Classified Hub Long Term Review & Issues
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
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Let's hope the simple reliability issues are fixed so I can continue to enjoy what mechanically is a great system.
Again, thanks to Veloforte, my favourite natural and delicious fuel supplier:
PeakT-20 is the code FOR 20%OFF @ tidd.ly/45uc9Db
All videos go on patreon.com/peaktorque first, along with exclusive blog posts, videos and articles. - Věda a technologie
3:25 One could say you'd reached ... peak torque.
This is the kind of testing us as consumers want to see and love your channel for it. Honest to the max. It seems an awesome concept, just needs refining
Yeah, forget the hub, we all want updates on your brake disc saga.
I'm new here, what on earth is going on with the rear disc?
@@jay_stne quite a while ago PT got pissed with Shimano Icetech overheating and warping with no adequate alternative and decided to create his own rotor.
@@jay_stne as above. I’ll do a video on them soon but they’re heavy, reliable, stiff and quiet.
@@PeakTorqueCan't wait. I hate my disc brakes. At least one of my bikes is always squealing, not breaking properly or having some other issue. I've had bikes working perfectly, then not ride them for two months and next thing you know the front/rear brake doesn't work. Please fix this shit.
@@PeakTorque
Looking forward to it! A disc brake rotor is not where one should be looking to save 50 grams if it comes at the cost of performance or reliability!
There is no way on gods green earth that you haven't watched Macgyver after that makeshift repair. Thanks for the vid.
Cool to see you test on rough roads. As an engineer, you know shock and vibe can bring out even the most non-intuitive failures.
Incredible. These guys have enough money to send sets of these all over the 'cycling media' for 'testing' but cant stick a button in uk 2nd class. Comedy gold.
Exactly. Got to be a shit head influencer or brand ambassador. Otherwise you’ve a problem. Get F’d
Glad to see you on gravel. I've been training and racing gravel for two seasons now and I have grown quite fond of it. No worries about traffic safety and the scenery is a nice change of pace.
Quite "Fondo" of it.....
@@diehardbikes I see what you did there 😊
nice work creating your own solution... max tire size and gear range, very handy setup
Interesting stuff PT 👍
Also love the Clemens Ruh soundtrack you use these videos too.
The Rotor Epic alu crank booties are actually 100% fit for the Aldhu. I can confirm since I had a spare Aldhu cranks and fitted it temporarily to a XC bike.
A very mechanical solution to an electrical problem :) Good work :)
I'm sure it is mentioned somewhere: you can integrated the shifting button into a Shimano di2 setup. Then you can shift normally with the Shimano front shifter. I have that setup and it works amazingly! Downside: only works with Shimano di2 setup and I prefer mechanical shifting. So the classified for me is only well suited for a Di2 setup. Then it works at it's best! I love the setup, and the look (especially) on a road bike is amazing! In addition it is so easy to change the gears just by changing the single front chainrings. Epic day in the mountains or fast group ride? Just change the front right! No adjustments needed! No front derailleur setup etc...
Is there any tutorial for this hack ?
Hey PT!
Electronics engineer here with a bit of experience in repairing consumer electronics. Most tactile buttons in this form factor use a circular domed membrane as an actuator between a ring and a center point terminal. The actuator is usually covered with a plastic button or a rubber cover for higher priced units.
Almost all the ones I have opened have the same problem: the domed membrane wears out over time. On rare occasions I have found foreign objects or oxide inside the switch, this is more common for cheaper buttons that are not sealed completely with rubber. As per the more expensive ones, the membrane usually dies before the rubber cover lets anything in from the outside. It would be interesting to see the stock switch disassembled. (at least for me)
Love ya ;)
That’s really good info! And probably the most likely cause.
You've invented the momentary switch!!!
0:55 so what might that disc rotor be? :)
Had one of these to play with at work. Also quickly found the button lacking in many regards - main thing not being part of SRAM/Shimano hoods. So expensive brute force hack was to take apart a SRAM AXS front derailluer (could be Shimano), jump off a GPIO that asserts when shifted (LED for example), buffer to a FET short to ground emulating the physical switch! Bingo, SRAM hoods switching Classified ;). Expensive hack but not beyond the realm of current bike market for a integrated solution.
Those brake disks look cool... 😎
Great video. Bodged switch looked good to me! Any noticeable difference in power loss through the hub?
Tested it in the last classified video i did. Barely any measurable difference, almost within the error of the experiment
7:30 Cool DIY contact
What video did he talk about brake howl and resonance. I saw the short, but can't find the original video where he measured the resonance.
