Smyth Busters: Are Bronze Brushes BAD for the Barrel?
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- čas přidán 17. 10. 2022
- Today's bit of Internet wisdom, what the mythical "they" are saying on the forums, social media, and even in comments to Brownells videos, is that a BRONZE bore brush will damage your gun's STEEL barrel. Sounds like a topic tailor-made for the Smyth Busters, doesn't it? Caleb thinks this idea came from somebody cleaning their barrel with a bronze brush, then inspecting it and discovering factory defects in the bore. Steve theorizes another cause of damaged rifling: shoving a bronze brush down a .22 rimfire bore using a 3-section, steel M16 cleaning rod.
There's no way a soft metal like bronze can damage a modern steel barrel. Now, the steel on old pre-1900s barrels MIGHT be soft enough that you could wear it out with excessive cleaning, especially if there's a lot of burnt powder in the bore. The powder residue could act as enough of an abrasive to attack the shallow rifling. But even then, you won't tear chunks of metal off the bore! Also be cautious of a bronze brush with a steel wire core. If that core scrapes the muzzle crown, it can cause damage. For extra safety, stick with brass-core brushes.
Uncle Steve's Advice: Don't clean your .22 rimfires any more than you absolutely have to. What would happen if you put a bronze brush on one end of a cleaning rod, chuck the other end in an electric drill, and really go at a dry bore? Cousin Caleb tells us about it.
So that myth is BUSTED. Go ahead and clean that bore with a bronze brush. When the rifling wears that brush down to a nub, get a new one. If you want to be extra careful, use a good-quality bore solvent and a NYLON bore brush. Even better, use a BORE GUIDE to protect that rifling. If you're using a steel cleaning rod, be careful to keep it from scraping the rifling. - Sport
Let's hear it, what are the barrel rumors y'all have heard in the gun shop/gun range?
You don't need to clean your ar15s barrel after shooting 22lr all you need to do is fire a round of 223.
The famous myth of the "AK never needs to be cleaned". As a matter of fact, someone even told me once that the AK barrels were "cleaning themselves automatically".
That a Mosin isn't zeroed from factory with a bayonet. When I tell them that they were zeroed like that, they usually don't believe me.
rumor actually related to this video- “never change directions with your brush inside the barrel” or its sister rumor “never pull the brush back through the crown”. Combine those two rumors and you end up with the method of pushing the brush through, unscrewing the brush / jag, then gingerly pulling the rod back. (repeat for each stroke until you die of old age)
I'm 36 now, but when I was maybe 6, my dad took his single shot 22 to the lgs down the road because it had became inaccurate. They told him to heat the barrel red hot and it'll melt the lead out....
I guess if a bronze brush wears out a barrel, then a bullet traveling down the barrel under heat and pressure should have ruined the barrel after the first shot
The issue here isn't a bullet. The issue is focusing on the bronze brush. Sure, the bullet can do damage & probably has but the possibility that a bronze brush might ADD additional issues to the already possibly damaged barrel is not helpful. Just because you can use it, doesn't mean you should.
@@wonderblast953 stop being lame. Its a fucking gun. Treat it like it
@@wonderblast953 Look up, it's a 747.
@@wonderblast953 🤣 thanks for the laugh friend ✌️
@@wonderblast953 Lol..This isn't worth responding to.
Makes perfect sense to me. Bronze is tough on fouling but totally innocuous on steel.Can't listen to all these misguided people on the internet. Rather hear it from a couple of experienced gunsmiths to be sure. Thanks for the informative video gentlemen.
Absolutely agree, one of my hobbies is clock making and clock repair; clocks for the most part have brass plates without jeweled pivots, the train of gears is steel and when wear occurs it is a wallowing out of the pivot. Bushings (bronze or brass) can be added to close up the egged out pivot holes. Occasionally, the steel pivot will need to be burnished to put a polish to the steel, but wear out the steel never. And that is in old (150 year) clocks that have been run 24/7 for a century.
True. Bronze is softer
@@Smith944 More corrosion resistant too.
