Great video. You talk about it a little bit, but I want to add that a lot of the cards on the ban list aren't just there because of power reasons, but also because they are outright design mistakes. And those mistakes where then exploited because in the long run, players will optimize the fun out of a game. * Kakugo is an ice that punishes you for breaking it, and does so repeatedly. * Breached Dome is completely uninteractive archives poison that can just win the game outright. * Bryan Stinson is an upgrade for no apparent reason, is super swingy but still has an absolutely massive trash cost. * Currents are an interesting idea, but are inherently unbalanced due to the game mechanics. Corps have an inherent advantage in removing Runner currents due to their ability to fast-advance Agendas (or simply play 2/1 Agendas like Hostile Takeover or 15 Minutes). * Clan Vengeance and SVA really needed to say "from a corp card".
Kakugo on the face doesn't seem so bad? A card like Bankhar exists so I'm curious, with the Jinteki deck grinder tools being banned what keeps Kakugo on the list? There are quite a few ICE right now that have strong effects even when broken.
Excellent video. Started playing netrunner in 2020 and loved hearing the older cards that are banned and what builds they were used in. Very informative. Thanks so much for this wonderful content.
Just getting back into Netrunner and really enjoying these videos, you're a fantastic presenter! I'd love to see state of the meta style videos, like "here are the decks you'd be likely to see at any given tournament at the moment, how they work and how to play around them"
Hey Emily! Welcome back to the game! We're just about to have a new set drop in two weeks, alongside a massive rotation in the Standard format, so we'll have to wait a bit before we can confidentally talk about the expected meta. But that being said, once things are settled, I'd love to put together a video like that. Thanks so much for the kind words. Don't hesitate if you have any questions when it comes to catching back up to the modern game. Cheers!
You can't just talk about pu potato and not say the story! When this archetype of grinder came around a group of players were handing out potatoes for all player who were using this deck to put on their ID cards. This happened during a regional and I think also national. Imagine watching a livestream and seeing a potato on top of a id.
There was never a punchline given out to the online community. As far as I am aware alot of the players just did it because the 2 best pu players who one of them won the regional were doing it. The regional might have had a explanation. The world/national tournament did not. You saw whiterun eating a potato in the video gathering the power of the potato. However if you want to make a guess, I would say the deck was so easy to play compared to the rest of the decks at the time that a potato could play it, I mean clearly look at the id, it is right there. Who is controlling who? Whiterun's deck explanation took away my theory though.
I think the dangerous Cayambe Grid combo they wanted to stop was with Formicary I'm pretty sure you could force the runner to pay Cayambe twice by rezzing Formicary after their first payment
I mentioned that combination in some on-screen text in the video! It's wild - that interaction is replicable with Manegarm Skunkworks and Anoetic Void, and no one is playing it.
This normally lets me relax and I love netrunner I hope it will get me some sleep I lost someone today and cNt sleep, I will watch again of course but very calming and I can feel your professional toned excitement thank you!
Excellent and informative video. I'm fairly new to Netrunner, so I watch your videos with netrunnerdb open, it helps me to understand. Have you ever done a video on the history of the meta game in netrunner? It would be fascinating to understand the evolution of this game.
Cheers Nick! Glad you dug it. I unfortunately don't have any content that recaps the overall evolution of the game. The closest I could recommend is 'A Time Traveler's Guide to Netrunner', which is a podcast that recounts one player's chronological experiences playing competitive Netrunner in the US. It's a fascinating listen, as much as it may be a bit more niche than you might be looking for.
24:40 Yeah, Currents were basically Enchantments in Magic (or similar games - permanent buffspells). Their unique mechanics give them the general disease that most Magic Editions have: It only works in a balanced fashion while the respective edition that introduced them is the newest, or the mechanic is kept as a new standard in every subsequent edition, for otherwise it becomes one of those mechanics that have absolutely no counter a few years down the line, because those counters (mechanics) only existed in that one edition. While Currents do remove themselves naturally, it seems almost neglectful to not have at least one in your deck if they are allowed, as they basically act as an extra piece of equipment in a new equipment slot benefiting you passively that you'd otherwise leave empty for absolutely no reason.
I have made a cube with a bunch of cards to play in a draft like mode with my friend. I was thinking in a way to balance currents and I came up with two possible solutions: Timer (every current card just hang out a couple of turns, say 5; or changing the clause to trash a current, besides playing another current, when any Agenda is scored OR stolen. Do you have any other idea? Awesome video, again
I think they mentioned putting like 3 "power counters" on currents and when they run out the current is removed from the game, or something like that. So yeah, timer.