Hahha the 3D print bodge my god Im loving it
Looking fierce US gravel pro with the hydration vest
Tactic there was to not eat faeces of livestock. No joke, can make you seriously ill. This route went through a lot of grazing land and there was sh1t everywhere and it easily gets in the bottle nozzles.
Good call in fairness. Made that mistake before. Handy wat to cut weight, but not a good long term solution
@@PeakTorquesome bottles come sold with shielded caps. Of all the gravel specific nonsense out there, that one actually makes sense.
So how do you charge the hub? Does it have a disposable battery or do you have to remove the thru axle and charge it? Also how long does the battery last and do you get any indication when the battery is low?
So far the whole system seems annoying compared to just having a wide 10-51 cassette or 2by.
Charge the thru axle
it's totally operator but I routinely run into cross chaining issues on my 2x gravel. 10-51 casette has too big jumps for optimal cadence so there's still a market for this for now, until maybe 1x14? ;)
I am riding this hub now for 7 months, and didn't need to recharge. If, however, you need to charge, you have to remove the thru axle in order to get to the USB connector. Pretty much like Shimano Di2 - not the most elegant system, but works. I would prefer standardized water-tight magnetic connectors like seen in the video on the Powermeter (have the same)...
@1:30, perhaps very premature to comment, but my being an electronic tech for over half a century, the button/battery interconnection as you state ("2.5mm") jack, what was known for decades as a "subminiature jack" (as opposed to the 1/4" 'miniature' jack) is highly problematic for audio situations, even more so for power ones. It works, perhaps quite adequately for consumer use, but no professional would use it for that purpose unless there were no alternatives....of which actually, there are many excellent ones. One of the ways to make the 'subminiature jack' more reliable, or less unreliable, is/was to gold plate the contact areas, but even there, you can gold plate a screwdriver, it won't necessarily engage any better.
@8:56...I cannot believe they weren't able to send you a replacement button, even if a temporary one until a 'production fix' one was ready.
The requirement is bog-simple technically, and absolute kudos to your hack. There are *many* industrial quality models even smaller than what you require available for parts wholesalers. Your requirement is well under an amp, (most likely a few milliamps) low voltage momentary contact normally open SPST push button switch. All they had to do is drop one in epoxy resin sitting in a body that presses into the end of your handlebars, or whatever attachment method they are using.
Dammit, a door bell button will do it, albeit the life-cycle expectations are the limit. For high quality/reliability, aeronautic grade ones would be fine.
I'm boggled by their ineptitude on this...
Hi there. A lot of PTT radios, even high end ones, still seem to use the 2.5mm stereo jack! In this case, the jack and connector is fine and is still in use, something in the button itself went awry. New one is here and working fine now. Hopefully a one off.
@@PeakTorque I can't remember if you stated "3.5mm" or "2.5" initially, in my lingo it's just "subminiature"...I'm old school. 2.5mm is used by some nowadays, it's the next 'standard' size down from 3.5, but rarely used. 3.5 is/was the standard, but being supplanted by USB in many cases now. USB, for all its irritations to someone like me, is a much tighter tolerance and quality control required to be sold under the standard "USB". There is no industry standard for phone jacks. Even the 3.5mm is almost 75 years old, and the 1/4" well over a hundred, being an 'improvement' over 'phone jacks' used for telephone exchanges.
Whatever, even though your problem in this case was the switch, I can see further agro lurking in the wings with connections and components they're using. A high quality 'pressure sensitive' sealed assembly with no connections is indicated.
In deference to them, however, their shortcoming is no worse than I see with a lot of 'bike electrics'. I find it ironic that in today's 'digital world' the basic electric components are so archaic in many cases.
How 'passive' and totally sealed could that button and harness be? The lead seems to be set by the rechargeable lights one attaches to handlebars. And as torn as I am on stating this, they're all board mounted, not discrete components.
Edit to Add:
[ A high quality 'pressure sensitive' sealed assembly with no connections is indicated.]
This might not even require a discrete button at all, but be a 'press strip' that could be aligned along one or both sides of the handlebars. And not being an actual metal on metal contact, but a dielectric one that changes the impedance enough to 'toggle' an input gate in the electronics in the hub. This is often done with 'FET's' and insertion power loss is infinitesimal by doing so.
Google: "Tapeswitch"
Google: "Tapeswitch" and/or "Sealed Touch Pad Switches"
Nylon washer or spring washer on the rear axle to stop creaking?
Alex, what are your thoughts on the importance of Classified's tech getting groupset integration in terms of not just having it operable by the lever normally used for a front mech shifter, but also for sequential shifting?
this would be great - I still hope Shimano will buy Classified, because it makes perfect sense to integrate this. One Up and down lever to operate the full system. As of now, you can't even see on a Garmin in which gear the hub is (well, you can, but then you have to drop the Di2 connection)...
