Dent repair practice, feat. a crushed trumpet bell...
Vložit
- čas přidán 10. 09. 2024
- I've got a lot of long-form repair content that I'm still sitting on and waiting to finish editing and upload, so in the meantime, enjoy this shorter repair video! This was a tricky job and looking back I'd have done a few things differently if I could do it again today, almost a year later, but enjoy!
~SOCIALS~
Sheet Music Store: samuelplaysbra...
Website: sammorozov.wix...
Instagram: @samuelplaysbrass ( / samuelplaysbrass )
Facebook: Samuel Plays Brass ( / samuelplaysbrass )
~ABOUT SAMUEL PLAYS BRASS~
Do you enjoy content relating to all things music and brass instruments? Sam has got you covered! On this channel we have been devoted to bringing you brass covers, play-alongs, multitracks, gear reviews and discussions, tips and tricks, collaborations, and even vlogs about the music world since 2016! Sam is a hobbyist brass multi-instrumentalist majoring in mechanical engineering. He is an active local performer and has played countless personal arrangements and compositions in small ensemble settings. If you like to nerd out over brass instruments, mouthpieces, music theory, and more, then make sure to subscribe and stay tuned! Thanks for watching.
#repair #restoration #trumpet
Hey everyone. I’ve made the decision that I am no longer answering any comments on this video. I am consistently receiving the same two comments on repeat and cannot keep giving the same answers. If you are still looking for answers, please read this comment. I’d rather it be this than me disabling comments entirely.
a) Why didn’t you heat up or anneal the bell before working on it?
This was a scrap horn with (literally) zero value that I decided to turn into an educational experience and to see how far I could get with only mallets and rollers. Yes, annealing would most likely have reduced cracking. However, some things are hardly even worth repairing, like this battered student trumpet that a band director did not want to have to put any more money into, and so they make for good practice instead. This was an intentionally difficult task that I gave myself to better understanding the processes of brass forming without the assistance of added heat.
b) Any variation of “I could do that at home” or “what do you mean I don’t have the tools?”
First of all, most of my Shorts viewers are young children. I don’t want to be liable for them messing up their first Instrument. I can’t prevent everything, but at the very least, things are safer having made that statement.
Second, brass repair is extremely tool-dependent. The quality of the tools you use correlates directly with the quality of your repair. Hammers are not a substitute for mallets. The wrong tool makes the job twice as hard.
I STRONGLY suggest that anybody who is at all interested find an apprenticeship or job in band repair. It is extremely fulfilling. I do NOT suggest, however, that anybody attempt this without prior training. My video or your intuition do not count as satisfactory training. I’ve messed things up as a repair tech before. It’s a learning process.
Okay, hear me out. Say I have the right tools 😂😂
honestly if you changed your tone in the video you wouldn't get as many comments like that...
@@k1zer100Seriously. "Before we get started I do want to note that this is a scrap horn that I saved from the trash, and I'm kind of experimenting with my technique. I strongly advise that you do not try this on a horn that you care about, or that doesn't belong to you. Good brass repair requires a lot of practice and some specialized tools without which you are all but guaranteed to ruin your instrument rather than repair it. If you really want to try it, I'd advise asking around to schools or repair shops to see if they have any that they deem beyond repair which you can practice on." Is a lot better than "Don't try this at home, you don't have the tools or the technique to do what I'm about to do, apparently at home." lol
Ya you sound like you have some sort of attitude
@@joecrisp9060and that's how you end up with "part 2 in the comments"
Honestly at that point if it was a nice horn or a valuable horn I think I'd entertain putting a new bell on.
That’s definitely true, but when the horn is one bad fall away from being declared scrap, it makes for a fun project just to see how close you can get it to looking like it did prior to the trauma.
Youd have to replace from a bit back
SOME SOLDER PLEASE!!!! Can’t believe no one has said this. I know it’s not an air tight part of the instrument but whoever’s horn it is would appreciate 10 more minutes in solder and buffing, and if it’s for sale, we’ll I wouldn’t buy a horn with holes in it.
Nobody is trying to sell you a holy trumpet. Take your holey socks and kick rocks ya bum
@@SamuelPlaysBrasssaw a lot worse from falls in DCI rehearsals. I was SHOCKED how beat up a Contra could get and still play correctly haha
Most normal, well cared for trumpet in band class.
