Tips on Canister Welded Damascus Steel
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- čas přidán 21. 08. 2024
- Hey Everyone, it's been awhile but, here are some tips on some easier methods of welding canister damascus steels. This video is for using basic (un-hardening) square tubing for canisters to make high carbon damascus knife steels. I hope you enjoy and it helps.
J. Neilson
ABS Mastersmith
www.mountainhollow.net
who else got here after the recent episode with canister damascus and the contestant saying he learned from J's youtube video? lol
me
Me
I legit just watched it
Guilty
Yup
Feels like going back in a time machine watching these videos. Working my way backward from most recent Forged in Fire all the way here. You really did a great job providing these educational videos! Thanks!
Watching the the show you can tell Jay does this for the art and the hobby. Love watching him critique others and also when you see genuine admiration for the contestants on the show. I love the entire cast but Jay seems to be the guy I look at most as far as his judgement on another knife maker. Great stuff.
Thank you Jay!!! You're a gentleman and a scholar! Congratulations on forged in fire I look forward to season three!
Watching all the Forged In Fire marathons on History has given me the bug to try my hand at bladesmithing. Getting a gas forge set up this weekend so I can start working on some blades.
Уважаемый Джей Нельсон!
Спасибо Вам, что предоставляет видео по кузнечному мастерству!
Я желаю Вам долгих лет успешного развития и совершенствования своего мастерства. Спасибо Вам за передачу "между молотом и наковальней" я просмотрел все выпуски, которые выходили в России! Я уверен, что в кузнечной среде Вы являетесь непререкаемым авторитетом!
Hi, just want to say Big Thanks. Discovered Forged in Fire just a month ago here in the Netherlands, I've been an armourer for years ( longtime ago but severe illness made it stop) but seeing you at work & the show makes me start again, but making knifes this time.
Never tried or heard of cannister, but used it now to make a Mokume Gane billet of brass/copper. Works great!
Regards from a big fan from the Netherlands.
Of all the visual metallurgical analysis of pattern welded billet surface properties that I've ever conducted via youtube, yours is by far the best. Paper, oil, sawdust, virgin witches perineum whiskers or any combustible in your can is to purge any oxygen or compounds thereof. Your method minimizes the problem and a can full of whatever usually has plenty enough impurities like oil grease or smegma to combine and purge available Ox. I have another option that works great for me if you're interested Jay! I consider it my best trick for saving time and material plus it's free
love the movie posters in the background
Find it even more amazing to see an Army of Darkness poster in the back. You sir, are a gentlemen and a scholar!
I'd marry this man. He could make all the swords I've always wanted off world of Warcraft and I could test them out on some trees like the rogue I am. 😋 love you J Neilson and the show!!
Love doing canister I don’t play with mild steel can’s though I use stainless rhs and have never had an issue with removing, so simple and no mess 😁👍
LOVE the Evil Dead posters on the wall!
Doing this, this weekend.
That's going to make Damascus so much easier.
Great video J. Neilson. Your a great inspiration for us starting out in blacksmithing. Keep the videos coming. Thanks much.
The part where he says “I don’t work in Hollywood.” So proud of you and how far you’ve came! My home is a big fan!! I want to go on forge in fire so much more now and the only thing I’ve ever forged is my moms name on a bad report card 🥴🥴
3 minutes later @ 15:18 he says "popped right out" lol thats classic! Thanks for the very informative video Jay!!!
J. Neilson, as I righting this, I'm watching season 4 episode 15 - The Gladiators' Scissor. It's paused at the 2 hour mark in round 1 because I got curious as to how a Canned Damascus was made and that was because you said right around that time canned Damascus was your favorite to do.
Anyway I paused the show and wanted to look up how it was made and the very first video is this one. Great Video.
I honestly have never attempted to make a sword or knife but I have played with steels and fire and watching them glow. But however I am inspired with the vast number of possibilities you can do with forging and would love to do so and I know if and when I get to afford a way to forge I will use your knowledge that you offer to gain experience needed great teaching.
hahahahah
me too! lol :D
Great tip on the Whiteout, very cool and useful. Suggestion, get a 4-1/2" angle grinder with some Walters cut off wheels and slit it on both sides. Much faster than the large grinder and no chiseling.