@@Robeuten History paints a certain picture. Shimano develops in-house, pretty much exclusively. SRAM has bought Sachs, Avid, RockShox, Truvativ, Quarq, Zipp, etc...
was wondering if the new 'bonus' buttons on sram red could control the classified hub....surely some wider integration is coming
Have you fixed the creak or just living with it? Was considering buying one but I hate creaks
If he doesn't need to shift the hub, he's using a standard thru-axles instead, that appears to be his current solution.
@@imrevadasz1086but then 5 months went by in the video so wondered if there was an update
Curious as to what's going on with the rear brake rotor, is that some kind of goop filling in the gaps for better aero performance perhaps?
Heard INEOS used it in the first iTT on this Giro d'Italia, for sure your testing was harsher
I heard same !!!!!
While three of their riders were in the top-ten they all got beat by a guy without this techno miracle. Legs/lungs win races, tech just fills company bank accounts!
If I hear Peak Torque say “y’all” one more time, I’m going to register him for next year’s Sea Otter Classic so he can hear our accent in situ. 😅
Yall be ready for that hot damn
@@PeakTorque “All y’all” is the plural, at least in the American Southeast. Hehe.
@@ericpmoss get you some of that
Silly question ! But can you use one of the the DI2 buttons on the hoods (if you are using DI2) ?
Not officially but it could be hacked
Given all the things they have that they can do ! Why would you not offer it as an option ?
@@colingregory7464because that would require licensing from Shimano, which Shimano may not be too keen to agree on with a competitor to their front derailleur.
So things like the Dropper Posts or Heed Unit controls are licensed ?
Rothmans ey, nice.
have a version integreated within GRX (with 815 Di2), not the aftermarket button. No issues so far. Also no issues with creaking - but, yes, I always feel bad when tightening the axle at the rear wheel. This one needs to be fixed by Classified (longer lever, reinforced materials, and better sealing). Headphone-like jack is bullshit; there are so many well-developed sealing connectors standards e.g. from car industry...
BTW: Asked for one additional screw to secure the hub in a second set of wheels; they sent me 3 for free within a week.
A magnet and a reed switch is pretty close to the ultimate for reliability for switches if it's low current signalling. Most speedos on bikes use them pretty much for that reason.
I'd be VERY interested if it could be incorporated into the shifter itself.
this is what you get when you don't use the aftermarket solution, but buy it with a bike. I have a Gravel bike with two GRX shifters/break levers - right for GRX815, left for Classifed.
When machine engineer does electronics! :D
Why not go for an off-the-shelf button? There has to be one that would suit your needs.
2:24 What kind of rotor is this?
You can just get any cheap button from any hobby electronics store that will short the two wires, it ain't hard. And I'm sure you know that, too.
With Di2 GRX lever integration, it is awesome. Without is OK, but not awesome...
Why can't they make the momentary switch electronically (replaces or communicates with the switch in left shifter paddles) or physically (switch is pressed when you physically actuate the levers to shift) integrate with the drop bar levers?
You get this when you buy a bike with Classified hub pre-installed. For the aftermarket solution, you either have to live with the crappy button (not for me!), or fiddel it out yourself - but seems not to be too hard. There must be, though, different logics in place; I have it integrated into the left GRX brake lever/shifter, and with two switches, "big chain ring" is always big, and vice versa. Which I prefer, because Garmin is not capable of handling two gear systems connected and displayed, so you have to know which (virtual) chain ring you are into when using the single button.
i want to know more about that solid disk at rear.....
THATS WHAT SHE SAID
If the switch is powered from just the coin cell with no conversion, it'll be 1.5 or 3v. For anything below 3v gold contacts are usually recommended. S
Would you accept a pinion gearbox bike build challenge? Belt drive and all?
Brilliant......
Isn't standard throughaxle torque like 10nM?
I normally do mine to 12Nm. So yeh, difficult to achieve here.
what's that rear brake rotor?
how do you survive with asymmetrical bar tape?
I think that the system should be compatible with SRAM BLIPS, those buttons are well tested and cheap …it would make the system easier to use without any piece of cable and handlebars plug. I remembered to see a bike with classified and the only thing I disliked was the button.
What a surprise: electronics fail outdoors. Wow. That was unexpected!
Thanks for the update, really appreciate it! But I'm not really an electronics guy but couldn't you just have bought a button, maybe even a waterproof one? I mean your own button is cool and all no offense but seems a bit unnecessary no? 🙂
Yes i could have however i had 2 days before the race to sort it because i was told it had been shipped and would receive it that week. So it left me very little time. A new button would have required soldering onto the original jack, which being away from my workshop i also didnt have a soldering iron!
