Secrets of The Staten Island Railway
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- čas přidán 1. 10. 2021
- I'm back from my over 1 month long absence form uploading. It's been difficult now that school is starting but I do have a couple more videos already filmed so stay tuned. If you haven't already, checkout the playlist on my Secrets of The NYC Subway series.
CORRECTION: 0:48 It’s the Baltimore and Ohio Railroad not the Boston and Ohio Railroad. Sorry about that.
Baltimore and Ohio is the "B & O Railroad" property of the Atlantic City-based MONOPOLY game.
@@LatinSith lol
It’s sad how it was once so extensive and now it’s basically nothing
The Staten Island Railroad was very similar to the Long Island Railroad. It was a commuter railroad that also handled freight trains (there was once a lot of manufacturing here back in the day that required rail service) and is connected to the National Freight Rail Network, via the Arthur Kill Rail Bridge into NJ with Conrail. (Ex Central Railroad of New Jersey) And like the LIRR, the Staten Island Railroad also had a "parent owner". The LIRR was a subsidiary of the Pennsylvania Railroad and the SIRR was a subsidiary of the Baltimore & Ohio RR. (This is the reason why the St George - Tottenville portion of the SIRR still has mostly B&O Signals along the line.) The Staten Island Railroad once had three lines: The North Shore, East Shore (some improperly call it the South Beach Line) and the Perth Amboy Subdivisions. Note, the Perth Amboy Subdivision began south of "Clifton Junction", a few hundred feet past Clifton Station beyond Bay Street. (Willow Ave & Langere Place.) It was at Clifton Junction that the East Shore Sub would diverge from the mainline to go to South Beach / Wentworth Ave. (The St George bound platform at Clifton once had an interlocking tower.) The North Shore Subdivision technically ended at Clifton Station north of Clifton Junction. These three lines all had a 600 volt Third Rail power distribution system, just like the N.Y.C.T.A Subway / above ground lines have. Rapid Transit services were discontinued on the North Shore and East Shore Subdivisions in March of 1953, thanks mostly to the INFINITE STUPIDITY of the City of New York, for SUBSIDIZING BUS SERVICE on Staten Island!!!! This all started in the mid 1940's, shortly after WWII ended. Once that happened, this allowed the bus company on Staten Island to start lowering their fares to roughly half the train fare. To add insult to injury, the bus company started to implement routes that would run roughly parallel to the railroad lines and deliberately increased bus service on these routes, just to steal away the ridership from the trains. Between 1946 and 1950, there was about a 60% decrease in ridership on the SIRR and this is what caused the termination of commuter service to Arlington and to Wentworth Ave in 1953. Originally, the B&O / SIRR wanted to eliminate ALL commuter service on Staten Island and just keep the North Shore and Perth Amboy Subdivisions open for freight trains only. (The East Shore Subdivision would be completely abandoned.) When the City of New York got wind of this proposal, they threatened legal action against them and threated to have the B&O ejected from New York City. (Like other rail companies, B&O also operated a car float system into Manhattan, but from Staten Island until 1981.) Then a deal was made that would allow the B&O to still remain in NYC and for the discontinuance of commuter service to Arlington and Wentworth Ave. The City of New York agreed to subsidize commuter service to Tottenville between 1953 and 1971. In 1971, the B&O joined Amtrak and sold the remainder of the Staten Island Railroad's commuter operations to the N.Y.C.T.A, under the conditions the B&O would retain their trackage rights on this line. (This was necessary in order for B&O to still deliver freight to south shore communities until 1985. Then in '85, the Susquehanna took over the SIRR's freight operations.) The North Shore and East Shore Subdivisions tracks had their Third Rail deenergized shortly after commuter train service ended on those lines, the station signage was removed and barricades were installed to stop people from going onto these now abandoned station platforms. In 1955, both the Signal System and the Third Rail distribution system were removed from these two lines. The East Shore Subdivision would be "demapped" and the tracks were removed during the 1960's and early '70's. However, the Right of Way remained mostly intact well into the 1990's and a few of the old stations remained as well. (Mostly in ruins though) Today, there's very little trace of this abandoned branch line to South Beach, except for one or two overpasses that still remain as a reminder of what once was. Unlike the East Shore Subdivision, the North Shore would remain open for freight traffic only until 1991. The North Shore was "single tracked" sometime in the late 1950's or early 60's, when the second main, the Arlington bound track was pulled up. They removed the Arlington bound tracks east of Arlington Yard, just beyond a pair of switches east of the former Arlington Station