2020 Harley-Davidson M8 Oil Pump Updates 'Cause S$#! CHANGED! | Shop Talk Episode 35
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- čas přidán 27. 02. 2020
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"Shane, doesn't he look like he shouldn't be within 100yds of a school?"😂 That had me rollin!
🤣😂
This info is what we need. Big appreciation
Thanks guys....Glad I found your channel...you're funny, very informative and easy to follow. Enjoying how you explain everything in good detail along with the reasons, especially regarding important issues. Very cool...sub'd.
Another great and informative video really enjoy the info you guys provide
Interesting. Good info for all M8 owners! Keep up the good work guys.
really appreciate these comparison videos you guys put out!
Thanks for the support.
Love these comparison and tech videos, keep it up!
Great video when you finally got to the details.
The comedy is great and the info is also spot on. 😂😂😂😂
always top notch ... great stuff , guys !
I have a 2018 road glide ultra. I did as u recommended going with the 2020 HD oil pump. After, my bike had oil sumping problems. Then I installed s&s cam plate and pump. Life is good now
Excellent info thanks for all your efforts... much appreciated
Thanks so much Moonshine your technical info is much appreciated.Will definitely be taking all points mentioned when building my m8
Cruisin' with Cannibal thanks for
watching!
@@MoonshineHarley just subscribed and i encourage our techs to watch your channel also. Learn more here than school no bs ✌
Hey guys this is great, thanks.. I understand that some/most late model 2019s have the upgrade... I can't tell when my motor was built, but the build date on my bike is 5/13/2019... I haven't noticed any issues.. and I'm running a California Stage III... hope you can help. Thanks again!
2019 Road Glide Ultra, 2 weeks ago early Feb, 2020, I went with a S&S cam chest & oil pump and Woods 22X cam, adjustable push rods and new cam bearing. D&D 2 into 1 pipes. Vance and Hines FP3. Started project with 2300 miles on bike. Took me 3 days. 1day tear down, 1day rebuild, 1day pipes and then a week later got bold and went for 16"apes. YIKES, Every trick in the book but did it. 2 days to pull wires through Factory 47 16" bars with new heated grips. 4 hours total so far at highway speeds 65 to 100 mph no issues no squeals or knocks and no leaks. Have not told the wife yet. Maybe next month. Your videos helped choosing which route to go. Runs great, sounds great, feels great. Thank for you for your efforts on videos. Now if it will quit snowing and raining. sigh near St Louis area in Illinois
We are ready for a weather break too!
Of note, the bike is louder, so riding down the highway there is extra rumble to deal with, and full tank of gas goes about 205 instaed of 240 at 70 to 75 mph.
HIGHSPEED DRAG55 if
Your ever in the area we would recommend having us tune it for you. Your mileage can be improved afterwards. Glade you like
It! Nice setup!!!
So I just replaced my stock 2017 oil pump that was working just fine. I was doing a Stage 2 so was advised to do the pump. Mild Stage 2 107 so went with brand new HD pump. The pump had two vanes let go during the dyno tune. Now Im going with what my builder recommended from the get go, a Fueling at $700 over the HD.
Thanks for the informative video. Great video.
May 2020 rode my 19 Electra glide standard up to Moonshine HD from Jax Florida. They put the S&S
Cam chest kit 465G in the bike. This was an Awsome change in bike performance! Harley wants your bike to last 2
Years. I want it to last way past that. My advice and Moonshine will tell you......if u open up that cam chest, get rid of
All that oem trash, not just the oil pump because the cam plate is just as bad as their oil pumps
Great video,Very informative well spoken
Great vid!
You guys are so badass. I am in the Army and currently live in Virginia. I am moving to tx In June. I need to set something up so I can stop by and have you all install a cam!
Great video guys and information, always like how objective and honest you guys are in your videos👍 Best m8 tech videos on you tube 👍👍
Thank you. We try to just put out information. Not bash or put our opinions of manufacturers on the internet.
Aggie Frazao Thanks brother!
Nice job !!
NYC Shouting Tennessee Moonshine Harley out with love!Keep it up.EXCEPTIONAL VIDEO!I gotta pass through there one day.
Thank you.
Levi Evans make sure you find
Mike and Me Jamie when you do.
You're Welcome.Will do!
Great info. Thanks.
