10 Amazing Commodore 64 Games System Facts
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- čas přidán 2. 08. 2024
- In this video we look at ten fascinating facts about Commodore's failed C64GS console.
Video Links:
RGCD Website - www.rgcd.co.uk/
Psytronik Website - psytronik.bigcartel.com/
Games That Weren't - www.gamesthatwerent.com/gtw64...
C64 Wiki Cartridge List - www.c64-wiki.com/wiki/Cartridge
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#commodore64 #retrogaming #commodore - Hry
Whoever was in charge of Commodore at the time was a lunatic. The C64 was practically already dead and they tried to make it even more pointless by removing the home computer capabilities and go up against the SNEs, Sega etc.
Commodore was a failure of a company, saved only by the fact they had MOS technology for the 6502, and the vic-ii and SID chips. Everything else they did was off the mark, and the management had no idea.
Loved the c64 and the amiga btw
I think they knew it was all futile, and were simply trying to milk their plaform for as long as possible. Then they incredibly tried the same sad tactic with the CD32. In my opinion, they must have known that both money grabs were going to flop and hard. so to me it was more resignation than incompetence at play.
@@CaptainCaveman1170 It was incompetence because I remember reading the interviews with Commodore's senior brass (UK and US) back in the 90s - they genuinely believed that these were all good decisions and David Pleasance revealed himself to be totally clueless on a monthly basis when he responded to questions and criticisms in his Amiga Format column.
I came across a CZcams channel recently (can't remember the name) that was literally full of videos mocking stupid things that David Pleasance has said over the years.
@@TheLairdsLair There's certainly plenty of material! 😂
I remember this... we all knew it was a bad idea back then. Thing is I think the GX4000 actually did a little better, people seemed to like that bundled racing game at least, although I don't know anyone who bought either of them... or even wanted them back then... we had 16-bits already.
I think the Amstrad was a little better conceived, and did at least have some improvements over its computer forebears. It was just too late to market. and underpowered.
I brought a Gx4000 from a game shop in box for £50 it's still and has never been out of the box.
@@brendanroberts1310 - these days, with a flash cart it makes a nice handy consolised CPC+, and there's a fair bit of good homebrew around. Last I checked there was over 700 titles converted to the GX4000.
I remember seeing these units stacked high in Debenhams for £49 then £29 quid. But i was a very skint school child so could no more afford this or the Sinclair c5's going for £149 in Comet 😕
It's absolutely unbelievable that the Terminator 2 cartridge made it all the way to production *without a single person actually testing it on the console it was going to be sold with!* DERP!!!
It wasn’t sold with it. Stores bundled the cart with the console. In its own box. Commodore never sold the T2 cart with the console. But yes, point still stands that someone should have tested it with an actual console before sale.
Read his post again, he didn't say it was. He said "Going to be sold with", because that was the intention, as detailed in the video.
Great vid! I had only one gaming cartridge back then for my trusty C64 - Sub hunt. I stumbled upon it on a flea market. But my cartridge slot was occupied with my „final cartridge“ all the time 😜. Pro‘s: no loading time (If you ever owned a Datasette you will understand 😝). Con‘s: no „security copy“ possible 😅. We used our audio double tape decks to make them…boy I am old…😂 Happy weekend everyone! 🤘 Cheers from Germany…
I was reading through the first issue of commodore format recently and the upcoming release of this was their cover story. They had an interview with Kelly Summer and he mad the bold statement that it would take just two days to convert many games over to the cartridge format. He was under the impression that because commodore was well known in the UK people who knew their products would be more likely to buy it. So it seems they were marketing it at people who already had a Commodore 64 the thing that already had a cartridge slot to begin with.
Yeah, absolutely crazy!
Another sweet entry in the "The 10 Amazing Facts"-series 🤩
I saw one of these for sale on Gumtree some years back but I passed on it. Yet another milestone of Commodore's road to ruin that was paved with mind-boggling decisions from the C16 through to the CD32. It's a wonder that they lasted till 1994. Anyhow, C64 cartridge games were commonplace in the UK during the 80s. I had Q-Bert and bought it from a computer show.
Bet you wish you'd bought it now considering what they sell for!