Horology can provide some important clues here. Clocks and watches don't have steel "gears". Most have trains of brass wheels paired with hardened steel pinions. Wear becomes apparent on the steel pinion leaves or lantern trunnions long before it shows up on the half-hard brass teeth that mesh with them. That's a well-known fact. Same with glass-hard steel pallets. Escapement pallets show wear long before the brass scape wheel teeth that act against them. And if you haven't seen worn steel pivots, then you either haven't examined many or you don't know how to calculate what the original diameters/clearances should have been in order to measure the wear. Pivot holes "egg" for two reasons: side pressures and contamination of the liquid lubricant. It's not because of the inherent softness of brass or bronze. If you re-bushed the train using steel, the holes would wear FASTER. Jewels serve as hole bearings because they offer superior smoothness and wear resistance--and not just because of their hardness on the Mohs scale. When soft metals go head-to-head with hard metals and a RUBBING action is involved, the softer metal tends to win. That's why clock and watchmakers use copper, brass, bronze and zinc laps to polish hardened steel. Zinc plates are used to polish diamonds. Conceiving of the problem of brushes in gun bores as a simple battle of steel (hard) vs. bronze (soft) leaves out key elements. It's actually steel vs bronze in an environment filled with harsh chemicals, carbon, ash, metal oxides and common dirt. If any of the latter three components proves to be harder than relatively soft modern barrel steel (about 30C Rockwell), then that component will embed in the bronze bristles and wear away the steel. So, your clock experience should tell you that the "Smyth Busters" haven't properly conceived of the problem on this one.
@@PLdemorygray soft metals do not wear slower than steel. Why do you think engine bearings wear out faster than the crankshaft? I'd like to hear you explain the science behind that theory.
@@actionjksn The video repeated the "common sense" misconception that bronze cannot damage steel, because a soft material cannot scratch a harder one. While it's true that soft metals can't, by themselves, scratch harder metals, that's not the entirety of the barrel/brush equation. When you add dirt, carbon and solvents, the situation changes. The exact same thing takes place in crankshaft failures, even though it's a red herring comparison because crankshafts don't normally involve metals in direct working contact. Cranks are designed to work with a .0005 in film of oil between the bearings and journals. When you introduce dirt, excess pressure or excess heat, the situation changes. When an engine experiences "bearing failure" it's almost never a simple situation where the bearings have "worn out" and left the crank journals untouched. The adjustment for wear in this system is built into the bearing side of the equation, but that doesn't mean that the bearing material is what actually wears away fastest. It's often the crank journals that get measurably smaller, or go out of round, or get scored. Journal wear allows the crank to start beating the hell out of the bearing rather than wearing it away. And to be clear, the journals wear because they've been rubbing against a softer metal with dirt and grit embedded in it. The same thing applies to bronze brushes in bores. They're quite capable of damaging a steel barrel that's at 38RC. Will you wear a barrel out by passing a brush through it? No. But the idea that a bronze brush can't hurt a steel bore because bronze is softer than steel is pure hogwash.
Thank you Caleb for a good laugh at your delivery of "doo doo quality barrel". 😂
I don't know why it made me laugh as hard as it did. I guess I'm just a big kid cause I was cracking up at Caleb then again with above comment 🤣
And I thought I was the only one that belly laughed at that...
Come on people. If a bronze ANYTHING even scratches a hardened steel surface, that hard steel surface isn't a hard steel surface. You got way bigger problems than a bronze/brass bore brush. The force/friction of that bullet riding on the rifling has to be 1000x greater than the brush. Reminds me of a friend who drank 8 shots of Wild Turkey with a twist of lime, the next morning he was sick as hell and said "man...I think I got a hold of a bad lime..." lol Oh no, it wasn't the 8 shots of 100 proof whiskey. It was that damn lime...
Such a great series. Thank you gentlemen. Quick, to the point, no fluff.👍🇺🇲
Here you fellas are...always spreading that wisdom! Hope y'all are having a great week!
I was just wondering about this the other day, because Ive heard this rumor too! However...It didnt make sense. How does a brush ruin a barrel meant to withstand pressure and bullets?! Thanks for answering all these age old questions!
I actually took a brass brush, and a power drill, and brass coated the inside of my barrel. I actually did it long enough to coat the inside of the barrel with brass. It's actually a common technique to get brass colored metal, without it being brass. I've done work as a medieval armor and weapons smith, and so I know for a fact. That a properly tempered steel piece will never degrade, and the brass would rather give off it's material and Add it to the barrel rather than take away material.
