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How to Properly Cut Lathe Soft Jaws - Part 1: Fundamentals and OD Gripping
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- čas přidán 18. 07. 2013
- In the first of a two-part installment, a Haas certified machinist explores our recommended lathe soft jaw cutting/boring techniques and the proper way to cut OD gripping jaws.
Watch Part 2 - ID Gripping, Re-cutting, and Adding a Taper - here: • How to Properly Cut La...
Don’t miss any Haas videos. Click here: ow.ly/s28l30mTiUo
These videos are exactly what I need to get new machinist up to speed and dispel bad practices. I've seen some crazy crap and it's always "that's how we did it at my last job". Thank you for these videos!
that last tip was really great. its brilliant to use the same jaws as much as you can to minimize time spending changing them back and forth!
But be careful if you intend to have both ops in the same program. For example, turn first end, program stop, turn part around and start the remainder of the program to finish the back end of the part. I've seen this done many times. I've also seen what happened if the operator is distracted and starts the program with the part the wrong way round....!!!
@@montyzumazoom1337 i mean you cant predict that someone isnt gonna make a misstake, but you can make safetyprocautions, like m0 ( are the part turned for this oeration)
M0 ( are you sure?)
then go. i too have seen parts and tools being scraped (almost machines too) from these kinds of misstakes, but it all comes down to experience in the end, like always in this field of work! there are button-pressers and there are operators!
Never able to use one, but I bought dozens of the Haas machines for AF and the Airmen customers in the field loved them. I wish I had bought the training software for myself after retiring from DOD. Then I might have been able to go back to work in the only job I ever knew in a machine shop. But, it is too late now. Boy have things improved over the years. There is allot to soft jaw turning in the CNC machines, but all the changes have improved on the accuracy in chucking needed on the CNC machines. All I ever had to do is clamp on a piece of steel with the parent jaws of the chuck and then bolt pieces of aluminum or steel to their face and turn a pocket the actual size of the parts to be chucked. It was all manual machines in my day. Boy howdy this is much better tooling than I ever used.
Boys and girls, if your going to be clamping DOWN on your work piece, you have to put your spider (or solid bar stock) inside the jaws. if you're going to be cutting on the INSIDE of tubing, or boring something, you need to use a ring on the OUTSIDE of the jaws, then go ahead and cut the OUTSIDE of the jaws to fit the inside of your part. You HAVE to support the side of the jaws that you'll be clamping against later. If you don't your part is going to wobble all over the place!
Darn Right
Dam skippy!
Mmm, yes.
Thank you very much BBMbattery Canada, we appreciate the comment and are happy you enjoyed the video.
Hello Keith. Thank you for watching the video and fore the question.
There are two hydraulic pressure gauges mounted on every Haas Lathe that uses a hydraulic chuck and tailstock. One of the gauges reads the pressure that the chuck is presently set at and the other reads the pressure the tailstock is set at. In any of the wide angle shots in the video you can see the location of the two gauges on the lower left-hand side front panel. (continued)
Haven't thought of the two step jaws for that kind of application. It's duly noted. Thanks
I'm so relieved. I thought for a second that "Andrew" was going to smile but luckily I was wrong!
Hii
His name is actually unit 552.
I knew when I came to the comments I’d find a reference to him lol
Great question JJsCustomDesigns. The approach we take here at Haas is to match surface finish requirements to the type of work being processed. Generally speaking, if we are gripping a piece of raw stock we will turn the jaws to a rough finish (such as a 500 micro-inch). This gives good bite for heavy roughing on un-machined blanks where we are not concerned with damaging the surface of the part.
(continued)
Just wanted to thank you fine Haas folks for uploading this. I've worked in a machine shop for 5 years learning on-the-job as I go. I've never had any formal training/education. So I have giant gaps in my knowledge. This subject being one of them. Now I know how to bore soft jaws! Thanks! BTW we have 2 Haas lathes in my shop and they are my favorite machines to setup/operate. You folks make a fine product!
I’m happy for you dennis
That was a very informative and well made video. I am just a factory worker working on CNC lathes and now starting to program them from self-teaching (long story). This video has helped me a lot! Thanks for taking the time to make it.
With new machines and new chucks, everything is new and tight. The possibilities are limitless
Great comment, David. Abrasive particulate inside the work envelope is definitely a concern. However, in this case the volume of grit is very low. Also, on this ST-30SSY all the linear guides are shielded by protective covers and the guide trucks have protective seals as well. Hand filing the jaws is another option if abrasive sanding becomes an issue. Thanks for the comment.
hello ，What is the brand of the electronic pressure gauge. Thanks
Excellent tutorial. If I have any feedback about what could have been added, it would be " be sure to allow for the thickness of the boring ring when you set your boring bar projection". Excellent graphics and Well done.
