The GOOD, BAD, & UGLY Of Wurt/Winona's Skill Trees - Staying Afloat Update - Don't Starve Together
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- čas přidán 3. 07. 2024
- Did an influx of mechanical machines and majestic merms actually fix the woes of Winona's machinations and Wurt's worries?!
"Full" Patch Notes - forums.kleientertainment.com/...
Additional Winona Notes - forums.kleientertainment.com/...
Animation - • Don't Starve Together:...
Drops - forums.kleientertainment.com/...
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#new #update #dontstarvetogether #tutorial #guide #trending #dontstarve #opinion #review - Hry
![Who Is Charlie? What Does She Want? [Don't Starve Together Lore]](/img/n.gif)
Winona - More gadgets, less redundancy, a potential tie to her base-kit hunger mechanics, trusty tape was outright ignored, working efficiency would've been nice, and a wrench!
Wurt - Better wetness options (say like Pond Swimming seeing as she grew up in the Swamp for Pete's sake), a connection to The Gnaw (Gorge Event entity that literally mermifies people and other mobs and is worshiped in Merm Lore), a better Lunar Affinity to make choosing one more interesting, merm variants, less focus on combat, contained mosquito skills (or just none at all), something related to books/reading, and less Skills that all do the same thing but worse
"Full" Patch Notes - forums.kleientertainment.com/game-updates/dst/617515-r2203/
Additional Winona Notes - forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/156762-additional-winona-notes/
Animation - czcams.com/video/MaZotfhJZWs/video.html
Drops - forums.kleientertainment.com/forums/topic/157599-new-streaming-drops-available-now-the-rosy-eyebrella/
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Bro I love you're videos still
Same also why is there only one reply?
I agree with you on Wurt's skilltree. This is coming from someone who thinks Wormwood's skilltree is the best thing ever (because it is), so take my words with a little salt, but I feel like the DLC character should all have something unique to them that WARRENTS them having a price (whether that be spools or money) Wurt's skilltree is less of a skilltree, and more like a Merm Skilltree.
Yeah, minus the wetness stuff, I never felt like anything I was choosing was actually making Wurt better, just her combat capabilities.
I'm afraid of what might happen with Maxwell and Wortox, like useless skills or in the skill tree being generally generic and boring as well as some other characters that I won't talk about because it's a personal opinion
I feel like Wurt's issue with being combat oriented is more an issue with followers than her specific skill tree. Like, Wurt is essentially a Follower focused character, and there really isn't much to do for followers, other than collecting resources (which is covered by the Industrious Merms skills) and fighting for you.
Like, if they were to add new merm variants (which they technically did by adding Shadow Merms, and Lunar Mutant Merms in the Affinities), what would those variants even be? An Industrious Merm that focuses on resource gathering instead of combat would be a useless thing to waste skill points on, because who wants to waste resources on a follower that can't defend themselves? We already have combat oriented merms in the form of Merm Guards, so unless you add a Ranged Combat Merm that can, like, hock acid loogies at enemies or something, that's also a bust.
I could possibly see a Support Merm subclass that can carry healing items to take care of other merms (basically delegating the Healing Shot from her mosquito skills to them instead), but that is essentially it. I see no other use for any new mer variants, because followers, not merms, just followers in general, have so little functionality beyond resource gathering and combat that there is nothing there to expand upon.
As for putting Gnaw stuff in her skill tree, I simply don't see how it would fit in diegetically. Yes, the Gnaw is connected to merms lorewise, but it is also sequestered to to the Gorge instance of the Constant, and has no allegiance to the merms anyway, since Mermification is a punishment for displeasing the Gnaw in the first place. For Wurt to get Gnaw related skills would be like Woodie getting skills related to the Gestalts or Lunar mutant mobs, just because he has a moon-triggered were-curse.
If there is something I feel like could have been added to her skills that would both expand her gameplay and be lore friendly, it would be to give her her own set of books, like an ultra-light Wickerbottom kit. It would play into her love for reading, and show how much she's learnt about reading by letting her write and use a few niche spell books of her own. Maybe a Pigleo and Mermiet book (referencing that one short) that can temporarily pacify the Pigmen from hurting her, for example, or switch her Mudslingers into a Swamplore book to summon swamp turf instead. Learning the Swamplore book would then be the new pre-requisite to learn Terra Mutation and Terra Corruption, and those skills would have nothing to do with your Mutant or Shadow Merms. That would also be a good reason to look into giving Lunar Affinity a better function than just Awakened Lunar Mutant Merms.
You're tripping yourself up by thinking about it too much. Keep the combat crap all you want but leaning into it in full and dedicating endless skills to it is the issue because it doesn't allow for expression. We could've had a book skill instead of multiple stages of a perk that speeds up already insane respawn timers! A fishermerm would have sufficed for variants over 3 mosquito skills! And incorporating The Gnaw, even with just a reference, could've gone a long way to return to incorporating lore into the actual game that Klei has clearly given up on.
I think the best thing about skill trees, is that they force you to play with a character that you usualy wouldnt to unlock "easy mode" for them.
yea, i mostly play as wendy but now i mostly play as woflgang
also the thing 90% of the playerbase completely skipped by skipping days on that one character.
Well, it isn't exactly easy mode, it is more of a time skip so that you can get to the new content easier. Unless Klei keeps making them more insane though.😂
Wurt is honestly easy mode without skill tree. She has only one weakness which can be a huge strength once the ball gets rolling, and often there are more than enough berries to keep you fed while you establish yourself
@@gilmonteiro4462 There are 3 console commands to add exp. And because exp is global for every single world, most of the players will just cheese these skill points and won't care about unlocking the "easy mode". So I do. Once unlocked and distributed as I want and I just use all the best abilities forever.
