The MAPPA Situation is Worse Than I Thought
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- čas přidán 3. 06. 2024
- The situation at MAPPA is worse than I thought. Jujutsu Kaisen season 2 has experienced some insane production issues. The 17th episode of the second season (Thunderclap Pt. 2) was only 30% complete when it was released on the air. Hopefully this video explains not only how this happened, but why it happened.
*Drew’s Notes:
The map of production timelines is not 100% accurate, but it was based on the most relevant info I could find.
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Music used:
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Dragon Ball FighterZ OST - Arcade
Dragon Ball FighterZ OST - Raid
Sources:
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animehunch.com/jjk-s2-animato...
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• Attack On Titan Animat...
0:00 Intro
0:40 What happened at MAPPA?
1:15 We have to go back... Way back.
2:43 JJK0 has Major Issues
3:43 Chainsaw Man THROWS
4:42 JJK S2 EP 17 30% WR
6:31 Who is Responsible?
8:13 Will this Issue Persist?
9:00 Learn to Draw Like the Pros!
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#DrewMalou #MAPPA #Anime - Krátké a kreslené filmy
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.... Also, thanks for your patience! I've been gone for quite a while, and life has been pretty crazy. I'm hoping to get back on track, however, and to pump out even more content than ever before! Thanks as always for watching.
The episode is not just 30% complete. If you want to make a "Mappa bad" clone video like this(that has already been made by a thousand others already) then at least dig down a little bit. This false info was discredited by a director.
The term "not finished" doesn't mean the animation itself is not finished(though it isn't, in some sequences). It means the vision the directors had wasn't used because of time constraints. Sequences had to be cut out.
And Vincent didn't say he'll "never work for mappa ever again". He made it clear he won't work under this kind of conditions. He may consider under good work environment.
As an animation major, I was not only angered, but depressed because people on Twitter were just dehumanizing the animators and treating them like crap while Mappa conducts legalized slave labor again and again. I have an acquaintance who went to the same college I went to and they worked on JJK and my god, their work was amazing but looking at it now, I HOPE they weren't treated like most of the animators were.
Would you mind telling me that animators name/nickname on social madia. Or perhaps the cut(s) they worked on. I'd love to see some of their work.
@@jacob_yakesh7304 Vercreek! They worked on Maki vs Miwa in Season 1 and on the op for Chainsaw man when Denji slides down the building while cutting it with his chainsaws
@@elistrationsYOOO that's crazy! I've been following Vercreek for months now. They are an incredible animator. Really love their work.
“As an animation major”
>no work on their channel
🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢🧢
Bro literally has a video named "art progression"-, you're capping homeboy @@MachiriReviews
The “30% of the vision” tweet def did not mean “the episode was 30% done” but instead “we were not able to do 70% of the things we wanted to do”
True!
it still looks like this. The animation is just terrible
@@Mixalich27 Most of it is, yeah. Its like a few good shots followed by 10 terrible ones. You can tell they were cutting corners everywhere, the static landscapes were one of the worst aspects, looked like they just took a photograph and put an anime filter over.
Which anime @@CODA96
@@user-dr7jo5no7k Jujutsu Kaisen?
When I saw that episode I thought "what a bold design decision, all of it is rough lines and simple colors, translates the raw power of their fight really well", but now I realize it's all mostly well composed roughs to hide the unfinishedness of it all. It's really heartbreaking.
I will still keep that thought as head canon
@@Tajbor87fr
It is heartbreaking. It is one of the most incredible fights in animation, and it was only 30% complete??? It is sad where corporate bad planning stops artists from achieving greatness. If it was completed to its full vision it would be talked and admired for decades to come.
Dude your so dumb , I saw right through the fast paced and Swift animation, the bad quality of the animation. Just look at Gojo vs Toji fight , everything is so detailed and you can see every move , every expression of their faces .
But in sukuna vs mahoraga , they just animated any sh*t possible , sukuna cutting open entire Tokyo , the whole city burns down , we did not even get to know what mahoraga can do on its own .. when you boil things down to that level of vagueness because a character is powerful , it is very easy to animate anything anyhow to make up for the deadline .
Just look at the animation, everything is smaller , colours are flaky and fading etc etc .
@Cypeq Can this lie stop already. No the episode was not 30% done. The animator that posted had to go back and say that's not actually what they meant and that it was closer to 30% of the intended vision. The episode was finished. It just could've looked better. If it was 30% done we would be seeing raw genga and multiple shots of nothing whatsoever.
Even if MAPPA where to suddenly treat their animators fairly and reduce production, some other studio will take up the same path. The only way I can see this problem solved is by new worker laws from the japanese government. This isn't just a MAPPA issue, MAPPA is just a well known studio and therefore in bad press, but there are countless Japanese office companies with similar or worse work environment.
there are workers rights, but its the culture thats preventing any change. japan requires people to be paid for overtime, but people refuse pay because its the work place culture as well as the bosses will find it "disrespectful"
Yeah, this is true. They would need country-wide regulations for their industry, but this unhealthy work culture permeates pretty much ever facet and industry of Japan, so it is extremely unlikely anything will change. Thank you for watching!
I didn't know that, but somehow I'm not surprised. That's wild!
their culture of workholism is the real issue.
You can start that change by first pressuring MAPPA to change though. They don't deserve leniency on this.
Domain expansion: Inhumane work conditions
LOOOOL I laughed way too hard at this comment! 😂 Thanks for watching!
Nah….. 💀
Actually lets see David Production HQ after they animated all the horses in Steel Ball Run!
