I was wrong - Mistakes on so many levels; Fixing EV issues
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- čas přidán 13. 07. 2024
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This episode we uncover some potential issues and try to solve them!
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▬ Contents of this video ▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬▬
0:00 - Intro
2:23 - What I did wrong
8:31 - Bus Bar Reassembly
10:34 - Fuses
12:36 - Fixing Electrical Problems
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Tags: EV build,electric vehicle build,electric car build,electric car project,electric vehicle conversion,ev conversion,electric supercar,electric hypercar,electricsupercar,electric Porsche,Porsche ev,How to build an electric car,electric conversion,Electric car conversion,porsche ev,tesla dual motor build,bus bars,bus bar isolation,bus bar coating,bus bar dipping,bus bar plastidip,bus bar battery,bus bar terminal,how to make bus bars - Auta a dopravní prostředky
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My Full sized extcab 23yr old Pickup Weighs 2,200Lbs less [ Your RaceCar/cyberTruck EVs ] are Over Wt Dangerous / Software Based Trash best suited for the Arnold Schwarzenegger like GirlyMan = Waste of EnergyTimeMoney to Move Em / UNFIT / Unsafe for Public / HUMAN Usage.
But does the horn work without putting the car on contact?
Thanks! Just ordered one. With this discount and the $50 coupon it's almost $100 off listed price.
@@xTinBenderX nice!
Most people won’t even admit to making mistakes….. you not only admitted to them but made a whole 15 minute video about it. Good for you!!!!
Thanks for the comment!
I know most people like episodes with big amounts of progress but episodes where a many little things are finally done after being ignored forever or polished or fixed up are my favorites. So this was a really fun episode for me at least.
Thanks!
The use of copper paste was definetely the biggest reason to redo all the busbars!
Thanks for the comment!
Copper paste is ONLY used in metal gears (open) and brake stuff like the pads on cars etc. NEVER for Electric. Only for mechanics because it is softer them steel or iron. So ballbearings and other stuf will not wear out because of iron dust of steel dust from wear. The copper in copper paste will smoothen and polis surfaces instead of wearing them down.
@@stadsimkerijhengeloe.o.4300 the paste sold by EV West is Wurth CU800. It is not for gears or bearings; it is typically used as anti-seize on threaded fasteners.
@@stadsimkerijhengeloe.o.4300 damnnnn... yeah that makes a lot of sense!
i lost it at THESE NUTS 🤣🤣🤣
Just for you!
Yeah, DEEZ NUTZ was a nice touch to the video experience
You could look into brazing the joint of the busbars - this is what we use inside generators on the stators etc although this will then be solid rather than removal. Also just an FYI the sanding wasn't vert flat as you were rounding the edges. It will be ok but a surface table and sandpaper would achieve a flatter finish
I opened this video again so i can finish watching it. Turns out I already did. This is what they call entertaining content. Keep up the good work😉
Glad you enjoyed it!
The bus bars were my thinking too. Not the size bolt/nut. But the sanding thru the nickel to copper. But I just figured you knew better then me and the nickel wasnt an issue with conductivity. That was just mh electrician brain speaking about sanding down to have copper to copper, but I do nickel plated terminals all the time. So figured it was good, but glad to see you did the extra mile and sand down copper to copper bars. Now you will have amazing conductivity through it
Thanks for the comment!
Good on you for being transparent with the mistakes and fixes. Nice to see that you're still learning. Also, thanks for those outtakes with the IR camera; too funny!
My pleasure!
I love that you made this video. Most people would just fix their mistakes off camera and either mention it in passing or not at all.
Where is the fun in that?
I think most CZcams content creators don't even fix the mistakes.
In terms of the contactors, I am using Noalox, but I'm only using it on the aluminum-to-copper connections.
The copper paste is more for mechanical applications and not for electrical applications
Got it!