The joke used-to-be: "Give an Englishman a piece of metal and he'll do something funny with it every time." Update might be: "Give an Aussie a 3D printer....."?
@@larryt.atcycleitalia5786 update: I AM NOT AUSTRALIAN! :)
Seems like you could use a wired sram blip or a di2 sprint shifter.
Different connector.
Push contact switches are not ideal where contamination is probable and currents are low. It needs to be sliding/wiping contact style momentary switch
Why do people try so hard to avoid front derailleurs? They work great and are the best option IME.
why can't they use the shifter instead of a button?
If that's just a button issue i'm sure that can get sorted
Yeah I get the annoyance about Classified not sending a new button but come on, simple waterproof buttons aren't so rare that one needs to build that 3d printed contraption.
1:21 “headphone-like jack”
This causes unintentional gear shift during gravel ride I suppose.
99.8% efficiency is Zero efficiency when it doesn't shift. have you tried rapid or rs for your switch?
99.8%? You claimed over a year ago that their efficiency is 96% and you also said some people you tryst claimed 90-92%
@@channul4887You shouldn’t listen to a 5 year old
@@channul4887 seems Hambini is joking about his own theoretical assumptions (which, if true, would really be bad), the claims by Classified ("less than 1%"), and the reality check by our host which is pretty close to Classified claims, and far away from Hambini. Which is good - because I have one...
@@vozzen he should be six or seven by now
Having a button fail... the simplest, cheapest, most commoditized part... is an embarrassing oversight. The button market is actually quite competitive... lots of makers, options, choices... tempting less experienced engineers into buying something cheap. The "expensive" buttons cost more because they don't fail so easily.
And the expensive options are still dirt cheap in the scheme of things for the rest of the system.
Your button fix was impressive, but arent basic soldering irons like, $10?
Had 2 days to get it working in the end as i thought the replacement was on the way
My soldering skills (old school, 'point-to-point') are excellent, but that matters little if there's something else in the circuit breaking continuity, or even more aggravating, intermittently breaking it. One considers themselves lucky by fixing such issues with just a solder job. Even the process of handling a part and associated wiring and/or connections can often dissipate another break elsewhere. Best practice is to replace the entire item and associated wiring where possible.
To put the conundrum of 'soldering or not' above into a much easier to understand context:
'Inner tube, flat tire. Patch or replace if you have a spare'? Replace every time, as many of us over the decades have learned. If you're stuck, then patching it is....ggrrrrrr. And on that point, since I raised it, I swear the glue or the patch and/or tube formulation has changed over the years. Spare tube, never leave home without one.
@@stephensaines7100 and the problem with a stiff soldered joint is that itll break again just further along where there is no strain relief!
@@PeakTorque Indeed, and it's not just the solder itself that renders adjacent metal brittle, it's the heat required to do the soldering in the first place.
I think it would be interesting to try the hub in a 2X set up????? Does anyone remember triples???
I have a video on that. 44 speed.
@@PeakTorque I was already a fan (one engineer to another). Your personal reply is impressive, WOW! How cool is that? I'll seek out your 44 speed video. Tailwinds to ya.
@@PeakTorque Dear Alex, Please let me impose again. More specifically....I was wondering if the Classified cassette shifted well with a 2X setup?? Classified specifies only 1X application. How does the rear cassette shift in 2X???? Side note: I've tried Sram cassettes on shimano drivetrains with marginal success> yes the shift, but like shit compared to a shimano cassette. Sooooo: Does classified cassette shift like a shimano should??
@@carlcole9026 if shifts absolutely fine. The Classified hub doesnt know what you are running up front!
It's endlessly amazing to me how companies that make retail outdoors stuff can 1. Bodge something as fundamental as THE button and 2. Take forever to send a replacement or a fix to a key CZcamsr.
Now they just look like donkeys to me.
don't see bang for buck for the amateur racer. How many successful gravel races have been won without one?
Gear inches is a formula. Short enough gear spacing to get up the steep stuff and stay relevant on the way down with pedal power and not spin out and of course spacing in between to find goldilocks in your favorite gear combos. If you don't have the strength, can even do a triple in front to tap all the bases for a fraction of the price of a Classified hub.
so.... 48 speed bike? Now you can run a 12 speed corn cob with a FD and the classified hub.... for science of course.
The overlap would be incredible.
When i first got the gravel bike built up i was running 44 speed with 2x with Classified. Theres a video on that.
You know you can get a basic switch like that anywhere right? A lot better weather and wear proof then your version.