I don’t use bronze brushes, I use steel ones, then I coat them with 80 grit grinding compound and impregnate that with industrial diamonds. Finally I Chuck the steel multi section rod in a drill and run it full blast for at least 20 minutes. After that, you should see the shine that bore has. My .22s now chamber .50 caliber bullets as well…win, win. 😂😂😂
A video on bore guides would be great !
Agreed. I prefer ProShot products myself.
Possum Hollow makes great ones specific for different rifle receiver dimensions.
We hired a guide in Louisiana and he was very boring. A video on him would also be boring.
I've used Otis type Ripcord Nomex rods in my handguns for 4+ years, no issues, no flaws. Simple CLPs like Slip 2000 EWL or Clenzoil work fine. ✅️
You two gentleman set the standard for honest reviews!!!!
As a cheat I’ve stuck the cleaning rod in the chuck of a drill. I run a slow speed & have found this reduces the cleaning times. I’ve always felt dumb about this but appreciate you guys touching this topic. I don’t see any negative results on the ER Shaw 10/22 barrel I got from you guys either. Thanks again!
Another excellent segment! Thank you!
When I was much younger, I once got my 22 so fouled up with lead that it sounded like I was shooting through a suppressor. There was so much lead built up, it was impossible to get a cleaning brush pushed through by hand. So, we stuck the rifle in a gun vice, chucked up a bronze brush in an electric drill, and bored it out. Worked like a charm!
People would take a standard cleaning brush and wrap some pieces of 100% copper Chore Boy scrubber to help remove the lead.
You can destroy the rifling in a modern barrel, though not necessarily with a bronze bore brush. I posted a comment last year on another popular channel about a customer I once had who managed to eliminate the rifling in his brand new stainless steel heavy match AR barrel by means of vigorous and frequent scrubbing with a special solvent he acquired in Canada. The rifle manufacturer ended up replacing the barrel for free on the condition he stop using the solvent and stop cleaning the bore after every single shot. Lord, did I get a lot of comments on that post.
Think i remember this.. On MAC?
@@michaelcabada2933 You have a good memory.
What? No way. I even clean my barrels after dry-fire practice, or if I open my safe. Also before and after Thanksgiving dinner.
@@Paladin1873 I watched that episode on MAC too. That guy must have OCD to wear out a barrel 🤣
@@mikewithers299 He was an interesting chap.
Bronze brushes have been used for quite sometime. If there was an issue, manufacturer's wouldn't sell them.
Not that I can think of right now in terms of smithing, but there are plenty of products on the markets that aren't helpful to our everyday health yet they still profit. So you could make the same argument, "if there was an issue, manufacturers wouldn't sell them" yet they do & they still play havoc on our health. Apply that logic to smithing & perhaps you can find maybe 1 or 2 products that isn't/aren't very helpful yet is still available for sale? Just a thought
@@wonderblast953 Guns and ammo, are not good for my....................wallet.
@@wonderblast953 I can think of 1 for smithing. The upper receiver clam shell vice block. It is used to hold your upper in place inside a vice so you can install a barrel nut or muzzle device. It's terrible for the receiver because it only holds the receiver, thus putting all the torque on to the indexing pin and the thin aluminum where the pin sits. Which ends in breaking either the upper receiver or the indexing pin on the barrel.
What you're supposed to use is a reaction rod. It's a long rod that is squared off on one end so it can be clamped into a vice. The other end locks into the barrel's star chamber. It also has a "sail" that locks into the channel the charging handle rides in. This locks both the receiver and barrel together and transfers all torque into the vice.
@@wonderblast953 Big pharma........
Manufacturers will sell anything that people will buy
It would seem the reasoning for nylon brushes is for use with de coppering agents so it's not dissolving the bronze brush.