@@ElectricSuperCar it is used on the backing plate of brake pads and on threads which might get stuck due heat and weather. You also get a graphite paste to prevent a screw on lid to get stuck. Electrical connections must make a good physical contact and as tight as possible to prevent high resistance.
@@ElectricSuperCar you can put grease around a bolt to keep water out but it will not last, you already do the coating
I dig the ir camera I would lose it faster than a 10mm socket
LOL!
Awesome! You are making some REAL progress.
Thanks!
Your innuendo was very subtle but tight on point 😂
Coming along nicely!
Thanks!
This was a cool video. Getting those green marks is cool to see, also cool to see is the fixes being applied. Keep up!
Thanks! Will do!
Great episode, always love to see mistakes, that's where I learn the most! 😅
One suggestion: When sanding the busbars take care to sand them as flat as possible, rounded edges won't make contact increasing the contact resistance.
Great point!
I agree. A flat file would probably be better than the sandpaper used.
FYI, when we try to make a condutive composite from an insulating matrix and some metal filler, we try to use as fibrous a metal as possible (conductive epoxies, etc.), wheras for a lot of other uses the metal is more ball-shaped, and doesn't have a lot of "reach" in the matrix and generally doesn't bridge. My point being, they generally don't get conductive by mistake, somebody has to make an effort to make it so.
Good to know!
Thanks for the confirmation on the Wurth CU800 "terminal paste" (which is actually an anti-seize product for threaded connections). The bulk conductivity test result is not surprising; the Safety Data Sheet says that the product is recommended for use as anti-friction agent and lubricant, and is composed of
Distillates (petroleum), solvent refined heavy paraffinic - 60% to 80%
Copper metal powder - 5% to 10%
Yeah, paraffin (think candle "wax") is a pretty good insulator.
I asked Wurth this question:
"Is this product suitable for use between contacting parts of an electrical connection?"
The response was:
"The term Very High Resistance is for high temperature and high pressures.
CU 800 It does contain copper metal which is highly conductive. The CU800 could be used
on battery cable connection with the battery post , where it will help prevent corrosion, and help with
conductance, but more for preventing corrosion."
... and it went on with information about other products.
Loving the build, can't wait to see wheels turning.
You and me both!
@@ElectricSuperCar To make the wheels spin is the easy part.
I think your videos will be a pioneer for a lot of future builds. Admitting to mistakes that you are learning from will help people not make the same mistakes. Thank you and keep it up!
Thanks for the comment!
The trick about building something that has not been built before is that it is inevitable that mistakes will be made. It is nice that you don't have a big ego, and can roll with the punches and listen to well meaning advisors to work out a better plan B to solve these issues. We all benefit from seeing both the progress and the setbacks.
Exactly!
lt is the detail that matters. Fixing those busbar connections and making them much more robust both mechanically and electrically means you'll never have to worry about them. At some point you'll be making the battery work hard and poor connections will bring you undone. lt would be like skimping on the fuel system in an ice car. lt will let you down and the failure could be catastrophic.
Love that you have shared the information. There is no downside to this . Everyone benefits from your shared experiences. Btw. Also love the saying " it is never too late to make a good decision " . That's gold.
No body bolts parts of busbars to other parts busbars or have them made of more than one peace. Only a car mechanic can do that.... Like a exhaust pipe... twenty parts, .. LOL pls take some better advice from real electricians, NOT from mechanics.
Thanks for the comment!
6:50 - rounded edges on those connections
you are such an inspiration, fantastic stuff
Thank you so much 😀
I don’t have any knowledge to add to help with your mistakes, but I’ll still be here to watch the progress!
Thanks for tuning in!
Awesome ✌🏻✌🏻✌🏻
Feeling great😃😃😃
Keep it up 💪🏻👍🏻💪🏻
Best wishes 🎉🎉🎉
Thank you so much 😀
Amazing video… as always
Thanks!
I wouldn't have though to 3D print the bus bars to get a prototype, nice idea! interesting about the copper paste. I have some carbon paste I wonder if that is also less conductive than one might think.