There was a C64 (with keyboard) sold in Germany with a "PowerPlay" cartridge _and_ a two-button NES-style gamepad!
Because they are quite rare, I've never got hold of any to find out how the buttons work,
Interesting!
In some games (Commando e.g.) the space bar was the “second button” (throwing grenades). If you had a 2nd joystick, the press of the fire button would result in the same. Maybe the cartridge worked around this somehow with an adapted joystick/gamepad? 🤷🏻♂️ 🤔
No the second button is wired separate, it doesn’t route to space bar
Nice video. As a small aside: the C64 was technically able to use an Atari 7800 controller, as the ports were pin compatible. The two buttons were wired internally to each of the analog "paddle" pins for two button games and together to the single "fire" button pin for backwards compatibility with one button games. However, I don't know of any games supporting that scheme for two button controllers. 7800 controllers were hardly popular in the US. lol
Well, yes. They can be used for single button C64GS games, but not 2 button games, which was my point.
@@TheLairdsLair The GS was certainly stuck in regards to controller design. They could have made a two button controller standard from the start, but games would have to be written to use it. Or rather rewritten, but few devs were going to dig up code up to a decade old at that point. It was certainly a no-win scenario.
The same could be said of the GS itself.
@@TheLairdsLairI specifically remember using a SMS controller with a commodore 64 with success.
You are missing the point, like the OP above. Any Atari compatible controller would work with the C64 and C64GS, the problem was they would only be SINGLE button. Because with the C64GS Commodore used their own unique pinout for the second button, meaning other multi-button controllers weren't compatible.
@@TheLairdsLair ah ok. Ya I remember playing double dragon, ghosts and goblins and golden ax, among other things on my friends c64 in the late 80s. I brought my sms controllers over and that's what we almost always used.
Had the Vic20 and Amigo - my Vic20 had a cassette tape drive that was read write while the Amiga had a 5½ disk drive - while the games I had could keep up with any of the consoles at the time where it really shone was its peripherals and professional software. The music programs I had were the most advanced I had seen up to that time up to 1990. Then here was the Video Toaster which was dope times 3, the Koala Pad which was a early preview of what was to come from a little company named Silicon Graphics - first 56k baud modem I saw in an Amiga. Anyone remember this early role playing choose your own adventure game on cassette - real D&D influence on it - cannot remember the name right now. Looking at it today I wonder how simple I mustve been back then to be so thoroughly amused - wish I learned more BASIC bc I definitely wouldvd some stuff
The only good thing that came out of the C64GS was that it gave us some heavyweight titles that nobody really expected to come out on the c64, like Pang, Terminator 2, Shadow of the Beast Robocop 3 or Toki. This was thanks to Commodore's promise that the cartridge format was harder to copy than disks or tapes, meaning that publishers would sell more units. Technically, it would have been possible to make a game that was impossible to run from disk by making cartridge access speeds (which are far beyond disk or tape!) an inherent feature of the game and/or using up all 64k of RAM *plus* the 8k of cartridge RAM, but in reality only Toki ever came close to that goal. This is why the cracks of Toki back then lacked the music, and only recently the first cracked version featuring music was released, and it required more or less a complete data restructuring and vast rewrite of the entire game to use the 64k more effectively so the music would also fit.
Holy crap, they removed the keyboard and thought that was a good idea. The cartridge port was alreeady THERE!!
Legendary channel. Never gets boring.
OMG 13:27 i have that cheetah terminator 2 joystick, it bearly works as a controller but looks cool on my shelf
I've heard to the Commodore 64 Games System but never have heard amazing put in the same sentence as it. It's strange, the concept of a C64 console sounds great but execution is everything.
2:00 - It managed to sell more than the GX4000? That's a surprise. I certainly prefer Commodore over Amstrad but from what I hear, the GX4000 was more reliable of a system (and has a cooler design; do love the look).
3:46 - I think this is perhaps the most well known story about the Commodore Game System. A blunder of truly epic proportions.
5:15 - The Commodore Max was a console? It has a keyboard though! This is the least console-looking console of all. Ironically though, it having a keyboard on the console itself would have avoided the Terminator 2's press key issue that plagued the Commodore Game System.
