How I got hard carbon out of my bore.
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- čas přidán 11. 03. 2023
- I've been exploring various ways of cleaning a bore, and I think I struck gold. Hard, stubborn carbon is a chore to remove, but it can affect accuracy when it forms a ring near the land.
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Thanks for the video. I would say that yes, get a borescope but do it with the idea of putting whatever one sees in proper perspective. Many will see manufacturing flaws and want a new barrel, but it may very well shoot just fine. Another area of concern is that many will want to clean their guns down to bare steel every time and this is also unnecessary. Each barrel will foul differently and accuracy will degrade differently with each barrel. Take a look through the bore with the scope at that point and make a note of how many rounds of ammo was fired. You will get to where you don't use the scope but a few times a year on any given barrel. The nice thing about scoping the bore is that you know what state it is in despite it looking all bright and shiny by just looking down it with a light. Your video is the first I have seen that brings up the subject of the negative consequences of borescopes. Thanks again for the video.
A borescope is not good for OCDs😂 But jokes aside, I learned a lot looking at my rifles, various brand, various makes, Old Mauser, tikka, brand new barrels and old pitted barrels that if I didn't know the rifle, I would have qualified as good for scrapyard. The borescope is a great way to learn a lot about barrels in general, for this I do recommend it, and I agree 100% with you about having proper perspective. Thank you for the comment! Cheers!
I agree 100%. I looked down the barrel and saw small manufacturing flaws, small pitting, and grime, which I thought was a clean barrel. It is breaking my head.
Im a machinist/gunsmith and 1000yd benchrest competitor. You must keep your barrels clean and clean them as best as you possibly can. Accuracy degrades over time and hard carbon has to come out. You can think differently but when you are competing at 1000yds shooting 10 shot groups measuring 4" then you will see differences if you slack on your cleaning. You may not see a difference shooting 100 or 200yds but your also not shooting very far either.
Well I had fun reading through most of the comments made over these last months. A lot of concern over shortening barrel life by "over cleaning" or whatever via using Kroil and JB. There also seems to be disagreement about removing carbon, fouling, copper down to bare metal or not.
My father always said to keep your cars and guns clean - a simple truth from a self made man who was USMC through the worst two years of Korea and an incredible hunter and marksman. I have always followed that advice. I clean my firearms after every range session and my cars always look showroom new. I am now 70 years old and have used JB and Kroil on all of my firearms including expensive cut and hand lapped barrels, and some irreplaceable legacy rifles. Not every time.
Have you ever used compound on a car's finish? Most of us have. What does it do? It removes the environmental contaminants, dirt, and even microscopic scratches in the clear coat paint. JB has a finer grit than most automotive compounds. Secondly, it is applied with Kroil which is a penetrating oil that allows the paste to slide more smoothly. Thirdly, Brownell's recommends using the wool felt polishing pads on a jag. These are no different than the polishing pads used with the DA random orbit polisher on your car.
I use a lot of different products - Wipe Out, the Bore Tech carbon and copper removers, M- Pro 7, and on and on. My standard practice is to run a few patches wrapped on a nylon brush of carbon cleaner through the bore than copper cleaner, then alcohol, then a light coat of oil, then a dry patch. JB and Kroil hands down works the best - after every hundred rounds or so. I don't shoot competitively, but if my rifle is not accurate I don't want it. If I am going to put money into a rifle and ammo (which BTW is getting more expensive and harder to find) then I want the best accuracy I can get out of it. If it is not accurate then it sure as hell is not because it is "too clean."
I guess bottom line some folks are okay with driving around in a car or truck or shooting rifles that never get cleaned. Not the image I want others to see. Sure, different strokes for different folks.
Haha, thank you for that! Very well put, Sir! Your father's generation knew something young'un today will never know. JB and Kroil are not for every cleaning. You do it once in a while when you start to get build-up. Also, I'll do it when I buy a used rifle. I'll strip it to bare steel and see what this barrel can do. I'm about to make that follow-up video with my 6.5 Creedmoor. That rifle shoots better than ever. I even brought it to my first F-class open match. Thank you so much for your comment, it has been a pleasure reading you Sir!
To start, I am a metallurgical engineer, very familiar with looking at metals through a microscope. When I look at the bore scope images of your "squeaky" clean barrels after Kroil and JB, I see lots of small pits, microscopic tears, and scratches from the barrel machining. Every machined barrel will have those. So your bore may look clean, but it is not smooth. That layer of carbon or copper is needed to make the barrel smooth. It fills the pits and tears and scratches, and that is why it is so difficult to remove without using abrasives. Precision rifle shooters shoot "fouling" shots to fill these surface defects in the bore and make the barrel smooth before the important shots. Your Kroil and JB are cleaning away what needs to be there. The JB works because it is an abrasive. You are actually making you bore slightly larger every time you use it. The Kroil is just a lubricant for the abrasive. There is no gun cleaning magic in the Kroil. Go back to your Hoppes 9. That is all you need. As CZcamsr GunBlue490 says: Forget that you are cleaning a gun. You are just removing excess carbon from a piece of steel and you want to leave a smooth surface. If the micropits and scratches in the surface are full of carbon, so be it, The surface is microscopically smooth. That is what you want.
