Earlier Mercedes 107 versus later 107's
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- čas přidán 28. 08. 2024
- This video is about Earlier Mercedes 107 versus later 107's
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I have a ‘73 450 SL that has been in the family since new. I love the symphony of the powerful engine, the unparalleled comfort of the seats and the iconic profile of the design. Well maintained it’s a joy after all these years
I'm not even a Mercedes guy, but as someone that enjoys learning about all sorts of cars in general, I wanted to let you know that I appreciated this video. Your low-key, straightforward approach is refreshing in this day and age. It is reflective of my belief that those who really know what they're talking about don't need all of the drama and hype that is so prevalent on CZcams and social media in general these days.
We really appreciate you VirtualGuth for viewing our videos and leaving a comment. I tried to read as many as I can and take your responses for consideration on future videos.
Thomas Polk
CZcams Creator.
Pierre is the best, walking encyclopedia on benz's
My daily driver is a 350slc eurospec 1973. Higher compression ratio, crisp shifting 3 speed auto, power windows, sunroof, alloy wheels. Always gets plenty of looks from the public. It is the CLASSIC MB.
Pierre, Tom G From Calif. Purchased 89 560 SL last Sept., I have never owed such an awesome, amazing, engineered , smooth riding, road feeling, head turning car as this is in my life, absolutely nothing I know of compares to this,
I'm glad you're enjoying it
I guess I’m glad to hear no good or bad for the 1982 380 SL. Timing chain was redone.
Always learn something new with Pierre. Thank you so much
you have a good point about American bumpers. I have a new appreciation for them now.
I love the big bumpers and I live in Europe
Same here!
Sure, they do what bumpers are supposed to do--protect the vehicle. Today's vehicles with no bumpers full off little dents, scratches, and abrasions that reveal some other color under the paint is just ridiculous to me. Some even buy "portable" rubber pads that hang over the bottom of the trunk opening. What??
I have a '73 Euro 350SL... Agree with your thoughts! D-Jet has caused me a lot of pain and happiness in equal measure. Thanks for sharing.
My 1989 560SL still passes California smog with no issues and runs like a Swiss watch. Then again, it's been in the family sinc 1992.
Great talk...would like to hear the same conversation re: Euro 107s
The people have spoken! Will do.
@@thisisnightshop2037 Ditto, really great info, but I'd like the gen on euro 107s too pls!
I second or rather 3rd that!
I have an 1984 280SL and its lovely, i just wish it didnt have to go to garage so often!!
It was mentioned in the video, but let me also emphasize: If you live in California you will have a much easier time with the 72 and 73 model years because they are exempt from smog inspections. The 560 SL's are the next best option because the fuel/ignition/emission system on these cars was fairly well sorted out by then.
Appreciate the lesson Pierre. Such great batch of information and as I get closer to freeing up garage space this invaluable for me. Thank you!
Pierre I think it would a good idea to do a video on your early life in Lebanon. Old w123s and w115s still taxi around all day there! I’m very curious!
Yep, love the Silver Green!!! Thanks again, Pierre!!
Funny to hear that you recommend a Euro car and we in Europe buy all the 560SL from US because we cannot afford any 500SL from Europe anymore. Prices got crazy here.
Can you take a 560sl and make it a Euro cosmetically? How would that compare?
@@dickjones3009 yes of course, that's what I did with my 560SL I imported from California a few years ago. A lot of work and not very cheep, but the euro look is so much more attraktive than the bulky US bumpers and the headlights.
@@Martin_Lauter Cool. Thanks for getting back. I completely agree about the bumpers; I'm kind of a fence rider on the lights. I kind of thing the two lights on each side is more attractive. Does the car drive and seem just like a 500 SL?
If you move to a Euro bumper conversion, are you still just as safe?
@@dickjones3009 Looks like an 500SL but is not as powerful as an original 500SL.
Great episode - gonna send you pics of my 450 SLC 5.0 soon!
I can't wait
Your damn right about the bumpers Pierre! Especially here in soflo🤣
I love my simple, pure, uncomplicated, Euro-spec *1972 350SL* ... no front spoiler or driving lights; no electric windows or air con; no woodgrain interior; and no boot _(trunk)_ spoiler. Because I grew up with basic 1950's & 60's British & European cars, I actually prefer the minimalist early 107's - they are somehow more _'classic'_ than the later cars, which seem more _'modern'_ to me. I even prefer the early Mexican hat wheels.
