Medieval Slavic Navy & the 626 Avar Siege of Constantinople
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- čas přidán 5. 02. 2021
- My second channel M. Laser Random- / mlaser2 where I just upload random videos from game-plays to vlogs and more.
My Patreon- / mlaser
My Twitter- / mnlaser
Video scripts with all my sources are available for free on my Patreon.
For extra historical information and corrections see the pinned comment.
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Duke tier Patreons
-Sahni
-Jambbo
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#Avars #Slavs #Byzantium
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Extra Information & Sometimes Corrections if Needed !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
0:05 As always there's exceptions to the rules. As I said Early Slavs where landlocked and no one has ever thought of the early Slavs as very maritime oriented, as almost all the sources we have talk of them as a ground fighting force. However, as already stated there are exceptions, the Siege of Constantinople is one, the later Rus sieges of the city and raids around the Black and Caspian sea are another. These Rus sieges were mostly conducted by Norseman but they without a doubt had some Slavs with them as well. Another is the aforementioned siege of Thessaloniki and lastly would be the 9th century Dalmatian pirates. Also the Dalmatians on top of the Slavic element still had a sizeable Latin presence. These again, however, where exceptions to the rule, early Slavs in general where never considered as a big naval force they where always primarily a ground fighting force which can be seen through the fact that unless combined with other people like Latin or Norse they always used simple dugout canoes.
0:34 I know this map isn't completely representative if you want more accurate history when it comes to the expansion/early history of the Slavs and etc. watch my Slavic Venetic connection video. czcams.com/video/eLrMjNtAy8M/video.html
1:04 more, (sea), is maybe old Germanic although disputed since both words could be from the same word of Indo-European origin, hence it wouldn't be a borrowed word in Slavic.
čln, челн, (boat) - Slavic, from the old slavic word meaning “single stump” i.e. dugout canoe. This is is one of the few words in Slavic that seems to be original giving credence to the idea that Slavs had mostly just dugout canoes in early middle ages.
Also another borrowed sea related word is the Eastern Slavic word for seashell (раковина), "rakoviny", it came into Slavic through German which in turn got it from Latin. "rakoviny, rakva" means coffin or cancer in other Slavic languages. This points to the duality of the word which means it was definitely borrowed.
There's also Slavic 'anchovy', 'ancovi' (a type of sea fish), the word origins are unknown, maybe Greek or Latin? But not Slavic so also a borrowed word.
We could spend ages dissecting all the borrowed sea related words in Slavic, basically there's a lot of them.
1:10 The mentions come from the Miracle of St. Demetrius where he writes that after the unsuccessful siege of Thessaloniki in 617, slavs combined multiple of their dug out canoes into one and sailed raiding the local Greek islands for 2 years.
2:33 Nicephorus. Short History . Edited and translated by Cyril Mango. Washington, DC, 1990.
5:16 There were also other minor people groups involved in the Avar army but these where the main ones.
6:10 Some sources say that Heraclius send some cavalry to bolster the defense of the city but this is attested only by two sources while others never mention it so it is disputed if it ever happened.
7:13 "Gog" along with "Magog" are words taken from the bible which have been used variously by medieval historians but in this case "Gog" was used in the way I describe it.
7:30 Syncellus, who wrote about the siege, made this connection with the biblical gog as to argue that Byzantium was the new holy land defending from the gog (who where the Avars) just like the holy land of old was defending from the gog and magog.
7:51 I gave multiple colors to the Avar army to symbolize the multicultural nature of the army. Blue are Slavs, Grey are Germanic tribes, Green are Bulgars, and Pale Origin are Avars. The Pale White are Persians.
9:30 There's a debate about whether the Slavs actually brought the canoes over land but if the sources are consulted carefully I think it is obvious they did bring them not sale them. Specially since Chronicon Paschale strictly mentions the slavs "brought the minoxyls with them", they did not sale them there they "brought" them there.
