The Biggest Lie You Believe About Pokemon
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2021
- Theres a pervasive lie when it comes to Pokemon that I'm here to debunk
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When people bring up Sejun’s Pachirisu as a “people should win with their favorites!” argument, they’re missing the reality that Pachirisu was not chosen by Sejun because it was one of his favorites, it was chosen because there was a very specific role Sejun needed filled on his team and Pachirisu was one of the only Pokemon able to fill it. Pachirisu became one of Sejun’s favorites AFTER the success of that team.
If anything mega gyarados is sejun's favorite smh. No love for mega gyarados
Yes, Wolfey covered this topic very well in a video earlier this year I believe. Great breakdown.
Sirocco Yeah I got this info from Wolfe’s video on the topic + an interview with Sejun I remember hearing from around the time it happened, but I don’t remember where it was from (either way it was probably also used as a source for that video anyway).
EXACTLY. What Wolfe says about the ebb and flow of the meta applies here, too: in the post-Finals interview, Sejun said he picked Pachirisu over Amoonguss to provide redirection, since people started to run Safety Goggles and Grass-types to counter Rage Powder and Spore.
Honestly, I wish people realized that finding some niche use or unique role can end up making some Pokemons your favorites. I found a lot of my favorites after using them rather than just pure aesthetics alone. I think about how I used to play a ton of random battles on Showdown and I ended up finding favorites because I used them in battle. Pokemons like Florges, Stakataka, Araquanid. and Sigilyph are all some pokemon that I never found particularly interesting or considered a favorite until I used them in battle, either through random battles or looking for a specific role.
This is the best Pokemon video I've seen in a long time
Your videos are proof that (almost) every Pokémon has its place
Pog
Epic comment epic channel love you guys
Big compliment from one of the best pokemon channels on the platform.
Hello, it is I, the yt Pokémon commenter
I think what people actually mean when they say, “Everyone should use their favorites!” is “My favorite Pokémon isn't viable in the meta, so I can't have fun in VGC!”
As someone whose first favorite Pokemon is Togedemaru (despite having one of the most resistances in the game), I can relate to the second sentence.
(My second favorite is Ampharos, still not viable and not even available in SwSh)
They can do what I did and wait a couple decades for Weezing to be viable.
@@sapremia They can also do what I did and wait decades for Raichu to be… PU again!
Raichu has been viable in VGC on multiple occasions though.
@@ryane5281 pretty sure the only reason raichu was useful was due to primal kyogre tho, since it can redirect thunder from other kyogres and provides fake out and helping hand at the same time. But maybe it will be used in VGC in the future when another overpowered water type is released
I like how Wolfey completely ignored the fact that if someone 'just used their favorites' they would likely not get past quarterfinals. No matter how much you love Ariados, no Ariados team is gonna win. Some pokemon are just strictly better than others
that really shouldnt be the case but is unfortunately, which is why while i love watching vgc i'd never try it. A little part of 10 yr old me would fade if faced with that reality, for me all pokemon are still equal and always will be
Ariados has a useful niche in singles if you try hard enough
@@afifmajid8754 Well to be fair not all Pokémon are everyone's favourites. Just like how not all are equal y'know. In OU and stuff, the meta, you may still find some favourites
@@afifmajid8754 Even if stat distribution was even across the board some pokemon would still be strictly better. Type matchups are simply too good to ignore, the bug type sucks for a reason.
Thats not his point. His point is there is more than just species of a pokemon.
“I don’t want to see another Smeargle ever again.”
Wolfe: no, no. He’s got a point.
"He's out of line but he's right."
Smeargle is the embodiment of having too much creativity
@@fishyfishyfishy500akabs8 so he's the embodiment of Engineer gaming?
They hated him for he spoke the truth.
@@theorangeman9147 Engineer gaming
wolfey: Pause the video... what do you think happened?
me: uhhh... Corsola won the tournament...
Naw corsola lost
nah it was a tie
N o it was a
You sir are a genius 🤣
" Hey Corsola, did you win the tournament? "
Corsola: uhh....
people also forget that "people's favourites" typically have their roles fulfilled significantly better by "meta" pokemon, which would make using their favourites akin to shooting themselves in the foot. there may be pokemon that have potential to revolutionize the meta, and i'm not saying you shouldn't try new things (as a lack of trying to think outside the box with off-meta pokemon causes less change and will eventually bring a game to a slow, dreadful stop), but there aren't a lot of pokemon that can be meta defining, or relevant in general.
but doesnt that go against the very principle of pokemon, that any pokemon can be strong if trained correctly, eh maybe its more of an in game thing than vgc format, for what its worth for sth as silly as a pokemon competition i'd rather play with my favs than go for the win, but I totally respect those that do, that takes way more skill than just choosing the ones I think look better, or derpier in my case
Even if that’s a principle of the culture of Pokémon, that’s obviously not how the game was designed, what the literal laws of the game reflect.
@@jadeninja9jadeninja9 which is kind of an issue for why VGC or competitive is so weak, cuz not alot of new players will ever bother. Mind you Pokemon is the biggest IP in the world and its competitive scene is irrelevant in mainstream video game discussion.
It's not an issue if your potentially favourite pokemon gets outperformed a bit by another but it was still close and fun. But reality is your favourite pokemon is trash and at best fits into a very specific narrow build as some gimmick.
@@jadeninja9jadeninja9 i wouldn't necessarily relate the, "any pokemon can be good" law to something like top-level play, but i get what you mean. but the sad reality is, in top level play, you will never see people's "favourites", because a lot of favourite" kinda suck, and get out-performed. even if a top player decided to use a team of their favourites, they would immediately be out-performed by literally everybody else(who uses "good" pokemon), and never see the light of day in higher rankings. you're not seeing an influx of "good" pokemon because everybody uses the "same thing", you're seeing an influx of good pokemon because the people who "use their favourites" get out-placed.
If that's the case then gimme the gun and send me on a triathlon because I'm winning the World Championships with Eevee God damnit.
I’ll be honest Wolfey, I was one of those people. I’ve always bitched about centralized metas. I didn’t know about the thunderous thing or most of your examples.
I think I get it now. It’s not about trying to go around the entirety of the game to find some secret formula for success, it’s adapting to an environment that is constantly growing and changing around you.
Thanks man
The good ending
Holy shit a rational take what the fuck
We need more people like you who are willing to change their opinion when given new information. :)
Character development moment
@Grunt Gaming a major turn of events, better than what any story has to offer
"Everyone uses the same pokemon"
Spinda: all of us are built different mere mortals..
@AAMIR HAQ please explain?; this seems so layered and good 🥺
@@GrandLufaine spinda is a Pokémon with hundreds of spot variety so the comment is saying every spinda is unique
@@dmodk8010 Actually about 4 million variations
@@UncleJrueForTue I already know that there are 4 million variety. Yet, it still blows my mind everytime I hear it. Lol
@@UncleJrueForTue 8.5 billions*
"I miss when Legendaries weren't used"
Zapdos in Gen 1, Suicune in Gen 2, Jirachi in Gen 3 and Heatran in Gen 4: Hello
Mewtwo in gen 1
@@Mr.Slinky mewtwo was one of 2 pokemon that were banned
I think legendaries are fine, just not the op ones ofc. Think it’s cool they’re with the rest
Zapdos in gen 2, also.
