Liberalism's Last Stand | with Helen Pluckrose
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- čas přidán 14. 05. 2024
- Helen Pluckrose returns to discuss her new book: The Counterweight Handbook: Principled Strategies for Surviving and Defeating Critical Social Justice―at Work, in Schools, and Beyond. We also talk about the origins of her moral philosophy and her newfound love of Norse mythology.
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Complete tangent: "Helen Pluckrose" is the most awesome name ever.
It’s definitely the most English name ever
Like something out of a Dorothy Sayers mystery
Positively Shakespearian
@@offshoretomorrow3346I think more Charles Dickens.
Wonderful interview Benjamin. You're a talent. I love listening to Helen. Smart woman.
Thank you both. Thoughtful and enlightening as usual.
Thanks for all you do Helen, I have so appreciated your contributions over the years. I’m pleased to hear you’re in a much better place - that burnout time sounds completely overwhelming for anyone. You help so many people but please prioritise also your own health from now on. I say that selfishly, we need you to remain strong voice in the public arena
"Do I know when to stop? No." I resemble that comment.
One time my son (when he was still a teenager) said "dad, it's time to go to bed." I replied "I can't! Somebody on the internet is wrong!"
Love Helen. She has the biggest heart.
Helen I always prioritise to listen when you talk. Thank you Benjamin, as always.
hear hear!
Return to Tradition. Liberalism was always going to turn into this
I knew this as a teenager in the 90s. Any time politics came up, I would ask people which philosophical principle separated a liberal from a socialist. After about 20 minutes of back and forth, the answer was always “nothing, they are the same thing”.
You guys still don't get what liberalism is lol read a book that's not by a dumb person. JS Mill's On Liberty, for example.
@@ChollieD I’m talking about “liberalism after the early 1900s progressive era in America”. Try to keep up.
You mean the traditionalism that brought feudalism and a corrupt pope? The traditionalism of the Medicis and other oligarchs and plutocrats that originated much of the banking and financial systems we use today? Even if that were possible, what large unifying identity makes everyone abide this "traditionalism?"
Carl Benjamin fan?
"Tradition is just an experiment that worked"
-- winemaker's saying
So glad Helen is back, hadn't realise she had had a personal set back, did hear she had left Countrweight thought she might have had a crisis of faith in her project.
I have such great respect for Helen- I am always grateful for another opportunity to hear her speak. The amount of pets to care for and reading she does makes me exhausted! I am super impressed by this formidable woman! ❤
Benjamin failed to do her justice in this. Came across as bired and distracted: Helen was a delight.
You can't have a Welfare State and open borders. You have to choose which one you want. You can't have both.
How about neither. Since both are so obviously wrong and evil.
@@bmardiney one at a time is easier to accomplish.
It's so much worse than that. We have non government organizations facilitating the invasion, completey outside of any law framework or representation of what we actually want to do. And then tax payers are forced to pay for them at local levels once they are trafficked within the country. And now we have "liberals" staging these absurd debates about open vs closed borders.. as if we are still in 2016 or before. We have had an ongoing open border situation with a facilitated invasion by hostile elites who do not care or even try to represent or take care of their own people. And I fail to see where "liberalism" does anything helpful in this situation especially since it's mostly been used to create the situation.
Any form of sensible speech like that will soon be illegal, _like how "auntie-shem'tizm" be lately_
5 Eyes and british empire are pushing their hand to a brink now; its been the same basic objectives since WW1 and it's become high time to shake up the map for real after they've succeeded in culling 5-7% of us with the various plandemics from AIDS to covid-19 and beyond.
Helen you are an incredible lady with too much of the world on your shoulders. Hopefully one day rewarded with plenty of rest and a better world in large part because of you. 😊
Thomas Sowell would be very angry at the blurring of society and state in Helen's analysis.
I think we are all very naive about the devisive effect of unregulated credit when the currency is supported by a fractional reserve that is next to pointless.
People in the lowest paid jobs have had their wealth taken off them by allowing the central reserve bank (an NGO corporation) to print currency to pay for rhings that peopke cannot afford.
We are spending our grandchildren's inheritance.