13:55 We don’t know if the Byzantines were waiting for them and planned the whole thing, we don’t know if everyone from the Persian army died. We don’t know much about this particular part of the story as the main sources we do have seem to be missing some pages.
There's a whole religious subplot to the siege that I didn't talk about. The Byzantines where convinced they won the siege only thanks to an intervention from the Virgin Merry, this created or at least reinforced a cult of the "Holy Mother" in the city and the orthodox church as the protector of the pious. After this siege the Virgin Merry also became to be viewed by the cities inhabitants as the protector of Constantinople. Merry replaced the long standing Greek tradition of the goddess Athena (or her Roman counterpart) as being the protector of the city in ancient times. The siege was also the origin for the creation of the important Christian Orthodox hymn (at least according to legend) of Akathistos about the Virgin Merry and so was instrumental to the feast that goes with it 'Intercession of the Theotokos'. How exactly the siege connects to this hymn, the feast and the celebration of the 'Dormition of Mother of God' is still debated.
Video scripts with all my sources are available for free on my Patreon.
@@stipicaradic Small exceptions do not rule a make. Saying "No one has ever thought of the Slavs as being very maritime oriented before the 11th and 12th century" is very accurate. No one really has.
Besides I talk about the early Slavs as in 6th to 8th century not later 9th century. I also say Slavs learned a lot of sea faring from neighboring communities which they did. Dalmatians from the Romans, Eastern Slavs from the Rus, etc. By your logic people should also yell at me that I didn't mention the Rus naval expeditions which most certainly had some Slavs involved with them.
All these are very small exceptions to a greater Slavic world hence not many people have thought of the Slavs as very maritime oriented.
If your nationalistic brain is too small to understand the greater picture of Slavic history and get angry over small details that I have never denied just not mentioned (for I can't mention every exception in my video or we'll be here for ages) then I feel bad for you.
I am from Persia, thanks for information 🙏
Usually I don't comment on anyone's video but your content is superb so I am commenting on your video. Wow this video is fantastic. Every line is a point. Your channel deserve more subscriber. I regularly watch your videos from 7 years. As a old subscriber I want a help from you that please make a video on skanderbeg because I realised that only you can describe it nicely. As I know you from the old days, I think you will definitely make a video on this topic
@@kaushiksheshnagraj7176 I don't know anything about Skanderbeg plus it's not really an area of history a dabble in much. He might be mentioned in my early History of the Albanians video but I am probably not going to do a video solely on him.
@@MLaserHistory Okay. But thanks a lot for replying. Your videos are so stunning keep it up brother. I wish you gain 1 million subscriber by the end of this year.
Slavic Fun Fact: The Czechs and Slovaks while having a land locked country use AHOJ (AHOY) as their main friendly greeting.
the word "ahoj" didn't migrate from German into Czech, but the other way round. Bohemia had an tax-exempt freeport at the mouth of the Elbe river near Hamburg, which gave them access to the blue water ocean. And from there the word "Ahoj" spread to German sailors.
@@costamz3440Königsberg you mean
@@xeon39688'if your a german'
Bulgarian land army: badass cavalry
Bulgarian navy: literally logs
As someone who studied ancient and medieval navies, there's much more to the Slavic dugout than meets the eye. These were large trees cut down during the winter and the men would start construction during the spring. After they were hollowed and expanded, water strakes were added tied to the original log (given uneven expansion would expose the opening the water line), making the dugout more of a planked boat with a log as its keel and base. We know this from archeological sites in northern Poland and Czech Republic. Additionally the Slavs did tie dugouts together to haul and reconstructions show they can move 1.5 tones of cargo. My thanks to Waldemar Ossowski of Gdansk University and Sean McGrail for Early European Watercraft.
People were so witty and poetic back then.
