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The idea that Q was a document is looking at this from a very academic point of view. It assumes that someone wrote another document or, for that matter, a fifth gospel. I wonder who might have written that. The fact that there is no physical evidence for the document seems to indicate it never existed. Such an important document would surely have been preserved. When the Gospel writers were researching the events of the life of Jesus They would have interviewed people who knew Jesus and saw him. The accounts of his birth would have come from talkes with Mary.
Long ago There is an old story from India about the God, Brahma, who was all alone. Nothing existed but Brahma, and he was completely bored. Brahma decided to play a game, but there was no one to play the game with So he created a beautiful goddess, Maya, just for the purpose of having fun. Once Maya existed and Brahma told her the purpose of her existence, she said, "Okay, let's play the most wonderful game, but you do what I tell you to do." Brahma agreed and following Maya's instructions, he created the whole universe, the sun and the stars, the moon and the planets. He created life on earth: the animals, the oceans, the atmosphere, everything. Maya said, "How beautiful is this world of illusion you created. Now I want you to create an animal that is so intelligent and aware that it can appreciate your own creation." Finally Brahma created humans, and after he finished the creation, he asked Maya when the game was going to start. "We will start right now," she said. She took Brahma and cut him into thousands of teeny, tiny pieces. She put a piece inside every human and said, "Now the game begins! I am going to make you forget what you are, and you are going to try and find yourself!" Maya created the Dream and still, even today, Brahma is trying to remember who he is. When you awake from the Dream, you become Brahma again and reclaim your divinity. Brahma is the creator aspect of Brahman, The all pervading supreme Reality
Can you point me to the text that tells the story in such a simple way, or is this your own distillation of the much longer myths? I really like your short version. You summarized the vedanta myth very well.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
When you mentioned how the Christians were more prepared to care for the sick, risking their own lives, rather than the Pagans, perhaps it was often because they believed if they died they would go to heaven? Didn't St Augustine make suicide a mortal sin because so many early Christians were wanting to be martyred and committing suicide etc?(And escape oppressive masters and other circumstances ). If they died because of catching an illness that would be blameless?
I didn't know it comes from St. Augustine, protestant churches usually just attribute it to the "thou shall not kill" commandment and that's that. Illness depends on interpretation and circumstances, but doesn't equal suicide unless you use it and perceive in your mind and heart as one. Hmmm...
The only reason we have any of the texts from that. It's because it took a long time for them to multiply a number to the point where some of them would survive. Such as the Nagamani texts which were buried in A very arid place. This also happens with early human foot prints. There are times in ancient history one more foot prints were made them in other times. The fact that we only have a few dozen instances doesn't mean that there were only a few dozen people. It required millions of people making foot prints. And then we get a few of them.
my understanding was that the gospel of Thomas record of the sayings of Jesus at the time that they happened, and that this was later used by the apostles when they reconstructed the history for the four main gospels. And that it was essentially removed because it was just notes Perhaps other scholars will have some insight into this. Let me know if you have a vision
There were no gospels until the end of the second century, no apostles would have been alive then to write anything. This mythology follows the same formula common to every other mythology, none were rooted around real people or real deities.
Simple we Christians dont want to live worshipping spirit we need Jesus Christ in our life it makes us stronger that matters to me and we feel his presence Amen 🙏
I was excommunicated by 3 young Christians that approached me after I had already left the churchianity dogma. . I had started smoking a little sacramental weed and AS Jesus came eating and drinking ,I came toking and joking and they just couldnt stand how free i became and the Spirit showed in my face , a deep transformation that was undeniable . I slipped into silent bliss.
@@davidm1149 Sometimes we do things to reward ourselves for working hard, or just have fun. If the person wants us to burn forever in hell, then there is nothing wrong with seriously fu¢king with them.
@@cadcncengineeringfabricati3497 You may feel that way, but whatever you put out comes back. Besides, it's better to focus your energy elsewhere. I know how you feel, but many of those people are struggling with things. I know there's no talking them out of their " thought dilemma".
Maybe the Ancient Romans were bi-religious, and even Christianity and Islam are spectrums, so people switching Gods in Ancient Rome shouldn't be shocking afterall people move all the time, they move from their home to their job, from country to country, from language to language, and why not from religion to religion. I mean people even move from gender to gender, if some Ancient guy thought God A was better than God b , so what. The issue here is that Christianity and Islam are like the conservative parties of religion, they'd like for there to be no movement between religions, even within their own religions. Afterall the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria targeted Shia Muslims and other branches of Islam that they didn't see fit, Evangelicals regularly claim that Catholics and Mormons are going to hell, these religions want you to stay put, you can't even think about having friends from another religion when that's not how humans work. In Asia people move between religions all the time even the Christians, like Marie Kondo, she incorporates Shinto into her cleaning methods, meanwhile China combines Confuciusim, Buddhism and Socialism as a type State Religion meanwhile in Latin America and the Caribbean the Catholic Church has had to learn to share its own space with folk religions like Voodoo, Santería, indigenous beliefs like la Pachamama, and popular saints like La Santa Muerte and Eva Peron. The truth is religion is just another social construction like politics or the nation state itself.
@@nromk This whole idea is just perennialist nonsense. The issue being that if all religions are just social constricts, there is no access to real truth. If there is no access to real truth, then there is no way to know whether all religions are social constructs. And if you accept the idea on faith (which is the only way to save the concept) then you just create a lie for yourself that justifies what you wanted to believe in the first place.
I was more or less brainwashed into being saved when I was a wild, lost abused 16 year old teenager.. who dated another wild delinquent sex driven drug addict guy whose parents led me to Christ...😆. Those were some of the worst years of my life. I have never felt the presence of Jesus and now I know why. I am very spiritual though and have always felt the presence of a creator... Just not this jesus guy. Even as a little child I remember questioning what about the people who've never heard of him... Why are they condemned? And why would the greatest mind who knows all be all.. come up with the worst plan ever of sacrificing another human not to mention his only son to supposedly save us from sins. People still sin... Life on Earth is hell for many people so clearly the great all knowing God would have known this was a stupid plan. I knew that when i was 7
I was around the same age when I started questioning the narrative. I read the Bible few years later and it opened my eyes to the whole deception. I saw a cruel, evil entity in the OT, not a loving god. Jesus didn't appeal to me either, now I know why. It's sun worship and the NT is nothing more than astrological stories.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
@@termination9353wow it figures I find u again on YT running ur mouth with false info again. My friend You're so erroneous I dnt even kno where to start. But I can say u absolutely don't know anything about church history @ all my friend. Jus like u said before that Jesus had kids with Mary Magdalene. And ur evidence was at the cross in the Gospel of John. SMH🤦🏻♂️ Then you talk about how Rome hijacked the religion. My friend the Catholic Church is the church that canonized the books of the Bible in the late 4th century. Study it, fact it. Didn't happen until 381AD. The early church didn't have a Bible over 300 yrs. The United states of America is not even over 300 yrs old. Imagine the USA without the Constitution not being complete and without a supreme court as a nation. But yet the church did this for over 300 yrs. Bc when people needed answers they all went to the church not the bible alone.
