Porsche 964 - Can C4 be as good as C2 and is either as good as real RS?
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- čas přidán 21. 06. 2017
- Aiming to settle once and for all the age old question of Porsche 964 C2 Vs C4 and is the RS any better? We took a modified Porsche 964 C2, lightweight 964 C4 and a genuine 964 RS and took them for a test drive to see what was what!
- Auta a dopravní prostředky
Before you all mention it this was edited by Frank so I can't do anything about the music during the test drive! It won't be there in future videos
I won't mention the music then, but the echo chamber of the barn also needs further consideration/work. Interesting video and fair play for you all to spend me the time, and To conclude that C2 is the way to go. I won't be putting mine on a diet though!
Thanks for watching Grant.. i thought yours had already been on a diet??
Number27 nope, still has full interior carpets, only seats replaced with buckets, and has sunroof, aircon, stereo, electric windows, etc
weighs 1360kg or there abouts
Shame on you!!! Get working on it immediately to shed those pounds. The carpet is ok but the sunroof, aircon and stereo HAVE to go. Agreed on the barn echo too.
I like the luxuries, may get rid of sunroof, but the rest stays....
Just to give you a sense of where I’m coming from, I’ve been fortunate enough to own and aggressively drive 5 different generations of 911. A 1969 911E, 1984 Carrera, 1990 964 C4, 1996 993 C4 narrow body and currently, a 2012 991.1. Without a doubt, the 90 C4 was the most amazing car of the bunch HANDS DOWN. Did it handle like a 911, NO. It handled WAY BETTER imho. The car was literally glued to the pavement in even the most extreme cornering situations. As mentioned in the video, you could actually feel the car claw it’s way around corners with virtually no rearward weight bias feel, period. You could feel it actively gripping on all four corners, on rails, all the time. The superb and very sophisticated AWD system literally neutralized the handling of the car for those used to driving a “normal” 911 by always delivering 31% of its torque up front (in-line with the natural weight distribution of the car). The gearing was spaced perfectly and the car was blistering fast for it’s time. By comparison, the much simpler, lighter, lower cost AWD system implemented in the 993 made virtually no contribution to improved day-to-day handling as it delivered only 5% of the available torque up front until the rear of the car begins to get out of shape. In other words, a system predicated on safety, not handling performance. I found the sensation to be so underwhelming that I kept the car for only 6 months. Aside from much improved reliability, I was no 964 in the handling department. Long live the 964 C4!
So right. The C4 might not be as fast on track due to the weight handicap, but on the open road it is a much more capable car than a C2. All rally cars have 4wd today, and for good reason
Great Video, thanks for pulling together - I just love all these 964's!
Really enjoyed watching that guys and brings back great memories of my C2 (which you'll be pleased to know is in very good hands and has continued to evolve). Hopefully you'll meet up with it and the new owner some day. Although they are great memories I have no regrets in moving to a Cayman R. It's a fantastic drive and the 964RS of the future. :)
Well put together piece. I think it really got the message of the differences, and pros and cons of each.
Nice to see my old car still being enjoyed. Great little vid.
Laurence Gibbs which one was yours Lawrence? The RS?
