we definitely hope to meet up! Safe travels to you too!
Great video you guys, so thorough! Top Tours? Your favorite tours? My only question if I were there....why on earth do designers have to make RVs tan, brown, and black on the inside? Why can't we have beautiful white & bright kitchens and living spaces? I can't stand their color palettes we when looked at the new RVs on the lots. Honestly, they were ugly looking to us with big brown recliners, fake stone fireplace/mantles, dark, dark cabinets, dark tables, dark walls...dark bedrooms. I didn't like any of them! Buyers have to paint all the cabinets white and brighten the walls to feel like it has more room and not so depressing. I see this over and over, people painting their RV to "brighten" it up on YT. The older models are more way cuter compared to the new models. I wish I knew you guys were going, I would have asked you to tell the management to consult Chip & Joanna Gaines on space issues and decorating styles for today's families.
RVLove | Marc & Julie Bennett So what I am getting from your video is to fix up that 50 year old 24’ Prowler I just pulled of the mountain. It is structurally sound. It is ugly (paint is weathering off). It is dated and looks dated. My wife and I are not fans of the layout at all. It needs a little work on some things, but it works for the most part. Fridge doesn’t chill when using propane. One set of windows has stripped gears on open/close mechanism, so it opened in the wind when we towed it off the mountain a couple weeks ago. The brakes seem to pretty much not work. I feel the tiniest of resistance when applying it. The cushions are lousy and need replacing. BUT, It has been under one owner essentially for almost 50 years. My grandparents bought it in 1972. They took it literally everywhere. I wonder how many thousands of miles they put on it. My parents took it over around 1990 and used it for a few years (towing it with a small SUV, a GMC S15 Jimmy, probably 5,000 lbs. GVWR) and used it a little. It sat for about ten years. Then I took it over in 2005. I fixed it up except for the aforementioned things, and put it on some mountain property in Colorado (dry and high at 8-9000 feet). So, it might be better to fix these few things myself and use the ugly thing. Sounds like if I buy new anytime soon, I will be fixing a lot anyway. Do I have that right?
You will likely have a few things to fix whether you keep an older RV, or buy a relatively new one. Depends on what you plan to do with it. If you only occasionally use it and it mostly just sits vacant on your property in Colorado, it might not be worth switching. But, if you plan on using it alot, and as you mentioned, you don't like the layout, there are probably plenty of other RVs out there that you might like better, There are definitely some things you might like better in the last nearly 50 years of RVs.
Hi Marc & Julie! Do you mind sharing your thoughts on new Thor motorhomes? We just bought the new Thor Challenger 37 TB and love it. But it seems a lot of people don’t care for Thor. Did you visit there location for a tour? If so, what are your thoughts with this Co.? Thanks for sharing this great video. I adore you both.
HI Latada, Thor makes MANY different kinds of motorhomes and RVs and we haven't seen them all... we personally know people who have had positive experiences and love their Thor and we know others who didn't and have since sold it. So who is to say? But this also goes for many other manufacturers as well. I think the main point of your comment is this: "We just bought the new Thor Challenger 37 TB and love it" - this is the most important thing. Maybe a lot of people don't care for Thor, but it's not their RV, it's yours. People get very opinionated about RVs and brands and it is literally impossible to make a blanket judgment about a brand or model unless one has had a first-hand experience with it - and even then, their experience is limited to that brand, model, year and that particular unit. Another identical unit built on the same day could turn out differently! This is what is so inconsistent about RVs and even brands as these are hand built units, assembling hundreds of parts from other manufacturers - to make an RV. So really, our opinion on Thor is irrelevant, as we haven't owned one... what matters is you love yours and are having a good experience with it... don't go looking for problems with it that may not exist. No RV is perfect and all will need repairing at some point. Just keep a good, realistic attitude about it and focus on enjoying your RV and the lifestyle and not what other people say...Thor is a large company that owns many RV brands (something like 40% of the market?) so all we really can comment to regarding the company is they seem to be aggressively growing as a company in the RV space and from what we were told at the factory tour, they are making a concerted effort to improve their customer service. But like we said, we've never owned one so can't comment personally if that is true. We met one fellow in Palm Springs who owns 2 Thor diesel motorhomes (one on each coast!!!) and loves them, thinks they have the greatest service ever while others may disagree. Remember, everyone also has a different expectation and perception and attitude, to be careful whose you pay attention to and don't go looking for problems that may not exist. Just keep on loving and using and taking good care of your motorhome!
A very sincere thanks for your response to my question on Thor MotorCoach. As I mentioned we actually had our coach built by Thor. The build took approx. 4 months. It’s the 2017 Challenger 37 TB. This is truly a beautiful coach. I really needed to hear... don’t go looking for problems, or letting others that only have negative things to say about Thor influence my thoughts. Yes it’s true, every manufacturer will have issues at some point as these are all hand built. As long as we are having a good experience with ours and Thor, just enjoy it! Thank you both for your generosity for giving us the tools and knowledge that we all need to make this experience and lifestyle so much more enjoyable. You guys are America’s most adorable couple! Wishing you both safe and happy travels. (Miles of smiles)
Latada I am looking at the Thor AXIS, however I am not buying anything yet because of the many negative reviews. What has your experience been? Have all of the systems worked or did they need repair? Thanks for your answer? -Ed from Lancaster CA
Thank you for your posting. It was very informative. a little scary, and due to your adivceI will visit any factory's near so I an understand how they are build, and hopefully know what to check when we are looking for our first RV. again Thank you!
This was posted in the second half of 2017 and yes the industry was booming and all the plants were pushing out so many units that it was the best year the market was flooded so much and not many people were buying that production went way down tons of lay off and some plants actually shut down my plant included i worked for thor motor coach and we were pushing out 500 units a week as a company a week and went down to just 150 units
Thank you for sharing your perspective. We had heard that this year's production was still going strong. Very interesting to hear otherwise from somebody who used to work in one of the plants. Sorry to hear that you were part of a shut down. Thor motorcoach has multiple plants. Curious which one you worked at. Which units?
I've lived in Indiana all my life, and it just blows me away that you would come all the way from Australia to check out Elkart! Great video, really. Yes, I would have liked to hear a couple brands recommended, but I know why you didn't. We're getting ready to buy our first trailer - we did own a Pleasureway for many years, to haul my husband's books all over the US. He's a writer. But this is for joy, for retirement, for driving down into Mexico and all over the US. We want it to be right, and Chris' face gets dark every time he hears another lemon story, to the point I think he's going to back out. Like I'll let him. But if it's a piece of junk, I"ll never hear the end of it. So, it might not help, but I'm touring them all. Right now I'm leaning to Lance, Little Guy Max, Heartland or Airstream.
Hi Alice, haha I have lived in the USA since late 2008 so didn't come all the way from Australia just to visit Elkhart! Yes, it is tough re the brands question - and it totally depends on one's budget, needs, usage etc. But the brands you are leaning too are all solid choices. Something to keep in mind is that the unhappy people will always shout about their RV's problems all over the internet and social media and that kind of message attracts more attention. Then there are the people - probably the majority - who are out living the life and having fun and not focusing on all the problems. There are NO guarantees with any RV, or brand, but the best things you can do are this: 1. Do your research, which it sounds like you are already doing, and don't rush the process 2. While owner forums are useful, try not to get too obsessed with them as they also often become a breeding ground for attracting drama (which attracts more drama) - it's important to be able to read in between the lines and keep a healthy and balanced perspective 3. Get a professional inspection if buying used - it will be worth every penny! If buying new, this is still an option! But pick a reputable dealer that does a good job with PDIs before delivery. 4. An extended service contract offers great peace of mind and can minimize repair costs and headaches. We recommend getting one and Wholesale Warranties bit.ly/wswarranty is the company we recommend - good prices and excellent service, they offer a range of policies and can help direct you to the best one for your needs 5. Take care of it with regular maintenance Essentially, do all the right things and your chances of ending up with a lemon are very low indeed... Above all, managing expectations is key - when you know what to expect (they won't be perfect but when buying used, the bugs are more likely to have been worked out by the first owner - and keep a good attitude - it's all part of the adventure! Those who focus on the negatives tend to attract them, and honestly, we've seen and heard way more positive experiences than negative ones - by doing your due diligence you're on the right track. Finally, if you aren't already of our RV Success School, you might want to check out our online courses - what I have shared here is just scratching the surface and we are happy to share that a lot of people who have experienced very positive results after taking the classes before making such a big purchasing decision and life change. The courses guide you through the process, educate you on all the important things you need to know and also help you navigate those fears of the unknown... if you want to learn more, jump over to RVSuccessSchool.com - we have a promo code until 31 December, 2017 that gives 20% off all the courses. Wishing you all the best!
Julie and Marc, once again... What should be your deciding factor if you are looking a several manufactuers and nothing are wrong with any of them....price?
There are always differences and features that you may like better on one than another. we think brand reputation is important. But if that is less important to you, you may want to focus on floor plan. There are many things you can change aftermarket, but major elements of floor plan often can't be changed without considerable expense. Price can often be modified by looking at newer or older versions of an RV (new versus pre-owned)
Thank you, great video. I will be buying a truck camper soon. They are such a small percentage of the "RV's" built I am finding that it is hard to find just what I want. Stay well and happy camping.
I have been doing a little research on quality and manufacturers. That brought me to your video. It seems there is really no independent reviews and ratings, and rankings of manufacturers. The best I can find are a couple of sites that gather and post customer reviews and satisfaction. I find that alarming! Is it that everyone finds themselves in the position you are in? Where no company truly stands out? What I have gathered so far is that Jayco has one of the best warranties, but the feedback I read is they are middle of the road on quality at best, if not worse. The best average customer satisfaction seems to be with Grand Design at almost 5 out of 5 average customer reviews. They look very nice, but are very high end. I appreciate high end quality wise and would pay for it, but I don’t really need or want the high end luxury for camping. The next best average rating I have seen consistently is Palomino that seems to average at 3.7-3.9 stars out of 5 on quite a few reviews. Every other manufacturer seems to be right at 3 stars or less. Sigh. It is much easier to research quality on cars, dishwashers, furniture, just about anything else.
RVs are definitely much more difficult to get good data on it compared to cars. The most comprehensive resource for that kind of information we are aware of is RVReviews.net
As in all things RV, that would be 'it depends'. As far as Jayco construction, I don't think I would personally buy one of their 'low end' sticks and staples units, because of personal experience with RV's constructed that way, and the fact that a vid put out by Jayco brags about the number units 32 per day they can crank out: czcams.com/video/aLHux4SuXbY/video.html Now, the higher end units, such as the 5th wheel units, construction is different, kind of a hybrid with bonded aluminum walls, but still with wood framed end caps and roof with rubber covering:: czcams.com/video/TcIzGlIjLrI/video.html
It is interesting that those working for the RV Manufacturers don't own their own RVs or have any experience with use of an RV. In somewhat (self admitted unequal comparison) I work for Boeing and don't own a wide body aircraft, or any aircraft for that matter, nor have had the opportunity to fly on any with exception of the single aisle 737.