I've seen & heard a few, video content creators going on rants regarding this topic. Glad for Brownell's crew to create the proper response 👍 My response was mostly 🙄 🤭 🥴 😴
My dream team combo: cleaning rod with felt plugs and brunox CLP. They come out black in the beginning, conform to the rifling and are quite cheap. And you can go back and forth inside the barrel without worrying about damage in the barrel. I check my barrels with a barrel scope and they always get cleaned down to bare steel
Hi there, since the early 70's it was my job to clean my dad's FN FAL/R1 rifle when he was permanent force in the South African D F. As a kid i did this very often and he had stressed to be careful of the flexing of the steel cleaning rod. At no point, after many years, was there damage to the bore, brass brushes with a brass core, brass jags with cloth patches, zero. To this day i use both a plastic covered cable pull through and the original military issue steel rods that screw together. I have recently bought a bore snake for the first time, just for the sake of something new, happy with all and all my Milsurp rifles are 30 cal. so they work well for all. Thanks once again.
Steve, if you need to remove lead from a barrel, just use Hornady One Shot on a patch. No brushing or scrubbing needed. It reduces the leading to a powder and pushes/pulls it right out. Place a paper towel on your bench first, to catch the lead dust.
You're welcome!
That’s what I Use One Shot 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻
Lithgow's manual on the LA101 states to use an oiled nylon brush. I think I remember reading that Lithgow says not to use a bronze brush but could not find it. As bronze is considerably softer than steel, I cannot understand how a bronze brush could damage a steel barrel. If the barrel is chrome lined, that it even tougher than steel and definitely would not be harmed by a bronze brush.
“We’ll sell you more.” 😂😂😂 love your videos guys! Keep ‘em coming! 👍
Top notch video guys as usual ! Thanks
That technical term "doodoo quality" !!! 🤣
I think one good idea for a video which isn't necessarily a myth, but a comparison or different types of brushes, patches, felt pellets which I recently started using and so far I'm impressed, but any of these would be a good cover topic.
Thank you for listening to viewers
Excellent side burns, Caleb!
Great video, thanks for sharing.
I've always used the OTIS cleaning kit with plastic coated steel cables with brass or bronze fittings with a bronze brush dry always running it breech to muzzle and the barrels and rifling is always super clean and shiny with zero damage that I have ever seen....
You bet! 👍 Otis is what I use for my lever actions and my .22 rifles.
Otis Ripcords are ✅️. I use them often; Glock gen 4, gen 5. Walther PDP Compact 9mm. I avoid reloaded or lead style bullets. Newer non lead training loads.
I noticed they mentioned something my grandfather told me. "You rarely need to clean a 22lr ". I didn't listen to him on my own and I still haven't seen any degree of accuracy change but I inherited his Savage model 29. I thoroughly cleaned it as soon as I got it. I knew how accurate that rifle was, as I had seen him hit chipmunks at about 40 yards but after I cleaned it I couldn't make it group until I had shot about 40 rounds through it. I initially thought "he messed it up by not cleaning it " but the barrel and chamber looked great. Out of curiosity I didn't clean my old marlin after several outings and I couldn't believe how it seemed to be more accurate. My marlin always, well almost always, hit what I was aiming for but it does appear my grandfather's advice is something to listen to.
I'd love to see some out-takes from Smyth Busters
I'll just keep on doing like I did in the Army, cleaning rod with a patch tip, the kind with a slot in the tip, CLP or BreakFree depending on how it's marked. I have never seen a need to run a brush down a barrel, it's never been that dirty. Now a chamber brush in an M16, I would use a chamber brush there when needed and you didn't have to look too hard to tell if the chamber needed a brush.
Caleb IS the special he brings.
I've been waiting for this one !
I use JB bore bright on a bronze brush, but carefully. Bi-metalic jacketed bullets (copper washed steel) through chrome plated barrels seem to develop no fouling.
The only problem I’ve ever noticed was from the base of the bore brush. Most people don’t realize after the entire brush exits the barrel the rod sags just enough so that the base or core of the brush gets caught on the very bottom of the crown. With years of cleaning the crown will show signs of uneven wear at that point which can affect accuracy. That brush should be guided back in or removed after exiting the barrel then put back on to the cleaning rod for the next pass.
Put some heat shrink tubing around the base of the brush so it won't scrape on the way out and into the bore
Don't push the brush all the way out of the muzzle, reverse it before it exits or remove it before you pull the rod back then start over.
I follow the same procedure when using cleaning jags. When going back though the bore I guide the jag back in to avoid hitting the muzzle crowm.