(Continued)
In the case of very high roundness/concentricity requirements (less than 0.0005 TIR) it may be helpful to turn the plug as well. But consider also that at this level of accuracy there are many influencing factors.
Thanks for watching and the question.
Good Question Paul. Yes, the same principles apply on the TL series lathes, or any lathe with a manual chuck for that matter:
-Match jaw and part cutting clamp forces where possible.
-Clamp the jaws in the same direction as the part.
-Use a boring ring, slug, or custom ring to clamp against during jaw cutting.
-Cut the jaws to the nominal part diameter.
(continued)
For a tight grip using soft jaws, we would often bore them with a .010" per Inch taper (bigger towards the back) to counteract the splaying at the front!!
Great video, very informative and crystal clear explanation.
You are very welcome flashmanx6, we are happy you enjoyed it. Have a great week.
Great Video. Being a Machinist/ Programmer for 40 years, only thing I would teach different is to bore the jaws .002"-.003" under part dia.. This gives you a much stronger hold on the part. You would be amazed in the difference of holding ability given the same jaw pressure. It is for sure the difference of having a part come out, and not. there's always those circumstances where this doesn't serve you well, but as a general rule I always do this.
Great idea it will also transfer the load across the whole surface by the spring in the materials.
It's a SHIT video and anyone who thinks it's a good one is a SHIT machinist!!! Congratulations!!!
Behave Rod . It all works out at the end of the day .
Do you remember how shit scarred of these machines you were first time you used them?
We all were .
Well rounded one. I say bullshit , Do you push machine to that degree where you have found the difference between a fly out and not not a fly out by a couple of thou !! Absolute crap .
Rod Builder, and your professional qualifications for judging it as such? Perhaps you'd care to enlighten us with your wisdom since I'm happy to learn where any mistakes are in this video. Guess your spreading dirt or something else with that skidsteer to a 100ths of a micron tolerance?
That was refreshing in its clarity.
Thank you very much for watching and for the great comment Dennis.
(continued)
These and the other important considerations covered in the video are the same whether the chuck is manual or hydraulic.
A few aspects of using a hydraulic chuck, such as how they are actuated, are not the same for a manual chuck. However these differences are small enough that, at this point, we have not planned on making a separate soft jaws video for the TL machines. Thanks for the question Paul.
Great to read defaultbomb12, thanks for watching and for the comment.
Hello and thank you for the question CADtekk Designs. Your comment brings up a good question: Does the roundness of the plug affect the roundness and concentricity of the finished bore?
Although the plug itself does not have very accurate roundness, the bore cut into the jaws is still as round and concentric as the accuracy of the machine itself, since the jaws are spinning about the center of rotation of the spindle.
(continued)
But u are clamping on not only a mismatched diameter but worse a non cylindrical part. Thus each jaw will not be in the same position when it clamps the machined part nor have same preload. This might seem nit picky but to not take 2 min and machine the plug seems absurd. What am I missing?
Hello and thank you for the questions ELYOR01.
1. Yes, the Haas ST-30SSY, is for sale.
2. Please visit the Haas website, HaasCNC.com, to view ST-30SSY pricing for your country.
3. Yes, the ST-30SSY can produce camshafts, with the exception of finishing.
Great video! I've made my fair share of soft jaws for manual chucks, specially for the TL-1 and boy do they help out. A lot better than cutting aluminum shims and using grease to keep them from falling out of the chuck before you even tighten it.
He may seem like it, but he's probably just nervous. If he's anything like me, he probably hates getting filmed.
You should see this dude on a motocross bike! This dude RIPS!! When I worked at Haas, we worked together quite a bit. Great video!
Braaaapp!
nice video very helpful, i was looking for a video were tool selection ,and length of tooling holding is shown to avoid chattering especially for boring operation and spindle speed,feed rate selection
I love how they didn't bring GD&T into this because i'm just looking at this process and cringing at how they just assume 3.9500" OD. Because if its even a thou or two out of round you have either of the respective 3 or 6 point grip scenarios (depending on machine wear, etc.) Otherwise however, it's likely going to work since this looks like a new machine, and its probably beside the point, however important in some more niche scenarios of machining so, I figured i'd mention.
Great video! I learned how to machine on Haas lathes and love 'em!
Very good video and there was a lot I hadn't known or considered yet. Very useful information even with my manual equipment.
