Consolidation of Power by Athens (c. 478-470 BCE)
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- čas přidán 9. 05. 2024
- First video in the series- • Beginnings of the Athe...
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! Extra Information & Clarifications !
0:00 Just like in the first video, in this video, and during the entire Athenian Empire series, I am going to be using Latinized versions of names and words (and the Latin pronunciation of them) as I am not good at reading the Greek alphabet let alone ancient Greek.
1:18 5th century BCE division of Athenian money is:
8 chalkoi = 1 obolus
6 oboloi = 1 drachma
100 drachmae = 1 mina (or mna)
60 minae = 1 Athenian Talent
Keep in mind that not all city states in ancient Greece divided money the same way the Athenians did and also that every city state, for the most part, minted its own money.
1:54 Since Athens was the hegemon of the Delian League, they were in charge of the administrations of the league including the administration of the payments (the administration of the treasury itself most likely fell to the Temple of Apollo at Delos where the money was stored). This included things like the collection of payments, or assessing how much each city state should pay, etc.
2:00 Some historians also believe the 460 talents number was so high because it didn't just account for the raw cash amount of treasury payments but also for the value of the ships and soldiers the city states that didn't pay to the treasury provided.
2:12 We don't know the exact list of which cities contributed money and which soldiers and triremes, specially in the first 50 years of the league. "we can only be certain that they included Lesbos, Chios and Samos, and very probably Thasos."
David Blackman. "The Athenian Navy and the Allied Naval Contributions in the Pentecontaetia." Greek, Roman and Byzantine Studies 10, no. 3 (2003): p. 179.
6:18 Since Thucydides often doesn't give us dates much of the dating of the events in the 5h century is debated by historians. Most of the dates in my videos are taken from 'A Commentary on Thucydides' by Simon Hornblower, unless I state otherwise in the pinned comment or the video.
8:25 Some of the Chalkidike peninsula came into the League at this point as well, although, most likely parts of it where in the league since the start of the Delian League as pointed out by Hornblower p. 14. Some parts of the Chalkidike most likely also joined the league later on, in the 460s and 50s, but we don't have exact dates so due to a more streamline flow of the video I have decided to count the whole of the peninsula as joining after the fall of Eion.
Doriscus was the main Thracian city that didn't leave Persia and remained in Persian control until probably the late 460s or the 450s.
Also, after the Persian defeat at Eion the Thracian tribes started to consolidate into the Odrysian Kingdom that became a thing probably in the 460s so will be mentioned in the next video. For now I showed Persian control in inland Thrace with patterned lines to display that Persia still had some nominal power there until the full consolidation of the Odrysian Kingdom in the 460s.
8:31 aparche = meaning first fruits, is a percentage of the booty, harvest, profits, etc. (usually decided upon ahead of time and in the instance of the Delian League was most likely 1/10 of the booty) that are given to the gods, i.e. the temples dedicated to the gods, as an offering.
9:13 Peraia = "a community's territory lying 'opposite', predominantly (but not exclusively) a mainland possession of an island state"
9:59 It is unknown whether the Scyros expedition was a league expedition or just an Athenian expedition with no league members involved but, considering the details we talked about I think it is far more plausible that this was solely an Athenian campaign. There is also a possibility that the expedition could have been solely a Cimon's idea which was retrospectively approved by the Athenians after Cimon successfully took the Island.
10:34 Well, actually, there are multiple different myths about Theseus and where he dies. But most historians agree that the myth that is being referred to in the message from Delphi to Athens is the one I talked about.
15:13 Aristides was asked about his state of wealth in a trial of Callias, the cousin of Aristides, who was tried on a capital charge. During the trial Callias was questioned about his great wealth and why he didn't help out Aristides. His poor family member. Aristides than allegedly replied to this question as stated in the video.
16:34 Spartans also didn't like Themistocles because he shot down their idea of excluding some Greeks from the first Hellenic League during the Greco Persian wars. Basically you don't go against the Spartans without consequences. Themistocles was also accused of corruption multiple times but, to be fare, almost every Athenian politician was accused of corruption at some point.
16:49 "There are also strong proofs of his [Aristides] reasonableness to be seen in his treatment of Themistocles. This man he had found to be his foe during almost all his public service, and it was through this man that he was ostracized; but when Themistocles was in the same plight, and was under accusation before the city, Aristides remembered no evil; nay, though Alcmeon and Cimon and many others denounced and persecuted the man, Aristides alone did and said no meanness, nor did he take any advantage of his enemy's misfortune, just as formerly he did not grudge him his prosperity."