Slow and easy and I use a carbon rod so it will wear that carbon rod out before anything
Anything soft on a cleaning rod can have embedded dirt, abrasives abound in the left over primer and powder residues in a barrel. I much prefer a burnished single peice bore rod with a swivel handle, bronze brush wetted with cleaner of choice and a properly fitted bore guide.
Great job guys.
There are brushless solvents available. Of course someone will say they damage the bore. It gets tiring sometimes.
When I was in basic, my drill sergeant told us how when he was in the infantry they would clean the crap out of their weapons every day, but they had to stop cleaning them so hard because it turns out they were damaging the barrels, so I was under the impression that it was true.
Granted, this is the army. Of there's anyone that's really good at breaking things that shouldn't be broken, it's definitely us LMAO
Most likely from the steel cleaning rods.
Only bad thing about the bronze/brass brush is if you are cleaning with a copper solvent you will NEVER get a clean patch! 😅 It will keep showing off as blue not from the barrel but from the brush and jag! Use nylon/aluminum jags and brushes and WOW suddenly the patches won't stay coming out blue as a "dirty bore". 😉
I like listening to you guys. You guys cut out the bull crap and lay it straight.
Like they said, if it’s well made you’ll be alright.
When I was in the Marine Corps 35 years ago our M-16’s were old, rattled, and worn the hell down and we were still able to put rounds on target at 500 yards.
I learned this from another older Guntuber.
If you shoot lead rounds, shoot a jacketed round or two to clear the lead.
Another great video guys!
Thanks Steve and Caleb, for smyth busting this non issue about rifle barrel wear. I would add, for maybe new rifle enthusiasts, that one piece rifle cleaning rods, nylon coated and stainless steel, are available, strong ,stiff and smooth sided. You can buy caliber specific, .177, .22, .30 or just one(.22) that will fit all of your center fire caliber bores. Suggest you buy at least two, so one can be set up with the patch jag or loop. The other with the needed bore brush. Makes the cleaning chore proceed smoother, faster, easier. I was advised by older, experienced competitors to rag wipe the rod after every pass thru the bore. Stick a clean rod into that hole every time.
That is a good idea...just wondering how well the nylon coating holds up over time and heavy usage (we are past kinda anal about cleaning firearms)...
That’s what SHE said! 😂
Yes, Mr. Bycroft, I recognized the double entendre as soon as I posted it. Petunia, I used a couple of nylon coated cleaning rods for around twenty years, with no noticable wear of the coating. Fourteen of those years participating in monthly NRA Highpower Rifle matches, (80 rounds fired for score per match, and about 100 round practice shoot between matches. Cleaning after every trip to the range.)
ALSO, clean from the chamber end whenever possible.
TRUE STORY: In 1975, at Marine Corps OCS, on the night prior to the battalion CO's inspection, my platoon's sergeant instructor came into the squad bay with an electric drill. He proceeded to chuck up a cleaning rod with bore brush then punch the barrel of each of our M14s.
I agree. Bronze is softer than steel so a bronze bore brush will not damage a bore. Just be careful inserting a steel core bronze brush at the muzzle or better yet use a bore guide if possible but most bore guides are inserted at the chamber and won't work for closed receivers if there is no access for a guide at the chamber. Brush from the breech or chamber end if possible, otherwise be careful at the muzzle.
Thanks classy cool duo. I like to blast my bronze brushes and swabs with Brakleen when they need it. Works for me.
Some 50 yrs ago our top firearms laboratory told us not to use bronze brushes but to simply use patches to clean our rifles, these where custom sniper model Parker Hales as issued to our unit. Very accurate and still shooting very accurately after 15 years I was in the unit when I handed my personal issued rifle in. Always put a couple of rounds down after cleaning ready for any urgent use.
I always use a brush on a pull-through, that's what we did in the army; you can keep it and an oiled patch in the trigger handle.
I’ve used bronze brushed all my life no damage to any barrel !
15 years ago I went to a carbon fiber rod and like it well , Tipton makes good quality tools !!
