Fixing an unfixable subscribers bike, This Kawasaki Z1300 is very broken 😕
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- čas přidán 4. 04. 2024
- The customer has driven 5 hours to get this 6 Cylinder Kawasaki Z1300 fixed. it's going to be a massive job!
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/ superbikesurgerytv - Auta a dopravní prostředky
What a pleasure to have a customer that can talk so knowledgably about the problem as this man.
I know I’m a “Neanderthal” but having spent several years in the Australian outback chasing stock, simple, non-electronic bikes (points, coil and carby) can usually be fixed with the Manufacturers tool kit and a bit of Emery paper. Things are just too complicated these days. I admire your tenacity in dealing with all the electronics etc in your videos.
Bet the owner felt relieved about knowing there “is” a problem.
And yes, an absolutely beautiful example of a KZ-1300👍🏼
Table spoon of CRC--WD40 in each cylinder and let it sit 24 hrs turn it over with the back wheel a couple of times then more CRC and wait again. Its worth a try before stripping the motor.
Just a comment:
I have vorked on these bikes for 30 years by now and the wear and tear on this bike is nothing compered what i worked with.
And the thing is that they all STARTED and run with no problems.
My worst case was with an B2 that had more than 2 millimeters ringgap....but still started with no problems at all, (just burned a halfliter of oil in 30 minutes).
BUT...a very common problem who i think is the problem in this case is that Kawas original camchaintensioner is a real pease of shit/crap!!
It is not a case IF the tensioner will malfunction, it is just when!
This is VERY common!! The thing is that the (extremly stupid kawa made) tensioner trying to grip a oiled steel bar with oiled steelballs! There are NO geras whatever to hold the tnesioner in plase!! Just oiled steelballs to cram a steel oiled rod!
Kawa saw this idiocy and introduced the same shit, just with an oilline that added more oil in the back of the tensioner!! (The thought the oilpressure would stop and 1300 engine that would like to backfire!)
That did not work either!!!
The conclusion on these motors are just the fact that they always jump the chain a halftooth or one tooth so no damage are normally happening to the engine. (More than one tooth always brake the engine but that always never happens),
As your bike has low compression on several cylinders I am sure that that is the case here. Check the camchain, readjust it and by an aftermarket camchaintensioner!
That is just with an passus: There are more stupid things Kawa constructed this engine with....as camchain rollersprockets in PLASTIC!
So this engine cant hold the pressure of many of the aftermarket tensioners!
So for many years my solution is that i strip the original tensioner and welds a couple of millimeter of aluminum in the back of it and then drill a hole in it and install a m5 or 6 bolt in the back with a locknut.
Just then install it as original tensioner, start the bike, let it idle and the with you fingers just turn the bolt till it seats to the tensioner, lock the locknut.
Do this in the spring every year and you are ok!
(As i said, im pretty sure this have nothing to do with compression regarding to the cylindres and so on....that is normally impossibbly on these engines, BUT a camchain hopped a tooth WILL get you the result you got!)
Hope this would help!
Hallen
(z1300@hotmail.com)
That's definitely thé issue voyager describes. Wrong timing due to malfunction of camchain tensioner. That's why every single cylinder is concerned to the same degree. Hope this is now fixed
Always good job
Fantastic bike, great video. Shame the guy couldn't see the wood for the trees. That's diagnostics for you.....fresh pair of eyes is invaluable.
Basic test first before diving in. Easy to say I know, but we've all fallen into traps like this at some point. Bet the owner is glad he got a fresh pair of eyes on that problem and saved his head ache
My friend had the carbureted version of this bike.What a Giant Superbike Beast!! He would show up at the Superbike Meets and people immediately gave huge respect.1986 North Texas!!!
This wasn't a bike you'd forget either, I rode a Kz1000 at the time I saw one in N.Texas as well but it had 3 Carb's on her,
1 Carb for each 2 cylinders. 3 Carb's for the 6 cylinders & I want to say it was 84-85 but that's the only one I ever saw.
