This was a wonderful episode and loved this scene. :) They are perfect for each other. And I loved it how Seven made both of them question each other’s motives on this episode, only come to find out, Seven goes coo-coo for Cocoa Puffs in this episode, trying to process too much information at once.
Not sure if I'm wrong but i've read that this illogical relationship-thingy was quite illogical and unexpected for the actors as well... Still, it hurts like hell thinking about how this ended. .__. J/C FOREVER
IIRC, Kate Mulgrew laughingly said that her real-life husband worked on the show and didn't want her having romantic scenes with Chakotay. He thought that the actor was too handsome and was jealous of their chemistry.
My head canon is still that once they got back to the Alpha Quadrant, Janeway's (admittedly necessary) rules on fraternizing were relaxed, while 7/Chakotay went nowhere. Then, there was ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️!
"Half the crew on deck 5 getting pregnant" 0:18 - LOL! Life on a starship with no contact with anyone else must be like life in a really small town. Everyone knows everything about everyone else, and the rumors fly whether they're true or not :-D
@@aeroripper Robert Beltran wanted more out of his character because he felt Chakotay didn't have much of an arc, so they came up with him and Seven being a couple.
Well, as Captain, it's against Starfleet protocol for Janeway to become romantically involved with one of her subordinates. Still doesn't explain why they hooked Chakotay up with Seven with zero build-up.
Picard said in TNG that Starfleet doesn't have rules like that, outside of general conduct while on duty rules. He dated the astrometrics lady from his ship...and found he wasn't so great at separating professional and personal with her (but he mostly could with Beverly...because she was more his equal) - he didn't stop seeing her because of any rules though, just personal issues. Chakotay is a different story though. One, he's not really Starfleet - he already defied Starfleet by being Maquis. Second, he *was* a captain...he's trying to get his crew home just as much as she's trying to get hers there - they just have to do so using her ship, since his went boom...and thereby under her rules. Starfleet protocol, the captain with the bigger/better ship is in charge. They are equals in that sense, just equals under her roof. And third, they're way out in the Delta quadrant for what started as a 70 year journey home. Even the Puritans at Starfleet wouldn't expect one if their captains to remain celibate for 70yrs 😏 They'd be all for her pairing up and creating a family as well...as Starfleet tends to foster traditional family values (if not traditional family appearances... compositions - your family is what you make it, whatever the sex/species/engineering).
The Seven/Chakotay thing happened because they had to justify the plot of the finale with Admiral Janeway going back to save Seven from dying and Chakotay never recovering from her death. For me, it was a travesty of storytelling lol
But this one would have made sense. The organic direction of the story and character arcs themselves kept naturally inclining towards it, but it was Mulgrew who artificially stepped in to request derailing that plotline. For the sake of the story, I'm sorry she did that. I'm a fan of platonic character love when it makes sense (I think it detracts from the depth of story when writers unnecessarily turn every love into romantic love), but there are still times when romantic love _is_ the realistic direction that makes sense for a pair of characters (and in this case, the beginning of that arc actually happened onscreen across many episodes, because that had originally been the plan) so when there's a sudden last minute flip to not uniting the characters, it feels... weird. And when the other characters the would-have-been couples end up with (e.g. in this case, Chakotay ending up with Seven), it just doesn't resonate, as it never had the same lead-up to make the relationship make sense.
Tendi and Rutherford's relationship over on Lower Decks in a nutshell. It's been pseudo-romantic without fully crossing the line for almost the entire show's run, so unless it's presented really casually, having them get a relationship upgrade in the upcoming fifth and final season would likely come off as insincere.
“Seven was malfunctioning, we didn’t have that excuse.” Give yourself some credit guys. You didn’t buy it at first, she presented a literal mountain of evidence.
Superb episode. I also thought the chemistry was clear. The conspiracy was also brilliant. Was there ever an explanation for what the zoomed in shot of the Caretaker station and that blue glow was? Plot twist - there was a conspiracy the whole time.
The computer confirmed the tractor beam was targeting the secondary reactor but could not determine a ship or if the energy was indeed a tractor beam> Chakotay confirmed Tri-Cobalt devices aren't normally part of a Starships payload. The problem is if a cloaked ship pushed the reactor into rift made by the Tri-coblat devices then that ship would have been destroyed by the blast. None of this was ever explained.... It's likely there was no cloaked ship. I think Suspiria is the one that took the reactor. This could have been a failsafe incase the array was destroyed because of how valuable they were.