10:07 - You would have thought that would have resulted in an easy re-release strategy for Commodore. You could pitch the American cartridge releases as fresh released for the PAL market.
12:13 - I wonder how viable it would have been for Commodore to have instead made the Commodore Games System as a handheld system instead, similar to how the Game Gear serves effectively as a portable Master System. Given the size, it could have possibly been the only gaming handheld to play cassettes over cartridges.
16:41 - That puts a dent in my "handheld what-if" scenario. It would have probably been too much effort to rearrange the chips into a small form factor with how consistently they reused the motherboards. At least they effectively recycled them.
19:10 - Sadly for the CD32, it was too little, too late. I find it an oddly charming console an it seemed to show Commodore trying to learn from their prior console mistakes.
by 1990 all anyone wanted was an Amiga. as soon as i got one i never turned my c64 on again
I never was a C-64 person but i "wish" i had been. I was an Amiga person 1000% and i loved the games but Commodore had the break-out systems when it came to gaming and I had a Tandy CoCo 2 then went to a Tandy 1000 TL/2 then Amiga then various PC machines over time. I wasn't overly fond of tape drives but the C-64 got you as close to gaming as you could get on a budget setup.
I would love to run a game system library but i would be too tempted to play with them :)
This, however, is a neat concept and i had always wondered if Commodore had made something like this. Of course, when you think Commodore, you have to remeber the "dark lord" that ran it for a time and i wonder if this was under his reign or not?
Are you keeping up with the Commodore?
Because the Commodore is keeping up with you!
Fire-button on joystick port 1 is the same signal as the [space] key - ie. "a key". So the "issue" could have been solved with a simple addendum.
Firstly, the GS has a special ROM chip that is different to the standard C64C. This displays an animation if there is no cartridge inserted, and has additional routines for displaying windows and a pointer. (Although no games used it in the end). The cartridge connector is also different, because of where the slot is on the GS.
The Terminator 2 cartridge with the extra software was NEVER bundled with the C64GS console. It was ONLY bundled with the C64C computer in the Terminator 2 pack. You find it sold separately these days in a smaller blue box than other Ocean cartridges. The label says GS compatible because Ocean reused the label design from the original version of the cartridge, that's the mistake.
This new generation of cartridges had a larger capacity (either 128K or 256K) compared to the original C64 cartridges, plus the ability to page in new data from the cartridge as required. That's what made games like Battle Command possible, and also gave almost instant loading compared to tape or disk. That was a big advantage, along with the fact you could play that same cartridge on the standard C64.
You showed Hook - it never got a C64GS cartridge release because of Ocean's contract with Nintendo - it did not allow them to publish a cartridge other than on the NES. The same applied to WWF Wrestlemania.
It's also a bad idea to hook up controllers from other computers/consoles to the C64's joystick ports. You can use a Mega Drive/Genesis pad with a small adapter which protects the port from voltages on the wrong pins. If you don't use it, you run the risk of frying the CIA chips that handle IO.
The CDTV and CD32 have nothing to do with the C64GS, why include them?
RGCD have made sure the majority of their titles are compatible with the GS.
Firstly, I said in the video that the C64GS has a totally different ROM and showed the motherboard with the extended connector.
Secondly, I never said that Terminator 2 was bundled with the C64GS, I only said it was bundled with the C64C.
Thirdly Hook was announced for the C64GS and appeared on release lists - as stated on GTW "Hook (Ocean) - Confirmed the cartridge version was cancelled, but did exist!"
Fourthly, I never suggested using controllers from other systems on the C64.
Fifthly, I mentioned the CDTV and CD32 because they are also Commodore consoles so part of the same family. I regularly mention other machines in the same family as an entry in these Amazing Videos because people always ask and/or mention them in the comments.
Lastly, hence why I promoted RGCD in the video.
@@TheLairdsLair at 3:29 you clearly said that Commodore struck a deal to bundle the Terminator 2 cartridge with every C64GS.
Yep, I say "They struck a deal" not "They bundled a cartridge with every console"
Agreeing a deal is not the same as actually doing something, especially when I follow that by explaining why that bundle never happened and what happened instead.
