CYPRUS | Can It Still Be Solved?
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- čas přidán 9. 06. 2024
- Cyprus has become a model of a seemingly unsolvable conflict in international relations. Over the past sixty years, the United Nations has repeatedly attempted to find a bridge between the island’s Greek and Turkish Cypriot communities - but without success. All this has led many observers to increasingly question whether a settlement can be found. So, can Cyprus ever be solved?
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The Mediterranean island of Cyprus has become a byword for intractable conflict. Rich in history, the island was settled by Bronze Age Greeks almost 4000 years ago. Since then, it has come under the rule of numerous civilisations - including Egyptians, Romans, Byzantines, Crusaders and the Venetians - before being conquered by the Ottoman Empire in 1571. This led to the creation of the Turkish Cypriot community. However, in 1878 the Ottomans handed the island to Britain as part of a defence agreement. While this led to Greek Cypriot calls for union with Greece (enosis), these were repeatedly rejected. In 1955, the Greek Cypriots launched a campaign to end British rule and unite with Greece - a campaign that led to Turkish Cypriots calls for Cyprus to be partitions (taksim). Instead, Greece and Turkey reached a compromise and in 1960 the Republic of Cyprus was created. However, the complex power sharing agreement soon collapsed, which led to the creation of a United Nations peacekeeping force, UNFICYP. In 1974 the island was divided when Turkey invaded Cyprus following an attempt by the Greek military government to annex the Island. Since then, efforts to reunite the island as a bizonal, bicommunal federation have continued without success. Today, many ask whether Cyprus is now destined to remain forever divided. Or can Cyprus still be solved?
CHAPTERS
0:00 Introduction and Titles
0:49 Cyprus: An Unsolvable Conflict?
1:43 Background to Cyprus
3:03 A Brief History of Cyprus
4:54 The Emergence of the Cyprus Problem, 1960-1974
6:01 Interlude: A Tour of Varosha
6:31 UN Settlement Efforts in Cyprus since 1974
8:06 The Key Issues of Disagreement in Cyprus
10:18 The Obstacles to a Cyprus Settlement
13:15 Can Cyprus Still Be Solved?
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FURTHER READING & USEFUL SOURCES
UN Mission of Good Offices unficyp.unmissions.org/about-...
Cyprus Ministry of Foreign Affairs mfa.gov.cy
'TRNC' Ministry of Foreign Affairs mfa.gov.ct.tr
The Cyprus Problem: What Everyone Needs to Know amzn.to/2FaaBU2
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KEYWORDS
#Cyprus #Turkey #Reunification
#InternationalPolitics #CurrentAffairs #InternationalRelations
#TRNC #NorthernCyprus
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For over sixty years, the UN has tried to broker a Cyprus agreement. But what little hope existed for a settlement seems to be finally fading. So, do you still think Cyprus can be solved? And, if reunification isn't possible, then what's the realistic alternative? Looking forward to hearing your thoughts and comments below.
Are you going probably to make a vodeo about a current tension between Serbia and Kosovo
Dear professor do you have any comment about positive or negative impacts of Cyprus' EU accession?
Unification of Cyprus means starting of new inter communal fighting between Greeks and Turks
If peace is desired in cyprus then it is better to keep the border as it is
After all peace was restored in Cyprus after 1974 and not before
From 1955 to 1974 bloodshed was all over the island
Since 1974 all bloodshed between Greeks and Turks has stopped
So why start the bloodshed again by unifying the island
@@msbayramoglu1 It is different times now. Greece isnt run by power hungry fascist colonels, we are a democracy. There are Greek and Turkish Cypriots living together in harmony in the few mixed villages that still remain, the greatest example being Pyla in the buffer zone. I think peace can exist. However Turkey will never accept this, because they will lose direct control over the island. After all tbe majority in the occupied part are illegal Turkish settlers.
Cyprus is going to remain divided forever.
I was 8 years old we left all my toys behind thinking I’ll be back in a few days , 48 years later still waiting
I would love to see a video discussing how Cyprus was incorporated into the European Union, despite the fractured nature of the island.
The whole act was an illegal fait accompli.
The only reason why Cyprus joined the EU was because the then President Clerides believed that he had solved the Cyprus problem. But the truth was that joining the EU had ruined our economy. To date, the EU is unable to impose sanctions on Turkey because the Americans operate a base in Famagusta and it is strategically very important to them.
@@arescyp our economy isn’t ruined
Why not, it's an independent state, recognised by the UN. As far as EU, UN and the the international community is concerned, the whole island remains to be territory of the Republic of Cyprus (excluding some UK bases, but that's another topic of discussion).
@@stevelam5898 the Greek part of Cyprus is recognized by all countries. the Turkish occupied part only from Turkey. a 2-state solution is out of the question
I know the story of modern Cyprus, however Professor James Ker-Lindsay presents so well and provides such excellent coverage - a compelling discussion that is an absolute pleasure to view. Many thanks PJKL.
Thank you so much Brian. It is such a fascinating country, with a very difficult modern history. As you may know, this is a particularly personal video for me as I lived out here and have spent most of my academic career working on the issue.
well he was lying a lot. but who cares right? kibris was NEWER part of greece before. after britain got the island from ottomans after a cease fire aggreement with russia they tried to give it to greece later. it was until then NEWER part of greece. it belonged to karthage - egypt - persia - rome - mix christian rulers - arabs - venecia - turkey
@@Knightfire66 but Cyprus was also never part of Turkey it was the Ottoman Empire. If you say the Ottoman Empire is turkey than Greece also owned Cyprus because the Byzantine empire who also owned Istanbul before the Turkish invaded Istanbul owned Cyprus for hundreds of years and Greece sees itself in tradition of the Byzantine empire
@@dszxnavtiisx6384 ottoman were = turks. language was turkish. byzantine was roman who talked latin. and later they changed to greec. thats a difference. but to be more precise. cyprus talked latin back then. NOT greec. also byzantine till late 12-13 century talked officially latin and not greec.
Free north Cyprus
I am involved and work in the political-I.R field since I was adolescent, this informative video is undoubtedly correct, summary and unbiased, and maintains viewer's interest. Well done!
Thank you so much Kostas. I really appreciate it.
as a turk i completely agree with you. mr. lindsay is very objective and unbaised. i hope the politicians will stop blaming each other and stop being greedy on both sides so we can keep living in peace.
Yay at last a new episode. I was getting tired of watching reruns of Taiwan, Bosnia, Romanian reunification etc 😅
Haha! Sorry about that. But I really needed a break.
@@JamesKerLindsay No problem. Making amazing content can take a toll 😅
Hi James,
I am an Englishman, aged 26 who lived in TRNC for 18 months between 2020-2022. I first visited in 2017 and have been there ~5 times for total of ~2 years.
I moved (temporarily, mind) in 2020 as my partner being a Turkish speaking Cypriot, personal circumstances and COVID-19. In turn I ended up living with her family such is the standard Cypriot atittude to hospitality and family life.
I'd like to think I have a good grasp on the events going on in Cyprus. Having been with my partner for 6 years, working in Cyprus and having copious conversations on the Cyprus problem with natives.
Your video here is without the best summary of events I've seen. There was an American documentarian who for me, made a mockery of the Cyprus problem. Alas, you've nailed it on the head.
Thank you for bringing the news and details which unfortunately Cyprus just doesn't manage to get out to the west themselves. I think due to Cyprus' island nature, lack of high quality and unbiased content, there isn't much that gets out.
Thank you so much! I really appreciate it. It must have been a really interesting experience living in the north. I actually lived on the island for a total of eight years at various points. (In Nicosia, the southern part.) It really is a wonderful place and I miss it a lot. It is so nice to be back after a long break during Covid. It’s just sad to have to take such a pessimistic view of the situation.
@@JamesKerLindsay Interesting is definitely a diplomatic adjective! Interesting it was indeed.
8 years explains a lot about your understanding as it certainly shows!
The pessimism is rife really, people in my generation and the two above all speak with the same negativity towards the possibility of a solution. With each displaying more apathy than the last. Much like you said the lack of understanding for the other side really hurts both sides case towards a solution.
My partner went on peace camps when she was younger and spoke to other Greek Cypriots gaining a lot of knowledge. Unfortunately it also put a bad taste with some of the teachings going on the South in respect to some of the Xenophobia teachings.
It's just sad that such a beautiful place with such a unique culture is in this place.
