Roger Zelazny - The Chronicles of Amber - Extra Sci Fi
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- čas přidán 24. 08. 2024
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The Chronicles of Amber occupy a weird space in the New Wave. Is it fantasy? Is it sci fi? Is it both? We think so. While Zelazny is often left out of sci fi considerations, he has a lot in common with the other writers we've spoken about. He also deals with a topic that we see come up again and again in sci fi: What is the real? Even though The Chronicles of Amber are difficult to categorize, they still stand out, especially as our real & virtual lives continue to mix and mingle.
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What do you think about the blurring of fantasy and sci fi in literature? Is there a particular element that makes a story more one than the other?
It's awesome
My Wish for you to GET ON WITH IT AND TELL US ABOUT *The Queen of Worldbuilding* grows ever stronger.
I think like always, it`s how the elements are used and how they are balanced. My opinion is that there is no special magical story-ingredient, that makes storys magically better or worse. Only the mastery of the writer who uses this ingredients skillfully is important. Look at some of Terry Pratchetts books. He managed to write a hilarious novel about rebuilding Ankh Morporks old post office. The book is called "Going postal" and is a brilliant example, that one must only know how to work with the material
Thanks for making this video! Roger Zelazny was an incredible writer. I love his prose and I love his style. Amber was a great series, and really developmental for me in my teenage years, and will always hold a special place in my heart. His other books are great too. Lord of Light and the Dream Master are both masterpieces as far as I'm concerned; and I'd love to see you cover them too along-side Amber--though I know that seems unlikely--I know you guys have a lot of other writers to cover with this series. Still, great to see Zelazny getting some love again. I think you did Corwin's walk of the Rebman pattern justice, and hopefully it entices some new readers! Thanks again
My thing is that if the mechanics of something aren’t fully explained or based off of real technology, it’s science fantasy.
His followers called him Mahasamatman and said he was a god. He preferred to drop the Maha- and the -atman, however, and called himself Sam. He never claimed to be a god, but then he never claimed not to be a god
Kinda sad they didn't really talk about Lord of Light tbh.
They took one look at Jack Kirby's art for it and figured they wouldn't be able to do it justice.
My very favorite book! The Chronicles of Amber introduced me to Zelazny, but Lord of Light? That book is a revelation. I wish I could read it again for the first time.
@@JarrettOriginal Its my favourite book too! I've never finished a book and immediately re-read it again after finishing it (and enjoyed it with a completely new perspective). I always cherish the memories of that first read.
I love all his work, but I’m a huge fan of Creatures of Light and Darkness.
Oh man this book series is easily one of my lifetime favorites.
Just so.
Zelazny's style of writing is elegant and infectious.
~oh I have walked the pattern, through the shadows and the amber~
Loviatar Likewise - I can still remember all the princes and princesses distinctly. And of course Oberon.
YES!
CW NULL >> And he had a great sense of humor!
I had the misfortune of reading Zelazny's best book first, *The Lord of Light,* and went chasing through his entire catalog looking for another book that captured the brilliance of this epic, mythic vision. It is a story of a society that developed a technological mechanism for immortality by transferring the consciousness of individuals from their old, worn out bodies into freshly grown ones. Over many incarnations, the wealthy of this society developed powers, and raised themselves up to the status of immortal gods who took on the names and characteristics of the Hindu pantheon, and ruled their world as despots hiding and suppressing the fruits of their technological legacy, and plunging the world into a primitive, feudal theocracy. The protagonist of the story, who was endowed with powers of his own, challenged and made war against the established order. He wanted to unmask the gods as just people with powers, and share their ancestral wealth with the common people who consisted in large part of children and descendants from the many bodies worn by these "gods" from former incarnations.
This book is a gem more precious than Amber... :-)
In the collected works of Roger Zelazny, he said that he wrote mythology until he felt comfortable writing science fiction. And that he'd find the top 10 textbooks in a subject and read those, then move on to another subject. He wanted the science part of his science fiction to feel real, and his grounding in mythology meant that he could understand how humans mythologize things. I think my favorite story of his is "This Mortal Mountain"
"The Chronicles of Amber" actually got me into fantasy and sci-fi! Zelazny is easily my all-time favourite author. Thank you for this video, hope more people get into his stuff.
Some people got into fantasy and SF from Tolkien. And then there's those of us who had Amber. :)
"The Guns of Avalon"
I don't think a single title or phrase more perfectly encapsulates Zelazny as a writer.
"Sequence and order. Time and stress."
One man's jeweler's rogue is another man's gunpowder!
Guns were technically of Earth. Gun POWDER was of Avalon.
