College Outfield Trick Play I've Never Seen Before
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- čas přidán 28. 02. 2024
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I was expecting the runner at third to tag up prematurely. Good on him for not falling for it.
That what I was expecting.
me too!
I think what you mean is that you were expecting the runner at third to leave the base before the fielder touched the ball. (Runner can leave the base as soon as a fielder touches the ball and doesn't have to wait for a catch to be completed.) The video does not show when the runner at third leaves the bag. With one out and runners in scoring position, this is a timing play, so all the umpires are watching to see if runners leave the bases early. It's possible that the plate umpire, who has responsibility for the runner at third, was fooled by the left fielder's feint and judged the time of the fielder's touch at the feint. Since this game was in the first inning, a coach can't appeal a tagged-up call with video review. In my opinion, this was a stupid act by the left fielder and I wouldn't be surprised if he got an earful of "advice" from the coach at the completion of the half inning.
@@thatzwhat You can’t be serious.
@@parttimehuman Totally serious. There are good reasons why a thoroughly experienced player/coach like Mr Antonelli has not seen this "trick play" before.
Back in American Legion ball, our coach had us do what we called the 3 Ball walk. With a runner on first, when the batter got his third ball in the count, he would throw his bat toward the dugout and start jogging toward first. At the same time, the runner on first would start jogging toward second. By the time everyone figured out that it was only ball 3, the runner was already safe at second and the batter had to return to the plate. It didn't work with runners at 1st and 2nd because the throw to third was too easy. This worked for a while, but eventually the word got out and our opponents were looking for this trick.
That’s ok, we used the CF camera, a monitor in the clubhouse, and a trash can to relay the signs..
Nefarious game..
We used to teach this at our HS 15 years ago. It never worked for us, but we did try it whenever the situation was right.
I was watching college baseball clips the other day, can't remember the team but I noticed they did this same thing - it caught my attention and I thought it was pretty smart. An evolution of the fake-cut/fake-throw in the infield. I'm sure we'll start to see a lot more of this when the situation allows. Great breakdown Matt!
The other cool thing about this is that when the left fielder is faking the catch, the centerfielder has his glove down at his side. He's selling it just as hard too. But no, have never seen this before. But it does remind me of the play you see sometimes in football where the team receiving the punt will have their blockers drift back to the wrong side of the field with a second return man faking the catch of the punt, while it's actually being received near the opposite sideline. In both cases, the team running the fake is depending on the other team to be following the players and not the actual flight of the ball.
I ump college and semi-pro ball for 23 years and never seen that play. That was an excellent play by both outfielders. I hope that the umps were sharp enough notice the most likely fielder to catch the ball, because that’s not a play that you pre-game discuss for coverage. Nice job in discussing the potential and resulting play.
I was actually thinking the umps could get fooled too. The defensive team appeals the play at third for a guy that left early, but the ump calls him safe. Is there a video replay for that?
I've never even thought of this! Interesting!
Slight clarification. If the run scores before the appeal at another base for leaving early has occurred and as long as the runner at third tagged up correctly, the run still counts.
Yep, timing play
Agreed, and explained further here: www.stevetheump.com/scoring_runs.htm
All great points, Matt. Faked out the camera operator.😊 But props to operator for tracking it smooth.
This is the only baseball I watch. Thank you. You make baseball interesting.
"Today in videos that could've been explained in 30 seconds."
I think this was a brilliant yet well rehearsed play. And if Rob Manfred ever hears about it, I'm sure he'll create a new rule to prevent it from being allowed.
My grandson’s high school team has done plays like this. Maybe not this exact play. Their coach is a baseball genius. They won the Missouri state championship last year, 2023
It’s a brilliant defensive play!
If the run scores before the third out (being a player, that is not the run scorer, not tagging up) it counts.
Correct. It would be a time play.
But keep in mind the throw to second is likely to get there before the runner from third can score. So that could prevent the run from scoring anyway.
