Tank Ramming in WW2 - Ramming Speed feat.
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2020
- Tank vs. Tank ramming is portrayed in movies and computer games. Yet, if one looks at German and US WW2 regulations it seems be highly discouraged at least at first. The number of incidents seems also rather limited. In this video we look at regulations, veteran interviews, memoirs, photos and other sources that range from pre-war to 1945 and cover the Eastern and also Western front to get a better understanding of tank vs. tank ramming in World War 2.
Disclaimer: I was invited by Militärhistorische Museum der Bundeswehr Dresden in 2019. www.mhmbw.de/
Big thank you here for Dr. Roman Töppel for bringing up this topic and providing me with access to his notes and many sources on the matter. Thank you to Jens Wehner, Chieftain and Peter Samsonov for further input and support. Special thanks to Andrew for reviewing the script.
Cover design by vonKickass.
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» TIMESTAMPS «
00:12 - Working with German Veterans: • Working with Wehrmacht...
00:29 - Underground Tank Depot: • Underground Panzer Dep...
00:38 - Tank Ramming - Tankers Commentary: • Tank Ramming - the Tan...
02:17 - Soviet Tank Repair: • Soviet Tank Repair in WW2
02:53 - Stug School: • Sturmgeschütz School -...
04:13 - Chieftain’s Channel: / thechieftainwot
10:30 - Kursk Defensive Tactics: • Soviet Defensive Tacti...
11:56 - German Halftrack SdKfz 251: • The German Halftrack -...
12:44 - Tank Archives’ Channel: / earlesspierre
22:24 - Who lied more - Officers vs. Soldiers: • Who lied more? Soldier...
» SOURCES «
Jentz, Thomas L.: Panzertruppen 1 - The Complete Guide to the Creation & Combat Employment of Germany’s Tank Force - 1933-1942. Schiffer Military History: Atglen, USA, 1996.
Ritgen, Helmut: 6th Panzer Division Operations. In: Glantz, David (Ed.): The Initial Period of War on the Eastern Front. Frank Cass: Portland, Oregon, USA, 1993, p. 108-120.
Kauffmann, Kurt: Panzerkampfwagenbuch, 2. Verbesserte und erweitere Auflage, 1940, reprint 2014.
FM 17-30: Tank Platoon, War Department: October 1942.
FM 17-33: Tank Battalion, War Department: December 1944.
FM 17-10: Armored Force Field Manual. Tactics and Technique. War Department: March 1944.
Glantz, David M.: Colossus Reborn. The Red Army at War, 1941-1943. University Kansas Press: Kansas, US, 2005.
Lochmann, Franz-Wilhelm; Rosen, Richard Freiherr von; Rubbel, Alfred: The Combat History of German Tiger Tank Battalion 503 in World War II. Stackpole Books: Mechanicsburg, PA, USA, 2008 (2000).
Wijers, Hans: “…als Panzerfahrer 7000 Kilometer im Sturmgeschütz…“. Kriegserlebnisse von Uffz. Heinrich Engel, Ritterkreuzträger in der Sturmgeschütz Brigade 660 und 259, Brummen: 1997.
Babadshanjan, A. Ch.: Hauptstoßkraft. Militärverlag der Deutschen Demokratischen Republik: Berlin, DDR, 1985.
BArch, RS 2-2/25: Generalkommando II. SS-Panzerkorps, KTB Nr. 6 der Abt. Qu. vom 01.06.1943-02.08.1943 mit Anlagen.
TsAMO: F. 500, Op. 12480, D. 137: Sturmgeschütz-Schule Lehrstab: Merkblatt - Die Geschützbedienung, Burg b. M., Oktober 1943.
Schneider, Wolfgang: Tiger im Kampf. Die Einsätze in der Normandie. Schneider Armour Research: Uelzen, 2004.
Samsonov, Peter: Sherman Rammer. Tank Archives, May, 2020. Accessed: 16th May 2020.
www.tankarchives.ca/2020/05/s...
memorialmuseums.net/eng/denkm...
www.unithistories.com/officer...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Go...)
#Tank #Ramming #WW2
ERRORS:
On the Sherman ramming King Tiger incident, It was recently brought to my attention that there is a lot more research out there. I was not too happy with the sources at the time, as you might have noticed I noted several issues and points that don't add up. Based on the additional material, it seems my analysis has some serious errors in it. For a more detailed look into this topic, check out this series of threads: forum.axishistory.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=144696&sid=114d02188117a49438eed023b34a2121
TIMESTAMPS:
00:12 - Working with German Veterans: czcams.com/video/bzfKgfTOCf8/video.html
00:29 - Underground Tank Depot: czcams.com/video/ae6c0zJLLyY/video.html
00:38 - Tank Ramming - Tankers Commentary: czcams.com/video/dNLfDPGVmHU/video.html
02:17 - Soviet Tank Repair: czcams.com/video/NrPlzexGnS0/video.html
02:53 - Stug School: czcams.com/video/8w47yYXLFGM/video.html
04:13 - Chieftain’s Channel: czcams.com/users/TheChieftainWoT
10:30 - Kursk Defensive Tactics: czcams.com/video/IxGKhGLUpNI/video.html
11:56 - German Halftrack SdKfz 251: czcams.com/video/60oHeCZHtvI/video.html
12:44 - Tank Archives’ Channel: czcams.com/users/tankarchives
22:24 - Who lied more - Officers vs. Soldiers: czcams.com/video/3pQ4Vx0Yw9k/video.html
02:49 :
"1943 chÄnge of Mind?"