Thanks for the great perspective. I have had similar thoughts. I remember working for a nutritional supplement company years ago, and though most who worked there were interested in nutrition and working out, there were still a number of folks who worked there that never tried any of the products. So even at that low cost of entry to try it, there were still those who didn't have experience with the product. The Boeing comparison is a fun comparison as very few would have a lot of experience with the planes. Still interesting that it seems to be a relatively low number of folks who work in the RV industry that have much experience with RVing. At least some of the manufacturers have units available for employees to borrow to give them experience. Thanks again for the comment.
On your tours did you happen to find an RV maker that puts aluminum in their floors instead of wood? I am highly allergic to mold and am looking to upgrade our TT to an aluminum / azdel unit. Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks.
Hello, We haven't seen their tour personally, but www.livinlite.com/ is a travel trailer manufacturer that I am aware of that uses aluminum for all structure. You can check out photos of their tour from their website at www.livinlite.com/brochures/2017/Livin-Lite-Plant-Tour-2017.pdf Wishing you well.
Hi guys, great video. I noticed in a few pictures that you visited The RV Factory...are they as amazing in person as they seem to be "as seen on CZcams"?
Hi there, yes we did visit the RV Factory and were impressed with what we saw. You pay for that of course! LOL But yes we consider them to be very good products.
I've been looking but have not noticed if any of the RV Manufacturer's use any conduit for the wiring or just pull the wires through the unit. All the movement that these units go through on the roads explains how wires get damaged rubbing against the frame itself and a conduit would avoid all of that. Anyone know of or have any electrical issues with shorting out??
Have seen the use of conduit in some units, but you are right that the more common practice seems to be to just pull the wires without conduit. Have heard of some issues with shorting out, but surprisingly few.
Thank you for the info. I've had two RVing friends who have had issues of rubbed wires. Anyone who has access to their undercarriage might want to consider insulating their wires from touching any metal framework. Thankns
Are you two going to upgrade your coach soon? My wife and I bought a Tiffin 32sa 6 months ago brand new and we love full timing so much we are selling it and building a new Tiffin Phaeton IH. The 32SA is just to small and doesn’t have the amenities for full-timing we really want. What are your plans?
HI there, congrats on your decision to up your ante re full-timing, am sure you will love your Phaeton. Yes 32' would be too small for us as well. We are starting to talk about what is next and whether to upgrade... at the moment it is just a conversation, but if/when we decide to make a change, we will let people know :) Lots to think/talk about.
Thanks for the reply! I hope you stick with Tiffin. We are in Spokane now and heading to Oregon. We love it when camp sites are nice and quiet. Take Care.
Great video and right on the money. They are self regulated (=unregulated) and focused only on profit. They boom taking place right now makes this the absolute worst time to buy a new unit in my opinion. Quality has always been lacking but I feel like there is even more risk of issues now.
We were camping last weekend and our neighbor was doing an overnight test run. Loose faucets, water wouldn't continue to function, and a few other minor items. I felt bad for him but he had the right idea. Luckily his dealer is 10 minutes from where we were camping.
There was a time that I was worried about buying a used trailer and having to fix stuff. Now I realize how simple these are and I know that what I do will be higher quality. Used only for me from now on. While I know there are issues I go into this informed. I do that because quite frankly I love camping. Been doing it my whole life. Won't let this stop me. If I know what I am getting into up front I can be prepared to deal with it.
Do yourself a favor and do the same. It makes owning a travel trailer more enjoyable.
You absolutely hit the nail on the head - it is very evident you are an informed buyer who understands the challenges and the points we wanted to convey here to help people open their eyes and ask better questions. It is very difficult - actually impossible in our opinion, to make such a bold statement as to which is "the best" (as so many others have asked) when quality is being compromised across the board as all manufacturers struggle to keep employees (they all move to get pay increases because there is such a shortage now, so experience keeps moving on) AND it seems to us that all are pushing units out the door as fast as they can in response to demand - with consequences for the buyer. We get to see so little in the big picture on factory tours, in terms of all the considerations related to buying... such as after-sales service, the dealer relationship (that plays a HUGE part) and even management changes and line changes - which occur with regularity. NO brand is guaranteed of being issue-free. We agree now is not a good time to buy new for the reasons you outlined and used is better... specifically from an era when quality was generally higher. We cannot and do not actually "recommend" ANY new RVs...What we do recommend is that buyers get educated, manage their expectations, and go in with eyes wide open, anticipating there WILL be issues, and there are zero guarantees... except you will end up having to fix things yourself, so just be prepared to deal with them to increase your chances of your happiness and enjoyment of the lifestyle. Too many people in our opinion put their faith and 'the power' into a particular brand hoping it will work out for them - and they are missing the whole point of our video and your comment. You are very smart in your approach and we agree 100%. Our next RV will be high quality from a respected brand and used - we can fix the inevitable issues for way less than the cost of new and also avoid much of the inevitable depreciation. Even if we were in the market and financial position to buy new right now, we would not - we'd go back a couple of years. We are also concerned about the current models being pushed out the door out as a result of the boom and resulting compromised quality. Too many corners are being cut industry-wide right now - because they can and people will buy them anyway. Buyer beware. Thanks so much for taking the time to share your educated insights!
I just watched the video and can't agree with you more in your point of view, that RV Customers need to do more to educate themselves on how these things are built. It is even more important in this RV growth period to do your homework as there are many manufacturers who are only interested in making a fast buck and are turning out junk. Add to this a shortage of skilled labor, non-existent "Lemon Law" legislation governing RVs, unscrupulous dealers and sales representatives etc. you need to do as you suggested a few "Factory Tours". Having recently completed two, with my wife in tow I can attest to how much I learned and how I now have a much better understanding and rationalization for the significant difference in price between two similar length 5th wheels. The surface treatments might be pretty, but it is what's under the floor, behind the walls and hidden from view that in my mind count's most. I am going to mention a name, only because my wife and I were that impressed with everything we were told and from what we witnessed on our tour. Because I have seen some of the junk being mass produced, read many of the the horror stories, done months of painstaking research and heard a lot of the bull-shit, I was overally impressed by Agusta - The RV Factory and their LUXE 5th wheel Brand. After meeting some of their Management staff, touring the factory, talking to production line workers, asking lots of questions and being allowed to take pictures, my faith has been restored.
There are RV Manufactures out there who care and are trying their very best to do things right and the way they should be done. The RV Factory units are NOT mass produced. They only use the highest quality materials throughout. They employ state of the art manufacturing techniques when it comes to the frame, floor, wall, roof, insulation, paint, and electrical components that you would expect in a high-end 5th wheel. But most of all they have a genuine interest in their "CUSTOMERS". From everything my wife and I witnessed, they really want to please and really want the buying experience, the delivery, and ownership experience, to be exciting and "SPECIAL". While I have one more Factory Tour to do before I make my final decision, unless New Horizons, impresses the hell out of me, I am ordering a 2019 LUXE 39' FB 5th wheel from The RV Factory.
RVLove | Marc & Julie Bennett So what I am getting from your video is to fix up that 50 year old 24’ Prowler I just pulled of the mountain. It is structurally sound. It is ugly (paint is weathering off). It is dated and looks dated. My wife and I are not fans of the layout at all. It needs a little work on some things, but it works for the most part. Fridge doesn’t chill when using propane. One set of windows has stripped gears on open/close mechanism, so it opened in the wind when we towed it off the mountain a couple weeks ago. The brakes seem to pretty much not work. I feel the tiniest of resistance when applying it. The cushions are lousy and need replacing.
BUT, It has been under one owner essentially for almost 50 years. My grandparents bought it in 1972. They took it literally everywhere. I wonder how many thousands of miles they put on it. My parents took it over around 1990 and used it for a few years (towing it with a small SUV, a GMC S15 Jimmy, probably 5,000 lbs. GVWR) and used it a little. It sat for about ten years. Then I took it over in 2005. I fixed it up except for the aforementioned things, and put it on some mountain property in Colorado (dry and high at 8-9000 feet).
So, it might be better to fix these few things myself and use the ugly thing. Sounds like if I buy new anytime soon, I will be fixing a lot anyway. Do I have that right?
with Covid - even more campers are being bought... my guess is many will learn "the hard way" that the RV life is NOT for them and there may be some deals to be had in a year...
Michael, good chance you are right. The other thing that I think of is just how bad is the quality going to be on the units being built now??!! Are they rushing even more to catch up from the shut down? Ugh.
Out of all of the tours you completed, which manufacturer were you overall impressed by the most?
One thing to add....Every RV dealerships #1 goal is----selling another RV. Make sure you go over your used or new RV with a fine tooth comb and do not sign on the dotted line until every single item on "the checklist" is completed. The sales manager will be on the service manager to get YOUR RV repaired first before any of the others because they need to get your RV off of their floor planning cost and get paid for that unit. Once you sign the paper and the money transfers, you will no longer be holding that over their heads and your RV can sit for 2 months waiting for parts for all they care. To make that sale, they will make things happen.
Good advice, thanks for sharing Jeff!
I miss Elkhart county :( I lived in Nappanee for almost 5 years. All of my neighbors were Amish. The best donuts in the world are made in Shipshawana! Well, to be honest, I think the Amish make the best baked goods period. If you're passing through find a Rise n Roll, you won't be disappointed.
It was fun to hear you guys talk about the factories and how the RVs are put together. I was the CAD detailer at a laser and form metal shop out there and almost all the parts we made went to the RV manufactures. Boy I could tell you some stories...
I'll share just one with you. This should give you an idea about the industry as a whole. Most of the parts we made at the shop I was in had to be created from scratch in our CAD system before the lasers could cut them. Some of the manufactures supplied me with part files that were already in a CAD format. Far more of them came to us over email or fax. This is where it gets stupid...And this is the honest truth. Some of these RV plants would send me hand drawn parts! Just a sketch with some rough dimensions. No tolerances. No material specifications. Not even a title block. Just the sketch and how many they wanted. Ask anyone who has dealt with engineering for one of these places will laugh about this and I bet they'll mention an idea they had at lunch and a napkin. The honest truth I'm sorry to say.
I think it was very generous of you to tip toe around quality and quality control in those plants. A lot of the comments on this video are people wanting to know which one is the best and which one is the worst. Unfortunately these guys all build these things the same way. As quickly as possible. Period. You guys were absolutely right to not give an answer to this question. There is no answer to this question. Quality on RVs is in a constant state of flux. It varies from each RV that comes off the line. It varies from line to line. It varies from shift to shift. Quality control on the RV lines is not a very high priority.
I loved most of the people out there. Some of the best people I've ever known I met there. The only thing I don't miss out there is the "Indiana Gray" and the 8 months of miserable cold weather. With that being said, the powers that be in the RV industry are only interested in the bottom line. That aspect of the business is reeeaaally ugly.