Go figure..... ride safe
My mate had a honda rs250 which he purchased and rode about 60 miles home with no issues,parked it up when he got in,had a cuppa and went out to fire it up again as the neighbours kid liked bikes. Short story,it didn't start! Gave it to me to fix and compression wise I could turn it over with my hand on the kickstart! Head off a quick valve job and when back together could stand on the kickstart,two prods and fired up sweet,ran like a dream(lol pun there!)took for a nice new MOT and flew through(had about a week left so he asked me to do that as well)so watching you gave me a nice smile as I must be doing something right! Always enjoy your videos,certainly a knowledgeable chap,you don't get to where you are by winging it! 😅
Beautiful Bike. Definitely worth whatever time and money is invested in it. At least he brought it to an honest man. Newly subscribed. Greetings from Canada
Can you please film the owner's response when you tell him that flash looking Kwaka needs a rebuild. I reckon that he will be quite animated.
Having a geordie waffling at you about ground side switching 😂
Hadaway n Shite!
Jesus Christ, Jimmy Nail is doing my head in 😂
Yeah , I know . A Foreign language , errantly described as " English " .
...That`ll be his crocodile shoes`..
If i was your customer, would have had a nervous breakdown by now. Well done everyone
Great diagnostics, sometimes the simple things are missed!!
Always start with basics when diagnosing faults. Common mistakes some of my previous junior or senior field service engineers used to make. When they called to say they cant it working, i would say, did you start at the beginning, it went quiet on the other end of the phone.
Imagine driving 5 hours before checking the compression
@toolzandnewideas very good, but still check the basics. What an absolute merry go round they have ended up in.
Just a thought to save a lot of work and the customers bank balance how about filling the cylinders with two stroke fuel overnight turning the motor over slowly the next day hopefully the oil in this fuel may unstick the rings also a check of the shims for correct valve clearances to confirm all is good there too and with your fingers crossed and a bit of luck you might resurect this one with a bit of running then a change of oil and filter and everyone is happy worth a try ! saved me a few times on my own machines and you can then do a compression test after it's run a bit to confirm the outcome good or bad .
cheers .
Yea bit of a seal created with sitting all those years that gave it enough compression to start. Beautiful Bike, reminds me so much on my CB1300 Honda i used to own a few years ago. Great content, keep up the good work, Mike, Northern Ireland.
Beautiful bike, love to see more of it on your channel. Thanks for sharing.
Man what a beautiful bike, I love the older bikes they have such class and individuality, great job diagnosing this one so fast, I hope he let's you fix it in the winter so we could watch, I'd love to hear it run when you get it fixed.
Aaaahh, in case you didn’t know the UK is heading into summer 😂
Put some oil in the bores and 24 volts directly to the starter, start it up get it hot, can't make it any worse it may just recover.
Sounds like them guys are from my neck of the woods,,,but what an example of a machine..looks like it's just rolled off the production line,stunning.
Struggling to believe it was running one minute then not the next. One set of rings fair enough but all of them.. What they running in the tank.. No more nails? Look forward to the follow up video.
Shame, great machine hope you are doing the work on this beauty and we can watch it 👍
i worked for a (UK) bike shop that took a 'mint' z1300 carb model in, it started and ran ok but started to smoke as it warmed up, each bore was badly scored. I ended up ordering a set of oversized pistons and rings from Australia, got the barrels rebored locally and with new gaskets etc, built it back up - very fiddly job, after a full carb rebuild etc it actually ran really sweet - lots of time spent on this one so im assuming the shop lost out on this bike
Haddaway & shite. What a marvellous accent! Ive clearly watched too many of your videos recently, guys rattling off all the things hes done and im thinking 'check the compression' haha. 👍 learning a lot, great vids
Haddaway and Shite are famous solicitors in The Toon.
Mr. Abootman.
Wow!!! Just finished watching and just goes to show us all.."every days a school day".
You can't argue (I'm not I'm just adding to the comments) after a compression test then leak down test but all cylinders showing what looked like exactly the same readings suggests to me timing chain slipped, especially after it was running. I've owned four Z1300's over the decades, still love them.