I binge watch your videos like my wife binge watches the bachelor . I’m a nerd for this stuff .
same. half time time i dont know what theyre talking about though.. lmao
Awesome video guys. What is the shop time to replace the oil pump in the 2017 fltrx? Thanks
Gentlemen thank you for this very informative video I have a 21 roadglide ready to upgrade one question what is your preference fueling or S&S thanks
Digging that paint job
Thanks men!
Good shit guys, pity our local (Australia) Harley people are not so forth comimg with oil pump info
We are so well versed because we do 5-10 engine builds a week. Most shops do not get that kind of exposure so they aren't aware.
great video ur guys are awesome!!!
Schweet paint job on that RG 🤘
i just got a 2020 street bob , not wanting to much more so stock oil pump will be fine for stage 2 with cam and tune TBR and air filter .be fast enough for me for a while ,
Great video guys, thanks for sharing. i don't know whether to go from my evo to a twin cam or a m8 with all these things with the m8's
RSB Harley M8 all day!!! It makes
Power easily and has less problems than its predecessors by far.
keep the evo
In the process of putting my 124 together right now in my 2017 and noticed my pump has the groove for that seal, called the dealer today to get one. Wasn’t sure if it was really necessary but had heard about the seal fixing the cavitation issue. Glad to see it was a good idea to get the seal.
HDstreetshark it was a good idea!
Probably too early to tell but do you think the 2020’s will suffer from the previous years problems? I own a 2020 Street Glide and am debating between buying the extended service plan or upgrading to fueling or S&S parts. Not concerned with building a monster engine. Only concerned with long term reliability.
I want Moonshine HD to handle all my performance upgrades. 2019 SGS. Stage 1 done already.
Thanks for the explanation. Had my oil pump replaced last month under warranty. Actually didn’t know I had an issue, took bike in for clutch recall, tech called a few days later and asked to keep the bike for another couple of days to replace the oil pump.
I am very happy he caught and corrected the issue.
What issue was the engine having to convince the dealer the oil pump needed to be updated?
Jim Koch ,
I was not having an issue with the bike, but the tech advised the oil pump needed to be replaced and did so under warranty. I did not notice any sumping or leakage, but had read in several articles about the early M8 motors having oil pump issues.
Mine is a 17 that I purchased in March of 18, left over. Warranty expires in two weeks.
@@rickyhawkins7407 I think it's interesting that they would volunteer to open the cam chest and replace the oil pump when it wasn't showing any signs of having issues when the bike was in for a recall. I was just wondering because I upgraded my oil pump when I changed the cam but otherwise would have left it alone.
Jim Koch The tech knew he had one of the first pumps so he did what’s best for his customer. Need more techs like him in the field.
Jamie Lima
So true...wish more techs were like this.
Thank my lucky stars I waited til 11/2020 to buy my RGS!
good info thanks
Are you guys coming across a lot of newer bikes that the run out is out of spec?
I have a '19 RGS with only 2100 miles on it so far and was looking at the S&S pump and plate. I would think it would still be fine at this point but then again....
Great work as always guys. I'm just outside Chicago but would love to have you guys do some work on my ride. The attention to detail is key....and Mike's a bada$$. 🤟
The rotating assembly of the M8 is very sturdy and true and most of the time they are in spec. The bike in the background I took apart this morning right before the video and wasn't worried about it not being in spec. That being said,. We measure every bike every time we get to that point whether it's an M8, a Twin Cam, evo, sportster, what ever.
You guys are so deep in the smallest of details that I’m not sure to let no one do a big build on my bike but you guys unfortunately I live in Miami not Tennessee.
tacmac95 we pick up and ship all over the country! We are in Florida monthly. Please call the shop and ask for Aaron or Jamie when you’re ready 615-274-4170
Thanks you guys I have a question I have a 2020 road glide I did a cam upgrade I would like to put the fuelling Cam played in will my 2020 oil pump work with that I would think so thanks for all your great experience that you’re sharing with us makes such a difference very much appreciated from Don Schlegel in Vancouver Canada
I f#*kin love you guys, wish I would’ve known about you guys along time ago. “Cause shit changes@!!!!
Why didn’t HD fix these bikes as they being sold. I have 19 SGS with 4400 miles 9 months old with bike in pieces. . Needs pistons cylinders pump oil pan and valve seals from dealer under warranty after motor almost ruined from failing pump. Pump did not scavenge oil back to pump. Not happy with HD at this point. Bike was built may 2019 and people should know this issues and new oil pumps should be installed. It will save a lot of $ for everyone in the long run.