I live there atm, and ive also seen the american guys video. You are right, its a joke, and opened my eyes to how biased the rest of his topics i know less about lrobably are.
@@whyshouldwecare3267 Me, my partner and her parents all watched it. Her parents are TCs, their parents all lived under the British Colony rule. So they're not settlers etc.
They were both appauled by the nonsense and I think the guy is much less factually orientated than he is cinematographically.
@@master0fnone sorry who are you reffering to exactly?
This is the best analysis of the situation I have ever heard. To the point, balanced, measured and based in reality. Not afraid to suggest that perhaps, time has simply run out for unification to succeed.
Thank you very much. It is an incredibly frustrating situation. Trying to get the two sides lined up at the same time has sadly proven impossible. I hope it isn’t the end of the road. I have close ties to the island. But with every year it gets harder to see how a settlement will be reached.
We tend to assume that over time differences will start to soften, especially as a younger generation that was not involved in the conflicts rises up. However, as Professor JKL intones, it also creates generations that are used to being divided.
James, it is so nice hearing you explain conflict either at university or online. Thank you!)
I've been in Cyprus a couple of years ago, and I was amazed by this beautiful island. I really hope the cypriots can find peace without the interference of foreign countries.
Hi Marco, it is a fascinating place, isn’t it. I always find it so jarring to think that this is a major holiday destination and yet there is still a 60-year UN peacekeeping force here. I hope all else is well with you.
Thank you for this comment. As a Cypriot that fled off the Island. I been saying this for years.
@@JamesKerLindsay It's not strange. We Greeks are so civilized that even in the toughest environment we'd thrive.
@@zorro-hq6qp the cub against marios it was usa and british through the greek hunda, so you know nothing about and write what ever you like!!!
So as cypriot I know nothing about and you know everything!
Probably you are british or american 🤣🤣🤣
The context has considerably changed since 2004 as Turkey sees surrendering the North of Island now an existential threat. This makes a settlement much harder to reach.
One of the reasons for the Turkish fear is because of the EEZ claims clashing between Greece and Turkey. If this issue was to be solved, it has to be one of the later ones that will follow the issues in the Agean.
Whatever side wants bigger government is the threat.
Enosis was/is the threat. As you can see in this video Greek side didn't obey the agreement. And still tons of Greek don't want to live with Turkish Cypriots.
There would have to be some guarantees this time that Greek Cypriots and the government of Greece would not seek to impose unification of the whole of the island with Greece. Can't see that guarantee ever being given so the only way forward is to recognise the existence of two separate states.
I love it when you travel to the location you are analyzing!
Thanks so much Fredo. I love doing them as well. But as you well know it presents all sorts of other challenges. In this case, the sun was so bright that the exposure was a real problem. I actually couldn't use a lot off the footage I filmed. (Not happy about that as I almost got heatstroke filming in Nicosia. 40C!) And don't get me started on the cicadas. Almost deafening. In the end, I used the bloody things as my soundtrack. :-)
How is everything with you?
@@JamesKerLindsay Yes, it is always a LOT more complicated once you go outside. I struggle with the sun myself, and that's usually here in the UK, so I can imagine how hard that would be in Cyprus. I think you did a great job, and I actually like the cicadas. I'm doing well - I hope to have a new video out early next week (about the Chagos Islands). :)
@@FredoRockwell The funny thing is that the U.K. sun really messes around with you as well. A professional photographer friend told me that it is really difficult to manage as the cloud cover plays hell with exposure. In Cyprus, it’s not that it varies. It’s just that it’s so bright. You can’t be in the direct sun as it is too much (and try working with a autocue!), but as soon as you’re in shade everything else becomes over exposed. All good lessons learned though. :-)
Really looking forward to seeing the video on the Chagos Islands.
@@JamesKerLindsay Yes, that's it exactly. I've stood in front of embassies many times trying to talk about them on camera only for the different exposures to make it impossible to see the embassy!
I hope you'll like it. It's more about an issue adjacent to the Chagos Islands. An intersection of geopolitics and the tech sector!
@@JamesKerLindsay Why didn't you record at evenings? Why under the scorched sun? You could do it at much better hours.
The impression I got when I was there a few years ago was that both sides found the status quo largely tolerable. Unlike in Ireland in the 1990's or Israel-Palestine up through today, there's practically no political violence in Cyprus, and Cypriots from both sides can freely cross the border. It just seemed like it wasn't a very pressing issue, and with no "push" factors toward a settlement, it seems like neither side has any real incentive to make any concessions to make one happen. The only factor that's actually pushing towards reunification is Ankara's increasingly hands-on influence in TRNC, which as you pointed out is irking many Turkish Cypriots. North Cyprus has generally been much more politically liberal than Turkey, and the economic incentives of joining Cyprus, an EU member state and successful liberal democracy, are pretty clear over the prospect of being annexed by Turkey, which is an authoritarian regime inching towards international pariah-hood. Even this is slow-going and is unlikely to be a deciding factor in the short-to-medium term, unless Erdogan massively overplays his hand. Which is far from impossible.
Very spot on
I'm also curious if and how the Turkish Cyprus position will change given the potential for a major Turkish recession from the Lira. I doubt it would be unification but likely some integration maybe.
I agree that both sides find it tolerable. I feel the problem is the youth in both sides have some form of wealth coming... GCs have access to the EU and further investment and developments would expect good dividends for the youth. Which of course the TCs would love to have access to, who wouldn't really when Ankara continues to destory the TL.
But the TCs have wealth passed down from grandparents and parents, many parents, aged 50+ enjoyed good times with little competition and could build business establishing themselves post 1974. That money being passed down generation to generation for a large amount of young people is getting diluted due to the TL collapsing.
When I lived in the TRNC it was clear that many TCs were happy with "Maaş (salary), Mercedes and Kebap" as I like it to put it. It's a very brutal approach to the ideals of TCs but it was quite evident that most had developed a huge amount of apathy to the Cyprus problem. They seem to have accepted the situation and just want somewhat of a prosperous life. I think over the past 2 years this sentiment has changed due to any chance of a prosperous life is now very difficult. Please don't get me wrong there are no real TCs who want Ankara, many do what peace and unification. Unfortunately there are two sides to this coin, the more liberal and progressives amongst the TCs see a united Cyprus but unfortauntely an opposite exists within the older generation who remember life post 1974 and were succumb to Denktaş' ideals... such is the case of an Island, poor English literacy (poor access to external media) and a vision of the "olden" days. Many of these type want a seperate TRNC and to be seperate much like Prof James mentions in the video.
But to wind back round to the tolerable-ness of the problem. The TCs are going to have to make some pretty big concessions and with Ankara basically controlling everything like an invisible puppetmaster it makes it just that much harder. The GCs have little to gain, if Turkey does somehow go on some "mad one" and try and annex the TRNC then do they really think that Turkey stops at where the UN says so? Pfft. No chance. I don't really know the chances of that. I doubt Turkey will do much as right now they use the TRNC as a means of money laundering, mafia and drug trade. The TRNC currently is also currently a huge funnel for sex/child/human trafficking and other horrific crimes. If they annex TRNC all that crime and means of money goes up in smoke and suddenly their little playground has everyones eyes on it.
@@enduser8410 There are TCs who would rather live on the street than unify with the GCs. Not to say they're pro-Turkey but they love the idea of the TRNC. Denktaş really messed up the elders' attitudes.
I am a Turkish Cypriot and you're right, we're willing to make concessions but the major concessions that is asked isn't a realistic option for us. In my personal option, even though Greek Cypriots push for a federal solution they don't actually want it they see the whole island as theirs, that pipe dream still hasn't died, and Turkish Cypriots won't accept to be treated like second class citizens again. Something dramatic would have to happen for the status quo to change.
Keep doing the detailed source presentation of conflict in other international disputed entities as in this one! Only when knowing both sides arguments can an average viewer learn about it. Cheers from Croatia
Thanks so much Ante. I will try my best. This is a conflict I know particularly well as I have worked on it for 30 years. It really has been my career!
turkish cypriot here, the idea of unification became an abstract idea in the past years, nobody follows the progress or anything regarding on the topic of unification anymore.
Thanks. I think you are absolutely right. And that is the sad thing. As I mentioned in the video, many Greek and Turkish Cypriots have given up. And many young people from both communities see the 'other side' as a foreign land and the other community as alien.