I was thinking timing too since they all looked about the same psi. The odds of all 18 rings getting stuck overnight is insane.
He can take the cam cover off and easily check timing before pulling the heads.
Hopefully the owner will read the comments for suggestions.
@@mrbmp09 But the leak down test proves its passing the rings into crankcase , if it were valve timing leaving valve open on compression stroke it would be passing air out exhaust or inlet ports . Another way to prove its passing rings add some oil into cylinder as it can make temporary seal and restore some compression
4. Do you still own one. They are something special. Smooth torque just pours on as you wind the throttle on. Miles of smiles.
@@donaldwayne4219 No they were sold.
I remember when they released this bike and it it's still an impressive machine. What a shame you don't have the time, it would of been great to watch the rebuild👍
Bit sad it being in such nice condition. But bikes like that that have sat best part of 30yrs that have no form of dehumidification, well rust in the bores sealed the rings long enough to get it to start but then the sealing basically went out the exhaust and no compression was the result. I did a GSXR 1100 up a few years ago. Looked great, hardly a mark on it, only had about 45,000klms on the clock, thought it was a good buy. Got it home, new battery, plugs, filters and oil, cleaned the carbs. Hit the button and nothing, popped and farted but wouldn't run. Did all the other things and mucked about for two weeks before I did the compression test. Yeh new rings and hone later and it started.
" there from a datsun 240z there mr bushi injectors " ayeeee jakkieee
😅
lmao
I was thinking," who the feck is Mr Bushy?"
@@davidsadler7047 me too!
Gorgeous bike, I've always wanted one of these!
No compression on all cylinder indicate to me dry bores or even a timing chain problem. It is almost unheard of to have all 6 cylinders with very little compression. It would have been useful to do a wet compression test as well which would serve two purposes. It would confirm that the problem is pistons or bores and it would possibly seal the rings and restore the compression. If there is no difference in the compression, I'd look at the valve timing.
Love your work methods Jim 👍🏻😎
Sounded like a real head scratcher at first I was thimking cams good old compression test .Great video and very interesting
Such a great example of Japanese history !
Should take it to Alan Millyard he’ll sort it out.
I have the exact same bike (had it for 25 years now) & I did think it sounded odd on the starter lol
Fantastic diagnosis 👍
Great detective work man 🤔good video thanks
Hi thanks for that video I learned a lot the compreshen test trik with the paper and compressor is mind blown .I was convinced it was the CPU 👊👍👍👍
Brilliant channel always enjoy your videos 👍🏻👍🏻🇬🇧
Your compressor has got it in for you 😂- it has pure comedy timing - beautiful bike and we all learning big lessons on the value of early compression testing as the foundation of fault finding -great video
It would help if Jim switched off the compressor BEFORE filming 😅
I suppose any fuel that was injected just got pushed past the rings into the sump? A sniff at the oil filler would reveal rather than the smell of neat fuel at the silencers. As you say though go through the basics Fuel, Spark (present and the right time). Still nothing check for compression.
You are the oracle of bikes 🤬👍brilliant
Brilliant job, Jim. Good to see you practicing what you preach 😜
I did a rebuild on one in my workshop, the owner had bought it from a dealership that sold it as "restored". Like this one looked fab, however non runner, turned out piston rings were too small and there was sod all compression.
Or if you think it's not getting fuel ,give it a shot of easy start into the intake, if it still won't fire you know it's not a fuel issue ! If it pops and bangs all over the place it's timing, if it doesn't do anything then its a mechanical fault, if you have air fire and fuel. Penetrative oil down the bores would of been a good idear before they ran it for the first time, might be worth a try now but probably to late, it will just end up in the sump. Smart move on your end, always check the basics first 👌
I felt that 'moment of realization' when the compression test showed so low. Nothing like that ' AHA! ' moment to clear all the murky doubts and questions while troubleshooting. Lovely bike, hopefully it will be back on the road someday. Cheers from Eastern Canada. 🇨🇦 Love the channel! 😃 Just one question, why is the throttle assembly upside down??
What a bike. Wow. Love it.