Fr. Back when I was in HS band, a sophomore left their trumpet in the middle of the parking lot. The bell ended up getting folded in half like a taco
There was a story going around in my school about a trumpet that got left in the parking lot too! But this trumpet was said to have been flattened completely like a pancake, and apparently it’s still in the band director’s office to this day
As one of my old buddies would've said, "that's a crumpet" 😄
Right before a concert, 10 minutes before we started, one of the trumpets literally exploded, the band director tried to stall as long as possible to save the situation.
I’m a tuba player and I’m only in 7th grade, but this is exactly what I want to do when I grow up, fixing brass instruments. This is very interesting to me!
That’s so cool that you’re already taking an interest in this sort of thing at such a young age! Keep at it and get yourself a job at a music repair shop as soon as possible!!
Metal working is a very valuable skill, best of luck to you.
Man if I had your gumption when I was 20 years younger I'd be a 14 yr old with a job. Now a days I dabble in a bit of none of the above.
If you catch my drift
Do it! That’s so cool that’s your interest at a young age. Seriously don’t lose that interest and passion.
Welcome to the TUBA TRIBE!!
How dare you assume I don’t have the proper equipment or technique(I have no clue what’s going on)
Same😂
Literally was gonna say how dare he tell us, good citizens of CZcams, we can’t do something…
Same
Best way to practice something like this is on one that is already ruined. Awesome job
I’m not surprised he was able to restore it
I’m surprised someone was able to damage it to be like that
It's honestly easier than you'd imagine. I played French horn in high school and one practice I dropped the horn. It landed with the bell flat on the tile floor and it crumpled all the way around similar to the trumpet in this video.
@@StognaBalognamy poor baritone when we were practicing flips 😂
As others say, it's easier than you imagine. Held it by the mouth piece without thinking and it fell 3 inches. Bell was crumpled just like this.
@@StognaBalognaoh god that’s horrible. Horns are very much not cheap
@@epicthysaw horns getting beat to crap in drum corps rehearsal. Had my Tuba take bass drums, color guard rifles, dropped in, tripped and fell on to it..... you'd be shocked the condition a horn can play in.
I’ll attempt whatever I wanna attempt Mr. Samuel
"You don't have the right techniques"
Sobs in brass and woodwind repair person
Aw okay, you can ignore that comment ;)
“Do not attempt” gonna go blow myself up with a trumpet, brb.
Had a horn that looked exactly like this after a straight drop on the bell, cracked at the point of impact. Repaired it in me dad's garage with some tools and welded the crack, and we ended up making a lamp out of it later.
Sometimes being made into a lamp is the best fate a horn can wish for!
How could you dare drop a beautiful instrument such as that. My muscles physically jerked in my bed rn from reading that 😂. Genuinely, even on accident, thats enough to make me cry.
@@eniigma2943 It was a cheap student horn, so it wasn't too much of a loss. Not like I dropped a Stradivarius lol
Welded or brazed?
Someone in my old band class sat on their flute and then bent it...
Now our band teacher told us to always say this when we stand without our instrument:
"My instrument is IN MY CHAIR"
I sat on my flute once, it was fine but man that was a good lesson to check my chair before sitting down during practice
I tell students not to leave their instruments on their chairs....
If you sit on your instrument, your chair will be removed for the entire year , and you will stand.
@@grantkoeller8911 NOOOOOO
@@tungsten8290it’s a good habit to form for your students. Full on prevention is better then precaution!
Dang and u got some good trumpet chops too. Trumpet to trumpet, hitting every partial like that sluring up and down is pretty impressive.
Thanks Weston! Flexibility is something I’ve worked on a lot for years and it definitely took a long time to get to the point where I could slur cleanly between each partial.
Bold of you to assume I don't have all the equipment to restore trumpets, you're right tho I do not
If you didn't say it, I was... haha
Ahhhhhh I thought I was original
I doubt i could repair a trumpet but i for sure have the tools and know how to beat dents outs.
Not saying this from a place of ignorance but as some one who has made multiple trumpets for ceremonial use. Some heat would help that process significantly. Not too much because brass has a low melting point but it helps. Remember brass also becomes brittle by working it cold, hence the cracks
I can envision the clamping tool where you could heat-press it back flat but I literally know nothing. Sounded great and it looks cool.