Reading a Ä in english is..
a little bit surprising. Only a little bit
I am somewhat disapointed that you didn't get us the pictures in question for the Ramming incidents. Having the pictures so i can make my own judgements would have greatly increased the value of this video.
@@Rotsteinblock could be copyright issues?
damn dude, you just will not take no for an answer.......tanks are not to ram.
can you do a vid on the air defense of the Reich/Kammhuber line?
Reminds me about how swordsmen were taught how to properly throw their swords. They were told that throwing their sword was absolutely stupid, and that they should absolutely never do it, but in the event that they did, they should at least know how. In a similar manner, i think that the guide of how to ram with the STuG is included just so that in the event the tank is used as a ram, even though the crew knows it should not be, it is at least done properly and effectively.
@ Even that was only meant as a distraction. And now your ability to use your sword is severely impaired and you must keep the tip up.
@@werewolfnar Ah, it's a meme. An old swordsmanship book included this instruction.
@@werewolfnarWell when are forced to throw your pommel, you are probably at your last legs. It is now the one last dash to sink your blade into your trice-hated opponent's stinking visors.
Sword fighting treatises say that throwing the sword is a proper move and not stupid at all. It's a very valid move if you have little chance of beating the opponent, and are planning to run away. Throwing the sword is very likely to severely hurt or even kill the opponent if it hits, but if it misses you have no choice but to run. It is a last resort and should not be attempted if you have any other options, but it's definitely not stupid.
I don't know about you, but my first instinct is to fix bayonet and throw the rifle like a javelin.
Military Elementary school visualized: ”And you know what that means, kinder! Open your pre-war german manuals, page...”
"Heroism failed from a lack of lethal materials"
Absolute poetry.
pretty sure you mean heroism HAILED, not failed
Yeah. I'm happy this guy survived the war to tell his story.
(I assume he did, given the time it happened).
I love how they didn’t even try hand to hand combat, at the realization of lacking firearms they just dove for cover
@@looinrims You want to have a fist fight while artillery is crashing down all around you?
@@zchen27 I mean I get where you’re coming from but one of them could’ve tackled the other into that ditch and went into some ground n pound, but Monday morning quarterbacking is not helpful
Through the king tiger incident I was wondering "why would he lie?" Then I saw the detail that he went on to be a politician; that clears things up.
Actually I can believe his account, not to say it's accurate in every detail, but seeing your 75 mm round bounce and the King Tiger's 88 mm traversing was probably a significant emotional event. So, driver ram! Both crews then bailing out also rings true to me.
@@gwtpictgwtpict4214 I could honestly see the driver just being like "oh shit" and ramming it out of instinct rather than being commanded to do so. After all you can't aim that long gun down if you're under it with your tank. Politician just doing what all politicians do. Taking credit for someone else that actually did it.
@@gwtpictgwtpict4214 I think the Tiger backed up into the Sherman. I think there the German account is probably correct.
The rest of the story, with continuing alone, but then having the Firefly from your platoon around when you do need him, also sounds like he making things up.
I don't give a lot of credibility to the Sherman commander, he made up the most heroic version that would have fit the result of the two tanks stuck together.
Exactly - that sounds like a tale Senator Richard Blumenthal would tell about his service as a tank commander in Da Nang.
@@jameshobbs225 hmmm for me sounds like lies. A sherman running forward on a battlefield which was getting shelled sounds dubious, also is not like that king tiger was the only thing around, most likely were more tanks and cannons like the german guy said. The only part it confused was the pak firing the sherman or making friendly fire thing. But yeah I think the it was more of an accident and the sherman took the credit as heroism
"Except Bethesda" lol, shots fired.
Or targets rammed!
Tankers say: 'Target. Cease fire.' This comes from the gunnery commands the word 'target' tells the gunner where the round hit and the second part is what you wanted him to do next.
I'm glad I wasn't drinking when I heard that.
torpedo los !! xD
Lol I was thinking the same thing
"Koenigtiger Commander was a noob", after consideration WoT is quite historically accurate.
Hey, Cerbi!
bububut...i'm not a noob...i just have really bad luck...
ah fuck my commander didnt upgrade spotting skill
@@cerebli laughed harder than i should have
This one time i was rammed by a koenigstiger in wot and i was in a e100. He did 280 dmg and got ammo racked by an fv4005
"Drive me closer! I want to hit them with my sword!"
Beat me to it.
@my name is my name No, Warhammer 40K.
heretics are too filthy to waste the emperors divine ammunition
I would imagine tank ramming is a common strategy among the servants of the Emperor. Especially since they oftentimes have more men than they have weapons. They've probably knowingly fielded divisions of tanks without ammo with instructions to run stuff over and absorb enemy fire and distract from the tanks that actually had ammo.
Regulations: "Don't ram your tank into other tanks"
Some Irish Sherman tank commander:"Hee hee, tank go vroom"
Ewww Marxist trash.
Firefly's were precious in the ETO. The German's targeted them specifically over other tanks (75mm Shermans, Cromwells, and Churchills mostly.) I suspect that the Firefly crew were drilled that their most important duty is to bring that Firefly back in one piece, to fight again the next day. Ramming with a Firefly? Probably court marshallable.
@@danielbertrand6675 Those marxists killed your nazi friends real good.
Henry Wood I wouldn’t call Peasants ‘Marxists’ but you do you
And just a reminder those Marxist’s killed those Nazis with capitalist bullets tanks and fuel transported on capitalist trucks which also carried the capitalist food that fed them and their home front that stopped the total collapse of the Soviet economy and what not
Whoops went a little far there, history lessons shouldn’t be given in comment sections
@@looinrims Here we go again...