This conversation came up oh-so often during the reign of currents! The 'lifespan' idea was pretty popular, and I think lines up with the Fate mechanic in Legend of the Five Rings. I've heard the 'scored or stolen' clause before, and I like that one a fair bit. I remember hearing ideas that both Runners and Corps could 'purge' Currents, similarly to Viruses, but I'm pretty sure that would make Currents near unplayable.
Boat will be added to the list eventually. It is a very poorly designed card. Invalidating ice type and strength, not having the AI subtype (avoiding existing counters), trying to balance it by giving it a high cost (this rarely works in card games), being one of the hardest runner card types to interact with & has a pretty trivial cost to add more counters. Not well thought out, and they’re clearly saving it from banning because it’s new.
Sunny’s console is also exactly that. It trades trace for charge counters. That was also strong for the time, and had the same arguments being made. But hitting the surrounding economy was enough to balance it. Tech in hardware uninstall/destruction and the runner will not be able to get that second install easily.
@Moocha there is no easy tech against the boat, a pitiful amount of cards that can interact with hardware and are very hard to pull off and require multiple card combos. While runner can easily tutor boat from multiple car effects not to mention every single one of those tutoring effects also reduces the cost of putting it in the game often time going down on board for 5 creds which is laughable. The amount of recursion for runner vs corp also means you can get it easily out of heap with let's say Katorga Breakout. It's the most ridiculous card in the netrunner since the very first coreset, there is no arguing about it.
Good thing you didn't also do rotated cards that used to be banned/restricted, or i would have been contractually required to write a massive screed about how much I hate Film Critic here in the comments! :P
I'm pretty sure Ysengrin is going to be doing more Eternal content, but I personally have very little Eternal experience :/ That's something I need to look into fixing.
I think the sad thing about a lot of these bans is that they could be solved with an errata...which unfortunately you can't really do with a card game outside of the NADP added influence mechanic they first introduced instead of a banlist. In a lot of cases, upping influence or reducing the amount of copies of a card you could have to just one would balance stuff like Temujin out IMO, but alas.
I totally agree, but I do think erratas come at a huge cost to accessibility, and I prefer that the game errs on the accessibility side. A lot of people have strong opinions on 'Limit 1 Per Deck' clauses, as it contributes to the feeling that certain games are won/lost if players do or do not draw into their singular powerful cards. I currently fall into the camp, but I recognize that some folks want that splashy sort of power.
@@MetropoleGrid That's a very good point that it would make decks with it far too unreliable with a limit of 1. Then again I play Apex, so I'm used to *a lot* of unreliability XD I also personally house-rules with my friends that all currents go away with a score *or* steal and it curbs them pretty well it seems, but there's still a lot of potential keeping them around as a concept for shenanigans.
Cayambe Grid was banned because of a absolute lockout glacier with Earth Station: SEA Headsquarters. It was the strongest glacier, with easy setup, that made the game absolutly miserable even for runners who teched against glacier.
@@MetropoleGrid couldn't say. I'm not on the SBT anymore and not sure if they revisited it last time. Chances are no, it needs to sta banned as long as Earth Station is still in standard. It's a far too easy instant glacier.
My proposal for Most Wanted list and any kind banned list would be that it be based on Championships Wins, like all cards in World winning deck gets +1 influence..prob banned be too much. But that would push for more creative deck building. Or something like top10 most used cards (except core/neutral cards) are getting 1 influence or banned for a year
Andrej is this a cry for help? I could hear your voice begin to break when discussing Enforced Curfew, I think you should tell us how you really feel about having an incomplete collection! I'd be happy to fix this hole in your heart by shipping one over, I'm sure Italy->Canada postage is extremely reasonable.
