Reviving Sound Blaster 1.5 and upgrading a rare SB2.0 clone
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- čas přidán 1. 02. 2024
- In this video I would like to go through a donation of sound cards, which I got recently. Among others there is the original Creative Sound Blaster 1.5 and multiple exiting clones. Sorry for my crippled voice, unfortunately I was sick as I was creating this video.
Music by Model Povedeniya
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/ necroware - Věda a technologie
Nice to see these pieces of computing history preserved. Clone cards were always the budget option, but there were plenty to choose from. Having them present today reminds me of those times.
It is always a good day when Necroware drops a new video!
Great repair video! Happy to see you back :)
Maybe it is a little bit outside of the scope of your channel, but I would like to see a detailed explanation of the different (at least the most common) sound systems. I keep getting lost about the particularities of each one, what makes each one special.
That is a great suggestion. Thank you, I'll try to prepare something.
@@necro_ware I know is very easy to give suggestions, what is hard is actually working on that. But if you find space to fit the content would amazing :D
I would appreciate this very much 👍 as well
Brilliant!!! A lovely restore and very nostalgic to watch -so many fond memories of the early cards in the Sound Blaster range!
I can't get enough of Monkey Island soundcard tests. I can listen to them for hours no end. thanks for the video.
Sehr schön, dass alles sauber funktioniert und ich freue mich schon auf die anderen Karten und deren Soundoutput bzw. Soundqualitäten.
Ich auch 😊
They’re not even trying to hide that they cloned the YMF262 by using the name LS262.
Thank you so much. Great experience! I've owned AWE 64 those time and that was a treasure. Naturally, my socket 7 pc looked then like an application to this sound card.
I was really surprised that all those 3 ICs are working even if they looks fake.
Indeed, that was unexpected.
I suppose these are salvaged chips and they might have had some custom makings originally.
I’d say they’re just remarked
They don't look fake at all, most ICs are re painted as they get very scratched during the long ewaste trip to China. But those were clearly real, you can tell by the shape and features of the chips. Some of the more rare Yamaha FM chips are now being faked with Ram chips but the 3812 isn't rare and are still all real in my experience (even recently)
Really enjoyed this overview, for the algo. Many thanks!
Excellent video as usual... your repairs are so informative and also pleasant to watch! Thank you for sharing!!!
its always a good day when you put out a new video.. cheers..
Nicely done, always about the quality of the content, not the quantity of the content :)
Yeah, sorry about the quantity. I'd love to make videos more often, but my volunteer activities eat most of my free time and there is also that unpleasant thing, which people call "a job" ;) At least currently it looks like I manage my time slightly better, so I'm going to make more videos.
No apologies required - i enjoy your videos as do many others. Can sympathise on the job front too @@necro_ware
Another excellent video Necroware - I love how your video's are all so clearly explained, very enjoyable! 😊
Great to see your subscriber number continuing to increase - justifiably so!
love your work :)
Yes! I had such a long week. Looking forward to this. Thank you Necroware
Wow. Hearing the Wolfenstein 3D menu music and going through those menus while you were troubleshooting the sound card......that *really* takes me back. I wasn't allowed to have a sound card ("the internal speaker works fine, and those are expensive") and I remember trying to find software emulators (on BBSes) and trying to get them to work. Good times
Great video! 🙂👍 Always awesome to see some of the original sound blaster cards back in action. I noticed this trend of relabeling ICs with newer date codes as well. I remember hearing that some suppliers have cut off dates for IC age or they won’t purchase them. No idea if this is true but I can’t think of any other reason they’d go to the trouble of doing this.
I have also only assumptions about that, but no definite explanation. On one hand, they might relabel the ICs to fake temperature limits and such things. There are always those letters in the end of the part name, which tell about temperature limits and what not. May be it's also because they remove the ICs from scrap and sometimes the condition is not good enough in their opinion, so they polish the surface and engrave it with something what is similar enough. Who knows?
Perfect timing just finished work. And now perfect relaxation with a necroware video. One of the best channels around.
Thank you again for the amazing content! I wish i had our skill with electronic repair.
Great video. Thanks for saving those sound cards!
It's good to see another video from you. I hope you and yours are doing well.
love the square wave sounds
Great to see you post a vid!
For the tiny screw - there are replacement screw kits on eBay for the Nintendo Switch with various types of tiny screws in it. I bought some of them and since then I almost always have all the tiny screws I need.
Your channel is so good, damn.
Thanks for video and explaining. Have few isa sb cards, will test.
