DCS: AH-64D | Attacking Moving Targets with Target State Estimator (TSE)
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
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Useful Commands AH-64D Controls:
Axis Commands
- RHG MAN TRK Controller - X axis
- RHG MAN TRK Controller - Y axis
Right Handgrip
- RHG LRFD Trigger - First Detent
- RHG LRFD Trigger - Second Detent
- RHG Sight Slave Button
Left Handgrip
- LHG Linear Motion Compensation (LMC) Button
- LHG Weapons Action (WAS) Switches
- LHG TADS FOV Switches
- LHG Weapon Trigger Switches
In this DCS: AH-64D video, we’ll examine the addition of the Target State Estimator, or TSE, to greatly assist with engaging moving targets with the gun and rockets.
When using the TADS as the sight, TSE allows to determine actual target velocity relative to the TADS line of sight. Using laser-ranging, embedded INS and GPS systems, TADS slew rate, and the air data system, the TSE compares aircraft movement rates from target rates. Once the actual target rate is known, the appropriate amount of lead can be calculated to account for weapon time of flight and required lead. Naturally, this will be essential for accurate fires when using Linear Motion Compensation, or LMC. The most important takeaway is that TSE will provide accurate lead against moving targets when engaged through the TADS.
When using the IHADSS, lead is not calculated.
A very important item to understand is to avoid range jumping. This can happen when you switch between range sources, and it will appear as the TADS line of sight jumping away. This can easily happen if you do not establish an accurate range to target before initiating TSE. Therefore, it is important to use automatic ranging and perform a first detent ranging pulse of the target before to committing to a TSE/LMC track.
To use TSE, you will first want to set the manual range from B6 to A, or automatic, on the keyboard unit. Although a default, manual, or “stale’ range can be used, it is more effective to use AUTO ranging.
Make sure the laser and weapon system are armed and we’ll select the gun for this first demonstration.
Setting the TADS as the Sight, either slew or slave the TADS line of sight to the target area and perform a first detent laser ranging that sends a three-pulse ranging distance to the target area.
With the TADS over the target, engage the second detent of the laser for continuous ranging, enable LMC, and use the thumb force controller to track the moving target. The key is not to rush it and allow TSE to gather enough data to calculate proper lead. I handy tip is to say “T-S-E, catch up to me” with a steady LMC track and only then fire.
With the target in range and a good LMC track with TSE, fire the weapon.
The list of targets for George now shows the unit name THIS IS AMAZING!!!!!
4:18
This!!! Nearly more important to know what George is actually shooting at, than the whole TSE feature! Thanks for listening ED, this is a godsend.
Those first minutes of flight were just amazing. Let's not take for granted how gorgeous everything looks now in DCS, especially at low level. We see grass, leaves, the structure of houses and buildings, even the individual rocks in a stone wall....As a flight sim enthusiast for 30+ years, this is really a dream come true. And this module is just...beyond amazing.
Thank you, ED!
I sometimes practice doing the same thing - fly around slowly around some fields in ground effect. It’s great fun, really good for practicing control of the aircraft, and everything looks so cool.
@@henrikoldcorn Ever try that in Alt+F1 view and flying really fast? It's great in the P-51. No cockpit whatsoever.
@@rc3754 I haven’t - I will when I get back home!
Keep the tutorials coming I'm loving this module
Dang! This is a great, long range feature! Thank you, Wags!
This is quite a game changer! I practically never used the 30mm on moving vehicles, only on infantry! This module is getting even more amazing!
Amazing work, Wags. More and more the Apache is becoming the lethal machine it is meant to be. As a side note, congratulations for the team. As an engineer myself, I can only imagine the coding behind it, the mathematics that make it all work.
I don’t think it has to be all that complicated - the laser rangefinder combined with the angle of the TADS is continually spitting out coordinates. It’s pretty simple to go from that to a speed to a position in the future. Perhaps it’s even estimating non-linear, not that much harder.
Thank you for the update news, Wags! This will change so much in the Apache and make the already awesome module much more enjoyable.
Multicrew sync issues - the slaved / de-slaved status for the TADS often reports inverted between front and back seaters.
Also, TSD target points & waypoints not syncing between pilot and CP/G
Big love to ED - you guys are bringing my childhood fantasies to life! Keep up the hard work and take my money
I absolutely love this model and am so exited about what's to come for it ! Don't know when the next dev "sprint" is for this but I'm waiting like an impatient child :)
Especially new flight models and the FCR ! You people at Eagle Dynamics make dreams come true really.
Excellent ! Looking forward to the next big update.
Thanks for sharing.