I love these early 107s!!!!
I agree. I'm still looking for a low option 6 cylinder EUROSPEC manual SLC, 71,72,73.
Such an informative video, thank you
Love my English red '77 450SL, shes a beast. Got clipped in the monster rear bumper by a Buick encore, ripped the front fascia off the Buick, just a scrape on my rubber bumper end cap. It's the first Mercedes I've owed, first car i did what for me would be major work (wound in a new timing chain, changed the upper guides, new tensioner). That car led me to my second Mercedes, a 2011 GLK. An ok car, good in the snow. And that led to the third member of the fleet, a 1983 240D manual. Love the channel, keep it up.
Nice work! And glad the car survived
I have two '73s and love them for the reasons you mention. More spartan, mine both have hubcaps rather than Bundts, small bumpers, one light blue the other dark blue. I have had fewer issues with D-Jetronic than I had with K on a '79. The 72s feel better to drive to me and better power by some bit. The 560's bring the highest prices in today's market for sure, but to me the early cars are the most attractive and it's perplexing why they don't get more love in the market. Also 100% agree the early cars have soul.
Bought a low mileage 560SL a year ago. Great car. This video provided a lot of great into... if a bit painful to get through.
Looking forward to you performing your magic on my 350SL when we do the swap with the two cars that you have now. With my R107 being manufactured 11/71 it has the roll up windows and I would have it no other way. LOL. Great video on the comparisons.
Thank you
Wow, I wish I could get roll up windows. They are just so cool and no motors to worry about.
Good discussion. Thanks...I have owned a '73 and currently own a '77. Pretty good machines.
Thank you so much for your valued insight.
I love the Gran Turismo 4 -esque music
Just got a ‘72 350SL US car. It’s definitely got soul! Thanks for you videos!!
We really appreciate you Chris Purpura for viewing our videos and leaving a comment. I tried to read as many as I can and take your responses for consideration on future videos.
Thomas Polk
CZcams Creator.
@@mercedesclassicswithpierre1753 Awesome. Is there a good online forum for these early 107's? I've looked at a few but they seem to be all years/models mercedes. In the Porsche world we have an early 911 forum, or 356 registry which are very specific to years and models so we can go deeper. I know there's one for Pagodas W113's, which looks similar to what I'm used to, but nothing I can find for 107's.
No mention of the 4.5 Euro??? This conversation seems to be mostly about the US 107s. Note that the biggest "advancements" after the introduction of the 3.5 was probably the Euro 4.5 that introduced the anti-squat rear end and over 220HP so very close to 5.6 power in 1973. And then the 5.0 with the 5.0 SLC and 500sl. Yes, bigger valves were a nice addition in 1986 too.
You're right. The euro 450 is amazing
Thanks yet again, Pierre! I've never owned an R107, but I've always liked them. Maybe one of these days! Good information, if I ever do go down that path. They're definitely classics (and classy)!!!!
And decent value for the money
Great review Pierre! Strong car. I have a red euro 72 sl with a 4.5 engine and roll up windows. Great fun to drive. The only draw back: your feet get to hot from the engine. Wouldn't change it for a 560sl.
The early cars are the most fun
Trust me my feet get hot in the 560 too!!
Nice video! I just have one thing I want to mention in polite disagreement to your statement about emissions testing... I actually think that this is a very good thing for most cars (the ones that are NOT fastidiously maintained anyway), as it forces the owner to repair things that really should be repaired anyway for the car to operate at an optimal level (in most cases anyway).
In this case I agree. By 1977 the emissions equipment was really pretty good
So pleased I have an early Australian delivered ( Euro version) 1973 450SL. I agree the simplicity of this version to be it's feature for future collectability...even down to the wind up windows!
a car will never be collectible because it has roll up windows
@@SeamHead33 Agreed...that will never be the ONLY reason. Earliest versions of vehicles have proven over time to be more collectible. It may well be that I'll be dead an buried before mine is but it's nice to dream!
