The Coddling of the American Mind: Haidt/Lukianoff
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- The Coddling of the American Mind on Amazon: amzn.to/2QJ20MQ
Consider this book as a gift for your local school board member, teacher or principal. The more educational professionals become aware of the issues it presents, and the dangers of our current hyper-protective preoccupations, the better the chances we'll change course.
I spoke with Greg Lukianoff and Jonathan Haidt September 18, 2018 about their new book, The Coddling of the American Mind -- a treatise on the counterproductive but increasingly predominant "safety culture" of trigger warnings, safe spaces and microaggression sensitivity.
We discussed the psychological and sociological factors that underlie this philosophy of fragility, over-protection and offense, considering the contribution of older parents, fewer siblings, the strange interaction of postmodern philosophy and Marxism on campuses, and the widespread use of social media by young people.
We focused on the increasing proclivity of those teaching in the social sciences and humanities to characterize Western culture as patriarchal and oppressive; producing, as a secondary consequence, a pervasive and all-encompassing victim/victimizer narrative (and producing that partly for the purposes of justifying that characterization).
We considered what steps might be taken, personally and socially, to produce an alternate culture of resilience, responsibility, strength and courage.
Here are some links specifically relevant to our discussion:
Book website: www.thecoddling.com
Website of FIRE (Foundation for Individual Rights in Education): www.thefire.org
Advice and research on free-range parenting: www.letgrow.org
Books by Greg Lukianoff:
Unlearning Liberty: amzn.to/2Dl5WAO
FIRE’s guide to free speech on campus: bit.ly/2Oz7zM7
Freedom from speech: amzn.to/2QNZCV4
Books by Jonathan Haidt:
The Righteous Mind: amzn.to/2OCG1pl
The Happiness Hypothesis: amzn.to/2piKSkp
All Minus One (John Stuart Mill on free speech, illustrated): amzn.to/2QH1zT9
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Dr. Peterson, please invest in a better mic setup. A number of gamer CZcamsrs have nailed down the cost effective way to get good quality audio.
I'm on the road, and my laptop extension jack appears to be intermittently faulty -- hence the rumble. I have a good USB mic on order.
It's art. Like listening to an old radio show.
Great! I hope it serves you well!
And BTW, as a fellow road warrior, it looks like you're in a Marriott hotel. Lol.
Blue Yeti is good, apparently.
Jordan Peterson isn’t alt-right or far right. He’s just Damn right!!!!!!
You're preaching to the choir here.
Correct*
@Kvothe Windrunner: I can't stand it either.
Saw this on his other videos. If you agree with Peterson, don't pretend like others' words are your own. Comes across as insincere.
Kvothe Windrunner it’s not for your benefit, clown. It’s for the new, skeptical visitors who have been informed about JBP’s character from the duplicitous MSM. Don’t like it? Move along. Clean your room. And lay off the soy. It’s turning you into a whiner.
I am sure I am biased due to my role as a mother but it seems to me the breakdown of the family and parents not teaching their kids are the cause of almost every issue out there. I really do believe if my husband and I try our best to prepare our kids for adulthood they will succeed. Schools can’t put in what parents left out.
Yes!!!
That's a great point. I notice a lot of parents these days making the mistake of 'helicopter parenting' these days. As a result, many children do not learn how to be as self-sufficient as past generations did. I don't think that is the only reason, I am sure there are many factors, but this is one I have personally noticed that has very visible and blatant consequences.
@@ajb7786 Well said. You're absolutely right. It's probably really noticable in your line of work. You get to see so many kids in various stages of their development the problems probably become obvious. Not to mention, getting to speak to parents about how things are at home. Remember when parents listened to teachers? I do.
"My husband and I". Your kids will be fine. The ones who suffer are the children of the legions of "strong, independent women who don't need no man (except for handputs from the government or child support from a man or both).
Put family back together at the domestic court level and the kids will start to recover.
Well said! As one who was raised by overprotective parents, (thank God I noticed this very early in life), I became a guy who always lies to my parents/ grandparents just so I could go out in the world and experience the harsh world as it is. I also became someone who enjoys criticism and one who searches for people who have a different POV than me. I dont know how I would be now if I remained blind in the early age.
School children really need to be learning the 10 key distortions used in CBT.
>All or nothing thinking **
>Emotional reasoning **
>Mind reading
>Magnification
>Minimization
>Labelling **
>Should statements
>Overgeneralisation **
>Catastrophic thinking
>Fortune telling
Anon One where can I learn more about this? Is there a good video or book?
Jeramy Murray doot
Jeramy Murray
Probably one of the best books is by *Dr David Burns, 'feeling good, the new mood therapy'. also '10 days to great self esteem' workbook* that takes you through the concepts using the workbook.
Anon one .. Yes ! With a little imagination and a good cartoonist we could teach very young children to recognize these distortions. Funny to think of such enlightened kids catching their parents out !
Annie Simon
The general level of 'in'-sanity is growing daily, it's the 'in thing' it seems. How much needless suffering, magical thinking could be reduced through such endeavours. The truth is, contented people tend not to feel the urgency to compulsively purchase things they don't need on credit cards at 20% interest, so its unlikely to change. Jobs and pensions depend in some sense on much of this suffering and insanity.
when i was a young father, we were at a campfire and a much older cousin of mine complimented my wife and I for letting our children run and explore while other parents there hoovered over their kids like the protecting helicopter. She said that she always believed in giving her children enough rope to hang themselves, but teach them to not do that.
Dude yes. I do the same as you do.
Life is tough. Better to honestly introduce children to that reality as they mature instead of letting them get blindsided as unprepared adults.