Plut, Arist, 25.7
17:15 To be fare we don't know much about the Naxian rebellion other than that it happened. What I am stating here is a historical scenario presented by some historians but since there is no actual source that talks about the event, the event itself is debated.
18:04 Arche = rule or empire.
I love this, don’t be disparaged by views and numbers, what you’re doing is incredibly high quality
That's very true. Every time I watch his video I feel relaxed and overall has young a good time
I like the historia civilis inspired look, it's hard to imagine classical antiquity without it!
very true :)
i was beginning to miss historia civilis, so this was a welcome surprise
@@VivaCristoRei9 His in-depth look on the Congress of Vienna was so good though. If there ever was a successor to Caesarian Rome, its going to be Napoleonic Europe
@@mosesracal6758 you’re not wrong, I loved those videos too but also i do miss those rome videos and he rarely uploads
Really enjoyed that story about Theseus' bones. Those are the kind of thing that make classical history entertaining.
Honestly history can be cooler than Game of Thrones, it's just about how the educator presents it!
After Season 8 there's no contest, History is WAY cooler than Game of Thrones lol
You are doing a great service by covering these 50 or so years between the persian wars and pelopponesse war
Thank you. Yeah, the pentecontaetia is a mess that we sadly don't know much about but, I try my best to portray a coherent story.
Most Nations: how about we make our symbol a dragon or a lion or something fierce like that
Athens: me I want a cute owl
I mean owls are really good hunters and have basically night vision. Sounds pretty fierce to me and, not to mention, realistic ;)
It's probably a very ancient icon of the Mother Goddess or something like that, we find similar concepts in Iberian "ídolos oculados" (i.e. "eyed idols"), which have almost exactly those same eyes as Athenea's owl.
Oh, what a day! First Sam Aronow, later M. Laser uploaded really great videos. Looks like Christmas came early.
Also, I liked the subtle reference to History Matters and his signature style of humour at 17:33.
History Matters jokes, Sam Aronow's publishing time, Historia Civilis art style, all of which I "borrowed"; I am like the best amalgamation of everyone :D
@@MLaserHistory Most devious lick
You're a man of your word and I like it.
Thank you for continuing the series I super appreciate it!
Wow, 1 year and you didn't forget about it.
This was very insightful and interesting, thank you so much for putting the time in to make this video!
Excellent video man! I don't know much about medieval history, so keep it up.
Love the video mate, found you through your first video on Athens and it was great. Subscribed!
Thank you.
“Maybe in the future it will do better” this is that video my friend. Excellent job.
Wow! Great to learn about this time period of this region since ive literally never seen a video with this part of history before
Dropped a banger! Happy to see you
loved it! cant wait for more!
Historia Civilis fan confirmed
I mean, who isn't ?
Just binged watched all of your vids
Love the video, I didn't know much about Themistocles. You should do one on Bothades.
Another M. Laser video? Tis a good day
As an Historia Civilis Stan, I LOVE the video style please keep these up. I love this channel.
Great video, pretty sure I'm going to watch many more
Great video, as always!
Pls do continue, this is most interesting!
This was an excellent series, I haven’t seen much content on this time period! Thanks for your efforts. You’re a great narrator
Thanks. Next video out will be a continuation of this series.
Great work man keep it up
Awesome buddy thanks for the work
Haha, when you started talking about bones I also pictured the Runescape bones item, and then you used the picture :) Nice
I don't know Greek history well (until now!) but I have read Greek myths and know who Theseus was. The idea of the Ship of Theseus bringing back the bones of Theseus almost gave me goose bumps. I can only imagine how powerful that would have been to the people at the time. Truly fantastic!
solid stuff!!! thanks for helping me study
He returns! The modern Thucydides.
Very interesting stuff. Ancient Greek history is surprisingly overlooked, especially when it comes to these things
Nice work, enjoying the historia civilis vibe
I believe there's a Historytuber rule that as long as you cover the Classical Period you have to use a square art-style.
The squares are back!
They have never left. They're always in our hearts.
Keep them coming
Make another episode please in this series. I love this style of video. Supperrrrr interesting
Great Video!!!