If you're talking about the U.S. Federal Reserve, it's certainly not an NGO. It was created by an act of Congress. It's board is appointed by Congress. It is the main Federal Regulator of banks. All of the "profits" of the Federal Reserve go to the U.S. Treasury. In fact, until last year the FED has been the largest single contributor to the U.S. Treasury. In the range of $60-$117 billion per year over the last decade. BTW, the FED does NOT "print currency". That is done exclusively by Treasury Department's Bureau of Engraving and Printing.
@@johnchappell4492 and it is privately owned....
czcams.com/video/vZjSXS2NdS0/video.html
Wow loving this. Helen seems to be comparing all the fascinating contradictions within liberalism and its extrapolative venn diagram. This kind of placing of oneself within a larger conversation is wonderful and too rare when exploring conflicting ideas! she suggested the innateness of beliefs/principles - the more we can appreciate this idea, the more we can put down all the identity armour we seem to wear during conversations.
Love Helen!❤
anyone whos played that Helldivers 2 game wouldn't think Liberalism's last stand was represented by a morbidly obese woman without kids who haven't read any of the original liberal authors.
But its probably more fitting than we realize at this time
It’s honestly n incredible testament to liberalism. We will look back on these times with find memories
@@OwenHooper-mv4fm It cant be healthy, It feels ridiculous to live through.
the most random and absurd thing can become the headline and center for conversation all over society, while things that you think should be, aren't even whispered about.
But you're probably right, I'll miss it at least
Um, she has a daughter.
Helan is a monster 😍😍😍😍🥰🥰🥰
26:55 As long as nobody is imposing on other groups we can live with each other? Unfortunately, the chosen people always seem to demand special treatment under the law. You will go to jail for even questioning their version of history in most countries in Europe, and Congress just passed similar legislation in the United States.
Looking forward to watching this, I've been following Helen Pluckrose's work for quite a while. I lean much further to the Right than her, but I think she has an admirable approach to social justice theory.
Helen Pluckrose!! ❤
She's great.
It occurs to me that there is a phrase Benjamin was not using which unites the American and British spirits - Anglo-Saxon.
Those German guys?
@@johnchappell4492 The Anglosphere.
@@djolds1 That's better...
How is her friendship with Mr. Lindsay going?
I think when all Americans subconsciously adopted the same Mid-Atlantic non-accent, was around the same time that total groupthink started. Coincidence, asks the linguist? Research grant application denied, responds the committee.
Jews
Yeah, it's sad seeing all the regional accents disappear. Some of them are so nice to listen to.
@@stevem815 I recall Benjamin is from Cali, but I swear he and Leslie kinda have the Northwest as described by Fred Armisen: 'in Seattle, they present the words to you...on a plate...and pronounce. Every. Letter. Of. The. Word'.
@@stevem815 In so much as thick New Jersey still exists here, the letter "w" gets interjected everywhere. 'Auwthwentic New Jwersey towmatoes'.
I'm from Minnesota and nobody can tell where I'm from. Lived in multiple places, I really don't hear an accent in anybody under 60 with exception to small towns in the deep south or Maine. People in Maine occasionally were hard to understand.
Great interview!
I can enjoy the live chat in real time today...🙂
[gives 🏆to clones, so they can bring to Ms.🍎the next time she summons them💜]
@@NinjaKittyBonksSo, you rigged the trophy? Bad kitty.
@@helenablavatsky9136 ... A kitty has to do what a Kitty has to do for Puttanesca 😼
Bless you darling lady
Helen is awesome!
Ben, I know you're an internet public person.
So online is as far as it goes. I'd be interested in a little bit of advice on finding someone in your life. Or maybe a podcast gently mentioning such advice or saying but with boundaries. You were an older person in life. And you are in a marriage and having your life. Respect. I'm an older gentleman around your age. It's not your wheelhouse. Honestly I'm just chucking this out there just because.
Ben, your podcast is good. It's been good for a very long time. Respect
This isn't a dating website lol
@gulanhem9495 to be fair, I did find my wife through youtube…
So liberalism turns into conservative values… yes we all start out wanting free pizza. And grow to understand that pizza must be farmed.