As a Child and Adolescent Psychiatrist I am awed by the clarity of thought in confronting the destructive direction of enabling and even training weakness in Universities led by "experts" who are doing the opposite of accepted clinical practice for anxiety disorders or even "oversensitivity". Why are the mental health professionals so quiet on this grevious error? Bless Jordan Peterson for his capacity to synthesize and confront self defeating policies!!
I think partially it's meritocracy.. I feel most physicians enjoy the study as an 'intellectual' superior to a degree and not applying their work to patients by applied empiricism or pragmatics.
The reason I think this is having engaged in convos with my past psychologists and people in the CPS field. If you disagree with them, their first rebuttals are pointing to your education vs theirs. Not critical thinking. It's the authority. Then they say something to effect of, this came from one study at HARVARD. Which is great, but statistical parameters are more important. It's about authority and I find many people in the field are looking to tell others you need to clean your room and haven't ever touched theirs.
Psychology is still a new field. New studys are consistently being updated and discredited so it's just as ever important to apply the scientific method, not go off of the newest/coolest study. A few decades ago psychology said homosexuality is a mental illness. They aren't as impervious as they seem.
As someone who has suffered from Social Anxiety and BDD since my early teenage years, and have seen psychiatrists and counselors who recommended CBT, I can attest that facing triggering and uncomfortable situations is the only way to improve. Hiding from mental health issues or trying to sanitize the environment does more harm than good. The process of facing your fears is at the core of self-improvement.
Avalon Justin what is CBT?
Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, which they touch on in the video. Basically teaching you how to confront negative thoughts in the moment, and think in a more positive and realistic way. Worked wonders with me! It's a long and difficult process.
Good luck with it friend. It's a battle we have to fight alone, but that is where we gain our strength.
Thank god, I thought CBT was in marijuana and they were prescribing it. Keep working, your on the correct path.. I wish you well Avalon
Avalon Justin be well - thank you for sharing.
*It should be noted that since Haidt began the Heterodox Academy / Anti-Social Justice program in 2015, just 3 years ago, his project has had a HUGE impact on how the Universities are positioning their programs. This is a project that **_must_** be supported fully by as many honest educators as possible if the University is going to **_survive_** in any useful form **_whatsoever_** . This is a **_highly_** effective program - every little bit has a logarithmic (or better) effect, so contribute anything you can, whether it is money, pressure on your institution(s), time - anything you can spare!*
It is just so refreshing to listen to three individuals having an intellectual discussion on very heavy ideas - rationally.
Peterson is going by “emotional reasoning” though, as well as “us vs them” cognitive distortions, and that is completely ignored by Haidt/Lukianoff even though they wrote a book about those terms. This is pure irrationality.
Three badass intellectuals who nail the most important sociological phenomenon that has occurred in contemporary Western societies.
Sabrina Santiago Couldn’t agree more, the original essay was outstanding and looking forward to reading the book!
This theory is dangerously wrong so it's the opposite of what you just said. 'It happened almost overnight'. That doesn't sound much like a restructuring/evolution of the cognitive mind to me. More like a change in strategy. How to get people banned in universities? How about pretending to be all hurt and oppression.
It's brutal how much to suicide rates have gone up, especially so for young girls. We need to address the negative impact social media sites have on kids!
Proof Please...Links to hard copy documents etc
Too bad the people that need to listen to this podcast never will.
My teacher from another part of the world
Isn't it a miracle?
Thanks to those people who dedicated their lives to create the Internet and CZcams :-)
This is really interesting as a new mom. My son is just a month old right now but I think it's good for me to learn about how important play is once he's old enough to do so. I also totally get why parent are protective now. It starts young with the fear of SIDS happening. They tell us not to have them in a swing too long, don't swaddle, don't put on a sleep sack, no blankets ect. Its pretty easy to get paranoid and the internet doesn't help.
Read peterson's chapter "dont let your kids do anything which makes you dislike them" from his book "12 rules for life". Its a must for anyone in your position! Good luck :)
Turns out that when you treat college students like babies, they actually do become babies. Who knew? /sarc
Do you think that's why so many men behave like babies and bullies? I do
Obozo MustGo 😂🤣😂🤣
T McAuliffe and of course no women ever behave like that.
You can easily replace « college students » by anything you want
Ppl in general.
Absolutely brilliant. That statement about teaching kids the habits of depressed individuals was quick but blew my mind. And Haidt’s book is outstanding.
Two factors prohibit spontaneous child play:
1) Play dates are necessary; both parents work
2) Geography: fewer families with children and less children means there are fewer children to play with in the child's neighborhood.
Dr. Peterson: I actually believe siblings are necessary for the maturing of a child. Older siblings model for younger ones for appropriate behavior and all siblings help the child in social development. As a grown member of a large family, I learned how to compete, prove my mettle, and lose with grace.
As a parent to twins my children have no peers to learn these things from. Parents are poor substitutes as the child is accustomed to nurturing and safety, thus there is no impetus to move forward or challenge oneself.
I would be very interested in any studies you might do in this area.
>As a parent to twins my children have no peers to learn these things from.
I don't understand. Didn't you just say siblings are the ideal candidates? How much more a peer can you be than a twin?
The part on being praised for protesting resonated with me. I went to a very liberal university in Manhattan, and there were always protests going on outside the main building. I always thought maybe there was something wrong with me that I didn't want to do that since it seemed everyone was involved somehow. I think it was more that I didn't want to protest, just to protest. I guess this speaks to the confusion of wanting to belong, especially as a young adult in a new environment. Interestingly enough, I saw Dr. Peterson speak at this same college last February. It would have been amazing to have him as a professor.