The amount of Economy breaking cards that NSG has introduced to the net is staggering, it blows my mind how badly is the game tested. - Endurance - which is basically untrashable Aumakua as a console that uses 0 econ, comes precharged to break every single ice, charges itself literally every turn and provides staggering +2 MU. - Botulus - A new Data Sucker on super extreme steroids. Now you don't need to worry about ice str (look Endurance) or type. You can (like Endurance) run any Ice regardless or type and str for again (like Endurance) 0 credits! Does it charge itself for this crazy effect? It sure does, every turn! - Stargate - It's like Imp but you get to repeat it endlessly. Every round you can run and trash cards for 0! cost EVEN UNTRASHABLE ONES. That is insane. Oh by the way you get to see top 3 cards in R&D FOR FREE every time you run it... - Tremolo - breaker that can break subroutines for 0 credits. All you need is 3 cybernetic hardware which used to be very scarce and not as effective. These days they are extremely powerful and every runner runs at least 1-2 - Tsakhia "Bankhar" Gantulga - break any server for cards discard. Its Faust all over again but this time it doesn't even take MU AND you don't need to increase it strength. Another card that was put on maximum steroid effect. - Hippocampic Mechanocytes - Ever wanted to have a hand size of 10 with 0 downsides now you can! Easily and for 0! credits, comes with +2 handsize and you can charge it endlessly to whatever you desire(cybernetic hardware anyone?). - K2CP Turbine - every single ice breaker gets +2 str AND it's not even unique! This program saves you no less than 6 credits every turn when you don't need to increase your breakers str anymore making stuff like Begemot insane as they break ANY number of barrier subs for 1 credit! Insane economy - World Tree - the most broken card tutoring in the game sine its inception. Tutor not only ANY type of card in the game but also lower it's cost by 3 credits to play! (5 cred boat anyone? 0 cost breakers? endless loop of Liberated Accounts and Daily Cast) - Dr. Nuka Vrolyck - repeatable chargable draw 3! cards per click. Why have just 3 diesels when you could have 6, 9 or even 12 of them - Boomerang - another break any Ice of any type of any str card that cycles back into your deck cause ... reasons. In my very personal opinion it's quite clear that NSG doesn't give a crap about balancing and just want cool effects that overshadow anything FFg ever done in this game regardless of little balance there is in their designs. I had a really good time with revised coreset and 2 cycles when the netrunner got cancelled. now I can't really say that anymore it's just so one sided, Corp is there to provide runner with a bit of challenge but not overly so. If you want to win as corp the only way is to flatline runner, cause scoring 7 points is next to impossible these days
Hey Andrew! While the folks at Null Signal Games are definitely, on average, printing more consistently playable cards (which I think is great!), I think it's really easy to look back at old FFG Netrunner with rose-tinted glasses. I just wanted to put this in context, when comparing NSG to the FFG era: If you look at the current Standard Ban List, this is the distribution of banned cards across Standard legal sets: - [FFG] Data and Destiny - 4/55 - *7%* banned cards - [FFG] Flashpoint Cycle - 18/120 - *15%* banned cards - [FFG] Red Sand Cycle - 11/120 - *9%* banned cards - [FFG] Kitara Cycle - 8/120 - *7%* banned cards - [FFG] Reign and Reverie - 2/58 - *3%* banned cards - [FFG] Magnum Opus - 2/6 - *33%* banned cards - [NSG] Ashes Cycle - 6/130 - *5%* banned cards - [NSG] Gateway - 0/77 - *0%* banned cards - [NSG] Midnight Sun - 0/65 - *0%* banned cards - [NSG] Parhleion - ?/63 - *?%* banned cards Now, I think it's obvious we're going to see some additions to the Standard Ban List in the near future (a mixture of NSG and FFG cards). But even if every single card you highlighted ends up banned (which I think is far from necessary), NSG is right on track with FFG, if not better (this is assuming that the goal of balance is to have as few banned cards as possible, which I think is far from the truth). (I think a more interesting topic would be to compare the percentage of 'playable' cards across each Standard legal set. NSG definitely has a huge edge there.) NSG puts a lot of effort into balancing and testing their cards. If you're interested, they're often looking for volunteers for their playtesting team. Be the change you want to see!