Because then they wouldn't be able to sell the screaming eagle oil pump and cam plate
This issue shine's a horrible insight on harley's attitude to their customers, and their perceived responsibly
Harley wouldn’t like seeing the last sentence lol
Ok excellent video for M8 owners. How about some info for folks like me looking to purchase a 2017 ultra limited low. Should I stay away from the early models and save enough $ to purchase a 2020. And if I do purchase a 2017 what can I expect to pay to have it upgraded to the 2020 oil pump.
Just installed the S&S 475C cam, oil pump, oil pump plate, etc...so im good not having installed the oem o-ring behind the pump? Great content subscribed.
We would have installed the o-ring. The o-ring provides extra benefits.
Knowing is half the battle
Yo Joe!
Play Josh it's me kids the TJ my dad's in California and the seahorse to buy at the Forum I have some money at somebody get for that trail tell him I said hi if you're over there, can you call me anytime call me at 9:06 you playing on my phone number 906
I can't, I just can't. At least they didn't make you wait another 3 years to get the M8 close to okay.
i have 2019 rgs with stage2 torque cam do i need to up grade oil pump and are cam plate.TI is all stock hd parts i love sound and power just wish had money to go bigger on bike.thanks for info you all shows us out here.keep rubber side down.
You guys should just have your own brand of bikes and take the HD name off of it! Great shop!
Do you know the earliest build date that HD started using the newer backing plate with the seal??? I have heard that the latest oil pump starting going in the 5/19 and later builds, but did the backing plate with seal go in earlier builds???
Thanks guys!
My 2017 ultra m8 need all your updates and your oil pump cam plate fueling bearing adjustable pushrods and roller bearing holders gasket tuning pleas
Nice VDO, i have 2018 RG and Im looking to upgrade the Oil pump, What is a part Number for M8 2020 Oil pump kit ? Thank you.
Do you check the pressure on the pump before install? My TC3 plate was set to 35psi which was great for stock. The 08 Zippers 117 needed 57psi
Great Video guys!! Good info!! Poor Sasquatch lol 😂
I’ve got the 2018 117 breakout stage 3 never ever has an issue at all with anything!! Done 30,000km so far ridden in 2 degree weather and pissing down with rain and ridden in 52 degree weather...not a single issue
KostaAtlas awesome!!! Ride safe.
Moonshine Harley thanks mate!! Same to you
OK, so what's your measured runout and endplay??
So since runout is so important, what is the life expectancy of the of the Fueling and S&S products vs OEM. Looking at it in another perspective. How long is it before I’m going to have to change the S&S brass bronze bushing or the Fueling parts before they are worn out - or how often should I /we check the runout????
Thanks
Blackfeather
Shit is rad. Keep it comin. I'm not even in the market for this shit and it's still fascinating. Can you do something on the crate 131 and it's competitors?
Maybe I'm confused however you stated that when you upgrade to a larger cam you get more heat. My understanding from all info I have heard is 1st you will ave done a stage 1 before a cam upgrade which the stage 1 is suppose to help run cooler because of it running less lean from factory. Then with a cam upgrade it would be logical to add even more fuel which if more fuel equals cooler running then how can a cam upgrade produce more heat. Also if your crank pinion is not within tolerance for the new cam plate then wouldn't it be out of tolerance from the factory there by chewing up your factory cam plate?Just trying to learn . Thanks.
Anything better than stock.
Could you review the new screaming eagle cam plate for M8?
Thanks for the info. I was looking to get the feuling RACE series for when I went stage 2 on at 114 Fat Boy.
Didnt know about the run out requirement.
Was gonna go with a Woods 222 Cam, Feuling RACE pump and camplate, HP+Lifters, FuelMoto Pushrods.
So if my crank is above 1/5000th I gotta ditch the feuling pump.
What about swapping to Gear driven, does that help increase longevity? Or just helps with timing? Whats the runout limit on gear drive over chain?
If your crank is above .005 of runout you have to go to a different setup or get the runout fixed #timex bearings
Would it be advantageous putting a new cam chest and pump on stock motor I’m not really sure I want more than stock. 117’s will get to the speed limit in a hurry.