Wow you're pretty.
so are you ryan super pretty. Can we go on a date?
@@fivemethoxy you have to buy me a drink first.
Lindsey Milazzo it’s cool to protest in some circles tho I think... regardless of merit. It’s like getting a cool FB profile photo.
Mom Is Watching You I agree - but I hope that there’s a future where when we do protest it holds more meaning, substance and purpose. I’m a little old now (mid 30’s) and it seems to me that the anarchist movement blended into the current ‘antifa’ movement which is more about attention and destruction than purpose
Jonathan Haidt is such a smart and admirable man.
This theory is dangerously wrong so it's the opposite of what you just said. 'It happened almost overnight'. That doesn't sound much like a restructuring/evolution of the cognitive mind to me. More like a change in strategy. How to get people banned in universities? How about pretending to be all hurt and oppression.
Admirable and amiable
As i mentioned elsewhere, the fact that they conflate antisemitism (ethnicity) with antizionism (politics) and have the nerve to face palm someone who rightly distinguished the difference calls their intellect or honesty (or both) into serious question. To be sure, there are many Jewish folk, secular and religious, who are against political zionism - indeed Albert Einstein co-wrote a NYT piece lashing out at the political zionists as terrorists - and he was once asked to be President of Israel but turned it down (he also had something to do with physics i hear)
Stop lying "Isa".
Memo Pinzon he sounds like a gay man . But he isnt . Just an observation😐
TV is dead. TV can't give use nearly 2 hours of unscripted, unedited discussion between leading thinkers. If TV even exists in 10 years, it will be for live sports only. We are living in a genuinely Gutenberg moment :-)
I never watch tv, I don't have enough time to get to all Dr. Peterson's videos!
No reason that sport can't be streamed online either
You are correct :-)
Jamie Young : In terms of CZcams yessss, otherwise it is more a Badgenberg time;)
Tropical Garden: Infantilizing of students is also due to permanent control over the mobiles etc.
Social media throws us back to ancient times,
instead of fostering our unbound communications, to times when tribes were the ultimate state of importance. Or even worse, hence before, members of tribes were much more divers and had to hush and bounce under the ruler. Our new tribes though, are composed of unquestioned, uniform individuals, seeking oneness in a narrow corner, being then incapable and afraid to hear different aspects of the whole, reacting aggressively towards other views, hence not being trained to do so. Narcissism as replacement for true depth and aggression due to unfitness by integrating novelties and alternative aspects of the whole cake.
Aggression as side effect of fear, knowing instinctively about the potemkin village they live in, knowing there is more than their narrow idea land, but still choosing non harming pampering ideas of over simplicity.
So social media is in large parts an unsocial destructer, divider, separator and a luciferic ego-monster-machine with hysterical outbursts of overblown nothings, pushing us back even to pretribal times, the propaganda of their inventors shrill countering.
Jordan sees these things lot clearer than the other two, still trying to be overly differentiated, blurring so their analysations. Too bad.
The leftist postmodernism, with its sponge brain effects, by denying facts as facts was paving the grounds of disorientation, not helpful now to mindfully orientate in the endless universe of the net, where too many are lost in disorientation, finding then a shaky home in these poison incompetence bubbles.
Interesting thought. And then the CZcams algorithm is like the new TV guide. I'm sure I watch more minutes of CZcams vs. shows on television.
I find these discussions "delicious" - thank you Doc, and Prof Haidt is ear-candy too.
~ greetings all from South Africa ~
The level of analysis between these three is absolutely STAGGERING.
Why didn't they have professors like this back in the 80's? (hahaha) Seriously, the ability to catch Dr' Peterson's lectures are a close second (all these years later...)
I wouldn't have known about Dr. Haidt were it not for Jordan Peterson. Since learning of him several months ago I have enjoyed all of his books (as well as Dr. Peterson's of course.)
Funny. I was just conversing about this book last night with classmates in my Sociological Statistics class (No, not all people who study social phenomenon have devolved into madness...Although, many do work hard to drive me out). I am a great admirer of your work. I do have a critic, though. When I came to college (as a new grandmother) 5 1/2 years ago, academics laughed in my face when I tried to warn them that their systems were not prepared to deal with this generation of students. They laughed when I said that there was a small but strong, puritanical movement to end gender. They laughed when I said that, if we didn't do something then, it would blow up. Any mother, who has had to deal with vicious, uptight PTA bullies could have told you this was coming. But you wouldn't listen because, apparently, studying human development by mindfully gestating and raising four humans to adulthood, while focusing all of your attention on the sustainable flourishing of the current and future generations of my progeny, isn't as serious as a Ph.D. Pfft! I'm 5-6 more years to a Ph.D., at least, and I will (most likely) have to remain in poverty to be able to focus my attention on my research and learning. (I am uncertain that the academy or the West has that long) I'm not trying to be adversarial but if you keep leaving women who chose motherhood as their career out of these conversations (as if constantly being challenged by brilliant young humans didn't enhance our ability to reason), you are going to continue to be baffled by where these things came from.
Mama don't preach...
Just kidding. Go right ahead.
Thats like saying we should listen to baseball pitchers critiques on newtonian mechanics...
Actually, Jordan Peterson’s analysis of pathological matriarchal psychology in education and especially among gender studies teachers/students has provided get insights for me regarding the prevalent ideology among students and a sizeable portion of contemporary Western society.
Not exactly.
"get insights"?
"It is not about creating an intellectual space! It's about creating a home here!"
lol
You're supposed to be our ADVUKIT!
"Yeah!! Remember you have to pay rent though!! To keep the home comfortable and stuff."
Love you Dr. Peterson
JustBeREAL I know right?!
