DME Arcs - Instrument Flying
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- čas přidán 26. 07. 2024
- They are getting rare, but they still do exist - DME arcs on instrument approaches. Join me as I fly one in the Bonanza, in real instrument weather, on the VOR approach to runway 36 at Washington, Iowa. As always with captions for the ATC radio calls and an in-depth look at charts and my instrument so you can follow along easily as we fly.
#flying #airplanes #instrumentflying #avidyne #iflyavidyne
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flightaware.com/live/flight/N...
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While JS always says that a good pilot is always learning, which may be true, I have always said that a "safe pilot is always training". Nice video. Maybe one of your best.
I agree 100%. The moment we think we don't need to train anymore, our skills will decline and the probability of running into a situation we are not prepared to handle will creep up.
All the best for 2020!
- Martin
Great vid. Your flyings come a long way.
What a tremendous video. So talented. The no procedure question on RNAV 31 CID always comes up because we operate mainly in a radar environment routinely. When in doubt , as the following FAA guidance recommends , ask like you did. For reference FAA 8083 -15 page 8-20 The procedure turn is not required when the symbol “NoPT” appears, when radar vectoring to the final approach is provided, when conducting a timed approach, or when the procedure turn is not authorized. Pilots should contact the appropriate ATC facility when in doubt if a procedure turn is required.
I had to read again, but it is clear. I think when the controller says “these will be radar vectors” it defines the transition (ie he provides the course reversal in essence). In other words he assumes responsibility to get you on course. They have defined degrees etc for intercept. Now if he said cleared direct to MORSE, and does not say vectors , then I believe the PT, or Hold is required. Even when I’m sure I sometimes ask. It’s good reinforcement. Never leave doubt.
MP these flights you do are so informative I always am learning. Your recording really captures the IFR elements. Keep em coming. I shared with my son who is learning IFR. Thank you.
Thanks for the feedback, Padslider. I think you and I come to the same conclusion, in that the procedure turn WAS NOT REQUIRED because the controller said to expect vectors, but WAS REQUIRED because he sent me to MORSE on my own, without vectors. I have seen that frequently and always ask for clarification, to make sure ATC and I are on the same page.
All the best for 2020!
- Martin
32:00 Martin now using ForeFlight - welcome to the 21st century! 😉
That's what it feels like, yes!
- Martin
Another excellent video, Martin. Always informative and entertaining.
Thank you, Jeff. Happy to hear you enjoyed it.
- Martin
Keep up the great videos. An absolute joy to watch.
Thank you Andrew.
All the best for 2020!
- Martin
Great video, Martin. I like the way you show the charts as you are flying and highlight what you are talking about.
Nice flying and great refresher. Thanks for your time and take care.
Thanks, John.
Happy New Year!
- Martin
Well done. Enjoyed the refresher course. Thanks Martin.
Thanks for the note, Preston.
- Martin
You are the best Martin!
Thank you - glad you enjoyed it!
- Martin
Thank You Martin for taking us to that DME Arc Approach, it was very informative and fun. Like always I like the way you explain it with your calm voice. Thank You and Feliz Año Nuevo.
Thanks for the kind words, and all the best for 2020, El Comandante!
- Martin
Very well done, video. Thank you.
Thanks 😁
- Martin
One more excellent video and a nice way to commence 2020 !
Happy New Year Martin
Thanks for share
You are welcome, Saul.
Happy New Year!
- Martin
Martin, another good video. I just finished IFR requirements and getting ready to meet w DPE soon, your IFR steps were understandable and easy to follow
Thanks, Willis. Good luck for your instrument checkride; remember if you have to do a DME arc during the checkride, it'll probably be without the moving map and just the "raw" distance readout - so be sure to have the mental picture of where you are in relation to the arc from that readout. It's not hard, jus a little different from how I showed it in this video.
All the best for 2020!
- Martin
I do so enjoy your videos. Your professionalism is admirable and should be emulated by all GA pilots.
Thanks for the kind words, and Happy New Year!
- Martin
Nice and informative video! Happy Holidays!
Thanks, Chris - Happy New Year!
- Martin
Cedar Rapids is ideal for real instrument practice. Low ceilings, but not too low. Tops not too high. Believe it or not, there is an NDB approach with a DME arc near Tucson, KRYN. Now, that's a fun approach!
Beautiful images! Your self briefings are something to strive for. If all goes well, I should be in Cedar Rapids this summer prior to and after Oshkosh. But with diesel and 100LL prices, I might have to stay home.... Flying in or pulling my camper. Either will be expensive.