You guys Rock
🙏🙏🙏
⚡️👊🏻⚡️
I just updated my chest with OE+ fueling plate, lifters, pump and S&S 510c cams on my 02' 95 build. I was a little taken back that they don't feel the need for a seal between the pump and plate. I get around 12-15 at idle and around 42-45 when cruising. It also hasn't really been warmer than 50 degrees here in Massachusetts and I think I hit oil temps of 200 once this late winter while sitting in traffic but switched to dino 20w 50 VR1 oil since the upgrade and the engine has been quieter than i've ever heard it with 36k. Using my automotive stethoscope, all areas sound nice and squishy as if oil is flowing nicely, fingers crossed. I'll probably get maybe 10k miles if I'm lucky through the summer and fall then open her up and check to see any abnormal wear. Should there be any extra fine materials after my first oil change with the new set up? I probably have around 300 miles on the new plate and extras. I didn't go with the race version only because I don't think I'm pushing much more than 100/100. Great video guys and thanks for the info.
Sully seal is only needed on the M8 designed cam chest.
Good luck getting one from S & S. I’ve been waiting 5 months just to hear something. Horrible customer relations.
fuel moto
What is the part number on the newest HD oil pump? It is proving to be difficult to find the part number online, and with so many revisions, I want to make sure my dealer gets me the RIGHT oil pump.
Have a 2018 slim just ordered a new 2021 oil pump bike only done 7800km.
Was looking at putting in S&S adjustable push rods an lifters..S&S valve cuffs..an a zappers 468cam...or cyclerama 480..which cam would u use??
What are the tolerances for the S&S oil pump set up. How much pinion shaft runout is too much?
3 years ago
And Both specs where marked "in writhing " as 'Fueling'... 11:54 ...
Can you run the oil cooled pump on a twin cooled bike ? Looking to put the 22xe or the 468 in my 17 RGU and debating on the SS oil pump or save some money and get the oe upgrade. Thanks in advance
What about the oil pump for the water cooled Ultra.Its a different part number to the oil cooled pump ??
what is the part number for the new oil pump set up
What are your guys' opinions on breather bypass systems on the intake? Is this something I should leave alone or take care of? It seems strange to me to blow all that shit right into the intake side of my heads.
Thanks for sharing fellas. Love what you do. Keep up the good work.
Roger Fulling We do it on some of
our 150hp builds. We run them to a catch can we hide behind one of the rear bags. It’ll add a maintenance item that needs to be dealt with from time to time (drain the can).
@@MoonshineHarley it seems like that's the way it should be and makes complete sense to have on all these motors. I just don't seem to see it done very often, which seems strange to me because it makes complete sense to do so. I was looking at the DK Customs version of this simple yet genies solution to the problem.
Is the oil pump pressure from 2020 M8 enough to run with the s&s 475c without changing to the s&s oil pump? btw i’m runing the FXLR 107 M8.
What's the part number for the newest harley oil pump?
How does the S&S or Fueling pump compare to the SE upgrade?
So which one is better ? S&S or fueling
My 114 fat boy with a November 2018 motor build date has the rear seal on the pump.
Just installed new S&S pump and plate today along with 475 camshaft lifters,cuffs and Quickee pushrods.
My new pump also had the recess to accept the crankshaft seal o-ring
Philip Roberts Perfect! Do you have a good tuner close to you?
@@MoonshineHarley no Dyno close to me,I flashed a base map on my FP-3 and will run a auto tune at some point.
Im playing with the idea jumping ship to a DynoJet power vision,but im going wait till I have run a few tanks of fuel on auto tune with the FP-3.
I haven't ridden it yet as I only did the work on it yesterday and the weather isn't great here in the UK.
Philip Roberts the fp3 is a terrible tuner with very limited capabilities. The power vision is a great interface and can adjust all parameters. Also I’d recommend getting target tune to really have the bike dialed in
Don't believe everything you hear. Fp3 has been great for me and service has been top notch.
@@cag31011 Exactly. My shop that builds motors all the time said FP3 is fine for a cam swap. VH uploaded me a map for it and I will autotune that one for about 500 miles. Am I leaving some HP and TQ on the table? Probably, but doesn't bother me.
What if the pinion shaft runout is more than the what the spec is what needs to be done?
What is the part # for the 2020 oil pump, cam chest? My runout is to much for S&S or Feuling
How about the New SE M8 Cam Plate and Pump
Nice beard!👍🏻 good video
Richard Thanks Brother!
So in short WHATS the best s&s or fueling
Thanks Great video! How about the H-D SE pump are they need good?? #TwinCam #2016 #FLSS
Yes they are good upgrades for the TC.
did you use chain drive once run out was 4000th? great videos, ty
At .040” we would be looking rebuilding the flywheel. We would use a chain drive on anything more than .004”. All of our larger Race setups also use chain driven cams.