@@poliorice3600 im curious, what was the other pokemon that was banned?
"you should battle with you favorite Pokemon!!!"
good thing my favorite Pokemon is Landorus-T
Love that people think Se Jun Park just slapped Pachirisu on his team because he liked it. It served an extremely specific purpose on his team - keeping Electric moves away from Talonflame and Gyarados. Unlike Amoongus, it barely cared about Taunt since it still had Super Fang and Nuzzle. Se Jun wasn't the only person to get good results with it - there was another player called Angel Miranda (sorry if wrong spelling) who ran one with Ion Deluge to ruin Mega Kangaskhan and give his Hydreigon an Electric Hyper Beam to KO Azumarill (source: False Swipe Gaming).
if they think its stale now, just wait for the 1 billion lions meta
Now we can all simultaneously agree thats a lot of lions
The what?
@@Pr1est0fDoom the 1 billion lion meta. Duh.
@@Pr1est0fDoom a stupid memes starting from the 1 billion lion vs the sun
then they turn into vs pokemon (beside legendary)
@@leonshirogane5541 It wasn't besides legendary. That was an addendum later because people realized how OP it would be with the legendaries. And even without them the Pokemon are still OP as hell and beat the 1 billion lions. So you really gotta start doing what Game Freak themselves are doing and banning nat dex.
I would like to add that in 2012, 1 year after rizzo won with thundurus, he did not use it and beat wolfe who was using support thundurus
“I made it, I know how to destroy it!”
God that's cool
Totally based. What a god
No wonder he didn't talk about that lol
People when competitive players use good pokémon so they can win: 🤯
"People should use their favorites pokemon" Ok my favourites pokemon are incineroar landorus and amoongus, what should I do?
I don't play competitively, but Xerneas and Kyogre are legit two of my top favourites. I'm very happy to see them in the spotlight. On the other hand, I'm okay with not seeing Zigzagoon who I'd put as my favorite even above those two in competitive scenes.
Weakness policy incineroar with power trip
But you need a light screen and reflect
"This is not what pokemon battles used to be, I mean using legendaries"
*Meanwhile the games give you the box legendary before the elite 4*
I actually love the way the box legendaries were used in BW. Framing it as a battle of the chosen and having N use the opposite legendary. Truly an epic moment.
@@AlbRomano and in gen 7, as you watched it grow up from a Cosmog.
And if you didn't name it "Nebby", I'd be very surprised.
exactly, and most people also used these pokemon on their elite 4 team
@@pokedude720 My nuzlocke nicknaming sense leads me to name them based on what they are inspired from: Lillipup will forever be named "Dog". Love it.
I haven't played gen 7, but I'm sure I wouldn't call my cosmog "Nebby". Perhaps years ago.
@@AlbRomano what would you call it tho? space dust?
I remember playing at a local in the late stage of Gen 3, maybe a month before Gen 4 came out.
Everyone was playing Agility, Meteor Mash, Clearbody Metagross.
There was one guy who play a full Defense/HP invested Steelix and won the finals 6:0 cause noone brought anything against this physical behemoth. The only time he lost his Steelix was vs another guy who played full Sp. Atk. Init Charcoal Overheat Camerupt.
Good times.
that sounds hilarious, something so stupid an unexpected like running torment to turn off Darmanitan-G in an environment where people normally don't
Just fyi clear body was metagross' only ability before gen 5 so it isn't a surprise every metagross is using it
And then in Wolfy's PLA tournament, HopCat brought an Max Defense/HP, Eviolite Hisuain Qwilfish that ate a supereffective offensive Garchomp Earthquake.
Blaming who uses legendaries is the same thing as blaming a chess player for "only using the queen instead of showing that you're badass by using only pawns"
To be honest I feel like the whole draw of Pokémon and an active competitive meta just kinda clash against each other. There are so many Pokémon and many of them are just bad.
It’s not like a fighting game where characters can be balanced to be “better” or “worse”, because there’s such a massive roster and not everything can be good. Most of the time casual spectators want to see variety because that’s what Pokémon is about. It doesn’t help that every aspect of the franchise is about friendship and using the Pokémon you like, etc.
In conclusion, this is unavoidable tbh.
I might be wrong, I’m just a casual Pokémon fan.
this isn't a pokemon problem, this is a competitive video game problem
games that have diverse characters will inevitably draw fans to any one of them
I think one of the best solutions would honestly be to have constantly-changing banned/allowed sets, so nobody has time to build a meta.
@@IsomerMashups that doesn’t solve anything at all. There will always be a meta to any competitive scene in a game. People will always find whatever is the best regardless of whatever restrictions are put in place (remember the Corsola Cup?). Plus, a constantly changing banlist is unhealthy for a game like Pokémon. In Yugioh’s TCG, it makes sense why there’s a constantly changing banlist because there’s a constant stream of new cards, archetypes, combinations, etc. to keep things fresh. However, if such a system is implemented in Pokémon, it would make competitive extremely volatile and it would only lead into a downward spiral. Landorous-T gets banned? Okay, then another Pokémon with an equal or similar niche will take its place, then that Pokémon gets complained about and put on blast, then that Pokémon gets banned, and so on and so forth. It simply wouldn’t work. Plus, if people really want to see or play their favorites in a competitive setting, there’s a reason why the Smogon Tiers exist.
I think that can actually be done if they make the total stat differences between pokemon less drastic (unless something has OP ability, moves, or some kind of combination that makes sense for them to be nerved with stat cut), then more will have to rely on the pokemons movesets, abilities and items. That will allow a lot more pokemons to shine imo, Less focus on numbers and more on the interactions.
counterpoint: landorus is ugly and everyone who can bear seeing it on their screens is a much stronger man than i am
I have to agree I guess that explains why it has the “intimidate” ability
no he's not
I think he's really cool
Landorus ain’t ugly
They hated Jesus because he spoke the truth
People talk about pachirisu like it was there just for show, when it was an actual godlike meta call that other players were already experimenting
I definitely don't think players are uncreative by bringing similar pokemon, but as a view and especially as a less competitive (and skilled lmao) player, it sucks that so many pokemon that I've grown to love over the years feel completely invalid 99% of the time. I'll still try to make them work cause I care less about being highly competitive than just having a good time, but it still sucks that I can't do both.
That said I super appreciate Smogon for giving me the chance to try out completely different formats with completely different pokemon. I just wish there were more officially supported formats like that.
The existence of tiered play on stuff like Smogon really helps make the game alot more entertaining.
i respect this video, it manages to both disprove and prove the point.
yes, there is a lot of creativity despite the lack of pokemon variety.
but also the fact that those few top pokemon perform better with 50 different sets than 80% of pokemon do with ANY set, is a major turn-off for many.