@@CODA96if they actually plan to work on steel ball run
@@staanapb Bro this studio only does JoJo
I like how mappa artists released the half finished Mahoraga fight and then affirmed that it is indeed half finished so that their poor working conditions would become public. They basically said "We makin it out of the office with this one"
Hahaha, for real! 😂 I sincerely hope they actually will one day make it out of the office, lol. Thanks for watching!
i don't get how they were physically capable of producing so much high quality animation so quickly. you would expect more corner cutting with time restrictions like that. even the 30% complete episode of jjk was an absolute banger
I know!! I'm guessing they all just sacrificed their personal lives and had to grind their careers for a few years, but it is crazy they didn't cut corners and kept the quality consistent.
the director of that episode made it clear that the episode was actually closer to 90% complete, he meant that 30% of the episode's vision was complete meaning they could've gone more experimental with the fights and had better storyboarding/fight choreography had they had more time but the actual episode was basically complete.
They’re just that good.
But those precious gems shouldn’t be abused.
lets not forget, this whole time the CSM Reze arc was in production after the drop of the first season
That's true!! I forgot to add that part. Thanks for watching!
So basically, the production committee decides how much time a studio gets to animate a show, without any knowledge of what it takes to animate. Meanwhile the CEO of Mappa takes on these deals because he wants their studio to have a high quantity of quality productions, without any idea how long it actually takes to animate a season.
And because the CEO accepts and delivers through crunch, the Production committee thinks the time they give to the studio is enough and shorten the production time again and again.
The animators, who have passion, get more and more work pushed on to them in smaller timeframes, and have to crunch their way through it. And in the end they feel like failures, exhausted and lost of passion.
"When the animator sticks out, it gets hydraulic pressed down"
Yeah, that's a pretty good summation of the vicious cycle! It stinks, but luckily there are some good studios out there creating tremendous work with very healthy working conditions, so it is possible to accomplish. I suppose that's the silver lining, haha. Anyways, thanks for watching!
This is the sad reality everywhere. I work in retail and they halved our employees per shift, expecting us to get the same amount of work, if not more, done before this change was enacted. Sadly, we worked to meet expectations and now this exception has become the norm. If we were able to meet expectations once, we are now expected to keep this quota again and again.
This is the sad reality everywhere. I work in retail and they halved our employees per shift, expecting us to get the same amount of work, if not more, done before this change was enacted. Sadly, we worked to meet expectations and now this exception has become the norm. If we were able to meet expectations once, we are now expected to keep this quota again and again.
This is the sad reality everywhere. I work in retail and they halved our employees per shift, expecting us to get the same amount of work, if not more, done before this change was enacted. Sadly, we worked to meet expectations and now this exception has become the norm. If we were able to meet expectations once, we are now expected to keep this quota again and again.
This is the sad reality everywhere. I work in retail and they halved our employees per shift, expecting us to get the same amount of work, if not more, done before this change was enacted. Sadly, we worked to meet expectations and now this exception has become the norm. If we were able to meet expectations once, we are now expected to keep this quota again and again.
imagine working on projects like jjk, aot and the biggest names in anime, but not being able to look back fondly, or be proud of your work because of the conditions you were working in
I know! That's so heartbreaking. 😭
Domain expansion: Melovelant Contracts
I laughed way too hard at this! 😂😂😂
God 😂😂
A message for Mappa: Mappa, let the animators rest as long as they need. We are fine waiting any amount of time.
They don't really care about the fans, they just want their money, fast
@@CT-cl9wi if no one is able to animate anymore they will also lose
@@lesensdelavie1185I'm not talking about the animators, I'm talking about their ceo, the ones that don't need to do the hard work
Bro... Mappa aint going to read this lmao. Send that shit to them in Japanese.
@@dess3597 i put it for someone who can send it to mappa
Man I hope chainsaw man movie and season 2 won’t get poorly adapted. I hope the situation will improve. Bless these animators.
Same! Although the director of Chainsaw Man just quit MAPPA to start his own animation studio, so the future of CM seems uncertain! And yes, the animators need a break, haha.
@@DrewMalou That has not been confirmed last time i checked. It was a theory if we go by the biggest article publishing this story..
it won't be bad just mediocer animation like everything Mappa does; compare to Demon Slayer which has amazing animation because the studio mainly just works on Demon Slayer
Demon slayer has a lot of shitty moments esp S3 and CSM looks much better just from character animation itself@@cottoncandykawaii2673
this is the 10th time the MAPPA situation is "worse than we thought". we've been having this discussion throughout the entirety of JJK Season 2
True, but this is worse than any of us thought until it will be worse than any of us could have ever previously thought.
You know that the "30% complete"" is completely wrong right? what was said was that only 30% of the ARTISTIC VISION was fully realized.
So what would it look like if t was 100% realised? Still a huge fraction from what was originally proposed. But that doesn't negate the god awful conditions and pay. They need to unionise.
@@ThisHandleSystemCanGetNicked This was a team comprised of 60+ top-of-the-industry key animators with 2 of the most ambitious action directors at the helm 100% realization was likely never going to happen even under good circumstances like even what I'd argue to be the most polished episode of Shibuya ep 16 and had the best schedule out of the high priority action episodes had ideas that didn't make it in like you could see in sou Miyazaki concept layout because they were too ambitious. I think attaching the 30% number to completion widely misrepresents Roccia's point and could give viewers the wrong impression. This doesn't excuse any of the circumstances, but if he wanted to attach a number to completion, 70-80% probably would have been more accurate as there are unfinished cuts, continuity issues, and in-betweening errors throughout this episode due to its schedule.