@@MetropoleGrid Hey Andrei, thank you for taking the time to reply to my rant :) I like your optimistic approach and always trying to look on the bright side. I do enjoy your content quite a bit I must say. You definitely have a point in looking at good ol' times that might or might not have been and I see what you are trying to convey. I do not think it's actually paint a full picture though. Even though FFG might have a higher ban rate it's also cause the response to changing meta was much quicker and swifter. Does less amount of banned card tell the story of better balance or lack of interaction with game state and less care in the balancing aspect? I can only tell for myself I never felt there were so many unbalanced meta warping cards in rotation as they are at this very moment. Even though there are still great cards produced and fun moments to be had. And even still there are many cards and moments when I scratch my head wondering what the designers have thought... I fully understand you can't compare a money making machine to a non-profit organisation in terms or man power I do not think it's what is problematic about NSG though. It's the design direction they take with this game. A lot of "cool" ideas like economy-less cards are breaking fundamentals of the game. Having more designs like Boomerang, Bankhar, Endurance or Botulus invalidates 20-30% of corp cards most of all ice and limits the amount of viable archetypes. In addition this breaks the game's credit economy between Runner and Corp clearly favouring one side. I get it, innovation is the lifeblood of any card games and you have to bring new mechanics and ideas, without them it quickly becomes stale and uninteresting. There has to be balance though not only in the playtesting but experience as well. Design ideas like current very heavy sabotage meta create a really non-fun environment in which one side does it's cool tricks while other sees it's 60% of cards in the deck land in the bin with nothing to defend yourself with. Never mind the win rate of such encounters the enjoyment of such games (similar to unstoppable boat) is clearly one sided. I can imagine preparing a cycle of cards in advance cannot be an easy task and a lot of work needs to be sinked in to make a good product but without it... Well you get the meta where 12 out of 16 top world players bring the same card and have the same game plan to play out... Thank you recommendation of the playtesting group ;) I will look into the volunteering as I love the game but it frustrates the heck out of me when I see certain aspects being pushed to the (breaking) limit. Rant 2.0 over and out. Looking forward to your new content for Netrunner!
I also do not think that all of the cards I highlighted are meant to be placed on the banned list but in combination with each other and others they warp the game balance (in my opinion) and create unhealthy meta
For example at min. 5:16 for 'accelerated diagnostic' or 'BOOM!' i can't understand what the dots near the name mean and why there is some space between them
@@lorenzomessina7148 Those are influence pips! To include cards from outside of your deck's faction, you have to spend influence. Each copy of a card costs between 0 to 5 influence (each card has its influence cost marked on the card), and most identities have a fifteen influence budget to spend. In the example decklist at 5:16, that NBN deck is spending 3 influence on 3 copies of the HB card Accelerated Diagnostics, 6 influence on 2 copies of the Weyland card Boom!, 4 influence on 2 copies of the Weyland card Power Shutdown, and 1 influence on a single copy of the neutral agenda Global Food Initiative (neutral cards rarely cost influence - all factions must spend influence to include neutral cards that cost influence).
A banned card is (or was) banned as a result of balance concerns at the time. Separate to that, to ensure that formats stay both fresh and of a manageable card pool size, formats experience regular 'rotations'. For example in the Standard format, roughly once a year coinciding with the release of a new cycle (a block of 120 new cards), the oldest cycle that is currently legal in the Standard format rotates out and leaves the Standard format (or in other words, cycles out). As an example, next year when NSG's upcoming 'Dawn' set releases, all of the remaining FFG cards in the Standard card pool are rotating out of the Standard format. This is going to be the largest rotation Standard has ever experienced, and a pretty exciting time.
I respectfully disagree with your Employee Strike take. To me that is a runner card that says "I see you have brought something oppressive to the table, but I came here to play Netrunner". Same thing with Interdiction. That card punishes a corp for trying to be sneaky with their defensive upgrades and does nothing to a rezzed board.
Regarding Employee Strike, I agree, but from the Corp's side of the table who is now saying, "I see you have brought something oppressive to the table. I came here to play Netrunner..." :(
Everyone's just here to hear you talk about why 419 was banned and won't ever come back
Its because he's black.
😭
What's funny is..... 419 is now back lol
@@mrchilixd5297 clearly due to the BLM movement and political climate right now.
Jee wizz, I sure am glad that 419 is banned in standard ATM. Would hate to think of the meta with them back in.
"if you find your bread to be too spicy" lmao
Great video.
You talk about it a little bit, but I want to add that a lot of the cards on the ban list aren't just there because of power reasons, but also because they are outright design mistakes. And those mistakes where then exploited because in the long run, players will optimize the fun out of a game.
* Kakugo is an ice that punishes you for breaking it, and does so repeatedly.
* Breached Dome is completely uninteractive archives poison that can just win the game outright.
* Bryan Stinson is an upgrade for no apparent reason, is super swingy but still has an absolutely massive trash cost.
* Currents are an interesting idea, but are inherently unbalanced due to the game mechanics. Corps have an inherent advantage in removing Runner currents due to their ability to fast-advance Agendas (or simply play 2/1 Agendas like Hostile Takeover or 15 Minutes).
* Clan Vengeance and SVA really needed to say "from a corp card".
Kakugo on the face doesn't seem so bad? A card like Bankhar exists so I'm curious, with the Jinteki deck grinder tools being banned what keeps Kakugo on the list?