Excellent response. I was tempted to use a bore scope until I saw the intel that Gunblue490 provided to his viewers. I will add that I use a bronze brush and make 10 passes which equates to 20 when you move the rod forward and backwards. I also purchased a set of bronze brushes in the same caliber from J. Dewey as they are meant to be replaced after some use. The brush is meant to be a disposable item after it begins to wear. Using a bore scope will make you Fixate on hyper cleaning your barrel and thus Reduce its life cycle. If you are a bench rest shooter then that might be a different story.
I agree with you, a bit of fouling is necessary, for best performances. But regardless of the motivation of why someone would want a squeaky clean barrel, I do know that none of the 'commercial method' would help remove a carbon ring on a 22lr rifle for example. I tested a lot, and none of them encourage a bronze brush. But only a bronze brush with some lubricant did the trick. In the absolute, do people need squeaky clean barrels, I don't think so. But if benchrest shooters aims for it, there's gotta be a reason. And for what I can gather, in a good quality barrel, you don't need much fouling to reach peak performance. Cheers mate! I appreciate the comment and conversation!
if I recall correctly, Erik Cortina posed a good argument for bare metal cleaning and that, in a nutshell, eliminates or nearly eliminates the bore variability you get with maintaining a fouled barrel which is constantly changing shot to shot. I've been shooting and loading for over 30 years and have rifles that shoot best when they look like copper pipes in the bore where others lose their accuracy inside of 25 rounds until back to bare metal. For me it boils down to how the barrel performed when new. If I'm getting excellent accuracy, for me, which is 1/4 to 1/2 MOA three shot groups, then I keep that rifle clean like new. In contrast, when I take a new rifle/barrel out and I'm getting 2 inch groups or so at 100 yards from the start, I go the other direction and get more fouling to see if that helps and in many cases it did. I'm referring to my cut and button rifled lapped barrels, not production rifles.
@@WildBushGrit another point to have a clean bore is to have consistent shots. You can't consistently maintain a level of dirty, but you can consistently maintain a level of clean.
@@derekmcmurry It all depends on what you are looking for your barrel to perform. If you are talking about bench rest or long Precision shooting then going to a known staring point makes sense. On the other hand if you are looking to extend the life of your barrel then the repeated continued cleaning to bare metal, will not extend the life of a barrel.
I use a bronze brush every time I clean. I've never noticed any negative effects from it. I did briefly try without it but pretty quickly went back to the bronze brushes. I've also used jb with good results. I rarely try to get a barrel spotless though. Just don't let it build up and don't let anything rust.
People crack me up, we go out and use and explosive charge to swage chunk of copper and lead through the bore at hi speed, then argue if a bronz brush is going to harm that bore.
😂 I know right!
I don't know if it is "harming" the bore or not but I watched a video where a guy used a drill and bronze brush in his Benchmark barrel and apparently it "polished" it but didn't harm it. I decided to do the same thing to an older rifle of mine. Pre and post borescope observation were noticeable. The brush scratched the hell out of the bore. You could easily see the cross marks perpendicular to the bullet path. Most would opine that a bronze brush won't harm the bore but that's with typical use pushing them through with a rod in the direction of bullet travel and reverse. Take a rod, couple it with a drill and give it a go. You'll definitely see cross marks. As such, bronze brushes can and do cause etching in steel. I've seen it. Have yet to see if it affects accuracy though.
@Derek McMurry I guess there is always going to be extreme examples, but if your using one as intended, and I personally don't even use one every time I clean maybe after 500 or so rounds, (I'm way too lazy) I don't see it causing enough damage in the grand scheme of things to warrant me worrying about. But that's my opinion.
@@tlinrin887 I don't think so either. Long ago I used a ammonia based bore cleaner, Warthog 1134 or something like that. Left it too long in a Broughton barrel and it pitted it throughout the bore. Hasn't caused any change in accuracy though
@@derekmcmurryI think you will find that those marks your referring to are machining marks made during manufacture. How can a material softer than steel (bronze) scratch it?. The video you watched with your own eyes has proved it does no harm and still you don't believe it lol.
This is the best video I watched on what actually happens to your barrel when cleaning with Hoppes. I also bought a bore scope and unfortunately my life changed forever. Great video however most shooters will never believe you. I watched a video on Gun cleaning from Brownells of all places, these are two gunsmiths, and they are laughing and chuckling about how they never clean their guns. Their gun cabinets are full of dirty guns and this is completely acceptable. I could not believe what I was watching. The average shooter believes the dirty gun shoots better. Now you know how the government gets over with their disinformation, people believe them.
Thanks, it is something I would like to test on a vintage barrel and see the difference - the regular cleaning vs the kroil cleaning. Cheers, and thanks again .
Thanks for the quick chat.