Wow! A flat for 26k!!
definitely try to have her again. :)
Definitely!!
28:50 what happens in a recession. I used a well researched essay from James Lindsay's New Discourses website to demonstrate to my employer the effects of diversity in an organisation that was rapidly expanding and conversely one that was contracting.
I remember the research suggesting more culturally homogenous organisations were able to continue working cooperatively during downsizing than organisations that had emphasised employing people from racially and culturally diverse backgrounds.
I got the impression it was to do with being more accepting of and employing similar coping mechanisms when confeonting stress when you aren't also required to make allowances for the special needs of people in out groups.
This makes me suspect rhe coming economic depression is going to be a bumpy ride for people without extended families and other cultural-social support networks.
Týr is also a dope metal band who write music about Norse mythology
I hope she's actually bothered to read the intellectual foundations of Liberalism by now and no longer thinks it just means "being nice to people within my preferred boundaries."
It was weak sauce when she had to admit publicly to Carl Benjamin she hadn't read Locke
From the way Carl talks about him it appears he hasn't either
@@electricelephant7471No he clearly has because he's rejected it as the trash that it is.
@@CigEconomy Carl can't even distinguish between liberal equality andcequity despite Locke making it very clearcwhat he means by equality.
@@electricelephant7471 It's an absolutely meaningless distinction because it ends up being the exact same thing in practice. Liberalism is as much of a fairytale as communism.
Haven't seen Helen in a long time, since TR's podcast; haven't listened to this yet, but I do wonder what kind of falling out did James and Helen have? James still sounds like he likes and respects Helen, but just doesn't agree with some points; what are those points?
Ben, in case you weren't paying attention the bio for *M a c k l e m o r e* says that he is Evergreen St alumni 2009...
get on it, sir PRONTO and godspeed
I lost what little respect I had for her, after her hysterics with Sargon over Liberalism. She completely staw-manned him and deliberately misquoted him in a way that made his argument look ridiculous (when she could have easily quote-tweeted or cut-and-pasted what he actually said verbatim, because it was right there above her reply). She then proceeded to make a complete fool of herself (due to her lack of knowledge on the topic that was being discussed) and threw a hissy fit when people called her out for her dishonest approach.
I am SO done with people like this.
Yeah I didn’t follow that whole episode closely but I was aware that of the 3 OG based professors, Pluckrose was the one that lost her way pretty badly.
She debated Sargon? On his channel, or on his website? I want to go check that out...
@zxyatiywariii8 it was all on twitter
I truly hope you are never held to the same standard, being wholly dismissed because of a singular internet squabble on a platform known for misunderstandings caused by unnecessarily restrictive character counts which limits how clear and expressive one can be.
I agree with Carl on a lot of things, but I have seen him on several occasions completely fail to express in a tweet what he actually means to say and then engage in twitter spats because people disagree with the horribly unclear thing he said. Carl seems to get into a mode sometimes with huffing his own make for too long with his lotus eater crew, using words and meanings in ways that are outside of common parlance and then is confused and angry when people don't know what he's on about on twitter. I think he had such an issue with James Lindsay as well. Does this mean we should lose all respect for Carl? For James? For Helen? For JimpZee? I'd argue that's an absurd thing to because WHO THE HELL CARES OR GIVES CREDENCE TO TWITTER SPATS, for fucks sake... again I truly hope you are never held to the same unrealistic standard that everything good and redeemable about you is tossed out for your lowest moments, I bet you wound't fair as well as Helen.
@@HalfMonty11 yeah James Lindsey hasn’t looked too hot interacting with Carl either. Carl apparently has a way of making these people look foolish. Good on Peter for not being so dumb.
I am more concerned with maximizing liberalism than I am with “securing democracy.”
One has to recognize the fact that at least in western Europe we already live in a kind of semi-socialism . But the problem is that this system in its current state may not be sustainable given the enourmous open and hidden depts of the states and their social security systems. And ever increasing taxation etc. may very well undermine the whole construct, not least because of the economic decline due to green policies and the ensuing lack of economic growth.