Army Regulation: "...and remember to push the Big Red Button to go faster!"
Anime girl: Alright we can Use the turbo, but we have only 20 seconds before the engine explodes
Paint it red to make it go at least three times faster in the first place.
remove the speed governor
@@jimmyseaver3647 *WWWWWWWWWWWWAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHH*
@@solidsnake8330 The only one who got it!😁
Just silly 'oomiez in Here! 😁
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
When I was at the Canadian Armoured School we did some training on the Virtual Battle Space (literally just ARMA...) and a shot from a T-90 at close range penetrated the turret of the Leopard 2, which killed my turret crew (only a commander since it's a game). I sat back and said "Well there's nothing I can do now" to which the instructor told me to "RAM THE FUCKER! YOU'VE GOT A GOOD 30 TONS ON HIM!" Which makes sense since what else can I do when I'm waiting for its next penetrating shot to kill me if it were a real life scenario. I think it's more of just something that is there to remind people that they do have options even when it seems they don't.
Wasn't ARMA literally just a military simulator sold to civilians like, as it was
Omg thats awesome
@@tatotaytoman5934 The other way around. They made MilSim software for the US (and others I think) to finance their game projects. So Arma is the "civilian" version but there are more serious versions that integrate certain militaries infrastructure and communication.
📛 I use a completely different tactic when faced with superior tanks that my main gun couldn't penetrate. Here's the basics:
👉 First I'd stick a white surrender flag out the top of the turret and wave it around vigorously.
👉 I climb out and walk a bit closer to the enemy tank with my hands up.
👉 Next, I yell loudly at the enemy tank crew, calling them ALL p*ssies(cowards), and I'd brag that I could kick ALL their asses by myself! This naturally angers the enemy tankers, causing them to climb out of their tank and start running towards me to fight!
👉 I quickly jump back into my tank, and spray them all with coaxial machine gun fire, killing them.
👉 Then, I simply drive forward to the next enemy tank, rinse & repeat, til I've managed to kill the entire battalion, and captured all their tanks intact(which I'd later sell at a discount to a 3rd world military). 😉👍
Report!
Main power is of line, we've lost shields our weapons are gone!
Canadian Tanker: THEN PERHAPS TODAY IS A GOOD DAY TO DIE! PREPARE FOR RAMMIMG SPEED!
"Except Bethesda games."
Oof. Too soon, too soon...
never too soon for Bethesda never forget or forgive
Me playing Fallout 3...
*Freezes
Bethesda games - confirmed to be less reliable than a WW2 tank - LMAO
I'd say shots fired, but Bethesda has yet to program the recognition of being attacked and are just glad their name was mentioned anywhere. . . . .Now pay 5,000 atoms to keep using their name for 2 more comments.
The 76 expansion has already mended a lot of the hostility online, and most of their previous games have been pretty stable when not having 200 mods shoved in. Before 76 New Vegas remains the most unstable, and wasn't made by them. And people remembering would do nothing: people still remember Rome 2 despite it being fixed, free mechanics additions and being a top seller for years now. Until about a year or two ago with Empire Definitive Edition, Empire Total War was almost equally unplayable and still hard to launch as it was on release. No one ever cared because no one bought it: audience reception isn't reality
When you think of how many tanks have been immobilized by getting stuck in some mud, or blowing a transmission, it should be obvious that tanks should not be used to crash into or over anything made of armor plate, not even a tankette. That's why the Army issued you a cannon and APC shells.
26 years on and around tanks here. The idea of ramming is completely a 'WTF?' issue to me. Tanks are remarkably easy to break. And generally if your tank breaks or gets stuck - you have to fix it or get unstuck yourself. Did not take long before 'preventative maintenance' became a religion for me. Much better to spot and correct a problem in the motor pool than to do it in the field, at night, and in the rain.
Likewise with getting your tank stuck. If you cannot get your tank unstuck yourself - the traditional payment to the crew of the tank recovery vehicle was a case of beer. Same with throwing a track - the crew is expected to put it back on themselves.
That tank was my office, my transportation, my home, my sleeping area, my weapon, the place where I ate my meals etc. So I was highly motivated to take good care of it.
Good point. It should be obvious that ramming is not ideal and probably outright counter-productive. Still, it can be tempting when you consider you can and do ram a lot of stuff in a tank in combat. Also in those training manuals are long descriptions of the kinds of trees, rocks, and buildings you can plow through if necessary, and I can see the occasional tank commander thinking why not add that small tank over there to the list? No small wonder all the manuals put a lot of effort put into warning the crews not to ram, because they are fighting the most deadly of thoughts for a soldier to have; "why not?"
I have no experience in real tanks, but more than once I have positioned a WoT tank in a perfect textbook hull-down position behind a ridge, only to have an enemy player hit me at full speed, blow me up, and then keep moving along. Actually, the other tank would mobility kill itself that way, either by mechanical damage, fire, or physically injuring the crew.
Just think of what happens when two locomotives hit each other head-on and you'll see what is going to happen with two tanks.
@@HSMiyamoto the only difference is that locomotive has a ram and engine covering his wheels, lmao
Does anyone have any photos of dedicated rams fitted to the front of tanks? Nope. There is no way that ramming enemy armor with your tank was acceptable. (Although there is a photo of a Panther fitted with a wedge to push rubble out of its way to clear city streets.)
