Magic in 2002 Was Truly Something Else | Psychatog vs Squirrel Opposition
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- čas přidán 22. 07. 2024
- We invited special guest Frank Karsten to play the 2002 World Championship Top 4 decks and show us what the game was like back then! We learn about Oppostions locks, the science behind the correct Fact or Fiction splitting and the reason why after 8 years of dominance it was finally time to take Counterspell out of standard.
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Always a winning episode when Frank makes an appearance.
exactly my thoughts! but this channel rarely disappoints anyway, keep it up guys.
@@lordmatz3435 that was an inclusive cheer for Frank, not exclusive. The boys know that we love their hard work.
Just want to say. I really enjoy segments like where Frank discussed fact or fiction splits.
I was going to ask, do you think they recorded this before or after Frank's 2 absolute clutch fact or fiction 0/5 splits against Toffal from a few weeks back? If anyone missed it Frank bluffed having the card that did 2/3 damage for each instant or sorcery in their hand that would have been lethal so he gave Toffal a 0/5 split. Toffal was forced to take 0, the next turn he does the same split, Toffal laughs because he already took 0 but seen it was a bluff so he took the 5 this time, only Frank has topdecked the card he needed and snatched victory from the laws of defeat. One of the best plays I've ever seen.
To be fair the FoF split was often relatively easy to do. There is often a powerful card in the 5 that you know they're going to want. You ask yourself, will they take that on it's own in a 1 vs 4 split, if so split like that and they only get one card. If not then the 4 is too strong, which card(s) of the 4 can you put with the powerful one to keep the two sides balanced the best. Job done. There are a few crazy cases like the 5-0 split, but normally the above works and isn't too hard to think through.
Legend has it pros figured out Psychatog was incredible by using it as a proxy for Shadowmage Infiltrator and realizing it was actually a better card in almost every scenario.
Also heard this! Unfortunately after I got my (very expensive) playset of shadowmage
This is exactly what happened.... I was actually there the day this interaction was discovered at star city games.... We were drafting and several of us were using psychatog as a proxy for infiltrator in an esper control deck that was all in on things like absorb and undermine and mana short original idea was that we would pressure out opponents by playing cards like meddling mage and shadow mage early on backed up by our force spikes and memory lapse and chainers edict or we could play stand still then sit back until we forced the opponent to break standstill and draw the control deck 3 cards that typically gaure teed us a counter spell of some sort we were trying to faceless butcher our meddling mages then cast upheaval which left a meddling mage in play but we kept discarding our hands and being left with a less then optimal board state and huge graveyard that's when it dawned on us that if we had psychatog instead of meddling mage we could use the huge graveyard left behind by upheaval to kill the opponent and that was basically the beginning of the terro that was Dr teeth.... Wizards even printed shock in the following set bc they needed a way to deal with psychatog but all that did was make us add red to the deck 😅
I wouldn’t be surprised if that was one reason. Alternatively, I remember that there was a deck that dominated at state championships that planned to Upheaval into Zombie Infestation. When the first pro level standard event was held afterwards, these Upheaval decks had replaced Zombie Infestation with Psychatog.
@@zigzag2370ok I'm going to call bullshit, Ryan fuller was never at star city games. Stop lying. He's fucking Canadian and he won the San Diego masters. Then the deck destroyed the next weekend of JSS qualifiers in the US. Carlos Romao won the pro tour by not countering fact or fiction and instead saving to fight over upheaval. Ryan fuller is the tog innovator full stop.
@@85mcarnoldyes this coupled with the fact that shadowmage got wrecked by urzas rage.
Happy to see frank again, his excitement for the game is contagious
I wish they did print runs like this today so casual players can feel what its like to play at the top
Just play Magic Arena. You can easily play top decks for free.
@@Last_Resort991 Well, kinda. You have to spend tons of wildcards and to get those either cost money or a lot of patience and grinding
You can make proxies yourself (print and put in sleeves) or order them printed on (kind of) authentic cardboard for a few cents per card.
@@Last_Resort991 "for free" lmao. its a complete chore to grind arena, if you have responsibilities like work or shit like that.
The end of world championship decks does seem like a missed opportunity for easy money. I believe Pokemon TCG still does it.