@@termination9353 u really need to start reading church history. Read the Didache, read the early Apostolic church fathers for yourself. Go in depth as much as u can. See if there is continuity, see the consensus of teaching in the church fathers for 100s of years way b4 325AD. Go see if the 1st Christians were like Catholics r protestants... Go see for yourself. And please dnt say u have. Bc u most definitely have not...
Being born of water is only the first step. You must also remove the veil covering your eyes. It's why there were so many blind folk in the bible. Turn from water into wine. Jesus wasn't a drunk. Being a child is being w/o sin just like Adam & Eve when they ran naked through the garden, without knowledge. Do all children go to Heaven? Yes, including blind water babies in Christ.
Neal I think a wonderful segment would be on words intentionally mistranslated to impure it with theological principles - like “church” (assembly), or “grace”. When we can nail down clear concise instances of mistranslations at least we can make the fundamentalists think about the texts that they worship. I guess Crowley was being literal with his rhyme “there is no grace, there is no guilt, this is law : Do what thou wilt!” With Thelema and Agape both having a numerical value of 93 in Greek. This makes me wonder what other of his wittyisms are actually based on a better understanding of Greek.
A Mormon group is a great group to belong to?? For whom? Maybe men, but not women. I once was a Mormon, so I know about the promise of women's heavenly eternity as baby factories for their Kings' planets. Also, women get to share their Kings with other wives. Sounds inspiring, doesn't it?
Norman Dewitt wrote the book St Paul and Epicurus, where he argues at length that early Christian communities borrowed from or copied earlier Epicurean communities' activities and modes of organization and propagation, and even teachings (communion, writing of educational epistles, mutual aid, the categorizing of virtues and vices, etc.), and he's practically certain that the author(s) of certain portions of Paul's epistles must have studied under the Epicureans previously. The monastic tradition of hesuchia is today associated with Greek Orthodox Church but this word is actually in Epicurus' Principal Doctrine 14. Dewitt's other book Epicurus and his philosophy is also helpful to understand the types of communities that emerged during the Hellenistic era.
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
@@termination9353 While that sounds like a hella movie starring Nic Cage as Lazarus it is the perfect example of what I try to stay the hell away from. No offense. 🙂
Neil, I just watch this video again, and the thought came to my mind regarding the sayings of Jesus in the gospels. That is that some of the shorter sayings would’ve been easier for early followers of Jesus to remember, and to orally, pass along, whereas the longer wisdom traditions, like the beatitudes and the sermon on the mount would be very difficult for one person to memorize in the moment, unless they were writing them down, which would not have happened. So it is likely that the longer sayings are a form of what’s called soliloquy, which is a speech that’s given by a character in a play to themselves that can also be heard by other people. It is a literary device, whereby the speaker says his or her innermost thoughts out loud. So those longer quotations of Jesus were probably not actually said by him, but were attributed to him when the gospel authors were composing their works. For a literate person, reading the early gospel stories, they would’ve understood what they were reading was a soliloquy and would have taken it in its theatrical meaning.
In pre-Christian Greek εκκλησία (ekklesia) was used for any gathering, nothing to do with religion, as in "Εκκλησία του Δήμου", the City Assembly. Same with Ecclesiastes, one of the most secular books in the Septuagint, which is translated as "preacher" only by illiterate Americans. Glad that the wise professor straightens this out, but it should not have been necessary.
Ha ha ha ha ha, "... churchy translations." Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, that's it exactly. "For now we see through a glass, darkly..." versus "We are aware from this moment, between mirrors, in an enigmatic riddle. At that time, however, face to face, I am Aware, and have come to know, from that portion who is my destiny, in that moment however, I will know completely, as I have been known completely." WORLD of difference. "THANKS ROMANS!" Great video. All the best.
Anyone that is influenced by these teachings should read St Irenaeus. He was a student of St Polycarp who was a disciple of the apostle John. Irenaeus wrote 5 books titled Against Heresy. You will find in deep detail where these teachings and "gospels" came from.
Thank you so much for this wonderful discussion! My favorite part was at 54:54, digging into the interpretations of Jesus' saying in John 3, 3. Especially, 57:33, on 'becoming again a child' as the professor says, 'some sort of reorientation of self'! Rings true to me:-)
It’s baptism of the holy spirt that brings on this “quickening”. It’s a literal experience that feels like being electrocuted and pulled apart. It’s the science behind born of the spirit. It’s quantum entanglement. There is no backsliding from this.
8:33 that’s always what I’ve associated Grace with. We give thanks for the gift of food before meals by saying grace. I have earlier memories of grace at dinner than I do any religious association with the word.
There is another context that might be useful. I wonder how many groups and organizations, religious and non-religious, that either called themselves or were called by others an ecclesia or similar words. Consider Susan P. Mattern's "The Prince of Medicine: Galen in the Roman Empire." In it, Mattern describes groups of followers to various philosophers, physicians, teachers, gurus, etc. They would wander around Rome and challenge each other with feats, tests of knowledge, and debates. As such, groups like Jesus and his disciples would've been extremely common. There would've been nothing special about them. In the ancient world, almost everything people did was a social event, as determined by kinship, neighborhood, community, ethnicity, and religion. Even going to the doctor and the bathroom was often social in nature. The early Christian ecclesia might've been extremely informal gatherings of people. The earliest among them likely met in each other's homes or out in public areas or else away from where others lived. There likely was little religious accoutrements involved. That is to say calling their associations as 'churches' almost certainly would've been a massive misnomer.
Why not include John in the Q spreadsheet? Despite coming in later than the others or that he came forward at the end of his life after the drama when the others were written, and heavily influenced by a lifetime of mystical orientation, John claimed he was the ‘beloved disciple’, so there are going to be some factual aspects where he was present, like the story of Lazarus or in the order of events that would be helpful.
Love your interviews. Keep up the good work! Yogi Berra is famous for quotes, not quite like Aesop, and it's incredibly difficult to create new ones to attribute to Berra. Which of the ancient quotations stand out as most uniquely odd?