@@InteractiveIdea No, the "gunpowder" was from another Shadow, where it was used as a jeweler's rouge. Corwin accidentally discovered it could be used as a gunpowder in Avalon (which earthly gunpowder could not). The weapons manufacturer on Earth that he commissioned to make his ammo thought he was mad--the stuff was inert on Earth. But his money was good, so he got his guns with which to take Amber
@ChrisMattern-oh6wx yea you right... its been a while since I read it...
Also, any author who gets you to take seriously a character named Dworkin deserves a bucket of awards.
A lot of my childhood was spent attempting to draw the Pattern with sidewalk chalk, and then walk it.
Thank you for getting to Roger’s work! He mashed genres together but made the stories about something else- Amber was about family, memory and identity, Lord of Light was about responsibility and could religion be truth even if it isn’t true,
The Amber RPG was a FASCINATING attempt to style this sort of play at the time. I had a crew of friends who were Amber fanatics, when he died shortly after saying he'd be tying up the series with a few more books, they were heartbroken.
I've been reading Zelazny for 20 years now, and especially the Amber series.
A thought just occurred to me....the Patten of Order sounds like the traces of a Circuit board, and the Logrus, the sign of Chaos sounds the ephemeral paths and ways of a human mind...not neuronal connections, but the abstraction of human thought.
On second thought, the Pattern could be a representation of Neuronal connections, and the Logrus could be the abstracted way of human thought.
Anyway, great series. Possibly my favorite. I always suggest it to people, as so few have heard of it.
The Chronicles of Amber (both series), Jack of Shadows, Lord of Light, Madwand ... great stuff.
I was so excited to see this come up in my notifications! I love Corwin and Merlin, and I rarely meet anyone else that knows the series.
Nicole Devault >> I love the Amber books and Zelazny’s other work, particularly his humor.
@@jaybee9269 "Don't wake me for the end of the world unless it has really good special effects."
I always buy extra copies of my favorite of his stories whenever i see them at used book stores to remedy that when i get the chance.
Oh my gosh. I loved the Chronicles of Amber and this is the first time I've seen it covered on a CZcams channel. Zelazny was actually a friend of George Martin and inspired ASOIAF. Honestly, I find it much more enthralling than GoT. I'm still hoping for a TV series
Yessssss! Zelazny is my favorite author! Im so glad you covered him!
I have, literally, worn two copies of the complete chronicles to a pile of unbound pages.
Zelazny is so underrated!
Wendy Chavez >> Yes, I miss him! His last books, ‘Donnerjack’ & ‘Lord Demon’ along with ‘A Night in the Lonesome October’ are some of my favorites.
They didn’t touch on Zelazny’s humor here but it was a major touch of grace in his work; particularly the 2nd series of Amber books don’t take themselves all that seriously.
@@jaybee9269 Lonesome October is a vastly underrated gem
@@Tasarran >> It is indeed! Also, his story “A Dark Travelling” is wonderful as well.
Worth mentioning: if you’re really intrigued by the philosophical ramifications of virtual reality and virtual worlds, “Donnerjack” is the one you want to read (as well as “Home is the Hangman”!) But I do love seeing Zelazny getting some recognition!!!
If you watched this and want to get into Zelazny, “A Night In the Lonesome October” is a good intro to his writing style!
the Chronicles of Amber has has a major influence on my creativity. such a nice blend of fantasy and scifi and i just love the style Roger Zelazny wrote in. I also love how his friend George R R Martin put more than a few references to his work in a Song of Ice and Fire
Nine Princes in Amber was the novel that got me into fantasy and sci-fi. I read all the Amber novels and then every Zelazny novel I could get my hands on.
Finally. This is my favorite book series of all time. Thank you.
D&D with car chases and philosophical questions?
Bring on it!
Even more when the whole chronicle of Amber is a ten books lawVSchaos fight.
Best fantasy series of all time.
Zelazny may also be my favorite author.
I remember being in a creative writing class and the teacher recomending Amber. Still haven't read the books and that's a major oversight on my part
Zelazny is my favorite author, barring Pratchett! Lord of Light and Creatures of Light and Darkness are annual rereads for me! *So* flippin' cool you guys took up Amber!
This is one of the first stories recommended that I REALLY want to read.
For a Breath I Tarry was my artistic awakening.
"I am the soul of honor, kindness, mercy, and goodness. Trust me in all things."
CW NULL “I of course, am innocent of all but malice.”
Chronicles of Amber is awesome. I would love to see a premium cable/streaming adaptation of it.
That would be lovely, but oh, how they'd mess it up for sure... There's only one sex scene in the whole series.