I don't think I've ever seen a video from you I didn't like! Thank you for making such great content when you can 🙂
Hi! Thanks again for great and interesting video. I noticed that ESS on 3:35 is veri familiar to me, that is original ESS Miss Melody MF-1115, that I own once. There is no much data in internet about such interesting computer history things, and I always try to find all of I can, store and share knowledge. So, now you can wright its right name on package )))
good job you are good at fixing those motherboards and sound cards very smart man !!!
You uploaded just as I was pouring vinegar on my 286 rescues.
Nice! Good luck with your repair.
@@necro_ware Thank you. I have numerous boards with battery damage. I pick them up from the scrapyard. I am hopeful, but I can't help but be saddened to see the damage when I open the PC.
Ooh 286 salad 😆
Necroware puts out a new video, and I have to find a way to stop what I'm doing 😊
I hit the like button 1 second into the video and I'm not ashamed to admit it. 😁
Great video. I love how you explain this stuff. My PC skills are based in that era.
Wish I could understand more of the electronics side of things. Still fun to watch you doing it 🤠
I can’t believe how much of the original design was stolen from the creators.
I guess there was little point taking legal actions against companies in foreign countries that were profiting from it.
Thank you. Glad you liked it. In regards of stolen, Creative have stolen the FM part of the card from Adlib and destroyed the company using some corrupt suppliers and it's market share. So Creative is not the company which I would spend a tear for. "You reap what you sow". However, due to their aggressive business, their products became very important for the industry and the history. I made once a video about Pro Audio Spectrum, which you might find interesting if you like this topic.
I love this video! More please!!!
Great video!
In reality, this was a big luck with SB, that none of other chips were damaged when MCU was powered in backwards.. And, looks like, that old Atmel has reverse polarity protection.. 😂
Back in days, when I wrote firmware for my stereo, every time, before update, I needed to remove DS12C887 RTC IC, to save settings and needed to plug it back in socket after update.. One time I inserted it backwards and turned on.. 😢 I understood my mistake, when garbage appeared on screen. But I wasn't so lucky. I killed poor DS12C887 and one output line from 74LS138.
After this accident, I always double check before powering something on.. 😂
Very cool. CMS sounds more interesting in Monkey Island then Yamaha opl2 chip imho
vom Soundblaster zum Soundbastler ;)
I have a Yamaha OPL3-SA3 based card from 1996. The Yamaha OPL3-SAx family of chips are a complete soundblaster pro and opl3 compatible chipset in a single chip. It was apparently popular with card manufacturers for it’s ease of integration.
Very informative! Thanks!
I wasn't at all familiar with CMS. I think compared to a stock OPL2 it almost sounds like a newer wavetable card. Very interesting!
and yet, videos about sound cards are the most interesting for me))
You can use the sound blaster 2 firmware on this card. It's around.. we also use it in the snark barker's
Great video @necro_ware
Thank you for sharing your testing and repairs!
Keep up the good work :)
So... Was the first micro controller fried?
Nope, luckily it survived even though it was quite hot.
Good you have saved those! Any 8bit ISA sound card is hard to find. Where I live those are close to impossible to get. Not speaking about the original sound blasters...
Today I got a SB 1.5 without the CMS Chips in a GA-586HX with 4x ram modules mini PC with IBM 6x86 P166+ (CYRIX), ATI MACH64 and Caviar 21200, 12x CD and FDD in really mint condition. Even very less dust inside.
Just about to clean it up, not tested yet.
I remember this video, so I got back here.
Btw. I payed 13,50 Euro, it was offered with a audio (trash) bundle for 30 Euros. I told the seller that the audio stuff (7 components) is really of no interest. Even it doesn't make sense to grep transformers out of them.
For me, ES1688/ES1868 based cards are the most hassle free, provide good compatibility for DOS games and nice sound. The games that use native ESS synth sound even better. If I was building a retro PC, I would use an ESS card plus external midi (Roland) or a midi daughterboard (like Turtlebeach RIO). Mi first soundcard was Genius Sound Maker 16IE.
Mp3 music has the inbuilt codec, that uploads into the sound card. You can experience this with phones and tabs.
great video...subscribed
Nice!
I've built a couple of those Snark Barker cards, and I was surprised at how clean it sounded compared to its rep. Maybe part of it is my hearing sucks but it could also be that I used quality caps (including WIMA film caps in the sound circuitry where I used MLCCs in one of them, and "audiophile" grade electrolytics in the sound circuitry of both) and good quality metal film resistors, something Creative tended to skimp on. I can't really tell any difference between either SB 2.0 DSP (Tube Time managed to copy it from an original and posted the programming file for the Atmel chip somewhere, I don't remember where) or the Cloned ZHE DSP that's on his Github, but I haven't had the opportunity to do any good A-B testing.