Watch out folks, we’ve got a badass horn repair specialist on our hands.
Don't be a snowflake
Gives it character, now it's got a backstory 👍
That glisondo at the end was amazing
Do!!! "Try this at home"! That's the only way to truly understand and master what you are doing. 😊
The first one is suuuuper accurate. When my dad died, his one eyes wasn't closed properly and I had to warm up the veins in his eyelids to get his eye to close properly. So I had to use my hand's heat and rub the eyelid until the tissue softened up so I could hold the eyelid closed until it cooled down again and cooled shut.
bro what does this have to do with a trumpet?
@@Overgis4058 oh damn bro, absolutely NOTHING. It looks like either my phone or CZcams or my dumb ass mixed up the video I was supposed to be commenting on. Thanks for calling it out bro, can't be looking like a dumbass for more than 9 days in a row😂😂
That was crazy. I cant believe people are capable of such amazing things. I dream someday with enough training i could perform a task this bold
Im definitely going to try that at home now, using a led pipe, a claw hanmer, and rage.
I’m definitely gonna try this at home
Does using heat reduce the likelihood of holes? I was under the impression that heat should be used for reshaping
That process, called annealing, can definitely be helpful, but it’s usually not worth doing on student horns, especially because while it reduces cracks, it makes the metal softer to the point that you have to be MUCH gentler with the dent tools.
Thank you @@SamuelPlaysBrass for the answer.
@@SamuelPlaysBrassnot worth it? If I want to get my horn repaired I’m not going to give it to a wackjob that gives it to me back with holes in it lol
@@randomclipsofmedoinrandomd4253 Depends on the value of the horn. It was already just a Bach TR300 with a whole lot of miles on it before its bell got smashed in. I should have clarified, but I don't mean 'worth it' in the sense of giving someone back an instrument with holes (although if you watched the video you'll see a different fix for those), I mean the cost of the repairs and the potentially compromised sound quality might honestly mean it's more feasible to go find an Olds Ambassador or Conn Director for $100 on eBay to replace it, if it's a young kid we're talking about.
@@randomclipsofmedoinrandomd4253we're talking about an alloy that's typically 0.020" thick to 0.010" at the flair, once things get dropped or age/poor quality metal come into play cracks are inevitable. It's either something you patch as a bandaid or if it's viable you can silver solder the cracks shut otherwise it's time to replace parts. Nobody could've taken out those dents without the metal tearing and that's just how it is🤷
Definitely trying this at home.
My grandfather was a blacksmith. He repaired a ufonium that was damaged like your trumpet using a piece of broomstick.
Too late, I tried it at home. Now I have a perfecf trumpet from a dumpster! Plays perfectly.
Love watching repairs. How would someone fix the holes? Solder on a plate of metal? Would that even make a noticeable sound difference?
Yes, that’s called patching. It’s tricky to do and can subtly change the response of the instrument, but probably not the tone in any measurable way.
Or you can just fill it in with silver solder without any patches if the holes are small enough.
Brass is a wonderful material to work with
When I used to reload cartridges the method of softening the brass was to mostly fill each brass casing with water and use a torch to heat the brass til the water boiled, then dump the water and re-size thr case. May prevent the cracks.
What’s the most damage you’ve seen done to a musical instrument? Let me know ⬇️
The Chicago C from the original set that was run-over by a car (bell flat), displayed and further mutilated as a decoration, and then completely restored. Roy Hempley wrote about it. (annealing is key)
@@ronberndt8471 sounds horrible, but pretty incredible!
one time at honor band rehearsal, someone dropped their trombone and it snapped
I saw someone drop a school French horn and the entire bell crumpled and umweh it came back from the shop there was a sign that just said “beyond repair” and it actually is kind of good to play on besides the dent where the right hand goes
We have a cymbal on display on the "trash trophy" that's cracked in multiple places and bent and folded and creased so much it looks like a very wrinkly square.
You could try annealing the brass to prevent cracking. Brass can be work hardened but annealing can soften and reduce stress in the brass.
Hahahaha. "Please remember not to try any of this at home". That was pretty funny.