I really miss when magic cards didnt have 36 lines of text.
Very fun episode guys as usual.
It is unfortunately inevitable if you want the game to evolve. That said I wonder what would become of the game if they focused more on reprints and made only like one set of cards a year. Sounds like an interesting format, but other then that I cannot imagine Magic still being around without the increasing complexity. There is just so many cool, innovative and fresh card games and I cannot imagine how magic could stick around without its depth.
The Fact or Fiction value talk reminds me of the wild 2x 0-vs-5 Fact or Fiction play on an earlier vid.
Was thinking the same thing. That was one of the coolest play sequences I've ever seen.
"and a bunch of lands" just made my day. Best editor in these parts by far.
I laughed so hard there.
Karsten is an MTG MVP, can't say it better tbh
I'm such a huge fan of Frank, his knowledge, experience, insights and charisma are absolutely a HOUSE!
That's probably why he's in the MTG Hall of Fame.
I always forget that Frank Karsten is a PHD mathematician! Looking at Fact or Fiction through a combinatorics lens is so interesting!
This series along with the best deck ever series are just the best magic content. I love seeing old decks
Agree. I have moved on from playing magic. I prefer the way it used to be and love these videos!
Being 15 is no excuse, Thoralf. In 2004, Julien Nuijten was 15 years old when he won the world championship with Astral Slide.
They mentioned the bird every game but the nightscape familiar(s) did so much work. The fact you can play them after your upheaval to get restarted quickly is really good.
Next video: Magic in 2050 will truly be something else
I would love to see them make this unironically. Just let them decide what to power creep and play a deck like that.
"New Secret Lair: U.S. Presidents"
Didnt they make a future set? That was semi an joke
Xzikomfdfhj's Scorn: R, sorcery, You win the game, unless a player pays 20 life, then you lose the game instead ... red is still OP in the future
"RoboRosewater"
Please keep doing these and bringing in Karsten. The history is so wonderful I’d love y’all to keep doing this series even after you’ve used all of the world champions decks.
Frank Karsten talking about combinatorial partition problems is exactly why you gotta be careful when playing complex strategy games against mathematicians xD
I see Frank Karsten, I smash the like button!
Anytime i see frank karsten, or even look at one of his decklists I can literally feel the energy behind it. Always love when you guys have him on.
Edit: evidentsly everyone agrees
Frank's advice for FoF was fantastic. It's so great to hear someone who lived through those standards break it down for casuals
Frank Karsten quickly becoming one of my favourite parts of mtg content on youtube!
Frank Karsten, plus a positively heavenly control deck, has made my day. A counterspell was one of the first cards I ever played in Magic, and I still play Fact or Fiction in all of my Commander decks for the fun of the piles minigame.
I loved playing psychatog, it was my first "competitive deck" that and I had a nimble mongoose/wild mongral/aquameba/basking rootwalla madness deck. To this day I still hold these cards close to my heart. So many amazing childhood memories.
Psychatog madness was my first ever competitive deck and I will always love it too
I Love Frank Carsten, its always so cool when he appears in any of your Videos. Pls invite him more often!
As someone who started paying Magic in 1993...I love this series.
That last game was really good. Hibernation is one hell of a card.
Yes, I asked myself tho if all green permanents also would mean his green lands? Cuz they didn't return those 😅
@@jana-mariefranke849 Lands are colorless permanents (except for corner cases like Dryad Arbor)
Getting to watch Karsten in play and the timeless decks is an instant appreciated like from me
I love Frank's breakdown of FoF. It's often such a complex card to play against.
Carlos Romão's WC Psychatog deck was a significant milestone for me. I bought this deck in high school out of pure curiosity, wanting to see what WC players did when building decks. It took me several months of toying around with the deck, but I finally figured out how to pilot it properly, and that whole process made me an infinitely better player. This one product did more to improve my skills than any individual article, game, or experience, and I'll remember it always. I"m not exaggerating when I say it changed my life; it made Magic more than just a casual game to play with friends, it became a lifelong hobby.