In BCT I had a DS show us a trick....if you don't have a bore brush, Tie off 2 meters of 550 cord to a tree above your head. Thread it though your barrel from muzzle to star chamber (opposite to the bullet travel). Tie an overhand knot in the 550 cord below the star chamber and using the tree as an anchor point, pull the knot back through the barrel. It takes some muscle, but the knot will "pop" through and works decently enough to clean large deposits.
I was pleased when I realized my 60 y-o .22 cleaning kit was usable on .223 and 5.7 barrels.
And right now 99.99% of the bench rest shooters just felt a cold chill in their bones. The School of the black rifle guy just fell to his knees and screamed no as tears fell from his eyes . Lol. Never ever believed a bronze brush could harm a modern barrel steel. Even hard chrome bores. And if flakes of hard chrome do come out it's because the plating was flawed, mainly due to cleaning process before plating or a flaw in the barrel material.. If a screaming projectile with massive pressure and cut your flesh heat don't hurt the chrome or bare barrel steel then a bronze brush ain't going to either.
Coffee is the biggest detriment to accuracy. Bigger effect than bronze, brass, plastic or stainless brushes. On my bolt gun off the bench or prone, the difference in group size between 1 cuppa and 5 cups is dramatic. I might have to include coffee loading in my DOPE cards.
Actually, I pay more attention when cleaning my bolt gun and DO use boreguide and only push the brush or patch one way out the muzzle then unscrew before pulling back toward the breech. I have too much time invested in target loads to worry about taking too much time bore cleaning but my AR-type not so much, just wet patch, a few brush strokes then dry patch until comes out clean.
I enjoy your series. Good common sense.
My cleaning rods are brass, so even if I fail to be careful, odds are decent that things will be fine. Brass rods, and my bronze brushes have brass cores. Also, I always clean my AR from the receiver end, just as my Drill Instructors taught me in boot camp. I also clean my GSG Spitfire barrel from the chamber end and never have I encountered any problems.
If you have an over the counter factory rifle use a bronze, if it's an expensive quality barrel just use a nylon brush. NOT because the bronze brush can hurt the barrel or anything like that, it's because the finish is so much better in a high quality that a bronze brush isn't needed to clean it. Most factory barrels the bore is rougher than Alligator skin. I'm surprised there is any copper left on the bullet when it leaves a factory barrel.
my Henery .22 owners manual specifically says do not take a bore brush and run it back and forth in the barrel. The idea i guess is if you don't know what you are doing you could cause some damage. But the do say a bore snake with the brush on it is ok because you are not running it back and forth.
I've been Prepping for many many years and I believe you can never have too many gun cleaning kits and supplies. I pick up extra bore cleaner, gun lube, brushes and kits every once in a while. When SHTF, I will have plenty of gun cleaning stuff for members of my group and extra to Barter with. Be safe my friends.
Run your cleaning rod from the rear of the barrel if you can to avoid doing any possible damage to the crown.
He paused before he said," maybe i drink too much...... uh coffee," we'll say. Straight from the mountains of Columbia!
I swear ,for every pound of useful facts out there you will find a dump truck full of garbage. I'm 55 and still consider myself a student acquiring firearm knowledge . Thank you for helping me unload decades of junk knowledge.
I personally use a bore snake to clean my barrels. Keeps things quick and simple. Sure, I have to do it more often but I don't mind. Unless the barrel needs some serious TLC I don't really pull out the metal brush.
The real issue here is ignorance. 😂
I have a Wichester 1892 44 WCF rifle (circa 1917) that has the rifling near the crown ruined probably by the use of a steel cleaning rod. Shoots 6" - 8" patterns at 50 meters. But has harvested a couple of deer at close range, those old irons just keep going!
Gunsmith may be able to recrown the barrel
Midway is a good source for recrowning a barrel
Anytime a brush or a patch loop and a steel rod has to enter the barrel from the muzzle a soft brass / bronze or plastic muzzle guard should be in place to protect the rifling and the muzzle crown.
I truly find it hard to believe that a good steel barrel will be damaged by a bronze brush. A carbon fiber cleaning rod will help prevent barrel damage also. For myself, I use Ram Rodz (over sized Q Tips) for cleaning my barrel, them coupled with a good solvent. Bore brush very limited use even if it will not damage the bore.