Site, all the way to St George. The Arlington Station was a wooden structure that sat on concrete supports and was located between South Ave and Grandview Ave in Mariners Harbor. This station was likely demolished sometime in the late 1950's after being abandoned. All of the stations east of Arlington were concrete structures including: Harbor Rd, (now demolished) Mariners Harbor, Lake Ave, Elm Park, Tower Hill and Port Richmond. All of the stations east of Port Richmond were wooden structures and were all demolished and there's no trace of them left, except for the former Sailor's Snug Harbor Station site on Richmond Terrace. The North Shore ROW, east of Elm Park was beginning to become so overgrown with vegetation in the mid '80's, that train crews were having to "hack" through the weeds with a machete to get trains through there. (All freight activity east of Elm Park was stopped in September of 1989 under Delaware Otsego's Management, the parent owner of New York Susquehanna and Western.) In 1991, the Procter & Gamble Co, the SIRR's biggest freight customer decided to close it's Port Ivory Plant on Staten Island and the last freight train was pulled off Staten Island in March of that year. In addition to Procter & Gamble, there was also Terminal Lumber in Mariners Harbor and Cross Sinclair in Elm Park that were also rail served. The North Shore Sub was abandoned altogether after that point until 2007. West of the Union Ave overpass in Mariners Harbor, the ROW has been restored and is used for container trains. (The ROW east of Union Ave is still disused all the way to St George.) As far as the Staten Island Railroad being joined to the New York Subway System goes, a tunnel was dug between Brooklyn and Staten Island in the late 1910's. But no track was ever installed. This link would have connected a line from the BMT Forth Ave Line (N & R Line) from 59Th St to St George in Staten Island. This project was never completed as then, New York Governor Smith defunded this project and ordered the portals to be sealed in concrete on both sides. It was rumored that he did this because he owned stocks of share in the PRR, the B&O's arch rival. You could still find evidence of this construction at both the Brooklyn and Staten Island Sides. At the 59Th St 4Th Ave N & R Station, looking at the tunnel wall of the local trackway will reveal where the unfinished tunnel to Staten Island was covered up. On the Staten Island side, looking out the window to your right, as the train leaves St George before going through the 1880's built rock wall tunnel, you will see a "newer" slab of concrete next to the existing portal. This is where the tunnel portal on the Staten Island side was covered over with concrete, sometime in the late 1910's or early 1920's. From what I understand, there's a proposal to complete this tunnel to Brooklyn, to connect the SIRR to the Forth Avenue Subway in Brooklyn.
Cool
cool but no need to write an essay
Was the Arthur Kill Rail Bridge used by the B&O rr to get into NY. Or was it some other bridge from NJ.
@@whereisthedollarYes, the Arthur Kill Rail Bridge was used by the B&O / Chessie System to get between Staten Island and New Jersey. (Cranford Junction with the CNJ to be exact) Later, the New York Susquehanna & Western. This structure was built in 1959 to replace the original 1880's built, steam powered Arthur Kill Swing Bridge. The original Arthur Kill Rail Bridge was destroyed in 1957, when an oil tanker ship collided with the bridge, knocking it off it's central pivot and rendered the bridge nonoperational. The US Government financially backed the B&O in replacing the bridge. During that time, the B&O used the CNJ's car float system from New Jersey to St George Staten Island.
That was entirely to much lol
The north shore line was still in service up until the early 1990s. It was one track and freight only. They would run from Arlington Yard all the way to Nassau Smelting and Refining in Richmond Valley. They would run this weekdays after the evening rush .
Lots of research done, very cool!!
Very Informative, I always pass these stations
I remember as a kid back in the late 90s when the right of way for the south beach line still existed as well as a few of the overpasses other than the robin road tressel (last surviving remnant)
Fascinating tours of the defunct branches.
If they can expand the system once more, it would become a greater convenience. The only thing is I always believed that the stations shouldn't be free since the MTA is already so broke. Other long-term projects I believe could happen one day includes extending one of the subway routes (or create a new one) to Staten Island. The R's 95th Street terminus was built for a provisional extension into the incomplete Staten Island Tunnel, which I believe should be finished.
Didn’t know that about 95th street, definitely will have to investigate that!
The funny thing about that is they used to charge for the train but when they did, people just used the bus because it was cheaper which made the train free after a point
Isn't there a partially drilled tunnel that goes from 95th about 400 feet under the Narrows?