Take care! = )
3:38 This is the best part that makes me comfortable! Thanks man
Once again man, the production quality is top notch. You’ll be at a million subscribers in no time.
Thank you Jeff! Much appreciated! Don't hesitate if there is a topic you believe I should cover :)
Amazing - I use these same products. I use the Bore Tech product after every shoot, then frequently use the Wipe Out and Accelerator. But nothing works like the oil and JB paste. I need to get a scope though. Excellent video. Thanks.
Very informative and time saving video thank you for sharing 👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼👍🏼
The JB products cleaner compound & polish brought my 40yo 30-06 barrel back to bright & clean
I absolutely believe in Kroil. We use it at the oil refinery on some of the most rotten bolts possible. It chews that corrosion up, those flange studs would not come out without it. I mix it with Shooters Choice on a patch. I believe it is safer than that 7.62 copper remover, that heavy ammonia solvent. I was stoked to see this video I shared it on my Facebook news feed, I have been singing its praises for years. Now I have your video proof.
Good point about the ammonia solvent, all the product I used are non-embedding and ammonia free. Thank you for sharing it! Cheers!
My favorites are Patch out with accelerator then iosso on a nylon brush, now I am trying the Thorro Clean Bore Cleaning System from iosso and a partner company. Seems to work really well but always the star of the show is the iosso paste on a nylon brush. I have never tried the JB bore paste, I do not use a bronze brush to often now, almost never.
Thanks for the review. I’ve used J&B compound with great success but pairing it with the Kroil really helped…plus the bronze brush helped too.
Yes, I think the Kroil act as a lubricant and a medium, making the bronze brush glide with ease and distribute the grit of the JB evenly. I am amazed how people are still dubious about Bronze brushes... but anyway, to each their own I guess :) thanks for the comment!
Thank you for this video. Good bless
With abrasives like JB or Iosso pastes, you can also use a hard nylon brush like Iosso's blue ones. Since abrasives will wear the steel a bit, we remove the hard carbon with a bronze brush+solvent and copper every 10 rounds, and to remove the hard carbon layer left we prefer wait more shots (50 to 100). These hard carbon deposits on the 8 first inches are bad for accuracy but let your rifle tell you when complete cleaning is needed instead of your borescope. Beware of the first bullet after such cleaning, often a flyer😉
Kroil is a gunsmiths good friend. Good stuff.👍 It helps with tough carbon deposits, & can be used for a ton of other stuff, as well.
I use it on my trucks all the time... whenever I have some repairs, the evening before, I'll put a drop on all bolts/nuts, and the next morning, everything comes off real easy.
I have held for a long time that cleaning is over done. The barrel is dirtied up with the first few "fouling shots" so what we really have in a firearm barrel is a certain state of equilibrium...it won't be a clean barrel but a barrel with some degree of deposits. I really do not believe that a layer of copper and carbon is a detriment as each successive shot pushes out some of the last deposit so you will reach an equilibrium. That layer is beneficial, as others have commented in protecting the very rough and porous bare steel of the bore. There are so many variables that affect accuracy and accurate shooting I submit that obsessing on clean barrels is a mistake and a waste of time. The benchrest shooters can and do go down that rabbit hole and perhaps with good results. But for the average shooter it is a mistake to chase things like squeaky clean barrels in the name of improved accuracy. There are soooo many shortcomings in off the rack guns and shooter capability that ought to be worked in instead of worrying about an ultra clean barrel. In short most shooters cannot achieve meaningful accuracy improvement through focus on barrel cleaning. I have bolt actions that have had hundreds of rounds down the pipe with zero cleaning....ZERO...and they shoot very, very well.
Awesome review. Subscribed!
My biggest concern is the carbon ring building up in the throat. This seems like a good method to bust those out. Thanks
Ok. I bought a borescope 😭😭😭
Then I bought some Kroil and JB Bore Cleaner.
Been RE-CLEANING all my pew pews for 5 days straight.
KROIL & JB BORE CLEANER WORKS!!!!!
You bet it works! and it make subsequent cleaning much faster too. Welcome to the club!
Thanks!
Glad to have stumbled on to your channel and will be back. I'd be interested in before and after deep cleaning grouping tests as I'm not convinced a rifle needs a shiny bare steel bore to drive tacks.
Best thing I ever bought was a bore scope, it's impossible to truly clean a barrel without one. I thought most of my rifles were clean, they are now. I only use nylon brushes especially with copper cleaning agents. I want my barrels spot less, I don't believe that carbon and copper fouling fill in the imperfections to make better accuracy. If you clean down to steel you are starting from a predictable point of accuracy. Everyone has their own beliefs and habits but get yourself a bore scope, you'll be amazed. As a side note, just bought a Browning X bolt in .270win guess what a new barrel looks like? It's filthy and has a little copper fouling from test firing in the factory and it took a while to get it clean. Take care and keep em clean.
110% I couldn't agree more. And without a proper cleaning procedure you can't properly break-in a barrel. Because that carbon or copper fouling will prevent the smoothing of the bore. If you have proper break-in the cleaning is sooo much easier too. You won't need a bronze brush.