The best way I have found to clean a barrel, is to get someone else to clean it! (I was the one that had to clean all the weapons we took to the range, because I was the youngest in our family. 4 boys, 1 girl. On average, we took around 20 to 25 guns to the range every weekend!)
Ceramic stones attached to my cordless power drill, pesky groves, nice and smooth now 😳 😎 ( “we’ll sell you more”, perfect ! )
Do it to a .22lr, load up some ratshot, and shoot Mo-Skeet!
grooves
For cleaning a center fire rifle from the rear, I always use a bore guide. It just makes life easier... provided that your cleaning rod can accommodate the extra length.
Keeps the solvent out of the action and trigger too.
The video of a bronze brush in a drill was primal rights!
The use of carbon scrapers has been known to wear the bolt material enough to create gas leaks around the bolt tail that are significant enough to cause malfunctions. I have seen examples of this happening. This is one of the reasons I approach the use of abrasives, even on hard metals with caution. I would like to see some tests of an individual performing the electric drill test but then using erosion gauges to quantify a before and after measurement, not just look at it.
In all my rifles, 22LR, 223, 357M etc. I have always used a good, not caustic, ammonia free cleaner / copper remover, like the BoreTech Eliminator, and nylon brush + patches and the barrels are squeaky clean 😀.
For me the bronze / copper brushes are a thing of the past.
I just recently tried the Bore Tech C4 carbon remover and man it was amazing. The amount of stuff it removed from my lever action was amazing, and my pistol barrel was squeaky clean after just a couple minutes of cleaning. Best bore cleaner I have tried so far, too bad it's horribly expensive in Germany (it's 20 Euros for the smallest bottle)
The first law of machining is the cutting tool must be harder than the material being machined!!
Stop making sense...!
You should not use a bronze brush when you're using a copper solvent and brush to remove copper deposits. The bronze brush will give a false positive on the patch. Plus, the copper solvent eats the bronze brush.
Some of the top benchrest shooters have moved away from the bronze brushes, some claim that it can etch a barrel, other than a few top shooters,no one else ever see any difference
A bronse soft brush hurting a barrel but not a HOT LEAD BULLET AT 2K FT per second ....
Over cleaning too is a problem in my opinion! If I can’t trust my gun to run well while somewhat dirty then it’s not for me. For example my CZ P01 (which I sold regrettably) ran for +500 rounds of the junkiest dirty ammo. It never jammed or had a stoppage. That gun is one I would trust with my life.
Most firearms can go that far before cleaning, or even more...the worst, and the one we shoot most, is .22...doesn't matter the firearm or the ammo, the gun is going to get dirty...we have a couple of lever actions that become noticeably rougher after 100+ rounds fired, come 200+ and the guns groaning 'clean me'...we do belong to the over clean crowd, if even 1 round fired the gun gets cleaned...just wired that way, we think easier to trust a weapon knowing it is clean...
You can't over-clean a gun. You can only do damage by using the wrong tools (steel brushes) or the wrong solvents or abrasives.
If your gun runs fine for 1000 rounds without cleaning, great. But then you might get a problem at 1010 rounds. Now if you had cleaned it well, you'd be 1010 rounds away from a problem. If you didn't clean it, you're only 10 rounds away from a problem.
Would love a video on the ol’ “.357 magnum will crack the forcing cone of a K frame” myth/ legend. I’ve asked around and it’s seems like a 50/50 consensus. If there’s already a video I’d love to be directed to it 😁
Bronze will not cut steel too soft, but they may have picked up a hard piece of dirt that scratched the barrel. I have had to use extremes when cleaning out badly corroded sewer pipe barrels. I wrapped stainless steel wool around a bronze brush and was able to resurrect old rifling in, I thought, completely destroyed barrels. They don't look perfect, but at least I can now see rifling in these hundred-year-old barrels, which probably saw black powder or old corrosive primers without cleaning. It is amazing how fast corrosive primers damage barrels; they must be cleaned immediately. The first AR I built was a heavy carbine-length barrel that was shooting 3/4 inch groups at 100 yards with a 2x cheap scope. I was shooting Russian supposedly non-corrosive ammo. The next day, my brother checked this wonderfully accurate barrel, and it was already corroded. It was heartbreaking. Don't believe the box when Russian or Chinese ammo claims to be non-corrosive!