Nice Video, the 2.0 Clone had some bad static in the left channel when in Monkey Island on the left channel
Opl3 is more than just "two opl2s". It has more waveforms and also supports 4op mode.
Tolles Video. Und keine sorge was die Uploadfrequenz angeht. Deine Zuseher warten auch gerne etwas länger auf gute Videos :)
Vielen Dank! :)
They sometime re-label to make them look like new-old stock, but those re-labels made them look even older/worse - lol -.
That's really funny. The number chosen for the LS512 is just like the YM215 but backwards. Which means that the LS262 is also backwards. 😂
You have nice hands!
Don't know what to say. I guess a simple thank you is not enough :)
CMS sounds like 8bit game consoles, that's very unusual for PC.
"...MWave..." -- Good luck! haha :-D
I had an Mwave sound card in my IBM Aptiva which I got as a used machine. It seems that it might have been a later revision than the ones shown in this video. I would genuinely like to see a video to show us Necroware fans exactly what they are capable of doing. For context, my IBM Aptiva (Pentium 100MHz CPU) shipped with Windows 95 pre-installed.
My first sound card was an Aztech Sound Blaster Pro clone. It also has the LS262 which seems to be a perfect carbon copy of the YMF262.
It also had on board Covox Speech Thing and Disney Sound Source compatibility, making it a fun oddity
Oh, wow. That is indeed a neat little card then.
Great video like always, got a CT1600 with also one channel working, maybe its the same problem, thnx for the inspiration for a possible fix.
If the sound card looks good otherwise, with no physical damage, like in my case, I'd suspect the amplifier. Look for the TEA2025 near the output.
The first volume control was screaming at me "80s pocket AM radio" 😅
Hello, regarding the ICs, sometimes you need to look at the factory too, at work i also had issues with strange looking parts, but after asking the manufacturer (TI, Microchip, …) it came out that the marking looks different from factory to factory. Its always a bad sign if they look different, but it must not be wrong.
I had a card that was pretty much that OPTi card. I remember my sound card having an OPTi chip and it was the same weird color. I think I got it from JDR Microdevices and it lasted a while before I finally got rid of the 486SX-33 computer it was installed in.
Follow the notch! :D
I think a better test of the OPL stuff would be to use Adlib Tracker (or even some VGMs exported from Furnace). They tend to use the chip in more unusual ways and can expose issues in some FM algorithms (usually the feedback fails miserably on clone cards).
That and some (rare) Japanese IBM PC games such as Rusty and Princess Maker.
I much prefer the pacing of the CMS sound over the OPL sound on Monkey Island. The OPL music seems to slow down and speed up and sound inconsistent, plus it has the usual flappy/farty sounds from OPL chips whereas the CMS tune is well-timed and crisp.
I wonder if the OPL's tendency to... flatulence is just programmer error rather than a chip limitation. The FM synth in the Mega Drive for example is capable of way tighter, crisper tunes, but on some of the worse titles it sounds just as sloppy as PC OPL music.
I did not watch every video, so pardon me if I'm asking something obvious. Back in the days, I remember that Gravis Ultrasound was *the* card to have. Do you also have one of those? Obviously I was young at that time and my source of information was not very trusty, so I'd love to hear some more trustworthy stories around it, too.
still have my soundblaster.....came with a drivebay with remote which you could press record anything that currently playing. a ant was walking across ir once, briefly glowing like the morning sun and was gone just as fast. dont thing the card worked after that
Other way to tell fake ics is to weight them the fakes are usually ligther
16:55 While CMS is a bad thing otherall, but on Lucas titles is sounds gorgeus.
After watching this I wonder, is it possible to play the CMS and OPL2 synths together? For even more varied sounds and channels.
Also, how come everyone cloned for SB Pro, but never made SB16 compatibles?
Suberb!
I wonder if you could use both the CMS and OPL at the same time to get better sound. Obviously you’d need software designed for it.
Theoretically, yes.
I've built BlasterBoard that is SB2.0 clone recetly. Assembled better to say. I bought the minmial kit so had to buy extra ICs myself. After I soldered everything I found that I put OPL2 chip in wrong direction. After putting it in correct position the FM sound was broken so I thought I've damaged it and ordered new ones. They were the same as 8051 on your video - strange looking ICs with strange non-original markings. I put one in my card and it produced the same results. So I started debugging and found the problem with one of logic ICs. Unlike OPL2 it was much-much cheaper but either fake or broken. So after replacing it and testing both original Yamaha OPL2 and this strange looking AliExpress OPL2 sounded very same.