The issue I have with the discussion on Jesus existing is that, in the analogy Kloppenberg uses in Socrates, Plato wrote about Socrates because he actually knew the guy. There are countless contemporary accounts of Socrates, including sculptors like Lysippos who crafted reliefs of him; we know what he looked like, and we know the names, lives, deeds, and even occupations of the people who directly were tutored by him. Not just Plato, but a whole generation of people from philosophers, to historians, and military commanders who knew him or knew someone who knew him. No such equivalent record exists for Jesus. The earliest accounts of the man are from many decades following his alleged death, written by people who either didn't know him at all, or are writing in the guise of someone who did (it's generally understood that the authors attributed by the gospels are not actually the real authors). There is not a single contemporary account of Jesus, and a lot of the alternative sources, like Josephus and Tacitus, were translated by Church bishops; no original drafts of their work exist, so we have no way of knowing what was translated accurately, what was mistranslated, and what was added or removed in the edit. So basically the only sources we have of Jesus have either been written by people who have a vested interest in promoting his existence, or edited by the same category of people, and only decades later. Eventually the myth of his existence takes on a historical weight, and later historians start speaking of him as a real being, whether they like him or not, but again, that's not a direct, contemporary source the same way Plato is of Socrates.
the Nicolaitans were heretics of the time when the apostle John was still alive. They were of cognitive origin. So they, when they heard the preaching of Christianity, did not believe in Christ entirely, as Christ is offered, and abandon their old belief, but what did they do? they converted to Christianity, left nothing of what they used to hold, and mixed them up.
Wow, I thought I was bad for the "ahh" thing, but man, I have nothing on this brother. Makes it extremely, difficult to follow along with what he's trying to say.
i don't get the impression that "throwing them out" is the way they would associate with a tax collector... because the tax collector would come back with the roman soldiers. It more likely suggests to treat them with a distrustful respect or with the APPEARANCE of respect just enough to stay out of trouble. to treat them as tho they are NOT a friend, but to give them the minimum amount of respect necessary...
I feel Jesus is more of a concept and less of a person. The crucifixion is the shape your body takes when you channel Atlas. Kinda like Vecna’s victims but you stay in your chair. It’s how you reconnect to Khaos if you’re pagan. It fucking SUCKS but Buddha said it best, “to be human is to suffer.” Finding meaning in all your suffering brings you through some dark places.
"Paul is not going to repeat information that he already knows that his recipients know." Do you want to bet the farm on that Dr. Kloppenborg? Because in each letter he reiterates the basic gospel of Jesus Christ: that he was crucified, died for your sins and was buried, and rose the third day, or a part of it.
Jesus was announced as king of Israel in that choice between Jesus and Barabbas. Quickly said, Pilot dressed Jesus up as King, Pilot presented Jesus to the Sanhedrin and high priest among the crowd as "their King". Told the crowd to choose to crucify "their King" or Barabbas. The Saducees and High Priest chose "their king" Jesus to be crucified and instigated the Jewish crowd to choose "their King" to be crucified..... and so the Priesthood anointed Jesus as their king in order for him to be executed. And Pilat published this fact above Jesus head at a time when Jerusalem was most crowded of Jews from all over the realm. What this accomplished was to legalize according to Torah law Jesus' amended covenant and make irrelevant all burdensome Talmudic rules. I think Jesus and Pilat planned it together. Neet trick on the Sanhedrin huh.
@@gaiusjuliuswindex3801 yes Kings. I'm the king of the bottomless pit. Abaddon in Hebrew, Apollonian in the Greek tongue. But in the Latin hath his name, The Terminator.
Curious question, how do we know the ancient people didn’t right things down? Sure I understand the earlier societies but some sources for that claim would be awesome. Thanks!
Is there any sources for existence of Jesus during his own lifetime other then religious sources? If he existed, I'm really getting a sense his later religious followers were like the disciples of L. Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith.
As one who has been Saved by God though Jesus Christ his Son I know for a fact God is real from the amount of times he’s saved my life prior to being saved 33 years ago. My life has been guided by Holy Spirt for 33 years . You will never receive the hidden knowledge he gives to the ones who seek him an believe that every word in the Bible is Truth through Faith . Only then you will start to hear God’s wisdom an Knowledge that others strive an seek an can not find. Praise the Lord !
And Yeshua said to him, “I have spoken openly with the people, and at all times I have taught in the synagogue and in The Temple, where all of the Judeans assemble and I have spoken nothing in secret.” John 18-20 salvation is open to everyone it’s not secret. Some people are just choosing to close their eyes and Shut their ears I’m glad to see someone else who believes what is written is truth no Big Bang no evolution just the word.
What u described is a completely subjective experience and has absolutely nothing to do with what’s being discussed. It doesn’t progress the conversation and makes u sound like u voted for Trump.
I highly recommend the massive Rudolf Steiner collection of lectures and writings. You searching for Gnosis? Rudolf has it. Just know that Christ is who He claims.
If your bowing to statues of Jesus then your breaking a commandment. Would a new Jesus bow to a statue of himself? To understand this is to understand this is what it is about.
Read Mark 1, 3-11 ... and think to yourself: "This a play!" Mark's Gospel began life as a play ... which was altered and expanded into what we have today by whoever founded Catholicism.
In ecclesia I read the French église, whitch is church, but also our word class, a group of scholars in a classy situation of teaching and learning. May be cultic, cultural, philosofical or religious.
Ancient Fiction.@ray salmon As scholarly sources like the Oxford Annotated Bible note, the Gospels are not historical works (even if they contain some historical kernels). --------- dw04 The list of fathers include Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, etc. Further, the Muratorian Canon suggests that John was given the commission to write this gospel after Andrew received a vision indicating that he would do so. If one were to sift out the possible accretions in this statement, the bare fact of Johannine authorship is not disturbed. Finally, the anti-Marcionite Prologue also affirms Johannine authorship. Dan Wallace
ATTENTION!!! We can not hide our sins from God. Where will you go when you die, Heaven or Hell? Jesus Christ loves you and He died for our sins, three days later, He arose from the grave... Jesus is alive... REPENT and put your faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior today, we are not guaranteed tomorrow. ACTS 2:38 “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Manichaeans - Nicolaitans believe that the body was considered a source of evil, so they had to get rid of the sinful body. There were two ways of getting rid of the body to save the soul. One way was an oppression of the flesh, to the extent that I would die quickly. The Manichaeans followed this way from Manedas - Manis, of Manedos. Last year he, who had mixed up many things, had mixed up Buddhism and Persianism, had mixed up Christianity and Judaism and so on. Manis. But there was also the other side. I can destroy my body, without subjecting it to oppression. Why should I do this; I can also destroy my body with promiscuity, that is, with pleasures. When, for example, I eat a lot, drink a lot and get drunk, smoke a lot, take drugs, eh, will I live many years? Obviously I'm going to die. Obviously. Therefore why should I not destroy the body in this way by feasting my life? This is what the Nikolaitai did....and Sabataist continue at till today this cult
Understand it is koin Greek so yes some words have many meanings as ALLL Greece still pretty much uses all the different "ages" of the launguage Honestly its all in the Orthodox bible and the other books Wich are strait from the desipals
The Nicolaitans were Gnostics. All the Gnostics had one basic principle: dualism, the hierarchy, where we have two gods: the god of good and the god of evil. They even extended the hierarchy to the subject of heaven and spirit, and earth and matter, that heaven and spirit are the creation of this good god, while matter and the world are the creation of this evil god. Man is a creation of both gods; his spirit is a creation of the good god, and his body is a creation of the evil god - this is what the creator god is called: the evil god!