This is great content, despite the audio quality. Thank you Dr.Peterson. Loved having you out in Saskatchewan. Please do come back again.
That's a nice and clean room you've got there Jordan :)
Hotel
Excpet for the towel on the lamp shade on the left
@@nashton9964 lol...he had lobster for lunch...messy
He made the bed and everything.
Those Marriott cleaners really have their lives sorted.
That which doesn't kill me outright only makes me sharper, but not stronger. I'd say it makes you more brittle. Everyone has a breaking point and a boiling point. Baseline awareness is the calm state I return to after anger, sadness or excitement. "Sharpen a blade too much and it will blunt." -- Lao Tzu
Your words and philosophy doesn't only serve for those who are lost but also for those who want to achieve small goals and challenges every day, for those who want to be better than yesterday, but not as good as tomorrow.
Thank you, Dr. Peterson.
Here's to 1970s latch key life - kicking the can, playing with matches, kissing neighborhood girls, listening to Bay City Rollers and Blondie, and staying out after dark 😎
When the payoff for being a victim is so high, it's difficult to accept PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY. It's time to run a new program. THANKS SO MUCH FOR ALL YOU DO!
“Personal responsibility” is a half-baked notion of responsibility typical of psychology quacks who themselves like to doctor you, make you dependent on them, cancelling personal responsibility. “The Pathological Family” and “A Just Measure Of Pain” touch on that, as well as Scheler’s “Ressentiment”.
Thank you so much for this. I have 2 young daughters, and my oldest who is almost 10 began having anxiety attacks a few months ago. It seemed impossible to me that this could be happening. We've already spent thousands on therapy with moderate results. I'm so grateful that these articles, videos and book can give us some practical things to try in terms of how we treat our children in order to prevent further issues and hopefully alleviate current ones. Thanks again gents you are doing great work.
Yes! Been waiting for you to cover the new book!
23:15 I had no idea that serfdom in Russia was abolished at nearly the same time as slavery in the US. Its such a pull to learn more history when I hear obscure (to me) facts like that.
It's not a coincidence that both were made obsolete at the same time steam power and railroads were coming to power.
And soviet regime re-introduced serfdom in 1932 to prevent peasants from running from villages because of hunger - peasants didn't have internal passports so they were unable to move to another village or town or even travel without permission. In 1967 about 37% of soviet population were without passports. Peasants were allowed to get passports only in 1974 and this process finished in 1981and they still had to get permission to move. Peasants who were members of communal farms (kolkhoz) also didn't receive salaries until 1966 and only received some food and a bit of money (about 1/10th of factory worker income) from collective farm income.
There are more prisoners in the U.S. now than there ever were in the gulags. How do explain that? Geo Group, Core Civic, and the CCA have overtaken the government. You live in a corporatocracy, and Peterson is a tool for RW thinktanks and policy mills. Read Dark Money by Jane Mayer
History is Synonymous with Truth. Why do you think you live in a culture that doesn't care about it.
And "propiska" institute as a social phenomena still exists in some post-soviet countries, where most of the time you can't move, say, to the capital city, without a) being married to that city dweller, b) buying property, c) some other mostly corrupt schemes, because "propiska" will give you access to free, albeit shitty, healthcare where you live, school and kindergarden access for your kids etc.
I am so happy I got to see you last night in Cincinnati, phenomenal show!
I love how engaged you all are in the conversation and how interested you are in exploring and discussing the subject matter. Really great stuff!
I would happily listen to the three of you talk for several more rounds. This was really enlightening
Re: PTSD rehab, "desensitization" is the word I think he was looking for. It's also what I do with dogs struggling with the same. Repetitive exposure without catastrophic results (even better, coupled with positive results) deletes the negative response.
Still energised from the Dublin show. Godbless from Ireland !
Dr Peterson, thanks for taking the time to CONTINUE working, even though you're out all over the world giving lectures for your book. You continue to impress. You make me wish I was working on something I thought was worthwhile instead of wasting my time doing nothing for the last few hours of the night.
So many topics and talking points covered in such a short span. I definitely have more reading ahead of me. Thanks, you three.
Thank your Dr. Peterson!
The idea that people get more conservative as they get older is shifting a bit as well. It could be related to the idea that people are lengthening the time they live with their parents and delay responsibility.
Excited for this one. Thank you Mr.Peterson for informing us.
I absolutely love when you engage with people about raising children. You need to talk with Stefan again.
Very much enjoyed your talk last night in Cincinnati
An incredible talk
Haha i just saw him in cleveland. It seems like he is an endless fountain of knowledge that never sleeps. Im not sure how he does it
His room is CLEAN!
I read videos - reading keeps me detached and more awake - my experience, great info Dr. Peterson!
I can’t believe we have the ability to eavesdrop into a conversation with these men. I know they posted it purposely but these riveting conversations are often in private at a university or behind closed doors. I feel very privileged. Thanks to all of you.
This has spread to Denmark!
"You couldn't invent a more counter-productive mental health movement and institute it on campus if you set out to design it." - JBP
I believe that's because it is all by design. What better way to usher in your own world order than to make your subjects hyper offended by simple truths?
Cause nanny & pappy gubermunt will save you my wittle dahlings!
Manufacture problems; impose solutions...
Ya, i heard that to!
Whose new world order?
@@ArkticDark The borderless, egalitarianism NWO.
Aka...MARXISM.
The slow, pleased smile that spreads across the face that arrives with a curious anticipation and a sense of rightness is what happens when you wake up to a Doc JBP upload. 😊
Well since I have your ear Dr Petersen I’ll keep it short. Thank you for kicking my minds ass out of the gutter where anger, like a drug kept me physically going but mentally stagnant. I told you too briefly at Westbury that your lecture on the Abrahamic stories helped me a lot. Wish I used my 15 sec with you wisely.