I'm not 100% sure, but I don't think, the run scores in that scenario. If the runner on 1st or 2nd leaves to early and gets doubled up for the third out, it's a force play because he has to retreat. I think that prevents the run from scoring. Now, if the runner on 3rd and 2nd both tag up correctly and try to score/advance and the throw goes to third to tag out the runner advancing from 2nd, then it would be a matter of whether the runner going home scored before the runner going to 3rd was tagged out.
@@manuelrogus2833 The batter is out because of the caught fly ball. That's the only reason there is a question about tagging up or not. Since there can't be a force play, you have a timing play on the run scoring.
@@MH-Tesla You are absolutely correct. After I commented, I looked it up and it's exactly as you said. Doubling up a runner is considered a timing play, even if the runner that is doubled up is the third out. So, any run that scores before the runner is doubled up counts. I learned something new today. I always thought it was comparable to a conventional inning-ending double play.
Brilliant! Great coaching and training.
Matt a few years back when i played 3rd base and a runner on 2nd the bell was hit to center for a hit but i noticed the runner didn't see it drop so i jumped up and down yelling back to second he didn't tag up. Well yes the runner stopped half way to 3rd and started back to second and got out when he should have scored. As he came off the field i told him to never listen to the other team.😅
You're fortunate that you weren't called for (verbal) obstruction. At the end of the play, the umpire should have signaled time (ball is dead after obstruction call) and awarded the runner third and possibly home if, as you said, "he should have scored" were it not for the obstruction.
Isnt obstruction a delayed deadball?
If you are telling your on player to throw the ball to a base how could that be obstruction? Maybe if i was a runner on base and a ball is hit close to me and i called it as if i was one of the defense players then yes they may call me out but not for telling my on player where to throw the ball.
@@guyray1504 My comment is based on NFHS (high school) baseball rule 2-22-1, where obstruction can be a physical or verbal act that hinders a runner or changes the pattern of play. The baseball case book provides an example similar to your anecdote: R1 attempts to steal second. F2, upon receiving the pitch, throws a pop-up to F6. F5 yells "get back, get back." R1 thinks B2 has hit a pop-up and starts back to first where the runner is tagged out. RULING: This is verbal obstruction and R1 shall be awarded second base.
That's clever, like to see more plays like that
I could see another advantage to this would be having the 'fake' fielder a bit more shallow and perhaps make the runner at 3rd that it's not going to be deep enough to score and perhaps they don't try to tag.
I was thinking about that. If the goal was to catch runners advancing early, setting the Left Fielder a bit deeper would have been better to convince the runners that they had enough time to make it to the next base. If the goal is convince the runners not to run, shifting the Left Fielder a little closer to third would be better, like you said.
The deeper the ball the less we feel the need to leave early to beat the throw. Short is the way to go imo
So I just watched this whole video expecting that one of the runners left early and that this was a great trick play that worked. That’s seven minutes of my life I’m never gonna get back over a trick play that didn’t even work.
❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤❤ thank you
you sound like a man who has never wasted 7 minutes of his life
now we are all worshipping the ground you walk on
Great camera angle. Very helpful. Thanks.
Great analysis about getting the runners to leave early.
Been watching baseball 49 years, I never saw it and I LOVE it!!!
The run won't score assuming you tag the runner at second before the run scores. It's a time play if the guy in 2nd leaves early but the guy on third doesn't.
that can happen or the runner at third could leave early.
My favorite fake play was a runner on second and Babe Ruth in right field. The batter hits a high, deep fly, Babe ran back a couple of steps, then stopped acting as if it was a home run. The runner on second was fooled and turned to jog to third and home. While his back was to Babe, he didn't see him catch the ball (it was not a home run, just a fly ball) and throw to second to double up the runner who wondered why his third base coach was yelling at him.
This is really a no-risk play for the defense and it will work sometimes. I expect that we will see many more teams doing this going forward.
No risk?
@@patron40silver what's the risk?
Thanks for the leap day video
This is kind of similar to where an outfielder knows he's not going to be fast enough to catch a ball hit deep, runs towards where it's probably going to come down, stops a little bit early and looks at it like he IS going to catch it, and then fields it when it hits the ground. This causes runners to not advance as far as they could have.