In two days notice, with no access to a soldering iron? Dont think so
@@PeakTorque I might have missed that part, sorry for that
Sounds like a real pain.
5 months for a button? Has to be some kind of record
it is apparent that they changed the design - so, most likely, no "old" ones in stock, and the new ones not ready.
I'd ask them to send 2 buttons.
So you couldn't find a simple normally-open (off-on) momentary switch in the whole of UK? What?!
Not with this connector, no soldering iron, and 2 days to fix it, no. It was supposed to be on its way
If it said Shimano this would get a different review. Cannot shift for months because you cannot get a button? Bike creeks… hub is a great idea but this is beta testing.
It's not cheap either....
Bottom bracket gearboxes is the future of cycling. Dancing around derailleurs just prolongs the suffering.
I don't think so, because it means you have to transfer much larger forces through the chain. So you'd get faster chain, chainring and rear cog wear and higher friction losses in the chain. Also the gear switching mechanism has far more space and is easier to replace at the rear wheel.
Also Bottom Bracket gearboxes don't work with the existing bottom-bracket standards, and it seems much harder to build the necessary mounting in bicycle frames made from pre-fabricated tubing.
@@imrevadasz1086 Nah, pinion gearboxes work perfectly fine. We just need another iteration to move from those expensive proprietary gearboxes and mounts.
@@imrevadasz1086 chains are designed and built for force, not speed. Abandoning puny multispeed chain and multicog cassette negates wear and efficiency issues. Besides, nothing forbids you from having a huge cog in the rear and adjust gearbox ratios accordingly.
As per BB, you haven't seen middrive ebikes, have you? Plenty of options, couple of quite standartized. For retrofitting BSA looks fine: space currently occupied by external cups and chainrings suffice for a coupler towards a gearbox hanging underneath downtube. Again, like some existing ebike solutions.
@@Dustmadeout The Pinion gearbox is at least 10 times as expensive as the equivalent derailleur gearing. So even with more competition it's unlikely to be anywhere close to competitive on price.
@@imrevadasz1086 It is expensive because it's over engineered and kept proprietary. You seem to not understand the concept of further developing and standardization, as well as issues with forces in chains which was never a problem. Might as well ride a horse instead of those pesky steel pedal machines.
9:00 my culture is not a costume :'(
Thanks - so I shall wait some more until that product is really ready ...
Plastic lever on a rear hub?? Would like to see your smile when you have a crash and snap the plastic lever... Removing the rear wheel will be a breeze... Trust me.. Rgr
Early adopter problems
This HUB is esentially an electric SRAM 2 Speed hub. Nothing new or special just adapted for bike with rear derailers.
it is essentially NOT! The SRAM 2 speed hub cannot handle that much power, doesn't shift under load within 150ms (although it makes some noise - I prefer to not shift under load, but if you have to do it, you can do it), and has much lower efficacy.
A Ferrari is essentially a Mini, as both have an engine, and four wheels...
BTW: At a point in time all knowledge which is now with SRAM was under Fichtel & Sachs, they combined a 3 speed hub with 6 or 7 speed derailers - so what? Terrible efficacy, terrible weight.
Nah, it's an electronic Sturmey-Archer 3 speed...minus 1 speed.
This looks a right faff and pretty janky for something that is the better part of 2 grand.
Looks like you’ve been a beta tester
hack or bodge? vote in the comments
It's hard to trust a guy with a rear rotor like i see in this video. 😄
Please elaborate?
As song as it doesn't work with standard cassettes and Di2 levers I pass.
it works with Di2 levers, when you buy it pre-installed from the factory (I have it within a Shimano GRX environment, totally smooth.
It will never work with standard cassettes, because it needs the space for the gear box. Not an issue; been mine riding for 7 months in the mud, with absolutely no signs of wear. Yes, it's costly, but if you have to look for every penny, certainly, there are better solutions...
too many moving parts bro
Had been consuderjng a Classified system. OK. So after watching thus I see zero reason for anybody to buy and install a Classified hub at this stage. If they can't solve your problems quickly and effectively, the rest of us have no hope - so why would anybody buy Classified.
If what i hear is true, you could have extremes within this hub you couldn't get with double chainrings 56/32 (for example)
No. Its still a 0.7 drop ratio. So same as 50/34, 52/36 etc. however i have run it with 2x for 44 gears an a ridiculously low set of gears
English accent, but that doesn't look like England?
It is, of course!
So the hub is crap I guess.
Howd you come to that assumption? The hub is the good bit.
what a waste of money and time all this specialty nonsense is
Send fix to GCN hack / bodge.
what is that disc brake rotor :D