I agree. A borescope is a must for anyone who is serious about firearms.
Been there. Tried Bore Tech Eliminator in the 6.5CM LRI barrel of my RPR at the range right after a session, barrel was still hot/warm. Had minimal effect. Free All and JB works well. Iosso is great too. Best combo I have seen so far is ThoroClean (Clean and Flush) using a brass brush. Try it, you will thank me.
Sure! i'll add this to my list of thing to try! Thanks for tips!
Be careful with ThoroClean. I have heard that is a liquid version of Iosso.
Fascinating stuff! I've always been interested in the million and one details people have discovered about gun cleaning over the ages. Thanks to bore-scopes more info on what actually works, is available like never before. People have written entire books just on the effects of corrosive ammo, which no doubt has destroyed more guns than every bullet ever manufactured... can you do a video about this OP?
That's an excellent idea 💡! Shooting corrosives ammo and monitoring degradation over time. I just need a new barrel I won't care much 😅. Lemme see what I can do. Thanks 🙏 for the idea!
I never use any solvent with ammonia in it. It will etch the bore.
For a heavy carbon fouling chambering such as my wildcat 22-240Wby with an 8 twist, I use brake cleaner on a mop and a bronze brush, followed by Bore Shine.
Then oil the chamber and barrel well and patch out prior to shooting.
"solvent with ammonia in it. It will etch the bore." impossible, your talking about a steel barrel, unless yours are made from cheese?
Thanks for the video... I just got a bore scope and like you thought it was squeaky clean... There was hard carbon... I use Hoppies and carbon cleaner. Got more out but I am still seeing carbon streaks.... I will try the Kroil next time.
you can start with Kroil or Free-All. Wet the bore first, then go to your abrasive
My only complaint the smell of Kroil I love the smell of hoppies #9
Too bad perfume for women is not made in Hoppies 9 smell@@JohnDoe-pf5ys
Kroil and JB bore cleaners what is what I used for years it was recommended to me by a champion benchrest shooter.
Thank you sir
I just got a bore scope, so yep here i am looking for ways to get better cleaning results.
Welcome to the rabbit hole :)
Great job. As you saw with your bore scope, factory barrels are pretty rough. They foul quickly. If you want to reduce how often you need to use JB, consider using David Tubb’s Final Finish bullet kit. It will lap many of those tooling marks out of your barrel. BUT, I would go shoot your rifle with that squeaky clean barrel and see if it improved your precision. If not, no need to clean that much. Nice content.
Yes! I was so surprised with all the markings! I will look into your suggestion thx! It was just a personal satisfaction milestone, seeing the fouled carbon in there made me OCD :) Accuracy was fine, I'm sure it will be fine again after a couple of shots. :) Thanks a lot for suggestion, I will look into that! Cheers!
Thanks
Thanks for trying. Bore cleaning: the last frontier. It drives us all crazy.
Tell me about it :)
The million dollar question is this: Have you recorded a measurable change in accuracy since you have adopted the methods you describe? I learned some years ago that my OCD with cleaning had no impact on my accuracy, but I grant that every barrel is different.
Not yet, I'm pretty it wont change much, I might have impact shift with the first 4-5 rounds, but I will report back when I bring that 6.5 out to the range again. Cheers!
I second not buying a borescope. It has ruimed my life. Ignorance is bliss.
😂 worst 40$ spent, it made me spend 4 times more! 😂
@@WildBushGrit And additional time cleaning a barrel.
There is an easy free method to do this! Was shown it by an ex nz army armorer using boiling water. Works incredibly well to remove carbon. Takes a lot of patches though because they come out black for a long time!! I do a normal solvent clean then, using a funnel in the chamber with the rifle standing muzzle down in a coffee mug out of the stock, just slowly pour in a couple of jugs of boiling water. The cup you stand the rifle in ensures the barrel is full of boiling, not just trickling through. It works very well, does no damage and converts any light rust that may be in the barrel. I use this method only if I see rust forming in the bore wich is bad if you leave it there. Not for typical cleaning after a trip to the range. I live in high-ish humidity area so keeping rust out of the bore is needed
Wow, first time I'm hearing about this!
Thanks! I have to try it now! :)
Cheers!
I don't own a borescope but I found so much carbon fouling even with a slick barrel cleaning regime !!! Using a lead removal cloth , cut to size, and alternating with an ammonia based bore solvent.
My only hesitation with ammonia, is you need a bomb proof way of taking it out of the barrel or action, it will damage steel if left in too long.
@@WildBushGrit I follow it with a medium oil that has a copper trace in it , and I'll leave it in until I use the rifles again. Solvent based ammonia products are less of an issue than water-based products. Giving the barrel a flush with WD-40 and patching will remove the ammonia- based solvent residue too.
@@WildBushGrit I'll swab the inside of the internal barrel/action union (knoxform ?) with homemade q-tips if there's a build-up of solvent.
thanks for the tip/info I am all up for learning new things! Thank you! :)
@@WildBushGrit Using the lead/carbon removal cloth (Birchwood Casey is my preferred one) was a real eye-opener for me - I'd never known that level of carbon fouling existed !!!