@@saquist Yes, good point. I just feel that honestly the source of the tractor beam would have been fabulous to have in the Voyager Finale. E.g. if during the plot of the very final episode, Voyager for instance goes back in time to prevent the Borg from acquiring the reactor in order to prevent the Borg from using it to reach Earth almost instantaneously. And that the source of the tractor beam is in fact Voyager itself (from the future) operating under some type of rudimentary cloak. The Voyager uses the reactor to get back home. The rift could be explained to be some type of Borg conduit (already in the finale in any case). Just an idea.
There's a saying " Keep your friends close, your enemies closer". Captain Janeway is having dinner and being friendly with him to make sure she knows what he's up to. Being as he's Marquis; her original mission was to capture him and his associates, then bring them back for trial. She's not going to fully trust any of them, however she's lost crew and needs replacements. She's not prepared to have them sit in the ship's brig for however long it takes to get home whilst her crew are busting their nuts to get the ship home.
Apparently, the writers hooked up Chakotay and Seven because Robert Beltran (besides all his other problems with the show) couldn’t stand Jeri Ryan. The writers took the chance to kick him back one last time as the show wrapped.
1:07 I actually HATED this scene. After this many years together, all their weekly dinners plus the in-between dinners, holodeck visits, away missions, etc, the idea that EITHER of them would suspect the other of doing something nefarious just because Seven spun some conspiracy theory made yell at my TV when this ep. was aired. I kept saying, "Go TALK to him/to her!!" Chakotay and Kathryn suddenly losing their trust in one another was lazy writing. It should not have taken an hour to get to Kathryn's conclusion that "We've been through too much to stop trusting each other."
I can believe that Chakotay would start questioning whether he could trust Janeway. He's been burned too many times. On his Maquis ship, he trusted Tuvok and Seska as much as the rest of his crew. Both were double agents, and he never even suspected them. So it's understandable that he would begin doubting his own ability to judge the character of the people he serves with. His gut tells him to trust Janeway, but his gut has let him down before. As for Janeway, she trusts Chakotay, but she also trusts Seven. And Seven is normally as rational and logical as a Vulcan. Janeway was faced with an impossible choice. She handled it about as well as anyone could. It's clear that Chakotay and Janeway don't want to stop trusting each other. But they can't dismiss Seven's evidence without a good reason. When they find one, it's obvious how relieved they both are.
Seven of Nine was probably correct. Janeway was working for section 31 all along. If the marquee and cardassian info from accepting chakotays crew into voyager didn't happen to corrupt the data she was going through she would have reached the conclusion Janeway was in on a plot involving her
Indeed. They never did fully explain just what that blue glow in the computer captured image of the Caretaker station exploding was. It did indeed look like a hidden ship, or tractor beam. Plot twist - Section 31 has been present all along.
Exactly. Plot twist - Section 31 really were there and tractored the technology for the Federation. The Federation uses it to become the Galactic Empire.
@Jessica The Azu I wish this mysterious blue beam had been utilised for the finale. So there was an actual conspiracy, Voyager defeats it and gets home.
@Jessica The Azu Agreed. I absolutely LOVED the Voyager series. I just wish the finale had made more sense and given us a high: 1. Chakotay and Janeway had to happen. All that build up and chemistry. 2. Replace the Seven and Chakotay scenes with Seven and Harry Kim. And hell, give him a promotion before he gets home. 3. Have the Doc help uncover the Voyager conspiracy that Seven picked up the threads of. Whether it is Section 31, or just a closed time loop involving the Borg. E.g. in the film First Contact, the Borg end up fulfilling the timeline by the Enterprise E helping humans achieve the first Warp flight. So have the Borg try to assimilate the second Caretaker, perhaps journey back to the first Array and steal the reactor using a modified cloaked Borg sphere. Have Voyager make the decision to go back to stop them getting their hands on that technology which could propel Borg ships to Earth. And then perhaps Voyager overcome them and get home. 4. As an alternative to (3), just have Voyager encounter the second Caretaker and get home. Or else, have Section 31 involved, Voyager defeat the conspiracy and get home. 5. In any scenario, show the Voyager crew land home, meet their families and show us 30 years later with everyone happy on Earth.