I understand your sentiments, but I don't think it's completely wrong. First, in a creative endeavor, I don't see how "completion" vs. "artistic vision" are not synonymous. Second, to your point about ambitious directors... If the staff had infinite time, sure maybe they could achieve 100%, which would be nuts. What we ended up getting was also nuts. I loved it, but the animation is _very_ rough. Not to the point of it "not being entirely what we hoped to achieve" but to the point that there are severe artistic and technical issues present throughout the entire sequence. There are an enormous amount of composition errors for a studio this renowned, to the point where many segments look like rough animatic placeholders. That's not any shade to the animators, it's just the results of the crunch.
I am curious to know why so many people take offense at the 30% remark... Is it because he tried to quantify it? And the number is just too low of an estimate? I can understand that, but his sentiments (at least to me) seemed to be that the majority of what they tried to accomplish did not come to fruition in this episode, which seems plenty accurate to me.
@@DrewMalou Not to mention the director would clearly know how much of the planned episode they achieved. If that’s what the director himself is saying, who are we armchair experts to question him over it?
Spreading misinformation for views, sigh
Attack on titan and Jujutsu kaisen had different teams working on them (AoT had Hayashi team and JJK Seshimo team) so their schedules and staff didn't overlap, except with some freelance animators like Vercreek who worked on both for few cuts of animation.
JJK didn't have tighter schedule because of AoT or vise versa, it's because Hayashi's team had just finished Dorohedoro and as a result their time on S4P1 was limited and Seshimo team was busy with God of highschool before moving onto JJK.
Glad to see someone mention this. While I'm happy to see that many people want to speak up and educate people on the situation, I have yet to see a video that actually comprehends the inner workings of the industry.
@@oskarbergene1733 Probably Pretentious and Manko Man are the best anime youtubers when it comes to production breakdown and animation analysis. their knowledge about the industry is insane
Thanks for clarifying! The sources I found didn't break this down completely, so that was a bit of an oversight on my part. If I may ask, how did you learn what team is producing which show and when? I did my best to search for this info, but couldn't find anything of much substance. Is it just who you follow on twitter and translating all of the show's credits?
Sounds like it's time for you to make a video! 👀 I would totally watch it!
Thank you for the references! I'm off to go study and research, lol. 🔎
Great video man! I really hope these people find better positions in companies that respect their work and the individual.
Thank you so much! Glad you enjoyed it, and yes, I hope so too, for their sakes!
I'm just sad thinking that the only solution to that, should probably be a legal act from above done to regulate and protect animators and their right on their work... But sadly this seems so impossible to happen...
Yeah... Laws would probably be the best way to get this to stop long term, but these problems persist outside of just the animation industry. They seem to be ingrained in the work culture, so I also think that this probably won't happen anytime soon. Thank you for watching, my friend!
@@DrewMalou great video as always... so always a pleasure to watch💪🏻
This is the sad reality everywhere. I work in retail and they halved our employees per shift, expecting us to get the same amount of work, if not more, done before this change was enacted. Sadly, we worked to meet expectations and now this exception has become the norm. If we were able to meet expectations once, we are now expected to keep this quota again and again.
Thanks for watching, as always my friend! 🙏
That's wild. If you can, it might be time to look for another job! If they don't value your health and time, why should you be expected to value theirs?
The animators for the JJK/CSM team are mostly freelancers so AoT and JJK under production at the same time didn’t negatively affect AoT, which was done with in house animators.
Also S2 ep.17 wasn’t 30% done. The staff said that their vision for the episode was 30% done. The actual production for the episode is closer to 70-80% done (my personal guess but it’s still bad). If the vision for the episode was 100% done then the Sukuna vs Mahoraga fight would’ve been much more crazier and insane since there are so many creative minds that worked on this.
Yes! Good clarifications.
Another well put together video. Great work
Thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed it. 😊
Thanks for this amazing breakdown! I hope that animators at MAPPA can find a new place to work.
You're very welcome! Thank you for watching. And yeah, at the very least, I hope they can take some time off and get to go see their families, lol.
I hope you know that you who have put this video together and uploaded it during another turbulent month for seasonal anime did wonders for the wider general audience who some are ignorant to the landscape of professional animation.
In addition to that, I look forward to and hope that you'll be able to cover the following topics that you've mentioned throughout this video, such as: "how production committees work" and "the western side of the coin that is the animation industry."
I like to think that keeping those two broader topics in mind will allow your viewers to not only be educated, but informed on the horizon of what the business and professional aspect of being an animator (of any medium) and how it affects them as employed workers and artists.
Thank you so much! I'm glad you enjoyed the content. And yes!! I mostly want to learn about those subjects myself, but I do enjoy sharing what I've learned with others who enjoy animation themselves. It's a medium that I'm happy so many people care about. Thank you for watching, and for your suggestions!
eyyy new upload from one of my favorite video essayist
LET'S GOOOO Haha, thank you for watching!!
It's even more depressing with the fact that there is A COUPLE GROUP of people that either don't care about this problem or even outright support this kind of behavior just because "the anime looks good"
Yeah, that is pretty messed up. 😬 Thank you for watching!
Thanks for a very informative, Drew, and sorry for my delay in watching it! 😅
I'd heard bits and pieces about the MAPPA situation, but getting the full scope of it (or at least what's been publicized thus far) makes me even more sad that MAPPA enforces these impossible deadlines and expects incredible results. I don't quite understand how companies can treat their own employees in such a callous way. I mean, setting aside the human aspect of it, wouldn't it just make more sense to treat your staff fairly to get better results? I guess it's just what you said, that MAPPA doesn't care if their animators quit since there'll always be younger animators looking to get their foot in the door at any cost, but it's still such a warped way of running a business.