I agree, we have it good here in Cedar Rapids for flight training, including instrument training. One other factor is that the airspace rarely gets busy, so we can typically fly any approach we want for training.
Fingers crossed for reasonable gas prices!
- Martin
another great video, happy new year Martin.
Thank you, Wael. All the best for 2020!
- Martin
Great video, thanks for the step by step, I like the yellow high lights twas able to see where you were at , all new to me I am soon starting IFR training in my Deb.
Thanks, Stephen, and good luck for your instrument training!
- Martin
Nice demonstration of competence in navigation and flying.
Thank you, Christopher.
- Martin
"Waiting for the bonanza" 😂
What a beautiful day to fly. Very informative flight sir. Lots of stuff going on with your digital panel. Gives you great real time awareness. Thank for the great video work.
Thanks - yes, this was a great flight to take advantage of the weather and traffic information on the Avidyne IFD and the iPad!
- Martin
Hello from Belgium! Very interesting video I like your calmness and clear explanations!
Thank you, Arno - and Happy New Year!
- Martin
You do a great job explaining, I am in the middle of IFR training, and this helps :)
Glad I could help, Mark. All the best for finishing your IFR training and for your checkride!
- Martin
Great video Martin! Now go back and fly the approach without the auto pilot. :-) Reminded me of my F-4 days in Germany. Depart home field in IFR conditions to a southern German base. Fly the Hi-TACAN to VFR conditions. Low level to another northern base. Fly that IFR departure back to home field to fly yet another Hi-TACAN approach, radial-arc-radial, to a GCA final. All in approx 2 hrs with no autopilot, no enroute descents. Lead points for the radial to arc and arc to radial had to be mentally computed due to the speeds we flew.
I should do that sometime - and without the moving map, of course, with just the DME readout. That'll be fun!
- Martin
Love the videos. Keep up the good work. Hope to get to meet you at DKX for the BT meet!
Yes, I will be there - May 16th 2020. Looking forward to it!
- Martin
Superb video Martin, we have a DME arc close by at Jonesboro,AR my instructor takes particular pleasure in the pain it brings me.
Yes, that is what instructors like to do, isn't it? :-)
- Martin
Thank you, very interesting,, btw Happy New year,,Mike-p
Happy New Year to you as well, Michael!
- Martin
Thanks Martin! Haven't seen that in awhile! Did a little LOL at the "wait for the Bonanza" on short final there.... 8)
I always get a chuckle out of it. The bigger the airplane is which has to wait for the Bonanza, the better! :-)
Of course there is not much of a reason to fly a DME arc anymore these days with GPS and RNAV approaches. Which I guess is a good reason to practice one every now and then, so we don't forget completely.
Best regards, Martin
Thank you Martin for showing that DME Arc Approach. Die kobination zwischen GPS und VOR kann ich verstehen und akzeptieren.Diese Art von Aproach wird ja bei uns nicht mehr oft angewendet. Ohne Autopilot ist dieser Approach sehr schwierig zu fliegen. Viele Grüße Frank
Hallo Frank, DME Arcs sind hier in den USA auch sehr selten geworden, dank GPS und RNAV/PBN Approaches - die ja meist viel einfacher zu fliegen sind.
Herzliche Grüsse aus Iowa!
- Martin
Martin, your timing is perfect. After getting my VFR in August I am now working on my IFR and about 25% of the way through. Been doing instrument approaches of all sorts (both in the Cherokee and in the sim) and this video could not have come at a better time! I was JUST reading about DME arcs over the holidays! Thanks for sharing and come up and visit us in KDBQ sometime!
Hi Bob, keep in mind for your instrument training and checkride, I suspect you'll have to do this without a moving map and with just the DME readout. But it's not hard once you have a mental picture of the procedure. DME distance too large? Correct to the inside of the arc. Distance too short? Straighten it out, correct to the outside of the arc. Done.
Good luck with everything!
- Martin
@@martinpauly Understood, and thanks again for the great videos. Really enjoy them and, as a pretty new pilot, always learning something!
Good idea Martin given VOR's will continue to provide reliable navigation aid to those who are proficient when the next GPS outage happens...I Enjoyed the flight - Happy New year de Mike (Edit: Oh YES It's 'Wait for the Bonanza" time, thanks for providing the look over the shoulder to see who waited)
Thanks for the comment, Mike. All the best for 2020!
- Martin
It was a parallel entry on the hold at SHIRN, but... as long as we're flying on the protected side of the hold, we're good.