Which point are you referring to? Wolfe did prove his point that pokemon is more complex than just selecting pokemon, and that's what the video focused on.
Of course, people don't have to like that their favorite pokemon isn't viable. That's not the point of tournaments though, especially the top tournament of the year for the most competitive format in a game or sport
@@leftdoor2328 the point is that its not just as simple as picking lnadorus and thats it, Landorus has like 30 different viable sets, thats variety right. but that also tells you that landorus has 30 different sets that are better than most other pokemon, thats not variety.
so there is variety, just not the sort of variety people are actually interested in.
Absolutly agreed, wolfey is too close in the matter so he will not or can not understand that the same pokemon with different sats/moves is still the same pokemon for the normal viewer. So he makes a long video about the details, but that details are either not important for these viewers or not known.
so like a lot of competitive games ever
The lack of diversity on the competitive scenatio say way more about the state of the game than the players creativity..
"Ow, no one uses their favourites!"
All Unown team on low ladder: Bonjour
Dang, if only Bonjour wasn't a 7 letter word, you could actually do that with Unown...
@@halyoalex8942 F Moment, try to translate to a language where it uses 6 letters lmao
15:41 this guy is a clown
@Honglin Xue lmao
Me using an all rotom team in AG :
13:25 "It's extremely likely that Thundurus was a driving factor...... .... ...as was Aaron Zheng"
*Aaron stares into your soul*
I think part of why casual players can't really see the variety of builds a single Pokemon species can have is because the games themselves have historically done a godawful job of communicating ideas like EVs and IVs to casual players. As such unless a player invests some significant time into out of game research, they're not going to really think you can build a Pokemon to perform outside of its most obvious role.
Keeping all that hidden keeps the game accessible to casual players though. It kept us from getting overloaded and confused when picking up a game because we knew it had cool critters.
Hmm, maybe its just boring to see the same 15 Pokemon all over again ? I know you have to take the best Mons to get through a Championchip, where you want to win and cant change your team. So your Team needs to check nearly every viable option your may facing. But sorry different movesets and spreads cant justify the lack of variety. Its not okay to say "look, that Lando has a different Moveset and so its fine that Gamefreak dont provide new and more valid options, to keep the competitive scene interesting." And blaming casuals for calling something boring, where only pros can see a difference, is also not okay. I recently saw the 2022 VGC with Zacian, Groudon, Kyogre and Calyrex-S going brrrzz and guess what ? After the 10th Battle i stopped watching. Even as a non casual player, it felt really boring and i cant remember a single match. 2020 VGC was way way way more interesting in my opinion.
@@Dacore_DE then just go play with and watch people using smogon tiers. you get to pick exactly what little pokemon you adore and see it used against those its viable against, theres even little cup if you wanna use first stage and baby pokemon. But the top level players choosing a ledian over a landorus or whatever cause its their favorite and unique would be like a NBA player showing up to a game in timberland boots cause its what he likes the most on the street lol. theres times and places for preference and theres a time and place for optimization
Maybe have an NPC explain it in the daycare? That makes enough sense because of important breeding is to competitive. Most casual players probably aren't breeding that many pokemon, so they won't be too ovwrwhelmed.
While I do get what you're saying, and that I understand that objectively, there's a lot more depth to a team more than just the species used, as a casual spectator of VGC events I can't really see the depth of a team in the same way. For this reason, I prefer to spectate restricted formats, because they usually give an opportunity to see species you don't commonly see in VGC. Take Lando-T for example -- there's a lot of ways you can tweak and refine a set for it, but at the end of the day it's still a Lando-T. Seeing it pop up in so many VGC formats can make them feel very samey to me, even if technically they all use completely different sets.
I would never say things like VGC players being lame for using what they use though -- they're playing to win, and why would you intentionally handicap yourself? Rather, I'd prefer VGC formats to have ways to ensure variety in species -- either by restricted formats, rotating banlists based on usage the previous format, or whatever they can come up with.
True. It's mainly why I play doubles OU now mainly even though I like the 6 pokemon pick 4 to fight imo smogon doubles does a way better job at ensuring cool strategies and species are still somewhat viable. Like recently I reached 1500 in the ladder with a round team with psychic seed accelgor and throat spray indeedee male along with support jynx with fake out and lovely kiss taunt and many other support options I've tried, and I had a scarf pelliper with life orb primarina with a charjabug holding macho brace in the back to cover trick room matchups. Currently and in other restricted formats strategies like these pretty much are never gonna win because of the op legends or the meta in vgc is too harsh. I like doubles ou better rn but I'll give vgc a go after the restricted format goes away
"Remember when they didn't used to use legendaries?"
*glances at Zapdos in gen 1, Raikou and Suicune in gen 2*
"Sure Jan"
Yah i hate that when i love some the ledgarys
For crying out loud, SkarBliss was more threatening than any legendary in the generation.
Also acting like it wasn't a time honored tradition to stomp your friends who didn't even know that Mewtwo existed
Lmao when in generation 1 they didn't use Moltres and Articuno because the normal pokemon were way much better
Damn bro I was supporting corsola but corsola took the win pretty entertaining
No, how can you say that! Corsola was the MVP, obviously!
@@darnok6407 not sure about that since Corsola defnitely clutch it with finesse making it a contender for mvp
@@benja9029 But corsola, on the other hand, is definitely a contender for MVP
damn that clutch corsola 1v1 was so epic
Why does no one talk about corsola, it carried ;-;
Fun story for y'all:
When I first started playing conpetitive, the thing that has always made me think some metas were centralized was, as you might expect, the lack of species diversity and thus I would almost always use teams built around outclassed pokemon that I liked, to try and bring my own creativity into battle. This has continued for years since midway through XY and it led me to VGC 2020 series 5 and current SwSh OU
It was only relatively recently (june 2019 iirc) that I came to know about Wolfe, as I didn't care much about tournaments and top players, but I enjoyed watching him and so I did. Then the day came when I saw his Glaceon video and decided I'd do the same thing, but with a different approach: a Tailwind-based, all-out offensive, Glaceon team, featuring Alolan Ninetales, Indeedee, Talonflame, Lycanroc Dusk and Milotic, as well as Glaceon. It was a very fun team, I tried it on Showdown and in the games themselves, but, because of my nature, I decided that I wasn't done with just doubles and I joined the OU base
Things haven't changed much for my "competitive career" since then. I now use Leafeon on my OU team and, because I like exploring random bad stuff, it's MIXED Leafeon, but what has changed is the way I think of metagames. My experience with what some people call "heat" and some others call "bad" competitive pokemon and sets is that if you really want to play with your favourites, you need to acknowledge the fact that you are at the same time willing to put yourself at a disadvantage many times, because there are other pokemon objectively better than others that actually do have a role in the metagame and you can't change that. A lot of people in OU use Landorus-T and it's understandable because it's very good in the context of the OU meta. Landorus, however, has different sets. Heatran has different sets. There are some times when pokemon don't have multiple sets but their teammates may vary
The point I want to make? If you want to use your favourites, use them. Everyone uses what they want to use. Metas become not creative only when they not only lack species diversity, but also set diversity and strategy diversity
Also most people forget that the Tier a Pokémon is in (OU, UU, RU...), isn't always what determines how good it is. Many great Pokémon are in RU and below because the higher tier's metagame is full of Pokemon that can deal with it offensively or defensively. But if you find a niche for it, you can make that Pokémon work. Thus why Quagsire has always had niches in OU and even Ubers even while it's always been a low-tier Pokémon.