Only one way to find out!
3:05 GoT Him!!! (Thank you for making me laugh)
👍
Good episode as usual. I actually think your busbar screws were sized correctly initially. By going to an M8 you lost contact area. I think the idea behind that copper paste is that the clamping force of the joint deforms the copper particles to help reduce contact resistance. I agree though that each of those changes will likely not have a big impact on the busbar performance.
It also reduces busbar effective cross-section, but they're so thick that might be okay.
You should get a stationary grinder with a 90° guide to get those bars flat. Grinding it guided by hand is anything but flat. Nethertheless impressive work and buildup knowlege.
That would be awesome
In theory to blow a fuse instantly you need to pull 2.5 x it's rated value (600 amp x2.5 1500 amps) but if you are pulling that kind of amps it will weaken the fuse and over time it will blow at or near its rate and sods law it will happen when you are nowhere near help ???
What if the copper paste is dry, is it conductive then?
About the handbrake (park brake), isn't it the case that if you're not wearing a seatbelt (the system does not see it), you can't disengage the handbrake?
I'll give it a try
Elektronik Parkingbreaks in german Cars work Like this:
Engin Start/run + driverdoor Open + Shiftstick out of pos. N = Parkingbreak closed (Automatic transm. / DSG).
Dont know how it is in your car if it has man. Transmission.
The Elec. parkingbreak is i think a little Electricmotor at the rear breakingpillors.
Some Cars from Europe (Renault) dont start/Drive After a Crash with blown Airbags. The ECU Interrupt the ignition and maybe Block Parkingbreak?
The message that appears on the dash when I release the e-parkbrake is "press the brake pedal"
Kudos for making the right decision a little late, as you put it.
The fuse diagram was very interesting, that was new to me.
Selling the subframe would have put it to better use, could have really helped someone with his build :( And probably got you more mone
It was on ebay for months
@@ElectricSuperCar Oh okay, then I never said anything. Just surprises me that that wouldn't go ...maybe I'm projecting myself onto others.
The best electrical connection is Gold… Gold plating the connection is better that copper on copper
Actually copper has better electrical conductivity than gold. Copper is 59 S/m but gold is only 45, barely more than aluminum's 38. The best is silver which is about 5% better than copper. Gold plating is often used on connectors because it doesn't corrode easily. On a clean airtight connection copper on copper is better (and cheaper).
You need a better tester for resistance. that puny multimeter only works for low resistances.
I also tested with a loss of isolation meter (for high resistance) it confirmed that the substance is an insulator not a conductor
Now that the busbars have been sorted out, I would also rebuild the motor and use an "openinverter" to reverse the direction of rotation by software....
Do they have a controller that will control both motors with traction control?
I wish I could get paid from all the mistakes I made on my Aventador! Great video.
Paid in experience!
@@ElectricSuperCar Right?🤣
Nice 👍🏽 I am waiting for new video.
Coming soon
awesome)🔥
Thanks 🔥
What is the process for storing the battery while you do the build?
I have a couple of Teslas, and they are driven daily and constantly plugged in, so I've never seen how the ECM treats the car if I left them for several months. My app lets me pick the SOC, so the Tesla charger may not even adjust for storage if it's an actual issue.
Storage is not a big issue. They are not connected to anything so they hold their charge remarkably well. I usually keep a plastic film over them to keep dust and debris off
I thought it was more complicated. Thank you for replying.
Smodcast listener? :)
The copper particles in the terminal paste force themselves trough the corrosion and grease of the busbars when you tighten the connection together, especially useful when making busbars with corrosive materials like aluminium or copper. Try to measure the voltage drop(with current) with and without paste, you'll find that the paste improves the connection significantly + the oily substance will prevent / reduce the corrosion speed of the base material.
Just tried it on some extra bus bars. It does not improve the connection. Also with being completely encapsulated with a rubber coating, I do not worry about corrosion.