DME arcs are fun to fly, especially at KMTN VOR/TACAN RWY 15!
Happy new year eve Martin! See you next year.
You get the "first comment" award on this video! :)
Happy New Year to you as well!
- Martin
@@martinpauly unlike other folks, I m not looking in being the "first" 😁
Great video as always. I personally use the formula GS/200. It works pretty well for GA planes to give the distance to anticipate the turn towards the first section of the ARC.
E.g.
For a 14 DME ARC, under a 90° intercept angle, flying at 120 kts GS gives 120/200=0.6 nm so I ll start the turn at 14+0.6 so 14.6 nm. But I bet you knew this trick already!
double confirm PT with Atc is a great option, thank you martin
Right - if in doubt, ask. That usually works.
- Martin
Loving your work Martin-you`ve come a long way. (you overshot you teardrop as you only flew outbound for 40 secs.1 minute would have worked) ;-)
My instrument lesson this morning was flying DME arcs in the Redbird. My CFII was unkind to me by not allowing me to view the overhead representation image on the G1000 MFD of what the arc actually looks like, or a synthetic vision display of the flight path ahead. I only had the EHSI to use to form a mental picture of where I was and where I had to go.
To put it bluntly, this morning's lesson shook my confidence as I constantly struggled, and we had to pause the simulation again and again :(
There is some discussion going on these days about how instrument students should be taught equipment failures and how to deal with them. While it can be argued that the scenario your CFII took you through is a nice academic exercise to test your situational awareness, it can also be argued that it's not a realistic failure scenario. What kills people much more often is not using how to make good use of all the things that still do work after something fails, and sadly we don't do a good enough job preparing instrument students for this. My two cents. 😁
Regards,
Martin
Matt and I just flew a DME arc over icy lake superior in Duluth!
Hopefully you were not too far off-shore? Pretty cold water down there.
Good luck for wrapping up the instrument rating!
- Martin
@@martinpauly luckily they kept us pretty high but yes, that was definitely on our minds!
yay, a dme arc! next, can u do a video on how to program a VCR? I kid, I kid.....interesting stuff as always.
I know... rarely a reason to fly these anymore. But still fun!
- Martin
Martin Pauly still had to do one for a checkride though. The excuse that I am never going to need this just didn’t go over well.
Great video Martin. Since you are new to Foreflight you may not know that you can get rid of the procedure turn on the iPad as well by tapping on the approach under the FPL tab, and you will get an option to remove it. That way it matches your panel.
Thank you very much, George. I will try that, and that's very helpful to know. As you can see, I still have lots to learn with ForeFlight.
Happy New Year!
- Martin
Great video! If there is GPS failure it is my understanding that you would need an independent DME to fly a DME arc.
Correct - if GPS really failed, I would not be a able to fly this approach with the avionics I have in my airplane. However, many other airplanes still do have an old-fashioned DME in their radio stack.
- Martin
And you’ll get your GPSS. You ain’t living until you have GPSS!
Excellent tutorial and flying! When are you due for the remaining panel update, and which way are you considering to go along? I thing this amazing bonanza is crying out loud for it.Nice river approach with the 737 200. Used to fly for some good years the classic. Keep posting Martin!!!!
Thank you, glad you like the videos. My panel will have to wait a little bit; first I am going to replace my engine with an IO550. Then at some point I'l do something about my panel as well, but I haven't decided yet what that may be. Several nice choices out there.
- Martin
Time to add the Aspen 2000 so you can have dual HSIs. I love that feature on the Aspens. Makes monitoring an overlay easy.
Marauder92V I wish... All my airplane upgrade funds this year will go to a new engine. As nice as an EFUS would be, the engine will need to come first.
- Martin
Martin Pauly use the money towards flying. What you have now is sufficient . Spend money on IFR currency and training. Get your multi
15:45 man that fly scared me, I thought you nearly hit a bird there 😮
I saw it as well
I understand the reluctance to perform the "impossible turn." I can say from experience that it isn't impossible. A friend of mine was doing his primary training and bought a Cessna 152. He wanted to fly it badly so I went along as PIC. At 700' AGL we blew a spark pug out and it started vibrating badly. I took the airplane from him, pulled the power all the way back, and made a 60° bank keeping my airspeed at 65K during the turn. It really wasn't that tight. The worst part was having to push the plane back to the hangar.
I don't claim that the impossible turn is impossible, Matt. But a percentage of those who try fail and die as a result. Returning to the runway from 700 feet AGL can work, but the outcome is far from certain. I am glad it worked out OK for you and your friend.