@@HannibalKantter exactly. Smogon tiers are based on usage after all and the idea that “If this Pokémon is good, many people will use it”. This is true to a certain extent, but not completely, of course. This division produces quite the odd sights in higher tiers and it’s kinda fascinating for me
@@fabrizioorpianesi6670 Yep. Take Kyurem, for example. He has been in RU for basically all of Gen 8, and now it's in Ubers. It went from being really bad in OU to being too strong for it, just because of how the metagame shifts. Competitive Pokémon might seem like a stall and unwaving game, but it's really crazy how some Pokémon can raise or lower in usage enough to raise or drop a tier or two in a single month
finally, an internet discussion that is not only civil, but has both parties having fun
@@HannibalKantter I think an even funnier example of this is Arctozolt and its competitive journey. The guy went from zero to hero after Slush Rush was released and it’s kinda funny to see it in UUBL at times, especially knowing how it was NU or PU at some point in the singles metagame. That is the power of meta evolution and I love to see this kind of things
For some people the meta is bad because “ThE sAmE pOkÉmOn aRe aLwAyS uSeD tHerE iS nO vArIeTy oR cHaNgEs” and I think these people have either not played the game to the fullest or just saw a couple tournament tops and decided the meta is stale. I partially agree with this statement for certain metagames: there are some Pokémon that are incredibly polarizing like Landorus-T in OU and Incineroar in VGC, that’s one aspect I don’t like about these metagames, but it’s also true that there’s a ton of different strategies that are still viable, niche, but still viable. I think a skilled player must recognize the power of those niche strategies instead of straight up not considering them, but that’s just my personal opinion
This is a reeeeally minor nitpick but, the Ability Capsule specifically can't change to or from Hidden Abilities at all. It's the Ability Patch that does that. I know this because hours of grinding were wasted ages ago :|
The big lie is that Wolfey is actually a lizard
World champion lizarde glick
A lizard wizard?
@@maliciousfry No, he's gex
0:46 “Yeah I really don’t like Wolf’s face either.”
That’s just rude, and besides he has a beautiful face
Yeah I know I got very angry at that because wolfeys got the best face out of a lot of you tubers.
Indeed
LMAO
I don't like when he makes weird faces in the thumbnail
Bu that's with every CZcamsr not specially him
Also, sometimes he is acting nervous when he is playing pokemon and then I am like: 'come on bro, you can do this'
There’s no doubt that a pokemon can be used in multiple different ways, but the problem I have is that they make so many weak pokemon that will never be viable based on their base stats, and I’d like to see some different pokemon be able to be used.
then go play with smogon tiers. you get to pick exactly what little pokemon you adore and use it against those its viable against, theres even little cup if you wanna use first stage and baby pokemon. But the top level players choosing a ledian over a landorus or whatever cause its cuter would be like a NBA player showing up to a game in timberland boots cause its what he likes the most on the street lol, theres times and places for preference and theres a time and place for optimization
in this case I think pokemon’s biggest strength, its ability to make super customizable sets, is also its weakness. if you are running a pokemon that has the ability to run 10 different sets well, it automatically is more competitively viable than a pokemon that has 1 set, because the unpredictability is itself a buff. I’m the type of person that loves to find trash pokemon nobody expects and create a single good moveset, but I will admit that the surprise factor is very easy to see through with a bit of knowledge of pokemon, and my efforts would better be spent making another version of Landorus-Therian if I wanted to win tournaments
"I miss the good ol days when legendaries weren't used as much" My guy... Zapdos is a top threat in RBY OU, legendaries were ALWAYS used.
Cough cough mewtwo.
@@wizzem7890 mewtwo was ubers
yeah theres literally not a format where legendaries aren't good lmao unless its sum smogon lower tier
@@dhruvhosali2416 And even in the lower tiers, some of the legendaries are trash.
And also Mew to a lower extent.
I know smeargle is no longer in the game, but it would be cool to see how a meta would evolve in a smeargle only tournament considering it can learn every move.
With moody the actual moveset strategies wouldnt matter, the one getting the good boosts would win
It would be the funniest thing to watch, but painful for the players rolling the moody dice every turn
@@daveizab4151 there would definitely be a moody ban in this scenario. Like how hp grass was banned for corsola. I just did not consider moody because its banned in singles already.
It would pretty much be very similar to an actual VGC or Smogon match, except with an overall lower power level and everything carrying Fighting coverage
Hell no
Wolfey: "Thanks to ability capsule all pokemon have access to their hidden abilities"
Article which he shown: "Are you sure about that?"
I come back to this video a lot for inspiration for unique Pokémon sets
Wolfey: The ability capsule gives you access to your hidden ability
Ability patch: ...
I'm glad you made this video, hope it helps the community
Me too but the people are stupid
tellement bon de voir HARI ici
you mean wideo
It Is not the comunity that needs help , Is the game that needs help. LOL
@@raphaels33 you missed the point entirely
Love this in depth description of pokemon metagames! I used to be one of these naysayers, but after getting into competitive, primarily watching your videos, I can see how cool this stuff is!
I love how the quote "People should win using their favourites" was first used by the Elite Four *Karen*, and now, people use it to annoy VGC players.
I love that Wolfe can pronounce things however he wants and no one can say shit because theyre not a world champion lol
No one says shit because it's funne
His Cinderacze gets me every time
@@malakimphoros2164 Sinderacci
That is not how saying something about it works.
I now only ever pronounce Gigalith as “Jigalith” because of him
I used to believe this, then started actually playing competitive battles, and of course I find some Pokemon many times, but it's never the same thing, specially in ladder.
Same man, after you start playing you see that with legends or not, there’s always going to be a mon that’s more used, so legends aren’t the problem
@@shadowbone777 My main problem is when those pokes (being legendaries or not) become the "best option" for everyone.
Is there any other poke that can take place Incineroar, for example?
Maybe Alolan Persian or Arcanine, but why do people not use those options? It's like everyone thinks Incineroar is the "best option" for that role (and maybe it is).
Personally, I'd like to see more variety because every pokemon can be built differently, but with centralized meta it's basically the game saying "Do you want change? Then win everything with your different team and get visibility" xD
About legendaries, they are just more likely to have better sets (overall stats, abilities, move pool, etc). It's not like every legendary is a god (we can see the difference between Regieleki and Regidrago usage, for example), but it's just about how legendaries seem to be better than average pokemon, so that "best option" mindset makes more sense.
@@TheMoonestOne but that’s how anything works though, somethings are just better than others. Incineroar’s more used than Arcanine because it can be slapped on teams more often, but there are scenarios where Arcanine would be better, due to better speed.