Lukianoff is dead on. Liberals are convinced that they are open-minded, but are in fact extremely closed-minded and self-righteous.
I sure hope Chuck Palahniuk is listening to this because ONE of the routes of solving the problem you put forward is actually writing a captivating narrative, which scientists cannot do.
We are watching the death of post modernism. We need a new artistic trend and creators who tell us stories that can raise us, updated by what we know about the world. We dont need more graphs and papers and research.
Novels and fiction writing is powerful but don't think that scientists aren't telling stories in a different format. They may use graphs or data but they are painting that within the narrative they are telling. That is what theory is. The arts are powerful and beautiful but it's all working together to create the stories we tell ourselves about the world. Myself, I keep up on the community of science, I don't often read fantasy or fiction, yet with someone like you, can often pick up on the same shifts. That's because stories are stories.
If Chuck P. Is the the narrator of the future, it will be a fucking strange and quirky world indeed.
😂 how laughable that artists have been corrupted by d left 😭😢
Thank you Dr. Peterson, for sharing this most important discussion. Much respect and love.
A fantastic conversation - I found it so very enriching, balanced, useful, grounding and enlightening.
"How did we get here?" When I returned to university in my 50s to do masters studies in political science, I was shocked that my professors discouraged students from discussing certain ideas not because they were disproven, but because even if true, they were considered to cause harm. For example, examining "national character" as a factor in German history was discouraged because that kind of thinking "causes wars."
I stepped back and took a hard look at what was going on. This was twenty years ago, well before the current situation. They were not yet pushing the everything-is-power line of analysis. But even then, I saw that everything had become relativistic, and the idea of Truth was subject to fear of consequences. Why had fear prevailed ? Was it at some visceral level a response to the possibility of nuclear war? Or was it because the professors sensed that our technological environment had become so human-created, so media-oriented, that we were in in danger of falling into a hall-of-mirrors, into self-reifying feedback loops -- and "truth" was dangerous that way ? Was it dangerous because the young people had become so very image-conscious that their identities were externalized, unballasted by inner values ?
And those young people from that educational era are now the PARENTS of this generation. Perhaps the young people today are actually, truly very vulnerable. I know I cannot have a conversation about ideas with any of my grandchildren.
Wow Dr Peterson, you are looking very healthy . Good to see .
Thank you for the new upload Dr Peterson, my girlfriend and I are greatly looking forward to seeing you in Manchester, England later this year. Your a truly inspiring figure in our lives.
The one youtube channel where no one complains about audio quality, because hearing what's being said is far easier than true understanding
Great discussion, but starting @ 18 minutes, I respectfully disagree with their position that cultural Marxist ideas are not spreading to other academic disciplines. Just read Campus Reform and The College Fix every day to see articles about these ideas being pushed in the science, math, and engineering departments. Also, most colleges force every student to take courses in "diversity" as part of their general education credits in order to graduate - no matter what their major. My son is applying to colleges now and many honors programs admit students based on their answers to essay questions about diversity, rather than on academic achievement such as GPA and SAT scores. This is even happening in some STEM Honors programs. For just one example check out the essay questions for Penn State's Millennial Scholars (STEM Scholars) Program: www.millennium.psu.edu/ Penn State also just appointed Tonya Peeples the College of Engineering's "inaugural Associate Dean for equity and inclusion." It's not just Penn State. This is happening everywhere.
The CZcams channel of the Royal Society in the UK goes 100% sociologist whenever it talks about a female scientist. The science would be completely ignored if it wasn't mentioned at the beginning when giving titles.
Downright communism - you could only move ahead in society if you recited dutifully the "party's bible". Anyone who didn't believe in it, was sure to fall in the garbage bin of any respectable institution - this was the clan's way to ensure than only its own ideology had the right to survive and propagate.
I can attest to this as I am in the education program at my college. A number of prerequisite courses necessary to become a K-12 teacher are basically applied Social Justice.
manuforever143 yup, it’s actually in curriculum documents in some districts as outcomes now too. They literally say you don’t need to lear many of the key strategies to learn to read or basic math facts as long as you do good for society. Sjw outcomes are all about big projects where it doesn’t matter if kids really learn any facts as long as they learn the act of being a protestor, dissident, take action, etc.
Times are scary.
I'm in academic mathematics and I've seen/heard no such thing. We're all autistic and can't be bothered to study anything outside of our narrow scope of interest :p
It seemed fairly obvious to me that social media is behind the rise in not just depression and anxiety but also the rise in easily offended and sensitive people being emboldened to censorship. I deleted my facebook account but still use instagram for some reason: after I deleted my facebook my depression and anxiety became much more manageable. I was diagnosed with bipolar 2 when I was a teenager and was highly medication resistant. I decided to never take pharmaceutical medication for depression or anxiety ever again, as every drug I tried only made my symptoms worse, often far worse. I don’t know if this is analagous to this problem of social media, but it seems to me that the spike in depression and anxiety fed by dopamine re-programming is often just an easy ‘fix’ for people to prolong not having to deal with themselves and their problems, much like how anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds treat symptoms and not the cause. The fakeness that these social media sites encourage in people seems indicative of a pernicious system designed to regulate moods much like how drugs are being used to treat depression: a quick and easy way to feel better, but in the long run only perpetuates and even strengthens people’s deeper rooted problems.
Time to sit back and enjoy ...