There are quite a few ICE right now that have strong effects even when broken.
Thanks for the amazing content Andrej! This video was a fantastic idea masterfully executed.
Excellent video. Started playing netrunner in 2020 and loved hearing the older cards that are banned and what builds they were used in. Very informative. Thanks so much for this wonderful content.
Just getting back into Netrunner and really enjoying these videos, you're a fantastic presenter! I'd love to see state of the meta style videos, like "here are the decks you'd be likely to see at any given tournament at the moment, how they work and how to play around them"
Hey Emily! Welcome back to the game!
We're just about to have a new set drop in two weeks, alongside a massive rotation in the Standard format, so we'll have to wait a bit before we can confidentally talk about the expected meta. But that being said, once things are settled, I'd love to put together a video like that.
Thanks so much for the kind words. Don't hesitate if you have any questions when it comes to catching back up to the modern game. Cheers!
Feedback: Great format, loved it!
"Take that, Daeg." 🤣
Glad you were able to get commentary about the new banlist into the video. Great work!
You can't just talk about pu potato and not say the story!
When this archetype of grinder came around a group of players were handing out potatoes for all player who were using this deck to put on their ID cards. This happened during a regional and I think also national. Imagine watching a livestream and seeing a potato on top of a id.
This feels like the punchline to a joke I'm still waiting for... why the potatoes???
There was never a punchline given out to the online community. As far as I am aware alot of the players just did it because the 2 best pu players who one of them won the regional were doing it. The regional might have had a explanation. The world/national tournament did not. You saw whiterun eating a potato in the video gathering the power of the potato.
However if you want to make a guess, I would say the deck was so easy to play compared to the rest of the decks at the time that a potato could play it, I mean clearly look at the id, it is right there. Who is controlling who?
Whiterun's deck explanation took away my theory though.
Thanks for shouting this out! I'll be honest, I never understood the deep potato lore (...and I'm not sure I do yet).
I think the dangerous Cayambe Grid combo they wanted to stop was with Formicary
I'm pretty sure you could force the runner to pay Cayambe twice by rezzing Formicary after their first payment
I mentioned that combination in some on-screen text in the video! It's wild - that interaction is replicable with Manegarm Skunkworks and Anoetic Void, and no one is playing it.
Sifr was the card that caused me to stop playing the first time. 419 stopped me playing the second time!
Hopefully Boat doesn't stop you a third time
Man, I hope you make this video a few months ago.... awesome video! Great contents lately, my man. Cherrs
We just launched our trailer for a netrunner webseries!
This normally lets me relax and I love netrunner I hope it will get me some sleep I lost someone today and cNt sleep, I will watch again of course but very calming and I can feel your professional toned excitement thank you!
Hey Kwenty. I'm really sorry to hear that. I hope you're doing alright.
Great content. Well done!
The time Crowdfunding got ban but Rezeki is legal was wild.
Excellent and informative video. I'm fairly new to Netrunner, so I watch your videos with netrunnerdb open, it helps me to understand. Have you ever done a video on the history of the meta game in netrunner? It would be fascinating to understand the evolution of this game.
Cheers Nick! Glad you dug it. I unfortunately don't have any content that recaps the overall evolution of the game. The closest I could recommend is 'A Time Traveler's Guide to Netrunner', which is a podcast that recounts one player's chronological experiences playing competitive Netrunner in the US. It's a fascinating listen, as much as it may be a bit more niche than you might be looking for.
They took preemptive action against Preemptive Action. That's deep! :D
24:40 Yeah, Currents were basically Enchantments in Magic (or similar games - permanent buffspells). Their unique mechanics give them the general disease that most Magic Editions have: It only works in a balanced fashion while the respective edition that introduced them is the newest, or the mechanic is kept as a new standard in every subsequent edition, for otherwise it becomes one of those mechanics that have absolutely no counter a few years down the line, because those counters (mechanics) only existed in that one edition. While Currents do remove themselves naturally, it seems almost neglectful to not have at least one in your deck if they are allowed, as they basically act as an extra piece of equipment in a new equipment slot benefiting you passively that you'd otherwise leave empty for absolutely no reason.
I have made a cube with a bunch of cards to play in a draft like mode with my friend. I was thinking in a way to balance currents and I came up with two possible solutions: Timer (every current card just hang out a couple of turns, say 5; or changing the clause to trash a current, besides playing another current, when any Agenda is scored OR stolen.
Do you have any other idea?