@Jessica The Azu Thanks, and glad you think so. I've heard that too. What I meant was Chakotay and Janeway AFTER they got back to Earth. So show us the "20 years later" and they are together now after their duties on Voyager. They definitely had chemistry which was really wonderful. I'm not advocating opening the episode with a relationship whilst still in the Delta Quadrant. Just to clarify. Haha great point. Yes, Lieutenant Kim and Seven of Nine for sure. I am not sure why that didn't happen. I thought they definitely had a rapport that needed a happy conclusion as well. Poor Harry. I think they definitely needed to show us the happy reunion with Earth at the end rather than abruptly end. I really loved Voyager and still rate it one of the best series (in general). I just don't know what happened for the final episode! I'd rather them have omitted that weird boxing episode and added on that 45 minutes to the finale to make it more whole and complete.
They also never explained just why a science vessel was carrying those non-standard tricobalt weapons. Yes, Seven's theories were loco, but it seems like there really were some unanswered mysteries lurking about.
The reason why Janeway allowed Kes to leave Voyager ,was bc Kes was a total bore and was absolutely dragging the ratings down. Sorry Seven, Kes HAD to go!!!!!!
Maybe it's best to forgive and not punish Seven for what after all was a medical problem or technological glitch but Seven is so full of herself and so judgmental it would have been nice if she could have at least apologized and shown a little contrition.
When I saw this episode at a very young age, it informed me nearly completely of how to avoid conspiracy theories (certain outrageous ones anyway). I still refer to every odd conspiracy theory a friend tells me as the "Voyager conspiracy" in my head when I hear it, and just nod along.
Listen to how they're talking by Seven's alcove, they weren't taking those theories seriously. They've been through too much to start doubting each other now
Yes, the books are canon and he and Seven don't stay "in love". He was the safe choice. They had zero chemistry and no build-up. Kate Mulgrew's real-life husband, who worked behind the scenes on the show, kept Janeway and Chakotay apart because he didn't want his wife being romantic with a man that handsome that she had that kind of chemistry with.
The books are part of Star Trek's expanded pay-per-view universe and need to get control of the franchise they are canons yes. They are not fafictions.
This was a wonderful episode and loved this scene. :) They are perfect for each other. And I loved it how Seven made both of them question each other’s motives on this episode, only come to find out, Seven goes coo-coo for Cocoa Puffs in this episode, trying to process too much information at once.
Warning plate is hot🤣
3:49 (With apologies to Winston Churchill) "If you were my First Officer, I'd put poison in your coffee!" "If you were my Captain, I'd drink it!"
nailed!
Janeway: "But we are explorers"
Chakotay: "Then how about we explore the bedroom"
Come on you all were thinking it, I just said it.
WHY DID THEY DO THIS TO US. ;____;
They were MADE for each other! It would've been the most perfect couple in the universe. ;___;
Oh yes. Did you know I threw something at the TV set when he and Seven got together? I was furious!!! Absolutely flabbergasted on that one!
Ikr. the 7 of 9 relationship came out of nowhere. Like wth?
Not sure if I'm wrong but i've read that this illogical relationship-thingy was quite illogical and unexpected for the actors as well...
Still, it hurts like hell thinking about how this ended. .__. J/C FOREVER
I could never imagine Chakotay and Janeway in a relationship. They're too good friends to me :D
IIRC, Kate Mulgrew laughingly said that her real-life husband worked on the show and didn't want her having romantic scenes with Chakotay. He thought that the actor was too handsome and was jealous of their chemistry.
"Let's keep almost phasering each other alone in the cargo bay out of our logs." 🤣🤣🤣
My head canon is still that once they got back to the Alpha Quadrant, Janeway's (admittedly necessary) rules on fraternizing were relaxed, while 7/Chakotay went nowhere. Then, there was ♥️♥️♥️♥️♥️!