With side are you own
Athens or Sparta
Chosen wisely💀
I "own" both sides!
Athens always, Sparta was nothing but a huge slave plantation. Athenians had slaves but they were mostly a real democracy for their age, in which even working class people were proud to partake. Also in many aspects much more democratic than modern "democracies", just imagine you could vote to exile that hated politician or oligarch.
Thebes
Macedon
This is really good
great video!
For a godess of defensive warfare, Athena has a horrible tack record of protecting people who shelter in her temple. 😂
You did very well, maybe do something with Historia Civilis in the future? It would be great to have a wider arch story wise regarding this period.
Historia Civilis is very private and doesn't work with anyone. I mean there's a reason he has never made a single colab with anyone.
love love love
I really liked this video
"But fun fact.....no!" A great tip of the hat to another great creator.
Your contribution to the historian community in youtube is unprecedented, how you have such low numbers is just baffling
Amazing
Mr.laser pls will u tell us about Asparuh of bulgaria, i dont know much about him but he seem to be a great general. Great content btw i love how much you have intel about history
Personally I think the the ancient Greece was an amazing interesting place because we'll it was the time of the first ever civilization and it is interesting to learn about the early state, nations, etc and adding the fact that Greek culture have a lot influence on the western civilization like it is a popular meme to say that Roma just copy Greece so very interesting
It's a long stretch to say it was the first civilization. There were highly complex, and in some places more advanced civilizations before ancient (namely classical but also mycenean) Greece - Egypt, Assyria, Babylonia, the Hitittes, and going back further Sumer, Egypt again, the Indus valley, etc. Of course this doesnt mean its definitely not interesting, it is! But it is not a utopia, nor the absolute foundation of western civilization as we think of it. Quite the contrary in fact, while the Renassaince as a movement came about from the influences of greco-roman thought, most actual contemporary thought derives from the Enlightnment (which was indeed influenced by the Renaissance, but very distinct). There was no concept of separation of powers, parliamentary democracy, or unniversal (underline unniversal) suffrage in Ancient Greece after all
It was not the "first ever civilization" at all. That was arguably Sumeria, millennia before Greece.
Greece is foundational to European civilization and also very influential (via Macedon and Hellenism, and later also through Rome) in West Asia and North Africa, even all the way to India to some extent, but it is not the "first ever civilization" at all, probably not even in the limited context of Europe.
Dunno if you heard about the suspected Dionysian cult found in Bulgaria but it's possible Greece was directly preceded by an even older civ up north. There was also an ancient society based in Turkey way before Greece too.
Amazing work, just recently found you. Keep the good work comming. Do you have a Patreon or some other thing I could donate to?
Yeah. Check the video description, there're links to everything there.
More episodes please! Its like historia civilis 2.0
That was neat
I'm a bit out of place here but having played Assassin's Creed Odyssey which is taken place in the Peloponnesian War, kinda geeking out to see some of the references. A bit weird that only now I know that Pausanias should already been long dead in the Peloponnesian War, that in the game he is one of the two kings of Sparta, a younger one at that, alongside Archidamos. Kinda have the same fate at the end really, hated and exiled by the people.
Well it's a game after all. Heck I've even met Theseus in the underworld.
The game is good. Like it gets a lot of things wrong but I don't expect it to be accurate and, I do expect it to take some creative liberties, it's a game after all. With that said, it portrays the world of Classical Greece extremely well despite the mistakes so I really enjoyed it.
Please more on The topic of Ancient Greece 🙏
Upcoming video is the next video in the series!
nice
politics of greek city states are really fascinating to me
It still doesn’t make sense to attack the island unless the island refused to allow them to take or look for said bones
Could you discuss the Haitian revolution?
13:30 if I didn’t know any better, Theseus bones sure look like RuneScape big/dragon bones 💀
maybe
@@MLaserHistory old school for life
Athens be like: weak kids will die
I mean we'll get there. Literally the Melian Dialogue.
Reminds me of historia civil however you spell his last name
It's been 2 long years....
Basically then..... Athens was the ancient version of The Gambino family..... am I right?
cool
My city.
CZcams stopped recommending you to me for some reason. Found u again tho
Yeah. CZcams doesn't really like to promote channels that don't upload frequently.
LMAO Runescape big bones!
lol yes :D
I has all kinds of NATO deja vu vibes while watching this video really.