@@Sonicfalcon16yeah the busses starved the SIR sm, deliberate ofc. I rlly wouldn’t mind paying if it could fun future development, heck even an LRT! Staten Island deserves sm more we are part of the city LOL
@@onelgalagedara4472 🤓☝
A correction if I may - It's Baltimore and Ohio, not Boston and Ohio.
Around 1980, I worked for an engineering firm that was designing some replacement bridges over the abandoned north branch. The station at Lake Av was almost fully intact and ran to Granite AV - I walked the platform, there was no headhouse. The station at Morningstar Rd had it's platforms, but the station headhouse had been burnt out.
The north shore and south shore branches should have never been abandoned. Seven years ago I took a photo of the remains of one of the north shore stations and the woman who lived in the adjacent home complained.
I lived on the SIRT PRINCE'S BAY station for 9 years. 1985-1994. I lived right on the station, the house was right by the stairs going down to the station.
I Love Staten Island Railway ❤
You should do research and a video on the LIRR and all of the abandoned lines that it has over the last 150+ years. To me the SIRR is the little railroad that could.
OR perhaps I should have waited to see the last 10 secs.
I believe for the North Shore branch the Mta is planning to reactivate it as a BRT corridor. Which makes sense for Staten Island imo. Not much has been said about it but it is in the 20 years need assessment page.
I don't think that will happen at this point in time. The Empire Outlets sits on the site that was slated to be the "turnaround", for this "Basically Ridiculous Rapid Transit" System. (The ultimate oxymoron for the North Shore line and it was City Sponsored Bus Competition that killed off commuter rail service.) In addition to that, when the contractors that built the steel work for the Empire Outlets, it was erected to support "Heavy Rail" Rapid Transit and could be used to convert it to "Light Rail". From what I've heard recently, converting the North Shore to a Light Rail System, now seems feasible. In the last roughly 40 + years, the City of New York has spent Millions of Dollars of Tax Payers Money, doing all these feasibility studies on reopening the North Shore, between Saint George and Mariners Harbor. And in that time, the Right of Way has become an "impenetrable forest", east of Mariners Harbor to New Brighton. All of that money that was wasted doing all of these feasibility studies could have been used to restore the North Shore and restoring the Arlington bound tracks, which were pulled up sometime in the late 1950's, or early '60s, when the line was single tracked.
The algorithm just blessed me with this! Great explainer, and well done adventure :)
Very well made video,
I hoped that he would actually walk on the rails but I feared that if he did, he could get arrested.
Especially since he might have had to carry a machete or small chainsaw with him to clear a path!
Great video! Never knew this much history about the SIR. 👌🏼😯
I'd love to investigate more about it in person. Nice job! 💖
Love it, thank you for sharing! Here, the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA) has lots of historical secrets.
Great video, I enjoyed it! To avoid pesky problems like tree leaves and vegetation growth, film in the colder months and you'll be amazed at what you can see.
Awesome video!!! ❤ I was born in SI.
This is so awesome
You're brave for walking around in those neighborhoods lmao
Dangerous neighborhoods on North Shore !
To be honest, i think that staten island needs lines that go to that borough
loved the video thanks
We call it "the Hooterville Trolley" because of its condition, every car has square wheels and goes in a different direction.....
Good job 👏
I wish we could see these stations from the actual platforms
This was a great video
Try to revisit these areas during the winter when there are less leaves and a bit more visibility.
Wentworth Avenue was a tiny station - only long enough for one door.
i really hope the north shoreline of Staten Island railway gets rebuilt soon :( 🚇🚈
It’s planned to be a brt corridor
I for one think that both branches should be revived but also a Western section added to create a proper Staten Island Circle Line that could and should run 24/7/365 and probably be automated with platform screen doors...
I remember I went on the north shore branch in 2018 I walked it after it turned into viaduct I think at west Brighton or snug harbor.. it was to much branches I turned around 😂😂
Do another one pls I like this
There are two options of connecting this to the NJ Transit System. from Tottenville make an Underground platforms for SIRR South Amboy Services and reactivate North Shore Branch towards NJ Transit Elizabeth Railway Station.
Omg i love you fellow new yorker
It would be a good thing if that North shore Branch was reopen. I wish New York City Transit would take it over.
never heard somebody say Staten Island Railway in one single syllable before 😂
If im not mistaken there was a plan to extend the Staten Island Railway to Coney Island
What about west shore tracks?