Yes the RS
Awesome cars and AWESOME video gentlemen! :)
Excellent video guys, I'm biased as it is totally my thing. As for criticisms about the sound... these guys are enthusiasts and have been kind enough to put together a video about the cars they own and cherish. There's hardly a Top Gear production team behind them and it's REAL! I'd much rather watch this than an over produced and edited series with sarcastic guys blowing up cars, not to mention lame humour aimed at an American market.... just sayin'
Anyhow, moving on .... C2 has won the day. I had a 993 C4 a long time ago, that was IMHO a step towards a 996, that was step to my 997 C4s that I love but I'm thinking of selling. I owned a couple of 964's in the early 90's and miss the rawness that the later cars haven't got. So my current (for two years) is a gently modded 1990 964 C2 manual, with no frills, no sunroof, no aircon is the best car I've ever owned. I think I now have the car that Porsche would create if they ever made a 'Heritage' aircooled 911. A drivers car that sounds and handles great...... but my other half thinks it's like being thrown around in a biplane! Carrera 2 all the way unless it's snowing....... Cheers guys and keep up the good work.👍🏁
Thanks for making this great comparison! Love it! Have had 2 C4's and currently on my first C2, Convertible that is. All were 300hp kitted, and apart from the little shakes on full power in third and double the mileage, the Convertible is the most fun of the three. Actually a lot more fun than the previous -99 C4 Tip, the scary -03 ClubSport and the other on currently occupying half my garage, a -05 C2S. Just recently rode in a -96 993C2 and have to say the 964Carreras will always be my favorites. Certainly not the fastest of 911's, but the absolute best compromise. And that's counting the SC's and 964/993/996/997/991(S) Turbos + a 991.2C2S I've been fortunate enough to sample.
A BB 964C2 Convertible might be the ultimate fun car? Just a thought for coming videos?
All this is very nice, until, rain or snow comes into play :)
Good bye C2 ... hello C4 !!!!
Personally I would have the c2. Looking at buying a 964 within the next 1-2 years. Really professional looking video, if it wasn't for the sound it would be perfect.
Well done guys. Thank you.
What planet was our Frank on when editing the video with that bloody music!!!!!
Jack, I ran across this video, and enjoyed it very much. I now know why you converted your c4. BTW, that RS is awesome.
Thank you buddy, it was a fun day for sure!! And definitely a defining moment in my decision to go to C2!
Porsche had such bold colours for the 964...
Should use clip on mics in that big barn as the reverb was awful. Content was good though, sound of those air cooled cars was excellent. Would have liked to have seen some more static shots of the cars also.
4WD is the way to go. Once had a Chevy Trans Sport and then drove the 4wd Trans Sport from my uncle. It's night and day. The power gets so much better converted to the street its amazing. That's why a freind of my father burned some Porsche and other sports cars at the traffic light race with his Audi S4 Station Wagon with an V8 connected to the street via AWD. All these 2wd cars couldn't get the power to the streets as efficient as the Audis AWD.
Great video. Music notwithstanding, natch. Oh... And with RS prices the way they are, and with it being unlikely that I would chuck a £200k classic about with wild abandon, the C2 is the only one I'd consider. Also, if I want 4wd, I'll use my old RR. I'm not into AWD 911s.
As an aside.. I did own a 964 RS in the early noughties. I found it entertaining, but a bit over rated. I'd be happy enough with a modded C2.
the real winner..
anyone who ownes any of them!
C4 for "normal" all weather roads is the way to go... just be careful with its understeer on short radius corners. Once tried a RS on bumpy roads, what a nightmare...
Nuno MC yep that bloody understeer was my biggest bug with my 964! I waited 25 years for the 4 wheel drive version to be produced to do away with rear end wag but was bitterly disappointed with it! I was told before l sold it that if you lower the car it tricks the system and elevates the problem??? Who knows?
Understeer got better after installing a strut brace. I was skeptical but it's really a huge differerence @@EtonieE25
Well there is a solution for understeer: go faster and go on gas earlier in the corners. A bit tougher and lower setup improves handling too.
I own a C4 and used to own a C2- the C4 is a far better car for daily use and track. Yes, I lose a bit of power through the drive chain- but a properly sorted car doesn't need power- Ask Jack Olsen about his Black Beauty II why he holds so many records at Willow Springs- it's about setting up the suspension to go through a corner fast- and the C4 can do that all day long in wet or dry- the C2 can't. Plus- build your motor for more power- FabSpeed header/dual exhaust- a Steve Wong Chip- and a supercharger or turbo are all you need to eclipse everything out there- the C4 can handle all that power upgrade with ease- and still keep all 4 wheels where they belong. THAT's performance. It's why the 959 was all wheel drive-"The twin-turbocharged 959 was the world's fastest street-legal production car when introduced, achieving a top speed of 317 km/h (197 mph), with some variants even capable of achieving 339 km/h (211 mph). It was one of the first high-performance sports cars with all-wheel drive, providing the basis for Porsche's first all-wheel drive 911 Carrera 4 model."- "nuff said.