I saw one a couple of weeks ago where the outfielder stands up like it's an easy catch, but it was actually over his head. He simply turned around and played the rebound off the wall, and his fake kept the runner on first.
Thanks for the breakdown I have never seen that either
Never seen an outfield deek quite like this…..I’ve been around a while. Nice job of thinking outside the box….👍
This scenario tests the focus of the third and first base coaches. They have to be communicating so the runners don’t get fooled.
I know I've never seen it before. This is great!
Actually if the runner at third scores before the runner at second or first is doubled up the run will count. The out of doubling a runner off a base is not considered a "force out" for the purpose of runs not counting.
I saw Ichiro do that when he knew he wasn't going to be able to catch it. He turned at the last minute for the carom off the wall.
So a quick correction. The run only wouldn't score if they get the tag up, appeal, out before R3 touches home. It is a timing play. I had a similar play diring a JUCO game last year, minus the fake catch. They got the double off at first AFTER R3 had scored at home. Run scores.
I watch/attend every single Clemson game. This was the only time I have seen them try it. This was the first game of the season, and I think they thought they may catch them slipping considering it is the first game in several months. It is not signaled in from the coaching staff, but I think those two (Will Taylor in LF will be a high round draft pick this year, and Cam Cannarella is projected as a top 5 pick in 2025) probably have the go ahead to try it since they are trusted guys.
Go Tigers
Right, it can't be signaled by the coaching staff because you never know when you are going to get a fly ball in this situation. It has to be a situational thing.
@@kenconroy4053 I will say this. We have done this multiple times since this video. It is certainly something the coaches have told the guys to try. @matt_antonelli
@@Quadfather2016 I don't doubt this at all. How often does it work? I love the play and don't see any downside. Obviously the word will get out and teams will be aware not to fall for it, but it just give your opponent one more thing to think about.
I have never seen anything like this play. Pretty clever.
I have seen this before. I used to umpire those games where they played by 1880s rules, and they did that a lot. Infielders too.
I think that even if it doesn't work, the other team ends up a little more cautious, a little less certain about what to do. That builds delay into the other team's response.
wow that is so smart
Love this by Clemson.
I'm too amazed at how awesome Clemson's stadium is to pay attention to the play.
Had never seen this before, but it was pretty clever. All it would take is for one of the baserunners to not be paying close attention and tag too early. I like it. This "dupe" may get incorporated on a bigger stage .
My brother showed a few kids this in the 90’s at Mickey Owen Baseball school. Works well if you act it out right.
I recall having seen this tactic from outfielders, but not sure where. I agree this would have to be worked out beforehand with a code word to let the center fielder know that the left fielder isn’t actually attempting to catch the ball.
Back in my hardball and even later in my softball days I was a centerfielder and when a batter got a base hit up the middle I would bend down to scoop up the ball and pretend that it went under my glove and I turn around and take a step to get the ball and a lot of the times the runner would break for 2nd base. that trick work fairly often, especially in softball.
The run may score, it's a time play, even if the deception works.
My 3 smartest MLB outfielder plays I saw...
3. Bo Jackson running hard at LF wall to run down a drive liner, avoids hitting the wall by running up and down⁹ to 🎉 holding runners.
2. Pete Rose LF, bases loaded 9th inning 1 out, all outfielder are pulled in, Cubs 1 out, fly ball to Rose must back up to catch so no chance for Double Play on runner tagging 3rd base, fires a perfect strike to second base bag with that runner standing at short watching. The 2 infielders weren't near the bag or it would have been a double play, runner doesn't score, and Reds go to bat in 10th tied.
1. Roberto Clemente RF, catches a sinking liner sliding on his knees and fires a perfect strike to home, runner is out. 1st, 2nd, 3rd, HP, when a base runner tests Clemente's arm, that base runner is OUT!
Great video!