Great video, compression compression n compression, bloody lovely looking bike though 👍
How to Wrench has a awesome scope in his video, it's amazing!!
My TDM900 is doing very similar, swapped my ecu and a friends ran fine , tried fuel pump relay , changed fuel pump .....checked wiring ....yet if i spray fuel down intakes it fires up straight away !
Another 6 hour look at wiring today ......very tempted to put 850 carbs on the damm thing
😎👍😎
The guy did a lot to it ..hes very knowledgeable on this ..
Unfortunately hes got to tear it down..
Nice catch ..
Shark motorcycles Hereford used to have a lot of engine parts for these few years back, worth a shout if you need them.
Lovely bike - from a time when manufacturers had mad ideas and just went for it. When you found it had no compression I thought it might end up being every valve bent, or a disintegrated valve gear sprocket or something equally horrendous. Although it's a massive engine maybe stuck rings might be the lesser of many alternative evils. I think I'd try giving the pots a lengthy soak for a few days, then start it with a bit of assembly oil in the cylinders before taking it to bits. Worth a try?
Jim get the old man out , lets think straight .
Brilliant, who'd have thought after it ran.
Sorry you had to catch this, I wanted to watch you take her for a spin. That said, way back in the day I had a Kz1000 & I thought
my bike was, "All That"? Then I saw one of these beasts & it was a beast. I wanna say 1984 or right in there but seeing those
6 pipes out the motor was different to me. As much as I think I'd like one, I think I'll pass after seeing this. peace
When he was talking about chasing an electrical gremlin, he Sounded like me with half the issues I've been having with my 2009 Kawasaki z750... They have a sealed PCB relay box for the ignition, fuel pump, headlight and starter.... Absolute pain in the Gooch and ive recently had to bypass the 2nd relay in it to an external relay 🤦 definitely said compression as soon as you cranked it
I don't know these bikes but the rings didn't just ALL fail. I'd be looking at cam timing also.
He said it ran perfect...then 3 days later no compression an any cylinder?...Makes no sense at all.How did it all of a sudden overnight lose compression on all cylinders?You are saying because it sat so long but it didnt...It ran perfect just the other day.
Several times in my life, i ran into a problem with rings being Gumbed up and not sealing. If you squirt some oil in the cylinders. Helps get enough compression to get it to run. Just let it run and get hot. When up to temp. rev it through the rev range. Usually, will unstick the rings.
Haven’t seen one of these since 1990 Big Raaaymond in Glasgow
This is going to be a deep dive, cracking.
Who are you and what have you done with Jim? Zero wafflage gave the game away buddy. 😅 Sensational work yet again.
and people think you waffle. jesus christ. if he knows so much why doesnt he just bloody fix it.
Feel like I've just watched the whole series of Auf wiedersen in 10 minutes.
He’s gone as far as his (limited) knowledge can take him… that is WHY he’s got it at Superbike Surgery, coz he knows old mate will be able to fix it ffs!
What I learned a long time ago is never turn over an engine even by hand that's been standing a long time without plugs out and soaking the cylinders with wd40 or something similar even desel for at least few days then gingerly hand cranking and leaving a few more days before turning it over plugs still out after blowing out solution go for start up if all is well, it can un seize rings and cylinders 😊
great job lad keep up the good work next video please
I’m surprised that the owner didn’t realise that the compression is U/S , it sounds like there’s no compression when it turns over.!
To be fair he said it did start once but I was thinking it might be compression as he was explaining his past efforts...
that bike is super clean , bet the rings are stuck from it sitting
That'll do it! More compression in a roll of socks than the motor.
5 hrs to get too you...WOW!!!
Yup motors cooked , but restore it and do the easy things first before checking the basics .... is always a good idea . I do the same work as you , with the save vintage (cough ) machines and theres always a predictable customer formula .
Ahhh, ye ol' Z1300 six. I remember them well. Servicing one once, I decided to count the number of rocker cover bolts......... 42!
Scraping the cover gasket was not much fun! Cam tunnel as wide as the Grand Canyon! Hahahaha
Like you thought....I find stuck rings more common than worn out rings. Even occasionally broken or annealed rings (this more on air cooled aircraft engines).