Important to remember that it's mostly the ones that received an education and had roles that required excellent speechcraft (leaders, diplomats etc.) that you hear from. I doubt a Greek towny or a Slavic canoer would've come up with that kind of comeback. It's also worth noting that these quotes are translated, obviously, but also originate from languages that were spoken differently than they are today, giving them an archaic quality that may seem more poetic than today's speech, whilst being simply the way they spoke at the time.
It is relevant to mention that the Sasanians were much more proficient at siege warfare than the Avars were. So their inability to get to the other side of the Bosporus probably doomed the siege.
Yeah, it's not like the smaller Persian force would have made that much difference considering the Avars already had a lot of manpower. What the Khagan most certainly wanted was the expertise of the Persians in siege warfare.
@@MLaserHistory Though I wonder just how small it really was. It's commander, Shahrbaraz (who would later become the king of Persia for a few days). Was quite a big fish within the Persian ranks.
The Byzantines said it was 3000 men. Now trusting the Byzantines in stating accurate army size is never a good thing but it is almost certain they wouldn't say a lower number than it actually was so it would potentially be 3000 men max, and even this 3000 men would still be a small force compared to the whole Avar army.
The Byzantines (or Romans if you prefer) apparently opted for a rather harsh style of diplomacy. Starting from a sick burn at 12:55 and preceding to chopping off limbs and heads.
Great video BTW!
Actually it was quite weird. There where moments of total brutality intermixed with honor and chivalry. For example at the beginning of the siege the Khagan asked for corn (in the British sense of the word) for his army and as a sign of "good willed warfare" the Byzantines gave it to him. Most likely hoping to get on the good side of the Khagan and maybe even negotiate peace. Also before every diplomatic embassy with the Khagan the Byzantines would send out wine and bread to the Khagan as a sign of good will before the meeting. On the other side the Khagan was always sure not to kill any enemy dignitaries so both sides practiced some sort of "honorable warfare" which makes the killing of the Persian diplomats that much weirder. After it happened the Khagan even in an ironic twist scolded the Byzantines for being so "dishonorable" even barbaric (said the barbarian).
@@MLaserHistory Wouldn't sending food and wine from a besieged city to an enemy army be a display of power, and roman-style bragging? Like "look, we aren't scared by you, and we have so much food we can share with you, have a nice picnic out there"
@@testtestesttest2746 That could be part of it but keep in the mind the Byzantines did it only after being asked by the Khagan to do so.
@@MLaserHistory when you say "corn in the british sense of the word" what do you mean? are you talking about modern day corn or more the style of medieval times back when it meant just about any sort of grain? because that wasnt just the british most of europe basically did the same thing
@@goranpersson7726 In current American English corn is synonymous with maize but in current British English corn means any kind of grain. Yes in the past in all version of English corn meant just grain but that's not the case anymore hence I think it's prudent to specify I meant the current British English definition of the word.
Guess I have to go play CK2 again...
Thanks for your hard work bringing this history forward for average people to learn about
dito
Bro I found your channel like 5 hours ago and am schocked how seriously underrated it is
Thank you :)
Me too! I just found it yesterday and since im a dutch history nerd, iam bingwatching all the 80 year war videos and i like the siege videos the most!
We are finally talking about the Last War of Antiquity! Based!
I heard it was so destructive that it helped Caliphate to conquer Middle East as both Byzantium and Sassanids were weakened
@@silesiaball9505 Definitely a part of it. That war is very impactful, is definitely deserves the nickname.
I always found funny how in modern Serbian language the word 'gusar' is translated as 'pirate' but the origin of the word 'gusar' is more akin to highwayman (a bandit or a soldier on a horse). This interesting term was adopted by some Europeans and transformed into 'hussar' to represent a light cavalry. I don't know why in Serbian, 'gusar' became a synonim for a pirate though.
@@user-cg2tw8pw7j I am not sure I understand what you're asking me?