Just one detail that I think is wrong, though: 4:30, "....and the runner [from 3rd] won't score" if the runner from 1st or 2nd is doubled off: Actually the run *would* count, unless the throw gets to 2nd (or 1st) *before the guy from 3rd gets to the plate.* This came up in a Yankees-Mets game in the '90's. The run would count because the out on the guy who leaves early isn't considered a force play.
I've seen a 14U team practice variations of this, but I do not recall it being executed in game.
I seen this play at an Iowa Cubs game. The ball was hit to right field, the right fielder knew he wasn’t going to make it to the ball so he slowed his run held up his glove as if he was going to make the catch which held the runner on second. He got the ball on a bounce and threw it in. The runner didn’t advance so instead of being on third he’s on second. The next batter sends one to deep center which would have scored a run if the runner was at third.
I think there are good reasons why Mr Antonelli, who has decades of experience playing and coaching baseball at many levels, has never seen that "outfield trick play" before.
Correct me if I'm wrong. There are 2 ways to appeal a runner leaving too early on a tag.
Appeal 1: Throw directly to the base after the catch and appeal to the umpire and
Appeal 2: Give the ball to the pitcher and step on the rubber, then step off and throw to the base.
I have seen in the MLB where R3 leaves early and the defense does Appeal 2 and the other runner still on base gets picked off on purpose before they appeal to protect the run scored. If the defense does Appeal 1 because R3 left early, can R1 or R2 get thrown out on purpose to end the inning before the defense appeals to protect the run scored?
This play run with a ball in the LCF gap caught by CF could also possibly keep a runner at 3b from tagging up at all if the ball was in enough.
Yes.
I was once picked off by a throw from the pitcher to the center fielder. As the pitcher turned I thought who is he throwing to as I saw both 2nd baseman and SS were not near the bag. I was 13 at the time.
If we came up with a creative play we would run it by Coach and if it looked effective in a certain situation we could signal to dugout Coach or whoever and they would signal back to go for it. So if you're on our team and watch the signals you know the trick play is coming. But we didn't improvise trickery without Coach saying it's ok. As a centerfielder I would pickoff runners on 2nd by our SS and 2nd giving the runner plenty of room to lead. Then catcher pitcher and me would signal we are all green and I would sneak from shallow CF and be arriving near 2nd as pitcher is already spun and throwing so we catch runner off guard. It was successful a few times on different teams. And super fun as a centerfielder!
I'd love to see this play in MLB.
COMMUNICATION between the outfields is extremely important!
I thought I'd seen this before in a Cubs game. Maybe it was a little league or college game and I remembered it as a Cubs game because all the zaniest plays happen in Cubs games (see: Javy Baez "stealing first" against the Pirates).
Closest I can find is the one where Ichiro, then with the Marlins, pretends like he's camped under the ball, until the ball hits the wall about 10 feet behind him and he plays the carom perfectly because of course he did.
First time seeing this particular play, but there was a similar play last year. Unfortunately I can't remember the game, but the outfielder was camped under the ball with the runner at third tagging. At the very last second, the outfielder squatted down to make the catch, (I assume) in the hopes of getting the runner to leave a split second early as if he had caught the ball standing up. I don't remember the outcome but I did think it was an interesting tactic.
Never worked on it but had kids try something similar
I played HS, Pony, and US Navy baseball (hardball) teammate in HS (Cecil Fielder) , my younger brother played with the Giambi brothers in West Covina. I pitched a played shortstop; we would run a fake catch by SS or 2nd base with runners on and less than two outs on a fly ball that could move the runners over. We would use a color that was insignificant to the ballgame as a reminder. Pick off plays would be called "daylight" or "night time". I don't recall ever running a fake in the outfield as Clemson performed, even as a coach in Pony/ Little League. We also ran tricky drop the line drive with runners on turning double plays; that move was 50/50 and success was based on the defenders ability to stop the ball, drop it and quickly pick it up and fire away. The Navy team played overseas unorganized against Japan, Taiwan, P.I., etc. also played cricket.
Top of the first - is that REALLY the best time to try this?