Honestly, the only thing that I like on wurts skill tree is the shoddy tool since this changes everything and it powercreeps maxwells shadow when it comes to farming since the merms can till soil now ( they cant pick up grass or twigs but still)
But Power Creep is a danger zone that continues to grow and grow ever since Klei stopped caring about progression... 😬😬😬
not u saying winona hates wagstaff when she ltrlly tries to save him on her short 💀
You and the 20+ people who liked this comment must not have human emotions, basic instincts, or off-the-cuff responses to stressful situations.
You rush into a sudden, chaotic situation and see someone being sucked up against their will and you're not gonna help?! Even if you don't like the person?!?! What does that say about all of you thinking this way?!?!?!?! I don't want any of y'all around if I ever need help apparently. 😬🤔😅😶
@@TheBeard777the building is collapsing man
"Under cover" mean nothing?! Saving him was a means to an end, and given everything we know about Wagstaff he's most certainly not worth saving so it serves a purpose for Winona.
@TheBeard777 I re-watched the short and there is nothing to suggest that she believed he had any connection to the disappearances she was investigating except for the picture of Wx-78’s Rib cage which could be cleaned away as her thinking that this “stolen” property Might be connected In the board was out in the open, I believe
Inter examinations of him and certain tools suggest she’s a loyal worker
Wurt was always a master of followers, it was the best feature she had, the merms could easily kill Queen Bee before, cut trees and break rocks, they were just so good. You said that's not who she is, but then you didn't said what she is supposed to be.
Also, I've seen a speedrunner using only Lunar merms to kill bosses, só I believe there is something here you're missing.
You people and your focus on "speedrunning" and killing everything as quickly as possible is exactly what started killing this game and Klei's sense of balance. She's meant to be a young Merm wanting to rebuild Mermkind, not be an unstoppable killing machine with an army.
@@TheBeard777she can rebuild merm kind by building an army lmao
@@floofypenguin7879 I think beard's point is that Webber is already the "100% focused on an army and combat type followers" character, where his spiders are only able to kill anything webber commands them to do and heal at MOST.
Wurt, in theory, is supposed to be a more versatile and all-around oriented follower master, as her merms are clearly more intelligent (being able to knock down resources and use tools), so i think that beard's point is that they should lean in more in that aspect instead of the big army moment webber is so focused on.
That being said, i do see her merms being more intelligent with this skill tree update with the beforementioned tools and the "sensible fighter" skill.
I felt like wurt got a short end of stick and wonna got a big end. I get the lore of wonna Want, but I felt like they should give wurt bit more verity. I really want to see who lived in constant and have more stories than the who was brought there
It's strange as I like Wurt's Tree more than Winona's even though I find Wurt's to be the worst when it comes to making sure that Wurt actually stays as Wurt... 😅👀
I think its intentional, klei seems to be using these skill trees as a way to revisit balance, look at wolfgang, really strong character, really meh skill tree, woodie was pretty weak, his skill tree came with a lot of goodies.
Winona is a rare pick, usually people just swapped to her, her skill tree actually makes her pretty exciting to play, wurts skill tree? Well, she was already popular enough, it's kinda middle of the road, but as a wurt main, I was expecting it.
Would have loved to see a skill for building merm structures on boats, but I actually really like most of the merm skills, and only needing to maintain 1 king now is a HUGE buff (despite the fact that really always should have been this way)
For Wurt's structures, I don't really mind. If you don't need the skill to actually use said structures, than respecing at a lunar portal after you build what you want to build is an entirely ok option. It's like Swaping to Wormwood when you want to make berry bushes, or when Wigfrid wants to make her battlecall canister. It's a temperory respec build when you have purple gems and moonrocks to spare.
Still would have been nice if Winona got more than just catapult upgrades. Maybe luner oversharged spotlights switch her over to enlightenment, with shadow charged spotlights making shadow creatures de-aggro unless provoked. Also more gagets in general would have been very nice, like a bait trap that fUnctions like a Teeth trap, with bait included.
Winona is basically already just the character you switch to when you want to build catapult farms to do your work for you anyways, the skills just let her do that more effectively.
I was thinking klei will introduce gnaw into the constant world in the late skill tree update. Wurt, wortox and and wanda be the last 3 because one is related to gnaw and another 2 have teleporting skill, using their skills to help everyone back to the real world. But don't worry, the skill tree can always be reworked.
I am kinda iffy on your points to as why Winona doesn't deserve the Wagstaff part of her tree. Not going to point out she saves him, she doesn't sound like she dislikes him in any of her dialogue, and even calls him bossman. I feel like is she initially worked for him to get leads on Charlie and then grew to like him
You can have a boss that you pretend to like and give respect while secretly hating their guts. That's kind of what "going undercover" entails. Furthermore, Wagstaff should've never become the opposite of Charlie in the first place but Klei forced that too which leaves all sorts of bad tastes in my mouth.
@@TheBeard777 its weird you think that's what that line is implying. The survivors for the most part are thinking out loud. At most I think she's weary about Wagstaff, not outright hateful for. I also agree with your point about Wagstaff being the opposite of Charlie. It kinda feels forced and honestly Charlie and just plain old Alter are a lot more interesting that tying in Wagstaff in there.
I am disappointed with Wurt's skill tree; it was the skill tree I was looking forward to the most, with the ability to create new ponds and move the swamp. In the end, everything is super combat-focused, even though the merms were already overpowered. Honestly, it has put me off the character itself, and I've had a hard time playing it again since then. No lore with The Gnaw, overpowered affinities, I can only agree with you because I felt the same way in every aspect from the first day of the beta.
As a wurt main i wanted 3 things
- A more interesting early game
- Merm variants
- Make water not bad for you
So i'm pretty happy with the amphibian branch but all the rest of the stuff being focused in the preexisting merms (and mostly the fighters at that) is pretty sad, mosquito stuff and better farming seems fun at least
Sucks to hear that this put you off the character. That's never a good sign... But at the end of the day that's what happens when Klei is seemingly making the most baffling decisions with their own game.