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
What Greek dictionary translates charis as "gift"? That word is a puzzle I've been trying to solve for years, but I don't remember ever seeing "gift" as a translation.
@@thedeviousgreek1540 Thank you. I have also learned that Χάρις corresponds to Latin _Gratia,_ both being proper names for the same goddess of grace and beauty (or for a group of them).
the hypothesis of a "Q" foundaton for the Gospels is falsified by the new understanding of the three descriptions of the Sign of Jonah as a trinity. It is very unlikely that the authors of the synoptic Gospels could have constructed this trinity on their own. Therefore, the idea that Jesus edited these Gospels needs to be considered.
@@truegematria7024 Jesus gave us three different descriptions of the Sign of Jonah, and he labeled each one, not as "a sign of Jonah," but as "the Sign of Jonah." In order for three different descriptons of something to all be the same thing implies that the three are somehow so intimately connected that they can be thought of as a single sign, i.e. a trinity. 1. In Luke 11 Jesus described his ministry as the Sign of Jonah, and that seems simple enough. 2. In Matthew 12 Jesus described his limited duration of burial as the Sign of Jonah. In the 20th century archaeological evidence was discovered that validated Jesus ancient prophecy of a short term burial. That evidence was the forensic examination of the images of Jesus' dead body that are on his burial shroud which indicates that the corpse in question was removed within about 40 hours of its internment. The images on the Shroud are connected to Jesus' ministry because they confirm that he was a real person who worked miracles. These images confirm Jesus' ministry and thereby become a part of that ministry. 3. The authenticity of the Shroud was contested in 1989 by scientists at the British Museum who wrongly interpreted the Shroud's radiocarbon evidence as an indication of a medieval date of origin. In Matthew 16 Jesus said, "You cannot interpret the signs of time," and he said that this was the Sign of Jonah. Jesus' definition of that sign in Matthew 16 can be seen as applying to the scientists at the Museum who, because of bias, could not correctly interprete the Shrouds' radiocarbon data (i.e. signs of time.) A correct interpretation of that data confirms the miraculous nature of the Shroud's images, and those images, in turn, confirm Jesus' ministry. See: "The Carbon Dating of the Shroud is Explained by Neutron Absorption," Rucker, 2020. See: "The Enigma of the Sign of Jonah," BSTS Shroud Newsletter, Summer 2023, No. 97, pg 42. BTW, Thanks for asking.
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You are on fire lately
❤
Would love you to unpack the Talmud of Emanuel....
The idea that Q was a document is looking at this from a very academic point of view. It assumes that someone wrote another document or, for that matter, a fifth gospel. I wonder who might have written that. The fact that there is no physical evidence for the document seems to indicate it never existed. Such an important document would surely have been preserved. When the Gospel writers were researching the events of the life of Jesus They would have interviewed people who knew Jesus and saw him. The accounts of his birth would have come from talkes with Mary.
@@francisrussell6831 the Theseus paradox
Am I the only person worried that Prof. Kloppenborg’s bookshelf isn’t sturdy enough? Great work as always.
Makes me wonder...
Which book, if removed, makes it all come tumbling down.😳
Wholeness and Balance ⚖️
LOL
Yes. Only you.
😊
Hope there's no EARTHQUAKES in his area. Of course, as for me, I'd love to end up buried beneath a wall of books.
Long ago There is an old story from India about the God, Brahma, who was all alone. Nothing existed but Brahma, and he was completely bored. Brahma decided to play a game, but there was no one to play the game with So he created a beautiful goddess, Maya, just for the purpose of having fun. Once Maya existed and Brahma told her the purpose of her existence, she said, "Okay, let's play the most wonderful game, but you do what I tell you to do." Brahma agreed and following Maya's instructions, he created the whole universe, the sun and the stars, the moon and the planets. He created life on earth: the animals, the oceans, the atmosphere, everything.
Maya said, "How beautiful is this world of illusion you created. Now I want you to create an animal that is so intelligent and aware that it can appreciate your own creation." Finally Brahma created humans, and after he finished the creation, he asked Maya when the game was going to start.
"We will start right now," she said. She took Brahma and cut him into thousands of teeny, tiny pieces. She put a piece inside every human and said, "Now the game begins! I am going to make you forget what you are, and you are going to try and find yourself!" Maya created the Dream and still, even today, Brahma is trying to remember who he is. When you awake from the Dream, you become Brahma again and reclaim your divinity.
Brahma is the creator aspect of Brahman, The all pervading supreme Reality
Can you point me to the text that tells the story in such a simple way, or is this your own distillation of the much longer myths? I really like your short version. You summarized the vedanta myth very well.
@@RLP7786I have heard this same basic thing from Alan Watts.
I have no clue about texts though or if it's an accurate telling
@@bobbiemiles-foremaniii8747 if you heard it from Watts, it certainly has no basis in actual Eastern traditions 😂
Wow. Thank you. So beautifully written. I could envision everything. I have never heard it explained so clearly. ❤
@@CrypticCocktails agreed
The fact that this is free .. thanks so much Neal
This is impressive critical thinking and scholarship. Thank you for your hard work!
Nill, I always enjoy your visuals. Thank you for taking the time to add them.
I think it’s Neil.
Thank you for the presentation. I agree we must explore early christian groups in the context of the era they existed in
Keep going , on the history is amazing
Excellent work sir! Great to be here!
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
Great stuff, Neal! 👍
Great video. I like this professor a lot
Theos Hypsistos coin with the pentagram is interesting because that was also a symbol used by Pythagoreans who also believed in Monotheism.
Actually, they embraced monism, NOT monotheism...2 very different perspectives.
When you mentioned how the Christians were more prepared to care for the sick, risking their own lives, rather than the Pagans, perhaps it was often because they believed if they died they would go to heaven? Didn't St Augustine make suicide a mortal sin because so many early Christians were wanting to be martyred and committing suicide etc?(And escape oppressive masters and other circumstances ). If they died because of catching an illness that would be blameless?
I’ve never witnessed a page flooded with confused idiots 😂😂😅
I didn't know it comes from St. Augustine, protestant churches usually just attribute it to the "thou shall not kill" commandment and that's that. Illness depends on interpretation and circumstances, but doesn't equal suicide unless you use it and perceive in your mind and heart as one. Hmmm...