Thanks for sharing was thinking it was a secret people weren't willing to tell
Big fan of Forged in Fire, J. I'm from Falls, Pa. Not far at all from your home shop. Big fan of Forged in Fire and your metallurgical tips and tricks in forging metal. Keep up the good work man.
J, I love the fact that you give info freely and try to advance the craft. That, to me, is truly the downside of the ABS method - it's all about the buck.
On the other hand, you constantly say on FiF that they should just grind it without white out. Pick one.
Gotta say sir, you guys are doing a damn fine job with "forged in fire". It definitely has a hint of the reality show feel, which normally I am not too fond of. However I think thats almost mandatory for shows of the same type.
Keep up the fantastic work sir!
while on the subject of forged in fire", i really wish they would calm "g i joe" down...will gets way way over the top with the barking
Thank you for making this video, it answered the questions I had on doing this and I'm looking forward to trying it.. I'm a beginner just got my shop put together in my garage all that's left is to build my forge. Anyway I just wanted to say thanks, without all the knowledge on you tube it would be a lot harder to figure out how to do things. I can't wait for the 2nd season of forged in fire, I loved watching the first season.
Just watched the Forged in Fire episode where this was done and one of the guys mentioned your YT video. Very interesting and nice to see you on the business side of the shop.
same
Love the angle he uses with that 20” angle grinder!
Tried my first canister yesterday, did not come out like this :-) Practice makes perfect, thanks for all the good info J.!
I'm surprised more folks - J Neilson included - don't use a cutting torch and scarf that can off. Way more simple and a lot quicker than the grinder, hammer and chisel method.
I work at a tool rental place and I got me some 3/4 sewer order cable I want to weld up. It fits perfect in the 1x1 square stock I made my first grinder from. I I want to use powedered 1084 because I am intimidated by the heat treating of 1095. I don't have an oven and can't regulate temperature like that. Anywho, I'm going to do 2 variations of the billet. 1 with the inner core wire, and one without. I need to clean them up a lot! The outer wrap I'm not to worried about but that inner core has some grease. So I'm just going to cut it to length, weld the ends, and boil it, then soak it in vinager of there is any remaining oxidation. I just got done making my first " good" billet of demascus. I got a nice profile that I like and only have a couple inclusions that are going to grind out....hopefully. Only 2 more years until I can test for my J.S. So I should probably get good at making knives before I make demascus but it's too fun.
Awesome didn't know you did your own you tube videos but keep it up
1st saw you on the TV 📺 you know your stuff
Thanks 🙏
Great Video, would have looked a bit safer if you had worn sleeves, but being American the constitution protects your right to bare arms.. Love forged in fire
Ah! You beat me to it!
Hahahaha. Good one.
true comic commentary
Wah-waaa... lol hilarious
thanks for the info. I did love seeing you on the forge in fire show. hope you guys do more.
This guy looks talented
He should be a judge at a forging show
I "think" (emphasis on think) the reason that white out is a good debonder is that it's often made with titanium dioxide. It's the brilliant white colorant used in everything from paint to salad dressing and has a very high melting point. Thanks for the tutorial! I've got some ball bearings and 1095 powder that I'm going to give a squish and see what happens!
I've watched forged in fire for year's I had no clue you had a CZcams channel. I've come across another very helpful tip for canister Damascus steel he uses a white spray paint and man he can pop a can in minutes. I'll go see if I can find the video where he talks about the paints that he uses, and I'll post the link here if CZcams will let me.
it fun looking at the video but people do not know how much time it take in makeing good knife but if people need help this video will help all was fun looking at a mastersmith at work
Hi Jay! I can't believe that I found you on CZcams! How cool!
Hey Jay. Only recently started watching 'forged in fire'. Good tv.... I'll be watching more of your videos. Hopefully I'll be on your show sometime but with 0 years experience it's highly unlikely.
New to canister Damascus. Thank you for a very informative video. May I be so arrogant as to share the observation that I believe cutting the opposite side of the canister might save a bit of time and effort? Thank you for your willingness to share your experience.