Regards, Martin
@@martinpauly each individual pilot has to make the decision for himself about whether to turn back or land straight ahead. Had there been any viable options ahead, I might have made a different decision. At the end of the day, turning back likely saved both of our lives. Thankfully, God has given me talent as a stick and rudder pilot.
This was such an Awesome informational video for me! I’m in instrument training right now and I really enjoyed your video!!
I want to get a iPad holder like you have, specifically which are you using??
Thanks! :)
Hi Kayla,
RAM makes a mount which works very well on Bonanzas with the center column ("throw-over yoke"). A lot of people ask about it; I have more info and a link on my website:
martin.aero/wordpress/?page_id=321#faq-ipad-mount
To that you can add the appropriate cradle for the specific iPad model you are using.
Good luck for completing your instrument rating!
- Martin
Nice video Martin! Do you have the navcom stack on the right and the engine instruments on the left by design, or just because that's the way the radio trays were installed?
Thanks! This arrangement is somewhat typical at least in Bonanzas. The cockpit isn't all that wide, so the avionics stack is easy to reach from the left side.
Regards, Martin
Thanks for the video, Martin. I'm inching closer to choosing Avidyne for my Comanche. Have you ever used the IFD100 iPad app? It's free and it allows you to do almost all the operations on the Avidyne from the iPad app.
I have not yet used the IFD100 app. I've seen it at trade shows, and it looks like the perfect companion for a single IFD installation. But given that I have two IFDs already, I'm not sure I need a third similar screen. Though I should probably try it sometime, just to understand what I'm missing.
Al the best for your upgrade, and happy new year!
- Martin
Great video and thanks for taking the time to do this. I have a bonanza and just curious where you got your checklist from and do you like it? Thanks
I made the checklist myself - it's a tailored version of the one in the POH.
Regards, Martin
Nice video. Thanks for sharing. Are you happy with your IFD(s)? I'm thinking of adding the 440 as part of a panel upgrade and complement to my Dynon EFIS configuration. Did you consider the GTN at all?
I am very happy with my IFDs. The screens are fantastic; this latest video really doesn't do them justice because I messed up the exposure setting on the camcorder I was using.
I looked at the IFDs and the GTNs. The GTNs look like a very nicely repackaged GNS, with a modern user interface and a good display but still a simpler navigator under the hood, whereas the IFD seems to have been built around a more capable navigation engine. Plus the IFDs were much easier to install im my airplane, as they were replacing the old GNS units - no new rack, no wiring changes. I am very happy with how that all turned out.
Regards, Martin
@@martinpauly Thanks, Martin. That's a good endorsement. I actually like like the knobs, and that was one feature that was pushing me in the IFD direction. I like the buttons and knobs on my Dynon Skyview system, especially in choppy air. I really wish I could fit a 550 in my panel. I love the size of that display, but I just don't have enough room. Thanks again for taking the time to put these together, especially the IFR/IMC stuff. It's very helpful. BTW, I used Foreflight and FlyQ side by side for a year and ended up going with FlyQ. Absolutely love it. Might be worth a try.
Question about the ATC conversation showing up on the screen how do you do it. Enjoying all the close ups of the instrument panel. Happy New Year.
Are you asking how I add the ATC caption during video editing? Well, I add a text element to the video timeline and type in what they say.
Not sure if this really answers your question...
Best regards, Martin
Martin Pauly Yes thank you that is what I meant. Happy 2020
Hi Martin, thank you for another great video, enjoy them all. Wondering if you can help? You have a good video on your camera setup; I have two GoPros, one on the wing and am having constant issues connecting via Wi-Fi on both my phone as well as GoPro Wi-Fi remote control. Can’t seem to duplicate the problem outside the plane, always connects. Called GoPro but no resolution. Wondering if you’ve ever experienced these issues? I’m thinking it could be with the Wi-Fi between my radios and my iPad interfering with the GoPro Wi-Fi. Any thoughts?
Hi Andrew. I never use WIFI with my GoPros, so I'm afraid I don't have any good advice for you. Good luck for figuring it out!
Regards, Martin
Thank you for the reply, keep up the good work!
How do you record intercom audio?
I show the setup here:
czcams.com/video/BRIHksl3MpY/video.html
A parts list is in the video description.
- Martin
I'm pretty sure there is no need to fly the course reversal if you are straight in for RNAV 31. MORSE is an IAF as well as IF. I'll check that out with my CFII, though.