FYI, the guy with grapes was Dionysus, the Greek wine god.
Dionysius was a party animal!
The only reason we have any of the texts from that. It's because it took a long time for them to multiply a number to the point where some of them would survive. Such as the Nagamani texts which were buried in A very arid place. This also happens with early human foot prints. There are times in ancient history one more foot prints were made them in other times. The fact that we only have a few dozen instances doesn't mean that there were only a few dozen people. It required millions of people making foot prints. And then we get a few of them.
my understanding was that the gospel of Thomas record of the sayings of Jesus at the time that they happened, and that this was later used by the apostles when they reconstructed the history for the four main gospels. And that it was essentially removed because it was just notes
Perhaps other scholars will have some insight into this. Let me know if you have a vision
Thomas was not a source for any of the four gospels.
There were no gospels until the end of the second century, no apostles would have been alive then to write anything.
This mythology follows the same formula common to every other mythology, none were rooted around real people or real deities.
Bro has 10 libraries of info I'd stay quiet too. I'd be so intrigued to listen.
good interviewers listen they don't talk
Simple we Christians dont want to live worshipping spirit we need Jesus Christ in our life it makes us stronger that matters to me and we feel his presence Amen 🙏
As always, great work. Thank you!
I was excommunicated by 3 young Christians that approached me after I had already left the churchianity dogma. . I had started smoking a little sacramental weed and AS Jesus came eating and drinking ,I came toking and joking and they just couldnt stand how free i became and the Spirit showed in my face , a deep transformation that was undeniable . I slipped into silent bliss.
How were you achieving anything by turning off people you know are indoctrinated and simply can't shake a belief system, or haven't tried?
@@davidm1149 Sometimes we do things to reward ourselves for working hard, or just have fun. If the person wants us to burn forever in hell, then there is nothing wrong with seriously fu¢king with them.
@@cadcncengineeringfabricati3497 You may feel that way, but whatever you put out comes back. Besides, it's better to focus your energy elsewhere. I know how you feel, but many of those people are struggling with things. I know there's no talking them out of their " thought dilemma".
@@davidm1149 says: _"Whatever you put out there comes back"_ Really? Prove it.
Throw up a Christmas Tree to Arminius, the defier of Rome! Much love to the anti-Romans.
If this is our best approximation, WE ARE DOOMED
I'm in the camp of Dr Richard Carrier in that there is no Q document. The author(s) of Luke just incorporated the Gospel of Matthew.
Professor Dr. Mark Goodacre of Duke says the same thing.
Maybe the Ancient Romans were bi-religious, and even Christianity and Islam are spectrums, so people switching Gods in Ancient Rome shouldn't be shocking afterall people move all the time, they move from their home to their job, from country to country, from language to language, and why not from religion to religion. I mean people even move from gender to gender, if some Ancient guy thought God A was better than God b , so what. The issue here is that Christianity and Islam are like the conservative parties of religion, they'd like for there to be no movement between religions, even within their own religions. Afterall the Islamic State in Iraq and Syria targeted Shia Muslims and other branches of Islam that they didn't see fit, Evangelicals regularly claim that Catholics and Mormons are going to hell, these religions want you to stay put, you can't even think about having friends from another religion when that's not how humans work. In Asia people move between religions all the time even the Christians, like Marie Kondo, she incorporates Shinto into her cleaning methods, meanwhile China combines Confuciusim, Buddhism and Socialism as a type State Religion meanwhile in Latin America and the Caribbean the Catholic Church has had to learn to share its own space with folk religions like Voodoo, Santería, indigenous beliefs like la Pachamama, and popular saints like La Santa Muerte and Eva Peron. The truth is religion is just another social construction like politics or the nation state itself.
@@nromk This whole idea is just perennialist nonsense. The issue being that if all religions are just social constricts, there is no access to real truth. If there is no access to real truth, then there is no way to know whether all religions are social constructs. And if you accept the idea on faith (which is the only way to save the concept) then you just create a lie for yourself that justifies what you wanted to believe in the first place.
The Romans were solely under the influence of Ahriman.
I was more or less brainwashed into being saved when I was a wild, lost abused 16 year old teenager.. who dated another wild delinquent sex driven drug addict guy whose parents led me to Christ...😆. Those were some of the worst years of my life. I have never felt the presence of Jesus and now I know why. I am very spiritual though and have always felt the presence of a creator... Just not this jesus guy. Even as a little child I remember questioning what about the people who've never heard of him... Why are they condemned? And why would the greatest mind who knows all be all.. come up with the worst plan ever of sacrificing another human not to mention his only son to supposedly save us from sins. People still sin... Life on Earth is hell for many people so clearly the great all knowing God would have known this was a stupid plan. I knew that when i was 7
I was around the same age when I started questioning the narrative. I read the Bible few years later and it opened my eyes to the whole deception. I saw a cruel, evil entity in the OT, not a loving god. Jesus didn't appeal to me either, now I know why. It's sun worship and the NT is nothing more than astrological stories.
I didn't think Christianity never made sense to me either.
Thanks!
Yo
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
@@termination9353wow it figures I find u again on YT running ur mouth with false info again. My friend
You're so erroneous I dnt even kno where to start. But I can say u absolutely don't know anything about church history @ all my friend.
Jus like u said before that Jesus had kids with Mary Magdalene. And ur evidence was at the cross in the Gospel of John. SMH🤦🏻♂️
Then you talk about how Rome hijacked the religion. My friend the Catholic Church is the church that canonized the books of the Bible in the late 4th century. Study it, fact it. Didn't happen until 381AD. The early church didn't have a Bible over 300 yrs.
The United states of America is not even over 300 yrs old. Imagine the USA without the Constitution not being complete and without a supreme court as a nation.
But yet the church did this for over 300 yrs. Bc when people needed answers they all went to the church not the bible alone.
@@termination9353 u really need to start reading church history. Read the Didache, read the early Apostolic church fathers for yourself. Go in depth as much as u can.
See if there is continuity, see the consensus of teaching in the church fathers for 100s of years way b4 325AD. Go see if the 1st Christians were like Catholics r protestants...
Go see for yourself. And please dnt say u have. Bc u most definitely have not...
@@onlylove556 You are naive or just plain evil in this day and age to not realize history is revisioned made up lies. Especially church history.
I've almost made it through the credentials and source discussions, and I'm 27 minutes in. Hope it was worth the wait 😂
I always thought that born again and be like children was addressing the same esoteric issue.