@@TheLairdsLair no, you are misrepresenting what happened. The cartridge wasn’t bundled with the C64C because of the keyboard mistake - the cartridge bundled with the C64C had the extra software added to it.
And you may have mentioned the GS having a different ROM, but you completely misunderstand how it worked. It did not give “fast access” to the cart. It detected whether a cartridge was attached - if it wasn’t, the animation was displayed. If a cartridge was attached, the cartridge took control and started up.
I’ve been writing about the C64 for thirty years, I have produced multiple articles covering the C64GS and cartridges, and you have your “facts” wrong.
Again, you are TOTALLY misrepresenting what I said and misquoting the video. I never used the words "fast access", you just made that up, I actually said "changed to boot cartridges directly", which is factually true.
If the Terminator 2 story is wrong then tell people like Commodore's David Pleasance who has repeated it multiple times.
Being midway through my Amiga years, the whole C64GS thing passed me by at the time. There was a rash of these failed projects from companies that had otherwise been very successful. Sinclair, Commodore, Atari, and Amstrad all had disasters like this. It just seemed to be habit-forming with Commodore.
By the way, thanks for the video. It caused me to pull my C-64 Forever emulator out and start playing those games again :)
The C64 GS looked nice ..didnt know this
I do think that the concept of a C64 GS could have been successful. But Commodore had to approach it from a realistic angle, and cater for what its potential market actually was. Firstly, forget about trying to compete for custom with the 16-bit systems of the day. Heck, it couldn't really even compete with the aging 8-bit NES and Master System. The C64's strength was always in budget gaming. That would have been my sole focus. Now, this might seem like a bit of a mad idea, but hear me out. Make it a cassette console. Forget about cartridges, too expensive and had never been a big draw of the system. Make the unit design more appealing, stick a built in tape drive on it. That's a unique selling point already. I don't think that the load times would have been much of a put off, certainly not in the UK market. And ship them out as close to a £50 price tag as possible. Bundle a ton of archive games, you could probably fit a total of 10 on both sides of a 120 minute cassette. Stick five of the beauties in the box, you've got 50 classic games right from the off. Create a C64 joypad, include at least one with the console. I defy any non C64 owner of the day to not be tempted by that. And to circumvent the "Press a button" issue, include a virtual keyboard on the system rom. Is this all a crazy idea? Yeah, kinda. But it's a crazy idea which I think was crazy enough to actually work. I'd have really wanted one of those.
Battle Command is fantastic! The C64 cart was better than the Amiga version.
Sega Megadrive released in the UK at the start of 1991, GS64 and GX4000 had a full year to get it's act together which sadly never happened.
Still..., it was great having Last Ninja Remix on cartridge, the best thing to come out of this console mess at the time. Just wished they did more carts as 1990-1992 was epic for C64 as the games played just as good as the Amiga counterparts, some times better - Indy Heat.
small fact: I used to use a megadrive pad to play some C64 games, Bubble Bobble specifically springs to mind...
You can use can use any Atari compatible pad, I use a Mega Drive pad with my Atari 8-bit. The problem with the C64GS was the 2 button compatibility.
Making a computer into a game system isn't a bad idea. Basically that's all the Xbox and Playstation have been for 2 generations. The issue with the 80s and 90s was they were always pushing significantly outdated technology.