@@markjoosten6852 roger that
All Ferraris had roll ups until 1965
@@SeamHead33 They (early R107's) are already collectable. Just like early Jaguars, Mustangs, Aston Martins, Alfa Romeos, Ferraris, MGs, etc, etc, all with manual roll up windows.
Pierre, you should write a book. I have just download the youtube subtitles into a word document so I can read them later while I research the models you mentioned online. You actually said 1500 words in this short video and you could make an interesting illustrated book with all the knowledge you have. It wouldn't cost you a thing, (other than time) and you could crowd fund it to raise revenue for other projects. If you were to collaborate with other respected Mercedes specialists, it could be wonderful
Which I heard this before I bought my first R107, a 75. I had had a 83 and now an 85 380SL which I love. Don't like the rear brake lights on the trunk or spoilers of the 86-89. Also have a 72 W114 250 and 87 W124 I absolutely live. Unfortunately I sold my 65 manual 4-speed W113 after the 08 Meltdown my only true regret. Thank you again for the always great content, presentation and sharing your knowledge and experience.
Really interesting video Pierre. I don't have a 107 but I have a d jetronic Euro 280SE and appreciate how lively the engine is. No major issues with d jetronic. Recently bought a w123 300d, non turbo. Will check your videos about w123s. Thanks for sharing your expertise
Always a pleasure to watch your videos. I own an 88 r107 560sl and love it.
I suspected you were originally Lebanese until i watched this one where you confirm it. I am originally lebanese too, i grew up in lebanon and moved to the US 26 years ago. Cheers.
I have always wanted a 81-82 107 because that was an era in time when they were highly regarded and generally reserved for the upper crust of society. Especially in south Florida..
I have a euro spec '78 280sl. It's. very hard to find info on it
My 78 450SL has the marvellous electronic climate control upgrade instead of the old servo. Works great and a win win all round.
Which one of the upgrades
I love all these R107 talk. For years it was hard to find R107 enthusiasts or any sort of info on it. I lucked out and picked up a 88’ 560SL 5-6 years ago for a great price. Super clean car I’m the second owner! I got it with 60k miles. And yes I did a euro conversion! I’m waiting for 500SL oem black rubber rear spoiler and delete the third brake light. Can you recommend a resistor for the third brake light this way I don’t get a check bulb error.
I've got both a 1986 560SL and a 1983 380SL (dual row conversion) and the driving experience to me that is is basically the same. Both I have replaced Steering Coupler and other steering components so handling is similar. I can see Pros and Cons with each - ex. I like the heavier doors and chrome door handles on my 380SL over the 560SL and that it uses regular gasoline. The lumbar support on the 560SL is more comfortable and it has more power - but lets get real here, a Toyota Camry can outrun it 0-60 😃 I think of these R107s more as cruisers and folks should go and purchase #1 the best maintained and best condition over anything else, but if you don't have bucket loads of money and not a DIYer, God help you :-)
I have 1980 280SL (107-042) with 290,000+ miles. The engine and trans were rebuilt approx 20k miles ago. When I bought the car , it could not hold its heat. We discovered that the rad was bent from a previous collision. The rad repair shop installed a 4 row core with the original tanks and never had a heat problem in any weather since. I live in the Los Angeles area. I had the heater box removed and a relay controlled AC system made with a denso type compressor. Blower fan is inadquate. Any recommendation for a better blower fan?.
big thanks from a 560-owner
This is so useful to know. I would love to hear something similar on Euro cars and W116 as I have a D-jet 280se 1973 and a 1983 K-jet 280ce and they are worlds apart on performance and build quality. The 280se is fast on a 3 speed auto box but can be temperamental, the 280ce K-jet is a bullet proof reliable daily driver.
The 280se has a four speed auto that stars in second gear
Im in the process of buy a 1980 450 SL, Mileage 164,00 Orginal engine, has had $30,000 worth of work done by 1st owner. $20,000 work of work by 2nd owner, which was replacing a lot of mechanical parts. Ball Joints etc. It been repainted, new seat beats, no cracked dash. From the photos, it looks like showroom condition. The widow is selling it as it was her husband's car. Has car cover, hard top, new convertible top. Selling for $13,000 down from $15,000. They say car runs great and has always been garaged. Sounds like a steal. I have yet to inspect or test drive. I'm having local Benz dealer look it over. If the dealer say nothing major wrong with it/my inspection & test drivve go fine I'm going to buy it. Whats your opinion on this car.