"Half the crew on deck 5 getting pregnant" 0:18 - LOL! Life on a starship with no contact with anyone else must be like life in a really small town. Everyone knows everything about everyone else, and the rumors fly whether they're true or not :-D
@UCoF7RFc4JlP9Yu-D_9f_0Hg
Wish they did get together. Make great. Couple
Yes, this is one of Voyager's great episodes.
According to the novels, they wound up together after returning to the Alpha Quadrant.
They where together before the show ended
@@chubkuriboh i need to rewatch. I though he was in love with Seven.
@@jessicare5331 that was who I meant
@@jessicare5331 Only in the last episode, out of the blue. Bad writing.
@@aeroripper Robert Beltran wanted more out of his character because he felt Chakotay didn't have much of an arc, so they came up with him and Seven being a couple.
Well, as Captain, it's against Starfleet protocol for Janeway to become romantically involved with one of her subordinates. Still doesn't explain why they hooked Chakotay up with Seven with zero build-up.
Picard said in TNG that Starfleet doesn't have rules like that, outside of general conduct while on duty rules. He dated the astrometrics lady from his ship...and found he wasn't so great at separating professional and personal with her (but he mostly could with Beverly...because she was more his equal) - he didn't stop seeing her because of any rules though, just personal issues.
Chakotay is a different story though. One, he's not really Starfleet - he already defied Starfleet by being Maquis. Second, he *was* a captain...he's trying to get his crew home just as much as she's trying to get hers there - they just have to do so using her ship, since his went boom...and thereby under her rules. Starfleet protocol, the captain with the bigger/better ship is in charge. They are equals in that sense, just equals under her roof. And third, they're way out in the Delta quadrant for what started as a 70 year journey home. Even the Puritans at Starfleet wouldn't expect one if their captains to remain celibate for 70yrs 😏 They'd be all for her pairing up and creating a family as well...as Starfleet tends to foster traditional family values (if not traditional family appearances... compositions - your family is what you make it, whatever the sex/species/engineering).
Picard and Beverly were dating? I thought they were just friends because she was his best friend's wife.
The Seven/Chakotay thing happened because they had to justify the plot of the finale with Admiral Janeway going back to save Seven from dying and Chakotay never recovering from her death. For me, it was a travesty of storytelling lol
you didn't poison the coffee did you?
Not anymore than I usually do
Not every epic love story needs to be a romantic one.
Yeah, they're irreplaceable friends nothing more.
This is lesbian love !!!
And that's probably why Hollywood has a very broad definition of "love story."
But this one would have made sense. The organic direction of the story and character arcs themselves kept naturally inclining towards it, but it was Mulgrew who artificially stepped in to request derailing that plotline.
For the sake of the story, I'm sorry she did that. I'm a fan of platonic character love when it makes sense (I think it detracts from the depth of story when writers unnecessarily turn every love into romantic love), but there are still times when romantic love _is_ the realistic direction that makes sense for a pair of characters (and in this case, the beginning of that arc actually happened onscreen across many episodes, because that had originally been the plan) so when there's a sudden last minute flip to not uniting the characters, it feels... weird. And when the other characters the would-have-been couples end up with (e.g. in this case, Chakotay ending up with Seven), it just doesn't resonate, as it never had the same lead-up to make the relationship make sense.
Tendi and Rutherford's relationship over on Lower Decks in a nutshell. It's been pseudo-romantic without fully crossing the line for almost the entire show's run, so unless it's presented really casually, having them get a relationship upgrade in the upcoming fifth and final season would likely come off as insincere.
Love this episode. Thank you
Love these two :) Great episode. Thanks for sharing!!!
“Seven was malfunctioning, we didn’t have that excuse.” Give yourself some credit guys. You didn’t buy it at first, she presented a literal mountain of evidence.
The mountain was literal? I don't believe you. Hyperbole does not serve you well.
'Not any more than I usually do' that's the best line in whole episode if not the whole season maybe even the whole series 😂
youre an idiot.
Superb episode. I also thought the chemistry was clear. The conspiracy was also brilliant. Was there ever an explanation for what the zoomed in shot of the Caretaker station and that blue glow was? Plot twist - there was a conspiracy the whole time.
The computer confirmed the tractor beam was targeting the secondary reactor but could not determine a ship or if the energy was indeed a tractor beam>
Chakotay confirmed Tri-Cobalt devices aren't normally part of a Starships payload. The problem is if a cloaked ship pushed the reactor into rift made by the Tri-coblat devices then that ship would have been destroyed by the blast. None of this was ever explained....