I don't claim to know anything about instruments especially brass wind instruments but As a amateur car body worker that plays with a lot of brass era car stuff (turn of the last century cars) generally speaking you would apply heat to help prevent the cracking and tearing of the metal, what is causing the cracks is because it is getting metal fatigued and work hardened from being pounded on copper, bronze and brass get work hardened very easily what other metals can also get work hardened although generally they take a lot more to get to that breaking point. I would guess that is what's causing your holes cracks and tears in the brass you can alleviate this almost completely by applying a moderate amount of heat as it relaxes the molecules in the metal so you are relieving the stress of the metal it's kind of an art form to get it right without overheating it and causing more damage but once you learn the skill it'll help you restore damaged brass.
Edit for the record I don't know if you are a professional instrument restorer or not obviously in a one minute video it's pretty hard to convey exactly how to fix an instrument something tells me by the tools you have you probably know what you were doing and already know about the annealing process but in case I wm wrong now you know lol
Yeah if I had the chance I would try this at home
This video is like a brass makers 5minute craft.
Bends are fine to repair on your own depending on severity and location. Any crumpling or hinging and you’d better send it in.
You did a great job man.
I set myself a rule that I wouldn’t answer any more comments on this video, but I’ll make an exception here. I really appreciate that, Keven. It’s refreshing to see someone watch this video and not bug me about why I didn’t anneal or braze it when this was just meant as a practice run on the dent roller with a scrapped horn. Thank you.
I’m probably gonna try this even though I don’t have the equipment or technique.
When shaping copper they heat it really hot and shape it to keep it from cracking and make it easier to shape maybe it will help with brass.
100% trying this at home... I just need to find a broken trumpet now
Because of that I'm buying one from the used store and fixing it 😂😂😂 It's a hammer and brute force bro 😂
I am gonna try this at home
I have a Bach Trombone with a kink just below the tuning tube. I often think I could work it out with some heat and a pipe down the bell shaft
My school had a trumpet just like that and you could move the bell forward and back. Had to use it for a performance once😅
“You do not have the proper equipment or technique”
Continues to just beat it with a mallet
You don't know what I have! But you're correct I don't have those tools at home.
Sounds like a winner to me😂
Reminds me of my brass days from high school
I imagine you saw a trumpet or two that got slammed on the floor?
@@SamuelPlaysBrass worse, tubas and baritones
Oh shit you found my trumpet from middle school!!😂😂 I dropped it one time and the bell crumpled just like that
My mom played French horn in high school she dropped her French horn 3 months after she got it my grandfather spent three weeks in his garage with a wooden spoon and a rubber mallet smoothing out the dent and it looks almost brand new now
He told all of us “you’re not that guy pal” 😂
It's brass. If you heat it red hot and then quench in water you anneal and soften it. Then you won't get cracks in the metal. I have not only the proper equipment and technique, but I also have the knowledge and experience.
I will try whatever I want, thank you
Funny. Im in school for fixing instruments and i just learned this this morning😞
Brass is work hardened, you could avoid some of the cracks by heat annealing before starting, and between steps.
Just for giggles I'd love to start seeing you play them before you repair.
Had this happen to mine as a child of the 80s. It was those stupid metal chairs in band class and me putting the horn on my lap by my knees that bent it.
You took that trumpet to pound town. 🎺 🔨
💀
I think I’ll try this at home
Wow such a cool video. I play trumpet and always wanted to see the repairs. Cool stuff dude
There were these trumpets at my school that were in very rough shape and I fixed them to what I could but I couldn’t completely restore them and now I know where I need to go
Apparently he is the only man alive that is able to half ass fix a bell. I am however going to take his advice and not attempt that myself I will stick to doing it right
Fr this shit makes zero sense “don’t try this at home I have proper techniques” bro literally just hammered metal and put holes into a trumpet acting like the average 6 year old couldn’t do that 😂😂😂
Would be perfect as a trumpet to give to a school to hand out for band class.
I thought I was going to be mad because it was nice instrument but you did
a great job
Thank you! Luckily this was just a student model destined for scrap.
“Trained repair techs only” bro Im pretty sure i couldn’t make it any worse
I just don’t want the kids in my audience screwing up their instruments.
Typical gatekeeping response. “I’m so smart and you just aren’t so don’t try this”
gatekeeping what? fixing a trumpet without proper training?@@CasperInkyMagoo
Thar was the most polite way to say you are not as good as me so don't do this. Sorry all you metal workers. All those years of metal working don't add up to this man's skill.