Anyway, thanks again, Drew, and I hope all is well, my friend!
Thanks for watching, Henry, and no worries! Yeah, you would think that making your workers happy and treating them well would boost productivity, but apparently not. It's such a crazy scenario, I still can't quite believe it really happened.
@@DrewMalou Thank you, Drew! Yeah, I can't quite believe it myself: it's just so counter-intuitive, it just doesn't make any sense!
Quitting isn’t the solution: striking IS. The studio won’t be able to hire fresh-faced new recruits as scabs if they have to get them past a picket line (though I’m not an expert on Japanese labour law). If animators don’t unionize there’s no way this situation will ever change just out of the goodwill of the managements’ hearts
From what I understand, the animation industry relies heavily upon freelance artists, so unionizing becomes almost impossible. Market forces might be the only thing that can stop the abuse. Consumers getting educated and making the conscious decisions to not purchase this company's product. The problem with that strategy is that it's difficult to get viewers to care, and if you can succeed, you inevitably hurt the animators with that course of action...
Really interesting. It would be great to quote sources for the information so we can follow up on specific points.
Sources are linked in the video's description if you want to explore further! Thanks for watching.
Jjk zero was done in 4 months??? 🤯 damn thats insane that quality was magnificent 💥💯🔥
Its a shame we didnt get see the full potential of season 2
I know! It blows my mind. JJK0 was crazy good quality-wise. Thanks for watching!
One of the greatest video productions ever made on the anime and animation/writing situation going on in the world at the moment. You are doing God's work. Thank you and you are doing great.
Hahaha, well, I'm not sure about that, but I am so glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for the kind words! 👍
The vid being 10:01 I thought it would be full of time-wasting stretch and empty information but it was very good, concise and well thought out for us to follow ; I see respect in your work fella I wish you the best.
Haha, well thank you! I personally hate fluff and filler, so I try to be as concise as possible, and I'm glad you felt that. Thank you for the well wishes, and for watching!
What’s sad is that nobody gives a f. Consumers will keep on buying the projects, like the csm movie, and don’t care. It happened with solo leveling with the creating dying and with roxana with the artist losing her baby and people still buying the manhwa
Oh dang, I hadn't heard about that! That's crazy.
As a fellow 2D animator and huge fan of their work, the animators at Mappa deserve:
⬆️higher wages⬆️
and
⬅️longer deadlines ➡️
Here's hoping they get the work life balance they deserve ❤
That would be so amazing! I hope they get these as well. Thank you for watching!
Great video 👍
Thank you so much!
All of this has kind of soured the taste of Anime for me. I don't even really want to watch new shows and I only really do because my wife still likes them. The spectacle and what the medium has come to represent is just insane and unsustainable. The Sukuna vs mahoraga fight, while spectacular and beautiful, isn't worth the exploitation that it takes to make. Anime is headed towards a medium where every weekly episode has to have the production values of a blockbuster film, and I just don't need that or want that.
Yeah, it's really sad to see. We have something similar in the West, where if live action shows don't have feature film grade special effects, it's written off as cheesy and lame. This unfortunately means that only large studios can afford to make large scale shows and films, and so the creativity gets stifled somewhat. Animation is crazy expensive to produce, so only larger studios can keep making it (especially at this quality) and you just end up in this vicious cycle. It's unfortunate, but I thank you for watching and sharing your thoughts!
Drew spitting bars with this video
LOL, thanks bro! 🙏🙏🙏
Apparently I've heard that in the JJK Season 2 DVD release, they'll add extra scenes for the Sukuna vs Mahoraga fight that they left out.
Dang, sorry I missed this comment, but yes! I made a video about what they added to that fight if you haven't seen it already: czcams.com/video/f-1ZH2AHQ8c/video.html
7:49 if this mans eyes dont tell a dark tale, I don't know what does.
I knooooow!! 😭 Watching that video was tough.
Let’s be honest if people knew about this I don’t think they’d care and just keep watching whatever mappa puts out lol.
True. It's hard not supporting MAPPA though, because you want to show appreciation to the animators, but then you end up supporting upper management as well, which created these conditions. It's a tough problem. Anyways, thanks for watching!
I always feel so powerless in these situations. Isn't there anything we can do for the animators? I love the shows but knowing people suffer because of it makes it morally a bit more difficult to watch
I agree! Unfortunately, there isn't a great way to support the animators without supporting the studio. If we boycotted MAPPA the animators could lose their jobs, so there's not a great way for us to help, unfortunately.
Its not worth making them suffer and all, but damn gotta give them credit. Those are S tier animations. Never seen such good animations, and so consistently
True! They are insane animators. It must be exhausting constantly pumping out bangers, lol. Thanks for watching!
With the recents strikes like sag-aftra and UAW having mostly success, I hope some animators in japan saw those and gain enough courage (not to mention how much harder it is to pull of in a country that heavily leans into collectivism) to take action for the better
Yeah, that would be cool to see!! Hopefully one day, things will get better for these animators!
The idea that a committee should arbitrarily set by a "deadline" before even contracting a studio to see what is available and/or possible is ridiculous.
It would be like saying "this patient will be treated in 2 hours", before going to check what the disease even is.
Haha, well, from what I understand, they have a pretty good notion as to how long shows take to produce. There are industry standards that have been established. It's like if you got cancer, depending on the type and severity, your treatments and options are pretty well mapped out at this point. It's just certain studios take on more shows than they should, and that brings on the crunch.