@@MoonshineHarley thank you for the reply.. been learning a lot more on this topic esp from some of your videos.
Great information, thanks. I have a 2017 RGS. For a Stage II with cam, would the new 2020 oil pump be sufficient? Also, can I use my stock cam plate or is there a 2020 cam plate I need to buy? Appreciate the help.
Know these are old, just replying for reference. Yes, stock 2020 pump is fine for Stage2 or Stage3 even Stage4. Of course if you go bigger 128 etc, sure, up the pump because you need more oil. Your cam plate is fine they put a seal and baffle inside to help with the oil sumping. KB
Is newer Harley engines with increased ci getting harder to increase power? 114 can get to 131 ci, what about the new 117? Is it supposed to be cheaper for owners to upgrade? Or?
Soo I have a 2018 road king with a stage one kit. You guys are making it sound like there is something wrong with my engine. Is there ? I'm happy with the way it runs and pulls through the gears. Will something happen to my engine? Because its doesn't have these up grades? Help me out here guys. Is there something wrong with the harley design? WOW
Kinda explains why the Harley dyi and independent shops like crying and hating on Harley’s products. Looks like Harley’s on-point when it comes to finding out what’s wrong and how to fix it. It also shows how some are trying to force power through a part not designed to handle it as in this case. A stage upgrade with standard stock parts.
They cry because they don’t know how to leave the damn bike alone. I have a 2017 Street Glide Special , in Hard Candy HotRod Red Flake. Recall for the , secondary clutch actuator . Mine was fine, but it was changed anyway. Those who bitch all the time are either not a Harley owner or they messed the bike up.
@@tax905972 Umm I had a softail that needed an engine rebuild due to Harley's shitty compensator shearing metal into the case. They knew for years it was bad, didn't address it until 2012, my bike was an 09. I am doing the SS kit because I know that stock pump is garbage, Just like they had to vent my primary for oil migration.
@@gotchu99 shit happens, it’s a Machine. Normally a broken compensating means a new compensator maybe a chain maybe a stater not a new motor so what else did you do to it?
@@gotchu99 did you make a track bike without changing the compensator?
@@gotchu99 I had a 2010 road king, with the 96ci twin cam motor. Stater went, leak at the transmission cause they put the hottest part of the exhaust next to it, so the gasket failed. All repaired under warranty no reoccurrence. Shit happens. If you think other brands don’t have issues your fooling yourself. I had a Suzuki Boulevard m50, when you ride it for a long time the transmission begins to slip. So much for Japanese Quality and reliability. As for Indian recalls they would actually start on their own while sitting in your garage,putting your family members at risk of being killed if you have a attached garage. They all have issues.
Helpful info on Identifying the pump models and the warning not to turn up the pump pressure but Only 4 OEM revisions? I dont think you guys were quite prepared for this talk.. On the cam plates I feel someone needs to point out a few things here.. That OEM cam plate that Nameless mentioned, is not stamped aluminum, but cast Al, and I don't think the S&S is 7071 Aluminum (but is it's the only one with a brass bearing) , however the Fueling Race series is.. Magnets will not will not collect all metal..but ferrious metals only. Though Jamie said "same as the others" when talking of the screen in the S&S, I dont think the Fueling or OEM oil pumps have Screens..Also as Jamie mentioned, the .005 crank runout tolerance and measurement is not on the "very end" of the crank, but measured where the bearing will ride.
I have a 21 ultra bout to get a cam swap installed should s high pressure pump be installed
How do the new Screaming Eagle pumps stack up in comparison?
There isn't a SE Pump for the M8's yet. They are still trying to make the stock pump work and get it to dealers haha. I run the Feuling Race Pump, has the best Scavenge/Return ratio.
Hi can you tell me the part number on the newest Harley oil pump for oil cooled M8 harley
Wondering if anyone has added elec. oil pump for cold start up?
I have a 2022 Street glide special putting a S&S 465 cam with a D&D exhaust and keeping the stock oil pump. I believe I am okay doing this what's you all opinion with that?
Have you guys found a lot of M8 crank shafts that were over 5 thousands run out ? I am running the fueling pump and never asked if the builder checked the run out. I am sure he did.
Freedom Rider not a lot but we do get them from time to time.
So what if you buy the S&S and your pinion shaft is over .005? Whats the fix?