You can avoid the course reversal on the RNAV 31 at KCID by getting vectors to final or by using SOLUM or HAVLI as your initial approach fix (IAF), because those say "NoPT" on the chart. If you use MORSE as IAF, the chart says you have to fly the course reversal.
Regards,
Martin
@@martinpauly I learn something new everyday. I thought ANY approach from the "direct" direction of a hold allowed you to continue on the approach without doing the entire hold. Seems crazy to do the hold for the RNAV 31 if you're already on a heading close to 310 degrees. But, what do I know? (-: It must have something to do with altitude restrictions. If approach control is not on duty, you can't descend below 4000 until you are inbound from either at HAVLI or SOLUM. So, I would assume you must descend the last 1000 feet while in the holding pattern? Thanks. Your videos are great!
@@azcharlie2009 It's not because of the altitude restrictions, it's just how the lateral path is charted on this approach. The FAA is slowly transitioning to a better (in my opinion) way, replacing the MSA (minimum safe altitude) circle on the approach plates with the TAA (terminal arrival area) which allows more flexibility when approaching the IAF via GPS. The RNAV 25 approach at KIOW (Iowa City, IA) is a good example - note how it says "NoPT" for arriving at BUCKA (IAF) anywhere from the east. I hope we'll see more and more approaches transition to this scheme in the future.
On this video there was a lot of glare from the IFD screen...FYI
It's actually not glare but an overexposed recording of the avionics. I'll need to do something similar again with a better recording.
Regards,
Martin
20:42 well, if you want to train for a GPS outage, you may want to deactivate GPS on the iPad and deactivate the GPS functions of your airplane completely.
Flying a VOR approach while looking at two maps with convenient position dots on a map isn't going to help you to train this scenario properly 😙🎶
Valid point, Ruben. Now, since I don't have a "real" DME and rely on GPS as a substitute, without GPS I couldn't do the DME arc with my avionics. Still, I'll try to repeat this experiment without the moving maps, just going by distance and raw VOR data. That'll be much closer to the real thing.
Happy New Year!
- Martin
@@martinpauly an GPS outage is a pretty unlikely scenario, though. Maybe one receiver can fail, but you have two. Even if the GPS system as a whole goes down or there's an interference in the frequency - you should be able to pick up other GNS systems, like Galileo or Glonass.
But running a scenario like you described is probably still a good idea :)
What's probably much more likely is an elec failure. So an USB Isolator (as over voltage protection) for the iPad or a large batterypack to seperate both systems is probably a good idea.
Maybe look up what typically fails on your type of aircraft and go through your system and how you would get still safely to the ground. Backup plans like using your phone's compass and bubble level doesn't count 😋
Frohes Neues Jahr von Deutschland 😙🎶
Your radio communication has definitely improved!
But: Have you cut out the first call to clearance, or did you really made that long call with the whole story as initial call? 😂
You forgot the time check :-)
I guess you were joking, but just to be sure - no time check required on this particular approach. The Missed Approach Point (MAP) is identified via DME.
Best, Martin
@@martinpauly When flying a procedure turn while entering a holding, there should be a time check - at least that is what I've learned - in a tear drop entry you should proceed at least 1 minute outbound, in order not to overshoot the inbound track.
@@michaelmitiszek1538 OK, now I understand. And you are right, going by the book I should have timed this hold. I guess in real life the time checks are often not done these days because the GPS plans and shows the holding pattern more accurately than I could plan it myself with just a stop watch - and the protected airspace is large. Excuses, excuses - I know. At the end of the day, you are right - I should have timed it. Next time! :-)
Thanks, and best regards, Martin
???? Chart SAYS, HAVLI to MORSE --- NoPT---
Yes, the chart does say that. But I wasn't coming from HALVI. I came from that general direction, of course, but my clearance was direct MORSE for the initial approach fix (IAF). And that requires the course reversal, unless something different is negotiated with ATC as happened here.
Best, Martin
I dont think he was ever cleared to navigate to HAVLI. From what I saw/heard he was only cleared to MORSE, in which case he would have to execute the procedure turn, which is why he asked if he could do the straight in approach instead. His direct course to MORSE made it look like he was actually flying to HAVLI on the ipad. (I could have heard wrong.)
Greetings Martin from 06C !
@@matthewmoglia8898 Spot on!
- Martin
Z
Your boring... Not everyone has inhanced navigation eather...
Boring... alright. A boring flight is where everybody lives and the airplane is not damaged. I'll take boring over exciting when I fly.
- Martin
How many beers the day before?