If you look at the dates for JJK seasons (including season 3) from beginning it’s honestly insane JJK S2 came out only a year after S1 with a crunch and they managed to achieve noticeably impressive animation like even in the first episode I noticed the huge difference in production it felt like a movie but with all that happened it caused the next season to come out mid to late 2025 which is 3 years after S2 even ended which is crazy we could’ve already gotten S3 a better mahoraga fight and so much more if they just didn’t crunch so hard I hope they change CEO’s and only work on maximum 2 shows at the same time
Yeah, that would be awesome if they did that! And yes, their schedule was insane. I'm honestly impressed they didn't have more issues than they did with a workload like that!
I remember news outlets that jjk season 2 was gonna be canceled but I mention alot that MAPPA can just hire new people. The cycle will continue but I wish one day MAPPA can have a change of heart and break that cycle
Me too! And even if all of the animators were to quit, I think MAPPA is so big now, that they could just get an all new staff and continue the cycle. It's sad, but thank you for watching!
On the plus side, being a premier anime studio with a lot of work they should in theory be able to afford to hire more people now to help resolve some of these issues now. Don't know how that's gonna work out with all the bad press though
True, but keep in mind, that's going to eat into the company's profit margins. Not sure the upper management would be okay with that, so the cycle is likely to continue. 💀💀💀
I sincerely hope that things do improve, though! Thank you for watching!
@@DrewMalou unfortunately it's just a theory, a film theory
Yeah, that's true. I hope it becomes real, though!
4 months is literally insane 😭
I know, I feel so bad for those animators!!
cant wait for jujutsu kaisen season 2 remake for sukuna vs mahoraga in the future, just hope they will be able to find a resolution
That would be so amazing! I honestly hope they can redo this fight to the utmost of their abilities, it would be so sick!
Dorohedoro Season 2 just got announced. I hope this hot mess doesn't affect it. 😒😒
Same!! 😬 Thanks for watching!
Was not expecting the dbfz trunks theme
Bahahaha, yeahhhh!! The DBFZ ost goes so hard! lol
When I first saw the episode It was a bit different and kind of disappointing but when I know the hardwork of the animators then I must say that whatever they made was amazing in such a short time 🫡
It really speaks towards the talents of the animators when they can take something that is not even half complete and STILL make it look that damn good.
True!! It's a crazy sight to behold, and I'm so glad I got to experience it, I just hope that they get some rest! Lol
Your videos are too high quality for them to be from someone with only 25k subs, incredible editing and voice over as well! Btw it'll be great if you can check out the animation from Fog Hill of Five Elements, its criminally underrated.
Thank you so much, that's very kind of you! 💖 And yes, I haven't seen it yet, but I have heard some amazing things! Chinese animation has been popping off recently! Thanks for the kind words, and the suggestion!
DAMN THIS IS A GOOD VIDEO
THANK YOU SO MUCH!! 🙏
@@DrewMalou no problem king
Are OST's you used non copyright? Can I use them on my animation streams?
The movie was made in FOUR MONTHS?!?! my worst estimate was six months for God's sake!!!
Dang! Even six months would have been crazy, haha. Thank you for watching!
@@DrewMalou thank you for the video.
I’m rly worried for the animators I feel like someone might collapse from work. Or smth bigger will be happening
Bro I got a JJK S2 Ad right before the video started
Ohhhhh noooo!! Lol 💀
It really sucks knowing this. I obviously love the work they've done but this isn't how things should be. People don't know the work and effort animators put into a single episode. Hell I don't, it takes me an hour to perfect my lil doodles I make during college. I think people need more patience. Our favorite mangas being made into shows could be so much more if workers were given the time they needed. The animator's who work on the shows deserve the time they need to avoid burnout and inevitably striking against the company.
P.S after seeing the end I might check that out. I've had a deep down wish to be able to animate the lil fight scenes that appear in my head when I listen to music. My stick nodes app cannot handle all the frames I put into it and often crash lmao
Yeah, it's such a bummer. I wish the demand for high quality animation didn't overpower the animators' need to live normal, healthy lives.
@@DrewMalou Honestly, fans and companies should have the patience to wait out the time needed to produce the animation. The people demanding the product have an entire life to wait for an animation and still bitch when it comes out rushed
What do you think about the official news that episode 17 of JJK will be getting additional cuts added for the blu ray release?
Sorry I missed this!! But yes, I was so glad that they were going to do that! I definitely think it needed it, and as it turns out, I did a video about all of the changes that they made! Haha. If you're interested, you can watch it here: czcams.com/video/f-1ZH2AHQ8c/video.html
30% and still a banger ! dayum I wonder what 100% will it looks like
bruh it looked like ass wym??
Yeah, I like the rough animation, but it definitely has issues. I would have loved to see a completely finished fight. That would have been nuts!
loooool
@@tyrilius9732said that to 9,9 rating in imdb😂
I think thankfully Contrail Studio is on their own it some sense
But they still seem to have Manabu Ohtsuka as their "representative director" 💀
www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2019-12-22/sunao-katabuchi-establishes-new-anime-company-contrail-to-make-full-length-anime-film/.154667
Was Mappa also under tight scheduling like this for older projects such as Dororo?