The video is excellent and your channel is going to big. I’d be interested in how well the rifle grouped after that deep cleaning. Even after a fouling shot or two.
Thanks mate! :) Yes this summer going with that 6.5 for a 1000 yards session, I will report back :) thanks again, much appreciated!
I agree with you regarding bore scopes. Since I got mine I've been much more obsessed with cleaning. I just recently tried Kroil and JB for the first time on my Bergara .22lr. I had tried Bore Tech C4 and Eliminator and neither did much but remove the loose stuff using a nylon brush. Like you the patches were coming out spotless. I used Tipton felt cleaning pellets with the JB, not a brush. The pellets are too short and don't hold much JB. Not sure if I should use even use a nylon brush with the JB. Did you use a bronze brush with the JB or just the Kroil?
Hey There! I wrapped a cotton patch around a bronze brush with JB and Kroil. Thanks!
A barrel on one of my rifles looks like it has a lot of rust and has eroded. Will these 2 help? I cant even tell there was in there! 😄
Thank you very much its one week i try to remove hard carbon with sharp shoot r product and didn't work.
Ill try this., i live on south shore of montreal too if you want a spotter for long range shooting
Hey Yannick! Thank you! Let me know if you have question, I made a follow up video on the actual process, czcams.com/video/gTKKM3j9nBI/video.html Yes it's always a challenge going the distance when you are shooting alone :) Thanks for offering help, if you know a place not too far I'm also all ears. Cheers!
MOST shooters (term used loosely) are hunters. Thousands of rounds fired annually from one specific firearm are not obtained and the ranges that game is taken are below 250 yards. That being established, a gun that provides at 1.25" moa is totally acceptable for "standard" hunting scenarios.
Copper fouling actually smooths a bore by filling the imperfections within the bore's surface. Once void filling and surface burnishing occurs frictional equilibrium is achieved between the bullet/bore and copper deposition ceases building (e.g. copper on copper). Carbon build-up prevention is far more critical to accuracy longevity than copper "fouling" and EASY OFF oven cleaner takes care of it faster/better than any commercial firearm product I've dumped money into. I mean it's MADE to remove baked on carbon.
In a nutshell (for the obsessed)...., new unfired barrel - hand/fire lap, otherwise shoot it (avoid above warm heating barrel), prevent carbon build-up (throat carbon ring included) and have fun.
Hi Audran love your topic does kroil contain ammonia and is JB to abrasive for the barrel thanks in advance
Hey Vince! No ammonia, both non-embedding, super safe on any type of surface, actually. The JB is made for cleaning barrels, it's really soft and gives a nice polish that will help prevent build-up later on. I will probably show my process with Kroil & JB, but I want to see how it cleans a freshly fired gun. This video was really about getting hard carbon out. I'm also doing some experiments with something called Ed's Red. Essentially a DIY CPL you can make at home from a few basic chemicals. Kerosene, ATF, Acetone and Mineral Spirits. I will compare my result and discuss it then :) Cheers man!
I have recently tried Thurro Clean, it is a very good product for removing hard carbon. Most do not realize that that carbon will get so hard you will not get it out. Many barrels are thought to be shot out when they are just fouled BADLY! Gunsmiths may have to spend many, many hours cleaning, and they just do not have the time for this.
Many bore cleaning products are out there that make the cleaning job sound easy, and this appeals to the guys that are into the "Good Enough" category. Many products are nothing more than snake oil, especially if they appeal to the no-stinking bore cleaner crowd.
120%! I love this comment so much! I'll try to find the Thurro and give it a try. At the moment my go-to is Patch-Out.
I have everything that that company makes, on hard carbon, it is worthless! This is not an understatement!
Thurro clean works, JB Bore Bright(RED) is also a wonderful product. I hope you try Free All penetrating oil, it is simply fantastic! You can get it shipped from from the parent company. It comes in an aerosol can and a spray can with a trigger, which I prefer.@@WildBushGrit
Wow! I bet there's a lot of us in the same boat with you thinking our barrels are clean. Which borescope is that? Thanks for sharing!
If you are happy with your accuracy, don't go too hard in there, I'm a special case I often look for trouble :) . I got the borescope on amazon, its from DEPSTECH, the one I bought is no longer available, there are others but I can't find any mention of a 45deg mirror. www.amazon.ca/dp/B08DF7FCL6?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details
@@WildBushGrit I am also that kind of guy. I am getting better as experience builds, but I still complicate an otherwise functional situation into a learning opportunity unnecessarily. Thank you for answering my question.
Use the bronze brush without the 4x2. Lot better results. Put 10,000 rds through my L85A1 and never had any problems with carbon build up.
Hey! sorry, what do you mean by the 4x2? Cheers!
Probably because you don't have a bore scope so you can't see it.