👍🏿
bump
Ancient greece feel like our modern world in smaller scale
🤠👍🏿
😁
Goodday
omg squares
17:41 How does that work? You keep saying they settle some Athenians on the places they conquered. But what does that mean? Or rather how was it done? Did they pay some citizens to move there? Did they force them to move there? Did they move them into the city or next to it? How many did they move there? Surely a small population would just get masacered the moment Naxos rebelled again, and a big population would leave Athens depopulated, no?
Athens was the biggest city in the ancient world at the moment. They had plenty of people to settle and many immigrants coming in getting citizenship status so depopulation wasn't a concern.
The settlement of people in other cities was a bit complicated as it worked differently in different occasions. In the example of Skyros they simple jut killed, enslaved, or drove out everyone so the island had no population to speak of and Athens just established essentially a normal style colony.
In case of cities like Naxos, or later Thasos or Samos it is even more complicated. Most often these Athenian settlers where 'cleruchy' literally meaning 'allotment holders'. Basically Athens would create allotments in the former cities area, usually the best farm land around. These were taken by force or from people who died fighting Athens. Athens then disperse those allotments to their citizens chosen by lot (basically on random) from a determined pool. There is contradicting evidence suggesting that these allotments were either given to the poor Athenians to help them get out of poverty or to rich Athenians who used slaves to work these allotments while remaining in Athens. Most likely it was a combination of both.
The allotments could have been very profitable. In one source it is said that the cleruchy from Lesbos made 100 talents a year. This was a lot of taxable wealth for Athens hence profitable. The cleruchy also kept the local population in check. Athens would leave a garrison in cities that rebelled but not the entire time. The garrison would leave after 5 to 10 years because it was expensive to keep garrisoning every city that rebelled. After that the cleruchy, who still held Athenian citizenship but could also participate in local politics of their current abode, would be expected to keep the population in check. The local population would not kill them because they where still Athenian citizens. If they harmed Athenian citizens than Athens would show up and literally kill almost every citizen and burn down the city. Therefore, these cleruchy usually were well treated by the local population.
However, there is also evidence that on some occasions these allotments were leased out by the Athenians. Meaning that Athens gave the allotments to some people but they rather than leaving Athens and working it themselves would just lease out the allotments to the local citizens. This leasing of allotments defeated the whole purpose of having settlers around to keep the population in check. Therefore, most historians believe that the use of cleruchy and allotments differed on a case by case bases. Cities that where deemed not harmful had leased out allotments while others had actual Athenians citizens that where made to go their and work the land. These citizens where usually poor individuals hence they wouldn't mind leaving Athens.
As I said it is complicated :) and there is more to it than what I just explained here. If you go on JSTOR and just type in cleruchy or kleruch, you'll get a bunch of papers on it that are far more detailed.
@@MLaserHistory Many thanks for your answer
I just want to say one thing: circa
Fastest click
Poor Pausanias😔
To be fare all the sources describe him as a very unlikable character with devious motives. Also, the story of how he died is very "alleged" so who knows what really happened to him.
@@MLaserHistory Only if ancient humans could keep unbreakable and undestroyable records😔 And even if he was unlikable and had devious motives my guy got betrayed by almost everyone just because of a loss😔😔
Based Athens ngl
Where's the first video in the series?
It's in the video cards. The thing in the top right corner of the video. But now I have also put it at the top of the description and, just for you, ;) here's a link- czcams.com/video/zF6__9jBj3U/video.html
Cheers. Had a feeling that I was being dumb ahaha
A thens
1:40 Math sounds off. If a worker earns 1 drachma a day, that gives 365 drachmae a year. If one talent is 6000 drachmae, then one talent equals 16.4 years of labor, giving about 7.5 thousand years for those 460 talents.
Had me a bit confused, since it didn't sound like a single worker's 20 years' salary each year was too high a price for a collective of cities.
Dude. I don't even know what I was calculating. How did I manage to get to 21 years? How did I not check this? Yeah, that's a stupid mistake on my part. I edited that part of the video out as it's not really necessary and is just a dumb mistake.
@@MLaserHistory I was playing with converting your 21 year number into USD and kept ending up with something around one million USD, which seemed like a pretty small and reasonable amount for a city to annually pay, and kinda confused me for a bit. Using @Krupam's number puts the USD value between one quarter and one half of a billion USD.
Glory to Athens. Glory to democracy.
Gay
GaY
nice