About centralised metas, you’re right, there’s very little room for flexibility, like most restricted metas, which I personally don’t enjoy much. However I wouldn’t call the incineroar situation as a centralisation, as I would use the term to metas where you have to build your team around a certain mon or build to conter said mon, which isn’t the case for the cat, but was the case for Xerneas, for example.
@@shadowbone777 Oh, ok, I agree.
I just used Incineroar as an example because it was the first non-legendary poke I could think of that is overused, but it surely isn't centralized. I just used to see it a lot and I'm pretty sure it's still really popular because of its kit xD
But I totally agree with you there.
About the Arcanine, though, I can't think of an example of metagame where people used more Arcanine than Incineroar, when both were available. So, honestly, I just think of those said scenarios as too specific, maybe.
@@shadowbone777 Oh, and I said as if Incineroar's presence in meta is centralized, just because it is used a lot. You're right the meta isn't changing around it or anything, but I was considering "centralized meta" with this mindset of "only using the best option", as if there was only one "best option". Probably I'm just not using the word right xD
6:15 did he seriously say jenjar?
"every major competitor is using the exact same Pokemon that is different 'under the hood' compared to its same species competition" is a hard sell when you don't spend thousands of hours in the game tbh
Yeahhhhhh... "Everyone isn't using the same thing! They're using the exact same Pokémon with mostly the exact same moves but sometimes they have one or two different moves based on what part of the meta they expect to see! They're not all the same using the same moves almost all the time! Sometimes they'll do an Earthquake instead of a Full Horsepower!"
Six Pokémon per team. A hundred teams. Six hundred Pokémon? No. Same 12 over and over in different combinations. "Guys, trust me, it's totally creative!"
@@chrismanuel9768 the most important thing for competitive (not just pokemon, but every game)isn't creativity, it's consistency.
I mean using chlorophyll Sunflora is creative,but can it beat teams with primal groudon,kyogre or xerneas and other restricteds?
@@yeet8036 Thats right, but this is Gamefreaks turn to ban overpowered mons or create new mons that can compare with them, so we finally get a choice. When someone says: "The Tournament looks boring because there is no variety in it." The valid Answer cant be: "oh fucking casual, cant you see that some of the mons got other movesets or spreads?"
Yes, the competetive Scene has no other choice - because everyone uses the overpowered mons, so i need to use them too. But its a valid opinion to find this little meta pool uninteresting, uncreative and boring. Especially as a casual Viewer.
@@Dacore_DE what do you think will happen once there are better pokemons than the current ones/the currently high usage get banned? That's right, people will optimize to the point where it's back to being having a defined meta.
@@chrismanuel9768 then go play with smogon tiers. you get to pick exactly what little pokemon you adore and use it against those its viable against, theres even little cup if you wanna use first stage and baby pokemon. But the top level players choosing a ledian over a landorus or whatever cause its cuter would be like a NBA player showing up to a game in timberland boots cause its what he likes the most on the street lol, theres times and places for preference and theres a time and place for optimization
The comment about using Pokémon as “tools for battle” had me ROLLING 😂
Will someone tell that person that Pokemon are not real living creatures
now i finally realize that the evil teams are always right. pokemon arent our friends they aint even real, they are merely tools used to win tournaments and championships
@@MrcreeperDXD777 Yeah, except for my pokemon. They're actually real, sorry you guys had to get stuck with the 1s and 0s.
@@maagic2031 aw man can you contact area 51 so i can get my own real life mega rayquaza with Huge Power, Outrage, Belly Drum, Thousand Arrows and Dragon Ascent?
@@MrcreeperDXD777 Belly Drum machine broke, is shell smash ok?
If going by the logic of “use your favorites” then uhhhh.... Groudon my favorite. BAM LOOPHOLE
Like zapdos is one of mine i love for typing desene and shur it base stats are great but i love as is
I love umbreon but its trash so i'd rather use espeon lmao
xQc plz don’t eat your keyboard 😧
@@requiem1k87 but umbreon is a legitimately good stall mon
Don't be ridiculous. By "your favorites" they of course mean their favorites
Every time I hear ray Rizzo's WC record, followed by "and nobody has one it more than once" it just blows me away
Interesting video. Wish I'd seen it when it first came out. Makes me a little less annoyed at legendary use, but really my issue with people using legendaries is more about them being legendaries than them being OP, cause plenty of them are in lower tiers for a reason. Personally, though, I think it's less a legendary issue and more and issue of power creep? Like, OU tier to me just feels like Ubers 2.0 at this point so I usually just mess around in lower tiers on Smogon unless I'm trying to mess around and use lower tier stuff in OU just for laughs. And there's a lot more variety in lower tiers than what I see in OU.
thats the problem with people constantly whining that there arent enough "good" pokemon, gamefreak makes more in that higher tier and now theres just even more forgotten mons at the bottom of the rung
Sword and Shield forcing me to learn double battles is what finally got me out of this mindset haha. There really is SO MUCH you have to consider, even if you're staring down the same mons you just saw last match.
Sw/Sh gave us a LOT of interesting stuff for doubles, on a lower tier or more casual setting I have no idea what I'll see
For me, it’s not so much “everyone uses _____” as “I HAVE to use _____”. I won’t argue the customization that you can get out of one species-you did a good job making that point clear. But it still feels a little constrictive when that one species is an essential part of the team, especially over other Pokémon one might prefer.
For example, I don’t have a problem with the idea that a lot of people use Dusclops, nor do I think all Dusclops are identical; what I DO have a problem with is the idea that I “need” to use a Dusclops over the Cofagrigus I like in order to perform.
Infact, when you are forced to use the same mons every other uses to be viable, then there is a huge balancing problem. And yea, to ignore that problem and making a whole Video to say: "Lol Casuals, look at different Movesets and Spreads, there is enough variety, everything its fine, you ppl just have not enough skill to understand what you see" - is really part of the problem here. Why it is so hard to accept that Viewers dont like mirror matches or dont want to see the same 15 Pokemon 20th times in one tournament, instead of agreeing with them and claim Gamefreak should deliver a better Banlist or more new viable Pokemon with the next Gen ?
This wideo was great! I’d love to see more of this kinda stuff :)
I haven't realized until now how cute is corsola
What a lot of people seem to miss about the Pachirisu situation is that he wasn't using it to own everyone by using a "weak" pokemon
He used it because it filled a specific metagame niche that gave him an out to common tactics.
For sure; it was the best redirection against Gen 6 Talonflame, who wrecked Amoongus, and Volt Absorb specifically protected his choice of Mega-Gyarados. It wasn't stubbornness, but a well-calculated choice.
@@fakeyfakerton694 Another thing people forget that is that it was merely a counter-pick Pokemon *for that tournament.* When people tried to use it afterwards, it didn't do too hot as people were able to adjust.
Choosing Pachirisu for that specific role was a testament of the stale and homogeneous state of the meta(game) in the tournament.
I think the official tournament should implement tiered sections like Smogon or average total stat points for all Pokemon like they average level to 50.