Thanks for the positive comment. We're glad this video has been helpful. Our intention is to help machinists learn new things about this great profession.
Superior instruction from an excellent manufacturer. Very good. I too, did not realize the effects of RPM on clamping force. But, I shall not forget !
(Continued)
Setting these two pressure values is an important part of correctly clamping and cutting your part and they are typically adjusted before starting every new job. There is a decal on the side of the machine that we reference in the video that shows how chuck gripping force (at max chuck pressure) varies as spindle speed changes.
Hope this helps Keith. Please let us know if there is anything else we can help you with.
Good video thanks. Wow wish my living room was larger.
Very well explained, very good and informative video..thank you so much sir..
Thank you TheLeeqeend, we hope more people like you watch the video and take away useful information.
Great video. Notice that not only apply to CNC Haas machines. As i said ..... Knowledge is the most powerful tool in a machine shop!!!!. Thanks
Very good job. This CNC Lathe sure does not look like my old South Bend model 1930, serial 47,150. Way to go.
I have 8 in" chuck with 8.5" boring ring. Im Having a lot of trouble getting the ring to seat Inside counterbores. When I set the Jaws flush with top of chuck(recommended starting point in this video) the ring will seat in 2/3 holes not not the 3rd. I get ring to fully seat when I place the jaws at different height. But doesn't turn concentric
My consumer dream! I am absolutely passionate about tools, and this is definitely my dream, but very far!
thank for useful video, have you got it in collet chuck. God bless you!!
love you hass running a tool room mill now but brushing up on my lathe skills having to make my own jaws at my new job instead of just skimming them lol
Excelent video. High level quality of teaching...
I always put a small rad on the face and program the undercut in the program
Great video with good explanation
I use a 2.5 inch boring bar to cut jaws with a center plate in the middle. works good
thank u sir for giving me new knowledge
Andrew looks like an angry German 😂
Nice, my school just got a couple haas machines, and they are working great!
Hi - regarding the rule of thumb of holding 1/3 of workpiece length in jaws if tailstock is not used.
Can this grip length be safely reduced if all forces from operations are "pushing" towards the chuck?
Thinking drilling (non-peck) and boring here.
You should mention something very important for this kind: The soft jaws are used JUST FOR CERTAIN PROJECT where high concentricitate are required or when hard jaws are very worn out. By the way: force of tightening can be just with 0.315% greater than cutting force.
Any good machinist has many different size spiders for boring jaws. When boring new jaws best to rough out most of the stock on the Bridgeport or jig bore. The interrupted cut on the lathe is hard on inserts or brazed carbide cutting tools. Plus this saves a ton of time especially on a manual lathe. Most small job shops station a manual lathe next to a CNC lathe so the operator can qualify parts before running them on the CNC lathe. This is done during the CNC cycle time when the operator has free time. This is all part of lean manufacturing procedure.
why bridgeport does other milling machines do the same job
Hey so suck, no other manual milling machine will work properly for ruffing lathe soft jaws. Sorry:(
Blown460 ooh lol
This clown thinks a spider is something that bites him on a camping trip!!!
Great video. I work in the AeroSpace manufacturing as a cncn lathe op and know a ton of "machinists" that should watch this video. One thing i notice that wasnt covered was surface finish of the jaws. 250? 125?
(continued)
As the part becomes increasing delicate or if there is danger of marring an existing finish, then the jaw surfaces will need to get smoother and smoother. The average finish value that we use here is in the 125 micro-inch range.
Thanks for watching and the question. Let us know if there is anything else we can help you with.
Can you make a video how to bore jaws on sub spindle using the machine programming.
Very nice and informative.thnks for public video
interesting, informative and very clear. Now to get some soft jaws for my old manual lathe!
have a special look to the rake and clearance angle with MSAK-toGo. Easy to see all details je need.
I remember cutting jaws in school the first time. Its pretty scary the first time you do it.
Very NICE Video Lots new to Learn Thankyou Thankyou....
Very informal video.. Great job
I do exactly as it says in the video. Place the boring ring, lock it in anti-clockwise direction, then lock the jaws, it stops half way as it says in the video. however, the boring ring easily falls off. It doesn't stay in place. Please can someone explain to me what i might be doing wrong. 10inch 3bore chuck.
don't use it you don't need boring ring for hydraulic chucks
About the question of does the roundness of the plug affect the roundness and concentricity of the finished bore? It's a very nice explanation to me, thanks.
+jin-shui Chang To eliminate that possibility, you could turn the plug first, that way you have a clean outer diameter for more precise clamping.