A state of mind.
i had thought it might have referred to child-like innocence
Being born of water is only the first step. You must also remove the veil covering your eyes. It's why there were so many blind folk in the bible. Turn from water into wine. Jesus wasn't a drunk. Being a child is being w/o sin just like Adam & Eve when they ran naked through the garden, without knowledge. Do all children go to Heaven? Yes, including blind water babies in Christ.
This is fire 🔥
This was really interesting!
Neal I think a wonderful segment would be on words intentionally mistranslated to impure it with theological principles - like “church” (assembly), or “grace”.
When we can nail down clear concise instances of mistranslations at least we can make the fundamentalists think about the texts that they worship.
I guess Crowley was being literal with his rhyme “there is no grace, there is no guilt, this is law : Do what thou wilt!”
With Thelema and Agape both having a numerical value of 93 in Greek.
This makes me wonder what other of his wittyisms are actually based on a better understanding of Greek.
A Mormon group is a great group to belong to?? For whom? Maybe men, but not women. I once was a Mormon, so I know about the promise of women's heavenly eternity as baby factories for their Kings' planets. Also, women get to share their Kings with other wives. Sounds inspiring, doesn't it?
I took it that he was referring to their social networks. Not the religion.
As you said, for men.
Norman Dewitt wrote the book St Paul and Epicurus, where he argues at length that early Christian communities borrowed from or copied earlier Epicurean communities' activities and modes of organization and propagation, and even teachings (communion, writing of educational epistles, mutual aid, the categorizing of virtues and vices, etc.), and he's practically certain that the author(s) of certain portions of Paul's epistles must have studied under the Epicureans previously. The monastic tradition of hesuchia is today associated with Greek Orthodox Church but this word is actually in Epicurus' Principal Doctrine 14. Dewitt's other book Epicurus and his philosophy is also helpful to understand the types of communities that emerged during the Hellenistic era.
love me some gnostic informant
Excellent content. I loved the measured takes Prof Kloppenborg has. We don't want theories we want sources lol
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
Yes
@@termination9353 While that sounds like a hella movie starring Nic Cage as Lazarus it is the perfect example of what I try to stay the hell away from. No offense. 🙂
@@Vina_Ravyn Bootlicker response. No offense. 🙂
@@Vina_Ravyn Yep 😂
I love this channel! Good guest !
Great episode, 👍
Way to class things up around here, Dr. K!
Neil, I just watch this video again, and the thought came to my mind regarding the sayings of Jesus in the gospels. That is that some of the shorter sayings would’ve been easier for early followers of Jesus to remember, and to orally, pass along, whereas the longer wisdom traditions, like the beatitudes and the sermon on the mount would be very difficult for one person to memorize in the moment, unless they were writing them down, which would not have happened. So it is likely that the longer sayings are a form of what’s called soliloquy, which is a speech that’s given by a character in a play to themselves that can also be heard by other people. It is a literary device, whereby the speaker says his or her innermost thoughts out loud. So those longer quotations of Jesus were probably not actually said by him, but were attributed to him when the gospel authors were composing their works. For a literate person, reading the early gospel stories, they would’ve understood what they were reading was a soliloquy and would have taken it in its theatrical meaning.
You make such good content.
Thank you. Watching from Alaska.
I always learn so much here.
Neal, fantastic interview w/ Dr. Kloppenberg.
In pre-Christian Greek εκκλησία (ekklesia) was used for any gathering, nothing to do with religion, as in "Εκκλησία του Δήμου", the City Assembly. Same with Ecclesiastes, one of the most secular books in the Septuagint, which is translated as "preacher" only by illiterate Americans. Glad that the wise professor straightens this out, but it should not have been necessary.
Yep
Ha ha ha ha ha, "... churchy translations." Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha, that's it exactly. "For now we see through a glass, darkly..." versus "We are aware from this moment, between mirrors, in an enigmatic riddle. At that time, however, face to face, I am Aware, and have come to know, from that portion who is my destiny, in that moment however, I will know completely, as I have been known completely." WORLD of difference. "THANKS ROMANS!" Great video. All the best.
Anyone that is influenced by these teachings should read St Irenaeus. He was a student of St Polycarp who was a disciple of the apostle John. Irenaeus wrote 5 books titled Against Heresy. You will find in deep detail where these teachings and "gospels" came from.
Love this content
That early deciption of Jesus looks to me more like Mithra than Orpheus and there are so many similarities between Mithra adn christ.
Well done 👍
Thank you so much for this wonderful discussion! My favorite part was at 54:54, digging into the interpretations of Jesus' saying in John 3, 3. Especially, 57:33, on 'becoming again a child' as the professor says, 'some sort of reorientation of self'! Rings true to me:-)
It’s baptism of the holy spirt that brings on this “quickening”. It’s a literal experience that feels like being electrocuted and pulled apart. It’s the science behind born of the spirit. It’s quantum entanglement. There is no backsliding from this.
Excellent, many thanks for this, Professor Kloppenberg has shown me the answers to many questions that I had. Again I thank you
Really enjoying this so far !
8:33 that’s always what I’ve associated Grace with. We give thanks for the gift of food before meals by saying grace. I have earlier memories of grace at dinner than I do any religious association with the word.
Does that big book come with a lectern? Thanks for all you do!
Lol
There is another context that might be useful. I wonder how many groups and organizations, religious and non-religious, that either called themselves or were called by others an ecclesia or similar words.
Consider Susan P. Mattern's "The Prince of Medicine: Galen in the Roman Empire." In it, Mattern describes groups of followers to various philosophers, physicians, teachers, gurus, etc.
They would wander around Rome and challenge each other with feats, tests of knowledge, and debates. As such, groups like Jesus and his disciples would've been extremely common. There would've been nothing special about them.
In the ancient world, almost everything people did was a social event, as determined by kinship, neighborhood, community, ethnicity, and religion. Even going to the doctor and the bathroom was often social in nature.
The early Christian ecclesia might've been extremely informal gatherings of people. The earliest among them likely met in each other's homes or out in public areas or else away from where others lived.
There likely was little religious accoutrements involved. That is to say calling their associations as 'churches' almost certainly would've been a massive misnomer.
Why not include John in the Q spreadsheet? Despite coming in later than the others or that he came forward at the end of his life after the drama when the others were written, and heavily influenced by a lifetime of mystical orientation, John claimed he was the ‘beloved disciple’, so there are going to be some factual aspects where he was present, like the story of Lazarus or in the order of events that would be helpful.
Thank you both for your objective and outstanding work!!
What is the name of the song you use in your clips. It always sounds so epic
Love your interviews. Keep up the good work! Yogi Berra is famous for quotes, not quite like Aesop, and it's incredibly difficult to create new ones to attribute to Berra. Which of the ancient quotations stand out as most uniquely odd?
Good interview and informative
one of my faves.
Omega-Level-Guest
great info!