My advice for anyone who is considering purchasing a new RV is just don't. You never know what you're going to get. It makes a lot more sense to buy something that's a year or two old and has a few miles on it. By then the most egregious faults will have manifested themselves and been fixed. There are always going to be some issues with a new RV just because of the way they are assembled. Some of them could wind up leaving you stranded or worse, and a long way from home/nearest dealer.
Thanks for the video and the trip down memory lane :)
Thank you for your great comment and sharing your experiences working in the area and with the industry. Totally agree with the quality comments you made. Big part of why, after doing all the tours, we bought an older coach. Thanks again
I love how the two of you work together to present such a well-thought-out and well-delivered video. Thanks.
Thank you for your kind words about our video. We appreciate it.
Dealers need to take responsibility for some of the malfunctions and/or poor quality RV's that they release for sale. I'm referring to non-working appliances, non/poorly functioning outlets,valves.etc ...Most dealerships do not test ALL appliances or functions associated with the RV. Loose screws.hinges, misaligned cabinet drawers/doors, etc should all be fixed BEFORE an RV is shown for sale.
To bad a PDI takes place after the cash and paperwork is signed. A Dealer would be more attentive if they were not paid yet.
Guy, you are 100% correct in that and many people underestimate the importance of the dealer's part in having a successful RV purchase/experience. All too often we feel the manufacturer takes the blame when a dealer has not done a thorough PDI - this is supposed to be standard practice, which some dealers take more seriously than others... not coincidentally, the more diligent dealers end up with more customers happy with the RVs. But few people understand this as it's so easy to blame the manufacturer - it's a partnership all the way and the customer needs to know what to look for and expect and manage accordingly.
Very true.
The ONLY way they would step up and take more care and responsibilities is if consumers stopped buying. They know that as long as they're selling, they don't have to pay attention to these crucial details, and by the time consumers realize the cut corners and such, the RV will be far far away and warranties will be expired
This is why we chose to purchase a Canadian made Leisure Travel Van. We avoid anything made in Elkhart Indiana. RV Consumer Group is a great resource for doing your research.
We really like the LTVs too.
My 36ft Gulfstream Sunstream Hi-Rise class A was built in Napanee Indiana on a John Deere frame now owned by Freightliner. It was the 1st RV this size with only one rear axle. I met the previous owner that bought it new and was told he had to return it to the factory because he couldn't get it drive straight down the road. They had to beef up the rear suspension and add drive guides to the front wheels to fix the issue. I've never had a problem driving it. I had also taken a tour of the Alpha factory. They built the big Alpha See Ya coaches. I believe they are out of business now.
I've been living in my Gulfstream for about 25 years now. I have made many upgrades and modifications to the coach over time. It's an old coach now but I still love it and have no intention of ever living in conventional housing again.
Thank you again Brian. Quite a unique RV you have. Amazing that you have lived in it for 25 years already. I imagine that it is hard to imagine living in a different space after so long. You probably know everything there is to know about that coach after all these years. We.. like you... don't have any intention of living in conventional housing again anytime soon. -M
The best quality 5th wheel manufacture I found during my research was DRV Suites. They build them like houses, 4 season, thick walls, quality insulation and plumbing. It doesn't get better.
They are one of the better quality ones for sure, also Augusta
Thanks for that video. Very informative. I think the big reason the RV business is booming now, more than past years, is there are a lot of baby boomers retiring and getting into the free life style of RVing.
Yes very true - AND you also now have the millennials buying RVs, also families and working age RVers as technology is making it possible for just about anyone to hit the road and live, work and travel in an RV. But we do believe the boomers are the biggest driver as a) they are the largest demographic b) their life stage is opening up their freedom options and many have been planning for this for some time (some for years) and c) many have the financial means to do this by selling a house and/or with 401K, social security etc... different life stage. We see many millennials doing it too, but how long they will RV for remains to be seen, as many still have life stages like family ahead of them... that can take a lot of people off the road. Glad you liked the video!
Avoid Coleman/Dutchmen/Keystone/Thor...they're all one and the same. (Made in Goshen, IN) I'll add Camping World to the list too. We bought our brand new Coleman at the end of July 2017. Leaks after 5 days and one whole side is delaminating now. We're getting the run around from Dutchmen and Camping World. No one stands behind their product which apparently is crap if you read their forums. Sorry about the rant...that's my PSA for your followers! LOL Looks like it's tough to find quality these days. Love watching you all. Great info as always. :) TY
Sorry you had a poor experience, we would be upset about that too. That said, we actually know people with RVs of those brands you mentioned who are very happy with their RVs and have not experienced the problems you have, though I'm sure others have. It is such a gray area and difficult if not impossible to say all units of every brand is bad so we tend to avoid generalizations for that reason. We like doing a lot of in depth research of our own before sharing them publicly to present a balanced and unbiased view. There ARE quality RVs out there with good service too and we actually felt many manufacturers were actually doing a decent job of trying to improve quality and customer experience. Of course, people who have a bad experience may disagree, but like most things in life, the more you pay, the more likely you are to get better quality components in the unit and service too - however all of these things (and many many more) need to be thoroughly researched before making a purchase. Even then, it's still sometimes a gamble but the risks are far reduced. Glad you enjoyed the info. Hope you get your RV issue fixed. Keep onto them and send a letter direct to the manufacturer with factual, clear, concise information and photos. Good luck!
Darn! I was looking at a Dutchmen .
IT all depends on which month it was made. Winter months the assembly line is run at a more relaxed pace. Summer months they run like gangbusters. Sometimes 30+ units a day. Check out the manufacture date on the Data Plate
Recreation by Design (factory direct) and
Grand Design is probably the best above budget rv's for general public. Recreation by Design I have owned for 10 years with very few minor issues.
I have visited one factory out in California. It was very eye opening as to the logistical issues of manufacturing such large units. The space needed to simply move them along a manufacturing line is amazing. You two are troopers to make it through 14!!
Thanks, Mark could have easily done more but I was starting to fade! LOL
Very interesting video, thanks much. I was particularly interested in your comments regarding quality. I think the quality groups in the RV industry would do well to adopt the automotive FMEA (Failure Modes and Effects Analysis) approach to assess and reduce risk areas. This approach uses a risk priority number (RPN) that is calculated as the product of Severity x Occurrence x Detection of potential failure modes. The Quality Control system used by the RV industry today is outdated and focuses on finding defects rather than eliminating them. Elimination of defects makes for better quality and overall reduced costs for the manufacturers. Eventually I am sure the RV industry will integrate levels of automation that will help reduce defects but from your video, it seems like they have a long way to go.
Very good insights Mark and yes we would love to see something like the FMEA approach adopted and increased quality control, certainly more consistency as well. After a multi year slump where so many RV manufacturers either went out of business or came perilously close to it, it is encouraging to now see the industry is booming, and so perhaps this increased demand, increased revenue and increased expectation from consumers will help drive some more advancements in these areas.
Keep in mind the auto industry took that lead only after Japan started to take away market share rapidly. US cars were considered junk in the late 70's through the 80's and only started to turn things around in the 90's. By that Time Japan had made their mark and the US makers never fully regained the market share. Basically the US Automakers did not do this under the kindness of their hearts...it was a necessity to stay in business!
If this happened in the RV industry we would see improvement there as well...I just dont see a lot of substantial outside competition to make that happen. Unless people stop buying them change will be slow.
You're absolutely right that "Best" is a worthless term; too many variables to track, different priorities and needs. That said, I don't think it is going too far out on a limb to say that there are RV construction practices that differ between vendors, and from a standpoint of quality, can be judged. There can be objective criteria that can be compared. As a complete novice, but someone with intense interest in these types of details, I would sure like to see some of these things discussed by those with experience. As a novice, it seems to me that one such category would fall into 'where the rubber meets the road'; ie. suspension, tires, brakes. Another might be waterproofing; seams, windows and roof. Electrical systems - wire gauge, access to junctions and fuses. Plumbing; tank joints and seals - mainly infrastructure types of things.
Thank you for recognizing the complexity of it, and that there is no 'best'. You are also correct that if given adequate access, it would be great to compare specific elements like the ones you mentioned. It would be made easier if all tours were performed the same way and from the same perspectives to have that detail. Though there are many common components, there are definitely differences in construction styles that can be more objective, but would be a monumental task to do this for as many brands currently in production. Thank you again for your feedback.
Yet somehow Consumer Reports seems to put out valuable ratings and reviews and thousands of products. There are plenty of objective , fact-based info that can be passed on. Quality of materials used, QC frequency, components used, finishing processes, etc. Most seem to go out of their way to avoid naming names. The truth is an absolute defense if any mfr complains. You could offer your opinion, make it clearit is only your opinion, and that there are exceptions on both sides (some top mfrs occasionally put out a problem unit and some poor mfrs occasionally will put out a reliable unit).
WOW! 14 tours and no tour video, or photos. I'm surprised none of them wanted to brag, to you, who's the best, and why. Positive advertisement? I guess the RV manufactures assume we will settle for any rig, and figure we'll have problems with it. When you blend truck chassis, with cheap home building, and few regulations, "you get what you get, and don't throw a fit", as my granny used to say. :-) I DO agree with Catherine Green, you could share your opinion on what YOU saw was the better built rig(s).
Well, we did get some video and photo footage but only from a minority. Here is the thing about having them brag about who's the best and why - that is just words, lip service. Just because someone says it, does it mean it's true? It is sales people doing these tours... and their goal is to sell. Marketing people's goal is to market so you will buy. Seeing things with your own eyes helps you make more informed decisions. RVs are not constructed so much as assembled from hundreds of thousands of parts made by other manufacturers. So if you have a problem with fires in your Winnebago A/c - do you blame Winnebago or the A/c manufacturer? We provided the best answer we could to Catherine below so check it out. This question is far more complex than people realize... and based on the response we are getting to the video and post it is more clear than ever... it's not like comparing car brands - we wish it were that easy. It would make life much easier for all of us!
but surely you saw some things you were impressed by and some things that were appalling or concerning. That's what I think a lot of people expected to see in this video.
Build quality is most important to most people, especially if one plans to live full-time in their RV. I was hoping you two would have been able to tell us which manufacturer uses solid wood, plywood, particle board, screws, nails, staples, or glue, to assemble their interiors. Which manufacturer uses high quality electrical and plumbing systems. Which manufacturer uses solid maintenance free roofs, like one-piece fiberglass or something. Especially since Marc has construction experience. You two have already mentioned that most RV manufactures use the same products, or very similar ones, when it comes to chassis', kitchen appliances and A/C - heater units. That sort of thing. This video would make a great "introduction video" to a new "RV quality video" that answered these questions. A great "finale video" would be about which RV you two would choose based on Marc's construction and automotive experience and why. Just a thought. ;)
Thank you Bryon for your detailed feedback. We definitely saw a variety of building materials, which of course varied largely on the type of RV and intended use. Many RVs need to stay as light as possible, so fiberglass roofs are too heavy in those cases. I like your idea of follow up videos. Believe we could make dozens of detailed videos if more manufacturers would allow us to capture the footage we would need to properly explain. Thanks again.