I believe they have been pretty slammed for a few years now, so it's highly likely. 😬
They need to pour their entire studio into JJK season 3 to make the Gojo vs. Sukuna fight the Sukuna vs Mahoraga fight what it was meant to be (And yes I mean actual good working hours)
Yes!! That would be so sick. I hope they get some normal working hours.... 😬
Not to add to the depressing subject, but I’m a 3D artist and VFX artist and have worked in animation, games, and live-action films. I’m absolutely shot and I’ve only been in the industry for a few years. Art and artists will always seem to be dispensable to corps, at least from what i see. But, another great issue is the changing of technology. EVERYDAY I make something in a particular software or whatever, it becomes obsolete the NEXT DAY. I can’t keep up with the demand of ‘the best’ and ‘most modern’ tech. There’s only so much we can learn and produce, under deadlines.
I no longer wish to work in this industry and am actively looking for a job in any other industry. These past few years did it in for me, id rather be happy doing something mundane then depressed doing something i love.
Nothing but absolute respect for anime animators and animators of all kinds. That JJK episode was 30% done?!? My a$$, it looked and felt like nothing ive ever seen. It was a complete piece of cinema to me…❤
Man, that's so rough to hear. Much respect to you for looking to get out of the grind! It does seem like artists are expendable these days, which is a horrible thing to say. Thanks for watching!
30% of vision the eps itself was 80-85%done
I’m curious. If the animators left in solidarity and made their own studio, wouldn’t their clients follow? Due to massive media publicity
Two big directors left MAPPA and did just that, but the brand name of MAPPA is a powerful thing, if that makes sense!
8:12 His eyes..shows much..
Yeah... That video is crazy. Everyone looks so tired throughout the whole thing, lol.
Mappa studios make Amazon look like an mini lego factory
The fact that only 30% was aired but it was STILL fucking GODLY
Well, apparently it was "30% of the artistic vision" that was completed, but that guy also deleted that tweet. So, most people were guestimating that the episode was 75-85% complete.... But anyways, I still think it's an insane accomplishment for those animators. Thank you for watching!
@@DrewMalou it was a pleasure. I'm glad I got to see this since I cannot remember my twitter user name, thank you for making the video
I too realized all the projects Mappa took on, im still waiting on one-punch man to get their next season, but they started to develop the quantity over quality mindset. They standout for the wrong reasons, I couldn't understand the choreography in the thunder clap episode, and overall enjoyed the manga better. They're under so much pressure, I just hope it gets better for them
MAPPA isn’t the studio making One Punch Man season 3
@@cwega2463 they dropped it?
@@x3xicex3x they were never working on it lmao. that was a twitter rumour that people ran with that was confirmed not to be true like last year.
@@cwega2463 ouch, another reason to stay off social media, thank you for the clear up
You know, I hadn't considered comparing the manga to the anime for this fight. That would be really interesting to see how the adaptation differs. And I too hope that the work culture gets better at MAPPA as well! Thank you for watching!
Yeah NGL I could def tell it was a bit incomplete than the others with some scenes of mahoraga being lower detailed and one scene had only circles of mahoragas lower chest
Yeah, me too. It was sad to see, but I still got insanely hyped! Even if it wasn't fully complete, it still blew me away, which is insane in my opinion, haha. Thank you for watching!
@@DrewMalou yeah but NGL if sukuna killed mahoraga and gojo did as well and he can adapt to all phenomena imagine if mahoraga adapted to death
That would be NUTS lol
@@DrewMalou still a possibility
So ..things like this happenning in animation and games vs what happens in more unionized industries ....yeah ...theres a pretty stark reminder that collective action works.
I started to dig into why there are no animation unions, and it's a pretty difficult industry to unionize. One of the biggest reasons is because so many artists work as freelancers, instead of full time salaried employees! I want to do a longer video in the future about this, but I'm not sure when I'll get to it, haha.
That fight was so confusing 😕
I didn't see anything
It was a 0.8s for a picture
3/10 fight
I hope the workers will be OK though
Yeah, there are some really rough moments in the fight, for sure. It's such a shame. Thanks for watching!
Lol eyes issue
its disgusting how the CEO lets this happen to MAPPA. he ought to be taken down. and its also disheartening to see the animators let themselves get treated like this.
Yes, but one thing I didn't touch on, is that this is pretty common practice in Japanese work culture. It is often viewed as dishonorable to leave the studio to find better work conditions, because you leave them in a bad position without you. It's a difficult problem to solve, and isn't really the fault of the animators.
are there any union worker for animator in japan?
There are, but a large portion of the animation industry is freelance based, so it makes it very difficult to form cohesive unions.
Welcome to common work practices in Japan and China, been there and seen that.
Haha, trueeee.
Aren't NDAs illegal in pretty much any country if they break said countries laws?
I don't entirely know... but I'm pretty sure if you reach a settlement instead of going to court and you take a cash payment in order for your silence on a particular subject (even if that subject were illegal), you can get sued if you speak about it. But it has to be voluntary, you can't force someone to sign one.
@@DrewMalou
Yea in that case the NDA would hold up (unless it's silencing you from speaking about things they criminally did).
Yeah! Except that all of this could be totally different legally in Japan.
Im afraid we would get another "berserk , tokyo ghoul or seven deadly sins " movement if this continues
Ooooof, that would be rough! 💀
And like Icarus searching for greatness… I hope better studios will adopt these great animators eventually.
Yes!! Me too. I hope they find a great home that treats them better!
i suspect there must be a "Yes man" somewhere in the management
That's what I'm thinking! But Japanese culture is also pretty hard and strict like this, so unfortunately, it's really not that far outside of the norm in Japan.
jujutsu kaizen and attack on titan are produced by completely different teams with very little staff overlap. also its implied that jjk 0 was produced in 4 months. there is no official evidence that that's the case. also the person that said it was 30% complete deleted his tweet.