Bronze brushes, purchase by the dozen, Pro Shot, Dewey. Plastic brushes use Iosso and montana Extreme. Lots of Snake Oil out there as this video demonstrates. The very best bronze brushes are worn out at 100 strokes(a pass each way). Save the worn Bronze bristle brushes to wrap patches around and use the JB. JB Bore bright(Red) is more agressive than the standard JB.
Wild Bush and Grit, great video!
Thank you Sylvia! thanks a lot! :)
Have you tried/tested KG-12 Copper remover and their Carbon remover?? There are videos on youtube where you can watch copper melt from a barrel with KG-12.
No I don't think I tried that, I'll look it up! thanks for the info. Cheers!
What procedure did you use with Kroll and JB?
TY
Yes pretty soon! I'm working on a follow-up video, also including my groups and a full report on my 1000 yards session :)
You should try diesel injector cleaner and nylon brush.
uh! that's interesting, I will look into that. thx!
I tried it after hearing that when my mate was serving in Iraq would strip their rifles and bath them in diesel that were on base. He served for Australia looking after US assets and stated that it worked best for cleaning.The diesel injector cleaner has diesel in it plus other detergents which I believe helps with the removal of carbon and seems to works well with a brass brush. I now use it to as my first step for a deep clean and any cheap off the shelf diesel injector cleaner works fine. I also clean and store all my rifle bolts with WD40 which seems to be best. I use no bolt lubes and find I get the smoothest action. I believe WD40 has Kerosene as its base, as I use it as a lubricant for trimming my cases and when I anneal my brass with a hot flame I can smell kerosene fumes from the WD40. Conclusion treat your rifle or hand gun like your trucks motor.
I heard of people using ATF and Ed's Red I made some Ed red myself, it works, but nothing spectacular IMO. I will definitely try it.
Wait, do you apply the Kroil to the brush with the JB paste at the same time?
it's a 2 steps, I soak the brush with kroil, until all hard carbon is out. Then I use a mop, soaked with Kroil and JB to finish the cleaning.
@@WildBushGrit Dang! I just did your method and it worked great! Not exactly the same components, but I used what I had. I used an Iosso brush dipped in Hoppe's 9. After scrubbing a few times, I put a patch over a mop and applied Iosso paste. I looked in the bore scope and with that 5 minutes of cleaning, most of the carbon eliminated!
Ive been trying to get the hard carbon out of my Tikka Tac A1 aswell and have tried most products except kroil and Jb paste .
Is there ever a chance you ll make a video showing your method of cleaning ? Thanks for the advice either way , the bore scope changed my life , i have depression and anxiety now haha jks jks
Ahahaha, yeah man, that bore scope ruined my life! I guess I'm ought to make a follow up video on that. I will!
I've used Iosso's triple action oil and bore paste combo (their version of Kroil and JB) to remove hard carbon in my TAC-A1 with factory barrel. I've yet to use it in my match grade stainless barrels but I've got a rifle with enough hard carbon now I might have to give it a go. When I use the Iosso I run a patch through with the triple action oil and let it set for a while, then use a Parker Hale style jag with a patch wrapped around it with a VERY small amount of bore paste smeared onto it and run it up and down the barrel a few times. I'll usually do 3 or 4 back and forths at the breech end then maybe two full passes before cleaning it out and checking it again with a bore scope. Iosso recommends using their brushes with the bore paste but I've heard too many times from too many people that doing so isn't good, so I've stuck with the paste on a patch method
The real question is how much it matters over say shooting a 100 round match. First off, it takes "several" rounds of fouling the barrel for the zero to come back. Second, how much carbon does it take to get the bore back to shooting the best at distance. It's a diminishing return after say the 10th or 12th round where it evens it out on a clean bore, all the way to "so dirty it doesn't group any longer". The better the barrel, the lesser those problems are obviously. I have only used JB and Kroil for 30 years now but that's just the OCD kicking in. Getting the barrel fouled again in a match is the goal.
oh absolutely, i'm not even competing, i'm just hunting under 100 yards most of the time. But I fully embrace my OCD personality 😂, and yes low quality barrel fouls a lot, with lots of machining marks.
It does not take several shots for a high quality barrel to come back to zero after being cleaned to bare metal. Every single one of my many benchrest barrels(Nothing special about the barrel just what I use them for) takes one or two shots to re-zero after cleaning and oiling. Generally only one. You can typically see this on a chronograph as well. You can only be consistently clean you can't be consistently dirty. It is also at peak accuracy without additional "fouling" shots. At benchrest matches(no one shoots smaller groups at any distance at 1000 yards or under) most competitors clean after every single target which can be every ten rounds.