The hitboxes of almost ll structures has changed in this update. One of these things arethe signs. From now on, you cant use signs anymore to cheese dragonfly because you cant place a wall next to it.
That is mentioned in the actual update videos. This is just me ranting unscripted about Winona and Wurt. But yes, that's a big change!
@@TheBeard777 is there a mod that lets u use the old hitboxes?
I agree with you here as Winona's whole skill tree is based on just the Catapult and dealing as much damage as possible. Even though the new update is cool there are a lot of gaps, she needs more gadgets and maybe change the wagstaff side as it doesnt make any sense to be honest, maybe vhange it to the Cryptic Founder.And they need the specific bosses for their affinities in my oppinion
Can’t failed to noticing your Mario T-shirt ❤
I love base building better than anything else about the DTS universe.
I feel like to save some skill points up klei should just make any skills that grants you access to a craft a base kit thing instead, such as the skeeter bombs for Wurt and plant crafts for wormwood, etc. Klei can probably replace those skill slots with something else in place that enhances those skills too
every new skill tree has me agreeing with you more and more. i really dislike that a lot of skills are just percentage increases, rather than new content. its so much worse than it ever was in this update. "now you can do this thing youve always been able to do, but better i guess"
Wurt is alright but I do wish all the economy upgrades were 1 skill each though. Though I'm happy we have a character for which shadow path isn't objectively worse. It's on the wrong one of the two but hey it's there!
I’m actually glad that Winona’s skill tree doesn’t require her to kill the bosses(skill issue) so it allow but it is weird to change the standard
@@user-lf3qd8kx5f As a switch player, yeaaah. I have a major skill issue, although I think the controls were updated recently.
Please Klei don’t miss this hard on Walter 🙏
I have so many thoughts about the skill tree why did they get worse at skill trees, like add so quests, and all the characters are so over powered unless they add some crazy end game content like a shadow and lunar themed boss like the Dragonfly in uncompromising mode. and I know this is a hot take and more crafting stuff ilke. Woody's skill tree was perfect he is not too over powered. Are any non skills powers of the characters this over powered and none of the skills have down sides. but after I side all this is like to know you thought about where you want the skill tree to go and one last thing I hate how they keep making the game faster like slow down
Winona dose and always has had a work efficiency mechanic. She crafts things faster, so you can craft 2 boards in the time it takes other characters to craft 1, if you have full hunger. Not sure if its exactly that much faster, but it is quite a bit faster.
That's not what I meant. I meant number of items crafted, not the speed at which they are made.
@@TheBeard777 I heard what you said, and you made it sound like she has absolutely 0 buffs when it comes to work efficiency. But she does. And Crafting 2 boards for the price of one really just doesn't make any sense. If I gave you all the ingredients to make exactly 1 ham sandwich, you can't just conjure up 2 sandwiches because your good at cooking, but you could make them faster, and we already have that.
The game literally just introduced a mechanic of turning less materials into more and I was specific in what I meant by efficiencies but sure, keep going on about it.
Wurt should have been follower utility. Webber should have been Follower combat. Wurts should have been an alive kingdom with merm jobs.
They stabbed themselves in the foot, what will they do for Webber? Spiderman? Webslingers? Lol
Correct! Wurt could've been a balance between combat and utility (something she already is) with Webber going full blown spider mayhem!
Was thinking about the Lunar Affinity side of Wurts' skill tree.
If we're still going with the merm combat focus for it like they do for the shadow side, then maybe we could bring in gestalts to attack enemies. Maybe give it a chance for making the enemy sleep, and now there could be a choice of more merm damage through death or survivability.
Though I have a feeling this could become unbalanced if not handled properly, just throwing out a semi reasonable fix idea.
what is most likely that going to happen is Keli will add all the trees and fix all underpowered and overpowered skill trees
Thing is I think they are using skill trees to rebalance, wolfgang was strong, got a weak tree, Winona was weak, got an awesome tree.
I expect Walter will get a REALLY good tree, and Maxwell will probably get an okay one
one thing or two i could think about that could help a lil on Wurts skill tree is the mosquito incognito imo could have been included in itchy craft 1 and for the mermking hunger stuff hmmm maybe merge the 2 first skills into 1 skill and perhaps have the slower hunger drain also effect Wurt herself while there is an active King... that way you could remove like 2 dump skills and possibly make a branch maybe more useful
if i recall correct didnt klei merge Wormwoods bee and butterfly skills?
well since they did that they could easily do it for wurt and Winona like her generator stuff to be like a 2 skill branch instead of 3 as in the first is 50% and the 2nd 100% as an example. and same goes for other survivors that got multiple skills doing the same of increasing stuff little by little
Having some of the hunger mechanics impact Wurt herself is a good call, especially if we're incorporating The Gnaw into it!
I was never a big fan of the skill trees but I think it might be because I dont understand them much. Its super hot in Florida this month , seeing your beard makes me feel like im on fire lol 😂❤🎉 i couldnt imagine being a guy with a beard in this heat but it looks so good I couldnt image shaving it
Hope you can keep cool my friend! Stay safe down there!
Dang you do have a cool beard. Im not suscribing out of jealousy but because of the cool dst videos okay?
🧔
This type of skill tree would be cool for Warly since he already has established himself as the best support ever and has an insane amount of utility (could have a couple of things to prevent using him as a swap character though) but generally lacks in many other areas, meaning that number buffs should theoretically make him more fun
I would have liked them to add a base machine or two for winona. An ice maker from shipwrecked or a sprinkler for farming, fire control, and surface heat managemnt in summer. Im also saddened that they didnt give more emphasis on scrap for her. Heck i would have just replaced the spot light with a chargable lamp since we have lanterns and light bulb table lamps. I do love winbots because... idk they are useful and cute. All and All Mr. Beard i believe you have many good points.