@@JamesKerLindsay Because they are alien. Greeks cypriots descendent of levantine farmers who hellenized by eastern roman empire, turkish cypriots descendent of anatolian shia turkmens whom ottoman empire settled to island as a punishment for supporting safavids against ottoman empire.Later they chosed sunni because of this.
It's a rare thing to see unbiased videos on the Cyprus dispute. Excellent analysis.
Thanks so much Constantinos. Do perhaps also take a look at my follow up Q&A on Cyprus (also filmed on the island). czcams.com/video/20syKiyPgqY/video.html
Great to see you out again James, presenting on location!
Thanks so much Asa. It was really nice to be out in Cyprus again. It's really my second home. But I hadn't been over for a while with the pandemic. How is everything with you?
@@JamesKerLindsay Everything is fine over here. Thank you! 🙂
I got CZcams monetization a few days ago which I am happy about, trouble is. It's only a few cents a day. 😅😂 It adds up regardless.
Another great video though James. I always enjoy your takes on Cyprus!
You’ve outdone yourself, sir! Keep it up, and thank you.
Thank you so much. This was a very personal video for me as I know Cyprus very well. I’d really have loved to do a full length video on it. But hopefully this got across the main points.
@@JamesKerLindsay Yes. Cyprus is endlessly fascinating. This was an excellent intro for anyone not familiar and a great refresher for anyone that is.
Welcome back after two weeks of break, Mr James.
Thanks. I needed the break! :-)
Amazing video, clearly articulated and factually correct. I myself grew up in the South listening to all the history from the perspective of the Greek Cypriots and only after growing up I can see the pains and wants of both sides. My mom was also displaced in 1974 when she was 13 years old which of course sucked. Anyways, both sides have committed atrocities, but there were also many examples of villages with a Christian church next to a mosque, and everyone living in peace. As you said, the Cyprus dispute is not a particularly complex issue (just fragile egos), it just needs the political will to move the needle forward, especially now that there is new data since the Anan plan. For example:
The landscape has changed quite a bit with the ascession of Cyprus into the EU. In my opinion, while Cyprus as a bizonal federation can certainly have political dead-locks, it is now at least in the EU which means both sides will be EU citizens and EU citizen rights come first. If anyone commits a crime, he/she should get the maximum pentalty due to the sensitivity of the situation, and also because it is against an EU citizen.
Turkish Cypriots, with a Cyprus passport (without a Greek or Turkish label) and access to the EU, will essentially have the same rights and have access to the same services. This is important for proper incorporation of the 2 communities and their respective rights. This was not possible before the EU and hence the need for the outdated guarantor system.
Also, since the border opening there are more and more border crossings between the 2 sides. That helps the newer generations get to know each side better. My friends go from the South to the North to spend the day there and save some money because things are cheaper in the North. But I could certaintly see this being Turkish Cypriots coming to the South to get employed or get medical care or have some vacation.
Another thing that could help is pushing joint projects between the 2 sides. School projects, business projects, regional development funds, tax-breaks, joint energy projects, etc.
I hope, that one day, any Cypriot, Greek or Turkish can enjoy stability and prosperity. A common government that represents both sides correctly and under strict EU law would be the best in my opinion. Both sides can get closure and move on!
Hi Marios, thanks for looking at this with a much more objective lens than others but still "both sides have committed atrocities" is a "tiny little bit" an understatement. Also, I don't see why two separate independent states is a problem. Can you tell why?
@@Jupiterhalo89 Well joint projects are needed for prosperity I would say and joint projetcs are easier in a single state. A two state solution can still provide this benefit if both states work closely together. That would nevertheless require political good will and the curbing of Turkish and Greek foreign influence.
My mother was 14 when she was displaced from the north, and I share a lot of your sentiments, though I live in NZ
Thank you for your video. People can get caught up with which nationality or which side was wrong and who was right. I hope that all nationalities involved have learned that we are all mortal and need to treat each other with a lot more kindness and a lot more respect to each of these cultures and nationalities. The fusion of nationalities and cultures is what make Cyprus so special and so rich in tradition, culture and history. The wounds of conflict will slowly heal when we learn to love each other more. Sometimes with other governments they announce a formal mutual apology. I hope this situation will get better and I hope each side can one day begin to be better friends with each other and have mutual respect.
Thank you Chris. I completely agree, it is the mix that makes Cyprus so special and interesting. And some sort of acknowledgement of past wrong doings would help. Sadly, though, in such situations one side apologises and then the other uses that to prove that they were abused and are the victims. So no one wants to be the first. It really is unfortunate.
..well stayed ...!
Actually ..
VERY WELL ..!
I'll catch the ..RESPECT word you wrote by the end..!
..AND ..YES..!
the professor ..is right..!
Well said Chris I have always mention that it's both cultures that makes Cyprus so special. What a party it would be if there was a just solution .Maybe if a couple of non official/government organisations could make an event where both sides apologised and admitted their mistakes . This would surely make headlines
Living together between different ethnicities and cultures as a "state" must fail if there is no common, higher goal / reason of existance for all citizens.
Perhaps a federation based on proportion? The Turks would
most likely oppose that.
Exactly right.
@@thebalkanhistorian.3205 lmao, ofcourse. They want nothing less than get recognised their fake puppet state by the world.
Thats not the reason Cyprus failed literally 2 other countries were looking for their own interests
@@Golifa that is on a secondary level, an after-effect if you will
Great video, very informative. I taught English in Cyprus around 10 years ago, I feel it is time to return, really a fantastic place.
Thanks so much. It really is a great place, isn’t it!? It was wonderful to be back. Too nice really. :-)
The best thing about this channel is the fact that the host goes to the place he talks about.
Well done Prof, very well explained
Thank you very much Murat.
Thank you for all these very interesting videos!
Cool to have one on location :D
Glad you are back!
I love the fact that you actually travel to film these.
Thank you so much. I really do enjoy making these videos when I can. Although I’ve discovered that filming on location is often a lot more difficult than it seems! :-)
@@JamesKerLindsay I assume it is not easy, especially out in the open. Light, equipment, noises, interruptions, etc. That's why I appreciate the effort you put in it.
Quite an outstanding assessment & lay down of the situation. Thanks for your great work.
Thanks for this new video. Very informative and interesting.
Thanks.
Love the footage you've brought here! Top notch
Thanks so much!
Just a question, if it was difficult to consider an agreement when basically the sides were EU - Cypriots - Turkey, how much more of a problem is it going to be now that sides have increased to EU - Cypriots - Turkey - UK?
I feel like Cyprus is going to be a trade coin everytime there's a contentious dispute between any of the major players there, let's face it this is not going to be solved anytime soon.
It will never be solved and guess what it's the Turkish Cypriots that suffer not the Greeks that's why we don't care anymore
Hi Prof, I was in the RAF in Cyprus in 74.. You have to understand the brutality of what the Greeks and Turks did to each other and the history of the Greece and Turkey. They just do not get on. And it really is as simple as that. They have long memories and as in the Balkans and many other places that memory will take a long time to go. If ever! Look at Russia and Ukraine, the first thing a Ukraine Kid will tell you is of Joe Stalin's Famine.
When you have seen a Greek National Guard Land Rover pulling a Turkish woman around on a chain, you have to wonder at the mentality.... Sorry, but thats the truth of a lot of these never ending ethnic wars..
I wish you luck. I served in the UN, as a civilian observer after the RAF and I wish I had a pound for every time I have shook my head at the savagery of people and what they do to each other in the name of faith or ethnicity.
I could go on, but you would have to serve a bloody good lunch.
Not to forget the brutality forces which the British Forces did to the Cypriots in the 50's!
According to the Lausanne Agreement of 1923 on the exchange of population between Greece and Turkey. The Turks must move out of the Greek islands.
Turks have been staying in Cyprus for the past 100 years completely illegally...
The Solution to the problems in Kosovo and Cyprus is identical: Expulsion of Albanians from Kosovo and Turks from Cyprus is the only fair and best solution.
Yes there is little trust between the communities. The Greeks always remember the ethnic cleansing in Anatolia in the early1900's and years later the riots in Turkey between 1955-1960 of the Greek-speaking residents who were reduced from approximately 79,691 to 65,139.