C4 is a far worse car on track.. but a very good every day car on the road.
On the open road the C4 is unbeatable. On track the weight handicap is important, so it depends really if you do a lot of track days or not
Great video!! Really enjoy this one with multiple 964s with different setups. All great cars and all sound and looked fantastic. My re-geared 993 with rs suspension, lwf/rs clutch, ecu tune, 200 cell cats with loud mufflers would be an interesting addition to the pack. Keep the vids coming man!
thanks for the comments Sander! your 993 sounds awesome!!
I was always more the muscle car guy. Porsche had a too conservative(like most Germany cars - and I'm saying this as a german) design for me. But Californication did actually sell me on the 964 vibe. Now I'm in love with this model and actually only want one to a few(lol) muscle cars as like a second car or what as they are too bony for a daily driver. A 964 is perfect for a casual elegant but sporty daily driver. I'm going into monk mode, practice semen retention, read at least a book a week and up-skill towards multiple money making skills(Network marketing, coding, affiliate marketing, blogging, trading). See you on the countryside in 1-2 years. You can do it too. It's crazy what you can accomplish if you really concentrate for a year or two(Jordan Peterson) with some serious utilities like mentioned above(monk mode etc.). Don't dream, PLAN and systematically chunk down the steps needed to reach your goals. Perstistence is key.
The 964 is still the most beautiful of all the 911, followed directly by the 997.1
Wow, three beautiful cars, sounds and what a whizz, nice one chaps, shame it was so dusty. Great to see them driven properly. Cheers #27
”the light weight fly wheel keeps the revs up....“ 🤔 reeally???
Good content, but too loud music and bad sound recording (especially from the warehouse)
It's hard to understand with all that echo
jesse818 yep.. agree. Other films on the channel will be clearer. Thanks for watching though!
what a pity for the poor sound , good vid though :)
Settles the question: what car does Jesus drive...
HAHAHA!!!
The poor "audio" and transitions regarding the audio was very bad and not professional in any way on this video production... The good camera work is what made this even watchable.
great vid! I have a C4. I was able to dial out understeer, with stiffening the rear and softening the front. Then balance the front and rear weight transfer. 160Km and a fresh top end :), the car is awesome. The C2's I've tried perhaps has a little more lightness to the steering feel. But no loss in performance in a C4, and when it rains on a drive, I keep my right foot into it, without concern.
Cheers
Hey Christopher, my C4 in the video is heavily modified and won't understeer in normal conditions but in very tight corners there is nothing you can do to stop it as the PDAS locks the centre diff. Also, the thing I miss most is that you can only adjust cornering by letting off the throttle, not applying it as you can on a C2. As you mention C2 starring is a little lighter but thats not the main benefit. For me it is also about eliminating transmission losses and weight. And of course you're right, in the rain no C2 can beat a C4!
AAAhh, the music...lol
Sina Zahedinejad 😂
Nice video but the music is too loud and annoying ... don't really need it while you're talking ... but nice review, thanks.
Hey thanks.. the music always splits opinion but I don’t use it in my other stuff!
Buy the C2, and build it how you want. Problem solved...
Echo echo echo echo....
shittttyy audio why !?????
Because I’m an amateur! 😛
Jack P 😂😂❤️, keep it up buddy. we wanna see more porsche 964 videos
The chain......the beard......twatful;you have an RS, you dont need the urban woodsman accoutrements. Go the whole hog if you must. Plaid shirt and very stout footwear.
it's because he is the woodsman that he bought the rs. it's another accessory.
these cars have been badly molested
shut the F up!
Damn shit nonsense every bug looks same with different numbers. Started hating these Porsche 9 hundreds
Yawn! Stop waffling and just drive the f*cking cars