I heard that a lot of the Russian ramming-claims were fabricated due to their early T-34s with tractor like steering and engines. There you had to actively lock in the gas to drive and disengage it to stop. When the driver got killed he had no chance of disengaging the gas pedal and therefore just drove on without control. Maybe infantry watching this then saw it as a last heroic act of a shot tank while the crew was actually already dead inside.
no. it was intentional and considered a viable tactic. Look for russian tank commanders manuals)
Having grown up in a certain communist country just next to the USSR i wont be surprised if the stories are 100% made up for propaganda purposes
Not sure how you’d conclude that it would be fabricated if the witnesses concluded that it was intentional by the tank crew, in fairness if I’m going down in a flaming tank then why not slam the gas into the enemy infantry, panic is powerful
@@looinrims Contrary to what you might think usually they were thinking of how not to die.. They weren't living combat robots with a soviet flag for a brain, they were human beings just like us. I don't think many of them would intentionally die just to run into something and cause minimal damage because their tank was on fire.
@@rrai1999 “comrade shalanindan died in his burning tank in the spot his unit was ordered to hold”
Uh huh, again, if the witnesses concluded it, I don’t know who was able to ACKTUALLY everyone with that, it’s just a theory
When Paradox named the German Doctrine "Spearhead Doctrine" it actually meant barrel ramming
Also known as _Schwanzpunkt,_ a tactical doctrine developed by Freikorps in Weimar era bordellos.
I feel like the position of the Konigstiger's barrel at about 10-11 o'clock is close enough to be consistent with the gunner's recollection he was facing 12 o'clock - the key point is that he was generally facing "forwards" with respect to the hull, and certainly not towards the Sherman to the rear as the British commander recalls.
good point!
I'd guess in the heat of a battle against an enemy tank, which you know can easily blow through you, seeing the enemy as much as notice you might well feel like "just before it got me".
I mean, "just before" is rather ambiguous measure of time already, especially when your life-expectancy is about to drop below a few seconds.
Also, with regards to where the fire was coming from and where the Tiger barrel was pointing, it sounds like it was a very confused engagement with troops and vehicles from both sides mixed together so could be correct.
Also is it implied when the gunner declared he was at 12 o clock in his statement in relation to the ramming/the 75mm shot from the British commander? It seemed that the commander believed or made it sound like the Tiger 2 reacted to the failed 75mm shot and began traversing
Reminds me a lot about Company of Heroes 2...
Prior to the nerf, the T-34 tank ram was one of the most terrifying things I have encountered in RTS games. It's like dealing with the NOD suicide bombers.
"We blew another one up, but they keep making more!"
RAMMING SPEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED
NOD had suicide bombers ?
Thought only GLA had them
@@POTATOEH81 Yup, "Fanatics" here is their unit quotes if you are interested: czcams.com/video/DTFN8zGJO4Q/video.html
Don't mention that fucking game anywhere I can see it!
Wehrmacht "Never ram your tank, only shoot."
U.S. Army: "Do not ram, it destroys your tank."
Red Army: "CYKA BLYAT RUSH B!!!"
UKF: "Do not touch my steel teapot."
We stand at the gates of Berlin.
With 6000 tanks in our ranks.
USE THEM AS BATTERING RAMS.
Well yeah shite Soviet tanks especially in the start of the war weren’t always combat capable
This sums up the philosophy of Russia quite succinctly.
The thing was, a lot of T-34s and KV-1s had very little armour piercing ammunition at the start of Barbarossa. The factories had yet to fully transition to the newer 76mm, and most still produced only 45mm or smaller.
That's why they decided ramming was better than nothing.
This was both historically educating and a burn in the direction of Bethesda. Google should invent a double like feature and enable it just for this vid.
lol that Bethesda reference.
As usual great content!
Rim shot
8:23 BREAKING NEWS!!!
Pronunciation maniac strikes again! This time the entire population of a small Lithuanian village is found butchered!
UPD: two Russian historians managed to somehow survive the vicious attack
UPD: another butchered Soviet tanker found near Kursk
😳😱
If we troll him enought would he start using google translator to spell the words?
I'll try anyway. Shhhhhtalingrad
@@herrdrizzt9547 hey, that's not trolling! He has a reputation to uphold
His content is really good, but his pronunciation of even the regular English leaves a lot to be desired.
It's not as bad as some others, who are so bad I can't stand listening to them.
I never understand how people struggle so much.
I speak quite a few languages, and you just have to listen to yourself and native speakers. I've had natives think I was a native.
@@rogerwilco2 You must have a very good musical ear.
I speak 5 languages almost fluently, and another 3 at intermediate level. As I'm from Central Europe I could pass as a native speaker in Germany, Italy, Serbia, Romania and Spain, after a few weeks of living and daily speaking with natives. I can switch German dialects to Austrian, Swiss, Swabian and Bavarian in a matter of days. My French is decent too, but English is hard to get right for me. The "r" never comes out right, I have the same problem with Northern German dialects.
With training I could probably do a Scottish or Irish accent :)
8:40 "The super heavy soviet kv tank" and later germans would call a panther a medium tank
They didn´t, and there´s a video about it on this channel.
At this time of the war, the Pz III (~20t) was a medium tank and the Char B1 (~30t) a heavy tank. The KV-2 was a 57t tank
@@Martin4810 pretty sure it's 52 and lightest kv variant was 43
I like how the image for "Heretics!" is a chainsword from Warhammer
9:05 the inquisition approves this message
Spanish inquisition?
@@troo_6656 imperial inquisition from WH40K
I certainly didn't expect either of them.
@@pRahvi0 No one expects the Spanish Inquisition!
*Doesn't have access to weapons*
SovietWomble in a tank: RAMMING SPEED
*Indiana Jones theme song*
It always work
He did that twice in his videos, lol. In Arma and in PUBG.