I was playing 3b in a lawyers league softball game in Honolulu, and the other team hit a double to left field with a runner on second. I committed a fake move that I was about to catch the throw from the left fielder at third-and so the runner from second slid into third instead of running home.
In fact, there was no throw to third because the left fielder was still chasing the ball down. But I made the runner slide into third and that ticked him off. I think his words were “I could have got injured sliding, you shit!”
But hey, he didn’t score and so I saved a sure run from scoring. Funny the things we remember in our minds…here, 40 years later!!! 😢
In a friendly game, if a guy fears sliding then he should not slide at any time.
If the ump knew what he was doing he would have ejected you. It's completely illegal in every softball league that I've ever umpired or played in, which are a lot, across the country, for the exact reason that the ticked off guy complained about. A fake catch in the outfield is not the same thing as a fake catch against a runner. Most umpires and referees unfortunately should be no where near officiating games though, so I'm not surprised you weren't tossed.
Just watching the clip, the ball off the bat was clearly headed closer towards center than left. I can only assume the runners have a much better view than me. I just don’t think the left fielder was close enough to really cause any confusion with his act.
Matt- if third base tags and scores and second base leaves early, the run counts unless the out on the runner is made before r3 crosses the plate. This isn’t a force play. It’s an appeal. Appeals are time plays.
Another thing the defense could do there is, if CF going to catch, have the LF pretend as though he's going to catch but come in way further towards the infield so the runner at 3rd thinks it is not as deep and may not tag
I'm not much of a baseball guy, so on first watch, I didn't realise the fake throw was to home. I thought it was toward third in order to keep the runner on second base.
I never seen it before
But it can’t hurt to try
Wouldn't the run score if the runner from third both tagged up and cross the plate before the runner was doubled off second?
What do you mean a run won't score, if R3 scores before an appeal on R2 for the 3rd out it's a time play and R3's run counts
Brilliant attempt and the fake out being a second or so before the actual catch was made is the real brilliance and why this will definitely work another time imo.
The key for it to work is the spacing of CF & LF so the runners' eyes don't see both at the same time and catch on to the trick. They hope one of the runners picks up the LFer instead of the CFer.
You missed the biggest point, they dont need to throw the runner out at the plate or third. In fact letting the run score adds to the play. They have the pitcher step off and appeal the runner left too early and they win the out, they can appeal at each base if needed. additionally, the 3rd baseman can tell the ump before the game even starts they might run a trick play on any tag ups from 3rd and the ump can watch for it so he doesent missed the early jump. all in all this is a fantastic play and real heads up my Clemson. The outfields have a code word when they run trick plays so instead of yelling i got it they same something like "sally" "sally" "sally" and that alerts shortstop second baseman and other outfieders. Good play here
Yea I pitched from little league to highschool and at age 13 I played travel baseball for coaches that either played pro or college. Now of all of my years playing I've never seen a play like this done this way before but I've seen it in the major leagues to where the infield might trick the base runner and try to make the runner to think that the ball was on the infield. That's why as a base runner you have to be alert on where the ball is because of the defense catches you with your head down and not paying attention to the ball well then the defense can fool you. There was a play on the infield that we were taught and that is if the ball was popped up on the infield and you catch the runners not paying attention or not running. Well then we were taught to let the ball drop because you might get a double play out of it. So that's why as a base runner you have to pay attention on what's going on around you so that you don't get tricked
Matt, pretty sure this would be a timing play and the run would score if they crossed before the out was made at second or first.
I've never seen it in baseball, but I have seen it on occasion in football kickoffs where one returner will fake a catch and starts running as if they have the ball a second or two before the other actually catches the ball. If some of the players on the kickoff team are fooled, the player that actually caught the ball will have an open field for a long return.
What they did was defensive obstruction, causing or trying to cause the offense to make a mistake. The umps could have awarded all runners an additional base…
Adrian Beltre and Elvis Andrus (3B and SS) did this all the time for the Texas Rangers. They did it just for fun!