That is good to know! The source that I found talked about the JJK and CM overlap, and only mentioned that MAPPA picking up AoT S4 was the catalyst that started this domino-effect of crunch, so that's an oversight by me. However, there is a tweet by Sota Shigetsu stating that he completed the JJK0 movie in 4 months.
twitter.com/Hone_honeHONE/status/1723402102884773930
As to the guy who deleted his tweet, that doesn't mean it isn't true, lol. As I stated, they had their staff sign NDA's, so this could have been seen to be defamation on his part, which could be why he deleted it. I can definitely tell the episode is far less refined than others, so I'm not sure why this statement is so controversial. Is it because he tried to quantify it, and his figure was too low? I don't really understand, but if I'm missing something, please let me know!
The human cost of the art must be paid for, those who profited are indebted to those they made crunch.
I agree!
AOT and JJK have different teams working on them(hayashi team and seshimo team respectively)their production did not effect eachother
BUT god of highschool did as it was also produced by the seshimo team and aired in summer 2020 and the director Sunghoo Park of both jjk and goh did not appear in first 6 eps of jjk as he was busy with goh and rest is accurate
Good to know! The sources that I found mentioned that MAPPA taking on AoT was the catalyst that started the studio-wide crunch domino effect. They mentioned JJK and CM having heavy overlap, but didn't mention overlap on the AoT team, so that is an oversight by me. Thanks for clarifying, but I'm curious, where did you come by the production team information? I did do some searching, but it was difficult to find anything concrete anywhere.
my eye's all the time on fight can't even a single he says soorry man
I'm sorry.... Or thank you?.... I'm not quite sure.... Thanks for watching, though!
I don't know my everybody caps in Thinderclap part 2. It was very clearly not meeting it's potential. Didn't not look well put together at all.
JJK0 done in 4 months, and it's quality is far far above anything in S2 jjk
True! It is very different visually and stylistically, and yes, jjk0 looked amazing. Thanks for watching!
Because its peak
😢
😭 Indeed! Thank you for watching.
Mappa has the chance to be to the 2020s what Studio Bones was for the 2000s/2010s. A studio adapting several popular mangas at a high value that get remembered for years and setting new standards for shonen works. So it's a true shame that this situation overshadows this opportunity
It really is. I hope they are remembered for their work, and not for these dark moments like their difficult work conditions!
8:45 They will for the Blueray release like almost every anime that I know. Just look at Dragonball when it was Aired and how it looks on BD.
Same for AoT.
That would be sweet!
Btw something you got completely wrong was that AoT and JJK have completely different pipeline meaning different teams are in charge of different series, the actual series that cut into JJK season one production was God of high school which was still airing while JJK was under production aside from that you got it right
Yeah, that was an oversight on my part. The article I sourced made it seem like AoT compounded the issue across the entire studio. Thanks for clearing that up!
@@DrewMalou yeah I don’t blame you most people don’t even know half of the info you explained in the video so getting the show that hinder the seshimo pipeline isn’t that big of a deal especially when the rest was spot on
Haha, yeah. I knew that studios usually have multiple teams working on different shows, but was just under the impression that AoT and JJK were the same team. Where do you find out which animation team works on which project? Is there a website that compiles all of that? Or is it just following the directors and studios on social media?
@@DrewMalou I read sakuga blog which is a site connected to sakugabooru which is where users archive animators work and compile them, but sakuga blog has reported on the production of many anime by interviews the anime staff give in Japanese media and publish production notes for series giving the basic run down, but now it is a mix of reading and also following animators and people in the industry on twitter or other Japanese social media
Got you! Thanks for the info. I love Sakugabooru, but I haven't checked out their blog, so I'll do that. And using Japanese social media is a fantastic idea! Haha. Thanks again!
Id maddening that its pretty much the same as it was 30 years ago. Poor pay and benifits for outstanding work. Working people death and even not paying respect. Its not that hard for a company to pitch a realistic schedule and support their staff. WE CAN WAIT!
I know! It's really not that difficult. I don't see why more companies don't do this.
That movie with that quality in 4 months 💀 RIP
For real, it's nuts. Those animators go hard!
1-AoT and JJK where done by different teams entirely, their productions didn't overlap.
2-The 30% number was entirely made up and is only an exageration by a member of the staff.
3- MAPPA offers one of the highest stablished salaries for animators, with a comparably small compulsory extra hours when compared to TOEI for example.
4- Manabu may be pushing the machine too hard, but he is arguably one of the best business mans in the industry, and his ambitions and visions for MAPPA have given only positive results for the studio.
5- The situation is shit everywhere except for SOME ufotable productions (KNY has a quite rushed production cycle when compared to other ufotable shows, and even more now with the ending getting closer) and kyoani, animators just speak against MAPPA because they know that it will get traction on social media.
6- This are professional artists, they move on from one project to another with some rest but not as much. It's a nine to five job for them, and we must traat them like they are doing that.
This is good clarifying information! Thank you for sharing. Where did you get the information on what MAPPA offers as salaries? (especially in comparison to other studios). I've looked for information like that, but unfortunately haven't had much luck finding anything.
@@DrewMalou Where did you get the information on what MAPPA offers as salaries?
outta his ass
@@DrewMalou one of the top articles that shows up in the results when you google the highest paying animation studio in Japan lists mappa as the second highest paying anime studio in Japan, first being toei in their article. The articles is by a site called "anime senpai" And credits crunchyroll as the source. Also note the article was published back in 1st march of 2022. Also worth noting mappa pays significantly higher than the 3rd spot the article ranks which is kyoto animation. Although unsurprisingly What toei and mappa pay is definitely still incredibly low for what the staff and animators deserve for their stunning work.