Also would’ve accepted Thunderchild by Jeff Wayne.
Yeah. That’s what happened. You recreated it, except more shitty.
9:05 THE URGE TO PURGE BEGINS TO SURGE
exterminatus confirmed! (bashes head repeatedly on the button)
You and your use of sources is fantastic! Your research is superior than almost everything I have encountered!
Geiles bild für den "Anschluss" 😂😂
Like
ganz vergessen, aber ja, da musste ich etwas überlegen.
This makes me think of the War Thunder trailer with the Panther, which lost its turret and rams a half-track SPAA while having its ammunition cooking off...
And of course Girls und Panzer with its hilariously unrealistic tank driving...
"ramming" with shaped charges on sticks might work, much like US civil war "torpedo's"
Tell that to the Japanese lunge miners, which apparently the armored forces found so ineffective against them they made no army regulations on how to counter them
Historical accuracy: no!! you can’t just ram things with no damage in your tank!
Me: HE HE ! E50 goes donk
Yep... that’s another dipshit meme.
RAMMING SPEED!
*Internal Soviet Womble intensifies*
I'm a Brazilian criminal lawyer, and i absolutely LOVE how your analysis always start with the REGULATIONS
OMINIA POTESTAS A LEGE
I never really even contemplated or conceived the notion of someone making a video/lesson specifically about the phenomenon of kamikaze tanks, let alone envisioned or expected someone to be able to make a 24-minute video about it. 24 minutes about WW2-era tank-ramming. The length of the video on such an obscure subject just intrigues me so much and compels me to watch it.
Me in M22 Locust Charging a Maus: "Witness me to the gate of Valhalla"
That Chainsword and "HERETICS!" make my inner Space Marine very happy, in addition to the great video (as always)
Me : Laughs in Jagdpanzer E100
AKA a doomcannon in a moving casemate
And yet another meme.
SO much detail, these videos are crammed full of info.
great video as always!
Hi there! Im the guy your Bethesda joke was for! I enjoyed it!
Interesting video!
Really nice to finally hear more about that Tiger II ramming in Normandy! Came across that story years ago without further details.
I agree on your assessment of the accounts. The British reports has a distinct touch of self-reported heroism by an complete greenhorn while the German account reports just an chaotic mess created by a greenhorn. While the first is not impossible, the second has a higher propability. ;)
Excellent work
War Thunder Army Regulation: “When in close range and reloading, ram the enemy tank...”
Or when your breach is out… or when your turret rotates to slow… or to bully that guy who thought they should stay dispite having lost his barrel
i got my last year Med finals now... but the title of the video, i simply couldnt help it.
great job as always man!!
I love how you put the Bethesda icon up too and perfect reference.
Finally, I was just wondering why there was no video about this yesterday.
The accounts from both sides make sense to me.
Sherman commander had pushed up too far and didn't realize he was caught between a Pak and a Tiger. He never mentions it, so he likely wasn't aware of it. The Tiger had seen him and orders a full reverse to try and retreat. The Sherman commander decides that the German may be trying to maneuver to get the cannon on him and orders the ram.
Gunner is still firing on distant British positions and to their left in the German line, a Pak gunner notes a Sherman moving to intercept a friendly tank. Puts a round on target for the Tiger and immobilizes it accidentally, leaving it exposed as the Sherman tank pushes up and rams. Allied fire strikes the German tank as it's immobilized and ignites the ammunition, but this doesn't immediately wipe the tank as can be seen by the crew bailing.
So, Sherman and German crews are bailing, the Pak Gunner opens fire again and smacks the Sherman in the side, but seeing the crews getting out, loses interest and moves to a different target or artillery actually manages to neutralize the position before any more fire can be put out. We get the little bit about the Sherman and German crews getting friendly in the trenches and not trying to die while American forces push up and as the IDF dies down, the Commander hops back in, gives his location and asks for AT fires on the immobile tank. It's likely that shortly thereafter, he sees the German tank go up in flame from the ongoing ammo fire going critical or an actual 17 pounder round being used and chalks it up to a mission success.
It really feels more like everyone completely misread the intentions of the other, which makes perfect sense to me given that in combat you're going to not assume you're enemy is making a mistake unless they're obviously unaware of your position.
2:00 Oh Snap! lol Bethesda got ripped.
Thank you, great info
I love that comment after the sherman rams the Tiger the commander says "I just went back and got a 75mm Sherman to finish the job". I had this image of him getting back to depot and the guy uses a vending machine pretty much to order his next tank and it roles of the nearest warehouse.
I take it to mean he ran off without his crew and happened upon the 75mm Sherman which had by that point freed itself and in the retelling made it seem like it was by design rather than dumb luck.
He found a Firefly where the commander had just been killed and removed the body to take over the tank.
Just curious, but seeing as how no one was really al that concerned with crew comfort and physical safety when the tanks were operating while performing 'properly' what would the effect to unprotected, untethered humans in a metal box full of all sorts of sharp corners and pointy things? As I'm old enough to remember pre-1970s automobiles and trucks and having experienced what can happen in those, I would be amazed if the results of the ramming of two tanks didn't result in pretty serious damage to the crews.
From watching the Chieftan's others videos of the inside of tanks, I would think that especially the drivers would be pretty well, damaged. I remember being an EMT in the mid-70 and came across a truck vs truck accident where two 1950s vintage trucks had a head-on collision. One driver was trapped in the cab of the truck, with the most memorable injury a rather unusual 'traumatic compound ankle dislocation'' as the doctor described it, where the ankle dislocated and passed through the skin. Looking at various tank driver's positions and the placement of the pedals, I sometimes get a queasy feeling knowing what is possible. And we'll not even talk about the gunners, loaders, co-drivers/machine gunners and commanders positions. While this was war and soldiers get injured and killed all the time, a collision could certainly impose a unique set of potential injuries.