But, if the are stuck, I find xylene to work best. From experience, not just speculation. It is a very strong organic solvent- dissolves more goop, and quicker. It is also, conveniently, not very volatile, so it will remain in cylinders a few days. I pour some in each cyl., let sit a few days, suck/blow it out, whup the crap out of the motor on a ride, change oil quick, then. Some oil in cylinders might be needed for the first start, to regain ring seal.
The wd40, etc. suggested elsewhere to free the rings is the right idea, but wd is really just light oil thinned with mineral spirits or naptha..nothing special as a solvent. Weak sauce.
The fact that it ran, then quit is odd. Maybe light rust on cylinder walls, scraped off and imbedded into old dry ring goop on that first run? Forming a rust/oil goop composite that is just sticky enough to inhibit ring function? Rings can be fickle. The xylene might do it. The cylinders, while not perfect, didn't look too bad.
I love these bikes. Was a mechanic at a Honda/yamaha dealer for years. Reluctantly borrowed one of these for a weekend trip and ended up loving it ..constantly running through gears, beating on it, racing friends who laughed at the big barge I borrowed. Sounds great, and is not slow at all. It was fun. Comfy, too. I mean the naked 1300- the voyager is just too big, but still nice.
Interesting vid, thanks
The cylinders look rusty but very high miles and scratched to hell. Tops of pistons look terrible also.
It would be an interesting rebuild video.
Is there going to be a follow up to this video?
That's good advice
``Put the valve gearing back in time`` ..
I kept expecting Biffa Bacon's mam to jump out and punch you in the face.
Fuel pressure regulator ?? Also experienced oxide on the the temp sensor threads , confusing the ECU...
Huh? This bike is carbureted, there is NO computer anywhere [if this is a 1980’s bike?… which I think it is?]
That engine looks like it’s been Vapour Blasted?
And was that some residual blasting media on the piston crown and cylinder wall in one of the borescope videos??
Wonder what the oil level is like, if all that fuel has ended up in the sump? did you do another test with oil in the bores? Lovely looking bike well worth doing. did not see that low comp coming either. Wish all customers had tried all those things and provided as much good info and help. Good set of guys. Above all GOOD CALL JIim!!!!!
Two questions please. (1) most importantly. Where would I get an exhaust for one of these ? And what would a genuine good condition model be worth ?
As soon as you cranked it I thought it sounded wrong... beautiful bike though
Hope you are getting paid by the hour. Great job Jim .
Did think it sounded wrong when you cranked it , I always listen for what you called galloping but it wasn't very pronounced on this one as all compressions are low ,but first on you tested was virtually non existent . Is It worth adding bit of oil to cylinders ? if its rings oil can give temporary seal and restore compression , still needs top end pulling down though , hopefully he gets away with cyl hone and re ring
I know its frowned upon but surprised he hadn't shot some easy start through airbox If he suspected injection fault ,as It should have fire up If It had only been injection fault
Nice diagnose 👍🏼 He should have done the compression test first and then looked further, but then he shouldn't have run so well after all, based on my opinion in advance. gr
Most likely it's rusted in the bores, that's then scraped off when it was started and ran, migrated into the rings and killed the compression. Hone and new rings if there's no teeth shed in the valve train.
I'm a few mins in and I ask myself why change the fuel pump and start messing about swapping stuff if the bike ran fine before the fuel pump was changed???
Oz looks well?
My guess, if it was running and suddenly it isn't. if it has a spark and fuel but no compression, the valve timing has jumped ?
Gotta love a bit of swaptronics...
well you can store a bike nice and dry to keep it good, but how do you store the engine safley engine
You can't, like with any other mechanical item, it needs to move. I don't get folk who won't use a vehicle, just get a poster of it instead.
Spray test first then spark test then compression, if that's ok then my mechanic gets a call 👍
Hi Jim, what the minimum compression should be in this bike, before you decide for a rebuild?
140 psi
When you have heard an engine with low compression cranking. It's a haunting sound and means the wallet is
going to be getting a beating.