One contributing factor to modern helicopter/permissive parenting is social media as parents are frightened of being called out and shaped in front of the whole world. My sister is a single mother and any time she has to punish her son in public (usually just by telling him off) people will reach for their camera phones to record what a terrible person she's being even when the kid obviously needs more discipline.
Plus all these loonies who call the cops on parents just for letting their kids play alone int he backyard. We have enacted something of a surveillance regime over parents, and it's enforced chiefly by pillory.
Rolf Hartmann I got slapped as a child. Did it affect me? Sure, I learned not to do ‘it’ again. Boundaries. I wasn’t abused. My parents loved me so they made sure I appreciated there were consequences for my actions. So I didn’t slide into something where the rest of my life was determined by carelessness
I agree with you. Its more like police-helicopter parenting. Crazy social pressure. I know cool parents who understand that where we live is perfectly safe for their kids to go out and about on their own as they did in the 80s, but they don't let their kids do it because "it's a different time". ie some asshole will call the cops or whatever.
I'd like to point something out from my experience of university. These professors are exceptions - the truth seekers. I dont think most of us consider the university, at least what it's become, as a truh seeking endeavor because it so much resembles a competitive game. You cant underestimate how much the setup affects our perceptions as students because the way it is set up with marking and testing and scoring and status puts all of the truth in a scoring context where the aim very quickly becomes "find out what (or how) the teacher thinks, and spit it back at them because that gives you good marks". This colours everything to some degree, from elementary school on. Truth seeking profs are rare. Many dont encourage free thought. Many punish it. Which makes some sense because it is hard to encourage challenge from your students and maintain order at the same time. Most arent brave enough, and no wonder.
Ps. Im talking about the arts and humanities, where subjective interperetation is more of a real issue.
Hi. Just wanted to say I’ve been listening to your audio book on your tips / rules for life and have found it very enlightening. Thanks 🙏.
Watching this in a couple hours! Been waiting on this!
Please have Nassim Nicholas Taleb and Alain de Botton
Taleb is a fraud and would be crushed by Peterson
Thero: Taleb is one of those that is in love with his own intellect. He is very anti-science when it comes to GMOs for example. He actively blocks people who disagree with him and is a very petty man. Taleb sets the rules up so heads he wins, and tales you lose with his Carpenter Fallacy.
He has good ideas. His book Antifragile is really good. But as a man, himself, he is a 20th of what JBP is and would no doubt go on the attack when he realizes he is out of his league when talking with Peterson.
Please no Alain. He makes millions selling broken vases and turning great philosophers into bumper stickers and trying to sell his audiences on atheism.
@@nunolassousa hitler wrote books too. So does alex jones. Please try again. Taleb cooked his credibility by courting pseudoscience and fallacy. If he told me the sky was blue I would seek a second opinion.
Alan Buffoon the EU remainer lib-tard? Why not A C Grayling in his tin foil hat?
I love you Jordan Peterson. Good things upon you :)
These are all very intelligent and informed men. I have followed Haidt for some time and wrote a paper in University based on Lukianoff's work, so I appreciated this conversation.
Three of my favorite intellectuals! My night is made!
Psychology of color. Jordan's earthtone clothing and wall background makes me feel ambivalent and distant. The room Mr, Haidt is in has a relaxing and trusting indigo/purple background. One man wearing a white shirt and the other wearing black in addition to the colorful painting on the wall suggests openness to contrasting ideas. I make this observation apart from the content of their speech which I found fascinating.
Mr. Peterson you are way too practical and strike way too many nerves for them not to come after you( "them" being exactly who you think I'm talking about and i dont need troubles being a single father so I will not elaborate). please continue your work you truly are a voice of reason of a generation of indoctrination and may God be with you!
Thank you on behalf of me and my two sons. I wish I had arguments like the ones you are formulating in the long time i was lost in confusion and in lack of words. The thing is that we need that what unifies us, and strengthen the connections close to us.That what is in reach! People who feed from polarisation are astranged,and enemies of the ideal that we have more in common than what devides us. The left is acting absurd! Barocque! In this age it is the most important task to go into your own family and maybe your community and work there. And in our time of internet counsiousness we have to define what "your own world" is ,and find that it is NOT the whole world! See that being engaged in the whole world is hybris,and at least grandios and patological. What can I do to be an inspiration to myself and those close to me? is the question, not, What can I do to end all misery in the world.
Just saw you in Cleveland Dr Peterson. Great talk. I was shocked at how such a large audience sat in silence as they focused on and digested the material.
Really good experience and I would recommend to those who havent attended a lecture to check one out if you get the chance.
Thank You from a 71 year old Liberal that just migrated back to the US after 22 years in Belize, even gaining nationality there. You have explained the nuttiness that I have returned to.
Thanks to you and the other members of the Dark Web.
Intellectual Dark Web. The Dark Web is something else completely.
learn something every day. Thanks.
How the heck did you put up with Belize for 20+ years ? Astounding.
Moved to a peninsula that had no electric, phone etc -- just a couple of expats that sure learned a lot. Lived on rainwater for 29 years.
I had a small disability pension and lived on that. Also , after we got infected with electricity, I also did laundry.
I also spent a lot of time in my hammock reading and enjoying the product of te country.
Opps - I also started a store under my canal front house then when I had enough customers, moved it oy to 'The Road", worst road in Central America - Years of entertainment watching vehicles dissolve slowly.
Dr. Peterson have you ever studied the history of Israel? I have a decent enough understanding of your Christian values and i have been greatly inspired by your lectures on the subject but there are tragedies being committed by people who take the Bible literally. This is not anti Semitic. It is anti Zionism. Please I would love your insight on the subject of Israel. Thank you keep up the good work.