@@Tasarran If you think the sex scene with Dara is the problem then you haven't thought this out. The traveling through shadows is not going to translate well to video and cgi (which is how they are going to have to do it) is just going to cause it to look bad.
Edit: also the Chronicles of Amber has more than one sex scene. Julia and merlin also have a sex scene in the second half of the chronicles.
This book series is and will always be my favorite. The possibilities are wonderful.
I'd love to see your take on the Amber Diceless TTRPG sometime-my introduction to the series. It has a lot of modern narrative over crunch sensibilities despite being released in '91.
Easiest one of the best RPG experiences.
I've tried playing it before. Despite being one of my favorite stories of all time, I find the rpg to be less than great. it's emphasis on the absence of dice rolls requires a lot of roleplaying skill from the players, and even more so from the gamemaster.
You take up a Zelazny book, read slowly, page by page, until the philosophy and subtext are clear, and cool, inspiration goes into the brain, *lip-smack* noice!
I really enjoyed Donnerjack. I hope more of Zelazny's stuff will make the transition into e-book so that I can reread some of his works. Changeling was my first. What a wild ride!
“Donnerjack” was amazing-and getting closer to reality. Maybe Elon will start the Genesis Scramble…?
Corwin of Amber has the distinction of being the first half of my online handle. I'm nearly 40, and the name is (at least) 30 years old. In it's time, it has traveled the coruscating pattern of the 'Web; It's achieved level 20 in D&D; It spent half a decade as the resident Redstone Wizard and Mechanism Consultant of a major persistent Minecraft world, wherein it taught it's self (and me) the Arcane Rites of Gate Logic, which opened up the Twin Paths of Electronic Engineering and Computer Programming. ...A fine legacy, for a name.
Mr. Zelazny, your work shaped the life of a boy who had just lost his father; who would go on to lose his step-father only five years later. You taught me that Magic was just a word we use to define Science we don't understand yet; that it all makes _sense_ if you can just see the bigger Pattern. You also taught me that a Hero could be anyone, and that anyone could be a Hero, even an amnesiatic prince... Even a broken nerd...
While I identify more, these days, with Merlin, Corwin will always hold a special place in my heart.
(Please do Anne McCaffrey soon! Esp. the Dragonriders of Pern!!)
I want a good Amber movie series! It’s long overdue.
Zelazny is absolutely my favorite author. My only grief is that whenever he does get mentioned by someone who isn't me, it's about Amber, which I honestly think is one of his weakest works. He was an absolute master of the short story and novelette; he very rarely wrote sequels at all, and Amber is the only series of anything that went past the trilogy marker (most of the time, he capped out at two, if he had something that felt like it would reward a second look from a new perspective.) (Okay, technically his series of short stories about Dilvish the Damned went over three, too, but he then combined them into a sort-of-a-novel with a vague throughline. Which he set up for an extended series, with Dilvish taking out each of Jelerak's castles one by one, and then said "nah bored now" and just wrote a second novel wrapping up the entire plot.)
Please, if you are interested in Zelazny after this ep, check out his short fiction collections. Frost and Fire is my personal favorite, but they are all veritable master classes in ways the short forms can be used to maximum effect (and maximum trolling; he liked a fun gimmick story now and then, he did.)
(btw I love Dilvish forever. He was a Fighter when he was turned to stone and had his soul sent to hell, which forcibly multiclassed him to Warlock. He now has two modes: "I can light a candle with a spell so I can swordfight better" or "destroy target city," and nothing in between. His struggle to know when it's time to pull out the "to hell with you and your continent and probably me too" guns is a source of constant entertainment to me.)
"This Immortal" blew me away. "Lord of Light" is usually held to be his best novel, but they didn't touch on either book.
So here's the thing. Amber has a component that isn't in his other works that causes it to be ranked that high. Shadow walking takes imagination. Lots of imagination, add to that the spell system of Chaos and other "hidden" abilities and it's not hard to see why people get attached to it.
@@davidmiller9485 I don't think you can seriously contend with a straight face that his other work does not have imaginative scenarios. XD
@@thefearedavocado I have a straight face and i do. Amber requires you to imagine a shadow walk. No other of his novels does this. Hell a hell-ride alone is an exercise in fast sequence imagination. This does not mean his other books are bad. I'm just pointing out why Amber tends to make people like it.
@@davidmiller9485 Damnation Alley, you mean?
Jack of Shadows requires you to imagine a reality bifurcated by day and night in which both versions are true, souls are in stones, and the core of the world is an eternal endless machine.
A Night in the Lonesome October pits Jack the Ripper against Dracula, Frankenstein, witches and werewolves in a battle for the nature of reality, told from the point of view of Jack's loyal dog.