The issue I have with the discussion on Jesus existing is that, in the analogy Kloppenberg uses in Socrates, Plato wrote about Socrates because he actually knew the guy. There are countless contemporary accounts of Socrates, including sculptors like Lysippos who crafted reliefs of him; we know what he looked like, and we know the names, lives, deeds, and even occupations of the people who directly were tutored by him. Not just Plato, but a whole generation of people from philosophers, to historians, and military commanders who knew him or knew someone who knew him.
No such equivalent record exists for Jesus. The earliest accounts of the man are from many decades following his alleged death, written by people who either didn't know him at all, or are writing in the guise of someone who did (it's generally understood that the authors attributed by the gospels are not actually the real authors). There is not a single contemporary account of Jesus, and a lot of the alternative sources, like Josephus and Tacitus, were translated by Church bishops; no original drafts of their work exist, so we have no way of knowing what was translated accurately, what was mistranslated, and what was added or removed in the edit.
So basically the only sources we have of Jesus have either been written by people who have a vested interest in promoting his existence, or edited by the same category of people, and only decades later. Eventually the myth of his existence takes on a historical weight, and later historians start speaking of him as a real being, whether they like him or not, but again, that's not a direct, contemporary source the same way Plato is of Socrates.
I love that, he says given the data we have, that is all we can say responsibly.
Very interesting interview!
What if the churches referred to bt the epistles of Paul where only group assemblies of Jewish diaspora?
the Nicolaitans were heretics of the time when the apostle John was still alive. They were of cognitive origin.
So they, when they heard the preaching of Christianity, did not believe in Christ entirely, as Christ is offered, and abandon their old belief, but what did they do? they converted to Christianity, left nothing of what they used to hold, and mixed them up.
Ha
Ywa
firmly of the opinion that the hypsistarians and sabazios were not Jewish, but from the Assyrian displacement of Northern Israel
Your subscriber count is missing a 0
you too!
Wow, I thought I was bad for the "ahh" thing, but man, I have nothing on this brother. Makes it extremely, difficult to follow along with what he's trying to say.
He’s great 👍
15:04 "This has nothing to do with Trusting any Plans, I assure you."
i don't get the impression that "throwing them out" is the way they would associate with a tax collector... because the tax collector would come back with the roman soldiers. It more likely suggests to treat them with a distrustful respect or with the APPEARANCE of respect just enough to stay out of trouble. to treat them as tho they are NOT a friend, but to give them the minimum amount of respect necessary...
You mentioned the Paparous script Where did these scripts come from?
Who wrote them?
I feel Jesus is more of a concept and less of a person.
The crucifixion is the shape your body takes when you channel Atlas. Kinda like Vecna’s victims but you stay in your chair.
It’s how you reconnect to Khaos if you’re pagan.
It fucking SUCKS but Buddha said it best, “to be human is to suffer.”
Finding meaning in all your suffering brings you through some dark places.
"Paul is not going to repeat information that he already knows that his recipients know."
Do you want to bet the farm on that Dr. Kloppenborg? Because in each letter he reiterates the basic gospel of Jesus Christ: that he was crucified, died for your sins and was buried, and rose the third day, or a part of it.
Jesus was announced as king of Israel in that choice between Jesus and Barabbas. Quickly said, Pilot dressed Jesus up as King, Pilot presented Jesus to the Sanhedrin and high priest among the crowd as "their King". Told the crowd to choose to crucify "their King" or Barabbas. The Saducees and High Priest chose "their king" Jesus to be crucified and instigated the Jewish crowd to choose "their King" to be crucified..... and so the Priesthood anointed Jesus as their king in order for him to be executed. And Pilat published this fact above Jesus head at a time when Jerusalem was most crowded of Jews from all over the realm.
What this accomplished was to legalize according to Torah law Jesus' amended covenant and make irrelevant all burdensome Talmudic rules.
I think Jesus and Pilat planned it together. Neet trick on the Sanhedrin huh.
@@termination9353Melechim
@@gaiusjuliuswindex3801 yes Kings. I'm the king of the bottomless pit. Abaddon in Hebrew, Apollonian in the Greek tongue. But in the Latin hath his name, The Terminator.
I find in Toronto you get the warehouse churches. Everyone and their uncle are a preacher. I guess they have their thing
Sweet! Ordered it. Thanks, Neil.
Same
Not a bad price either
@@MarySmith-mu9db list at $44, Amazon selling at $12.02
@@athame9072 can’t beat it
Curious question, how do we know the ancient people didn’t right things down? Sure I understand the earlier societies but some sources for that claim would be awesome. Thanks!
The Kingdom of God is Here, just find your local embassy on every other street corner. Jesus is King!
Is there any sources for existence of Jesus during his own lifetime other then religious sources? If he existed, I'm really getting a sense his later religious followers were like the disciples of L. Ron Hubbard and Joseph Smith.
As one who has been Saved by God though Jesus Christ his Son I know for a fact God is real from the amount of times he’s saved my life prior to being saved 33 years ago. My life has been guided by Holy Spirt for 33 years . You will never receive the hidden knowledge he gives to the ones who seek him an believe that every word in the Bible is Truth through Faith . Only then you will start to hear God’s wisdom an Knowledge that others strive an seek an can not find. Praise the Lord !
The Holy Spirit is Wisdom, O Birther, the creators Heavenly wife,read Sirach, Titus was the Christ, Serapis Chrestus.
You saved yourself by going to ‘the upper room’ ‘to heaven’ ‘up the mountain.’ In other words, your higher consciousness- your God consciousness! 🤍
And Yeshua said to him, “I have spoken openly with the people, and at all times I have taught in the synagogue and in The Temple, where all of the Judeans assemble and I have spoken nothing in secret.” John 18-20
salvation is open to everyone it’s not secret. Some people are just choosing to close their eyes and Shut their ears I’m glad to see someone else who believes what is written is truth no Big Bang no evolution just the word.
@@justinsevers329 AMEN✝️🙏❤️🥰
What u described is a completely subjective experience and has absolutely nothing to do with what’s being discussed. It doesn’t progress the conversation and makes u sound like u voted for Trump.
I highly recommend the massive Rudolf Steiner collection of lectures and writings. You searching for Gnosis?
Rudolf has it.
Just know that Christ is who He claims.
NO, NO, NO. You start from a presupposition that there was a real guy, a guru, and real people followed him. Prove it first.
Said whom? 😂🤡
You even watched the video? Fedora Neckbeard spotted 😂
@@MrAlepedroza The neckbeard was jesus.
@@cadcncengineeringfabricati3497to reply to your comment I feel Jesus existed it's just not what religion describe but I get your idea
The videos titled the Real Jesus
If your bowing to statues of Jesus then your breaking a commandment.
Would a new Jesus bow to a statue of himself?