That's such a nice story to hear man :3, my first love of card games beyond casually playing was Dino Rabbit in 2012 Yu-Gi-Oh! and the subsequent formats with Wind-ups, Mermail, Spellbook and Dragon Rulers. A format for which I was too young to play at the time was DupeTroop which entailed a bunch of different decks with varying playstyles but all centered around the card Card Trooper.
for me that deck was the perfect storm when I was ~11 years old.
We had a guy in my card-shop that had all the vintage-staple decks and had no problem with handing a noobie like me a full powered deck just so he could giggle at the way I played them in the beginning.
Joke was on him really quickly tho, as I became very good with them :D
I’m a simple man. I see Frank Karsten, I hit the thumbs up button! 👍
I can appreciate Frank even more for asking the question i shout at the screen everytime of "whats the maximum theoretical damage from this"
Bring Frank back on lots more
Frank reading a bedtime story to them is everything
Also, more MTG history with Frank. Love these
I just love Toffel's energy and hype
🥰
Best mtg video series of youtube, this along best deck all time. You guys rocks!
you rock!
These episodes are always fun! I never realized just how strong Psychatog was. It looks so unassuming!
I see Frank Karsten, I click on the video, it’s that simple
This was my childhood! Invasion and Odyssey block all the way!!!
Invasion block was awesome.. the first set ever where 5 color decks were viable. Had so much fun mucking about with those multi color decks!
I love how, with a simple studio, real people playing real games, and some smart editing choices, you folks are able to produce MtG entertainment that blows the biggest shows like Game Knights out of the water.
"You should have bought a squirrel" @11:00 I love that I just heard a random reference to Rat Race in a Magic video, especially since it's Magic in 2002 and Rat Race released just the previous year.
Well done! 🥰
Wow, thanks guys, Psychatog was my very first deck, this really felt like home!
That colour screw on Frank's side though: when the opposition deck discards opposition you can tell something went wrong
I've not played MTG since around 2009 but I always enjoyed your content since stumbling across the channel. These videos with Frank using older decks has been a treat, as well as being able to more easily follow the board state without the more text heavy modern "newer" cards. Keep up the great work.
I'm happy you enjoy our nostalgia content :) it's our favourite to make!
As someone whose work is often adjacent to combinatorics and game theory i would love to hear Frank talk about the mathamatics of MTG
Magic was so much fun and a bit simpler in the early aughts, feels like a different game now almost. This episode made me very nostalgic. Hoping for more, and more appearances from Frank.
11:00 never thought I'd hear an English Rat Race reference from Toffel
Frank is such a gem i always enjoy watching him play these old decks
Could watch Frank Karsten make FoF splits for hours. Complex and fascinating thought process that goes into making those decisions.
I've never played old-school Magic, but something about old control decks that play 1/2s makes me smile.
Frank is such a nice guy!
I love this series so much. Super fun to see what magic used to look like.
Fact or Fiction was such a well-designed card. Both players have agency over the outcome and it never feels unfair even though its caster will always get some value out of it. It forces players to acknowledge each other's presence and pits them in a battle of wits beyond stack battles. I was truly sad to see it get power creeped.
EOT FoF was considered virtually unbeatable, I don't think anyone at the time considered it fair
Man, do I love this series and miss Dr. Teeth dearly.
Frank's explanation of fact or fiction was super insightful.
This Videos take me back to my childhood. It feels so good and brings back so much memories.
It was a time with no worries. Playing with your friends. Sometimes even drawing from the same Deck. A time where i had no idea, which cards are good, which are Bad. A time, where we younger players always got ripped from older players in Our school-library.
early mtg is something different but still fun.
I love the sound design of the creatures entering the battlefield!
When Frank showed his SideBoard Magazine copies I felt a warm and cozy sensation in my chest. What a nostalgic memory.
I started playing a few years after and never played with Psychatog so it was hard for me to grasp just how powerful of a card it was back then in that environment. You definitely showcased its power, impressive card!
Great to see this series continuing, im not sure how much more of these decks there are but I'm here for as much as we can get.
One of the best intro scenes ive seen on the channel keep on innovating your videos love to see it
This is such a cool series. It’s awesome to hear Frank talk about and share all the nostalgia.
I love when you have guests. Thank you for it 😊
Great game! Great commentary! Great episode! ❤❤❤
This channel never misses, great video!