Haven't dug much into Wurt throughout betas (though her perks related to building structures can be switched once built so they're not as much of a waste so you can go ahead and fully enjoy very left skills devoted to wurt and only) but I've got quite some to tell about Winona
First of all spotlights are a pretty nice thing now considering how slow they consume energy early game. They're more accessable light for base compared to mushlights and heating effect helps not only first winter but in general convinient for any long world. Charging gadgets twice as fast is just not needed and feels more like a waste because you'll have laying around lots and lots of gadgets eventually anyway, having a few winbots and portasols even mid game shouldn't be an issue and you probably wont need much of these before CC killed and his shards aquired for advanced builds.
AOE for pults isn't important but a great QoL perk if you've got some points to spare while attack speed is pretty much never worth it because even ALL 3 of them are worse than just one use of barrage remote command.
Charlie perks are good early game cause cheap and accessable since you wont have enough CC shards to build wild enough stuff from his side and just winbots from him at the beginning would be already enough.
Shadow strike is insane for varg and spider farm as well as any other walking farmable mob, also a free FW healing stage skip.
With just 2 CC killed you'll have enough CC shards to power 5 gemerators each having 2 CC shards and 1 pure bril. With these and just 15-20 pults you can go ahead and finish raid bosses such as BQ or Dfly in just 20 if not less seconds from the start of the fight. Misery toad dies in around 3 minutes to such setup.
Generator perks are pretty much essential imo across the board (and compared to catapult related perks on shelf 2 in general) making them twice as efficient shines even more when you're using late game CC powered gemerators. Without those perks you can shot very few planar strikes before it overheats but with 100% more efficiency you can spam click it with 3 pults attached per such gemerator, or 4 if you let it go once in like 10 shots so it gets charge back instead of overheating. Also for early game it allows to use shadow strike more or in general not waste much time refueling and fuel itself. Also it allows to put telepads further away from each other late game when making a system of pads to be able to teleport throughout the map to any point.
Imo her skills making a strong, convenient and fun kit that she's matching Wanda in terms of utility and mobility for the time being before more upcoming skill trees.
As for lore matter I'm pretty happy with Winona there too because how she've got acess to goods of both sides (though gotta commit to one of them) and also first character to combine both shadow and lunar planar affinites with her catapults shooting out Yin Yang like projectiles if powered by two generators with both aspects. Charlie being her beloved sister and also being devoted to her boss - items and powers they're providing her with makes sense to me.
A singular focus on preexisting kit, particularly the catapults that were already stupidly easy and powerful to manage, just feels like a cop-out. Add in the near 10+ % boosts and her entire Tree is just wasted potential regardless of how functional it is. Once more I reiterate, the fun factors are their both both Winona and Wurt however their factual fundamentals are straight up ignored or replaced because Klei needs to Power Creep everything.
@@TheBeard777I agree that too many % skills aren't that entertaining and yeah she could use even more structures such as hamlet sprinkler for crops but that'd be something that other characters would be able to use and most likely klei aren't a fan of such idea considering how she was before the skills and is why they double down on her kit making it more personalised. For armor and in general I'd assume klei want us to actually look into gear coming from Wagstaff since she's getting resources for repair kits for free all the time and as for weapon I believe there gotta be more merch added down the road from scrap such as that fancy laser from scrappy or whatever related they'll come up. Our expectations could be high but in general I feel like they did manage to encourage people to actually play her and is fun despite second shelf of skills being a fat filler with number tweaks
I would have sworn one of Wurts end of branch skills should have been swimming. I would be great on the amphibians stuff
Is it just me or did this update come with issues with gameplay, before the update I was able to invite friends to games and now I cant and when they do join if they try entering caves they get kicked out and when they try joining it kicks them out again with an error message. The game is currently unplayable with friends and I still can't fix this issue
Console caves are completely borked for now, yes.
Can you prototype ruin gear with the gadget?
Wurts skill tree is actually pretty insane. First of all: You can Build toolsheds, Armermry and Kelpdish and then reset your skill set. Same works for the kings quest and if you then go for hunger perks it‘s a joke to maintain your king.
That leaves inside points to max out amphibian , get the Mosquito branch (which is honestly great for healing if you base in swamp because merms auto farm mosquitos) and get the shadow affinity. I agree after testing that the shadow affinity is insane. The amount of tentacles you get is crazy.
In tried to kill all bosses with merms and about 20-25 merms with this skill tree. I killed every single one of them without doing much myself. Even bosses with high aoe damage (CC, Toadstool, mutated bosses) don‘t stand a Chance.
It honestly felt to easy at one point. I get the criticism with her skill tree. It would have been nice to cencentrate more on her being a merm.
Of course! Again, I'm not here saying they're bad! I'm just pointing out some glaring flaws that keep creeping into these Skill Tree Updates that if left unchecked will just make the game - and further Trees - questionable. Also, I have to imagine that they didn't quite think through building all the stuff and then resetting Insight Points... 😅😬
They should have given her the hability to use books as an afinity choise, and give her a exclusive book.
Yes, frog rains
There's too much focus on Merm's combat prowess; Merms were already solid, borderline OP to begin with.
If they wanted to put emphasis on the follower aspect of Wurt, I would have preferred more non-combat orientated Merm skills or cheaper crafting skills to speed up the early game.
(I like the fact Merms can help till soil now, it provides more of a "cult of the lamb" vibe)
Additionally, more incentives to build a Merm King for Wurt herself; Perhaps offerings that grant Wurt/world buffs. E.g speed, damage, wetness or straight up rain.
A more natural way to gain & use wetness. Whether that be Merm King buffs, meals or new craftable armour/tools e.g Tentacle spot armour/headgear or backpacks
(essentially a reverse raincoat)
Though part of me thinks the wetness tree is over-rated; Healing isn't too hard to come by on Wurt and there are other ways to mitigate damage e.g Beefalo.