Hi Audran its a topic that i can't wrap my head around i guess we should both do are own testing if you want to see his video GunBlue490 uploaded 20 march
The one on copper fouling? I saw it this morning. I'm not hell bent on copper fouling personally, (my beef in this video was with the carbon) I do agree with him to some extent...but... but... :) in my barrel I can see the copper turning green, meaning it is oxidizing. What does it mean to the steel underneath, does moisture penetrate the oxidized copper and start attacking the steel, idk to be honest. But here's my thinking. If a brand new clean barrel is shooting fantastic. Keeping it clean will only make it predictable. I never saw a barrel getting more accurate over time, to be honest, maybe I'm not a great shot to begin with :) Or I need to shoot 1000 yards shots to see the difference. Also, I saw a theory that says, cheaper barrels need a level of polish inside for the machining marks to be smooth out. So it would make sense for some to actually see the difference between a cheap clean barrel vs a old seasoned barrel. But for a Tikka which comes with a sub-moa accuracy out of the factory. Maybe its not as black & white. What are your observations?
@@WildBushGrit Hi Audran i like your insight of the condition of your barrel with your bore scope what it was ,and the steps you took to get it copper free ,next step would be to record after any 25 or 50 shots and see which solvent would work well.Since solvants are becoming more advanced we don't know what works best . I do think a brand new barrel should remain clean has you mentioned. All the the best ( SUB)
@@vincebelmonte7710 Thanks Vince!
I would never ever use red label JB. You can ruin a barrel if you use it with a brush. Bartlien and a few other barrel makers have seen this happened. Believe the target podcast has talked about it.
Red has a smaller grit than blue. If you find the link I'd be interested. My rifle shoots better today than ever. I'm currently working on part 2 and I'll be showing some groups.
@@WildBushGrit it was a bartlien interview on believe the target
hello brother i have a question... after cleaning what you experience is about accuracy is that more accurate or are groups spread out?
Hey, I felt more consistency, that rifle was super accurate to begin with. And I also got better at reloading too. But if you want to see groups check my newer video on this topic.
czcams.com/video/gTKKM3j9nBI/video.html
Do not run a bronze brush with JB at all. I don’t know if you shoot PRS or what but you’re actually polishing out the rifling. A lot of guys are going to CLR, 10 minute soak, flush out with 99% alcohol and go to town with a nylon brush.
Bronze brush and turtle wax chrome polish.
I'm hoping you consider testing just JD paste without the Kroil to see whether Kroil actually adds anything to your cleaning. I'm doubtful that it does, and that JB paste is doing 100% of the cleaning. I'm basing this belief on the fact no other liquid "solvent" seems to make a dent in carbon. I could be wrong, though.
The Kroil is used to facilitate the function of the abrasive. Kroil itself MAY only soften the surface of hard carbon only. But it aides the paste with getting improved spread throughout the bore.
@@derekmcmurry Ah, thanks for the explanation! Sounds like you could then use any liquid to serve this purpose (i.e. Hoppes, Ballistol, any off the shelf oils, etc)?
Yes, the trick was really not being afraid of using the bronze brush. The kroil is lubricating the brush most, oil will work, BUT! :) The kroil is one the best penetrative oil on the market, it will get into all the tiny cracks, under the carbon, inside microscopic gap to loosen up things, and makes it easier with the brush to flake them out.
@@toddprickett6376 Possibly, but Kroil and Free-all have been shown to be best over and over
You used hoppes black mineral oil to clean out fouling? Did you think to use a solvent? And you buy from a guy that keeps his Kroll supply on a snap-on tool box... lol
The Hoppes 3 bottles kit I had was 1 High Performance gun cleaner, 2 high Performance Copper cleaner, 3 High Performance Gun Precision Oil. Whatever that means it didn't work. I don't know what you are referring to as black mineral oil.
All barrels are not created equal. There is a huge difference between a "stock" barrel and one that has been precision lapped., and cleaning,or lack thereof should be performed accordingly as per specific requirements. But I'm just an old man so what do I know?
Baked on carbon effects the best made match barrels.
Lol, just got a bore scope, I know exactly what you mean.
ahahaha, good luck!
Kroil is a penetrating oil, so my guess is that Ballistol will work just as good….
The big question is, Does all penetrating oils created equal? :) Kroil is primarily used by the aeronautic industry, there could be a good reason. But you may be right, Ballistol could be working just as well... but tbh :) I prefer the smell of Kroil :)
I would choose Kroil every time, since Ballistol smells like dirty feet.
KROIL oils the best fir guns especially
It penitrates the metal preventing corrosion and fills the pores to protect fromthe elements. It works great to loosen (especially on gun) bolts and screws. Second best is blaster that comes in a can. These oils are not TOXIC . Using HOPPES,and BARISTOL are TOXIC
Kroil is just crazy, you have to use it to fully understand. I know nothing about their toxicity, but I try to avoid drinking any of them :)
They say bronze brushes are good as long as you don't use
abrasives. If you use abrasives nylon brush.
I would love to get your source, if you don't mind.
Dont always think carbon in a barrel is bad, let you groups decide. I shoot consistant 1/4 moa rifles with left over carbon in the barrels. Trust me or trust your groups. I strvive like everyone else to get carbon completely out, but more and more Im thinking nobody else can outshoot my groups so why scramble my brain trying to figure out how to get that last little bit of carbon out of the barrel. Getting to think its a waste of energy and time. And yes, I do cleam my rifles for 3-4 days after work. Mostly with wipe out products and bore tech eliminator
Excellent video sir! I`ve used Kroil and paste for decades. And i`ve tried ALL the snake cleaners that claim to do it better than the next brand, but every one has failed, except KROIL!