@@DanielDOleo Uh, how? The fact that it only really worked for that one tournament seems like a testament to the constantly changing nature of the metagame.
@@syweb2 Exactly. Amoongus was the most used redirector, Pokemon who could damage the Pokemon that Amoongus wanted to protect, started slapping Safety Googles because of that, other Pokemon inmune to Rage Powder increased in usage because of this, and therefore Sejun was looking for a re-director who used something other than Rage Powder, that could take attacks aimed at Gyarados and Talonflame (like electric), and Pachirisu also resisted Brave Bird from opposite Talonflames. A lot of changes occurred very rapidly, I don't know how @Daniel D'Oleo can think the Metagame was stale.
"Dark types are immune to Prankster"
Huh...Well I definitely learned something from this video
That was a relatively recent change, it didn’t apply until gen 7.
The worst part about it is, even if you would outspeed the other dark type, any status move you use with prankster against a dark type fails🤧
It might be interesting if dark types weren't effected by Prankster boosting moves the same way as Unaware 'Mons.
I've learned that the hard way... And I keep learning the hard way. Again, and again, and again. I don't think I will ever get used to it.
God, I miss old Prankster. Sableye was so fun in Gen 6 singles but a completely different Pokemon in a completely different metagame just had to screw it up for the rest of us!
I actually thought the nerfs to paralisis, confusion and prankster happened because of the prankster swagger strat (liepard + klefki + murkrow + sableye all with prankster swagger)
I feel like there's also a lack in variety in abilities
Which isn't anything against competitive players, it's a problem with Pokémon's design, where a lot of abilities are just bad
Like all starters have trash (and if not, then boring) base abilities, and only one alt ability, which means you'll only ever see that one ability on them
The Aaron zheng part was pretty hilarious. I remember watching that years ago hoping thundurus would get nerfed.
This was a desperately needed video. Someone else in the comments mentioned it, but there will always be a disconnect between what casual viewers and actual competitors are looking at in any sort competitive experience. Competitors might want fighting games with strong neutral, but the casual viewers just aren't interested in seeing two guys moving back and forth, "doing nothing". Pokemon is really similar. Competitors are metagaming and trying to squeeze every drop of optimization out of a mon, but the average viewer just sees the same 7 or so mons back to back with changes that SEEM very minimal. A more casual viewer might want to see some random picks like Jolteon come out and make a big upset, but that's a frustrating nightmare for a competitor who has to throw all of their planning out of the window and just guess because they didn't prepare for Jolteon. No one prepares for Jolteon because you would then lose to the other 99% of teams that would never consider it.
Good comment to an already excellent video.
I slightly disagree with the Jolteon example. If a niche or undiscovered Pokemon is about to make some massive ways in a tournament, then it could simply be thought of as a Counter-Meta or Counter-Counter-Meta pick, not something that came strictly out of the blue. A good player deserving of winning a tourney will always be on the lookout for even the weirdest of options, otherwise they kind of deserve to get outplayed and lose.
(See: Worlds B/W VGC where people began using Rivalry Haxorus to combat the Male-locked Genies, and Ray Rizzo scouting the strategy right before worlds, changing most of his team to Female Pokemon to stop it)
That hits the nail on the head. And you definitely see more varied teams in terms of species in Poké Ball and Great Ball tiers where casual players are often found vs. most meta standard teams in Ultra and Master Ball tiers.
Jolteon had a weird niche recently, due to the power of a fast yawn vs dynamaxed pokemon, mostly sub par, but not as useless as say um . . . I mean I've seen eviolite Mantyke used before for a bulky support, & cottonee has won a regional championship, I'll go with not as useless as Jolteon in every other format of VGC :smile:
I probably could have picked a worse pokemon, but Jolteon was just the first subpar mon on my mind.
Even though you can use different stats and moves on the same Pokemon, it doesn't change the fact that it's still _the same Pokemon_ using those stats and moves.
That said, I don't blame the players for this situation. The problem is that the game isn't balanced. With nearly 1000 Pokemon in existence, and many being balanced around the single-player experience, it would be impossible to make every one viable. Wolfey pointed out in another video that when the pool of available Pokemon is smaller, there is, paradoxically, _more_ variety in teambuilding. Maybe VGC could benefit from additional formats, or even a few bans? ( *_INCINEROAR_* )
Now I get the lesson of this video.
People will always gravitate to the strongest, and most reliable Pokémon, so the only way to actually beat them is to use said Pokémon in your own (stronger) way to counter them. Hence the abundance of reoccurring Pokémon among competitive teams.
Almost like they're... not very creative
"Even if you look a little outside of the Top 8, you'll see more unorthodox pokemon being used"
that might be why they're not inside the top 8
I mean, you don't magically enter dumb anything goes land below that point. Those teams won against many others to get there, maybe even some less optimized versions of the ones in the top 8.
iirc Wolfe bubbled at that tournament with the same record as some of the people who topped playing a very innovative team, the performance of his opponents decided whether he made top 8 or not then, iirc in some later years rules changed to all x-2s top, not sure what it is currently, also CHALKT flopped pretty hard in the post season, rain teams that had a pretty positive match up over it did fairly well then iirc, & maybe 3 or 4 of the standard team pilots, 2 for absolute certain, were straight up some of the most skilled players in the event, noticeably so, even with a full counter team they'd have been very hard to beat that day.
@@Marcusjnmc It was the year after that Worlds became all X-2 or better top cut, and it's been that way ever since. It's unfortunate that Worlds 2015 was only Top 8 cuz we would've seen more innovative teams like Wolfe's
Because Japan was ahead of the world
“i MisS wHen LegeNdArys aReNt uSEd”
yeah, like noone used legendaries in gens 1-3. like suicune, jirachi, zapdos, registeel never existed and never used in OU
bUt JiRaChI iS a MyThIcAl NoT a LeGeNdArY
Raikou as well in Gen 2 OU.
@@VVheeli gen 2 OU:
Snorlax
Zapdos
Raikou
@@Hollow_Shield13 suicune, and also articuno, moltres and entei wich are kinda incosistent in OU, to not say bad, but they are also too powerful for uu.
This video opened up my eyes so much. For a very long time, I was unable to make a proper team. I still struggle with it unfortunately, I was determined to make what I call a "meta-breaker" team. I was trying to find my own unique way to play in each game regardless of the meta, but that has never worked out in the long run. I'm still trying to get some practice in with swsh, at least until the next game drops. Thanks to your video Wolfey, I'm going to give some of the meta pokemon a try and see how it goes for me.
I love how much you say wideo. (and no wideo is not a typo)
I’d like to see the reverse of this video. Talk about how Pokémon of different species can perform similar roles and act very similarly. Showing that diversity of species doesn’t necessarily increase the diversity of the metagame
Yeah just like rilaboom and incin
Saying there’s no diversity in Pokémon VGC is the Pokémon equivalent of watching a professional soccer game and saying they’re all just European.
Or saying "All they do is running and chasing a ball."
Dumbest thing I've ever heard, literally the same 25 usage all the time. It's actually suprising when someone does something unique.