Assuming you're wearing a football helmet & Slippery Hide, your wetness meter will survive 250 points of damage.
That's 5 insight points and a full wetness bar for the equivalent of 2 to 3 bluecaps, roasted: potatoes, tomatoes or eggplants.
You still lose armour durability, you have to go out of your way to gain wetness, maintain wetness and deal with faster food spoilage and lower temps.
Marble Suits + Water Balloons would make Wurt incredibly tanky, but it's a little niche within the context of Wurt & Merm armies.
"All-Weather Scales" is still kinda nice, it reduces the wetness temperature penalty by 33%; pretty solid for the first spring before sunfish are available.
Shame it's locked behind 2 points of Mental Fluidity.
I have mixed feelings about the tree to say the least and yes I agree it could do with some fat trimmed off and condensing.
I have to be honest I was very skeptical of Wurts mosquito crafts, and I haven't used the bomb yet. But the blood shoots are really good! The merms are constantly killing mosquitoes anyway, so there are always the red sacks laying around and the shoots are so easy to make.
Again, they're okay, but they're still mostly ignorable and should've been contained in 1 Skill, not 3.
@@TheBeard777 I agree with them being available in skill one not three. Especially because one can only spend 15 skill points :D
They should add fishbat like hambat exclusive for wurt craft with elemental season fish in it that can be much fun playing wurt.
Is there any mod that lets us have like 30 points to use on these trees? I hate not having everything tbh
There are mods for full Skill Trees, yeah.
I think that all the mermas need from an ax is to dig stumps and split the marble with the help of a bug, and they are not bad at chopping with their hands.
and another plus of shadow merms is that they do not burn, do not freeze and do not sleep, this is a VERY big plus for merms
and it is not like with spiders or pigs that any kind of fire or attack on a cyclops renders them inactive
The fillers seem to be a balance desition, wanting to take more than 1 afinity point for a skill down the lime, but instead of sakinf for 3 afinity points for a skill they make you take some little benefit for the imvestment.
I feel like the skill trees can be better but I like them thay can use something tho like maybe the skill trees can be more character oriented like for battle character thay can kill bosses or other mini bosses for points or something like that Also for certain skills , you have to find certain things or kill certain bosses
What do you all think the worst skill tree was/ has been?
Wolfgang's because it was just as boring as he already was. I know we don't have much to work with there but like 9 of his perks are just straight up damage increases on a character that already deals the most damage in the game. And another is for a whistle while he's in normal mode to allow for stronger followers (pigmen really) when no one in their right mind is going to choose pigmen combat over just fighting as mighty Wolfgang themselves.
Can we have a winona bot shooting lasers please? Or at least a new turrent shooting lasers, they already have the animation for this in the game...
I’m a wurt main so I’m happy
As a Wurt main, I still really like the Wurt skill tree. Like dont get me wrong, its a great skill tree for the most part. Its an 8/10. But i just cant help to think about the potential it could've had. And its not as if Klei didn't know about what we wanted. The overwhelming majority of fans wanted merm variants so why did we not get merm variants? Many fans also wanted the Gnaw and lore drops with Wurt. The thing is too that the Gnaw, lore and merm variants basically go hand in hand. You can easily give the fans everything they want with like 3 skills. Why are we not giving the players the lore they wanted, the Gnaw they wanted, the Merm variants they wanted..... in favor of noob trap useless mosquito crafts that are unanimously disliked??
If any character should've had extra effort put into their revamp it should've been Wurt. Again, i actually really like the Wurt skill tree. Im enjoying it a lot. Its just the missed potential that stings.
i want the spotlight light radius of the new skill implemented as a default radius and instead that skill change it into a boat propel, the generator efficiency 3 points merge into 1 and the other 50+100% instead by new ones 1) portable generation item for generators and the 2) night vision goggles. in general so many new more fun things instead catas dmg n dmg ib general fir everyone instead of finding a cunning strat to deal with enemies, its dst not final fantasy
i think about skill trees that you play lot more then other but it feel getting skill point is too fast like it feel better getting XP then getting 1 per 3 days
Gadgets were a serious missed opportunity. The goggles, bot, and teleporter dont feel like enough.
@@Soul7k For me they feel much more than enough. IMO teleporters are insanely usefull, you can transport resources to other people through the while map, you can teleport on/off boats, you can transport heavy items faster.
And WINbots are just so fun! I love their funny little sounds, and the fact that they let you automate stuff
Also nightmare fuel generators mean infinite fuel basically, so it is awesome too
Two gadgets for an Engineer character who already has 9 Skills dedicated to increasing some numbers on preexisting kit is absolutely not enough regardless of how useful they are. 😅
About the "too combat focus" unfortunately it's a repercussion from Klei since 2019. They always try to push more the centre of the game to the fighting and it's really really tiresome...
P.s I don't comment too much on your channel Beard but from the guy who created the whole movement against skill trees, I fully support you. We have reached over 20+ points with logic, reason and good will on why they're bad. Skill trees don't belong in Don't Starve. Keep going 💪
Trust me, I'm getting tired of an Update coming out and just shaking my head asking myself, "Really Klei?! THIS?!?!". They screwed up once they changed their plans after Forgotten Knowledge and that is getting more clear with every passing release these last 1.5 years.
I wish that the skill tree of wanda dont being like that
hey the beard777 what is your favorite boss in Don't starve?
Iron Hulk, Ancient Herald, Celestial Champion, and the Shadow Pieces
wow my favorite is dragonfly badger
It would have been nice (I think) if the skill trees made certain abilities better while reducing or deactivating other abilities. That way it helps some one focus a character in more to there play style but adds drawbacks.
I feel like Winona's tree is just neat. Not real useful or OP like some. The wormhole jumping is good but is nothing compared to base Wortox. With Wurt, I've been jumping off boats.