Today We Choose Faces follows a man in a utopian far future who slowly unlocks his previous personalities and memories against his own advice and with the support of his own past selves.
But none of that is as imaginative as "there is a multiverse"?
I think you just haven't read much Zelazny. XD
Read them as a child. I might have to maybe reread them. They'd probably be quite different.
Just got finished with book 1 of this. Such a very cool premise.
I read and analyzed "Go Starless in the Night" and "For a Breath I tarry" for my composition class. They are both great!
Kinda reminds me of Simulacra and Simulation, one of the many philosophical books that helped create the Matrix movies.
There was a Nine Princes in Amber video game too.
I have been looking for his story "A Rose for Ecclesiastes" for ages
This might help: www.isfdb.org/cgi-bin/title.cgi?40981
Search at AbeBooks.com for the various publications which contain that story. It's very likely that you can find a cheap copy of one of them. Good luck!
Zelazny is one of my favorite authors, and I've read most of his stuff and agree with the points made on this episode, but I have to say: I have tried three separate times to get into the Amber Chronicles and they do nothing for me. It seems I'm the only one who feels this way though. Someday I'll try again.
You can definitely see a lot of his influence in Dungeons & Dragons Journey to the barrier Peaks anyone
Zelazny was a big influence on Ed Greenwood, author of the Forgotten Realms.
I ran some players threw this mod about a year ago, with some interesting changes. It is now a Ancient silver dragons lair.
At one point Zelazny even played D&D.
Ed greenwood and he wrote an Amber short story. The story of it's development itself is entertaining.
This video felt like it ended just as it was getting started.
My favorite author as a kid.
The Chronicles of Amber , finally . Love you guys and your work . maybe I should look for my Great book of amber and give it a re read. everyone interested in Sci Fi should read it , you can pic it up for like 20€
So if I like Pratchett I'll like this? And if there isn't a video for him somewhere down the line it'll be very disappointing
Edit: I bring up Pratchett mostly because I noticed several parallels to the Long Earth series to ideas in this video.
Zelazny's one of those authors where you have to pay attention as you read - his ideas are far enough out there that you're unlikely to have a strong intuition for them, and a lot of the time he uses metaphor (at least in part because there isn't proper language). The ideas are rewarding once you wrap your head around them, but it does take more effort than reading about city watchmen going up against a dragon.
Also, Zelazny is a lot more serious than Pratchett, so if Pratchett's humour is significant to you, then you're not going to find that in Zelazny's work.
I love Pratchett, but found Amber a strain to read. It seemed contrived and self-consciously written - often trying hard in a way that Pratchett feels effortless, but them I'm not a huge fan of the New Wave. I might have to give it (and other New Wave touchstones) another go and try to appreciate them for what they were trying to do in their historical and literary context, inspired by this series
Yes.
Start with Bring Me The Head Of Prince Charming if you like Pratchett.
@@cyntogia Thank you for the recommendation, I'll check that one out
@@rmsgrey I love his humor, but I've had the Discworld series for so long that I enjoy when he makes me *think* more. And I'm thinking more along the lines of Long Earth Pratchett. I noticed several parallels in the video to ideas in that series.
I am on my 4th copy of The Chronicles of Amber. I need to buy a new one every decade because I literally read it to tatters. Thanks for doing this!
Zelazny is one of the best !
That was a great video. I was wondering, how about u guys make a video on Lois Lowry's "The Giver". Plus, could u guys make a video on the Great Uprising of India in 1857?
Thanks for that existential crisis...
never heard of this guy before but the work you guys have highlighted here sound like is something I would highly enjoy so thanks for pointing him out
Thank you for making video about my favourite books!
Chronicles of Amber are still my absolute favorite of all my books.
Zelazny is my favorite author, period, and boy I have read a lot of books in my life. His works have shaped me into the man I am now, and so I ask others to share with me what other books they found on their journey, that could be of interest to someone who loves Rogers work?
I personally can recommend Ursula Le Guin and Viktor Pelevin, but beyond that it's hard for me to remember an author who understood the logic of a myth just as well, and could recreate it with any desired ingredients, be it sci-fi, fantasy or anything they would like.
God, yes. One of my favourite channels talking about one of my favourite books.
I have gone on to try to get so many people to read this series!
I wish you would have summarized the plot of one of his books a bit more.
From what I know, you either have only a short description that makes it easy to confuse it with other stories that have a similar basic premise or you could just as well read the books.
The basic? King vanishes, eldest son is betrayed by his younger brother. Eldest son escapes raises an army and challenges his brother while an unknown evil rises. I think that was about the plot of the first two books. Anything more and I'd loose myself in explaining the shadows, which are entire worlds (maybe even universes) but still just shadows with intelligent and sentient people. Aaand that's the point when it becomes too much to explain and easier to just read the books.