And think about all the main gun rounds, MG ammo boxes and other stuff stowed inside that could end up flying around during a ram of significant speed. Carnage.
@@adamtennant4936 Good point. Although the tanks were usually equipped with fixtures to secure most of that described, one would think just operating the tank would keep considerable amounts of potential projectiles free for 'carnage.'
Yes Adam . My neighbors had a small Chevy Chevette that they flipped over on the Thruway . There was a Toolbox in the back of the Car that caused some Carnage when it bounced around . Both Adults walked away and their young Children were not in the Car on that Trip . She was crying when she told about the Toolbox bouncing around because it would have nailed the Kids had they been riding in the back seat that day . Most of the Things in a Tank might be stowed slightly better because a Tank Lurches around a lot .
Perfect timing.
I just got done watching Girls under Panzer Der Film.
GuP got me interested in tanks hehe
As someone going on to hopefully study the tanks at uni, that show is so impassable. But damn it's too much fun to watch.
"His commander was a newb" I love your prose !
*ramming will damage your tank
Me in wot: panthers go weeeeeeee
Ramming another tank usually result in a significant emotional event.
I just love the way you say vehicle. Weecicle
I recall reading about the early war exploits of Soviet tankers in outdated BT-7 and other pre-war tanks. They were told that if they came back with their tank after being instructed to kill the enemy tanks, that they would be court-martialled for failing to carry out their orders. As a consequence, the tank crews soon realized that the only way they could return from the engagement was if they rammed an enemy tank, destroying their own tank in the process. That way they could say that they followed their orders, they incapacitated the enemy tank and were forced to return when their small arms ammunition was expended.
They also had good reason to destroy their own vehicle. If they returned with it intact or even slightly damaged, it would be repaired and sent out again with another crew, whilst they were sent to the penal battalions. These tanks were usually easy fodder for the German Mark 3 and 4. Even the Pz 38 (t) had no problem wiping them out. So it made sense to destroy the enemy vehicle by an intentional ram, if they were unable to penetrate the German armor and then be handed a T-34 when they returned, giving them a better chance of surviving.
The ultimate rammer: Maus going 80 kilometers an hour
I could imagine a someone trying a ram if they had no ammo or the tank was damaged as a last ditched attept to try and take out one more tank.
Personally for me if a ram happened then i feel it was the fact the crew had either lost control or were out of action, or as a last desprate act as i stated above. I base this on the fact that i have seen no first hand account of a tank crew actually ramming which to me suggests that the crew were dead when the ram happeend or they died in the ram or soon after the ram.
The thing is that ever since (maybe) 1915, a tank's crew are more valuable than the tank itself. (Yes, even to the Soviets). If your tank is so low on ammo/damaged that it's unable to fight properly, and there is still an enemy tank somewhere nearby, every military out there would *much* rather that you bail out of your tank (if retreating with your tank is impossible), and preserve as many crewmen as possible.
How deep in the line are you though to feel the need to do that rather than requisition a resupply (preferably before you get below 20% ammo in general) or at the very least disengage from the enemy/front line
“Maybe except for Bethesda games”
Truer words have never been said
you had my curiosity now you have my attention
I am convinced bethesda games aren't software but somehow quantum ware and that is why they are so unstable/unreliable
Last time I was this early germany still had fuel.
When going though the history of my grandfathers unit, i found an account where the neighboring brigade managed to breakthrough to an active German airfield. This brigade rammed every plane that was unfortunate to be on the ground.
Early this time
, this channel is amazing!
An older friend of mine studied in the Soviet Union (in the 80s). He spoke with lots of veterans. Some of them tank crew members. An they told him lots of stories of ramming (in addition to other anecdotes of course), and ramming was indeed a desperation tactic, but it seems not so uncommon. Some of the anecdotes i remember my friend was told; one occasion the tank was hit and in flames and so close to a fascist tank that they just rammed it without to much results, only concussions and a bleeding forehead in the crew... and continue to ram another tank that was ahead. This both tanks were wrecked, and they even fight the other crew when abandoning the tank. One of them die in the action. Other crew told than in other occasions they just were out of ammunition, and they prefer ramming a tank if they were in close combat or almost serve as a easy target that leave they friends alone.
Best informative grafic so far: "DONK"
At 21:40 the arrows are wrong. In the picture on the top we can see the sherman's right side, and on the bottom the left side. So it could be possible that the King Tiger was hit by friendly fire.