Watch you on the show. Love you are an amazing master smith an fun to watch with dave baker.
I am a very big fan of you and i like your way of beating blades in forged in fire
In a great number of ways, this reminds me of crucible steel. A smith puts his iron ore, or his bloom, whatever his steel source is, along with coal dust along with some sand and glass (that what the guy in the video used) in a canister( he called it a crucible) of what I think was some sort of clay. This seems very much the same, except the crucible is a metal tube filled with existing steel bits.
Basically
Thanks, great video.
I'm sure you hear it every day, but three weeks ago my gf put on a show, "it's like chopped but man stuff"
After the show I went out to my shop and made a glorified prison shank out of a file. Made a few out of pre made profiles...
Picking up a propane forge tonight...lol
So thanks.
+randomname604 Very cool, I'm glad you enjoyed Forged in Fire and hope it helps spreads some forged blade knowledge out there. We begin shooting season 2 later this month. Have fun with your new forge.
+J. Neilson Can't wait till season 2....Finally after about 9 months of youtube videos conned the wife into letting me start making my own blades. Come Christmas I will have a 1x30 and an angle grinder so excited.
+J. Neilson Season 2 is WAY better than season 1, by the way. It is so much better put together and the bladesmiths you have competing are at a much higher level. I love how there is more commentary from you and the others than there was in Season 1. It is by far my favorite show on right now. Awesome work! Pass that along for me if you would. :)
J. Neilson a buddy of mine is just submitted his questionaire, Stephan Fowler of Fowler Blades . He is on twitch.tv/wickedbowie he is on pretty much Mon-Sat 10ish-3ish EST..FORGING AWAY LIVE or Google Fowler Blades
Need you to get back on season 3!! To be honest i do like your replacement tho (can't remember his name)! Hope the hand is better now
Really glad I found your channel. Thanks for the info on this video
Thanks for the advice J about letting the can heat until almost melting up until I did that I got “rabbit droppings” thanks so much
I just subscribed to your channel, I’ve been watching you on Forged in Fire and I would love to take up knife making as a hobby and the army doctors say it would be good for my PTSD. It might take me awhile to make a knife though, my dominant arm was blown out by a roadside bomb and I’m not sure if I can swing a hammer for long, but I’d like to give it a try. Thanks for all the knowledge you are sharing.
jeff dye thank you for your service, you are a true survivor
Look forward to trying that some day. Thanks!
That is fantastic!! Thanks for sharing - looks like a much easier way to make Damascus; I gotta try this myself....Booyah!
Any cheap white paint works as its the titanium dioxide used for the pigment that prevents the canister from welding to the steel. i have so far tried the brands basic, cretext color and even some Crayola washable paint and they all have worked. they do not dry as fast as whiteout but aside from forged in fire, you do not really need it to dry super fast. however, oil paints do take a fair amount of time to dry so I would stick with acrylic paints...although thinking on it oil-based paints may work a little better. although you do need a paintbrush if you use basic or Crayola washables. also, a heat gun will speed up drying from a few minutes to about 1 minute with the paints mentioned. I just happen to own a heat gun as i use it for making sheaths from a thermal plastic called Instamorph.
cool to watch this video after watching you on forged in fire.really cool
Great video. Thanks. Wish you were still on FIF...
Can you tell me if the zink is dangerous in the white out. Like galvanized? Maybe it is OK, being different. Any other things one could use instead if one could not get it. Am in India at the moment.
By any chance would you know of any other filler I could use for the canister other than powder. Appreciate your video and would love to know. Any help appreciated.
Its not dangerous. I'm in the coatings industry, and I know the person who developed White Out. (Liquid Paper was developed by someone different.) The zinc oxide is the white pigment. Its cheaper than Titanium Dioxide, which is used in paints and inks. If its zinc oxide that is acting as a release agent, then you might want to try diaper rash cream. That's basically vaseline with zinc oxide. I haven't started forging yet, so if someone wants to try a forge weld with diaper rash cream, let us know if it works.
Same shit as tippex that we have in europe I assume.
"obviously I don't work in Hollywood" he says 2 years before he gets a long-running television show on the History channel.