Once again, a great video. So many things to learn from.❤ as for the hand brake, why don't you just skip the E-brake and straight up buy a hydraulic hand brake with a lock on ir this way you have a drift brake and park brake with a simple and cheap solution at the same time. I can even design you a stock looking brake hand brake lever as well. It would be awsome..
A hydraulic handbrake is not a legal or effective parking brake.
@@brianb-p6586 it is perfectly legal as long as it's:
A-not sticking too far up that would be considered a safety hazard in case of an accident
B- it's lockable and it wouldn't release by bump or with reasonable force determined by local sherrif who will sign the papers for DOT to register the car as road worthy.
@Ianjalili I suppose local rules vary, but typically hydraulic parking brakes are not legal because they don't reliably hold pressure - it has nothing to do with the handle.
@@brianb-p6586 probably yes rules vary, maybe those I saw were just overseen but yes you are right it's not the most reliable solution out there. But it's both cool and easy to implement.
I would be tempted to solder the connections
Solder is much less conductive than copper. Solid copper connections are better.
@@eDoc2020 i would crimp the wires then solder to fill the gaps between the wires. It can also prevent wicking and corrosion
@@martinbeaumier7172 When stranded wire is _properly_ crimped there aren't any gaps. If you add solder you create a brittle interface which is much more likely to break. If you are concerned about corrosion from moisture wicking you should use "special" wire, I believe tinned copper strands are common in marine wire.
Having said that soldering after crimping isn't terrible. While it _mechanically_ weakens the joint it can _electrically_ strengthen a low-quality crimp. If you are putting a blue crimp on 18AWG wire using pliers you will _not_ have a high quality crimp.
If you want to know how to do connections properly look up NASA wiring guidelines. They're freely available online.
This is easily becoming one of my favorite CZcams channels. And another “deez nuts” reference! What else could one want???
LOL! 🤣
Got em!
do you have a css install guide.
Yes
Was the subframe damaged?
Nope
hahahahaha! You had me laughing at deez nutz.
90% of these small issues you had listed? Would have showed up as an error on the stock dash..... :) (35yr Porsche guy)
Couldn't you have sold the subframe? Was there a problem with it?
I could have tried
That makes sense, but how many people damage a subframe and need a replacement? If they're buying a salvaged replacement, they're probably buying the whole suspension with it, which isn't available in this case.
! thing I haven't done wrong is leaving algorithm comments on these videos 👍
Thanks for that!
It might not be relevant, but my understanding is that the m8 bolts are meant to be conductive, otherwise you are decreasing the copper to copper area by making the holes larger. The bolts you used look to be anodized or otherwise coated to be black, and may not be as conductive as required.
Steel is 20x less conductive than copper. You should never "plan" to have them conduct electricity as a benefit. If they were truly insulated that would be better.
However, they should be evaluated such that the electricity that does pass through them will not cause them to melt.
Could you not have sold the subframe instead of recycling? Seems like a fully formed piece of aluminum would be worth way more than the material price.
I suppose you could
If would, if there were a market for it.
😀 👌 👍 .
Thanks for the comment!
@@ElectricSuperCar You are welcome, thank you for sharing.
Everyone is making mistakes, but not everyone admit it :) more more more dogieeeeee! :P
Got it!
👍💪✌
Thanks for the comment!
Copper is soft enough that as long as it’s properly torqued minor surface imperfections get flattened out. If it does cause a problem a lead washer can solve things.
I’m so glad that you’ve removed the copper paste. As I understand it copper paste should only be used where you have two dissimilar metals pressing hard against each other like pistons and break pads.
Instead of recycling the parts you don't use wouldn't be better to sell them as replacement parts? I think you would make more money off them.
Imo, A person who does not accept the mistakes can not become a better person
Well said!
One point of contention, you got the surfaces smooth and free of plating, but the way you sanded them does not leave a super flat surface. you are going to have more material removal around the edges making them convex.
I agree - smooth is not necessarily flat.