@@user-cg2tw8pw7j if you're asking if Serbs are seafarers, then the answer is more no than yes. Historically there were some Serbian kingdoms on the sea of Adriatic but the presence of Venetian Duchy in the late middle ages basically made them dominant in the region with Ottomans there to rival them. Serbs and other ethnicities served as seamen on both sides as well as pirates and sea raiders, although Albanians are more famous for being dangerous pirates in those waters. Serbs were historically good imfantrymen and cavalrymen, both fielding heavily armored knights in the middle ages as well as light cavalry in the centuries after. Usually used as raiding parties and for harrassment by Austians and Hungarians in their wars with the Ottomans. It's basically same with almost all Balkan people. A hardy mountain and river valley dwelling simple farmers and herders. Most famously though, Serbs often fought guerilla style against the Ottomans, known as Hajduks. Although some of them were probably more akin to bandits, hajduk groups and uskoks were important part in the century long fight for freedom that Serbs fought against the Ottomans.
@@user-cg2tw8pw7j Oh, for sure my brother. We have, I believe several words that are of Persian origin as well as many Turkish and even some Arabic words. For example, we say sometimes "Mashallah" as "Mašala" although without the context in which Muslims say it. Another word that is of Persian origin is "jorgan". We pronounce letter "J" as english "Y". Jorgan means 'blanket', we also have other words that sure are of Persian origin.
@@user-cg2tw8pw7j indeed, all Slavic languages originate from Indo-European proto language. Although Persian and Slavic language had different history, the root of many words can be traced to same origins. Added to that, Serbs and other Balkan nations are close geographically to Iranian plateau as well as a historical connection. Balkan is the crossroads from Europe into the Middle East, even before Ottomans, this place was an important dot on the map, but with the Ottomans there are now cultural mixes. You know, there's so many sweets and food and like the way of life that has parallels in societies as far as Iran and other places in the Middle East.
Woah, so much information. You have delivered!
Great vydeo. Keep going whit these obskure topiks, its great and interesting.
This video was fantastic to watch! Please more
Thanks Mr. M. Laser!
Really nice
Thanks for the map help, I see you used it in this vid as well
I use it (although altered as you can see) in almost all of my videos. I really like the physical nature of it.
@@MLaserHistory it is good, for sure
Ah finally some Eastern Roman History or more fitting Eastern European Histroy in general and underrated too
My boy Khosrow II right here.
מתי יוצא הפרק הבא של הסדרה שלך?
The lord of trolling.
@@thefrenchkiwi9435 That's Khosrow I
@@yuval0658 אחרי שבועיים. אני תמיד הוציא את שני סרטונים בחודש.
@@SamAronow אה סבבה תודה. סדרה מעולה דרך אגב
i just love it!
Great video :)
To bo honest, i much prefer these topics than the ones of you newest video :)
100K :D So cool !
Nice video
Thank you
You're welcome, Emperor.
In Romanian 'AVAR' is a term used to describe frugal cheap selfish and avid for wealth individuals
Thank you.
Thanks
i saw your community post about the algorithm screwing you and I'm here now... I have never heard of this channel before that so at least the algorithm showed me the community post lol. Nice video
lol at least something I guess :)
Hope you enjoy the videos.
three layered wall of attack on titan: no
three layered wall of Constantinopole: yes
Could it be that word "more" (sea) was of Latin origin (mare)? Btw, you makes the most interesting videos on yt by far. I like how you don't stick to one theme, it makes every video fresh and bless to watch.
As I said in the pinned comment, most likely is that the word comes from an Indo-European word hence it wouldn't be a borrowed word but a word shared among the languages due to a common origin (also Latin). This is the main reason why I showed it being "disputed" in the video because Slavs could have just had the word since Indo-European times rather than borrowing it.
Oleg of Kyiv in 907: time to comeback boooiiiizzz.
Thanks for the video! I am squatting from joy 🙃
this is pog
7:20 a detail worth mentioning about the Gog from the Bible is that it's an army that comes from the north. Hence them interpreting this danger as Gog.