Why Liberalism Failed by Patrick Deneen, an excellent book
Until the extent to which occultists are affecting things is better understood by a lot more people, geopolitics cannot itself be very well-understood. Similarly, the international calamities will continue, largely unabated and unanticipated by the vast majority of us.
Yes, it really surprises me that more important voices are either unaware or don't take it seriously enough. It gets tossed into wu or conspiracy land, not realizing that dark occult belief systems are foundational for secret societies of which pur leadership classes come from. We need to be honest about what we're dealing with.
It isn't just a ridiculous notion.
Mixing wokism and Islam is like bleach and ammonia
Ilhan Omar
Explain for the chemically illiterate, please?
@@Ajax-wo3gt Mixing bleach and ammonia creates a deadly poison gas.
@@Ajax-wo3gt - Mixing bleach & ammonia produces a very deadly gas.
@@Ajax-wo3gt The admixture forms chloramine - a rather noxious and potentially toxic vapor.
Used to clean pools and drinking water in lower concentration, but not far from WW1 mustard gas in high concentration.
It's easy stumble upon by accident if one is attempting to, for example, treat mold or mildew and fails to read a label carefully.
Can I ask a genuine question?
The 'old-school' left who are now complaining about the annulling of their speech rights were and still are more than happy to annul other's property rights via taxation and such.
And it's hard to fail to notice that those complaining about the abolition of their speech rights are those who make a living through speech, or whose self-image (identity, no less) is bound up in their use of the written and spoken word.
To put it bluntly, if it's okay to redistribute wealth through the confiscation of property, why is it not also okay to redistribute equity through the confiscation of speech?
Excuse me , what exactly do you mean ?
39:57 impulses prob designed to help us detect & react to enemies who openly reveal themselves
How did she get involved with PB and JL on the grievance studies affair project?
Helen is an international treasure. Mankind owes you a great debt for reading that sanctimonious impenetrable nonsense and translating it. ❤ The postmodern Rosetta Stone.
There is essentially zero chance of the dollar collapsing. With that caveat, I gotta say this whole episode is pretty much pure gold so far, especially starting around 15-20 min.
US dollar could collapse, but maybe not for 5, 10, 50 years or so, because of Eurodollar debt. If you haven't already, see Brent Johnson and his Milkshake Theory of the US Dollar. Or Jeff Snider on how the Eurodollar works. Both guys have casts on youtube.
I don't think a collapse is the concern, so much as never-ending inflation
@@shaft9000 The kind of inflation we're gonna experience, is comparable to the period right after you take out a bank loan, before you use it to start a successful business.
I find it hard to believe that any accent is voted worse than a Brummie accent!
Moments of receptivity and inspiration, sounds EXACTLY like theta waves, especially when synchronized, that's good for you.
Edit: you can deliberately prompt that state. I introduce you, to neuroscience.
Good music is probably just _that,_ no?
@@shaft9000 Music hits a lotta frequencies, and frequently does so.
Has she read her Locke yet?
Helen's solution about housing fails to understand:
A. Where "sink* estates came from (poor quality housing 'projects' fostering intergenerational unemployment and welfare dependancy) and
B. Why it has become normalised and acceptable for housing to cost 30times the median wage.
Massive production of housing will merely create social and maintenance problems for decades to come.
The deregulation of credit by Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan in the 1980s, combined with the realisation that public healthcare and state pensions were unaffordable without mass immigration of poorly paid workers.
More credit regulation to put the lid on people's ability and expectation they can ask ever higher prices, throttling foreign "investment" in housing by dirty money from the Soviet Union and China would also be required.
Thanks. I drifted away a little bit because I'm leaning a bit towards the feminist side but Helen's still one of my favourite voices out there. She's brilliant and obviously gives a lot of herself.
Why are the beginnings of ur interviews so awkward😅 loved the rest tho
Because I’m recording from the moment the call starts, and I like the gradual warming up into the conversation, proper. It wards off clickbait type viewership, and shows the weirdness in human connection.
@@BenjaminABoyce oh okay that’s fair
Doesn't Brumie accent score lowest?!
sounds like jamie olivers accent?
He is also from Essex
Wai-wai-wai-wai-wait…
Am I to understand that diversity includes people who are different from me?
omg I'm so excited for this!