I have found a piece in testimonies about tank ramming. It's from a book "Я дрался на тигре. Немецкие танкисты рассказывают" made by russian journalist Artem Drabkin who specializes on interviewing WW2 veterans, mostly Soviet, but this book collects interviews of German tankists. I know that "journalist" sounds not very credible, but from what I know, Drabkin cooperated with some respected historians so this piece might be accurate. I made an English translation from Russian, while the original interview, it seems, was in German. My English is very far from perfect, so sorry for any mistakes. The interviewed is tank gunner of Pz-III Ludwig Bauer from Kunzelsau, Wurtemberg, from 9th tank division, 33d tank regiment. It goes:
On July 7, 1942, our company was given the task of covering the open left flank of the tip of the offensive of our division. We stood on the opposite slope of the hill so that it was good to see the terrain in front of us. Suddenly, about 20 Russian tanks appeared from an undisclosed and undiscovered direction. These were the T-34 and the heavy KV-1. Everything happened very quickly. From 500 meters we opened fire on them. I hit the first T-34, which immediately caught fire, but our tank got hit in the lower part of the turret. The turret jammed and it did not turn anymore. While I was poking around in the turret mechanism, the KV-1 at full speed approached us and crashed into our side. Then he drove 10 meters back and crashed into us again. Then again. After the third blow, he again drove back and fired. The Russian gunner was probably nervous, so he ended up shooting in the engine compartment. The tank cought fire, and we jumped out of it. Sepp Luckner [a radio operator] ran to the Russian tank and tried to knock him out with a hand grenade, but nothing came of it. We rushed into a large field of sunflowers to hide there. There, after about 50 meters, a tall Russian with a rifle suddenly appeared in front of us and shouted to us: “Stoi!” Sepp grabbed the rifle and tried to wrest it from his hands. (then Bauer starts to tell how they escaped from Soviet infantry. It seems that they were not wounded from the ram as they managed to return back to their unit after 3 days of roaming).
I'd be willing to believe both accounts, mainly because as far as the Sherman crewman's concerned, if a Königstiger is traversing to shoot at you, it doesn't matter if he's going to take twenty seconds still, in your mind, it's the last moment strung out for all twenty seconds.
One thing to mention about those final accounts of the British and German, is that if the tiger did veer to the left just before hitting the Sherman as proposed, then the barrel of the tiger would have been aiming much closer to the Sherman before this sharp turn (as the barrel would have moved to the right with the left turn of the reversing tank), which would add some support to the British commander's statement.
I tink the "StuG ramming advice" is meant for situations when the gun is already out of service and the situation is dire. And i think the best chance is going with the center of the front hull in an angle against the tracks on a corner of the opponents vehicle. In this case the strongest part of your vehicle hits a weakpoint of the opponents vehicle and is going to at least immobilze it. And maybe the opponents gun travers is then blocked by your own vehicle so he could fire beside you but not at you.
Nick puts up a really good argument .
Ooooh that Bethesda burn!
During the battle for the liberation of Paris, Marcel Bizien, TC of the sherman "Douaumont" of the French 2nd Armored Division, rammed and captured a Panther while fighting on the Place de la Concorde, during the assault on the German HQ at the Hotel Meurice.
Bizien was a descendant of a famous french privateer of the XVIth century and "wanted to capture himself a german tank by boarding". when arriving on the Place de la Concorde, he saw a panther presenting his side to him. His gunner fired but had a smoke shell loaded (up until that point they were providing fire support for advancing infantry). He quickly understood that there was no time to load another shell, and ordered a ramming. The german crew then escaped through the escape hatch, as the ram had disabled the turret drive and they couldn't align the gun. Bizien then ordered an AP shell to be fired in the Panther's side to totally incapacitate it.
Marcel Bizien was killed a few seconds later by a german bullet from the Hotel Meurice, while he was guiding his tank with the top of his body out of the turret.
You can see the disabled panther being inspected by french civilians after the battle on this picture : www.fncv.com/biblio/conflits/1939-1945/liberation_paris/panther.jpg
Fun fact: the tank action on that day was commanded by Colonel Billotte (yeah THE Billotte that destroyed 13 german tanks in a matter of minutes at Stonne in 1940)
There were several incidents of opposing tanks colliding in the Pacific theater. There also exists a published photo of a Japanese tank stuck on the engine deck of a US Sherman after plunging off an embankment onto the Sherman.
I saw the picture of the Sherman ramming the King Tiger tank from behind but didn't know about the written accounts that followed. It's a funny thought of German and British crews cuddling together in a hole amidst artillery shells falling around them when just moments before either one of them could have killed each other.
i am certain the king tiger ramming with a sherman spoken about in this video is a version of something i read yesterday, the account i read yesterday was from the sherman commander point of view and was wildly different from the German tankers account, it painted the English tanker as a huge hero who had his sherman drive down hill gathering speed and momentum and ramming the tiger in the rear knocking it out.
im so glad i seen this video today to get both sides looked at impartially where some truth can be found in the middle of both accounts.
"German pre-war army regulations"
*shudders in ecstasy *
Even today, tanks require constant maintenance. It's a common saying that if you don't drive a tank it will fall apart. US Tank Crews do daily maintenance checks even during peacetime. Those checks are made up of "Before, During, and After" checks meaning obviously, that on a daily schedule crews are to perform before operations checks, during operations checks (meaning you take the tanks out for a drive), and after operations checks once you return to the motor pool. In practice, most units do not do this every day as other training requirements frequently take precedent, furthermore, many units only actually take the vehicles out for a drive once a week.
love the accent, specially talking about tank and military things
What I read from one of the tank aces Knispel, was they were interlocked and could not kill one another with the gun because they couldn't swivel the gun onto the target because the other tank was in the way.
4200th like - deserved (the Bethesda games reference was the best)
Hahaha, I love the chainsawsword with the mention Heretics ! And the unicorn 😂
How to upgrade your lucky Stug to Jagd Panzer trying ramming the enemy.
How close would you be to the enemy when your trying to ram the enemy.
Bernard I really respect the work you do here. Your research is enormously thorough and without peer when it comes to original sources of this type of material.