Referring to something in the bible as something of biblical proportion... love it!
Awesome video
Ps Was Gog the biblical son of Japhet son of Noe?
I don't think I am the best at explaining historical religious connotations so wiki should be better help here than me.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gog_and_Magog
This video is kinda fitting since I’m playing kingdom come deliverance rn
This siege would make for a great linear/semi open world game about a byzantine soldier/captain
finally someone talking about ancient Slavs, there is so little available online...
"Fleet"
Your editing is buttery smooth how did you learn it, what software is you don’t mind?
Vegas Pro
@@MLaserHistory thanks for your quick reply. Are there any resources you recommend for learning how to use it? How many hours does a low production video take to make?
@@ranro7371 I really don't know. I learned like 10 years ago by just messing around with stuff but I bet there are some tutorials on CZcams you can search for.
Nice
History i like it
What was the envisioned strategy the Avara had in using their siege towers? If they could somehow fill the moat and build a ramp OVER the first wall were they supposed to storm the second wall while fighting off or suppressing all the fire coming from the third wall? Then how do they get up and over the third wall from there? We're their towers as tall or taller then the third row of the walls? Seems like a suicidal plan from the beginning. If anyone knows what the plan of action was it how a tower was supposed to be of any use to begin with please fill me in.
You can download the full walkthrough on the official website
Hey laser where can I find your patreon or a link to it?
There's a link in the description of every video.
Probably a dumb question but even if the siege tower gets troops over the first wall, what’s the plan for the next layer?
I would love to answer but as a historian the sources don't talk about this so I have no idea. I guess ladders, or the siege towers are big enough to reach all the way to the main last wall, or the walls are connected (since the soldiers needed to travel between them somehow) so you basically fight through the passages between the walls. These are all guesses, I bet there's an actual specialist on siege warfare out there that knows much more about this.
you generally want to use scaling methods like siege towers and ladders to get up on the wall to hopefully win the fight over the gatehouse so you can simply let the rest of the army in. incase there are more walls after? you simply repeat the process
although you generally dont want to only rely on one way of breaching walls, you want sappers,catapults and wall scaling equipment not just one of the three although in a pinch catapults are the ones to go for since given time you will just reduce the walls to rubble
It's a bit difficult to follow narrative of barbarian poor in siege when avars could deploy siege weapon such as catapult and siege tower.
Maybe they're not as good as roman or persian but they are capable to breach fortified city beside siege has always been a difficult affair regardless who attacking if the defender aren't demoralized or tricked into surrender the defender usually either win or inflict large loss to attacker.
They weren't incapable of siege, I mean they did besiege and take over Sirmium, but comparably to everyone else they where much worse. Persians, Romans, even Germans where more skilled at siege warfare than Avars and Slavs were. This is one of the reasons why the Khagan wanted the Persians on his side of the Bosporus so badly. He didn't need the manpower, he needed their expertise.
good
2:06 Not, it's not "mostly Slavs", the Vlachs (Daco-Thraco-Romans) were also displaced by the Avars in the late 6th century-early 7th century, not just the Slavs.
Wow i didnt know that
This is usually the effect I want my videos to leave on people.
@@MLaserHistory thanks! best history teacher ever
One thing people need to keep in consideration is that all of this accounts come from the behalf of the conquerors as in the nomadic tribes that went on to pillage and plunder Eastern Europe and rarely from the actual indigenous people,as these tribes like the gepids never had to report their findings or deeds to anyone as they were free man lining there from millenia and didn't needed a written language.
Do you consider making Slovak subtitles ? I would appreciate it:)
I tried ones but it's surprisingly too much work. Plus I am a bit dyslexic so anything to do with languages and writing, no matter if I know both of them fluently, is an absolute mess when I try to translate.
Man since the new culture system in CK3 I'm so interested in all the medieval cultures, normadic poeple and so on.
czcams.com/video/TVeNTdV7pjA/video.html
0:48 how did you say that?