Am I tripping or is Wurt's skill tree broken? I maxed out her wetness tree which is supposed to increase wetness on some turfs but it doesn't do that.
@@HTGY6YTH67Y it only increases on mutated swamp turfs, not the normal swamp
@@cztnights honestly, they should make it on all swamp turfs, if they aint willing to add swimming in ponds or stuff like that.
Wait, Don't Starve now was skill trees? I don't like the idea myself, I saw character power growth thought the items we laid our hands on, and those often came with the coast and/or durability. If you want something that improve characters, I think maybe introducing some form of "home familiarity".
Maybe characters would feel more comfortable using certain items making them much more proficient.
How about them actually wanting to have something resembling their desired room? Furnitures that and floors that could make them do action faster or more efficient?
Maybe Winona would be more proficient if she had her work shop area? Maybe some furniture items that contribute to it?
Maybe some characters would want some restartable gramophone music with others finding it either distracting, neutral or even brining back horrible memories?
With it you have something that can benefit multiple players instead of one player. And all that still comes with the main dangers of base building, it can be destroyed, burned and lost. Yet the multiplayer part of the game allows it to easier rebuilt it.
I say for battles or even full arenas we could have battle drums, making characters, I don't know, be stunned for less, faster, with special buff for Wigfrid?
But sorry, I don't play this game as much as I did in the past and even then, I was playing alone. It is just some spit ideas I though of when I heard of it.
It's starting to seem like games are adding updates that people wanted but are horribly ruining them or not even adding the features at all. Or downright making it pay to win in some rare cases.
In the end it dosent matter what you think how it should be the most people love the skilltress and at least the casuals have a better chance now to make it through winter looking on official server people just play until winter and leave because they don't make it through the laggy engine of the game is the worst problem of everything I can't even say how many times I died on laags of the game
i'd argue the lunar merms do have a use: i dunno if its a bug or what but in my experience, mutated merms (whether via moon glass or the mud slinger) never stopped following me, they never went back to being normal either, sure the glowing eyes buff thing wore off but they remained as their spiky mutated forms and were loyal to me indefinitely
Shadow Merms do the same though so... Shadow still wins. 😅👀
@@TheBeard777 But shadow is harder to create, you would need a boss with enough strong aoe to actually kill your merm for them to revived, while with lunar you can freely control whether you want permanent followers or not by using mudslinger
For the celestial champion which has a lot of aoe dmg, shadow performs a little better. Outside of that, lunar is much more comfortable and more than enough
Skilltrees as mechanic should be just extansion of character in way you can get everything but in less diversity... for me it's not fun to farm points to not use fully something, bcs you have limited points and just seeing other like 'Ohhh, so if they not totally useless I just lost part of character gameplay'
Simply that's meta defining and add chaos. And as person whoes likes to play Wurt I'm kinda dissapointed how her skilltree is looking. I was hoping for other stuff, like something around farming bcs of better vegetables for her as normal passive (this part I want to expand bcs I haven't known about mechanic of merms which can do stuff with soils and farms, but still disapointing when another fine skill should be something like Provincial Gardener adding whole structures or just items to made them more responsible for keeping King feed or adding nutriens to soil... simple stuff), I was expecting something like crafting new armor or staff for Mermking as one skill which add for you new recipies, which than you need to put on Merm King and for me to balance this it could be like ENDING skill from 3 others, but not in straight line of upgrading, but from 3 diferent skills which do diferent stuff not upgarding previous one.
Yeah winnona's wagstaff side is questionable since she was undercover, but then again she is stealing wagstaffs caches and stuff in game. Maybe she isn't really on his side after all
Sure, sure, which is why I mentioned that it would be nice for Klei to start being better at giving hints at lore implications in game as well as perhaps certain Winona examinations could hint at this very thing!
Can you make a solo DST character guide
What I meant is what characters can be good alone
Can you do another mod review of cloud
Beard there is a huge bug on consoles, u cant join invites and online berely works. They said they fixed it but not. :(
Yeah... I've been hearing about that a lot. Sorry you guys are dealing with that...
0:26 Yes, next question.
😋😁😏💙
Cool
winona didn't get anything actually interesting besides free bloat, but the main part that makes me like winona over wurt is that winona is actually super viable early game right now and isn't as much of a swap character anymore (she still is one). while wurt still needs seasons and seasons of hard work to reach most if not any of her potential.
about the bossman skilltree side of things, I think it's more like winona is still against wagstaff because she literally robs him with the perks, but it's still weird that this part of the skill tree exists considering Winona's affection towards Charlie (she almost died because of that in one of the cinematics).
I have not played in over a year and it has been increasingly difficult to get back in the game with often it changes
Totally understandable! Not only does every update add more to learn - especially when people don't watch guides that spoil everything - a lot of the stuff has been weighted towards endgame content which is just... well... at the end of the game. Honest to God I have had zero motivation to even get close to any of it for over a year myself.
@@TheBeard777so why do u keep making dst content?
Is this patch in beta or live ? PC being repaired atm
It’s live
Live on everything but Nintendo Switch although Console Players are a bit out of luck right now as it broke the caves.
That's great, I'm sure their skill trees are things that exist.
I'm just waiting for a Wendy skill tree. She's basically the only character I play as.
A Walter and Wendy batch wouldn't be frowned upon.
Shadow Merms for the win!
since ur against skill trees isnt that great when they make skills a waste rather than powerful
I want Skills that are fundamentally sound to the character. I want Skills that slightly expand on the lore of the character. And I want skills that don't continuously push the boundaries of ridiculousness when it comes to Power Creep.