Great info guys. I am on my second RV and what you state about no one size fits all is spot on. All information is accurate from all I have experienced and researched. Thanks!
Thank you for your great feedback.
Hello! I have to know--Marc, from a purely construction point of view, which travel trailer was the best built, in your opinion, by brand? I would be interested to know from your perspective, if you noticed any one particular brand that stood out as far as quality of workmanship, build methods, and quality control. Does it really just depend on which workers show up that day, or is training/management on the floor any different? Any winners in the bunch?
Hi Catherine, honestly, there are so many factors to consider and what day of the week can affect how one unit is produced compared to another! Management could change next week and so could their build process. So we can't possibly make such a big statement as there are more variables and factors consider than people realize. One thing we can say is there are no brands we visited that we would steer people away from - they are all doing a decent job and really seem to be focused on making improvements. That said, we did NOT visit Forest River - and that is the only one we really try to steer people away from. That said, for a family on a budget wanting an inexpensive weekender a FR may be idea for them! The more expensive, semi-custom RVs (5th wheels) like DRV and Augusta stood out more for quality but that's a very different price point and targeted more at full-time RVers and a higher end market. Airstream continues to make a quality TT, but they are very expensive - is it worth the money? That is a very personal choice based on one's priorities and values.
RVLove | Marc & Julie Bennett
You steer people away from buying Forest River products because you think their quality is bad or because you didn't visit their factory?
@@Rvlove I'd like to hear more about Forest River before we order two Rockwood Roos (183 & 235s) for spring delivery at a dealer 6 miles from factory. Please tell me more.
@@Rvlove I'm not sure why you would "steer people away" from FR. They make a lot of products yes, but their Rockwood line is well built from the ground up, and I've heard many good things about them keeping great quality while other manufacturers aren't
I drive from our homebase in Ohio to Milwaukee regularly and drive by Elkhart on I 90 but haven't done any tours yet. Elhart is only 4 hrs away from our homebase. I have seen several videos of factory tours though. Like Dan & Jen Nevada, I am planning on touring the Newmar factory. The two things that has drawn me to my choice is the quality of the materials used and the process used in assembly. Not all dealership's PDI are the same so get to know a dealership's reputation.
Hi Roy, yes you will enjoy the factory tours - totally agree with your points on the quality and dealer PDIs! Also, don't just do one factory tour - we think it's important to do more than one so you have another point of reference or comparison. Also check out Entegra while you are up there - we enjoyed that tour as well and comparable to Newmar... see what they each do differently/similar. (Of course, no matter where you go, all will claim their way is 'best' - that will be up to you to get a feel for what is right for you) Cheers!
I would like to add two things. One. Is maintenance. Once I sight on the dotted line you now own another thing to maintain. I see this quite often. Customers feel that the rv is 100 percent covered by the warranty. Not true. In fact maintenance items are not. Just the same as your car. Oil changes breaks, lubricants and normal wear and tear parts are not covered by most of any warranties. If your roof leaks while u have the factory 12 year roof manufacturing warrant. It only covers a failure in the roof material. Not the sealants. No sealant is ever covers by warranty. Some dealers and manufacturers will do it and call it good will. But theirs a lot that don’t. So keep that in mind. Read the owners manual or your rv and in it is a section that tells u how often different things should be inspected or check. The second is if your not a full time rving person. I strongly recommend using the unit for the season and returning to the dealer in the fall for all your warranty repairs. I ah e always told my customers if the camper functions and theirs no safety issues then keep camping. Nothing shakes out the bugs faster then just using it. Ya I know you spent a big chunk of change on a new rv and u want it right. But let’s face it supply is low and demand is extremely high right now. So isn’t it better to keep a list of things that need fixed and just make a drop off appointment and say ied like it back by March or April. That gives them from October ish to early April ish to get all your concerns and repairs taken care of. And your helping out your service center to. There a lot of mom and pop stores out their and by bring in service for the winter give the boys and girls in service a job for the winter. See one hand washes the other. How this was helpful and informative for you or one of your followers.
Thanks for your additions. I am sure that many will find them helpful and informative.
Thanks for checking out our manufacturing facilities
Thank you! I had a hunch about how RVs are not made the way they are supposed to be; this is a good and honest video - thank you!
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed the video and appreciate your comment. -M
Which company had the best manufacturing process using more modern technology
YES! good question.
Me to.
Did you visit Luxe / Augusta / The RV Factory (all the same manufacturer)? What were your impressions?
Yes, we did. In fact, the thumbnail photo is of me inside a Luxe. They had a good tour and seemed to use good quality components.We were left with the impression that they build a very good quality product, and have heard from customers who have been happy with their experience as well.
@@Rvlove Yeah, I met some very satisfied customers at an RV resort. But when I saw the Luxe 5th wheel, on tour, there was some sloppy work and really poor QA -- and I felt let down. This was supposed to be their "model home" -- it should represent their best work, you know?? Some Luxe owners invited me to visit their 5th wheel and their older model was actually higher quality. They said they thought that quality control went down after the buy-out and Luxe is trying to get back on track. I don't get it though -- all they need to do is hire 1 guy to give it a good look over at the end. I spotted a LOT of super obvious stuff.
Hi Julie & Marc, great video but you left out the most valuable bit of information. We the audience understand you cannot tell us what the best RV for any of us would be (this is a common disclaimer of most generic videos). You can tell us however what next RV you would choose for yourselves given your years of experience of full time RVing. This is the most import piece of information you may share with us and would provided much needed insight.
HI Peter, that is the million dollar question isn't it? We never ever indicated this video was about the best RV to buy - yes it would be more popular but it would be impossible to give a compete and accurate answer. There are far more considerations than people realize and every one of them has a trade-off. We continue to weigh these up carefully. To cover all of these is impossible in a single video or blog post. This video was about sharing our insights to help people know what to look for when shopping and doing factory tours. As you know, this is an extremely complex decision requiring weighing up many factors. It is feeling a bit like people are wanting to know what our next RV purchase is/will be so they can make their own decisions - which does add further complexity for us - with many people are watching - and so adds more pressure than we would like - as people will read so much into it (which may not be the ideal fit for THEM). And then of course, there is the big issue of budget and not wanting to overcommit ourselves financially on what is a depreciating asset. We continue our own research, shopping process and narrowing down the field, but we aren't there yet or ready to share our choice(s) as we don't have one yet. Also be aware that we do not have an unlimited (or even high) budget! Regardless, we are putting into practice ALL of the teachings in the RV Success School courses as we 'guinea pig ourselves' (again) throughout the process and so when we do pull the trigger it will be one we are very happy with, we are sure. Sorry we can't be more specific than that, but it's as accurate an answer as we are able to give. Trust us, no-one will be happier than us to finally pick 'the one' and share it with everyone, along with why.
Wife and I spent 2 plus years deciding on what type of RV to purchase for our life style and then time to decide which manufacture to go with. We settled on the Foretravel 320 diesel pusher. You have to decide if you are planning on traveling a lot or staying in one place for 2 to 4 months. Also, towing is a decision, size of rig, what you feel comfortable in driving, etc. etc. We have owned 5th wheels, pushers, Class C's and towables. Everyone is different and spending the time and doing the research will pay off in the long run. However, nothing is perfect. The bottom line, whatever you decide, this lifestyle is great if you love to meet people and see America the Beautiful!
Joe, we couldn't have said it better ourselves ie. " Everyone is different and spending the time and doing the research will pay off in the long run." Yes, these decisions are complex and take a lot of time - it may be interesting for others to note that despite your previous experience with several different types of RVs, you and your wife still took 2 years to decide on your current coach. It really is a big decision with many considerations. All of these questions you mention (and many more) are what we guide people to focus on in narrowing down to the right RV for them - for their current life stage and circumstances! And so much of it is about attitude and expectations. Am sure your coach is absolutely beautiful - we have seen inside Foretravels and are impressed with the quality and look forward to doing their factory tour this winter. It is a fantastic lifestyle and there is no better way to see the country and meet amazing people, in our opinion.
Your video was very insightful nice job. I know the problems with rushing these units through....and all the poor workmanship that results because of it. What was the reason they gave you for not allowing you to video the process?
Joe, does diesel vs. gas have anything to do with how often you move campsites? Just curious.
Thank you for your hard work in researching RV's.
Thanks Lisa
Thanks guys wonderful stuff.🙏🏻🇦🇺❤️
Thanks Craig
excellent. Thank You!
Thank you
We did 6 and that was enough for us to see the good, bad and the ugly. You guys are crazy! Newmar was by far our favorite!
Yes it gets a bit intense after a while! Newmar is a great brand for sure. We wanted to cover as many brands and types of RVs as we could!
You are right, Newmar builds quality RV's.
Hi, we have just ordered a 2018 Newmar Ventana after a year searching; I agree that Newmar offers great quality, superior performance and great standard equipment that justifies the price gap to others. Tiffin come close, but their floor plans are a bit dated. The dealer at Fort Myers are much more than just sales guys, they are very professional, their facility is impressive and the service level is outstanding.
I use to work for a company that sponsored many RV manufacturers and you made a good choice. Newmar builds a quality RV and also they don't break down as often as the others.
Newmar is a class all by their selves
Great advice. It is amazing how many Rv businesses are in the Elkhart area.
So many!
Don't forget the Lance tour. I'm impressed with their units and company story. In the coming months I may take their tour and purchase a unit.
Rodney Simpson I like them but too heavy and prefer Northern Lite fiberglass clamshell design. Lower center of gravity on NL's also.
Had a lance 2007 815. Loved it and where we could go. After 10 years moved up to mh. Its nice, we figured out it's not our travel style. I think that's where some of the disappointment in RV comes to the forefront.
Yes we are gradually making our way to as many as we can as our travel permits!
Brian Dunne. Yes. I've noticed this past weekend.
Newmar products are very well made, as are Bigfoot, Arctic Fox, and I believe Nash as well.
Agreed. Those are generally good choices.
I’ve read that some production floors staple dozens together every day, while others can take months on each unit, and they’re not let out the door until QA/QC has examined everything. And just because you’re paying more that doesn’t mean you’re getting a better product. You have to do research.
Yes. All true.
Richard P , I believe Pleasure Way does this, and they make videos showing the process. I believe Roadtrek is great, too.
Foretravel is the top notch in class A manufacturering, but you have to be wealthy to afford them. Best to buy them used. There are some great deals in used Foretravel.
They are - we just did their factory tour... but none are perfect and they can be trickier to get maintenance around the country. Very nice though, we liked them!
Sorry- I just read some of the other comments for the first time- I do think its probably unrealistic to pick just one manufacturer that has the best quality, since real consistent quality costs much more than a lot of people can spend; do you agree? Thank you for the comments you shared so a person can start down the road to ownership with some good tips to follow to help them out. My wife and I are are a few months or so out from traveling with a fifth wheel and truck, neither of which have been bought just yet. Thanks also for the positive attitude and sharing your lives on your channel!