It's likely there was no cloaked ship. I think Suspiria is the one that took the reactor. This could have been a failsafe incase the array was destroyed because of how valuable they were.
@@saquist Yes, good point. I just feel that honestly the source of the tractor beam would have been fabulous to have in the Voyager Finale. E.g. if during the plot of the very final episode, Voyager for instance goes back in time to prevent the Borg from acquiring the reactor in order to prevent the Borg from using it to reach Earth almost instantaneously. And that the source of the tractor beam is in fact Voyager itself (from the future) operating under some type of rudimentary cloak. The Voyager uses the reactor to get back home. The rift could be explained to be some type of Borg conduit (already in the finale in any case). Just an idea.
@@darkjediknight2923 that would have been a stroke of genius!
This whole episode could be chalked up to Seven and her bullshit.
There's a saying " Keep your friends close, your enemies closer". Captain Janeway is having dinner and being friendly with him to make sure she knows what he's up to. Being as he's Marquis; her original mission was to capture him and his associates, then bring them back for trial.
She's not going to fully trust any of them, however she's lost crew and needs replacements. She's not prepared to have them sit in the ship's brig for however long it takes to get home whilst her crew are busting their nuts to get the ship home.
They do end up together in the books.
which books?
In the books??
Chapter 21, pages 340-347 of Star Trek Voyager: Full Circle by Kirsten Beyer.
Apparently, the writers hooked up Chakotay and Seven because Robert Beltran (besides all his other problems with the show) couldn’t stand Jeri Ryan. The writers took the chance to kick him back one last time as the show wrapped.
That's just sick.
Yeah he said it himself, at the las Vegas con in 2015.I saw the video somewhere here on youtube. Such a stupid thing they did
Damn thats Fd up.
Their chemistry is off the charts
Hahaha Seven of Nine really did a good job at pulling the wool over their heads.
1:07 I actually HATED this scene. After this many years together, all their weekly dinners plus the in-between dinners, holodeck visits, away missions, etc, the idea that EITHER of them would suspect the other of doing something nefarious just because Seven spun some conspiracy theory made yell at my TV when this ep. was aired. I kept saying, "Go TALK to him/to her!!" Chakotay and Kathryn suddenly losing their trust in one another was lazy writing. It should not have taken an hour to get to Kathryn's conclusion that "We've been through too much to stop trusting each other."
I can believe that Chakotay would start questioning whether he could trust Janeway. He's been burned too many times. On his Maquis ship, he trusted Tuvok and Seska as much as the rest of his crew. Both were double agents, and he never even suspected them. So it's understandable that he would begin doubting his own ability to judge the character of the people he serves with. His gut tells him to trust Janeway, but his gut has let him down before.
As for Janeway, she trusts Chakotay, but she also trusts Seven. And Seven is normally as rational and logical as a Vulcan. Janeway was faced with an impossible choice. She handled it about as well as anyone could.
It's clear that Chakotay and Janeway don't want to stop trusting each other. But they can't dismiss Seven's evidence without a good reason. When they find one, it's obvious how relieved they both are.
Hilarious episode! Seven was making them paranoid!
"Now I'm not saying it was the Chodak, but...."
Must see for conspiracy theorist. Post factum: you can find compelling facts and circumstances to support whatever you have a proclivity to believe.
More please
like minds and all
Seven of Nine was probably correct. Janeway was working for section 31 all along. If the marquee and cardassian info from accepting chakotays crew into voyager didn't happen to corrupt the data she was going through she would have reached the conclusion Janeway was in on a plot involving her
Indeed. They never did fully explain just what that blue glow in the computer captured image of the Caretaker station exploding was. It did indeed look like a hidden ship, or tractor beam. Plot twist - Section 31 has been present all along.
Never did find out what was up with the Romulan tractor beam.
Exactly. Plot twist - Section 31 really were there and tractored the technology for the Federation. The Federation uses it to become the Galactic Empire.
@Jessica The Azu I wish this mysterious blue beam had been utilised for the finale. So there was an actual conspiracy, Voyager defeats it and gets home.