I love the show and thanks for the informative videos.
great video, can't wait to try it out myself
I am from forged in Fire beat the judges
Pictures or it didn't happen
very informative Jay, thank you.
Just a curiosity, but have you ever pressed a billet out of a can? You could weld a couple of square stock pieces on opposing sides of the can after you split it to rest on the bars of the press. Make a die that fits the average ID of the cans and billets you make. You could even tack a handle on it to hold while you pressed it. You would just need to orient the can so that the thickest end of the billet is facing in the correct direction to come out the easiest.
Great job. Love the show
love the show! i know your a pro just wanted to maybe throw a tip to try for removing that canister after u grind and split clamp the side u peeled up with the chisel in the vise and throw a good pipe wrench on the sqaure side and lean on it n work ur way down the tubing n should fall right out pretty easily.. let me know if it works maybe a new trick from a youngster to a pro thx
I like the white out tip!
should have just cut opposite sides and it would have fell right off
Thank you for the tutorial Sir. Awesome!!
Fascinating!! So are you putting any kind of flux in the can with your metals and powder?
Bob Azadi Hey Bob, no flux is needed when doing a canister weld.
If I ever get a chance to try that I’d probably use my torch to slice the canister open instead of using a grinder. Obviously it works but if you were to slice opposite sides with a torch by the looks of your canister it would probably just fall off without having to beat on a chisel.
Thank you! Great video. I'm going to try that.
Hey Jay, nice video. As a knife make you know that Is actually pattern welded steel and not true authentic Damascus steel. Also called won't, or crucible steel, and that they aren't even close to being the same.
I didn't expect you to be an evil dead fan.
i want to see a contestant use this hack on the show.
Thank you J! You really have taught me so much between the show and now this video!! QUESTION--- What size box steel is that 2''? .... also should I use something smaller for a coal forge? I am getting ready to fire up my grandfathers old fan powered coal forge next week with 3 or 4 canisters (my first ever) The forge is located 1.5 hours from where I am now so I really want to have my canisters on par
Thanks Again and I hope you have happy holidays!!
Fun Fact: it was Michael Nesmith from the Monkees , His mother, who invented White-Out.
How many knives will that billet produce?
Eric French Great to see that I am not the only one that knows the little tid bit of knowledge.
Very nice video despite the lighting...lol...subbed
Peeling that can of like "No heat, just beat ;)"
Would be interested in seen a video on how to judge if the canister has been heated enough
you are an amazing person and i love you!!
When you made the canister, did you hammer on it at all to weld it, or did you just leave it so it would weld on its own?
Thank you love the Show I was wondering why can't you cut the opposite side also? wouldn't it just open up without trying to pry it open? I love that idea with the whiteout like you said it was jiggling around in there. I really enjoy forged in fire show and watching videos thanks
Awesome poster collection on your walls. Army of Darkness is one of my favorite movies. Klatu Verata Nik$%^@% Big Forged in Fire fan, BTW!
This is awesome! I want to learn bladesmithing myself, and I love your show, Forged in Fire.I have a question. Which is your preferred method of making Damascus steel? Is it folding, restacking, twisting, jelly roll, canister, or another method, and do you have particular alloys you like to work with for Damascus?
So zinc oxide is your parting solution. Okay, cant you use the zinc oxide sunblock to create the same parting effect? It's sold in tubes at dollar stores in greater volume than the whiteout making it a better bang for the buck. In thinking about this I was worried about the whole drying factor as I didn't think the sunblock would completely dry but too you mentioned adding oil to the canister for removing impurities(even though you didn't notice a difference), so I was a bit less worried. Would you do a video by chance using zinc oxide sunblock as a parting medium instead of the whiteout?
Thank you so much for this video. Most of my smithing knowledge came from my father, a farrier of 60 years experience but after watching Forged in Fire, I personally have been inspired to greater things than horse shoeing.
I know this is an old video but so many people have commented on J. and the show, it made me wonder. Why do so many people on the show who try the whiteout method seem to have so much trouble? Too much or not enough heat? Not enough coating/too thin? welded too many times?
nice job, where do you get the ball bearings from?.cant wait for the new video.