The ideal car has manual window winding fror the driver but electric for the offside door window, for the vsry slight possiblity of driving off into water and the electrics failing. I like the very early Euro cars with less rubber strips and more chrome.
I really liked listening to this genius. I would pick the 1972/1973 450 SLC model.
Dear Pierre, i have a 1984 Euro 380 sl. The car has a lot steering play. Maybe you can do a video on that some day🙂. Greetings from Belgium!
300SL 107 is the best!
Owning an '86 Euro market 300SL with a factory 5 speed I can say that´s probably the closest the R107 is to a sports car. And it can actually be quite sporty.
Oh yes, that is for sure the one to have!
Wow ....lucky man
@@thisisnightshop2037 If I lived in the states, I know who I would trust with the maintenance! But I live in Uruguay, kind of a long trip!
The car was imported from the USA though, german market originally, imported by the first owner into the states back in '88.
Of course the 76 still had the dreaded cats in the manifold design which didn’t play well with the K-Jet. I bought a 76 C107 that needs an engine and I found another 88 R107 wrecked that will supply its organs to make a nice driver. Fortunately that saved my 87 W126 from being an organ donor. I fell in love with that one and it became my daily. Great cars! I don’t even look at the new ones. They don’t interest me in the slightest.
Hi! I have a 1977 450 sl. love the shit out of it Silver out, blue in Big bumpers 105.000 miles.
I have a 1974 450SL. She runs and sounds great under the hood and the body is in pretty good condition.
What do you think of that year?
How is the 74 450sl is it a keeper?
I have it sitting and I get people putting notes on it asking if it is for sale.
Fantastic
What a fantastic video! I find the 107 without the fuel injector air logs to be way more pleasurable to work on. I don’t know driving characteristic differences yet
Oh but you will soon!
Hi Pierre, thank you for your recommendations, but you left out the Pony of the r107s, the good ol m110 280sl. What do you think about them?
I love the euro 280sl and will be doing a separate video on it
I’ll wait for that one.
It's more of a donkey!! I have them all. 280,, 300, 350 manual g box, 450 and 560SL with m117968 engine. They are fun to drive but the my special 560 can smoke most modern fast cars anytime anywhere!!!!!
It’s a real shame the US market never got the 86+ 300SL with the ‘modern’ M103 straight 6 engine. Light weight, super smooth and a DIY’ers dream!
Also, didn’t the US get the 280SL?
Great review as always. I would love to hear your thoughts on the Euro 500SL.
The euro 500sl is the king
The 350sl is like a muscle car and very different to the rest. My favourite model.
As a Californian I have to take issue with emissions testing. The LA basin of 10 million people was called " Valley Of The Smokes" as recorded in the 1500's; An inversion set in at 1500' trapping pollutants. In the mid 70's, the air in the basis was smoggy and yellow. By the 1990's emission regulations turned it blue. Florida doesn't have this problem.
Great video, would like to know if there’s anything to watch out for on the ‘79 SL specifically. Looking at either an ‘85 380 or ‘79 450, wanted to know which y’all think is better. Thank you
I have a 79 R107 that I’ve owned for 6 yrs and bought it with almost 200k miles however the motor was rebuilt and had 15 k miles on the new motor when I bought it. The original tranny leaked fluid but ran good and initially I replaced the fuel pump and air conditioning was rebuilt. Just recently After 8k miles. Since I purchased the car I repaired the tranny leak with some additional work to the transmission. Other than regular repairs & tune up’s, tires and brakes the car has been solid. I’m the 3rd owner, CA car no rust. I purchased it from the 2nd owner for $5.5k. The a/c & heater “climate control” system is quirky but if you know the system & how it works it will keep you comfortable. Ours is not an everyday driver, it’s a hobby car that we drive on MBCA rally’s & tours. Hope you have fun with yours. The Germans call them Panzervaugens. 😅
Hi from Freance! Very informative, thank you so much. I would love the same topic on the euro models. I own a R107 500 SL 1985 whith a tricky problem I hope I'm about to solve.