I'm actually re-reading the Amber Chronicles right now! Just started the Hand of Oberon this afternoon.
I definitely shouldn't have read the Amber series back in middle school, but it's something I return to every five to ten years
If any of you Zelazny fans haven't yet checked out A Night In The Lonesome October, it's one of Zelazny's absolute best; I have heard it said that he regarded it as one of his masterpieces. I HIGHLY recommend it.
Classic movie monsters and their familiars join together to play a political and supernatural game which will either bring the Old Ones back to Earth, or close the door in their face. But nobody knows who's on what side. Narrated by Jack the Ripper's dog.
Zelazny is my favourite read.
It's one of the important wishes in my life that Amber should be made into a movie serie. Imagine morphing reality gradually into other landscapes; the walking of the pattern, but perhaps it's a bit silly that these God like heroes prefer to fight each other like children.
‘Sword fights and car chases’ sounds like a great title for a story that’s a blend of fantasy and sci-fi
When I was younger, after reading Chronicles in Amber, I remember meditating through some prayers, following the path to move through the meditation.
I read all 10 books in Russian 20 years ago and now listening to all 10 books in English.
I found Zelazny in my local library when I was 14-ish. I literally was just looking to see who had names up in the Z-section and his sounded interesting. I picked up the Chronicles of Amber (book 2 I think) and started reading. That was over 20 years ago and I still remember it as a superb fantasy setting. Very recommended.
Bet it must have felt pretty confusing though. Book 2 is basically just the second half of Book 1, there is pretty much no recap of its events, the assumption is that not only have you read it, but are probably just freshly done reading it.
Oh man, I haven't read that book in YEARS! Thanks for posting!
Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa my favorite serie of books ever! Thank youuuuuuu! 💞
as my teacher said "read between the lines after all the book is between the covers"
Żelazny
If you want to talk about fantasy novels that don't stick to tropes - make an episode about Dark Tower.
Man, this was deep
Zelazny’s best work and one of the very few fantasy tales I enjoyed.
Thank you for this video... It's given me a whole host of authors to look into... And the narration sounded so similar, and reminded me of, the Awaken Online series by Trevor Bagwell. I immediately went and hunted through all the kindle unlimited returned books, scrolling past my mother's many romance books, to find the missing treasure I'd forgotten about during my reading hiatus. Now I just have to hope that archive.org has a free copy for me to read.
I really hope extra credits could cover over the City of Ember series
Lord of Light...PLEASE!!!!
Ah, Amber...That was one insane RPG.
Thanks for reminding me that this exists ...
I've ran the Amber Diceless RPG a ton! I've had adventures that included: a take on the first episode of a season of Doctor Who, an NPC who had Winnie the Pooh as his roommate (felt bad after accidentally burning down his house), and a PC that went to a Dragonball world, making Vegeta jealous of his abilities, so Vegeta tracked down the Dragon Balls and wished to have that same ability to walk between worlds :D
Glad they covered the big Z. Sad it wasn’t longer or touched on Lord of Light
DO HITCHHIKERS GUIDE TO THE GALAXY!!!!!!!
What a powerful segment.
Dear chaos ive never clicked on a video so hard in my life!
Considering this is exactly the kinda thing I'm trying to write. I guess I have something to read...
How is Zelazny is a side note? I grew on his books!
I've read "The Chronicles of Amber" at least five times before I graduated secondary school!
Great series!
You should explore Greg egan if you can, he explores some of the same questions but takes it a lot further.
YES. ZELAZNY. MY BOI.
The last time i was this early the lovecraftian city of R'yleh still sat at the surface of the earth
Little thing. When he talks about taking scalps on the Western Reserve, you show a scene that looks closer to the Western Front in WWI. The Western Reserve would have been around Ohio around 1812. Then again, this IS Amber, so anything is possible.
Hail, Prince Corwin!
Corwin, run for king
Rendezvous With Rama! Rendezvous With Rama!
Loved 💗💓💖💘 this as a teen. I need to buy and reread and share with my kids. Piers Anthony is another. 💗👍✌🖖
Love the series but my one recommendation for those who are going in fresh.. take a break and read something else in between books 5 and 6.
Agreed. Corwin's cycle and Merlin's cycle are both good, but they are VERY different novels.
I found the seventh book to be hard to get through, perhaps also because I was binging the whole cycle.
Just listened to the audio book of 9 princes. One of my favorite books of all times.
I wonder, will this channel eventually go into what directions movies and games took sci-fi into that books did not?