Yamazaki Mazak, best you can get
dont forget FANUC
Mazak is the Haas of Japan
@@loukola5353 haha what is DMG of japan?
Nakamura 💪🏻
@@lazarlazar4748 i never understood why they put fanuc control on their machines
fanuc is not very intelligent control
Gracias, buenisima información bless.
Very instructive ( I've never used CNC machines ).
There is a cone component on the head turning machine which has a length of 1235 and this mold has come 30 and has been drenched 226. Vibration is coming too much on it, how to fix it
Good information Thank you
Since that plug isn’t round, how is it decided what the actual diameter of it is, or doesn’t it matter, exactly?
Thanks rtz549!
Is the pressure gauge/indicator attached to the machine itself for regular use or just added on somehow for demonstration purposes? If added on for demonstration purposes is there additional info on it in other videos or on the web site? Great info in the video!
hello sir, i have a kingston machine type CL38C. i have a problem with the alarm code "ex 1034 2nd turred not inposition" what is the solution ,, i expect your answer
You have to do an angle dive in the bottom of the jaws otherwise there will be a parallelism defect
Very good tips!!!
What a great video, very interesting, informative and well made. It is pleasing that Haas has taken the time, effort and investment to produce this instructional programme - thank you. Very compulsive viewing and I am looking forward to part two! Does the same principles apply to the chuck on a TL-1 (my machine) and would you produce such a video for the TL series lathes?
Kind regards
Paul
You mean to tell me, that I have to adjust jaws every time I make part of various diameter or this is just in case you need more precision?
Hi Saheryk - Thank you for your question. If you are re-using your soft jaws to hold the same diameter part over a number of different runs, the jaws will usually not need to be re-cut (cleaned up) until wear on the gripping surfaces of the jaws begins to affect part position. This also assumes you re-mount the jaws, every time, in the same position in which they were initially cut.
However, when you are gripping a different diameter part with this same set of jaws then it is highly recommended that you re-cut the jaws to match the diameter of your new part.
This accomplishes three things:
1. The jaw clamping surfaces are ensured of being concentric with the axis of the spindle.
2. The best clamping grip is developed on the work piece as the full surface area of the jaws is engaged.
3. Jaw force is spread evenly across the body of the part since the jaws have full engagement.
Cutting your jaws to match your part will yield the best possible accuracy and grip.
Saheryk
very good explanation
Hai sir... I have a doubt?
My mechine not available auto tool presetter.. And I mount boring bar new. How to take an x offset for jaw cutting .. You have any idiya sir...
Good video
Was that an abrasive disk being used inside the machine envelope to deburr the soft jaws? That could be potentially pretty hard on the ways.
Good video. keep 'em coming.
Спасибо Вам за урок.👍👍👍
Try doing this on SBL500 machine .....impossible it would crash like jaws shredded and tool head shredded
You may add a chamfer to the outer edje of the soft jaws bore 😉
Where does one purchase a boring ring?
Very informative well made video. Makes me wish I was young enough to change careers.
wow lathes have came a long ways! pun of the day
FYI the link at the end of the video for Part 2 is broken.
What tool did you use to deburr the jaws? Would be good to know.
The kind I'd get shot for using around a machine haha I just take them off after boring and deburr them they'll repeat just fine when you put them back on, just make sure to stamp the jaw number on them as you take them off. Boss man would roll your box out for even thinking about using a grinder inside the chamber lol
Also he was rolling the burr inwards towards the bored part of the jaw? Always go out, the edge rolled out will keep from marking fancy finishes. In my experience anyways. Also F those jaw boring rings make a steel plug that fits the master jaws of your chuck, then you don't have to stick your boring bar out an extra inch. The plug also keeps your draw tube tidy
Not to dog the video it's good info the grinder just made me squirm a little
@@chopthesheep90 Thanks for your answeres but they dont solve my question.
Great video ! Would love to see some VF2 stuff.
Ömrüm onunla geçti
Is it important to look at the parts with a serious face like andrew? How do i visualize a force?
Could someone tell me the name of the device at 7:50? Thank you so much!
pretty cool
good information, good video & great Quality...!!
To save a jaw cut and not distort the soft jaw prep the job on an manual lathe with hard jaws,eliminates mill scale,my boss would spit the dummy using that method.
Excellent Video
Why do we cut jaws ? Please tell me..
Great technical , haas the best machinery !!
Well done video. I liked it.
12:54 wow . zwei seiten mit eine Maschine, wie geil ist das denn