To understand this is to understand this is what it is about.
Easy: “I’ll dance dance dance with my hands hands hands above my head head head” 🤷🏻♀️😆😆😆😆
Your gonna listen to ignio Lopez ? He died an unbeliever and was a significant force behind the east Indian trade co.
Read Mark 1, 3-11 ... and think to yourself: "This a play!" Mark's Gospel began life as a play ... which was altered and expanded into what we have today by whoever founded Catholicism.
Y not self delete if we r trapped in hell ? Do u have to escape from a cycle via some sort of flesh ritual
Great interview.
In ecclesia I read the French église, whitch is church, but also our word class, a group of scholars in a classy situation of teaching and learning. May be cultic, cultural, philosofical or religious.
Good video
TRUE GNOSIS, baby!!!
I start the video and bro says, We have a number of Saiyans"
Look out Frieza force.
Ancient Fiction.@ray salmon As scholarly sources like the Oxford Annotated Bible note, the Gospels are not historical works (even if they contain some historical kernels).
---------
dw04 The list of fathers include Tertullian, Clement of Alexandria, Origen, etc.
Further, the Muratorian Canon suggests that John was given the commission to write this gospel after Andrew received a vision indicating that he would do so.
If one were to sift out the possible accretions in this statement, the bare fact of Johannine authorship is not disturbed. Finally, the anti-Marcionite Prologue also affirms Johannine authorship. Dan Wallace
I was under the impression that Q was largely debunked.
The weirdos are out in force tonight
Lol wtf
So strange to be mad at this
@@ςοςτρε talking about the comments section
@@Jd-808 same
ATTENTION!!! We can not hide our sins from God. Where will you go when you die, Heaven or Hell? Jesus Christ loves you and He died for our sins, three days later, He arose from the grave... Jesus is alive... REPENT and put your faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior today, we are not guaranteed tomorrow.
ACTS 2:38 “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.
Manichaeans - Nicolaitans believe that the body was considered a source of evil, so they had to get rid of the sinful body.
There were two ways of getting rid of the body to save the soul. One way was an oppression of the flesh, to the extent that I would die quickly. The Manichaeans followed this way from Manedas - Manis, of Manedos. Last year he, who had mixed up many things, had mixed up Buddhism and Persianism, had mixed up Christianity and Judaism and so on. Manis. But there was also the other side. I can destroy my body, without subjecting it to oppression. Why should I do this; I can also destroy my body with promiscuity, that is, with pleasures. When, for example, I eat a lot, drink a lot and get drunk, smoke a lot, take drugs, eh, will I live many years? Obviously I'm going to die. Obviously. Therefore why should I not destroy the body in this way by feasting my life? This is what the Nikolaitai did....and Sabataist continue at till today this cult
Then there’s Kieth Richards 🎸
@@matthewmaguire3554 😂
Understand it is koin Greek so yes some words have many meanings as ALLL Greece still pretty much uses all the different "ages" of the launguage
Honestly its all in the Orthodox bible and the other books Wich are strait from the desipals
The Nicolaitans were Gnostics. All the Gnostics had one basic principle: dualism, the hierarchy, where we have two gods: the god of good and the god of evil. They even extended the hierarchy to the subject of heaven and spirit, and earth and matter, that heaven and spirit are the creation of this good god, while matter and the world are the creation of this evil god. Man is a creation of both gods; his spirit is a creation of the good god, and his body is a creation of the evil god - this is what the creator god is called: the evil god!
The Gospel of Jesus was originally one book, written by Lazarus in consultation with the Apostles [John 21:24] and published soon after Jesus left them on their own. The religion was hijacked by Rome, the Gospel was broken up scrambled adulterated into a bunch of competing narratives. Later four of those adulterated gospels were canonized with falsely ascribed authorship and a Gnosticism cover-story. It was the finding of an original Gospel of Jesus scroll in Jerusalem that gained the Knights Templar power over the Church and their eventual undoing when the church finally retaliated against them Friday 13th.
Pooop 😮
@@termination9353huh
@@termination9353 i agree
@@gaiusjuliuswindex3801 What are you a child?
why are you so desperate to get scholars to confirm Jesus existed?
What Greek dictionary translates charis as "gift"? That word is a puzzle I've been trying to solve for years, but I don't remember ever seeing "gift" as a translation.
Is it maybe an Attic definition?
Charis as something that is given to you for your own benefit through the givers generosity, usually used for something divine but not exclusively.
@@thedeviousgreek1540 Thank you. I have also learned that Χάρις corresponds to Latin _Gratia,_ both being proper names for the same goddess of grace and beauty (or for a group of them).
What did Jesus say?
the hypothesis of a "Q" foundaton for the Gospels is falsified by the new understanding of the three descriptions of the Sign of Jonah as a trinity. It is very unlikely that the authors of the synoptic Gospels could have constructed this trinity on their own. Therefore, the idea that Jesus edited these Gospels needs to be considered.
Don’t ever embarrass yourself like that again
@@truegematria7024 Jesus gave us three different descriptions of the Sign of Jonah, and he labeled each one, not as "a sign of Jonah," but as "the Sign of Jonah."
In order for three different descriptons of something to all be the same thing implies that the three are somehow so intimately connected that they can be thought of as a single sign, i.e. a trinity.
1. In Luke 11 Jesus described his ministry as the Sign of Jonah, and that seems simple enough.
2. In Matthew 12 Jesus described his limited duration of burial as the Sign of Jonah. In the 20th century archaeological evidence was discovered that validated Jesus ancient prophecy of a short term burial. That evidence was the forensic examination of the images of Jesus' dead body that are on his burial shroud which indicates that the corpse in question was removed within about 40 hours of its internment. The images on the Shroud are connected to Jesus' ministry because they confirm that he was a real person who worked miracles. These images confirm Jesus' ministry and thereby become a part of that ministry.
3. The authenticity of the Shroud was contested in 1989 by scientists at the British Museum who wrongly interpreted the Shroud's radiocarbon evidence as an indication of a medieval date of origin. In Matthew 16 Jesus said, "You cannot interpret the signs of time," and he said that this was the Sign of Jonah. Jesus' definition of that sign in Matthew 16 can be seen as applying to the scientists at the Museum who, because of bias, could not correctly interprete the Shrouds' radiocarbon data (i.e. signs of time.) A correct interpretation of that data confirms the miraculous nature of the Shroud's images, and those images, in turn, confirm Jesus' ministry.
See: "The Carbon Dating of the Shroud is Explained by Neutron Absorption," Rucker, 2020.
See: "The Enigma of the Sign of Jonah," BSTS Shroud Newsletter, Summer 2023, No. 97, pg 42.
BTW, Thanks for asking.
Jesus was based on Dyonisus