I love the series and seeing some classic One v One match ups
I love editing in the interludes about iconic old cards. So fun to take the trip to 2002.
These series are so great, not just the gameplay portion but the interspersed discussions.
Great video, I always look forward to watching Thoralf and Frank play these old decks and share memories!
Great video, it's awesome to watch talented people doing and explaining what they love
Awesome Video, love it ❤ Frank is so exited and looking forward to the next ones. Also I really love your Video ideas and all the work which is put into it.
Thanks for bringing back Frank again! Great video guys! :)
"You should have bought a squirrel", nice Rat Race reference, very timely for 2002!
Mega gutes Video!
Einfach immer wieder schön alte Decks zu sehen!
I'd love to see more of this series!
Awesome video from the best Magic channel on the tube.
Frank and this old magic brings back so much nostalgia and history
This is my favourite series of yours, old Magic with Mr. K
Such good content! It's really interesting to see how strategies and tactics were different at that time. Also got some hints for my commanders, so thank you very much!
Probably my favourite series that you guys do. Seeing Magic from times that I missed is awesome.
I really liked this Format of half gameplay, half an interview. Very well done!
I love these old tournament deck videos!
Please more!!! I love Frank! What an incredible player, and just generally awesome guy!
I love the mix of history and gameplay of mtg. Great video, especially with Frank! Keep this going for as long as possible!
Best mtg content available, as always with you guys. Kudos !
I hope you'll continue this serie.
My first MTG event was a FNM Odyssey draft, so seeing the old decks in action is a real nostalgia hit.
I love this series! Frank is such a gem. And so is everyone from the Cardmarket team - onscreen or not. Thanks for blessing us with these uploads.
This is one of the best ones ever. The decks are so cool, the editing is phenomenal as always and Torralf and Frank are the perfect duo at hyping and reminiscing together. Please do way more of these and please get Karsten back to tell us more about the olden days when magic was about reading and math.
Love these old matchups, yall rock :-)
you guys absolutely make the best mtg content atm, sad that you dont have more subscribers, you definitely deserve over 1 million^^
I really enjoy these videos, Frank's explanations are great. I also love seeing older cards that I heard were great used in game to see exactly how and why they were so good.
It also helps that pretty much every game played in this series really comes down to the wire.
I love this series! It also makes me super nostalgic for these gold border cards, I remember picking up a few of these decks when I was still learning how to play, so it's super cool seeing all these stories come to life!
This was the height of my Magic playing, such good times. I remember the power of all these cards. I think in 2002 I was playing a blue/red deck, but 2003, the Odyssey/Onslaught Standard I ran a mono white deck that did really good.
Love these episodes! The 1998 Brian seldon deck is still one of, if not my favorite deck ever.
Love these videos and Frank is a great guest. Would be awesome if you can record more games with other old World Championship decks!
This was the year I started playing. Seeing these cards being played again like this really took me back to when I was really new and though so many bad cards were good lol.
Great video! Love the historic ones!
Best series on the channel, got to love it.
Ah yes 2002
I remember it distinctly, the year I was born
I started playing Magic during the Odissey block so this bring back lots of memories! Love these throwbacks to the early 2000s! Keep em coming!
Love this series. Makes mecwant to own these cards as its the set i started playing in and i miss the cards. Also Frank Karsten is the reason i fell in love with competitive magic when he played in the kamigawa finals. One of my favorite matches ever.
Love to hear stories from those times. The nostalgia is strong with Dr Teeth
My older brother got me into magic with a Psychatog deck, he ran a playset of Spell Pierce, Mana Leak and Memory Lapse OG Polluted Deltas, and Accumelated Knowledge and Fact or Fiction for card draw and an Intuition in the main board AND in the sideboard with a full set of Cunning Wish. It was Bonkers. Still the most memorable deck for me
I truly believe the "documentary" bits of these videos are amazing segments that hold an almost archaelogical value from the TCG world perspective. When you also had deep insights as the one provided by Karl and Thoralf over each play you really get an insanely educational product for those who seek a better understanding of the game's history and mechanics, and an highly entertaing one to boot!
Just great work guys, keep 'em coming!