I found that any brush on a coated Dewey cleaning rod passing thru a bore guide with #9 solvent works well. Never saw any damage in nearly 40 years.
One note. Coated rods need to be wiped EVERY time they come out of the barrel. If they embed with crap, your barrel wont perform nearly as long.
While that may be true guys, I find that my diamond-impregnated end mill set from Harbor Freight is even quicker than the stiffest of bronze brushes at removing the lead, carbon, and even copper fouling from the bores on ALL of my guns. Thanks for the clarification though.
Just understanding the hardness scale makes be believe it's all a myth.
I have a few things that just shipped out of your place yesterday. I didn't order a bronze brush though. I have many of those already.
My barrel is a 4150V QPQ cold hammer forged one. I would hope it is not "doo doo quality." LOL
brass or bronze brushes just fine. failing to clean your weapon can do more damage than not cleaning it. USMC platoon armor Vietnam
I still can't get my father in-law to ever clean his firearms. He claims even a nylon brush will damage the barrel.
Well, you showed a picture of it so I was hoping you’d discuss, but I’ve heard the stainless steel “turbo” brushes aren’t good, so have avoided those. Never had a problem with brass or bronze brushes of any kind.
The tornado brushes work best in shotguns to remove plastic wadding residues. About 10 passes on my Saiga 12 barrels and they're good for final patches. A bronze brush would take all day to get the plastic out.
Some barrel makers say do not use abrasives with a bronze brush so I don’t do that. Otherwise a bronze brush won’t hurt it. You also have to remove all of the abrasive.
All I do is keep my cleaning rods clean and my cleaning attachments clean with a little moonshine.
After years of cleaning rifles, I’ve settled on 1. Possum Hollow bore guides. 2. One piece carbon fiber Tipton rods. 3. Nylon brushes to eliminate false positives for copper. As for solvents, I have tried most all of them and they all work. Some better than others. These days I mainly use Shooters Choice solvent, KG products, and Sharp Shoot R Wipe Out and Solvent Accelerator.
And Allen cotton patches : )
+1 for the carbon fiber rods. They're not cheap, but they work great and seem to withstand all types of solvents (you'd think that carbon fibre and carbon solvents don't mix well, but so far I've never had a problem)
I just throw them in the dishwasher. On POT SCRUBBING. I'm pretty sure that's what the setting is for...
I'v used bronze bore brushes since 1986 with no issues according to my smith. 22 cf , 6 ppc , 6br , 308 .......... so on. Bore guids are a must
Steve and Caleb, I saw a stainless steel brush next to the bronze. I was at one time a certified armored from Smith and Wesson. With a stainless steel gun it is perfectly OK to use that in the bore of your pistol or revolver. It will not hurt it. It will really help with the use of lead ammo removal; but ONLY on a stainless steel weapon.
I use the bore-snake cleaners. No worries about damaging the barrel with the hard rod.
I prefer Otis Ripcords. They are Nomex coated. Easy to use, compact. I own a few M&Ps & Glocks. Gen 4, Gen 5. Solvents like Hoppe 9 & CLP: Slip 2000 EWL are +.
During WW1, the Russian soldiers were used to scrubbing their barrels clean because of black powder. When Issued the Mosins with Smokeless powder, they continued their scrubbing rituals and damaged the barrels. Of course, the steel cleaning rods may have had something to do with it.
Actually, the barrels were damaged from the corrosive nature of the primer compound they used in the cartridges. In fact, part of the cleaning kit that came with the rifles was a metal bottle of alkali salts to neutralize the acidity.
@@6Sally5 Good information ! Thank you
There are things that make sense and then there are technical experts. Chad of SOTAR recommends using nylon brushes through the bore, so I switched to nylon brushes. My barrels are cleaned at the same rate. I believe Chad states premature wear…if a copper jacketed bullet will wear a barrel down in 30,000 rounds and you are using a scratchy brush that does down the channel 20-30 times after a shooting it makes sense that you could be wearing down the barrel prematurely…
Same.
Brass & copper brushes can be abrasive.
They also can make it hard to use copper solvent.
I only use nylon brushes myself.
Good Video/Info.