There were groups who started stoning the windows of shops and businesses that belonged to non-Muslims. In a short while, clusters of people equipped with tools to destroy houses, shops, churches and schools rushed into neighbourhoods around Taksim such as Beyoğlu, Kurtuluş, Şişli, Nişantaşı, which were traditionally known as non-Muslim residential and business districts. In a similar manner, acts of violence took place in remoter districts of Istanbul such as Eminönü, Fatih, Eyüp, Bakırköy, Yeşilköy, Ortaköy, Arnavutköy, and Bebek, in addition to Asian quarters such as Moda, Kadıköy, Kuzguncuk, Çengelköy, and on the Prince Islands. It is estimated that approximately one hundred thousand people took part in these attacks.
As long as the illegal occupation of Northern Cyprus by Turkey continues, it is highly unlikely Cyprus will be unified.
@@nikim5051 Just implying Turks destroyed Greek people in Turkey during 6-7 October events and ignoring the massacred bade by the Greeks in Morea, Thessalonica and many others is very one sided and nationalistic.
@@atakanpayman Was is not nationalistic the attempt of homogenisation... the Genocide of Pontian Greeks in Pontos, Greeks in Smyrni along with Armenians and Assyrians during 1919-1922 under Attaturks instructions in Anatolia?
Stating historical facts does not necessarily make someone a nationalist!
Brilliant! Very insightful video. I’d love to know where you got your crystal ball from?
The ottomans were not the first Turks in Cyprus. Mumluk Kipchak turk slave soldiers and Christian Turkic Turkopol soldiers had existed on the island far before the Ottoman Empire
Yeah..!
Write and a new history now..!
You people are so unbelievable..!
You should know that more than the 1/3 of the Turkish Cypriots are X - Christians termed to Muslims during the Ottomans times ,just because of their heavy taxes..!
1963: You mention the Greek Cypriot proposals (Makarios' 13 Points). You forgot to mention that Foreign Office encouraged Makarios to put forward the amendments, and even helped to draft them!
Thanks William. Of course, I didn’t forget. But it’s the usual thing of trying to balance what’s needed for someone who doesn’t know much about Cyprus with what isn’t. I’d already been clear about Britains’s role in holding on to Cyprus even after Turkey relinquished its claims and the fact that it retains bases. That made the point about the UK’s role. (In fact, if anything I left out the positive things Britain did, such as rallying international condemnation of the 1983 UDI.) Obviously, there were also plenty of other transgressions by all sides I could have mentioned. But it would just become a listing exercise that would confuse a newcomer to the issue. In fact, I’m rather pleased that this was the main point you picked up on. It suggests it was probably fairly balanced otherwise. :-)
@@JamesKerLindsay From recently published munites of the House of Lords from 1956 we read about Lord Radcliffe’s proposals for giving Cypriots the right of self determination but to separately include the minority Turkish Cypriots who were spread all over the island. If This course of action is preferred he concluded will lead to geographical partition. That Great Britain’s strategy served its purpose of maintaining UK control of the island up today with the SBAs.
Unfortunately It has given Turkey the chance to enter Cyprus again using the Turkish Cypriots minority. Nowadays the real question is whether UK, the US and the West in general should allow an opportunist Erdogan and Turkey control Cyprus and be allowed to be the region’s leader.
Very illuminating video/ I have family in Cyprus and the last part of the video outlining that younger generations are more hardline when it comes to this issue is correct. They grew up with stories of the other side, which were reinforced when they did military service. Their parents or grandparents on the other hand could remember as you said some shared times. Maybe the status quo then is a better solution
Thanks so much. So true. The views of the young really worry me as there is little by way of a relationship to build on. At one time I’d have said that while a settlement was preferable, the status quo could hold. But I’m not sure that the status quo can remain as it was for much longer. It was possible when Turkey was essentially anchored in the West as a NATO member and EU candidate. But I think Turkey is going in a worrying direction. This could change things. All in all, it is depressing. And both sides - and Turkey - have to take responsibility for where we are.
@@JamesKerLindsay On the Greek Cypriot side it will be interesting to see what the generation coming of age thinks. My brother in law is in his mid 40's like me. And basically, he was born a couple years after his dad had to leave his home in the north, then 2 years of military service on the wall looking at the enemy formatted him. He is not an extremist but would want something that is not possible - give his father back his youth and possibility to grow up in their home village. HIs kids are now coming of age and I don't think they see things the same way. I remember around 10 years ago we went to Nicosia to see the demarcation and his kids and my kids were all excited because we were going to see "Turkey". They were below 10 years old and they thought we were going to see turkeys at a petting zoo. When we explained that this was the north occupied by Turkey and and their ancestral village was there this did nothing to lessen their disappointment. Now the issue is whether their generation as thy grow up see this issue as foreign to them which could lead them to take a more pragmatic view or not. And whether time is on their side and of course whether Turkey doesn;t meddle too much (and if I remember rightly, there is also some issue with oil and gaz field discovery or their potential that complicates matter in the last few years). But last question, could the solution come from some of the older folks who may want some evolution to be able for example to be buried close to the place of their birth? would that in your mind solve some of the issues? I always had the feeling that some of the older displaced folks were nostalgic but had somehow accepted the fact they had a new home.
@@JamesKerLindsay i grew up there and know of people of my generation who refuse to even go and look a their lost properties...in my view i agree that there are easy solution with huge IFs, the biggest one lying at turkey's door. have you ever in history seen Turkey or its predecessors ever give up a position unless at a point of 'strangulation''?
@@JamesKerLindsay if I may, I would like to alert you to a slight correction: "Turkiye is going in a worrying direction" is slightly untrue. A better statement is "Turkiye is being pushed away from West", considering it is EU who is not accepting Turkiye, it is USA who is giving billions of dollars worth of armaments to PKK to attack Turkiye and again it is USA who rejected giving F35s and Patriot defense systems to Turkiye, and it is USA and France who is establishing military bases in Greece, giving tanks, drones, F35s and Rafale planes to Greece against Turkiye. If West was embracing Turkiye, I don't think Turkiye would be going in a worrying direction. Don't you agree?
@@PhilipDjaferis Turkey actually did multiple times, even Erdogan did in the 2000s, from 1940 to the 60s Greece was an autocratic monarchy and then a militaristic and belligerent dicature while Turkey was more free, in the 80s and more recently it is the contrary.
Also most powers don't give up a position, not just Turkey, China can't recognize Tibet's special status, France refuses to apologize to Algeria and has a hard time letting New Caledonia go, I don't think I need to elaborate about Russia, the US have refused to leave Afghanistan for 20 years and now they are embargoing it as well as Iran, India and Pakistan are incapable of coming to a settlement regarding Kashmir... The stubborness of greater powers that never want to back down because of their arrogance is an issue for many people. Yet it is more or less severe (the US and Russia's arrogance have disrupted millions of lives, Turkey isn't on that level, Erdogan or not). I agree that Turkey shouldn't interfere, but Greece or the west shouldn't either, the best solution for Cyprus can only be found by cypriots.
A very fair and balanced presentation of the problem
Thank you very much indeed, Paris. It’s certainly not easy to strike a balanced view on Cyprus, but I hope I was fair.
@@JamesKerLindsay Kudos must be given when kudos are merited. Especially when dealing with such a sensitive issue
Thank you for your great political analysis.
Nice to see you back James it looks absolutely beautiful in Cyprus but I still think the Florida palms are among the best.
No doubt. But they do have a lot of rather splendid palm trees here. And does Florida have the historical monuments to go with the vegetation? :-)
A couple of points spring to mind. First, whether there is still a desire among the Greek population for enosis or whether having lived the past decades in their own state has lessened that desire (a potential, though imperfect, analogy with Moldova/Romania might perhaps be drawn).
Secondly, with the points made about Ankara's growing control over the north, and the potential to see this as part of a wider move to bring all of the 'Turkish nation' into a single state; whether this has any impact on Azerbaijan gives its close cultural/ethnic ties to Turkey.
No, there is not a desire for Enosis, apart very few people. The majority wants to keep the Republic of Cyprus
I've heard the UN Campaign medal for Cyprus Peacekeeping being termed unofficially 'the water-skiing medal'.
I am going soon to move to Cyprus and this video was exceptionally informative.
Well
You should know that the north part of the island ,is occupied by Turkey since 1974..!
MILITARY OCCUPIED AREA..!
The majority of all those are still our stole lands and properties..!
PLEASE
We expect from you people to RESPECT that..
@@vasosglykeriou8738 I am sorry regarding that. I've watched some documentaries about that period. Johnny Harris series for example, although their truth might be discussed in some aspects. I really hope Cypriots will be able soon to enjoy all their territories as their grandparents used to.
In case of solution (either with reunion or with de jure two states), do you think that British military presence in the island should continue?