What is the problem? These cars are so simple if you are not scare of the germans..
The 500 and 560 SL are the Best in my Opinion 300 SL too
hey boss, I just purchased a 1979 450sl 120k miles, anything specific I should be concerned about? fyi, the car has been taken very good care of and maintained nicely.
On the 560's they had the front cross over frame beefed up, some could crack at this point.
I would love to see a true and honest video review of the 3.8 variant of the m116. I have an 85 380SL (US) and find it to be a wonderfully driving car, especially after having removed the emissions components. But I do grow quite tired of being pestered by 560 owners on forums and FB groups, most of which have never actually driven a 380, because they saw the power output chart on the R107 wiki and now assume they have the inherent right to declare that the 380 is a car not worth owning.
If you don’t have a euro car or one of the early 450’s I think the 1985 380 SL is probably the second best SL to the 560. Yeah, the 380 is not a barn burner by any means but it is an absolutely wonderful car to drive
My wife and I are restoring a 380. I love them.
Nobody drives an SL to make full throttle records... I think 380 is a very interesting option. Thanks to the 560 lovers, 380s have very reliable prices to enjoy the experience of an SL.
I disagree with Pierre. A great mechanic never trashes the cars they work on but should know or have developed an ease to be able to fix them. If the 81 380SL is such trash then may be it’s not the car but it’s the learning curve. 380’s are baby v8’s and have great mileage and they look nicer and cuter than the 560’s. I think it is completely bad taste for an expert mechanic to trash a set of Mercedes and it speaks to whether or not someone knows enough about that car or has the patience, but it’s completely wrong to trash talk cars people work on and drive. I only see a human error here; it’s not the car. What a bogus and inappropriate video. So every 380SL is supposed to get crushed now because nobody will buy them? I respectfully disagree. I’m happy people own 380SL’s and I’m glad they made them and they are great cars that a small bit of work can keep them running well or someone can learn a lot about cars in doing the repairs and maintenance. I’d be happy to buy your 380SL if now all of sudden you lost interest because of a CZcams video
Any input on the 74' 450SL? Seems like a year between the purist early model and the poopy 75'
I am sure you must love Hoovie's r107. That's one of the few non Hoopties he has.
Except he ruined the engine when he just owned the car because he didn't know that cars needed oil and the car didn't have any 😂
I do. It's a real jewel
Because he didn’t buy it. I think it was his Grans! 😆
Terrific info Pierre! I AM a resident of the SROC (Socialist Republic of CA) and am bidding on a ‘74 450SL as I type. Your preference of ‘71-‘73 is pretty clear, and you reference ‘75 as a recognized 107 low point. Would you put the ‘74 in the same category? I only heard you point out the large bumpers on ‘74 which doesn’t bother me either. On the upside now, CA no longer requires emission testing on cars ‘75 or older! Kind of ironic if you think about it.
Hello, Rob K. and thank YOU so much for your question(s), we want to answer you as quickly as possible.
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How about a similar look at the r129 through the production years. Which is best..early or late?
late
Early or late but not middle
Late 600s because early ones are snakepits. Early 500s with CIS/KE-Jetronic if you find a good one are fine.
that microfiche machine is epic! What do you view on it?
Part numbers, presumably?
You ever come across limited slip rear differentials from the early 107’s?
Rarely
Why are SLC's are generally not talked about?
Good question. I like them, but it seems most people think they are too "stodgy" or something.
I own a 1973 450 SLC, it gets a lot of attention every time I have it out but someone always tries to figure out how to get the hardtop off. The roadster were much more popular, more affordable (a 73 SLC was approx. $4k more than a roadster), and they became a symbol of wealth when they were in production. SLC owners seemed to be more conservative, the SLC was more practical with the back seat. If you had cabbage back in the day, a 107 SL was a good way to advertise it.
I have two of them
I was lucky enough to find an excellent one owner low mile 89 560. Thinking about leaving to Marxist state of western Washington for Florida's east coast.
Thanks for the video. Good insight. I own a 1986 300SL. What are your thoughts on this model?