Blessings,
Bob
Hi Bob, thanks for taking the time to get caught up on the comments and our lengthy explanations! LOL It's a complex topic for sure with no one simple answer... and yes totally agree - the higher quality manufacturers do cost more due to better quality components and often more labor costs, and most are not willing to pay this... and to be honest it all depends on one's needs! A person wanting to RV a few weekends a year doesn't need to spend a lot on an RV, and unless they have the means, would find one of the cheaper, lesser quality brands to be perfectly fine for their needs, use and budget. Someone who is planning to RV for extended travel, full-time or who wants to have their RV for many years, would be wise to invest in a higher quality (and more expensive) brand to meet their needs - and remember, one doesn't have to buy new either! Often buying a good quality, older RV can be a better investment than buying a new one - people perceive a new one won't come with problems, but that is not usually the case BUT you get a warranty. So one has to weigh up all of the pros and cons and priorities for their own needs - there is NO one size fits all when it comes to RVs and the RV lifestyle! Glad you found the tips helpful on your journey... there is a lot to learn for sure so we're glad this was useful. If you haven't already checked out our online courses at RVSuccessSchool.com you might want to do so - at the stage you and your wife are at, we believe you would find it to be a very useful and educational guide to help you choose the right RV setup for you. There is a lot to know and some key factors to consider along the way. We have a 20% off coupon code on all courses until 31 December 2017. Thanks for your kind words and we are glad to have you along for the journey! Safe Travels and Merry Christmas!
Thank you Marc! Sorry its taken so long to reply to your generous post; our house sold in 3 days, and we were able to buy a house half as big- the inspection is later today for that one! This will be our way to invest in a truck and fifth wheel from the equity we built up in our house these last 15 years. Hopefully, we can start some more serious research once we get moved- your online courses sound promising. Thanks again for communicating with me; I leave this Wednesday to start my legislative job in our state's capitol, and hope to get back to move in to our new home by Saturday. I am not complaining- we knew things could get tight time-wise! Anyway, we hope to start our RV journeying this coming April when my wife gets a week vacation from her job (2nd grade teacher), and hopefully the 2018 legislative session will be over by then. Then, when June arrives, we can take a longer journey to visit friends and family. Thanks again for reaching out to us- God bless, and keep up the excellent work! Bob
16 minute video and you can't tell us which factories made the best impression. What a waste of time.
Exactly
Would have been great to at least get your impressions of the ones who really stood out--even if not specific models and obviously taking price into consideration.
Oh thank you for your comment.
( I browsed through comments while watching the video)
Then I can stop watching altogether and not wasting my time any further.
All RV manufacturers suck. Find a brand and layout that you think you like. If you are stuck on buying new, look at a few 5 year old units so you can see quality and know what to expect a few years down the road
Since you drive a Tiffin and have been to the Tiffin plant in Red Bay, I am surprised you did not mention the fact that Tiffin welcomes you to photograph and watch the build process in general or if you have ordered your new home to watch it being built. This is very unusual in this or any business and I was surprised you did not mention them in your factory tours. We are not Tiffin owners yet but we will be a very soon. The fact that Tiffin is so open shows a lot of Pride in there Product. By the way we love your videos and watch them regularly. Can't wait to go full time at the end of this year.
Hello Kevin, Yes.. Tiffin is great about allowing you to photograph, video, and even visit your coach while being built. Very uncommon indeed. Our tour of the Tiffin facility was over a year earlier than this particular video, so we just stayed focused on the most recent trip with so many tours back to back. Wishing you well with your coming purchase.
Great job, very informative. It’s was a little boring for myself, but that’s because I lived in Elkhart for 15 years. I have a good friend that’s been in the RV manufacturing for 30 years. He said he would never own one because the way their built and the quality. I find that funny. My last Rv that I bought was a fifth wheel and a lot more experience than my others. So I had him check it out before finalizing the transaction. He was pointing out more flaws and potential problems than I could see. Thank goodness his wife was with him , because when it came down to it she ask him if it was a good RV. Of course he said yes and I still own and live in it today.
Thank You. There Not Many Who Speak The Truth. Thanks for Knowledge !!
Thank you
Best infor is ppl who own one.
Yes, talking to people who own RVs is very useful information, but doing tours is excellent learning too.
My husband and I toured Thor a couple of years ago. It was really interesting for us, too! I grew up in Goshen, IN and now live just south of there, but that was the first time we have seen first hand how they are built. We have been investigating what kind of RV to get for awhile. Started out thinking class C was for us, but now we are steering toward a travel trailer. Hope to be on the road in about 6 months, when we retire.
Great insight look into RV industry...great jobs! Keep it coming too!
Thank you
We have a Jayco that we got new in 2013. We are now looking at a Grand Design imagine. Did go to there factory and what did you see that may help me look deeper into these campers. Great video and thank you for taking all that time in factory tours and helping us learn as we go.
Wow. That is great that you have been able to keep your current RV for over 7 years. We have friends who full time with a Grand Design Imagine and they have seemed very happy with it. Yes, we did tour Grand Design, and they were one of the better ones with quality control that we experienced. Glad you enjoyed the video. We also have.a related blog post with a lot of comments here:
rvlove.com/2017/09/25/lessons-learned-14-rv-factory-tours/
Thank you -M
Very Thought-Provoking which is high-praise from us! Sorry we missed you at Cultas Lake, we're now hightailing it for the other border to start positioning ourselves for winter.
Hope you guys made it safely and are now warm! We are here in rainy Seattle! Great to meet you!
RVLove | Marc & Julie Bennett We don't quite travel that fast - lol! We are breaking camp here north of Sacramento tomorrow and heading for Santa Cruz.
Haha ok good to know, there is no rush! Enjoy and be safe.
Thank you for this! We just watched and are in the process of selecting our next travel trailer, and so far, we are not impressed! We do have some satisfaction with a Keystone made rv, and are looking for the next one - glad we say your video, we will certainly thy to visit some makers BEFORE we purchase the next one! Thank! Happy Camper (Montréal Canada)
Thank you for your feedback. Glad you found our video helpful. Wishing you a very successful shopping experience.
Winnebago is a good choice simply because they manufacture about 80% of their own RV parts so you can get parts for old models, and they manufacture at the higher end of the middle class standard.
Winnebago has some good options for sure. We liked some of their newer coaches we saw recently and they have a wide range for many different uses and price points.
Back int the 70's everyone Winnebago was used like we use RV today. It was also considered crap because it was made similar as today's units and had random quality issues (and exploding propane compartments). They were the first to develop Thermo-Panel wall construction...and the first to deal with lawsuits for de-lamination issues. My family had a 72 D24 Winnebago Indian (rear bath) and I inherited it in the 80's and kept is up and drove it all over...finally selling it in 2003...purchaser drove it away. (Old Dodge 413 M400 Chassis). Original paint and still shined. Yeah, it had split rims...
Point is, I kept up with the maintenance and treated it like a boat....always assume there is something you have to do with it to keep it going. Planes, Boats, and RV's are generally hand made with semi-custom parts and systems. They require constant attention. That old Winnie was work but we had fun with it. Actually sorry I sold it since it would have been a great restoration/classic RV project. I went back to the owner and unfortunately Hurricane Irma brought down a tree on top of it and crushed the roof and one side...then the owner fell ill. There was too much to repair so I moved on.
I love these tours too Marc! Thanks for letting me see it too! Boxes on land, concrete. Eh, I'd rather live in a box on wheels! Not stuck.
us too!
A lot of great information. But I was thirsty for more specifics on vendor materials manufacturer. trends on new amenities and their differences in quality. I saw a video that someone else provided saying that the vendors were very limited compared to the amount of manufacturers and they pretty much use all the same vendors. Maybe you could do a video on the best water heater or the best refrigerator or the best sink what are the best cabinet hardware
Thanks for your feedback. This is a very big topic indeed. It is true that most manufacturers bet their components from a relatively small group of vendors. But, there are still variances in the level of products they can choose from. We will consider doing the other component comparisons in the future, though in our opinion, wouldn't want to limit 'best' of anything to only what comes in RVs. When we recently remodeled our motorhome. Many of the new items we installed were originally intended for residential homes (fridge, faucets, microwave, and more). Check out our renovation series for more information. rvlove.com/2019/04/15/episode-8-the-final-reveal-ultimate-rv-makeover/
I used to work for a lot of different RV shops. I would have to say the company with the worst quality was Thor Motor Coach. I got horror stories about them. Finally had enough of their crap. I left the industry 2 years ago and couldn't be happier
Thanks for sharing your experiences. Glad to hear that you are happier with your new chapter. -M
Thank you for posting so much useful information, in this and other video's. We are in the planning stages and you are a great help!!!! 👍👍👍
:)
Ok....if you are deciding on 3 Motorhomes- Same floor plan and about the same price- None have anything major wrong with them---What should be the deciding factor(s)?
Also look at the brand reputation, load carry capacities, insulation quality of components. For example, feel how the basement doors, and interior cabinets can vary widely in quality of materials and feel. Some are built better to hold up to extended use.
hi guys, We enjoyed the video, thanks. Lots of good insight for consumers to think about. I understand that no one can say which is the best rv to buy but my question in that direction would be... Of the rv factory tours taken, which rv builds impressed you the most and why?
You are quite right - we can not accurately say which is 'the best RV' as it is such a subjective, individual decision and there are far more factors to consider than is even possible to even list here! Buying an RV is such a complex process - one that requires a lot of planning, research and decision making around what is important to you, what fits your budget, what are the trade-offs? So it is different for everybody and we feel way too many people get hung up on 'what is the best' when the more accurate question should be 'what is the best RV for my needs and budget'? And also, of course, which TYPE of RV? Class A, B, C, gas, diesel, Travel trailer, fifth wheel?
But you asked which RV build impressed us most...
The majority of people probably won't want to hear that the RV builds that impressed us most were, not surprisingly, from the more high end/luxury brands (= more expensive) like Entegra, Newmar, DRV, Augusta... but then we also expect to be pretty impressed in the next few weeks when we do the Marathon tour in Oregon .. after all, their coaches sell for a cool $1.5M - $2million.
So this will continue to evolve over time as we do more tours... for today, that's the best answer we can give :)
Happy to come across your page! We just left Elkhart yesterday! We toured Jayco and Heartland and want to go back to tour more! I can't believe you guys did 14 tours in a week!!!! WOW lol cheers fellow RVers!
Hi there, yes it's very interesting and informative doing the tours... many similarities yet differences as well. Yes it was an intense week and we didn't' get to do anything else, but we learned a lot... Still there are many more left to do and see. Enjoy!
It is we learned a lot just doing those 2. Def an intense week!!! lol but we are with you guys anything RV just gets us excited!!! Even our 2 & 5 year old are super into it! Safe travels!
That is so cute your kids are into it too LOL Safe travels to you too!