Man, I love how simple you make these videos. You explain it so clearly and go into detail but not too much detail.
It's like one of those military PowerPoints except with fun added and hands on right away.
Great video buddy! Your getting me through my Apache learning.
I'm just super excited for the FCR... the Jane's Longbow inside me wants to come out.
"What do an Apache and an Abrams have in common?"
Now, if only DCS tanks would receive fire control systems simulation of their own...
If ED would make multicrew vehicles with realistic operation and interior stations....It would explode the sim into a huge audience. DCS/ArmA/SteelBeasts...bring it!
@@SsgtHolland That's a wet dream, I was thinking of an ArmA/DCS/Gunner HEAT PC merger, with a global map like MSFS has. The absolute INFINITE possibilities
@@dragosgeorge2085 Look up High Level Architecture / Distributed Interactive Simulation. The idea was up for a while now, so it's rather disappointing that nothing hit the consumer market to this day. I won't be surprised if the military training counterparts of ArmA and Steel Beasts do support this interplay.
As for a global map like in MFS, I'm afraid that will always be a pipe dream, since not every company is Microsoft - and sim-related ones especially don't seem to have the resources. At most it will be like Outerra / Titan Vanguard.
@@getsideways7257 Very well pointed about the global map, and thanks for the info about DIS man!
@@dragosgeorge2085 You are very much welcome! Having DCS, Steel Beasts Pro PE and ArmA play on the same battlefield and exchange data in real time was my dream for many years, it's great to see other people with a similar vision.
Thank you Wags for another great tutorial!
Its AMAZING the amount of detailed features ED implements in the AH64D, its UNFORTUNATE that in a multiplayer environment, flying as a solo pilot , we are unable to capitalize on the gunner controls and are left with George's limited controls which is frustrating at times. In the future, will it be possible to switch pilot/CPG positions while in a multiplayer environment? If not, can ED at least tweak George's target list from an up down list to a 4 way selection for a faster selection or some kind of prioritization lest that SAM/AAA which can shoot you ends up at the bottom of a long list.
Thank you ED for your impressive implementation of the AH64D, used to fly Jane's Longbow back in the day and did not think this detailed work was possible. Now, if only the FCR..... :) Great job ED team!
czcams.com/video/Gu_WMMQMzuc/video.html
Much needed addition to the M230. Definitely looking forward to this.
Is LRFD 1st Detent required for the TSE to engage properly? Or will TSE work as long as 2nd Detent is giving accurate ranging info?
It will still work, but using an Auto range or getting a laser range prior to engaging the TSE helps minimize the range jumps, which modify the LMC slew rates.
Very cool! Can’t wait to get going with this!
Super cool feature and another great video. Many thanks Matt. Kind regards Nick
Great video, though would have liked to see the opposite situation as well, i.e. stationary target and moving heli. That's been a big source of frustration for me in the past.
It works the same way.
@@MattWagner I’m guessing the TSE requires use of the LMC as shown in the video, correct?
Oranges on the trees at the beginning look ripe for picking.... Nice to see George in the mix here.
That accuracy
Just takes a little practice.
Very cool. Lookin forward to it
Amazing! Can't wait! Will CP/G George auto-use this to gun targets when ordered from the back seat?
Yes
Awesome! Do I HAVE to use the quick burst of the lazer (first detent) before a continuous lazer (second detent) or can I just use the continuous lazer?
darn, i was realy hoping we were gonna get the new Gorge interface/ targetselection with todays update
Thanks Wags!
I kind of understand now how the gunner in that firebirds movie shot down that Draken jet with rockets.
How does Wags engage the Target compensator before firing? Is it a new command on the TDC grips?
i wanna get this heli so badly
jo!!! F4 phantom, what are you doing here?
where
Where? 👀
will GEORGE AI CPG have access to TSE ? Will he automatically use it?
Yes
@@MattWagner amazing, thanks!
out of curiosity will this possibly make George a little more accurate with moving targets with hellfires?
Is there a manual target tracking mode only? I can't believe that such modern helicopter have no automatic target tracking like POINT mode at A10C.
Image Auto Track (IAT) is in development.
Last vid you gave some updates on upcoming updates. Any word on full gun ammo?
We hope to later, but we many much higher priorities first.
2:09 Is it necessary to set MAN RANGE to AUTO when using TADS/TSE? I thought it would only be needed when using the gun with the IHADSS.
Yes
The lead is done automatically when continuous lasing and linear compensation? (or whithout compensation but following the target?) We don't have to press any button?
The TSE is engaged when the 2nd detent of the laser trigger is pressed. It will still work without the LMC; but when using the LMC, the TSE modifies the LMC slew rates based on range, which is why you want to minimize the large "range jumps" Wags mentioned.