5:00 I'm glad someone else agrees with me
Nothing about the fact that she is vegetarian. No one is going to make the fertilizer.
i still feel like they could have ditch a lot of points, make skills much more concise and have them require specific things to happen or to be done?
for example, let winona choose lunar or shadow from the get go, but if she wants to get the rose she has to scan five different charlie related things first, the portal, the stage, maxwells statue, a regular rose and a harp statue? something like that? the unlocks should be part of the gameplay not one and done, it also "fix" the issue for console players who cant just cheat the insight points.
the many levels of some stuff are just to justify 15 points spreads, nothing else
Skill Trees and their perks need to be woven into natural gameplay progression, yes. Combine that with NOT allowing all 15 Insight to be available 24/7 after earning them once and Skill Trees will immediately earn a better grade in my mind.
I feel like you can keep the first 5 points after you get insight like 5 just because getting max level takes sooo long that it would get tedious to do that every new world.
Really agree with the followers combat thing though.
Like I feel like Webber is the combat follower guy
Wurt is the utility follower character
And maxwells is a sort of mix of the two.
I don't know what identity you could possibly be talking about for wurt besides being a follower combat character. If you take all of the merms and the King away all you have left is a vegetarian character that moves faster on Marsh turf.
Merm Civilization expansion through Merm Variants. Using mobs for violence has never been a leaned into feature, it was always a player-driven gimmick. Klei choosing to turn Wurt and her Merms into unstoppable killing machines that are far and away the best combat army in the game without masses numbers anymore is not fundamentally sound.
@@TheBeard777 I appreciate the response though I would argue that game developers don't always determine what can and should be in a game. If players lean into using merms and followers for combat because it's effective or enjoyable then why is that so wrong for klei to double down on it at a concept? I personally enjoy spending a season or two grinding and building a massive army to crush bosses with and I know it's not an unpopular play style and I also know that it's what makes wurt special. I would enjoy seeing other variants of merms though because the RTS play style it's evolving into is fun.
@@willbeard1085 We can have all that, and we do, but it shouldn't be the whole point of the tree. That's the point.
Yeah, it feels like klei is either grossly out of touch with the community, somehow, or they intentionally want us to have the same skill trees by adding absurd, redundant, and unnecessary skills. Who actually uses wilson’s torch skills in a normal play through? I don’t even know why someone would use woodie’s item pick up skill. Winona’s spotlight skills, and so on, and so on. They also really like to create an imbalance between affinities. Maybe in the short term the nightmare fuel and pure horror work better, but as soon as you get a hold of that 1 shard 2 brilliance combo, there’s no reason. Another thing, I WILL NEVER STOP TALKING ABOUT THE PERMANENT INSIGHT. Yeah, it would suck to slog all that back up in a new world, but you’re literally playing an easier game after you have all the insight, which you got from just playing the game. I want more of those wigfrid requirements, but rather as a barrier to say, 5 insight or whatever. It feels like some of these skills are designed for a skill TREE, but we have more of a skill sapling. I don’t think (especially when the insight saves), that the lines of “do this slightly better, do this better, do this much better” should ever exist. That works a lot better say, on the first play through after a skill spotlight update, where you’re gradually growing stronger… or using the too many ite-. But it just starts to feel like unnecessary padding when you get to keep all the points, and now that i think about it, you don’t even have to use mods to cheat the insight in, you can just set all the handy dandy baby settings on and afk at the portal while idk, filing for divorce. The skill tree in general, and more so in the form it’s in now, is just too flawed for dst. I’d rather, say, go to the ruins and find out my character has a special craft at a psuedo science station instead of looking at the blank skill tree and saying “oh, i can make this when i get 8 insight”. Ignore how rambly this is. I think my fundamental issue with these skill trees is that they don’t really reward you adequately, sometimes way too much, sometimes way too little. The problem is just in the nature of the only way to gain insight is by playing the game or just already having had played the game. Doesn’t even make sense in lore. Why would after like, five days or something (i never bothered with getting insight legit, forgive me) that winona would think, “why don’t i just make these catapults, i have made yet, portable?”
To conclude, THEY SWAPPED THEIR NAMED! THE CALIBRATED PERCEIVER IS NOW THE WIDGET DEFLUBBER, AND THE WIDGET DEFLUBBER IS THE CALIBRATED PERCEIVER!!! WHY WOULD THEY DO THAT?!?!?
Years in The Constant for many of our Survivors - which to them is essentially eternity given the implications of The Constant itself - and sometimes all they've learned is how to make their unique craft 5% better... Or like... throw a torch... and even then only one Survivor knows how to do that apparently but ONLY if he chooses that Skill... 😅
I was really looking forward to skill trees, but honestly they've been kinda dissapointing. Winona definitely needed another rework, but idk if MORE CATAPULT DAMAGE is what she needed. I hope Walter's can finally fix him.
If Klei somehow messes up Walter's Skill Tree I'm going scorched Earth on this game... If people thought I was being harsh before...
I agree with Beard that skill trees don't belong in this game and are a forced gimmick. Also I wish the devs switched the game's focus from combat and stressful situations to creative problem solving and exploration.
Don't Starve has the worst combat I have ever experienced. If I wanted to play a combat focused game, I would've played something like Hades or Dota 2. Even Stardew Valley has combat that feels better than this, for crying out loud. You know why I play (and probably why most people do play) Don't Starve? For exploration, base building, farming and interacting with the world. I HATE the waves of wolfs constantly showing up for no reason other than to make the game more challenging and put you on the clock. Tree guards are great on the other hand! Chop too many trees too quickly and get punished. I HATE how playing this game feels like you're on a timer/treadmill while there's nothing interesting to explore in this world and a lil mistake can kill you. Also once you'll die, you'll be like "wow, that was a giant waste of time". I wish Don't Starve got a minecraft treatment where every enemy is basically a koalefant or a tree guard in terms of difficulty but you can still die from a random "creeper" or "zombie" that walks up behind you and the game had actually something interesting to show, like some ancient ruins or puzzles.