@Jessica The Azu Agreed. I absolutely LOVED the Voyager series. I just wish the finale had made more sense and given us a high:
1. Chakotay and Janeway had to happen. All that build up and chemistry.
2. Replace the Seven and Chakotay scenes with Seven and Harry Kim. And hell, give him a promotion before he gets home.
3. Have the Doc help uncover the Voyager conspiracy that Seven picked up the threads of. Whether it is Section 31, or just a closed time loop involving the Borg. E.g. in the film First Contact, the Borg end up fulfilling the timeline by the Enterprise E helping humans achieve the first Warp flight. So have the Borg try to assimilate the second Caretaker, perhaps journey back to the first Array and steal the reactor using a modified cloaked Borg sphere. Have Voyager make the decision to go back to stop them getting their hands on that technology which could propel Borg ships to Earth. And then perhaps Voyager overcome them and get home.
4. As an alternative to (3), just have Voyager encounter the second Caretaker and get home. Or else, have Section 31 involved, Voyager defeat the conspiracy and get home.
5. In any scenario, show the Voyager crew land home, meet their families and show us 30 years later with everyone happy on Earth.
@Jessica The Azu Thanks, and glad you think so. I've heard that too. What I meant was Chakotay and Janeway AFTER they got back to Earth. So show us the "20 years later" and they are together now after their duties on Voyager. They definitely had chemistry which was really wonderful. I'm not advocating opening the episode with a relationship whilst still in the Delta Quadrant. Just to clarify. Haha great point. Yes, Lieutenant Kim and Seven of Nine for sure. I am not sure why that didn't happen. I thought they definitely had a rapport that needed a happy conclusion as well. Poor Harry. I think they definitely needed to show us the happy reunion with Earth at the end rather than abruptly end. I really loved Voyager and still rate it one of the best series (in general). I just don't know what happened for the final episode! I'd rather them have omitted that weird boxing episode and added on that 45 minutes to the finale to make it more whole and complete.
They also never explained just why a science vessel was carrying those non-standard tricobalt weapons. Yes, Seven's theories were loco, but it seems like there really were some unanswered mysteries lurking about.
The reason why Janeway allowed Kes to leave Voyager ,was bc Kes was a total bore and was absolutely dragging the ratings down. Sorry Seven, Kes HAD to go!!!!!!
Episode 6x9
Nice.
Lovely!
Seven of Nine became Alex Jones for an episode.
1:36 well you should be careful, somebody might think you’re deleting a few files.
Maybe it's best to forgive and not punish Seven for what after all was a medical problem or technological glitch but Seven is so full of herself and so judgmental it would have been nice if she could have at least apologized and shown a little contrition.
For me Kathryn Janeway and Seven of Nine were the OTP...
When I saw this episode at a very young age, it informed me nearly completely of how to avoid conspiracy theories (certain outrageous ones anyway). I still refer to every odd conspiracy theory a friend tells me as the "Voyager conspiracy" in my head when I hear it, and just nod along.
Listen to how they're talking by Seven's alcove, they weren't taking those theories seriously. They've been through too much to start doubting each other now
the actress who played aneway did not want to kiss with chakotay
books are not canon, chakatoy is in love with seven, as shown by this series.
Yes, the books are canon and he and Seven don't stay "in love". He was the safe choice. They had zero chemistry and no build-up. Kate Mulgrew's real-life husband, who worked behind the scenes on the show, kept Janeway and Chakotay apart because he didn't want his wife being romantic with a man that handsome that she had that kind of chemistry with.
@@misspriss2482 books are still non canon. Book versions will never be "official" story telling.
The books are part of Star Trek's expanded pay-per-view universe and need to get control of the franchise they are canons yes. They are not fafictions.
@@renataemcristo books are non Canon.
Picard and Prodigy are canon, and Chakotay and Seven didn't last :p
This is a dumb episode. The premise was rubbish. Another threshold
Agreed. Janeway and Seven were a perfect couple.
They do end up together in the books.
The books mean nothing.
Which ones? Any that focus on them?
Feel like sharing titles? I haven’t found one that they end up together.
@@adventureswithkat3884 the ones by Kirsten Beyer. Start with Full Circle (but then make sure to read The eternal tide ;) )