Lol, just got the moment you did my mistake :)
5:20 I suspect that the Terratec connection is a bit of a stretch. I found cards which look identical but have different naming, such as "GOLDEN SOUND II". I managed to find FCC filings for some of the clones made under TOPTEK and it points to a Taiwanese company, TOPTEK Micro Computer Inc.; their last product was checked out with FCC in late '94. They had quite a few products and some of them have DSP daughterboard modules and nice badge-engineered (or really custom-made?) ICs with their branding, so they could be nice cards to check out for you as well as nice rares for collectors. On that note, what could possibly be the first Terratec soundcard? (also: I dream of owning a Maestro 32/96 or an EWS64 one day...)
Meanwhile I managed to remove that white paint and that is definitely a Terratec sound card. Most probably the second version, since it has a CDROM connector. I saw a very similar Terratec card once without a CDROM support. I know Golden Sound II, which you mentioned and although it looks very similar, it is not the same. May be they were "inspired" from each other ;)
I have a ESS 1868f card, which is nice. But! When no sound is playing and I crank up the speakers, I can hear some noise. Is this normal for these cards? Or maybe I should get an AWE64 that has apparently better quality sound?
The "rebranding" of ICs is very annoying. Many times they are working ICs, but they removed the original text and printed it again in a different style to confuse us. But the worst is when they sand off the brand and type and print a different one, like with some of my EPROMs. It works if you search the ID and set it according to the ID and not the text. But sometimes you can damage the EPROM by using wrong writing voltages if you choose the type according to the label... But we can be glad to be able to order these ICs even with these annoyances.
I have this Typhoon Sound Card in Original Pack, and all papers.
And a Original Sound Blaster 16 but she has sadly give up his ghost, she was working just fine, and after a PC new start it not longer works, and widnows will not longer Detect it.. :(
Thank you for that Video.
Ess688 is not a sb pro/2.0 clone, it is pretty solid 16bit sound card with good sb\sb pro compatibility. It's main drawback comparing to other 16 bit solutions is the lack of MPU-401 midi support.
Yes, you are right. It was not quite fair to call it a clone.
you think you can redirect general midi through fm, meaning, write a small program to redirect midi, general midi, through fm. get something out of it like a stock awe32. you wouldnt need an external midi module. youd have to store samples in ram, slow but just to see if it works?
Great work! China as always can't do something without fakes.
Can you talk to me what the "dioxide" you use to clean contacts?
To avoid the lottery of recovered chips you can buy brand new AT89C51 from your favourite electronic component retailer (Farnell/Element14, Mouser, Digikey, etc).
Absolutely agree. Unfortunately for me the expected delivery was 4 weeks with 10€ per chip incl. shipping. I decided to play the lottery and got three of those for 6€ in two days. However, just because it worked for me, as you say, it's still a lottery.
2:43 Why is U4 unpopulated? What was it meant to do?
That could be also another type of OPL3 FM clone. I have some cards with that as well. I plan to make a dedicated video about that.
I think cms sounds better but I can't quite say why, obviously the newer chips are fuller sound but I just like it 😅
I honestly do not understand why they relabelled those Atmel parts when they were already the actual parts.
What are the clones exiting?
There are plenty. May be I'll make a video about some of those.
the DSP chip was inserted backwards, hope no damage done.
Right! Lucky me, it survived.
Why do they relabel IC's? If they are what you expect them to be, they work and they are actually the correct part why do they do it?
Obviously if it's a completely different IC that would obviously never work and they just expect that many won’t bother returning it.
Bought 2 AT89S2051 and 4 AT89S4051 from Aliexpress. While the 2051 were ok, the 4051 were rebadged AT89C4051. I asked for a refund
4:39 the miro brand was universally panned by the reviewers back in the day. Literally everything they put on the market was garbage.
Well, actually the quality of the products was always outstanding. Miro was a German company, which enjoyed a very good reputation here. Some of those sound cards (f.e. PCM12) are today on many collectors lists. Also graphics cards and 3D accelerators, like Miro Highscore 3D were a dream back then and are very expensive today. The reason why some of the products from Miro were not well received by the reviews is, because Miro was always brave enough to make experiments and work with interesting solutions with potential, but aside of the usual market beasts. The sound card, which I showed in this video is actually a very good product, but it was just ahead of time. Miro decided, that DOS compatibility is not a thing anymore, because of ongoing DirectSound and Windows popularity. Other manufacturers also went the same way couple of years later, Miro was just a bit too early. The quality of the product itself is really good.
Really? Every Miro card I have seen has had excellent build quality. Really good stuff. Much better than Creative junk.
If they just admitted they were clones, it would be fine. Bloody Chinese copies piss me off.
they are clearly c lones