Hello. Great video, l was wondering if you might know how to find the frequency for the conrail train in Staten Island’s Arlington yard that goes over the AK bridge into jersey. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.
These moves usually occur during the overnight / wee hours of the morning when there isn't that much "water traffic". Conrail has to be given "clearance" by the Sandy Hook Pilots, before the Arthur Kill Rail Bridge can be lowered. This rarely happens during the day.
I used to live in Princes Bay on Staten Island. I would take the STATEN ISLAND FERRY from Battery Park to the St. George ferry Terminal on STATEN ISLAND and get off at Princes Bay walking past the mini mall and deli that sold Bagels. I moved after the Blizzard in 1998. We were called THE FORGOTTEN BOROUGH OF NEW YORK CITY.
I lived through that as a kid and I found it very fun to see my entire door full of snow
Nice but remember freight service to Totenville thru the north line made it well thru the 80s... 90s?
Its was the Baltimore & Ohio railroad. Not Boston and Ohio.
U need to talk about how came they never opened this line for the people on this end
It wasn’t a public train?
What?
I think yrs ago it was . They need to clean over on this end up and make a train to go to the ferry ..
if they expanded it travel would be so much easier
It might probably have random ticket inspections to stop people travelling between the unbarriered stations without paying?I have been on the NYC Subway and PATH but never that one.
Your video is interesting, but you mentioned the Boston & Ohio Railroad, it is the Baltimore & Ohio Railroad
Very interesting
whoops, sorry about that
They were proposing to reopen the line several years ago..But Staten Island politics got in the way! But while they were talking, they suggested that it be Light Rail, which would result in a different rolling stock. And requirements for operating this rolling stock is completely different from.what they were use to. The proposal was just Bizarre! This there was a proposal to.extend the Hudson Bergen Line to Staten island. But wouldn't that now put this line under Port Authority?
Well it just didn't make sense, since many people are traveling from the central part of the Island, not there this line exist.
do you have the address?
If you film in the winter there will be no foliage.
How does the Staten Island railway connect to the national rail network today?
No
It doesn’t. You have to take the bus over the bridge to the city or the ferry
It doesn't connect to any other rail.
The Staten Island railway doesn’t connect, but the freight line uses one of only a few remaining lift bridges in the US to connect to NJ and the Norfolk Southern roads.
Its 'Mariners Harbor, not 'Marine' Harbor?
Mariners Harbor, not Marine Harbor
Baltimore & Ohio not Boston & Ohio.
Staten Island has a gazillion bus lines. Why do they need this Toonerville Trolley line which actually parallels one or more of the bus lines also ending at St. George. In fact, Staten Island has buses that run direct to Brooklyn and Manhattan. MTA loves to waste dollars.
this make no sense, a bunch of Staten Islanders ride the SIR
Yes many of the bus lines at the beginning of the SIRR up until Clinton Station do follow it. The S51, S74, S76 and S78/S52. After Cinton it basically runs paralell to the S78 and S74 bus routes which makes no sense but I guess it is a faster way to travel. And the S40, S44, S46 and S48 basically replaced the Northshore Branch. The S51 and S76 would go on to replace the South Beach Branch
A lot of people use the SIR man even with a fare people would still use it instead of waiting forever for buses that take hours at time
The SIR ALWAYS arrives on time, it’s clean the conductors are helpful stations are safe, quiet, it’s rlly stress free. Even at the edge of tottenville it takes honestly only 30 mins to reach down town, there’s certainly a demand otherwise it wouldn’t be around
R44s these days
I invite you to discover the National Amtrak system > I started on lines like the SIRT too. But there is lots more to see and enjoy before it too is gone. Republicans get back in and most of the rail system will be defunded and gone! Vote Blue in 22
Baltimore and. Ohio, not Boston.
Building structures in a ROW is so foolish. Especially in a city it should be preserved for future use if needed and made into a rails to trails park in the meantime
TALK SLOWER, damn it.
Wonderful video and great information - definitely talk slower to make it better understood. Look forward to more :)
Yeah bro you need to talk slower.
I agree. You have wonderful information but you speak so rapidly and swallow a lot of your words. I was afraid I was the only one who noticed.
Use 0.75x speed then
And he sounds like he tongues his teeth from the inside so it sounds like he has something stuck in his teeth
It’s pronounced mariners harbor not marine harbor MARE-IN-ERS