Awesome video, again
I think they mentioned putting like 3 "power counters" on currents and when they run out the current is removed from the game, or something like that. So yeah, timer.
This conversation came up oh-so often during the reign of currents! The 'lifespan' idea was pretty popular, and I think lines up with the Fate mechanic in Legend of the Five Rings. I've heard the 'scored or stolen' clause before, and I like that one a fair bit. I remember hearing ideas that both Runners and Corps could 'purge' Currents, similarly to Viruses, but I'm pretty sure that would make Currents near unplayable.
Boat will be added to the list eventually. It is a very poorly designed card. Invalidating ice type and strength, not having the AI subtype (avoiding existing counters), trying to balance it by giving it a high cost (this rarely works in card games), being one of the hardest runner card types to interact with & has a pretty trivial cost to add more counters. Not well thought out, and they’re clearly saving it from banning because it’s new.
Sunny’s console is also exactly that. It trades trace for charge counters. That was also strong for the time, and had the same arguments being made. But hitting the surrounding economy was enough to balance it.
Tech in hardware uninstall/destruction and the runner will not be able to get that second install easily.
@Moocha there is no easy tech against the boat, a pitiful amount of cards that can interact with hardware and are very hard to pull off and require multiple card combos. While runner can easily tutor boat from multiple car effects not to mention every single one of those tutoring effects also reduces the cost of putting it in the game often time going down on board for 5 creds which is laughable.
The amount of recursion for runner vs corp also means you can get it easily out of heap with let's say Katorga Breakout.
It's the most ridiculous card in the netrunner since the very first coreset, there is no arguing about it.
Good thing you didn't also do rotated cards that used to be banned/restricted, or i would have been contractually required to write a massive screed about how much I hate Film Critic here in the comments! :P
I nearly did all the cards currently listed as 'banned' on netrunnerdb, just because I wanted to talk about Museum :D
Startup Restore humanity has Mavirus and sandbox
That they do, but it doesn't have that patented Jinteki bite we all want, does it?
You should do a video with YsengrinSC discussing the potential Eternal decks that can be built out of banned standard cards.
I'm pretty sure Ysengrin is going to be doing more Eternal content, but I personally have very little Eternal experience :/ That's something I need to look into fixing.
Cool video = )
I think the sad thing about a lot of these bans is that they could be solved with an errata...which unfortunately you can't really do with a card game outside of the NADP added influence mechanic they first introduced instead of a banlist.
In a lot of cases, upping influence or reducing the amount of copies of a card you could have to just one would balance stuff like Temujin out IMO, but alas.
I totally agree, but I do think erratas come at a huge cost to accessibility, and I prefer that the game errs on the accessibility side. A lot of people have strong opinions on 'Limit 1 Per Deck' clauses, as it contributes to the feeling that certain games are won/lost if players do or do not draw into their singular powerful cards. I currently fall into the camp, but I recognize that some folks want that splashy sort of power.
@@MetropoleGrid That's a very good point that it would make decks with it far too unreliable with a limit of 1. Then again I play Apex, so I'm used to *a lot* of unreliability XD
I also personally house-rules with my friends that all currents go away with a score *or* steal and it curbs them pretty well it seems, but there's still a lot of potential keeping them around as a concept for shenanigans.
Very interesting video for new players like me
Cayambe Grid was banned because of a absolute lockout glacier with Earth Station: SEA Headsquarters.
It was the strongest glacier, with easy setup, that made the game absolutly miserable even for runners who teched against glacier.
Fascinating. Do you think it's something you'd fear now with the modern cardpool?
@@MetropoleGrid couldn't say. I'm not on the SBT anymore and not sure if they revisited it last time. Chances are no, it needs to sta banned as long as Earth Station is still in standard. It's a far too easy instant glacier.
My proposal for Most Wanted list and any kind banned list would be that it be based on Championships Wins, like all cards in World winning deck gets +1 influence..prob banned be too much. But that would push for more creative deck building.
Or something like top10 most used cards (except core/neutral cards) are getting 1 influence or banned for a year
That could be a very cool separate format
Watching this on September 9th, 2023 🤖 and I hope "Synchronicity" is a card's title that's banned 😆
1:10:25 what about pad campaign?
Andrej is this a cry for help? I could hear your voice begin to break when discussing Enforced Curfew, I think you should tell us how you really feel about having an incomplete collection!
I'd be happy to fix this hole in your heart by shipping one over, I'm sure Italy->Canada postage is extremely reasonable.