If MAPPA ruins One Punch Man season 3, it will be their end.
I believe J.C. Staff is doing season 3!
incredibly untrue and uninformed video. JJK and AOT are produced by two seperate teams so those two shows being taken up had nothing to do with each other.
MAPPA also didn’t pick up AOT until early 2020, around January or February, maybe later.
JJK season 1 had a decent production schedule, but it was made worse due to the team basically being split in half to simulatiously work on that and The God of High School season 1. that’s why both shows are directed by the same director, and have identical staff lists.
AOT was done by the Dorohedoro team led by Hayashi (referred to as the Hayashi team) which has its own in house animators just under the MAPPA banner. MAPPA is a giant studio with like 4 separate production teams at once (now that the old Vinland Saga production team from WIT was able to independently work on Vinaland Saga season 2 with some assistance from MAPPA and the Hayashi team). AOT season 4 was rushed because the production committee for AOT (Pony Canyon, Kodansha, and Prod IG) set the December 2020 deadline years before. that’s why WIT dropped out. MAPPA picked it up and gave it Hayashi’s team as they were the only studio willing to do that release date. AOT’s production schedule only got better after that as MAPPA joined the production committee and Hayashi begged for more time for season 4 part 2 and the two special episodes to end the show.
JJK season 2’s production was meant to be 2 years. MAPPA was given 2 years by the production committee. from mid 2021 to mid 2023. they spent the first few months of that making Movie 0 and rushed it out on about a 3 month schedule. the immediately the JJK team was made to work on Chainsaw Man as at that point, it was announced in december 2020, had a pre-made PV in mid 2021 and MAPPA hadn’t started production on it yet. then they worked on it from late 2021 to October 2022 when episode 1 came out. by the time Chainsaw Man episode 9 or 10 was releasing, in early January and late december, the team was split again to start immediate work on JJK season 2. so from starting work in January, JJK season 2 only had a 6 month production schedule before episode 1 released. a terrible schedule.
just wanted to educate you since you seemed to not even know the difference in the production teams.
and some other things you got wrong. the 30% wasn’t said by the episode director. it was an Animation Director, who’s job is to correct frames. they aren’t saying the episode is only 30% complete, if so the episode would literally be black and white Genga. he means he was only able to correct 30% of the amount of frames he normally would for an episode of that scale. the 30% isn’t about a the amount of frames of insane fights in an episode, because JJK season 2 literally has more and better fights than season one, and has higher frame counts (there’s a reason episode 16 and 17 are called some of the best animated episodes in anime period). it’s purely about the corrections and vision of the episode. not the final product.
you should probably just watch some videos on MAPPA’s production schedule and process, and JJK and AOT’s specific productions. Probably Pretentious and Manko Man made great videos on it.
Thanks for clarifying!
How the fuck did they made the JJK movie in 4 months. The Levi vs Beast Titan from season 3 took WIT 3 months to animate
Yeah, it's inhuman, I have no idea how they did it, lol. Thank you for watching!
"more good animators and staff"
Mans speaking truth rn
Ty, ty. 🙏
Edit Contents: Paragraph Spacings
There are multiple facets to this case, and most are, understandably, fixated on the sympathetic aspect concerning the disproportionate workload of the animators relative to their monetary compensation.
I, however, was instantaneously unconsciously fixated on the quantitative and qualitative aspects of the animators' workload output, i.e., the productivity of the animators was staggeringly high.
As a person who infrequently struggles with sustaining productivity, I am engrossingly mesmerized and inspired to discover how it was humanly possible to generate such outputs in less than half of the scheduled industry-wide normal production duration.
For the record, I do acknowledge and share the sentiment of feeling sorry for the disproportionate, unjust compensations allotted to the animators; however, the splendor of creating high-tier outputs with stringent deadlines is an astoundingly awe-inspiring discovery for me, such that it underwhelms the perception of the magnitude of the negative, unconducive emanations (of the working conditions) and ambience (of the company) that the animators are subjected to.
Case in point: There are multitudes of productivity-boost-oriented resources online, and if any rational, avid anime viewer (who is aware of the strenuous workload and deadlines) ever gains the contact details of the animators (discussed), the most irrational act that will ever be done is not "complain about animation quality," but "complain about animators' productivity and consequently suggest productivity-boost-oriented resources."
It's unfortunate that most people don't understand the conditions surrounding the animators that makes quality animation like this possible, and when it seems a bit "off", they complain. I had hoped to inform people about why these occurrences happen, and tried to educate them about the circumstances that lead to this particular example. Hopefully people don't criticize the animators after this, but I still think that some people always will. Thanks for sharing your thoughts on the matter!
I don't know much about animation but from what I’ve heard it a minimum of 80% of it should be done before the actual show starts airing have them finish just before release time seems ridiculous
Yeah, it is definitely ridiculous!
Sounds like super bad management
Yeah... Or really great management depending on how you look at it, unfortunately. I feel so bad for those animators!
Animators should collectively deny working in Mappa now before it becomes the industry norm. What lies ahead is similar work load in other companies because they need to stay afloat, just to keep it competitive. If anyone has the discipline to do it, it's the Japanese animators. It's the worst treatment because if a show is rushed due to crunch the blame always falls on the animators, just perfectly convenient for the greedy ceos over-committing to projects.
Yeah, it is a rough situation for sure. I hope things change for the better! These animators definitely deserve better treatment. Thank you for watching!