The British forces in Cyprus are more acknowledged as a colonial presence than even the Turkish people.
The Greeks can ask them to leave at any time as Malta did. The island being divided is the only reason the British are still there
Prof James!
You make me want to ditch medicine for international relations 😂
God bless for all you do!
I love this video on location!
Thank you James; I enjoy your videos. The content is well researched and presented.
It is somewhat weird and annoying to me that when people talk over solutions to these sorts of conflicts between different ethnic and religious groups in some places like Cyprus, and Bosnia Herzegovina people really seem to focus in on solutions that would keep the whole country at least somewhat intact as a single entity, while in other cases such as Israel-Palestine, Serbia-Kosovo, Ireland-Northern Ireland, people tend to agree that separation is the good option and then proceed to disregard other solutions as well. I just don't know whether the correct solution for Cyprus is a single state, maybe separation and relativly peaceful life side by side with potential for increased cooperation and improved relations over time is the good solution here. I don't know why the international community seems to almost always get set on a certain idea of how peace and resolution to a certain conflict should look like and then try to ram that through even when after many years it really doesn't seem like the proposed resolution is in accordance with the wishes of the local population (as you said there is no political will for the solution).
What are your views on Ukraine? I mean at least there the Russians were already the majority in Eastern Ukraine and Crimea before Russia's invasion, while in the case of Cyprus the Turks ethnically cleansed the native population from occupied Cyprus and replaced them with their own Settlers from Turkey.
@@thcyprus what's interesting to me is when Ukraine says we'll take back crimea by force and it's over 90% Russian the western countries tap them on the shoulder and say good job but if Serbia said the same thing regarding kosovo they would automatically be threatened with force again both sovereign countries but different rules.
This is probably one of the main reason why Serbia is making such a big fuss about Kosovo. Since the fall of Yugoslavia, everyone had a right for self-determination, except the Serbs. Republics declared independence, leaving 30% of Serb population in both Montenegro and Bosnia and 20% in Croatia (before the ethnic cleansing). When the Serbs tried to achieve the same rights in those republics they were called imperialists and declared as enemies by the west, which literally supported every single separatism in Yugoslavia, except the Serb ones. It ended with Kosovo, which wasn't even a republic and NATO intervention. Today, the west doesn't even allow the small 10% of Kosovo in the north where Serbs are the majority to stay in Serbia, denying them again the same rights they gave to everyone else. Not to mention that the same situation in Ukraine, Cyprus, Azerbaijan, Palestine has a total opposite view point in the west. This creates a huge feeling of miss-treatment by the west in Serbia, which is why the population here is so much pro-russian, as it sees Russia as someone who is able to act against such politics of the west, not really getting into what Russia is exactly doing.
it's hypocricy. It's clear that north and south will never live peacefully in one-state solution. Status quo is 10 times better than any one-state solution that Greeks and the west will force on the north. Everybody knows what will happen when nationalists take over.
@@S.Solmazturk Oh so this is hypocricy? I mean I do agree. But if Turks support these separatist movements, they should also give the same rights to the Kurds and Armenians in Karabakh. It seems you are hypocrites too.
What would be the general reaction if Turkey were to annex the north? I can guess that any and all further EU membership talks would be fully over and there would be some sanctions, but would it affect Turkey's NATO membership? Also, aside from sanctions and denouncements, could there be any further action?
Cyprus is not a member state of NATO partly in protest for the occupation in north..
I guess it will play out on how effective the west will be in Ukraine
There would be some sanctions but nothing beyond that. The world didn't act when Turkey invaded and occupied Northern Cyprus because the US felt Turkey was too important in the fight against the Soviet Union and didn't want to upset them too much. We are entering a similar situation where the US and NATO will increasingly turn a blind eye to Turkey's actions. The EU is a joke in standing up against Turkey and several European countries have more important economic ties with Turkey than Cyprus. However, if they were to launch an invasion against the rest of Cyprus, then you can expect a much different reaction.
@@markdowding5737 Turkey had legal grounds for invading, she was acting under her guarantor status. However, there would be no grounds for annexing and incorporating undisputed land into herself. Turkey has no claim over any part of Cyprus, so the annexation would be illegal, unlike the invasion. With that being said, I think I agree that it wouldn't go beyond some further sanctions.
@@Aorda I think it was Prof James (please correct me if I am wrong) that said in another video that while the first wave of the invasion was not illegal, the second one where they pushed south and established the northern Cypriot administration is generally considered illegal. They had no grounds to recognize Northern Cyprus and despite being told not to do so they still did it. What makes you think annexing the northern part would be any different? They don't even recognize the Republic of Cyprus as a country anyway. I am not saying that it's going to happen, just that it is a possibility that should not be disregarded. Another factor you are not considering is demographics. Ever since the partition, Turkey has sent thousands of settlers from mainland Turkey to Northern Cyprus. These people tend to be more conservative and align more closely with Turkey. Some studies estimate that settlers and their descendants represent about 50% of the North demographics. Their number is probably going to keep increasing and it's not out of the question that they might eventually ask for unification
@@Aorda The whole point of the invasion was for the protection of the Turkish Cypriots, there's not a lot of a gain in Turkey annexing the North, especially if it's just going to involve a plea of sanctions with not much of a gain but nonetheless that's as far as it would go realistically speaking. Many Turkish Cypriots already support a peaceful resolution and even the more conservative ones only pledge themselves to the North as a separate republic so I think it's overexaggerated in the media that Turkey would ever launch an offensive on the South or go beyond what is the current state, even more so the country's in NATO and in close collaboration with the West and its blocks such as the EU, not to mention already experiencing difficulties with everything going on right now. Honestly I think with a change in the mindset amongst the generation, the island will work for the better but don't expect anything in the short-term.
as a turk thank you very much for being objective and not taking sides like many western or eastern media. great contetns! i hope to see more.
Realistically speaking, I don't see any viable option other than a two-state solution for the future.
James can I ask a question as someone told me something and i have tried to research it but have come up with a blank....During the last attempt at a settlement did Turkey in simple terms offer to remove Army and Guarantor status and ask for a % share of any offshore revenue?
Very interesting, thank you for this video.
I have a question however, why "solving" the question only revolve some form of unification? Isn't the recognition of two distinct sovereign states one of the possible and realistic solution, since now both side are quite homogenous in their respective ethnicity?
Doesn't seem feasible for now when Northern Cyprus has failed to get any recognition.
Imagine if "TRNC" would be recognized by the international community, what would the effects be for russian-occupied Ukraine, naming one case
Indeed, I wonder the same thing. It's been almost 50 years; half of the population has never known anything but the current borders, and almost 90% were 15 or younger at the time. I wouldn't have seriously entertained independence over compromise and unity back then, but at this point it's simply too entrenched. Methinks it's no different than Taiwan: societal values and de facto independence forged a new identity in its people over time. As an outsider with no emotional connections to it, I think unification would probably ultimately be the best for them, but it's their choice and mutual agreement to independence is just as valid of an option. Fwiw, it doesn't even necessarily have to be retroactive to the original proclamation or validate prior political events.
@@FarnhamJ07 There are no settlers in Taiwan, in occupied Cyprus, 50% of the population are settlers from mainland Turkey. Recognition of the so-called TRNC" would mean recognition of ethnic cleansing
@@VladTevez While not exactly settlers, there were over a million mainland Chinese people that moved to Taiwan after the civil war
Seems the problem was solved by dividing the island. No explanation is given why reunifying Cyprus is a good thing. Prof Ker-Lindsey even says the two communities don’t want to live together.
Turks resent being a minority.
Practically, it isn't. However imperial work to must continue to justify the pay check. They must fight the reality of history and demographic changes. They must try to grab all of Cyprus as an EU enclave and politically and culturally separate the Cypriot Turks from the mainland.
This. There is no war or ethnic conflict since the island was divided based on ethnic lines. People who says the island must be united never provides any insights as to why it would be a good thing
@@invoker7826 Division is forcefully and artificially created by Turkey, and now according to you, it is a "good thing"?
Turkish Cypriots are in the north, and non-Turkish Cypriots are in the south. It shows the Turkish Cypriots, now joined by Turkish settlers, cannot stand non-Turks in their midst.
@@tombuddy100 Has the fighting ended? Yes. That means there is peace now thanks to the partition which means partition was necessary
Thank you prof. for a very good explanation of this situation. I remember first time I went to Larnaca bay and Nicosia 1988, and the feeling at the DMZ/border was very sad, and harsch. I think its a bit more relaxed today, but still sad people can't agree over just a land border.