Any attempt to deke a baserunner is worth it if the opportunity presents itself. As you noted, it may not work very often, but the one time out of 25 that it does work could make a big difference in the game.
Skunk in the outfield. I would like to hear you explain this.
If a runner tags up on a fly ball and the catch is bobbled. Do you have to wait until the fielder has complete control to tag?
Nope. You can leave when ball is first touched by defense.
The college kids are always thinking, communicating and coming up with creative stuff. Once they go pro, the coaching staff doesn't like it when the players have some control. Pro manager be like "I didn't call that play!"
This reminds me of the ‘fake DP’ we used to run on a baserunner stealing from first when ball was ripped into outfield.
This is essentially the play action fake of baseball. If done in RF, you could get a double play. It’s the coach’s job to keep eye on the ball.
It’s also tough cause the CF can’t play dumb THAT long. He’s gotta position himself.
Never seen this ever attempted im surprised noone thought of this before. Might be able to catch a running tagging up too early. Especially how most base runners are bad alot of the time
lol, I used to do this all the time. If you can divert the base runners eyes for an instant, it may be helpful.
I was tagged out on an inside the park home run by a sneaky catcher who faked catching the ball when I was two thirds down the third base line. I raced back towards third, my coach screaming to run home. By the time I headed back home, the catcher DID have the ball.
hey if it works 1 in 100 times might be the difference of 1-2 extra wins per season
As a L fielder, we just want to be in the game. But what if the center fielder believed the L fielder caught it. What was coming his way? That's crazy. I was Rickey Henderson's competition that landed me on the JV. He mastered every sport.
I’ve never seen it. I like the play.
The problem with doing this below this level (D-1) is that it’s unlikely the umpires would notice a runner leaving early. At the HS or youth levels the umpires usually don’t notice when a runner leaves early or misses a base completely.
The fake, in this case, would not work to entice the man on second to tag up early because the throw's too shallow to third. It would only be effective to get the man on third to leave early. In this game, Clemson may have appealed the runner leaving early before the next pitch; but, if it had been effective, whoever sent you the clip, would've told you about it. (Gotta believe it's been tried in the majors at some point in it's long history.)
Clemson did not appeal the play because nobody left early.
I think it would help even more if the left fielder (in this situation) would have been flailing his arms as if waving the center fielder off, like saying, "I got it; I got it." Might help to throw the runners off a little more ... ???
Hold on. The run would score unless the third out is made before the runner from third touches home. I expect that doubling the runner off second could be quickly completed in time, and there is nothing bad about doubling the man off first if that is all you can get. You've got a potential 4-out inning if they double a man off first or second after the run touches home, if the man on third had also left early.
You wouldn't necessarily avoid the run if, for example, the runner on second left early. If the runner from third properly tagged and reached home before the runner on second was out, the run would count.
So, how'd it work out!!!
I have seen something similar in little league - the left fielder did not have a left eye and had no depth perception and thought he was catching a lot of pop flies the center fielder was catching.
Ichiro used to do this all the time
i saw this when vandy was playing someone waaaaaaay back in the day
In 62 years of watching and playing baseball, I’ve never seen this.
Those guys, ABSOLUTELY, fooled the cameraman! 😂😂😂
The out on appeal for the runner on second or first would only stop the run from scoring if it was completed before the runner on third touched home. It's a timing play.
Of course, if the runner on third left early, and the appeal was made on him, he would be out, and his run would not count.
And it is unlikely an appeal at first would prevent a run unless the baserunner didn't run hard to home (though a possibility in today's game).
I'm not sure that's correct. In this case, it creates a force play which is unaffected by timing.
@@danacoleman4007 No, it is not a force play. As others have correctly said, it is a time play. There can never be a force play once the batter is put out on a caught fly ball.
@@alanhess9306 hmm. Ok. So in the scenario we're discussing, in order to be put out, does the base runner need to be tagged with the ball or can the defenseman just touch the bag?
@@danacoleman4007 The defense can tag the runner or step on the base that was left early. It is an appeal play which is a time play. It is not a force play.