The best
Thank you, Pierre for your videos - excellent reference info. Purchased a 1981 380SLC about 28 years ago which was glamorous & comfortable but lacked power. Three years ago, I purchased a 'restored' 1972 350SL. A fire recently broke out in the engine bay when the 350SL was stationery, with the engine idling. Luckily, a hose was close by and the fire in the engine compartment was quickly extinguished. Crisis averted, with damage to the front engine hood and burnt wiring & hoses in the engine bay. You mentioned in this video about early 107's being prone to engine fires. Could my Bosch D -Jetronic electronic be the culprit?
Not the electronics. Its the high pressure fuel hoses. And the numerous hose clamps on each injector.
@@Juancheros thank you for clarifying. Yes, you mentioned in the video to ensure the correct MBenz specification fuel hose and clamps are always used.
“Spend a bit more, get a lot more”
1978 79 80 were good cars thanks
Any manual trans that will work for a 76 450sl?
I love my 280SL 107
Can't wait to show you my SLCs
LOL about california
i live here...so true especially now with Newscum
Haha...my condolences
Super info regarding the W107. What Can You recommend when it comes to the W123? Søren from Denmark
Diesel. That's my recommendation!!!
Before the price of gas went to stupid levels, I wanted to drive my 380sl from Los Angeles to Florida and interview you to start my youtube channel.
What did they sound like when they were idling again (2:35)?
Great channel!! I love the talk about the V8's. Its a bit on the side of the tread, but I take the chance. Ever since AMG came out with the W123 500CE in 83' , I wanted one. I have a ordinary 82' coupe in witch Im planning to install a 500 M117. But what year? Or should I go for a nother engine. M116 or M117? I want a relayable, motor/ tranny combo. No racer, but a powerull cruizer. Built like the car MB never built, but shoud have!
PS: if you allready have done a video over witch M116/117 is the best buy, just give me a heads up.
Thanks
A bit late bit I'd absolutely stick a 560 engine and Transmission in there !Powerful, more modern electrics, same footprint as a 5.0 m117, transmissions are pretty darn good. And you (I'm very sure) can swap out the rear subframe for ether a Gen 1 or Gen 2 w126 version and get the beefier lsd differential and axles.
I am wondering why my name no longer appears on the patreon list at the end of the viedos. I did not remove it.
Ditto
Why are you fidgeting shaking so much? It's very distracting
What is your opinion about a 1987 European 300 SL with manual gearbox (no catalyst version)
Thank you
is 1989 the best year for the 560sl or just in general?
What about a 79 450SL?
What about the later 80s cars ? Didn't really mention much, right now later 80s cars are going pretty cheap I know they're on my radar right now
What causes the early 107 to over heat?
Fan clutch
@@thisisnightshop2037 That should be an easy solution. Thanks Pierre
Hi. Salam from Beit Mery. What about the 1974 107? I am looling at one currently and appreciate your input. Cheers
metal backed timing chain guides. Chrome shifter plate on automatics. Chrome Grill Star. Metal blower cover. Chrome door handles. Metal coolant overflow. All small bumpers regardless of market. The originals were the best. Hands down IMO. I don't buy a classic Mercedes to own plastic.
All of these little details make me love the early cars
Thinking on selling my 500 SL imported , good condition, where to go..... to many scams out there’s! we are in Raleigh NC
We were wondering why our '72 350 4.5L ran hot on the highway. We'd considered replacing/recore the radiator but if you say its a D-jet quirkiness, we'll just live with it though it does get a bit nerve wracking at times. The car also has a hesitation off the line at about 800RPM. That we'd like to get solved. The California bashing does get old... we have a lot of people, a lot of successful industries and not a lot of livable space. All that ads up to it being expensive. Plus, our two major urban centers are surrounded by mountains (see livable space above) - which traps all the car emissions. If it was table top flat like Florida... then all that smog would blow away and be someone else's problem. But it stays right here. It would be nice if there was more flexibility for older collector cars but that has not happened yet. Hopefully someday!
How about the 450SL 1979? Good car?
Is the '74 450SL just a '71-'73 with the big bumpers?
Are the SL roadsters safe in terms of getting into an accident? I love the 107’s and R129, but never had a car that short before and bumper height seems a bit low in today’s times with everyone in an ugly suv.
Called the panzer wagon ( tank)