Thanks. It really is incredibly sad that the situation has not been resolved. You’re right that the crossing is now a lot more relaxed now. But unfortunately the division still exists.
Mr James Ker-Lindsay thank you for making this video. It is important that we get unbiased information about the Cyprus problem and you have done a wonderful job talking about it in this video.
Thank you very much George. I really appreciate it.
Very well considered summary of the current status. The Greeks in the south have largely done very well for themselves since 74 and enjoy the freedoms of a modern, European coastal paradise with like minded Greek speakers. The thought of risking their current way of life, for what would be a complete unknown is scary and would be a huge gamble, with seemingly little to gain. At the same time, we don't want Turkey to get away with stealing 40% of our land. I think a compromise could be reached with at minimum, the return of another 20% of the land mass, at the very least to return Varosha.
Thank you Stelios. I really do understand the concerns that many Greek Cypriots have and I do think that many Turkish Cypriots don’t appreciate the worries GCs have about creating a new politically deadlocked state. But I also think that the GC political leaders have consistently failed to be honest with people about what a BBF means. My own sense is that a loose federation would make most sense now. (Unfortunately, many GCs think that a loose federation is a weak one and the TCs could break away easily. This really isn’t the case.) But there will certainly have to be territorial adjustments and Varosha would certainly have to be included. For many reasons, Morphou is now trickier. But, as I said, with the right political will on both sides, as well as in Ankara, this could be resolved, and resolved quickly.
I have news for you, the Turkish Cypriots are legally recognised co owners of Cyprus. Greek Cypriots have never in their history 'owned' / 'controlled' Cyprus, they never have and never will. It is nonsense talk from people like you that got Cyprus into this mess in the first place!!
@@thetraveller1612 I think you are a little confused 🤔🤔🤔. Which part of Cyprus do the Turkish Cypriots currently control? Because all see is Turkey 🇹🇷 you have less rights now than you did under Makarios. 2nd class, internationally unrecognized citizens, in your own lands.
@@stelvis1984ify "At the same time, we don't want Turkey to get away with stealing 40% of our land. I think a compromise could be reached with at minimum, the return of another 20% of the land mass"
But if you look at this proposal from the Turkish Cypriot perspective, does it seem like a reasonable compromise? I don't claim to be super familiar with this issue but this would sound like that the North would give up a significant part of the land that it has without getting much in return. What would happen to the Turkish Cypriots in the parts that would be returned? Would they have to leave their homes? Or would they suddenly become a small ethnic minority in another country which might be a scary prospect? Neither seems like a good option.
"at the very least to return Varosha"
Maybe just returning that might be easier since almost no one seems to live there.
@@seneca983 It's very difficult with the amount of time and years that have passed, I understand people carry on and have built themselves new lives and new generations, in homes that they never payed for, that have title deeds in other peoples names, on the other side of the island.
Varosho is the easiest as it was heavily Greek Cypriot inhabitants, and has been a ghost town ever since 74.
I agree, if a compromise could be reached, the Turkish Cypriots have very little to gain, other than international recognition, EU membership, the ability to trade their goods directly with the rest of the world. But this is all a pipe dream, Greek Cypriots can negotiate for themselves, the Turkish Cypriots can decide nothing for themselves, everything has to pass approvals of Turkey, and Erdogan isn't the sort to make any concessions, he's still exploring and drilling the sea around Cyprus, looking for natural gas. No way Greek Cypriots would ever entertain any deal with that guy in charge.
Another 20 years and I would say almost everybody old enough to remember the war, or life on the other side of the island will likely be dead. With that in mind, you can't miss what you've never had, so people will probably be happy to carry on as things are.
To me, this really is emblematic of the failure of a liberal international policy (in the IR academic sense) and the somewhat naive hope that a power sharing agreement could ever be anything but temporary. In terms of the de facto situation, Turkey has performed an act of imperialism so there must be a solution that addresses this.
Spot on
Thank you. I have been trying to find for years a name for that kind of naive diplomatic point of view on geopolitics. Liberal international policy sums it up perfectly.
@@heinricusblasius7917 just to be absolutely clear, liberalism in international relations is a completely separate theory to others which are called liberal. It’s one of the main IR theories so I highly suggest you take a moment to read up (just in case this is new to you)
@@tomithy-6253 thanks for the heads up. I'll make sure to dig deeper.
I'd have to disagree. Even though the violence pre Turkish intervention is glossed over, the truth is mass murder of Turkish Cypriots was happening on the island, and that terrorist organisation carried out a coup and took over the island, before Turkey stepped in as a guarantor power to save Turkish Cypriots. There hasn't been any bloodshed since.
Another fantastic video!
Now I thought that in the last decade the two populations had started travelling between the two zones more freely and the border had been demilatarised?
Thanks so much. Yes, the situation is much better. But there are still points of friction and occasional serious flare ups of tension. And a final agreement is still needed.
The video is posted after a long break. Anxiously waiting for new one. Please upload some videos related to SOUTH EAST ASIA.
An unbiased review on a complex matter. Very well done Professor James Ker-Lindsay! I think at this point some baby steps could be done in order to bring both communities closer and to make them feel more comfortable to share the same island :) Eg. Music festivals, sport events, scholarships for studies in English, philanthropic efforts etc. I am a Greek that I have lived a lot abroad btw. Atm, I am in Cyprus :)
Thanks so much Matt. Great points. I think there is a growing sense that going for a big settlement may not be possible now. There does seem to be a view that more contacts between people and organisations might have to be the way things go. This has been neglected for most of the history of the issue. Either way, it’s important to do this as it paves the way fur a potential settlement and if a solution isn’t possible then at least it keeps the two communities in sone sort of contact with each other in the hope that one day something can be sorted out.
Love the quiet reflective shots of Nicosia with the cicadas chirping in the background. Beautiful island on which I've visited both sides, I support a settlement and however happy the status quo feels for some, reunification would improve the quality of life for all residents under a democratic and shared system, with the city state of Nicosia at it's helm (as it has long been).
Not sure how I missed the huge issue in Cyprus
I watched the video with interest and I thank you for the impartial reporting. I would like to ask why you haven’t addressed the present day british military presence on the island. Do you believe the sovereign base areas are still necessary on the island of Cyprus? As a Greek Cypriot I feel frustrated that the base areas represent such a large area of the island. My final question is regards to the rent for the sovereign base areas that should be paid to the Cypriot republic, is it being paid? And if so to who?
Thanks a lot Georgios. The Bases are a very interesting topic. I didn’t cover them as this meant to discuss settlement and opening up this topic wild have confused things - especially for those who might not know a lot about Cyprus. That said, it obviously ties in with any deal. As you may know, there is a long-standing offer to hand over around 50% of the SBAs if an agreement is reached. It therefore becomes an extra incentive to reach a deal. In the meantime, while they are relatively large, most of them are effectively in Greek Cypriot hands. Much if it is farmland and the inhabitants are citizens of the Republic. As for the rent issue, I have often heard about this, but I have never seen anything to prove that rent is payable. It seems to be a myth. But one that is widely believed. I hope this all helps.
An interesting take on the situation, but I do feel that the weakness of the EU in the matter is ignored. As I recall, I may be mistaken, but the EU told the Greek Cypriots that rejection of the last agreement would result in Cyprus being denied EU membership. However, once the Greeks voted down the agreement the EU caved and let the Cypriots in. This removed a major carrot for Greek Cypriots to compromise. I can't help but feel that the EU should not have caved until the Greek Cypriots had been given a few years to reconsider their position.
As an aside, the EU's failure to hold its line on this matter may well have been noticed by other states and contributed to the perception that the EU is weak, a paper tiger unable to follow through on threats made and incentives offered.
Greece was blackmailing the EU, threatening to stop EU enlargement (Bulgaria, Romania et Al) if the Greek Cypriots were not admitted. From this point onwards the EUs credibility in the eyes of the Turkish Cypriots evaporated as many Turks / Turkish Cypriots saw the EU as nothing but a racist Christian union they renaged against the promises of trade given to the Turkish Cypriots. Do you blame them?
I hate to inform you that you are mistaken!!!
Greece is fully Europe, Turkey is a problematic gray man, Europe needs to start supporting Western civilization instead of coddling nefarious outsiders. Turkey can be a partner, but if it acts like a sneaky brat, then it should be treated as such.