Should look at the camera and not the screen.
LOL! I am looking at the teleprompter!
@@ElectricSuperCar you have a teleprompter?! Ok, that’s pretty cool 😁
Your testing methodology for the copper terminal paste is flawed, and performing a different test may actually prove useful in your specific case. The correct test is to compare the resistance of two terminals connected without the paste, and two terminals connected with the paste. Clean the terminals, apply the correct fastener and torque, then test the resistance between the connected wires. Perform the same test with the paste, and then compare the resistance.
The reason I believe it might benefit your situation specifically is that your terminals are not flat. The sanding pad you used is flexible, and it's pretty clear that the copper around the edges and near the hole is lower than the copper away from the edges and hole. You would need to sand on a surface plate or glass plate to ensure flatness.
The copper terminal paste will fill the uneven areas with copper beads, which will form to the uneven surfaces and provide additional points of conductivity. The carrier - oil, wax, etc - in the copper paste will squeeze out. This material is nonconductive, and the reason your test failed. The point of the carrier is to distribute the copper pieces evenly so when pressure is applied there's a sufficient amount of copper material to touch both terminals.
It may not matter, and your sanding might be good enough, particularly since you're using larger fasteners, can apply more force, and the copper may crush against the other surface and supply a sufficient connection, so it might not matter. But you have the material, so it might be worth a test, and a difference of even a few milliohm, across as many connections as you need to make, will have a measurable impact on the power performance of the pack as a whole.
fair point
@@ElectricSuperCar You can ignore my comment. The "Wurth CU800 Copper Terminal Paste" you have is not meant for this application, and doesn't describe the compound my comment is in reference to. What you have there is common copper anti-seize paste, which is a high temperature anti-seize compound intended to prevent corrosion in brake pads and similar use cases. It is not meant to improve electrical connections, other than to prevent them from corroding together.
Obviously you're already past this part anyway given you've coated the bars, and as long as your connections have low enough resistance for you then they don't need any further treatment.
Your ideas of a lighter fuse is wrong. Fuses will melt when meet there maximum rating in amps. There are "slow fuses" but they are used for big lack applications. Two fuses is not very wrong if installed corectly, one is defenitly better. But lower is a very bad idea. You will brake many, when you use a bit of the power... because of the peak current when starting the power. Slow fuses are there to allow short higher peak currents, but that is not minutes, not even ten seconds, only milliseconds or tens of a seconds. You need to use the right fuse, so max power plus something.... I would go to plus 10% or even 20% more than max. Or equal, but than with a slow fuse... Good luck.
ps If max power is not your goal, but it is max safety for your equipment is your goal, perhaps testing for the first time, than you can take a smaller fuse, or same as your max expected current draw. This is only for maximum safety and much less change of damage if anything is wrong. But expect it to blow when you start up hill, full power or really hard accelerate from lower speeds... Or when you use max re-gen.
Thanks for the comment
I think you are mistaken about how long it takes fuses to blow. Take a closer look at the chart in a fuse datasheet. To blow a _fast-blow_ fuse in under a second you need around 3x the rated current. Slow-blow even more than that. I wouldn't go more than a few percent over the current required when flooring the car. Keep in mind all the wiring also needs to be enough to handle the fuse's rating.
Any ola electric users here? Like if u are
I would like to be. They aren’t available in my country.
Everybody is always de-Burr-ing things. Isn't that some form of genocide or something?🤔
depends on the context could be a freedom of speech issue if we deburr the comments :P
@@marcg2233 lol
You recycled the subframe for $27 instead of selling it on ebay? 🫣💀
It was on ebay for 6 months. No interest
@@ElectricSuperCar oh wow, okay then that makes sense. Figured some guy would have wrecked his car and wanted a cheap used replacement to get her going again. Been watching too much Mat Armstrong lol
@@smnkm4ehfer Brand new second hand! 🤪
@@ElectricSuperCar lmao 🤣