"But the game has ruins and puzzles, get filtered lol". WHERE? I keep replaying the same dance of gathering resources to survive fall, winter, spring and summer while I'll occasionaly find some random junk that a random catcoon threw up.
Wurt in game description: "Wurt is a little Merm girl who wants to bring her people back to their former glory..."
Wurt's perks: At home in the swamp
Has big plans for Merm-kind
Is a vegetarian
You SURE the merm-stuff is not an important aspect? cuz a gimmick is the vegetarian part, i dunno, you expected the skill tree to revolve around the vegan life style??? the skill tree lets you bring the mermkin to its "former glory", you can literally build a civilization from scrach
Everything you just listed is her base-kit so... what's your point?! Skill Trees should refine what already exists with slight stretching into unique territory. Not entirely changing the gameplay loop of a character that doesn't fit said gameplay loop in the mind's eye. Wurt is not a combat-focused follower survivor but Klei literally forced her into one to "one-up" their previous Skill Trees so that she didn't feel weak or left behind.
As a new-ish player to the game and someone that doesnt like skill trees I feel like I'd be much more inclined to like them if they werent tied to your account but rather to each world. As they are right now it kind of feels like it ruins the appeal of survival games like these where every world is a fresh start. Also if they were locked behind doing/experiencing things like the skills in wigfrid's headliner tab it'd encourage discovering a lot of new things and give little "side quests" to the new players like me to be pushed to do new things and learn. Honestly after wurt's skill tree released I stopped wanting to play her even though it is exclusively a buff, although maybe thats just me being stubborn.
REAL🥴
Tbh the only thing i didnt like about the update was the mosquitos part of Wurt's skilltree
Mosquito skills - more specifically the immunity - needed to be contained or just made base-kit.
@@TheBeard777 Yup
I wish i could play these characters, but the servers on ps4 are like.. Dead. I cant even join any people unless they live in my country 😭😭😭😭😭
I've also heard that this update has crashed everyone's caves on console or something?! Not fun... Sorry friend!
@@TheBeard777 Yeah the caves ruined two of my friends map since this bug makes it so they cant go back to it
@@TheBeard777 my friends have made a CB server (city building) and i cant join, but all my other friends can. also yeah, the host had to kill toadstool alone
And they bugged caved on console sadly
So I've heard... Sorry you guys are dealing with all that!
i think skill trees shouldn’t carry over from world to world
Agreed! Maybe a couple Insight Point should lock but not all 15.
Sus trees
Yeah somewhat about what I was thinking,your idea of pond jumping or any method to make it easier to be wet as a skill is neat and should be on that part of tree ,but I think their idea is for the player to get mosquitoes and use water baloons.
The only issue with Winona I now have is the catapult speed up tree being silly indeed,but 3 points on generators makes sense
I dont think past skill trees are weak in comparison,except WIlson that one didnt age at all.Wolfgang still has the weirdest one to me,I've even seen people use some amount of Bernie's skills .
Overall rather have these than some of the weird things wigfrid and willow got.
Honestly skill trees should be like an experience base level ups almost like a rouge like game in which you level up depending on your needs, and you restart whenever you enter a new world. Thus, leveling up should be more easier but you wouldn´t enter the game with op abilities.
Can we be real for a sec?
Why can a character have darkness immunity day 1?
I understand that Winona is Charlie's sister and all, and Charlie is showing remorse on Winona, but removing the main danger of darkness is a bit excessive. There's a reason why Celestial Crown is an endgame item, because it provides infinite light. Why does Winona just get a free "I'm safe from darkness" card?
The infinite respawns are stupid too.
Isn't Don't Starve a rougelike survival? Where all your progress can be lost at any moment? Why does Winona, yet again, receive a get-out-of-jail free card?
Filler Skills.
9 number increases as skills. 3 of them are the only ones that are worth choosing, that being all 3 of the generator ones. Why is an ENGINEER, a person with the ingame title of Handywoman, so combat focused with her Catapults to the point that you'd add 6 skills that just increase numbers?!
now, on to Wurt, which in my opinion is a whole lot better than Winona's tree but still lacks.
Why is there 17 skills in Mermdom?
There shouldn't be. I do not care which way you put it, there should not be 17 skills in Mermdom. Bare minimum, the player should be able to fully spec out a branch of the skilltree, which would leave very few insight points for the rest of the tree, but that's the players decision. The answer is the amount of filler/wasteful skills that are there.
They could've brought back Fishermerms from Shipwrecked, since Fish is basically a crafting material to Wurt.
that's all I've got to spout on about, I've got 4th of july stuff to do rather than complain about a game that probably won't even listen to me.
Well said, putting things to text like this over just hearing me utter the words should help those on the fence see what we mean by just how much filler these Trees suffer from. It's honestly ridiculous considering we're not 8 Trees in and Klei still doesn't know what they're doing...
I'm still upset with wurt stuff, it feels so meh
wolfgang need askill tree rework, his is sooo so boring
It feels like they are just trying to make it easier to increase profit. And why did they give her teleportation? They should make a mole charecter that can dig wormholes instead, maybe cap at only being able to have 2 tunnels at a time or something.
Beardo ranting about skill trees in game he's actually playing is much MUCH better than ppl getting enraged over a black samurai.
One is a passionate gamer, the others are the ones we hide our drinks from when they're around.
In my opinion, wurt and winona are the least characters that need a skill tree. They're still the bland boring characters but with just a bigger spark.
I hope you're still not mad from me last time 😅
Was I mad at you?! I'm sorry if I was! Chances are it was text speech being read into wrong because inflection doesn't exist in it all as trust me, if I was mad at you my comment would make that NO secret with my word choices. 😋😁😅
screw wurt she never was fun on comunity servers.
winona now finaly interesting , but a bit no really op like everyone else.
good riddance. who needs balanced characters and a hard survival game?