Hey Vincent,
I commonly get my ball-bearings from Enco Tool. They've got a good web site and I've always gotten consistently good bearings from them.
J.
I don't know if it has been mentioned....But wouldn't a little judicious heat along the piece from a O/A Torch or Forge (Whatever) Make peeling off the Can a bit easier?
Hi j love your work just a bit of advice. but I guess you prob already know with your wealth of knowledge & experience. Have you tried thick metal wedges on both sides. Could help with all that hammering & bending with the cold chisel . Trying to get that can open And making it go a bit quicker. And saves you hands
Amazing
What is usually the ratio of steel pieces to powdered steel? Great video! Also, wouldn't it be more efficient to use an angle grinder to cut two corners and just pop a side off the canister to get to the Damascus Billet?
The contestants on the show should really watch this video before going on the show.
Beast from the east 😁😁
Just sub J. Your the best big fan. I love your work !
👍👍👍
Hi there I am a blacksmith in the uk this is a really interesting video thank you for putting it up. One quick question if you could answer that would be great. I would like to start using nickel in my Damascus but I am having s bit of difficulty in finding what kind I can source and use the most common I seem to be coming across is nickel silver sheet would this be fine to use? Thank you in advance
Try scrap metal dealerships.
Best ones around are Sims Metal Management, they'll either have some or know someone with some.
bandsaw blades contrast well some are 15n20. Hacksaw blades, lumber banding, trampoline springs(danger galvanic brain death) and concrete nails can work depending on your other metal. For 5 cents a round you could use nickels, which is cheaper than nicvkel silver that contains zero silver but priced like it does
Jay, given your current position, you are an example for the many people all over the world that watch you. People take inspiration from people like you. Now, as a Public Heath specialist, I ask: where is your PPE? You might as well show up in your undies and flip flops... Good for glasses and gloves; but not even some a proper protective shirt? All that matters around you face are the eyes?! c'mon man, at least add an Advisory to these older videos.... Sorry but just couldn't let this one pass...
THE Master!
your great
.
heart this if you're actually reading our comments
Thank you very helpful 🔨💪
Great video, I have a related question, is it possible to make a canister billet with only 1095 and 4600KC Powder? My worry is would the billet be strong enough without adding ball bearings or other parts.
Do you ever
use the hammer or possibly c-clamps to compress the lid onto the powder? Sintering?
Mr Neilson
Question is the active ingredient zinc oxide?
Have you ever tryed a quality artest paint ? zinc white is a color and you can get the zinc white in just dry pigments .I am almost positive that it is pure zinc oxide.
Just wondering.
Thanks,Martin at M/ S Blacksmithing and Blades
Not sure but If my suspicions are correct the artest paints or pigments will work on account they are mades from pure zinc oxide. Theonly thing I suggest before trying is not touse oil paints. Also the better the quality of the paint the more pure the pigment. This is why I suggested that you can possibly use the dry pigments and mix your own. But the thing is is it was a question and ive never tried it before so I was asking if it was the zinc oxide that helped the canister not bond to the bilit. I know from experience that artest paint has a high zinc oxide pigment percentage. Since I haven't gotten a reply from Jay I will have to try it or ask in a few forums I belong to.
Cost would be the issue
How do you figure that cost is an issue? I ask because you can get a great brand of acrylic Zinc white large tube for 15 USD. It may cost a little more than a very small amount of white out but in the end if the said paint will work if you thin it like the consistency of white out you will have a large amount of paint for many canisters. I mean this is assuming that the zinc is the cemical that keeps it from sticking. I have searched for info on using artest paints for this but have not had any luck. Mabe some time I will give it a go. Sort of a proof of concept and do two billits 1 using white out the other using artest paint.. Martin M&S Blades
There's also lots of Zink oxide in many popular coffee creamers
Whats the difficulty with using a stainless steel tube , weld one end . Place in forge create a chromeoxide . Fill with whatever metals you want to make the pattern with adding a little lamp oil . Carefully clean welding area with a hand held dremmel grinding bit, cap weld and drill one small hole . The interior metal will not weld because of the chrome oxide !
I love forged in fire