"If you love something, let it go." :p
The amount of Economy breaking cards that NSG has introduced to the net is staggering, it blows my mind how badly is the game tested.
- Endurance - which is basically untrashable Aumakua as a console that uses 0 econ, comes precharged to break every single ice, charges itself literally every turn and provides staggering +2 MU.
- Botulus - A new Data Sucker on super extreme steroids. Now you don't need to worry about ice str (look Endurance) or type. You can (like Endurance) run any Ice regardless or type and str for again (like Endurance) 0 credits! Does it charge itself for this crazy effect? It sure does, every turn!
- Stargate - It's like Imp but you get to repeat it endlessly. Every round you can run and trash cards for 0! cost EVEN UNTRASHABLE ONES. That is insane. Oh by the way you get to see top 3 cards in R&D FOR FREE every time you run it...
- Tremolo - breaker that can break subroutines for 0 credits. All you need is 3 cybernetic hardware which used to be very scarce and not as effective. These days they are extremely powerful and every runner runs at least 1-2
- Tsakhia "Bankhar" Gantulga - break any server for cards discard. Its Faust all over again but this time it doesn't even take MU AND you don't need to increase it strength. Another card that was put on maximum steroid effect.
- Hippocampic Mechanocytes - Ever wanted to have a hand size of 10 with 0 downsides now you can! Easily and for 0! credits, comes with +2 handsize and you can charge it endlessly to whatever you desire(cybernetic hardware anyone?).
- K2CP Turbine - every single ice breaker gets +2 str AND it's not even unique! This program saves you no less than 6 credits every turn when you don't need to increase your breakers str anymore making stuff like Begemot insane as they break ANY number of barrier subs for 1 credit! Insane economy
- World Tree - the most broken card tutoring in the game sine its inception. Tutor not only ANY type of card in the game but also lower it's cost by 3 credits to play! (5 cred boat anyone? 0 cost breakers? endless loop of Liberated Accounts and Daily Cast)
- Dr. Nuka Vrolyck - repeatable chargable draw 3! cards per click. Why have just 3 diesels when you could have 6, 9 or even 12 of them
- Boomerang - another break any Ice of any type of any str card that cycles back into your deck cause ... reasons.
In my very personal opinion it's quite clear that NSG doesn't give a crap about balancing and just want cool effects that overshadow anything FFg ever done in this game regardless of little balance there is in their designs. I had a really good time with revised coreset and 2 cycles when the netrunner got cancelled. now I can't really say that anymore it's just so one sided, Corp is there to provide runner with a bit of challenge but not overly so. If you want to win as corp the only way is to flatline runner, cause scoring 7 points is next to impossible these days
Hey Andrew! While the folks at Null Signal Games are definitely, on average, printing more consistently playable cards (which I think is great!), I think it's really easy to look back at old FFG Netrunner with rose-tinted glasses.
I just wanted to put this in context, when comparing NSG to the FFG era:
If you look at the current Standard Ban List, this is the distribution of banned cards across Standard legal sets:
- [FFG] Data and Destiny - 4/55 - *7%* banned cards
- [FFG] Flashpoint Cycle - 18/120 - *15%* banned cards
- [FFG] Red Sand Cycle - 11/120 - *9%* banned cards
- [FFG] Kitara Cycle - 8/120 - *7%* banned cards
- [FFG] Reign and Reverie - 2/58 - *3%* banned cards
- [FFG] Magnum Opus - 2/6 - *33%* banned cards
- [NSG] Ashes Cycle - 6/130 - *5%* banned cards
- [NSG] Gateway - 0/77 - *0%* banned cards
- [NSG] Midnight Sun - 0/65 - *0%* banned cards
- [NSG] Parhleion - ?/63 - *?%* banned cards
Now, I think it's obvious we're going to see some additions to the Standard Ban List in the near future (a mixture of NSG and FFG cards). But even if every single card you highlighted ends up banned (which I think is far from necessary), NSG is right on track with FFG, if not better (this is assuming that the goal of balance is to have as few banned cards as possible, which I think is far from the truth).
(I think a more interesting topic would be to compare the percentage of 'playable' cards across each Standard legal set. NSG definitely has a huge edge there.)
NSG puts a lot of effort into balancing and testing their cards. If you're interested, they're often looking for volunteers for their playtesting team. Be the change you want to see!
@@MetropoleGrid Hey Andrei, thank you for taking the time to reply to my rant :) I like your optimistic approach and always trying to look on the bright side. I do enjoy your content quite a bit I must say.