It's sad we have to add a non-antisemitic disclaimer anytime we want to raise serious concerns about zionists policies (which are themselves racist - just look at the new controversial Jewish Nation State law for instance). Radicals will not accept your sincerity and foist antisemitic motives on you in a bid to silence legitimate criticism and strip you of dignity. The problem however is not that people take the bible literal, it's that they are cherry picking parts and distorting what it says. For instance, the old testament makes clear that receiving the land under the Mosaic covenant was conditional on keeping the whole law (impossible since 70 AD) or be cursed and even that was a temporary arrangement since the original promise to the seed of Abraham (ie, the seed of the woman from Gen 3.15 being the Messiah) was free of such conditions and was given by grace because Abraham's righteousness through faith in God, not law-keeping; Hosea ch 1 anticipates those who were considered God's people would no longer be His people and those who were not His people would be considered His people; Jeremiah 31.31 plainly states a new covenant would replace the old one and Psalm 118.22 indicates the Messiah would be rejected by Israel -- all this and more led to the kingdom being taken from the people of the old covenant and given to the people of the seed of promise (Matthew 21.42-46!!) who are converted under the new covenant and become a new nation colloquially called spiritual Israel or as Paul called it the "Israel of God" a "new creation" (Gal 6.15-16); flesh and blood (ie, genetics and DNA) cannot inherit the kingdom of God (1Cor 15.50); one must be spiritually reborn/born from above in order to see the kingdom of God (John 3.3) - it's not about race it's about grace, but the racist zionists ruling Israel cannot tolerate this and must make everything about racism because they are extremely racist and if you oppose them then it's because you're an antisemitic racist, etc. Not allowing peaceful redress will ensure a great holocaust as foretold in both old and new testaments and the blood of their own people will be on their heads, save a remnant as was always the pattern since the days of Moses in the wilderness and even he foretold this.
Enjoyable podcast Jordan. Thanks for your effort in making this one happen.
I have seen anti-anxiety in my own life. Moving to a new city, I was fearful of going to new neighborhoods, especially distant suburbs. When I had to, I got clear instructions and traveled to the distant suburb. This was an accomplishment that gave me courage next time I had to travel there. So doing things that you are afraid of actually makes you stronger and more capable. Giving messages that you are weak and fragile keeps you from advancing as a mature human being.
haidt is the bomb
The H bomb?
very funny. the height of humor. truly, the haidt of humor
Sound quality is abysmal, but at least the content is really good.
The Doctor is busy and i appreciate his sharing at any cost
Respect Dr.Perterson.
I love seeing/listening to these discussion. They are great to reflect on myself and the people around me and form an opinion on the subjects discussed. Thnx for the upload :-)
I'll bet you some that the isolated island Tumblr and such sites are hubs for female anxiety and outrage.
Also,- the time boys generally spend playing videogames these days are spent by girls on makeup, social media and comparison.
The big factor here is that the internet has increased isolation and sexual competitiveness among girls, all the while many of the boys play with themselves through games.
The common factor here is that the Internet has replaced a large part of societies face-to-face interactions.
Why don't boys make sure the girls don't feel less than or judged? They don't. They rape drunk teenagers and video the crime laughing and joking. If called on their crimes, suddenly it's the boys who are the victims and the girl who deserves their abuse. No wonder suicides of girls have increased
Hi Dad!
This is such a refreshing conversation on this subject matter. I feel validated and empowered as a man when I listen to almost any interview with Dr Jordan Peterson. Powerful yet self evident and a growing awareness that what is self evident seems to be a threat in modern civilization standards.
I found it refreshing how much these three chaps actually care for others and also where this insidious March with the left is taking us and why.
You are a breath of fresh air amongst the traffic of the internet. Keep up the fine work gents.
That's a beautiful suit.
Better than Sargon's
Won't you be my neighbor?
His tie dimple skills look like a lobster could do better
They all are, would you like the name of his Tailor in Jermyn St. ?
I am a Mother with guilt for the damage I may have caused my son of 26. We have not spoke for 3 years by his choice.
We are all pretty much capable of having children. It would be sweet if they came with a personal handbook.
As young as three months old my son had a spirit that would battle till he got what he wanted. whatever it may be. It went on till 5 many lasting up to three hours. Needless to say I gave in the majority of time. I love him and respect the space he is needing with hopes that he will figure out whatever it is that will help him to grow up.
However, I am very close with my grandson who is 9 years old today and I will buy this book and read it first. Then for anyone who may educate him in the years to come.
Thank you, 💕 I really enjoyed this informative conversation...I could comment on more on the wide range of topics covered, but I must go life is calling.📣
islanti
I take responsibility for my actions and I am open and try to change any part of this personality that is in need of correction. Being we are blind to our own shortcomings. Please explain, how I should grow up?
At 33 years of life, I decided to be receptive looking for any change I needed make to become a better living soul in this earthly fleshy body.
I am sorry for everything I have, or have not done. I have expressed this to him on more than one occasion. I do not hold grudges, I love him unconditionally and will be more than happy to have a relationship him when he is ready. I thank you💕 for any time you may spend to explain to me what I need to do in order to grow up....
Your talking about the proposed line on the "left", when it can spiral out of control, makes a lot of sense to me. When someone degrades a person's idea without deep thinking, or conversation, has always felt intrinsically wrong to me. Great discussion!
Insightful. This was a great, refreshing angle on the important topics at hand.
You are all wrong. My generation has been denied what the Germans called Heimat. Home. Denied by access to an actual home, and by extension, a family. Its bloody obvious. Have any of you been denied access to a small piece of land, either through stable rent or, better, ownership? It all begins with the potential to have a stable environment. Relationships of long-term stability are downstream from this. Thats why even poor people in Africa are happy, if they can have a stable home. The decorations and appliances are useless without the stability.