What do you mean ?
@@MLaserHistory how do you pronounce that word
OU it's just Slavic, it's weird. I mean there's sentence in my language with no vowels. "Strc prst skrs krk"
The actual Slavic names are Днепр/Dniepr /dɲestr/, Днестр/Dniestr /dɲestr/. English speakers tend to have trouble with simple consonant clusters like /pr/ /str/ word finally or /dɲ/ word initially, so they added an extra vowel to the words, and may fail to pronounce the initial /d/.
Slavic languages like Polish allow about 4 consonants in a row word finally or word initially (which is really nothing compared to Georgian, which allows about 8). However English also has some ridiculous consonant clusters of its own - strengths with /ŋkθs/ sixths with /ksθs/...
Jesus we in Croatia still somethimes say "korablja" (korab) when reffering to an old ship and word "more" is used by all slavs around us
Whether "more" is from old Germanic or it is just a common indo-European word meaning it evolved in both languages simultaneously is disputed but "korab" is 100% a borrowed word from Greek.
@@MLaserHistory Yes, but we kind of "croatized" it a bit.
Well, as a Slavic nation, I heard the story that in the middle of the 6th century people tried to conquer Constantinople together with the Avars.....but it seems to me that the Avars only used the Slavic to conquer the city, or am I wrong? Where then it was a terrible defeat for the Avars
Pls battel of Petrovaradin and translate serbish
Wow, a siege where the defenders win. That is *really* rare in history
@@nightvvisher7713 no i mean like its rare in general for sieges to turn out well for the defenders
@@nightvvisher7713 yeah ik that they stay behind the walls because they have better chances there
that's only rare if the siege isnt coastal... if you are in a coastal town siege the defenders can last literally forever unless you have control of the waters
Could u do some Greek videos please
There's this one (czcams.com/video/zF6__9jBj3U/video.html) and there will be a continuation of it coming out at some point this year.
Did you study history in university?
I still am.
@@MLaserHistory which one if it's not a secret?
@@geoffreycharles6330 Oxford.
Wow and what's your nationality? You don't speak with a British accent.
@@geoffreycharles6330 Slovak, but I learned English in the US because that's where I did my undergrad so the accent is more American.
Is anybody else here because of oversimplified
Isn't that reference getting a bit old at this point ?
@@MLaserHistory I’m gonna be honest here no lol
i came here from oversimplified and discoverd a reat channel
Goddamn avars. They make researching the Caucasian avars so difficult.
To this day no one is sure who Pannonian Avars are, in sources they are called “Pseudo Avars” to differentiate them from Caucasian Avars.
interesting choice
caucasian avars is rather small ethnic group in comparison with historical pannonian avars, i would expect caucasian ones to be "awarded" with "pseudo-" prefix
@@sodinc pseudo Avars were called that by Ogukturks at time period at least according to Byzantine sources to differentiate them from Avars in Caucus
pretty sure they are just caucasian avars that migrated mate. it isnt a stretch to come to that conclusion either
@@goranpersson7726 that’s not how history is done , you don’t just come to conclusions if you do it that way you are not doing science but simple guessing
Roman sources called Avar lands as Tourkia. Useful hint for an educated guess
Why do you call them Byzantium? They are the Romans.
It's a historical division rather than a political one.
Historians call the Eastern Roman Empire after the fall of the Western Roman Empire in the 5th century Byzantium to symbolize the major political changes that underwent within the Roman Empire and outside of it during the early middle ages. For example by the 7th century when this siege occurred Greek became the prominent administrative language of the Empire not Latin (all the sources about the siege but one are in Greek). Hence calling it Byzantium is a useful label for chronological and contextual thinking about the history of the Eastern Roman Empire, even though yes they would view themselves as just "Romans" at this point in time.
@@MLaserHistory not just them either, most of the people living in that era considered them the roman empire
Who else came here from oversimplified