"Made In America" used to be a good thing. No longer. I think all of the construction issues with RVs has yet to catch up to the industry. Not only are they issues of "quality", but they are also issues of "health and safety". The top bunk on my Forest River Salem FSX 179DBK collapsed on our first outing. There were only 2 screws holding it up. My 3-year old was playing in the bottom bunk just minutes before that happened. Thank god he wasn't under there at the time. Sooner or later a class-action lawsuit is going to hit a major manufacturer and that will be the end of this so-called "self-regulated industry".
Thanks for sharing. Glad to hear that nobody was hurt. We agree that the quality issues are more than just livability. There are significant health and safety concerns related to them. It is a tough situation for manufacturers as consumers so often buy on price, and are not willing to pay more for better quality, so much of the industry competes on price. Admittedly, this is part of the reason we bought such an older coach when making our recent RV purchase.
So, why aren't people like you and others who recognize safety issues not working to fix it? If that were my kids, ok or not, that was too close. Right now, july 2020 is not the time, but once we have a decent government and beyond covid 19, but i really think we need to at the very least start with life threatening safety issues. These guys budget lawsuits and forget about the real lives behind them. They might be lacking empathy...sound familiar? Not all, i am sure, but that bunk accident is just too much and someone should have been held accountable. I have seen splintered wood jabbed into a kid's skull! She lived, but 1/8 " difference could have had a completely different outcome. Please.
Thank you so much for sharing your insights.
You are so welcome! Glad it was helpful. -M
Excellent video! Thank you! Take care.
Thank you!
You guys are animals! 14 tours in a week? We were planning to hit the Newmar Factory at some point but never really thought of doing other manufacturers' tours. We'll have to check some out. It's very interesting how they are built. Great video, thanks!
Yes it was intense but we enjoyed it. Yes Newmar builds a great product but always good to visit others as well so you have a point of comparison/reference. Glad you enjoyed the video
Great and helpful video. Thanks!
Thank you
Great video! You covered a lot of points. The sad fact is that 90% of all American made RV's are utter crap. It's all about the profit...
Thanks, yes the inconsistency of quality is frustrating for sure - and it can change at any time...
Thank you for the good information, pictures and honest assessments. I'm looking at an older class C, because from I can see they are better built and designed. Wish I could go visit the factories, but thanks so much for taking us along!
You're welcome! Take your time and do your homework, look at their after sales customer service as well.
Great information, planning a trip in June to learn more. I would like the mechanical things in your experience that are items to gear toward, regardless of the unit purchased. You hit me with this information at the right time. Your experience is valuable, share just a little bit more. Thank you,,,
Glad you enjoyed the video and plan to visit and do tours on your own. It is great for education and understanding. I like to look at the main structural frame, and wall construction on all RVs, as this varies quite a bit. There are definite differences between manufacturers especially in welding on metal framed items. Also interesting to see differences in insulation type and installation methods. When looking at plumbing I like to see that it is internal to protect against elements, but installed in a way that allows reasonable access. Look at construction materials too. For example, some will use inexpensive chip board plywood, and others will use marine grade higher quality plywood. Multiplex wiring is becoming very popular and is mostly good, but nice to have back-up switches in case of software failure. Most manufacturers use common suppliers for appliances like water heaters, air conditioners, furnace, etc, but there are different levels of quality from those third party suppliers. Of course, your planned use of your RV will decide the level of importance of construction quality. A full time traveler living in multiple climates will have higher appreciation for quality than the occasional weekend RVer. Looking at simple components like latches on cabinets (interior and exterior) can say a lot about other components used in build.
Good information. Thanks for sharing
You're welcome
Hello you guys. Great video post. We live in Yuma, Arizona year around. We will start looking to purchase an RV by next year. How do you find out about the RV Shows, and where there having them. We can start RV shows by as early as January of next year. Love your accent! Thank you!
HI Jose, glad you liked the video. You can find the calendar of RV events right here www.rvia.org/?esid=rvshows good luck in your search!
I'd like to hear your specific insights in to each specific manufacturer.
Great video - really interesting.
Thanks glad you enjoyed it
I understand you want to be able to monetize your knowledge you obtained from spending a lot of time, energy and money to gain that knowledge. Nothing wrong with making a return on your efforts. I do think your video would be better received if you were up front about your decision as to why you have chosen to not share publicly your thoughts on the quality of specific manufacturers. The quality of specific manufacturers is not dependent on people’s specific needs and wants which is the reason you gave for not publicly sharing that information. Just be up front and tell people that information on manufacturer quality is for sale for a price. You deserve to be remunerated for your efforts.
Hi Mark, thanks for your comment - the response to this video and blog has been interesting for sure and certainly surprising to us that is has been misconstrued by many. This is nothing to do with manufacturer quality information for sale at a price - if you want that go to www.RVreviews.net and see the guides that their team spends a year producing to answer that question but even that is also about way more than just the manufacture/build processes. Yes, we do charge for our time for a one-on-one consultation where can get specific in the answers relevant to a person's situation, as we don't take these questions lightly and give generic answers. We factor in SO MANY MORE considerations than simply what we saw at the factory. What we have come to realize is most people do not understand that RV manufacturers ASSEMBLE parts - hundreds/thousands of them - to make an RV. There are so many variables and the chassis is a large component (and contributor to the price), as are the appliances, wiring, plumbing/electrical, insulation and the list goes on. Each manufacturer claims theirs is 'the best' so who do you believe? Then there is the warranty, after sales service, dealer PDI which is one of THE most important factors of all but no-one talks about (and very few understand) this. This video was about the insights and lessons learned, what we saw and what people need to take into consideration and be aware of. At no time anywhere did we say this was about which were the best manufacturers yet for some reason people have assumed this. How can we provide a specific answer to that after a 2 hour plant tour when it would take an engineer weeks or months to answer your question...? Our offer to work on a consulting basis with people and let them know about the School was to be able to provide far more education, personalized and accurate guidance for that person, based on their needs and budget as we realize there are many people out there who would value the opportunity to be able to sit down and discuss their RV shopping, criteria, needs in detail and get an understanding of which brands/models would be worthy of their consideration - and fits their budget. Also remember there are so many types of RVs - Class A (gas/diesel), Class B, Class C, Super C, travel trailer, 5th wheel - so WHICH RV are we then referring to? Every part of an RV - build/ process/ components/ choice of chassis has their pros and cons and each has a trade-off - so what is 'best' will depend very much on what is most important to that person. This is an extremely complex question and an even more complex answer, and quite simply, is impossible to give people the answer they want in a simple video or blog post - at least not with accuracy, thought and consideration of their situation. What we have learned here is this type of information is probably less suited to our RVLove channels and perhaps better shared in our RV Success School where we can really go into a lot more detail and discussion and explain why, to a smaller, more focused audience that is actively shopping for an RV and getting the education and understanding of the bigger picture first so they can understand why this is not as simple, easy to answer as one might hope and the tools to help them navigate that process. The purpose of the video was not to tell people the info was for sale at a price, and we apologize if it came across that way. We truly felt the information we shared was informative and educational, and would help anyone in the RV research/shopping process.
The old saying goes, you get what you pay for! Does that guarantee you a quality rig with no problems? NO! Every person has to decide what is the best venue for them when it comes to a purchase. Fifth Wheel vs. Class C vs. Class B, vs gas/diesel motorhome and how much they are willing to pay for quality. Again, quality does not guarantee anyone a fool proof rig. I have also been to factories and did over 2 years research on which RV to purchase. Wife and I settled on a Foretravel Coach. These are quality and custom built and even though we wanted one, we did not opt for a new one. We bought used and loved this coach.
Now, my list of what I would purchase based on my experience: Motorhomes;
Foretravel, Newell, Country Coach, older Holiday Ramblers (Navigator), Tiffin.
Fifth Wheels: older DRV, NuWa and Teton
Class C: Winnebago and older Thor Four Winds
I agree with Mark, I would not recommend Forest River.
These are all subjective and my own personal opinion. Hope this helps, but Mark and Julie gave everyone some great information to assist those out there just starting out.
Thanks Joe, great advice which we agree with wholeheartedly.
Thanks for doing the hard work!
You're welcome, this is but scratching the surface!
I think staying at a B and B makes more sense than buting an RV now days. I seen the tours and how they mass produce these campers and throw those things together. It would be best just to buy a heavy duty equipment trailer and build your own camper. As you stated, those RV places get their stuff from the same manufacturer. So just buy the windows and doors,then using good quality materials, nor particle wood flooring and cheap thin materials. The quality of materials they use is junk. The R value in insultation is NOT the same as used in a home. Unregulated means they can build cheap stuff with no problem or pressure from politics.
Yes, we have met a few folks who built their own RVs from heavy duty trailers and were able to make them exactly how they want with whichever materials they wanted. Good option for some, but most don't have the skill set or time. B and Bs are great, but don't have the versatility of RVs. Thank you for your comments
Would like to have heard more specifics about your observations. If some did QC, which ones? More details would have been nice.
Thank you for your feedback. All claim to do some QC, but not full inspections of every system. Full inspections of most towable products are random samples. Some do one in four, others do less, others do more. Higher end products like high end Diesel coaches tend to see higher QC, but not always the case. With most manufacturers unable to keep up with production, many seem to be passing on QC to dealer network which increases the importance of having a quality dealer involved in your purchase process.
Grand Design has a pretty impressive PDI and QC process compared to most other manufacturers
They do have a reputation for having a better QC than many other manufacturers. They spoke to that when we were doing the tours as well. -M
Not sure if any tours are available in elkhart area due to covid??!
I would expect that that are currently no tours open to the public during the pandemic. But, once they open back up, hopefully you can go. -M
Good opening drive through Balance Rock at Garden of the Gods, in Colorado Springs Colorado 🤙
Thank you. Yes, we love Garden of the Gods. Definitely need to be VERY careful with the route you drive in there when you have an RV though. -M
Some of the individuals who commented were not pleased that you chose to not recommend one brand or type of rv over another. However, had these individuals listened more closely, they would have heard you share many opinions about quality. I heard you say that, overall, quality control is poor and that if one wants to ensure the quality of ones rv, one had better go to the factory/plant and closely examine how that brand of rv is constructed. I also inferred that not only might quality vary from brand to brand but even within a brand, the quality of one rv might vary from that of another. Hence, it behooves an rv buyer to pay for an independent inspection of the rv, new or used, prior to putting any money down.
Thank you Laurel. Loved to hear that you caught the messages and learnings within the video that not everyone else seems to hear. You will surely be able to avoid many of the pitfalls that others who pay less attention will fall victim to. Wishing you every success and joy!
Did you or have you visited the tiffin factory? I asked because I am trying to decide between a Winnebago class A and Tiffin class A. Winnebago seems to taught that they make theirs better than Tiffin does and with so much better products and quality. You’ve seen many which is why I ask. Are the tops the same material and how about insulation? Thanks for the help.