Don't try this at home?
*Tries to repair at home and films it; all with success*
If you do, let me know. I like watching repair content (better repairs than mine, LOL) on here.
He sounds like a snarky douchebag.
Our trumpet section in high school had a trumpet like this, we called it “soda can”
middle school me swung my trumpet (given to me by my grandma used by my aunt when she was my age when they rent-to-owned it) by the tube the mouthpiece went into and it detached and half of it went flying across the concrete of the yard
humility, safety and one hard lesson was learned that day
ill always be indebted to my grandma covering the repair costs of a stupid kids careless mistake
We’ve all got a story like that!
@@SamuelPlaysBrass living and learning
Why would you not anneal the horn with a torch at the end? It would soften the brass and make it easier to work with and then just polish it right? Or is there something I'm missing?
If I practice at home my technique will improve surely
Honest question, why not anneal the brass before touching it with a hammer? My first thought was a propane torch and low red heat to soften the metal, therefore no cracks from work hardening
Would the annealing process help with something that bad. As metal gets worked it gets hard and brittle. The right amount of heat will soften the metal and make it workable again.
Could you cut off and braze on a new horn or will the difference in metal hardness ruin the sound
I know this trumpet is scrap but I just am curious if brazing is a technique used in brass instrument repair
It has a bright career as a Christmas decoration in its future!
Dang that’s pretty awesome.. (has no idea what just happened)
So arrogant when people say "dont do such and such bc you arent skilled like me"
From what I understand from metalworking (hobby blacksmith) you can avoid the cracking and pinholes in the metal by annealing it while working & forming, or in this case reforming haha. To do this with brass, you would have to heat and then quench it if I remember correctly.
Don't how practical this would be on an instrument though...
I appreciate the info, but please read the pinned comment. I’ve had at least twenty people suggest annealing and I’m well aware.
@@SamuelPlaysBrass ah, my apologies.
My understanding is that holes in the bell are irreparable and will always inhibit projection and resonance. At that point I’d just solder it off at the tail and put on a new one
Ferree dent machine and trumpet mandrel mounted sideways in a vice would help a lot too. lol
Could you anneal the brass before, and during, the work so it doesn't crack? Then just polish the brass back to brass?
I think heating would work to minimize or eliminate holes or cracks with enough practice and finesse
I know that some metals "work harden" and need to be heated to soften them or they will break.
Just wondering if that's an option for something that bad off
Did you heat the metal to undo work-hardening? If you didn't, that might have been a cause for cracks.
Why can't you fill in the cracks with brass solder or a similar technique?
Looks the the bell of a classic pogo trumpet, the band kids will know.
Can you braze the cracks then smooth and polish it or will brazing change the sound?
Heat the brass to restore its natural softness. It gets work hardened with each bend/hammer blow. Standard procedure for silver and goldsmiths.
I was just practicing with the dent roller specifically. Please check the comment I pinned.
Don’t worry, he’s an expert. Just ask him.
You should remove the temper from the metal by heating to red hot, that would make it easier to smooth.
It was work hardened when it got crumpled. Could you anneal it as you work it to prevent cracks?
Solder the low temp meltable metal for cracks and holes fill it up 😊
I will do whatever I want and actually now I feel like I should go fix a trumpet
Would applying heat help to not need as hard of hits and maybe leave less holes and cracks? I fix old metal car parts doors and quarter panels and sometimes heating a door pounding on it and putting ice immediately on it will pop out certain dents and make less work to sand and bondo
would applying heat help form a proper shape, or would it adversely affect the metal/finish/something I'm unaware of?
It would help reshape the bell. That process is called annealing and I addressed it in the pinned comment on this video. In this video I was basically only testing my hammer technique.
I like how he doesn't want anyone to buff out a trumpet at home....its too dangerous!😂
This isnt targeted to you. Kids watch the channel; you wouldnt want your kid to beat up their first trumpet that YOU spend almost $1000 on because a guy on the internet said it's okay now, would you?
“Don’t try this at home, you don’t have the proper equipment”
*proceeds to hit trumpet with a hammer on top of a glorified funnel*
Let me make it known, I’m making a joke
Think the horn came out well :)
So anyways.. Why didn't you heat up or anneal the bell before working on it?