@@assertivekarma1909 Some nationalistic Greek going mad because of the failed Anatolia campaign colorised:
As a Greek Cypriot I don't believe that it can be solved because actually the majority of Greek Cypriots earned from the property loss of the one third of the population who lost their properties in 1974... Many chances for solution on behalf of the Greek Cypriots were wasted because of the fear that some of the refugees will get their properties back and therefore land / housing properties would drop, affecting tourist facility owners as well... As a refugee child, I had to make a loan and buy a house from a land development company of the south which is the majority of the cases of refugees' children and grandchildren, so they ( Greek Cypriots whose properties were not affected in 1974) still have a lot to earn from partition... That's why I can see no solution ahead.. Many pretending to be super patriots, rejecting any form of solution are actually serving their own economic interests...
cheers to Hellas and Cyprus from Türkiye. Intelectuals and thinkers are weak. they are unable to produce alternative solutions that would not do harm to all parts but also create benefits for them.
Son..!
Do you even ..read of what you wrote here..?
@@vasosglykeriou8738 im sure he does. he sounds as a very sincere universal human to me.
@@vasosglykeriou8738 Are you one of those benefited of the South? Did you work to buy that ford raptor by yourself? You are jut one of the many benefited from partition.. Therefore you don't have the wright to express any opinion on what I've been through...
@@nikos8247
Brow..!
You past the jock.!.
Are you a teenager..?
..did you ever bothered about your countrys problem..?
..are you well informed..?
. Das , your neighbor already have a better car..than yours..?
Anyway ..
You really show the level of our sosydy..?
You are certainly the authority when it comes to Cyprus so I am always very interested in hearing any content you produce on the subject (about to go watch your Cyprus Q&A right after this), even better on location! Based on what you’ve laid out it does seem unlikely that there will be a settlement.
I’m so glad to see the overwhelmingly positive response! Thanks for making this video and I hope your trip went well, Cyprus is such a beautiful and historic place!
Thanks as ever LocalLt. It’s been really great to be back. And it’s never easy to talk about these issues in a way that finds a balance. But I hope I managed. It’s has been nice to see the positive responses. It’s just a shame that a settlement seems so very far off.
It was really neat that you added a video tour interlude of the town of Varosha at 6:04 Professor Ker-Lindsay. I got to admit you had me caught off guard there with that interlude.
Also, I had the chance to meet and chat with a Turkish Cypriot a few weeks ago here in Toronto who recently immigrated to Canada. Given that it was my first time meeting someone from Cyprus, it was a unique experience to meet someone from that part of the world. Anyways I hope I get the opportunity to visit Cyprus someday, preferably a Cyprus where both Greek and Turkish Cypriots live together in peace and harmony.
Thanks so much Robert. I was really trying to think what to do with the interlude. I usually like to put something a bit different in. In Armenia and Bosnia it was music. But here I just felt the silence was more appropriate. (But of course it was far from silent. Those cicadas are almost deafening! 🙂) Cyprus really is a wonderful place. So interesting in so many ways. It really is well worth a visit if you ever get the opportunity.
The Annan plan was to create two federal zones, a Turkish Cypriot and a Republic zone (note Republic not Greek) Turkish Cypriots would be free to live,work,buy property in the R zone while Greek Cypriots would not be allowed to fully enjoy these freedoms in the TC zone. Quotas were to be set on GCs buying property and even giving birth in the TC zone. Limits on migration from the motherlands only lasted a few years, with Turkey’s 80 million only a boat ride away. Removal of Turkish troops was to take up to a decade and depended on Turkey’s satisfaction that all was well, and no country wanted to guarantee the plan.
The Greek Cypriots rejected the plan because of fear. You can’t blame them protecting what they have left instead of becoming another Lebanon where over the last century the indigenous Christians have become the minority
Good point.
It sounds like a stupid, messy overcomplicated plan with numerous points of potential failure. Typical of irrational liberal mindset.
Obviously you have no idea about the plan.
@@kapudanuderya Im upvoting you on the assumption of you being ironic!
There has been no violence since the troops of turkish and UN have been at the border. Would you not think it would be the turkish cypriots who would be in fear if the troops would leave especially with the other countries no longer being guarantors? How can there be no guarantee of events committed by eoka b from happening again?
@@sparksnvolts6855 there is no independent country with another country's army inside acting as a threat tool at any time, forget it.
It should be solved eventually, either by changing circumstances or changing mentalities, or by perhaps thinking outside the box and creating new and creative arrangements that can take into consideration amd fulfill the needs and requirements of all communities. A possible agreement would be to just formalize the separation of the two states.
My friend, this type of conflicts are only resolved through military operations.
@@emiliosnic but why go down that road when it's not needed. All Cypriots will lose if there's war. Just keep the stalemate forever and make non-issue of it. Everyone will be fine
Hi James - what is your opinion on the Treaties of Guarantee? The GC's claim that there is no need for them in a future settlement. But do the recent events in Ukraine give credibility to guarantees in a potential future agreement?
Speaking of the Latins, could there be a Romance language in Cyprus?
I think ,NO ! but I assure you, we can all eat ...spaghetti..!
@@andrigeogiou8420 Agreed.
The Greek and Turkish Cypriots seem to seriously mistrust each other and the functionality of a reunited Cyprus seems questionable. Why not aim for two Independent states that may stepwise increasingly cooperate with each other. Maybe on the long run for the Turkish Cypriots a customs union with the EU and an inclusion to Schengen area may be possible. This solition may be advantageous for both sides.
No, that would be advantageous only to the Turkish side, because it is exactly what they want, i.e. legalizing the partition of Cyprus.
Just partition the island between Greece and Turkey
End of story
The thing is, a lot of Turkish Cypriots I've spoken to support reunification and/or a peaceful solution, nonetheless realistically it really should be two federal states like BIH because right now that is the most realistic solution, whether the two sides like it or not. If it's so much of an arse then just give Greece the south and Turkey the north.
In my humble opinion both communities have so much more in common than what divides them.
Unfortunately, again, it’s RELIGION!
Take this from an Irishman who has observed the developments in Northern Ireland!
‘Old hat’ has no place any more!
Thanks, James! Great video 🙏
"Unfortunately, again, it’s RELIGION!" - And ethnicity. And language. The divides in Ireland/Britain look trivial by comparison.
What's in common doesn't matter when it comes to interests and security. I like to eat kebab, but that doesn't mean I want to be ruled by Turks. And I'm sure there's a few Turks who like souvlaki, but they don't want to be ruled by Greeks.
Simple as that
Well ,
By my opinion the KEY word about the CYPRUS issue is.
RESPECT..!
WE ALL CYPRIOTS have to respect each other's rights..!
The Republic of CYPRUS , our common state .. enters EEU mainly for guarantee of all it's citizens human rights..!
Greeks , Turks , Armenians , Latins, Maronites.. British..etc..!
.. above all , our compatriots Turkish Cypriots have to realize that they are only a minority of 18% , . deal with it. !
The nation of Turkey should of RESPECT that. and finally let us CYPRIOTS to live happy on our island..!
TODAY..
for those they don't know..
One out of the six members of CYPRUS in the European parliament IS a Turkish Cypriot , been elected mainly by the votes of the Greek Cypriots. !
about ..
120.000 of our compatriots Turkish Cypriots are owners of the CYPRUS Republic..IDs..!
..&
80.000 of our compatriots Turkish Cypriots are owners of the CYPRUS Republic Passports..
.. RESPECT..!
The island is not divided, there are 2 distinct states.
Since I visited Ireland in 1973, I heard then that there’d never be peace there. So if the forces of peace can move the status quo off of blind opposition to one another then surely there’ a carrot of some project which can be offered that would start to turn the situation upside down….fly in a group of idealistic young people from the outside who can get the natives seeing each other’s hearts with new eyes.
Its different, cyprus had comprehensive ethnic division. The communities are completely seperate for the most part. And turkey has continued to settle the north, so the demographics are no longer enticing for the greeks.
Is it really a problem that Cyprus isn’t unified? The biggest goal is to avoid violence. If a stable status quo has been reached, why can’t this situation simply remain as it is?
You'll have the answer to your question when the day comes when your country is divided by force. Until then, you won't understand why.
@@saas-lk2oe I love how you try to imply Turkey intervened in Cyprus for fun or for no specific reason.
@@atakanpayman Turkey invaded because that's what suited their interest nothing more.