Your gonna "clean" your rifling away before you know it your gona have a smooth bore
With a bronze brush, its mechanically impossible.
Hoppe’s is about the worst product overall, I use sweets, and g96 a little carbon isn’t bad so long as it’s not a ring in your throat causing pressure
Absolutely a bronze brush will harm your barrel. Take the bronze brush and rub it on the outside of your stainless barrel. What happens? It turns dull because you put micro scratches in it that only polish out with an abrasive compound. They also will gouge your throat. Only iosso or bore tech synthetic brushes plus they last months unlike bronze
Hey there! It's going to take a lot more than a lubricated bronze brush to throw off a barrel. Lets do a test... take a bronze brush, no oil, and try rubbing off the bluing on a rifle... the first thing you'll notice is your barrel is getting a bronze color while the bluing is not coming off. Why is that? Now let say you have a 'Super Bronze Brush' you were able to remove that bluing... that thickness is not even enough to affect any accuracy. A commercial barrel has a tolerance of + 0.001 to 0.0015, bluing is about 0.0001. But to each their own. if you are happy with your results, don't change anything. Cheers mate! Have a good one!
Hoppe not the greatest, love kroil, jb and boretech
And how does it shoot now compared to before? I'll wager it's worse. You only need to remove the chunky carbon. Being an army guy we're trained to clean our guns to within an inch of their life (clr is NOT a good cleaner), I am convinced that overcleaning is worse for your rifle than undercleaning. Take that as you may.
I'm developing a load for my 1k yards series. As of today, shooting seated, I'm half moa at 100yards. (Average) I just lighten my trigger and will start shooting prone, hopefully to get smaller groups. But getting smaller than half in a lite barrel is going to be challenging. I'll keep y'all updated.
Try Free All vs Kriol.
Try Thurro Clean
Next, try wrapping Fine bronze wool in a bronze bristle or plastic brush to scrub with JB, etc
You are actually polishing away your barrel doing this. Safe to say a vast majority of gun/barrel makers, reloaders and competition shooters would say the methods you are using are extremely detrimental to barrel life and accuracy
That rifle still shoots extremely well, as I will demonstrate in my 1k yards series. To remove hard carbon once that way will not harm the barrel more than shooting 1 round. Think about the heat and the pressure cracking the throat, your land is actually moving as your barrel age. Think about how much polishing you'll need to actually move your land. Btw this is not how I clean my rifle every time, that was specifically for the hard carbon.
Dont over think or over clean your guns.
I agree, but it still fun 😊
Now let’s discuss barrel tuners 🤦🏼♂️
How to clean tuners? Or just a deep dive on tuners?I don't have much XP with tuner, only on my 22lr.
Kroil is the best shit you can get, but not many know about it, it seems. You’ll throw away all your other penetrating oil wannabes once you try it.
OBVIOUSLY YOU DIDN'T CLEAN YOUR WEAPON REGULARLY. USMC RETIRED
After every use, till the patches were white.
SO HOW DID YOU GET THE HEAVY CARBON? I'VE BEEN HUNTING FOR 65 YEARS NO CARBON BARRELS NOT ONE!@@WildBushGrit
Why do you need to do that? Trying to sell a used rifle as new? Probably.
This is not required when you clean a bore. It's just not. Show me a benefit. Show me that rifle shoots better with no fouling to slick it up.
Bet you can't. Bet you actually degraded your expected accuracy as well, and it took you maybe a dozen shots to get it back.
Hey, KingTroll, I certainly can, and I'm working on a follow-up video. The point of this video is to show what happens when you blindly follow what is written on the labels of subpar products. It could lead to heavy fouling and a carbon crown. Everyone knows you need a few shots to get to your peak accuracy. How much depends on the quality of your barrel. The other benefit is long-term storage. Carbon can capture moisture, or worst leave corrosive residue, which will pit your bore. So many surplus rifles would be much better if they were stripped of carbon and oiled up. But hey, if you like it dirty... you do you bruv. Peace!
@@WildBushGrit sure, it'll be fine after some fouling shots. No biggie.
Cut copper when it becomes an issue, same with lead if you shoot naked bullets. No need to strip your bore to bare metal every time you run patches thru it. Erosion is a bigger issue sooner with long range magnum setups than having a little black stain in the barrel.
Btw, windex will cut that shit right out of there if you don't varnish it in with floor polish like hoppes for years first.
I agree, and I don't clean my rifle like this every time I go out. Which is the topic of my next video, now that the old caked carbon is out, how do I keep it under control. Windex has ammonia in it, that make sense. Ammonia residue could etch your barrel if not neutralized properly. This is another interesting topic to explore, how destructive is ammonia. But all in all, its all relative to your sport, hunting, prs or f-class and its true that we usually overthink a lot of things. Cheers!