@@joshb3024 Watch the video, please.
@@gustavorodriguez5643 oh wow 2 different utility moves!!!!!!! So different. Stfu trash. Doesn't change why the mon was used and that it is stale af I know its scary for you bots to do something different instead of minor tweaks for 10 years lmaooooo
@@joshb3024 have you won a tournament with your favourite?
I come from the future to offer a quote that perfectly counters Karen's quote: "It's one thing to enjoy leisurely battles, but real battles can be a severe trial. Truly strong trainers sometimes must be prepared to choose Pokémon that can win rather than their favorite Pokémon." -Gentleman from Pokémon ORAS.
I don’t really enjoy competitive Pokémon anymore, but this video reminds me how I would run Magnet Rise on Jolteon to occasionally dodge earthquakes back in the day. Excellent video
“Using legendaries noobs” yeah no. I really think there is so much diversity in VGC right now and in singles, it’s so beautiful. Also the Corsola tournament sounds like a ton of fun and wouldn’t mind seeing something like that again.
It's definitely not as straightforward as people want to make it seem. And that's part of the fun!
Using legendaries noobs
corsola cup would be really fun specially now that there is regional variant (just no eviolite tho)
I'd gladly hear Wolfe talk for hours about how the different sets in identical species matchups made key differences to the battle :)
P.S. I made it "this far"
No idea if this is sarcastic ngl
But seriously, I find this level of detail and insight so fascinating. I'm not even a competitive player, but getting these in depth looks under the hood is so cool. I'd watch much longer videos about this!
Yh, I'm actually 100% serious, it's amazing seeing how much thought is put into every single part of a build
Me2 it would be very interesting.
While I 100% agree with everything you said, two Landorus-T's with two distinct movesets, hold items, and EV spreads, are still the same pokemon in the eyes of a casual fan, which, by definition, is the vast majority of people. And honestly, I would agree with that angle purely from a spectator's point of view. It just means that [insert pokemon here] is so strong AND versatile that it has options. The levels to the counter meta innovation occur more often within moveset / item / EV changes in the same pokemon, than they do with actual pokemon changes. While not always the case, that typically hints at a degree of over-centralization.
I think the vast majority of competitive players would agree that a centralized meta is absolutely good, if not necessary. The question has always been "Is the meta over-centralized?" which is not only difficult to answer, but frankly subjective and ever-changing (even within the same formats).
Great video though, it definitely changed how I see things at the very least.
Corsola example was awesome and made me wanna see more unique tournaments like that lol
Unorthodox Pokémon are only really good when they have a true reason to be there such as SeJun’s Pachurisu, I did well using one during Series 8 VGC when Torn-Ogre was meta because people wanted to spam Waterspout so I countered with super Special Bulk Goodra and Storm Drain Cradily, I love those Pokémon but they have a very small niche and overall as Wolfey said it’s more important to know when to use a Pokémon than how to use one...
Yeah, the main reason most pokes go unused is simply because other Pokémon can do what they do, but better. If a Pokémon is going to see competitive play, it has to be able to do something that other pokes can't.
I ran dry skin heliolisk with ally switch and it did a really great job at the metagame. Heliolisk also resists hurricane, so it can pretty much stop tornogre combo.
I had trouble with zacian-c instead. All I can think of is incineroar and ditto.
I think the lack of information given to the viewer is part of the problem, they could put the movesets and maybe the stats on the screen while they play.
"You should use your favorites!"
"My favorite is Landorus-Therian."
Can we have more Wolfey covering past tournament games in this way??? This is amazing content.
Imagine being a competitive threat
A message from a Bisharp
:(
Bisharp is at least good in singles
Bisharp is like top 20 OU it's pretty good in singles
U guys do know this is a joke right?
I can imagine being a ttar
Today on the internet: Pokémon players shocked to learn that competitive games have metas
They're also shocked to know that Pokemon was multiplayer and had competitive
@@Twilight-kb5to the problem is not "the meta", is how narrow it is.
@@Twilight-kb5to Breaking News: Players in a tournament are trying to win
Top kek, it's just, well, any game that has PvP will have the Most Effective Tactics Available. xD
@@Matiassanita well no matter what there will be some pokemon stronger than others. In fact wolfey even said himself that he wasn't against centralization unless it is such a large power gap. For me competitive pokemon is a representation of life. There will be some people better than others and luck will destroy or help you.
15:18 I can understand never wanting to see smeargle again though it looks like it never has ever slept
This wideo does not beat the argument "everyone is using the same pokemon", because what people mean when they say that is they want to use a pokemon like sentret because they like sentret and think it's cute, but there is no way that sentret can be used in competitive. Though it gets helping hand and follow me it's bulk wont let it stay on the field for more than 2 seconds. So if someone wants to play competitive pokemon and don't like any of the pokemon in the higher tiers, they're fresh out of luck, and also probably never got a shiny in their life but that is unrelated. So though there is diversity in individual species, that doesn't change the fact that landorous is still landorous and the person who likes sentret thinks it's ugly. The fact that we even need tiers for pokemon does suck the creativity out of players. If sentret was given prankster and then also had access to nasty plot with a focus sash, it could baton pass into gastradon who could have a new item that boosts the speed of pokemon with less than 50 base speed by 2x and use surf with the ally having storm drain. This is just one of infinite examples that could be given to every pokemon to add more creativity to teams and remove the need for tiers. If ideas like these were implemented two teams could be completely opposite and it would blow the mind of the viewers watching the world championship that sentret guy won. Though there is currently a lot of creativity in competitive, this would make the creativity for competitive infinite.
what you just said made 0 sense
@@germanfedyunin4803 he does make sense
@@yadhaider807 he literally is theorymoning for no reason
I love watching chaos unfold
@@personwithartistblock u love making shit points
"Ah, yes. How I miss the days of Lando-T, Primals and Xerneas." Said no one ever.
I onlysaw the top half of this before an ad popped up and thought "said no one ever".you accidentally got me
Said me
I was interested, my only Pokemon games being black/white and swsh(I didn't get a 3ds) but after seeing what it was like I was happy I didnt experience it
i only missed lando because lando is my god and i also only play singles
Lol, when the metagame is centralized around 4 Pokemon like 2016, you really can't be creative if you tried because you would just lose.
"It's one thing to enjoy leisurely battles, but real battles can be a severe trial. Truly strong Trainers sometimes must be prepared to choose pokemon that can win rather than their favorite Pokemon" -ORAS Battle Resort Gentleman
Just like Karen's speech about using favorites, it all depends on what someone plays Pokemon for. Both casual and competitive battles are valid ways of enjoying this series. Thanks for clearing up the lies that some believe about the VGC scene.
Competitive scene, not just VCG
@@nathanbyrnes334 U know im pretty sure they just look at "U just need luck 2 win" excuse (luck can be helpful/painful but thats also whats so fun bout competitive pokemon (just not ridiculous though))
You can use other mons, it's generally just harder to use them. They tend to require more support, but you do see them. They're more common in OU Blitz mode since ppl don't know the calcs as well, but you can make them work.