There are times where ramming would be a good idea. If you ram their tank with yours where you block an entire collumn of tanks from being able to advance where your infantry can destroy or capture the enemy tanks then that may be a good reason to destroy your own tank ramming other tanks. Another reason to ram is when your tank is basically destroyed already and you can do more damage to the enemies ability to be a effective fighting force.
have you ever sat in a tank? i sat in a t34 at a museum, they started it up and went around the block, taking a couple people at a time.. each bump hurt.. talking little cracks in the road, when he went up a curb it hurt even more. it got to a point where i had to lift myself of my seat, but i was strapped in. and so when the next bump hit because i was raised a bit off my seat, like 1 inch, it fractured my tailbone coming down.
with that experience i can safely say, that all these accounts of them ramming and walking away from it, are total bs.. shins would snap, fingers, wrists, and forearms would be broken, ribs would be messed up too, and your head, would be bouncing off all that iron, i could also see the possibility of your back breaking on impact.
also leads me to believe most tankers, have broken multiple bones just from operating a tank.
czcams.com/video/OG5RjXZOHRU/video.html
I had not a single scratch. You should also not forget that they probably wore protective gear etc.
I know "tank bites", when I pushed myself out of a T-55 turret, my leg touched a bit on the "hatch-ring" even through the jeans it tore off some skin.
Remember those guys knew the tank in and out.
Guy at the museum told me that old men that could barely walk and were "let loose" on the tanks they trained on, got in and out faster than the young staff that operates them.
0:40 that green tank on the right, just above his shoulder, is a megablock leopard 2, it's the same i had when i was a child
I like how you leave the Bethesda note
I read a rather well-rated short non-fiction story by a former King Tiger commander fighting in one of the last battles on the Western Front in 1945, in that famous Soviet encirclement of German forces south of Berlin, where he describes some pretty horrific attrocities committed by Soviets and some rather ludicrous feats his tank performed under his command. One of the things he does multiple times with his tank is ramming Soviet tanks--successfully--and without knocking his own tank out of action even temporarily (and he also describes tank ramming as something that happened rather commonly among the engagements he saw/participated in). This video has made me doubt his story even more than I already did.
In the photograph, it is seen that the "under" tank has its tracks firmly on the ground. The "upper" tank does not have the required traction to "drive up onto" the "lower" tank. A ramming tank is not going to "pop up" like when I hit a curb in a rainstorm in my Mini. It is just too heavy. So the odds are that the lower tank continued to drive forward under the "upper" tank until it could go no further. In other words, I'd bet that the lower tank is the ramming vehicle, or they were both consciously ramming each other.
Also, armor rarely operates without supporting infantry, anti-tank guns, etc. Tank versus tank combat is not a medieval joust.
Complex, because soviet in early wars probably will have a ton of problems when come to tank support, and germans probably not much, but in the early stages of the war they will not have proper portable at weapons, and will likely need support from nearby at weapons company, and to this will have to take a time, sufficiently to the soviet tanker ram and imobilize the german spa, so i believe that to German infantry fighting agains a t34 with at rifles and granades will not be a good Idea, especially agains a move target and
Uncknow vehicle, the psychological effect probably will be sufficient.
"süspicious"
"over hier"
"the tiger commander was a noob"
best informative video ever lmaoo
The only time I've seen two (former) tracked fighting vehicles colliding is an old video of the Virginia Beach Beast and Gator (Stewarts with Chevrolet square bodies on top and blown big blocks in the back) colliding at a USHRA show in Anaheim. Very much wondering now how much damage that did to the drivetrains. They didn't collide HARD but neither vehicle moved after the incident, and the footage, from what I remember, doesn't show them being either towed or moving away from the scene.
8:25 as a Lithuanian just want to tell you that pronunciation was horrible of Raseiniai. Either way I love your content keep up!
One day I will have to answer for my crimes at the international court of pronunciation violations...
Just wait until the topic ever turns to Dutch locations or military history... Extremely reliable historical rumour has it that Germans once went "You're just Swamp-Germans! You're a fake country" and the Dutch took massive offense and in response came up with an own language that is guaranteed to be 100% unpronounceable.
@ My grandmother (who was half-Dutch and half-German) spoke Dutch and claimed the secret of fluency is to get in your conversants face, spit a lot , and sound like you're choking on a fishbone. Now that I write this, I realize it is not very correct during the current unpleasantness.
"Heroism failed from a lack of lethal materials" lmao ... love the way that guy writes.
nice chain sword at 9:05, when are we gonna get some 40k doctrine or something bernhard lol
Ramming at kursk did happen tho. Have you watched the documentary about the kursk battle? They interviewed both soviet and german tank crews that took part in the battle for the documentary. A Tiger gunner explained how his engine was disabled, he destroyed around 6 t-34's before another t-34 came full speed and crashed into him almost climbing onto the roof of the tiger.
The Soviet tank crewman then explained that their tanks were not able to penetrate the tigers, they were stuck in an open field with no chance of escape so the only option left was to ram into the tigers to disable their guns.
Brings back fond memory of world of tanks :) Ramming things was irrationally satisfying. Notable rammers included the VK 2801, E-50/M, M6 heavy, and basically anything sitting on the edge of a cliff when an unsuspecting enemy drives underneath.
Goodness this was a well timed video for me, as I just watched some videos with accounts of tanks literally crushing enemy equipment.
So in the Tiger/Sherman ramming incident:
Saying the gun was a 12o:clock relative to the turret makes no sense, it is pretty much fixed relative to the turret front and moves by rotating the turret. The British commander probably exaggerated a lot in saying the the Tiger almost had him in his sights, but not in saying the turret was rotating towards him.
As far as track marks showing the Tiger turned meaning it was a deliberate ram; backing through a major hedge would seem likely to make a vehicle veer from a straight course. Lots of reasons to start turning as you cane through the hedge