Did you grow up living in your dad's car?
this had to be said . thank you
Jordan B Peterson dishing out knowledge like we're all on welfare. 😄😄
Projecting much?
Is that Celldweller?
Mental food stamps
Take his theological studies and Darwinian assumptions with some serious grains of salt. More and more of the technical papers on evolutionary biology are calling out fundamental problems with the very thing Darwin was thought to have solved (development of entirely new forms and functions of organisms); it's now only propped up out of tradition and mainly politics.
But let's not throw away the baby together with the bathwater. Darwin's work will always remain there as fundamental. Whatever we may be discovering right now, or wil be discovering still, none could have happened without his attempts at bringing sense inside a previously senseless world of living things.
I bought the book on account of this interview, and found it to be a brilliant analysis of philosophical and psychological trends in the college milieu. I recommend it to everyone, but particularly to parents who have children attending universities - it will open your eyes as to what your children have to deal with, and how you can help them counter the negative effects of a variety of influences. I particularly appreciate that the authors have included chapters that discuss solutions to the problems. It's not enough to analyze the jungle - you've got to discern the path out.
I'm a 37 year old female and I find your work to be facinating and genius. Good work 😊
The three of you eloquently grope to find complex rational motivations when students adhere to unsupportable views. I am confused why a specific issue is never raised. I do think that Camille Paglia almost made it in her interview, but there was no follow-through. Students are easily seduced by intellectual laziness. If there is no canonical narrative, then there is no reason to learn about history. If there are a myriad of disqualifying sins, then there is no point to studying any analysis of previous generations (as the world was dominated by white, male, yada yada). Little wonder that post-modernist perspective is so popular. It reduces all academic success to activism and self expression.
Moreover, this attraction to intellectual laziness is hardly new. Back in the 1970's, I remember reading an article describing to STEM students who found themselves unwittingly trapped in a required course within a politically charged humanities department. The strategy outlined was to enter the class as a somewhat boorish chauvinist, and then feign a mid-semester revelation where one suddenly converts to the professor's more liberal viewpoint with mildly religious zeal. It was a sure-fire way to ace the course, and then get on with one's life. (I realize that synopsis uses modern language and terminology not used in the original article.)
All that said, I am a huge fan of your channel. By the time I reached university, it had devolved from education to training. It is inspiring to hear the cogent presentations that I should have been exposed to at that time. Keep up the excellent work. It is very much needed. Your vids also helped me rebound strongly from some negative and depressing experiences. I'm now much more productive and happy, and accomplishing some big goals. Much thanks for that as well.
" feign a mid-semester revelation " ... heh. Wouldn't work with me, though. If there's one thing I can't stand, it's sycophantic students. To the limited extent my grading is subjective (we're talking maybe 2% of the final grade), they'd have blown it right there.
A am genuinely happy you take that attitude. After reading the article, I took the tack of carefully avoiding humanities courses with only the required exceptions, which were, thank goodness, well taught. Yes, I probably tossed the baby out with the bathwater too. However, I had no taste for being tempted into intellectual dishonesty. The article's advice was of its time. I doubt you can see it through the eyes of a prospective student or instructor 45 years ago.
Your second paragraph made me laugh out loud haha...so easy to picture this! Honestly I'm ticked off about the money I had to spend (with interest to repay) on classes that had nothing to do with my goals. A degree ought to be streamlined, and all the basics should be covered by the time a kid is 17/18 years old. It's RIP OFF, frankly. You want to be an engineer? Great- don't force history, English, economics, any of that stuff into the degree- bare bones, practical. That's how it ought to be, IMO, because as a society, our kids should *already* have a basic understanding of the other stuff.
Can't I just want to live in a place with only people of my own race and not mind other people? Is there ANYTHING wrong with that? It's not about superiority or resentment, I just want to live around only people who are like myself.
Life's not like that though.
Be specific?
geoffrey g, not only are you committing the genetic fallacy, but what you're saying isn't even accurate. life has been like that for most groups for most of history.
@@seanoconnor8730,
Life evolves, as we have become more aware, we see plainly that tribalism is not the way to perceive the world on an individual level. It makes large societies devolve, it weakens the social fabric of society. I understand where the person who originally made the comment comes from. I perceived a fear of the unknown in the comment. Whether I'm correct or not is beside the point. This fear is natural to humans, and one must have the courage to see through it, or it distorts ones reality. That's integration, and adaptation.
Simply, I wasn't ignoring tribalism and it's pit falls. I was just pointing out life isn't like that anymore, we make it like that if it still is. Diversity of people = Diversity of thought= wider perspectives + patience and humility= faster we find wisdom and truth.
I like that equation, and that equation is predicated on patience as well as, adopting the pursuit of Wisdom as ones highest of values.
Respectfully speaking, I think you jumped to some conclusions here.
Only if they agree. But they belong to this world just as much as you. If living is too complicated for you then it is you then making your space responsibly is incumbent on you. What I will not abide is your desires stepping on the lives of my fellows.
This is a great summary of the arguments that you and others defending individual responsibility and freedom of speech have made over the course of the last couple years.
Great talk. The long form reveals more unique info. than in other Haidt/Lukianoff interviews. Thanks!
First! Thank you Dr. Peterson!
Joshua Haider 10 hours ago, how?
BSkeptical Yes thats... thats a little spooky
Joshua Haider patreon
True Born Son Of Liberty Thanks for clarifying!
Nah, just scoped it out on the Professor Against Political Correctness playlist, saw it had no views... couldn't resist.