This will be good! So impressed with the work she, James and Peter did those those number of years ago, so she needs her props 🐈
.
PS> 🏆for The Kitty 😸
We all have the same number of ancestors even though humanity has twice as many mothers as fathers
The problem, however, is that the ideal of Human Dignity is incompatible with a belief in Evolution.
Reified postmodernism was the exact thing, 2010 was the exact year, and Helen's field was the exact ground zero.
Very good episode, thanks Helen and Benjamin.
Yeah, uh, no. She does not understand what Liberalism means (a VERY common flaw in intellectuals these days). But OK, par for the course, I suppose.
Please no more DEI training! It is a waste of time and is pitting people against each other. Please leave the workplace alone. Enough of ideological, political agendas. Also, remove it from schools. I am tired of having these ideas crammed down my throat and told I am bigoted if I don't agree.
Helen would be a top candidate to always co-host this show.
My son met someone new recently. The first time coming to visit, he tells me "they will be here". I said, who all is coming? He said, no, it's just one person, I'm being respectful. I said, oh, it's a trans person. He says no. She's a woman. She doesn't require the pronoun. He just thinks he has to refer to Everyone in this manner. Sooo confusing
That's just normal speech. Are sure you're not the one applying inherent pronoun nonsense.
*No one* has pronouns, they're a referential linguistic construct. There's also not just the second person pronouns, there's I, we, you, us, etc.
A singular person is still a countable group.
The spoken dialect usage of "they" singular along with the possessive "their" and "theirs" has no connection with the imposing pronoun abuse or any ideological components, forming on it's own. Are you not American? Or is English not your first language?
@@HimmelsDaemon No. He made it clear that he was not applying the pronoun "she" to her to respect her. Despite the fact that she is a woman who does not bother with telling people "her pronouns". His sentence structure only made sense if more than one person was coming over. That's why I asked if more people were coming. It was a whole conversation that perhaps isn't conveyed by my brief comment.
@@HimmelsDaemonThat is not standard English.
Helen is a wonderful lady. She has been treated shittily by many people and she doesn't deserve it. I'm so glad she's doing better.
That thumbnail is doing some heavy lifting.
It is the last stand, because it is dead. Move on.
Are you prepared to give up your feminism? Because that’s where that set of ideas comes from as well.
we’re still hanging in there
Not a feminist. Nowhere near being a feminist. Feminism is poison.
Jules's latest proposed, non-insane political spectrum...
left: "small l" libertarian
center-left: liberal libertarian
center-right: liberal conservative
right: "small c" conservative
*all more/less mutually inclusive.
Thank you
Like many of those who had ALWAYS aligned themselves with the ‘left’, she simply alighted her progressive train at Woke Central. No amount of academically defining the various flavours of ‘Liberalism’ can resurrect the mass of Chesterton Fences strewn across our beautiful British landscape. Progress should only ever be onwards AND upwards. The limited perspective of the atheist liberal - we’re so beyond this.
And no, I don’t HATE Helen.
liberalism has failed. time to move on.
Your mother failed!
It only failed because it was too naive and failed to recognize its enemies.
@@HeortirtheWoodwarden there's more reasons than that,
To what?
@@HellCatt0770 exactly, thats the problem, what else is there?
Helen will always have my undying respect.
Unlike the Catholics here...
Force of nature
People like Helen are the problem. Yesterday's revolutionary. She was fine with the revolution until it discarded her, she wants to return to before that, thats all. She hasn't reflected on her beliefs or considered how we got here, and it shows because she is incredibly inconsistent in regards to her beliefs and values. She sounds completely lost, fundamentally doesn't understand where we are today or how we got here and just endlessly repeating 90s dogma. This conversation has no value other than as a warning.
Ps. Having now listened to the latter part of the video, Helen sounds completely broken, and I feel for her. She sounds as if she hasn't actually recovered from her ill health and that is why she is such a mess. Perhaps the person she needs to look after most is herself.
you are absolutely sure you are not confusing revolution with counter revolution?
Helen you voted for Biden. Can't take you serious again.
Helen is British, not American.
@@John-Brown in an interview she mentioned her vote was for Biden, just before the 2020 election.