Yes, we have visited the Tiffin factory. Many manufacturers like to state that they make the best. Winnebago has more automation, and produce more of their own parts than some of the others. But I would not say that they have a better reputation for overall quality. Haven't done side by side comparison on insulation with Winnebago and Tiffin. I believe they both use block foam. Newmar (and high end Entegra) use residential style insulation and believe that has merits in sound and temperature insulation. So much to consider in RV purchase process. Have you also looked at our courses at RV Success School? rvsuccessschool.teachable.com/
Wishing you every success and joy -M
RVLove | Marc & Julie Bennett thanks for the help. Sorry I didn’t mean to get caught up on insulation. It’s just Winnebago says they do make a lot of their stuff in house making them better than other. They also taught v-ride technology and all. That’s what I was curious about and if you noticed their factory had better quality. Thanks for the help.
Marc & Julie this was really great information. I have one big question... you have been to the Tiffin facility in Red Bay to have service work done, and so have I. I really liked that it didn't take weeks to get things done and it was done right, and you could get right in there and see what they were doing and ask questions! Is there another RV manufacturer who has a facility like Tiffin?
Hi Sam, from what we understand Rev Group (Monaco, Fleetwood, American Coach, Holiday Rambler etc) does have one in Decatur (our friend has taken his coach there many times) and they are building service centers around the country. Entegra also has a service facility in Middlebury. We also believe Heartland (fifth wheels) do too and I am sure many other manufacturers too, we just don't have a list. Our focus during this visit was the manufacturing and sadly we ran out of time to look at service facilities - could have stayed another month!
Newmar is great for service work. They even have a free campground with FHU's for coaches in for service. They come get your coach at 6 am and usually have it back to you by 2 pm. You can generally stay in the coach even if your service/warranty work takes several days. And rumor is, they are expanding the campground and service facilities. Everyone seems to rave about their service facilities and their service.
You will find that some of the top of the line RV's are not built in Indiana. You must tour the Foretravel factory in Texas and check them out. One thing I have always looked for in a build is how the electric is run, water lines, etc. This is where most of the problems occur that you actually need to bring in to a dealer or repair shop. Doors that don't fit or loose hinges, etc., those are items that the consumer needs to be able to fix. You have a home rolling down the road and things do go wrong and work their way loose. There is a reason why manufactures don't want videos of their plants!
Very true Joe! Yes, we continue to do factory tours where we can, as we make our way around the country. We plan to get to Marathon in October in Oregon and will visit Foretravel in the winter as we plan to be in Texas. We also look for how they run the water/electric is run, insulation, structure, access to common issues like slides... and yes you definitely need to be able to fix some things yourself! Good point why many don't want videos LOL
Marc and Julie - Thank you for the video and for all the replies to user comments. To echo other posters, after much research we have come to the conclusion that most RVs are built basically the same from the same materials, and quality control is pretty terrible. This has led us to consider class B RVs. You showed an image of an Airstream Interstate class B RV in your video, so you must have come across them in your tour. Correct me if I’m wrong, but my research has shown that the quality of class B RVs is generally much, much higher than most class As (except for very high end) , class Cs, travel trailers, and fifth wheels. The class Bs will never de-laminate, they seldom leak, their cabinetry is put together much better, and the fit finish and quality can’t be compared to most RVs. Hence, the very high price tag for most class Bs, even though they have much smaller living space than other RVs. Have you found this to be true as well? Thanks in advance.
Sorry for the super late reply, this only recently showed up. But yes.. we agree that Class B RVs are better quality in many ways being built on automotive chassis. -M
Great information!! Thanks for sharing
Sure thing!
Nice work. I have passed the RV Museum but never stopped in.
It's worth checking out!
Stop in and say hi sometime
BOB PEG Will do.
Thank you for your video and caveat emptor re quality. It would also be helpful if you could pinpointed the manufacturing/design differences and shortcomings (using as an example the same RV class), so that pressure is put on all of them through a better educated public in order for them to deliver a better American motorhome.
In any motorhome factory I would be looking for the material the walls/roof are made of, such as Azdel (synthetic, non-wood, fiberglass, vacuum bonded) vs. the inferior wood containing components. Truss system and galvanized steel of the chassis vs. no extra support and roto cast plastic, one piece fiberglass laminated roof, hitch capacity/hot bolted, etc. Fiberglass cabinets, vs. wooden ones, so that a user will have more loading capacity and more modern European look. I need to carry maximum load in my rig instead of wood in the shape of bezeled cabinets from my grandma's house straight from the last century. The Indiana RV industry is one of the most tree wasting industries in America, when you really think about it.
Perhaps after seeing 14 factories you can compile a list of factories/rigs using the best components and/or RV building practices, with the best design. There is some improvement in the last year or two regarding interior design, to be fair, but it is too slow and too little is done in my opinion.
BTW, those who have the best wall material (e.g. Coachmen-Prism in class-C) do not have best cabinetry, or the strongest bunk bed and vice-versa. Each of them (Jayco Melbourne, Tiffin Wayfarer, Coachmen-Prism Elite speaking of Class-C) has a mix of good, bad and mediocre. None of them has superiority over the other, unless Azdel type material is used by only one of them. But I dont know that watching your video. And all of those class-C rigs have that shi#ty shower cabin with those horrendously looking "tiles"...
Please stigmatise them and put pressure on that industry so that it can become more honest, less greedy and lazy, while educating the public in the same time. Thank you.
I didn't realize that the Jayco factory was so close - I would LOVE to tour that one. I think that it would be fascinating to see inside the factories. Thanks for the heads up on the closed toe shoes...I would have messed that up!
Yes Diane, go and do a few if you can so you can have a comparison/point of reference.
Jayco plant tours can be scheduled by visiting their main office in Middlebury Indiana
There is a YT video about Jayco building a travel trailer in 6 hours - junk. You might find that interesting. It sure opened my eyes.
I saw that too. Junk is right. After seeing that, and another vlog by some unfortunate guy who had one for 2 months that was falling apart, I wouldn't even get one if the manufacturer paid me.
I'm curious to know which manufacturers you were most impressed with and why.
It is a very complex answer. We have answered a few times in previous comments on this video.
@@Rvlove I would like to see the individual factories vlogged. Will you ever go back?
Hi Julie and Mark ,
Nice to see you ! Hope your doing well. After seeing so many RV manufacturers would you have bought a different brand & model instead of the make and model RV you presently have? Will you be coming to the west coast of Florida this winter? If so I hope we can meet up and have a meal or two together . Safe travels always ! Cheers !!
HI Bob, we are doing great, thank you. Nice to hear from you. We remain very happy with our choice of RV - make and model - which were a perfect fit for our needs, budget and circumstances at that time (and since). We would not have changed a thing as that is what worked for US at that time. However, now that our needs are changing, and knowing that we plan to be RVing for the long haul, we are starting to consider a change but it is far too soon yet to know what kind, brand, model.... we would need to go through the same process that we did back in 2013 and revisit the questions, considerations, research, prep and planning to get a clear picture of what we want and would suit our next phase AND fit our budget of course. Clarity around all of this is paramount, before being able to then move to the 'choosing the RV' phase of the journey. We know a lot more know than we did back then of course, but we still find going through the self assessment process to be the most important step, as it then makes narrowing down to the right RV easier to align it with. We will be in the south west for the winter and not FL sadly, hope you made it through the Hurricanes unscathed! One day we definitely hope to meet up! Safe travels to you too!
Instead of asking which is the "best" rv, in your opinion, based on the tours you experienced, which is the best manufactured fifth wheel?
Great video you guys, so thorough! Top Tours? Your favorite tours? My only question if I were there....why on earth do designers have to make RVs tan, brown, and black on the inside? Why can't we have beautiful white & bright kitchens and living spaces? I can't stand their color palettes we when looked at the new RVs on the lots. Honestly, they were ugly looking to us with big brown recliners, fake stone fireplace/mantles, dark, dark cabinets, dark tables, dark walls...dark bedrooms. I didn't like any of them!
Buyers have to paint all the cabinets white and brighten the walls to feel like it has more room and not so depressing. I see this over and over, people painting their RV to "brighten" it up on YT. The older models are more way cuter compared to the new models. I wish I knew you guys were going, I would have asked you to tell the management to consult Chip & Joanna Gaines on space issues and decorating styles for today's families.
RVLove | Marc & Julie Bennett So what I am getting from your video is to fix up that 50 year old 24’ Prowler I just pulled of the mountain. It is structurally sound. It is ugly (paint is weathering off). It is dated and looks dated. My wife and I are not fans of the layout at all. It needs a little work on some things, but it works for the most part. Fridge doesn’t chill when using propane. One set of windows has stripped gears on open/close mechanism, so it opened in the wind when we towed it off the mountain a couple weeks ago. The brakes seem to pretty much not work. I feel the tiniest of resistance when applying it. The cushions are lousy and need replacing.
BUT, It has been under one owner essentially for almost 50 years. My grandparents bought it in 1972. They took it literally everywhere. I wonder how many thousands of miles they put on it. My parents took it over around 1990 and used it for a few years (towing it with a small SUV, a GMC S15 Jimmy, probably 5,000 lbs. GVWR) and used it a little. It sat for about ten years. Then I took it over in 2005. I fixed it up except for the aforementioned things, and put it on some mountain property in Colorado (dry and high at 8-9000 feet).
So, it might be better to fix these few things myself and use the ugly thing. Sounds like if I buy new anytime soon, I will be fixing a lot anyway. Do I have that right?
You will likely have a few things to fix whether you keep an older RV, or buy a relatively new one. Depends on what you plan to do with it. If you only occasionally use it and it mostly just sits vacant on your property in Colorado, it might not be worth switching. But, if you plan on using it alot, and as you mentioned, you don't like the layout, there are probably plenty of other RVs out there that you might like better, There are definitely some things you might like better in the last nearly 50 years of RVs.
Hi Marc & Julie! Do you mind sharing your thoughts on new Thor motorhomes? We just bought the new Thor Challenger 37 TB and love it. But it seems a lot of people don’t care for Thor. Did you visit there location for a tour? If so, what are your thoughts with this Co.? Thanks for sharing this great video. I adore you both.