@@skullerclawerbandicoot7966 '.' in this game you can often make your own luck, find the narrow path that creates a chance to steal a win via a crit or freeze when all seems lost, or pile so much RNG onto the opponent that it's a statistical improbability for them not to get messed up by it, often repeatedly, completely destroying their chances to win.
@@ezla1663 in VGC uncommon mons are usually the ones doing the supporting, the mon that hits hardest is usually obvious, but very specific support niches can be much harder to find.
It's amazing how the meta "triangle" is at work in the tcg as well, also we have the difference in Deck lists like the different builds of teams and Pokemons
it's quite similar and I love it's because it shows the similarities between the two games that usually seems very different
its still annoying trying to play the same guessing game each time landorous or heatran appear, though thats more of a play gripe than a watch gripe
Loving this style of more "video essay"-like content
The I really don’t like wolf’s face comment has me dying 😭
"Why do these nerds take so long to choose their moves" got me
I definitely agree that there’s a lot more going on than people see. This was greatly educational and I feel more positively about VGC. I just wish that more of people’s favorites could be more viable. It sucks that you have to disregard a Pokémon you love because it’s not good. And hey, that’s part of how VGC works. It’s just a bummer when you want the little Pokémon you adore to have a chance at a big title. Thanks Wolfey for the wideo!
Ash vs Gary? In the show ash only won the would tournament once xD
it isn't just Pokémon, any competitive meta is like that.
then go play with smogon tiers. you get to pick exactly what little pokemon you adore and use it against those its viable against, theres even little cup if you wanna use first stage and baby pokemon. But the top level players choosing a ledian over a landorus or whatever cause its cuter would be like a NBA player showing up to a game in timberland boots cause its what he likes the most on the street lol, theres times and places for preference and theres a time and place for optimization
OMG, You showed a clip of the mega gengar perish song set with politoad, arcanine gothie and friends, I remember seeing that team and loving so much I played in a few Brazilians Tournaments back in the day lol
bring back corsola cup with added g corsola. please wolfey.
I like how when the comments were shown half of them were just saying Wolfey has a weird face
Yeah these people suck, they are bad minds. Also wolfey looks smart and his hair is the beat thing :D
i can’t believe that when people play Pokémon stick to the same 898 Pokémon
My most successful Showdown OU team contained a Hitmontop and a Volcarona on a rain team. It's all about filling the right roles to make a cohesive unit.
to be fair, volcarona has always been OU but hitmontop is a very good example
Vgc has sooo many unique pokemon lol literally there is so many good strategies with unique pokemon
Yeah! There are so many different ways to build a mon that it’s nearly impossible for the same team to win two worlds in a row, since by the best tournament there are bound to me counterplays. Even with rizzo being the first person to win three times, he won with a different team each time, though some pokemon were similar, they all had varying move sets that helped cater towards winning the meta.
Maybe this is a "hot take" of mine, but I think Pokemon falls into this issue because of the dissonance between competitor and spectator.
I'll use a personal example to kind of explain where I'm coming from. I'm pretty big into competitive Smash Bros but, as contradictory as this may sound, I actually really don't enjoy watching competitive Melee. When I watch high-end Melee, I see characters zig-zagging and sliding around all over the stage, combos that just seem like they were strung together by a TAS bot, and the same 4-6 characters being used on repeat. Now don't get me wrong, I realize there's TONS of technical and mental skill going into those movements, but I personally am surrounded by this bubble of ignorance. I could tell you what a Wavedash or SHFFL is, but that's about it. So when someone tells me that the Marth I just watched is SO MUCH BETTER than the other Marth because they zig-zagged left three times before pulling off their combo, the implications of why zig-zagging left three times is such a big deal is lost on me. I just see characters slipping around all over the place, why is three times so much more crazy than two or four? I enjoy Smash, but I don't want to have to learn an entirely new dictionary of terms of strategies just to understand how to WATCH a game.
All that to say, I think Pokemon is in a similar spot in terms of the divide between those who play competitively and those who casually check out Grand Finals of Worlds once a year just to see what it's all about. It's true that each Pokemon has WAY more going on under the hood and that a Thundurus who always moves first is a genuinely big deal strategically. But "Corey Casual" may barely even register the turn order, much less the strategic implications of something like Low Kick over Power-Up Punch. They can see Thundurus taking Thunder Wave, but due to not being well-versed in the strategy of the Meta themselves they don't register the scope of how big a decision that is. Without knowing the ratios of what moves typically OHKO or 2HKO a particular Pokemon, they aren't likely to pick up that one has been trained defensively, they'll just see "powerful Legendary lived through a strong hit." And so on. I don't mean to say this is EVERYONE who uses the "everyone just uses the same stuff" complaint, but I have to imagine it's a huge chunk of them.
So you’re saying noobs will be noobs like in any other game
@@Siscon92 Kind of but not really. I'm saying some games do a better job than others at making watching it being played interesting to people of all skill levels and that Pokemon as a series isn't actually great at that.
@@reperfan4 casual pokemon is what most people are used to, and casual pokemon is kinda simple. Bigger stats + powerful moves = op.
As someone trying to hardcore nuzlocke BW, may Odin bless my soul, you start to look deeper into the interactions of the pokemon: My mon has a lonely nature, that means it dies to crit, but if it were netral it could take it.
Now take those interactions and interpolate them to people who actually know how to play. How fast does my mon need to outspeed this popular set, or how chunky to make a 2hko into a 3hko.
Evolve, adapt, overcome. I guess.
@@reperfan4 wait if you know ypu are being ignorant, then you must understand what's going on actually? I don't understand
@@daphenomenalz4100 My ignorance is that I know there are things about Melee that I don't understand, but I'm not interested enough in the game personally to take the time to learn those things.
This is something I feel both Melee and Pokemon share, in that if the viewer doesn't already understand what's going on "under the hood" then they become unable to actually follow the gameplay on a meaningful level.
I would love deep dives on major pokemon tournament matches and their builds and choices when playing. It would definitely help people become better players.
I understand your point, and I respect it. There are different ways to use each Pokemon, and that's really cool. That in itself shows a degree of diversity. At the same time, let's not lie to ourselves. Everything you showed us was about as diverse as a Hallmark movie. You could also make the argument that even some of the different builds you showed us are technically similar because they even involve using similar moves. I understand both sides of the argument, and I'm not attacking anyone. Personally, I don't like it because it still feels too generic. While yes it is about how and when you use the proper Pokemon, it really just looks like the same thing copy pasted. Again, no hate to anyone and I respect all opinions
Did you skip the segment about the corsola cup lol
@@gerrynava981 I get what he's saying. Like yeah, if you dig I to the numbers it's very different, but for the average person that isn't going to read through a bunch of spreadsheets to find the small variations, it might as well be a copy paste job. Let's face it, 90% of people don't care that one guy had more HP EVs bit the other guy had more defence EVs.
@@ssfbob456 Well at that point then competitive pokemon just isnt for them then xP