I didn't know it existed at the time - I had a C64 as my only system as a kid from about 1988 to end of 1993 - my family were poor and everybody had Megadrives - not that I cared, Mayhem in Monsterland was coming out :D
The t2 box had the ljn symbol on it. A sure sign of dissapointment lol
I really can't blame Commodore for all these half-assed, last ditch efforts they made. The advent of the IBM compatibles was like death himself showing up at the edge of their garden. The days of any and all competing proprietary home computer platforms were numbered as early as 1984/85 in my opinion. Apple only just barely survived the IBM rapture by being niche, cultish, and a bit "exclusive/luxury" (plus their ingenious school exclusivity helped a lot). So Commodore, Atari and others were truly dead men walking...and they they probably knew it, so they tried throwing anything at the wall that would be cheap and easy to put in stores (by using existing parts and old tech). Sure, it''s sad for us that we had to witness (and sometimes purchase, endure) these inferior, deceptive products, but business is business and they were on a slowly sinking ship. Even if we could rewind the clock and add the correct amount of features and zest to this console (and other dogs like the CD32), the insane software support of the IBM PC was going to be unstoppable eventually, and the NES was also far too mighty on the dedicated console side. SEGA then came in and set the video game bar that much higher. Call me pessimistic, but I think Commodore (and Atari) had no way out once the "specialists" showed up. I personally wish the situation had evolved differently myself. I greatly dislike that a business computer became the basis of all our desktop computing needs, but that's what happened and although we early-days fanboys probably all hate it, what happened does makes sense. I would have much preferred all home computers today being descendents of a Commodore, Atari, or especially MSX plataform myself, but that was not meant to be 😊
Real Commodore 64's required a knowledge of Basic and had games stored on cheap cassette tapes.
Number 1 hooray.....it's an honor. Excellent video good sir.....I'd like to thank the......I came for the fun and stayed for the human killing machine game
Classic game roflmao. So bad its....Well not good. Just hillarious
Stunt car racer is amazing- no natter what platform.
I was one of the 20,000. Literally sold my NES for the privilege. One of the worst decisions anyone under the age of twelve has ever made.
Oh dear . . . . . .
I still have my C64GS & it was fun for what it was, pricy games though, just as typing a comment about T2 you mention it neeing a keyboard you beat me to it
The C64GS is lower-budgeted, missing half the features, is downward compatible with a large number of C64 software, only supports joystick controllers, and lacks a keyboard & expansion capabilities.
Thanks for that.
Press key on the keyboard, who was the numb nut who did that :)
DOH.
Putting games on cartidge is not as simple as dumping program data on a cartridge rom. Major changes need to be made especially when asset loading occurs between levels. Not to mention save game data.
Yep, hence why I said "converted to run from cartridge" or words to that effect.
I really really hate that Commodore commercial song. I always proffered the classical piece of music they used
Regarding the T2 keyboard issue, was it ANY key to begin? I'm wondering if there was a workaround. A joystick in port 1 on a regular C64 generates spurious keypresses, so I wonder if wiggling a joystick in port 1 would start the game.
Somebody else in the comments said this was possible if you persisted doing it.
Wish to see a third-party keyboard accessory that would be exclusively compatible with C64GS, and a third party replacement for the Cheetah Annihilator joystick bundled with the C64GS.
I take it the c64 cartridges themselves fit the console version.
It seems utterly loony to release a c64 with a lopped off keyboard for more money with far limited potential such as no tapes....
Insane.
I had t2 for my c64
Yes, I did talk about that in the video.
👍 👍 👍 🍀 Well done!
Endlessly reselling old rope - must be part of MBA programmes lol and for years
is their a list of official C64GS carts released in '90-'91?
Weirdly I couldn't actually find one anywhere, just a list of ALL C64 cartridges, which I linked in the description. It's quite easy to work out what the later games are though, not just by name or year but also by publisher, because there were such a small amount of people who made C64GS games - Ocean, System 3, Disc Company, Dinamic and Domark
Silverrock in Denmark too. And a few random other publishers.
Wow not even 1mhz!
What is the game at 11:45?
And 12:05
And 12:47
And 14:25
PAL games I am guessing?
As I say in the video, the C64 GS is a PAL console, so yes.
The games are as follows:
Hook
Myth
Navy Seals
Fast Food
It's rather sad that people would want to spend more money on this failed console nowadays then it would have costed the equivalent of a boys weekly paper route back in the day....boy are we suckers for memorabilia. That little trinket seller stand across from the world's biggest ball of yarn now has significants in this world......well back to sob in my whiskey solo......by the way after hearing that commodore jingle 10 times id never like to hear it again
Are you keeping up with Commodore?
@@TheLairdsLair that's the one. Still stuck in my head
I have to say, the Commodore didn't really keep up with me.
Well the game terminator definitely terminated the C64GS, litterly hence the name ‘terminator’🤣🤣
Let this to be a warning, never bundle the game terminator with your game system because of getting otherwise be terminated,hahaaa🤣🤣