HI Latada, Thor makes MANY different kinds of motorhomes and RVs and we haven't seen them all... we personally know people who have had positive experiences and love their Thor and we know others who didn't and have since sold it. So who is to say? But this also goes for many other manufacturers as well. I think the main point of your comment is this: "We just bought the new Thor Challenger 37 TB and love it" - this is the most important thing. Maybe a lot of people don't care for Thor, but it's not their RV, it's yours. People get very opinionated about RVs and brands and it is literally impossible to make a blanket judgment about a brand or model unless one has had a first-hand experience with it - and even then, their experience is limited to that brand, model, year and that particular unit. Another identical unit built on the same day could turn out differently! This is what is so inconsistent about RVs and even brands as these are hand built units, assembling hundreds of parts from other manufacturers - to make an RV. So really, our opinion on Thor is irrelevant, as we haven't owned one... what matters is you love yours and are having a good experience with it... don't go looking for problems with it that may not exist. No RV is perfect and all will need repairing at some point. Just keep a good, realistic attitude about it and focus on enjoying your RV and the lifestyle and not what other people say...Thor is a large company that owns many RV brands (something like 40% of the market?) so all we really can comment to regarding the company is they seem to be aggressively growing as a company in the RV space and from what we were told at the factory tour, they are making a concerted effort to improve their customer service. But like we said, we've never owned one so can't comment personally if that is true. We met one fellow in Palm Springs who owns 2 Thor diesel motorhomes (one on each coast!!!) and loves them, thinks they have the greatest service ever while others may disagree. Remember, everyone also has a different expectation and perception and attitude, to be careful whose you pay attention to and don't go looking for problems that may not exist. Just keep on loving and using and taking good care of your motorhome!
A very sincere thanks for your response to my question on Thor MotorCoach. As I mentioned we actually had our coach built by Thor. The build took approx. 4 months. It’s the 2017 Challenger 37 TB. This is truly a beautiful coach. I really needed to hear... don’t go looking for problems, or letting others that only have negative things to say about Thor influence my thoughts. Yes it’s true, every manufacturer will have issues at some point as these are all hand built. As long as we are having a good experience with ours and Thor, just enjoy it! Thank you both for your generosity for giving us the tools and knowledge that we all need to make this experience and lifestyle so much more enjoyable. You guys are America’s most adorable couple! Wishing you both safe and happy travels. (Miles of smiles)
Latada I am looking at the Thor AXIS, however I am not buying anything yet because of the many negative reviews. What has your experience been? Have all of the systems worked or did they need repair? Thanks for your answer? -Ed from Lancaster CA
Ed Victory. Do you know that the Axis is on the same platform as a Class C?
Thank you for your posting. It was very informative. a little scary, and due to your adivceI will visit any factory's near so I an understand how they are build, and hopefully know what to check when we are looking for our first RV. again Thank you!
Thank you. Glad you found it helpful. enjoy the tours and the learning.
This was posted in the second half of 2017 and yes the industry was booming and all the plants were pushing out so many units that it was the best year the market was flooded so much and not many people were buying that production went way down tons of lay off and some plants actually shut down my plant included i worked for thor motor coach and we were pushing out 500 units a week as a company a week and went down to just 150 units
Thank you for sharing your perspective. We had heard that this year's production was still going strong. Very interesting to hear otherwise from somebody who used to work in one of the plants. Sorry to hear that you were part of a shut down. Thor motorcoach has multiple plants. Curious which one you worked at. Which units?
I've lived in Indiana all my life, and it just blows me away that you would come all the way from Australia to check out Elkart! Great video, really. Yes, I would have liked to hear a couple brands recommended, but I know why you didn't. We're getting ready to buy our first trailer - we did own a Pleasureway for many years, to haul my husband's books all over the US. He's a writer. But this is for joy, for retirement, for driving down into Mexico and all over the US. We want it to be right, and Chris' face gets dark every time he hears another lemon story, to the point I think he's going to back out. Like I'll let him. But if it's a piece of junk, I"ll never hear the end of it. So, it might not help, but I'm touring them all. Right now I'm leaning to Lance, Little Guy Max, Heartland or Airstream.
Hi Alice, haha I have lived in the USA since late 2008 so didn't come all the way from Australia just to visit Elkhart! Yes, it is tough re the brands question - and it totally depends on one's budget, needs, usage etc. But the brands you are leaning too are all solid choices. Something to keep in mind is that the unhappy people will always shout about their RV's problems all over the internet and social media and that kind of message attracts more attention. Then there are the people - probably the majority - who are out living the life and having fun and not focusing on all the problems. There are NO guarantees with any RV, or brand, but the best things you can do are this:
1. Do your research, which it sounds like you are already doing, and don't rush the process
2. While owner forums are useful, try not to get too obsessed with them as they also often become a breeding ground for attracting drama (which attracts more drama) - it's important to be able to read in between the lines and keep a healthy and balanced perspective
3. Get a professional inspection if buying used - it will be worth every penny! If buying new, this is still an option! But pick a reputable dealer that does a good job with PDIs before delivery.
4. An extended service contract offers great peace of mind and can minimize repair costs and headaches. We recommend getting one and Wholesale Warranties bit.ly/wswarranty is the company we recommend - good prices and excellent service, they offer a range of policies and can help direct you to the best one for your needs
5. Take care of it with regular maintenance
Essentially, do all the right things and your chances of ending up with a lemon are very low indeed... Above all, managing expectations is key - when you know what to expect (they won't be perfect but when buying used, the bugs are more likely to have been worked out by the first owner - and keep a good attitude - it's all part of the adventure! Those who focus on the negatives tend to attract them, and honestly, we've seen and heard way more positive experiences than negative ones - by doing your due diligence you're on the right track.
Finally, if you aren't already of our RV Success School, you might want to check out our online courses - what I have shared here is just scratching the surface and we are happy to share that a lot of people who have experienced very positive results after taking the classes before making such a big purchasing decision and life change. The courses guide you through the process, educate you on all the important things you need to know and also help you navigate those fears of the unknown... if you want to learn more, jump over to RVSuccessSchool.com - we have a promo code until 31 December, 2017 that gives 20% off all the courses.
Wishing you all the best!
Alice VonKannon get on the little guy max Forum to get some insights
From the extensive research I have done, I think NorthWood MFG is probably built the best. Or at least one of the best built.
Thanks for sharing your opinion. We will keep an eye out for them. Hopefully we can do a tour of their facility some day.
I think Lance has them beat.
Julie and Marc, once again...
What should be your deciding factor if you are looking a several manufactuers and nothing are wrong with any of them....price?
There are always differences and features that you may like better on one than another. we think brand reputation is important. But if that is less important to you, you may want to focus on floor plan. There are many things you can change aftermarket, but major elements of floor plan often can't be changed without considerable expense. Price can often be modified by looking at newer or older versions of an RV (new versus pre-owned)
Thank you, great video. I will be buying a truck camper soon. They are such a small percentage of the "RV's" built I am finding that it is hard to find just what I want. Stay well and happy camping.
Good luck in your search!
Thanks for the video
You're welcome!
I have been doing a little research on quality and manufacturers. That brought me to your video. It seems there is really no independent reviews and ratings, and rankings of manufacturers. The best I can find are a couple of sites that gather and post customer reviews and satisfaction. I find that alarming! Is it that everyone finds themselves in the position you are in? Where no company truly stands out?
What I have gathered so far is that Jayco has one of the best warranties, but the feedback I read is they are middle of the road on quality at best, if not worse. The best average customer satisfaction seems to be with Grand Design at almost 5 out of 5 average customer reviews. They look very nice, but are very high end. I appreciate high end quality wise and would pay for it, but I don’t really need or want the high end luxury for camping. The next best average rating I have seen consistently is Palomino that seems to average at 3.7-3.9 stars out of 5 on quite a few reviews. Every other manufacturer seems to be right at 3 stars or less. Sigh. It is much easier to research quality on cars, dishwashers, furniture, just about anything else.
RVs are definitely much more difficult to get good data on it compared to cars. The most comprehensive resource for that kind of information we are aware of is RVReviews.net
As in all things RV, that would be 'it depends'. As far as Jayco construction, I don't think I would personally buy one of their 'low end' sticks and staples units, because of personal experience with RV's constructed that way, and the fact that a vid put out by Jayco brags about the number units 32 per day they can crank out: czcams.com/video/aLHux4SuXbY/video.html
Now, the higher end units, such as the 5th wheel units, construction is different, kind of a hybrid with bonded aluminum walls, but still with wood framed end caps and roof with rubber covering:: czcams.com/video/TcIzGlIjLrI/video.html
It is interesting that those working for the RV Manufacturers don't own their own RVs or have any experience with use of an RV. In somewhat (self admitted unequal comparison) I work for Boeing and don't own a wide body aircraft, or any aircraft for that matter, nor have had the opportunity to fly on any with exception of the single aisle 737.
Thanks for the great perspective. I have had similar thoughts. I remember working for a nutritional supplement company years ago, and though most who worked there were interested in nutrition and working out, there were still a number of folks who worked there that never tried any of the products. So even at that low cost of entry to try it, there were still those who didn't have experience with the product. The Boeing comparison is a fun comparison as very few would have a lot of experience with the planes. Still interesting that it seems to be a relatively low number of folks who work in the RV industry that have much experience with RVing. At least some of the manufacturers have units available for employees to borrow to give them experience. Thanks again for the comment.
On your tours did you happen to find an RV maker that puts aluminum in their floors instead of wood? I am highly allergic to mold and am looking to upgrade our TT to an aluminum / azdel unit. Any advise would be appreciated. Thanks.
Hello,
We haven't seen their tour personally, but www.livinlite.com/ is a travel trailer manufacturer that I am aware of that uses aluminum for all structure. You can check out photos of their tour from their website at www.livinlite.com/brochures/2017/Livin-Lite-Plant-Tour-2017.pdf Wishing you well.
RVLove | Marc & Julie Bennett thank you so much.
Clicked link and watched. Seems to be the best so far. real quality. Bet these will last far longer than, oh let's say Jayco.
Hi guys, great video. I noticed in a few pictures that you visited The RV Factory...are they as amazing in person as they seem to be "as seen on CZcams"?
Hi there, yes we did visit the RV Factory and were impressed with what we saw. You pay for that of course! LOL But yes we consider them to be very good products.
Industry is booming of course people now a days can't afford a mortgage buying a motohome makes sense especially the used ones
Yes used is a good way to go
I've been looking but have not noticed if any of the RV Manufacturer's use any conduit for the wiring or just pull the wires through the unit. All the movement that these units go through on the roads explains how wires get damaged rubbing against the frame itself and a conduit would avoid all of that. Anyone know of or have any electrical issues with shorting out??
Have seen the use of conduit in some units, but you are right that the more common practice seems to be to just pull the wires without conduit. Have heard of some issues with shorting out, but surprisingly few.
Thank you for the info. I've had two RVing friends who have had issues of rubbed wires. Anyone who has access to their undercarriage might want to consider insulating their wires from touching any metal framework.
Thankns
Are you two going to upgrade your coach soon? My wife and I bought a Tiffin 32sa 6 months ago brand new and we love full timing so much we are selling it and building a new Tiffin Phaeton IH. The 32SA is just to small and doesn’t have the amenities for full-timing we really want. What are your plans?
HI there, congrats on your decision to up your ante re full-timing, am sure you will love your Phaeton. Yes 32' would be too small for us as well. We are starting to talk about what is next and whether to upgrade... at the moment it is just a conversation, but if/when we decide to make a change, we will let people know :) Lots to think/talk about.
Thanks for the reply! I hope you stick with Tiffin. We are in Spokane now and heading to Oregon. We love it when camp sites are nice and quiet. Take Care.