You definitely have a point in looking at good ol' times that might or might not have been and I see what you are trying to convey. I do not think it's actually paint a full picture though. Even though FFG might have a higher ban rate it's also cause the response to changing meta was much quicker and swifter. Does less amount of banned card tell the story of better balance or lack of interaction with game state and less care in the balancing aspect? I can only tell for myself I never felt there were so many unbalanced meta warping cards in rotation as they are at this very moment. Even though there are still great cards produced and fun moments to be had. And even still there are many cards and moments when I scratch my head wondering what the designers have thought...
I fully understand you can't compare a money making machine to a non-profit organisation in terms or man power I do not think it's what is problematic about NSG though.
It's the design direction they take with this game. A lot of "cool" ideas like economy-less cards are breaking fundamentals of the game. Having more designs like Boomerang, Bankhar, Endurance or Botulus invalidates 20-30% of corp cards most of all ice and limits the amount of viable archetypes. In addition this breaks the game's credit economy between Runner and Corp clearly favouring one side. I get it, innovation is the lifeblood of any card games and you have to bring new mechanics and ideas, without them it quickly becomes stale and uninteresting. There has to be balance though not only in the playtesting but experience as well.
Design ideas like current very heavy sabotage meta create a really non-fun environment in which one side does it's cool tricks while other sees it's 60% of cards in the deck land in the bin with nothing to defend yourself with. Never mind the win rate of such encounters the enjoyment of such games (similar to unstoppable boat) is clearly one sided.
I can imagine preparing a cycle of cards in advance cannot be an easy task and a lot of work needs to be sinked in to make a good product but without it... Well you get the meta where 12 out of 16 top world players bring the same card and have the same game plan to play out...
Thank you recommendation of the playtesting group ;) I will look into the volunteering as I love the game but it frustrates the heck out of me when I see certain aspects being pushed to the (breaking) limit.
Rant 2.0 over and out. Looking forward to your new content for Netrunner!
I also do not think that all of the cards I highlighted are meant to be placed on the banned list but in combination with each other and others they warp the game balance (in my opinion) and create unhealthy meta
I'm sorry to ask here:what do the dots in the list near the names mean? I can't figure it out, they do not seem influence point... Ty for help
No need to apologize! Which list exactly has the dots?
For example at min. 5:16 for 'accelerated diagnostic' or 'BOOM!' i can't understand what the dots near the name mean and why there is some space between them
@@lorenzomessina7148 Those are influence pips! To include cards from outside of your deck's faction, you have to spend influence. Each copy of a card costs between 0 to 5 influence (each card has its influence cost marked on the card), and most identities have a fifteen influence budget to spend.
In the example decklist at 5:16, that NBN deck is spending 3 influence on 3 copies of the HB card Accelerated Diagnostics, 6 influence on 2 copies of the Weyland card Boom!, 4 influence on 2 copies of the Weyland card Power Shutdown, and 1 influence on a single copy of the neutral agenda Global Food Initiative (neutral cards rarely cost influence - all factions must spend influence to include neutral cards that cost influence).
Oh thanks!
So basically the pips are the total cost of influence that the player is using...
Gotcha!
What’s the difference between a banned card and a cycled out card?
A banned card is (or was) banned as a result of balance concerns at the time.
Separate to that, to ensure that formats stay both fresh and of a manageable card pool size, formats experience regular 'rotations'. For example in the Standard format, roughly once a year coinciding with the release of a new cycle (a block of 120 new cards), the oldest cycle that is currently legal in the Standard format rotates out and leaves the Standard format (or in other words, cycles out).
As an example, next year when NSG's upcoming 'Dawn' set releases, all of the remaining FFG cards in the Standard card pool are rotating out of the Standard format. This is going to be the largest rotation Standard has ever experienced, and a pretty exciting time.
@@MetropoleGrid time for me to admit I will just never be able to play this game
Hey, you got my last name just about right!
Ayeeee
I respectfully disagree with your Employee Strike take. To me that is a runner card that says "I see you have brought something oppressive to the table, but I came here to play Netrunner". Same thing with Interdiction. That card punishes a corp for trying to be sneaky with their defensive upgrades and does nothing to a rezzed board.
I loved Interdiction, to the point all my friends started pre-rezzing everything :D
Regarding Employee Strike, I agree, but from the Corp's side of the table who is now saying, "I see you have brought something oppressive to the table. I came here to play Netrunner..." :(