So the TSE is always on and ready to go ? I don't see any new binding or something you'd have to press. So I assume you're just doing a normal LMC aim but this time with the TSE feature.
Yes
@@MattWagner awesome. Thanks Wags.
Topmoumoute ;)
Still a bit confused, Hellfires doesn't use TSE, but TSE still makes Hellfire more accurate when attacking moving targets?
Hellfires just home in on a laser spot, but the LMC when coupled to the TSE will assist the gunner in keeping the TADS laser spot on the target.
The TSE is only in the TADS, not the missiles.
@@Raptor_9 Did you mean that before we got the TSE the laser is hard to keep on a moving target even if we use the LMC, this is the reason why Hellfires are very hard to hit a moving target right now in the game?
@@amaydayhaha2413 Just from my brief glace it does seem that TSE is still providing all the normal benefits minus the lead like it does in the case with cannon and rockets. In the instance of using hellfire ordnance it should still help the LMC with relative movement of the aircraft to make it easier to maintain proper sight alignment.
@@michaelpape6605 Yes it seems to be what you said, we will find it out a few days later, thank you
Since I only play in single player mode, wonder if it works that way as well from the pilot seat
The pilot does not have TADS.
Does the TSE work automatically in the background or do you have to press something for it to activate?
Yes, just LMC with 2nd detent lase.
@@MattWagner Ah nice! Is LMC required for it to work? I can aim much smother manually then with LMC because the acceleration of LMC is way too fast and I simply can't control it.
@@techjunky9863 Works great here, as you can see in the video. It is good to have a good axis controller assigned to the LMC.
When setting manual ranging to « auto »; it remains on 3000 in the weapons page; in the beginning; it used to show « A » when set on auto. Is this a bug?
No, this is correct.
@@MattWagner Hi Wags, thank you for your reply! so, is there anyway to see if you have set manual range to auto? As is there a viual confirmation of the current auto range setting?
PS: thank you for all the great work you and ED deliver; you spoil us!!
@@MrVarry Yes, on the left side of the High Action Display on the IHADSS.
@@MattWagner oo, great!! thank you 🙂
Firstly, I do not own the Apache. Doesn't the Ka-50 do this automagically when you lock a target and lase it? This looks a bit simple and antiquated. What am I missing? It feels like he's following the target manually instead of contrast locking.
It's a similar system to how tank and ifv sights work, rather than airplane targeting pods. That's the mindset they were coming from when designing. I guess auto tracking is less important when you have a guy dedicated to aiming. That said the contrast locking is coming later, with the multi-target tracker functionality. CasmoTV though was of the opinion that it wasn't used that much irl because it wasn't as reliable, and afaik the consensus is that targeting pods in planes are a bit too good at maintaining tracks Vs real life as well.
Yes, IAT is one of the next items to add.
Will this have any effect on the weird offset you get when firing the gun at targets off to the side of the aircraft with the gun?
Firing to the side you need to add in lead or delay, depending on if you're moving, or your target is.
@@dannyd7714 Shouldn't have to with the TADS. The gun's point of impact is also significantly different from point of aim, getting worse the further off to the side the shot is taken. This is something Casmo complained about in one of his videos as well.
If you through the HDU, no, nor should it. TSE lead is for the TADS only.
@@dannyd7714 With this new feature the guy should be more accurate with the tads. It will lead the shot for you
@@MattWagner so is the offset between point of aim and point of impact/center of the fired group when firing at targets off to the side of the aircraft using the TADS at zero airspeed a bug? Almost seems like the gun and the TADS are out of coincidence.
Damn do we really need first detent laser ? No place left on my xbox pad to bind it snif
This is a study-grade military simulation, not Minecraft. Time to upgrade your controls, son.
@@sabatheus have warthog hotas, MFD cougar and xbox pad to simulate the TEDAC. I think I am ok. Just wasn't using the first detente until now because I kept bindings for the FCR...
@@Zarma4074 Ok, good! heh heh I'm just tired of kids rolling in here thinking they can just hook up a game controller and "wing it". xD
FYI 2nd detent is also doing 1st detents action at the same time.
and @sabatheus you do know that even the SME's basically say to use a Xbox or PS controller and just map 2nd detent for the front seat. Brad posted the bindings people needed specifically for a XB/PS controller.
@@starfleetau but we don’t know if the TSE works with 2nd detent
Where is the TSC + Follow Me command?
It’s not a command. It’s the time you track the target in LMC to get a good TSE lead.
@@MattWagner Oh ok. I see
Ka-50 > Apache