@@ClydeShadow6 You invited Turkey yourself by your genocidal shenanigans.
@@BulanGoldstein Wow I did that? I must be really special to have the ability to do that. 😄
Awhile back I saw some footage from the 2011 Turkish Cyprus protests that showed Turkish Cypriots carrying the (legitimate) Cyprus flag and cutting up their Turkish Cyprus ID cards. This shocked me and from what I could glean the protesters felt they were being marginalized by mainland rural Turkish settlers and that inviting Turkey was a mistake. I wonder if during that time this was a widespread view among Turkish Cypriots or just a fluke of extreme-minority protesters because people in that video were saying in Turkish "I am a Cypriot, not Turkish!"
Fundamentally that time has past, as the population in the north is becoming majority mainland turk.
interesting observation - apparently they have become minority in their own country
Here is the video of the aforementioned protests with the timestamp of what I was talking about: czcams.com/video/5MUpNgv921k/video.html
I’m one of those people you’ve seen in the video. Those were the times where justice and development party (akp) leader Erdoğan insult Cypriot Turks by saying they aren’t Turk at all so we simply said yes if you’re Turk we are Cypriot. And yes, we are becoming more and more minorty everyday because of the large number of immigrants from Turkey
That's true most Turkish Cypriots don't identifiy as Turkish.
I'm visiting Greece for summer vacation for 5 days. After 5 days we will leave Cyprus. I heard that Greece is having lots of tourist destinations in Cyprus. 🤔
I was 10 years old in 1974 and remember the Cyprus conflict being in the news, is there not the possibility of instead of trying to go for full unification instead having trial periods of border opening (initially stringent but if successful relaxation of conditions follows) monitored by UN for transparency, at the end of each trial period the UN and the 2 parties sit down and decide what to do next, if it works great, if it doesn't, those that experienced the war may find it hard for reintegration, but those who know only of the war may have different sentiments especially if freedom of movement improves their lives.
Dear Mr Hill, its not only about freedom of movement, one of the 3 essential human rights. For politicians on both sides is about power sharing (no agreement), for the people on the ground its the question of property & security (politicians over the years accepted/agreed unlawful solutions to either matter which will not be tolerated over time). In addition, lets also add the dilution of the population in the Northern occupied part by 100% pure Turkish illegal settlers that has begun since 1974…It is clear that Ever since TR wanted/wants to force a partition of the island, not a solution accepted by the majority of the island…
Thank you for yet another interesting video. I agree that the conflict seems solvable on paper. But as you have mentioned there's no political will on either side. So maybe the status quo is working since both communities currently enjoy peace. So, just maybe, the partition based on the facts on the ground, is preferable?
Well
The nation of Turkey played dirty games against our common state since 1958..!! Through our compatriot's Turkish Cypriots..!
A minority of 18% , been found with ," overnights "..with the establishment of our common state , The Republic of CYPRUS at early 69s , ..yet , they blew them UP following instructions from Turkey..!
They actually took the arms against their own state..!
from 1963-67..!
Overnights , like they were 30%-40% of the islands population ,with their participation on the states rulings and functions..!
FCC or proof PLEASE search about..
", Rauf Denktash shocking confession "..!
&
" Dervis Ali Kavazoglu kendi sensiden "..!
Would annexation change the situation that much? You said before that Russian annexation of South Ossetia or Russian annexation of Southern Ukraine or Donbas would not matter so much. If occupation is illegal, than annexation is also illegal.
Thanks Eugene. As is so often the case, context is everything. In the case of Ukraine, formal annexation would be a grave step, but it would only cement an illegal invasion and occupation. We all know that Ukraine is land grab. Russia has never hidden this. It is appalling. But annexation is just the next illegality in a line of illegal actions. Cyprus is slightly different. Turkey has not formally claimed Cyprus in the past. In fact it officially relinquished its claim in 1925. More to the point, there has been a formal UN peace process aimed at reunification for many decades and there are Security Council resolutions insisting that a settlement must be based on reunification. And Turkey is still a guarantor of the Republic - a treaty that gave it the right to intervene. If Turkey annexes northern Cyprus, it marks a very different step in international relations. It is not a P5 power ignoring international law. It is a second or third order international power simply saying that it will no longer abide by the rules of the system. This will open the way for others to follow.
@@JamesKerLindsay Thank you for the explanation. For me, Turkey and Russia are countries of the same level, although nuclear weapons, of course, still play their role, unfortunately.
@@eugenegvozdetsky2673 If Turkey and Russia is on the same level for you then your "level" is very low.
@@Onattttt You might be in denial about this, but they are quite similar.
Brilliant 👏
Thank you so much!
The Good Friday Agreement proves it is possible but very hard to find..
It's different. Both of them in Northern Ireland are Christians. Although Catholic and Protestant. But in Cyprus, Orthodox and Muslims. Ones are can eat pork. But another aren't. Remember Turks vs Greeks since 1071.
One of the best presented Vids on how Cyprus came to be, how it currently is & the aspirations of its people. The high quality of research and deep understanding is most evident throughout; thank you Professor for visiting Cyprus and making & gracefully presenting probably the best described video on the most recent & troubled history of Cyprus over the last 70 years.
Thank you so much Philippos. I am just really enjoying being back in the island. I had missed it enormously.
@@JamesKerLindsay Your are most welcome each and every time Sir!!
I can't remember if I mentioned this in your previous Cyprus video? But TRT World did an interview with Ersin Tatar, and what he thought about the situation. He was thinking along the same lines as you regarding reunification, but he's saying that he thinks too much water has flowed under the bridge, to find a settlement. He thinks that the International Community should just recognise North Cyprus as a new country.
Thanks so much. Yes, I remember the interview. The trouble is that Tatar represents a strand of Turkish Cypriot opinion that either doesn’t want a settlement or is simply unwilling to make the genuine concessions needed to bring one about. I don’t think he is as intransigent as many others. The trouble is that he surrounded by many of the most intransigent figures in TC politics. Many of those closest to him are relics of the old days of Rauf Denktash, the legendarily hardline TC leader.
An idea would be for the British to pay rent for the bases they use on the island. This can be split between the two communities and we can move forward from that normal point.
Thanks Andrew. I’d make several points. First, the idea that Britain should be paying rent has been going round for decades. No one seems to know how it took hold. But this isn’t the case. They are sovereign territory, not leased. (This is just stating a fact, rather than taking a position.) Secondly, I think the Cypriot government would be rather concerned about this idea. A key element of the strategy for reunification has been to keep the Turkish Cypriots isolated. This would give them an economic lifeline.
thank you very much for that informative, engaging video. the eerie silence in the deserted buffer zone (barring the cicadas) is unsettling. I believe the same could be said about the Israeli - Palestinian conflict. all the maps are drawn, all the disagreements solved. now the Palestinian leaders have to tell their folks that there will be no refugees going back to Israel and the Israeli leaders must tell their folks that most settlements would be dismembered (is that the correct word? I wish I was a native english speaker...) and both sides have to relinquish the idea of having the entirety of Jerusalem. the absence of political will is the reason this conflict will never end. same as with the cypriots, hard liners call the shots, whereas moderates are no longer motivated to find a common ground. maybe both need to descend into bloody all out war to make the incentive (i.e. getting to stay alive and not die in a war) clearer - like the war in 1973 brought about the peace agreement between Egypt and Israel.
Thank you so much Rafi. (And your English is great!) There are indeed a lot of interesting parallels. And you are absolutely right. Often in conflicts it is about having the political leaders who can tell their people the honest truth. But thus is so rare. Usually, they will just tell people what they want to hear and let the next leader desk with the consequences. Truly tragic, in so many cases.
I wouldn't be surprised if Erdogan formally incorporated North Cyprus into Turkey.
This would put the EU and other Western countries in a bind. They need Turkish support in NATO. And the EU doesn't want to alienate Turkey completely from EU membership.
Thanks. This is the big fear that many of us have. Erdogan is rather erratic. He could just get up one morning and decide to do it. I think that the chances of this happening have declined recently due to Ukraine. (It is not a good look to annexe another country’s territory just now.) But I could certainly see it happening. And it would have a disastrous impact in all sorts of ways. The EU would have to respond in very strong terms. I suspect Washington would have to as well.
Turkey already knows by this point that EU membership is a pipe dream. The whole point of and "independent" Northern Cyprus is plausible deniability while being able to claim offshore gas deposits.
There is no more killing going on thanks to the split. The Greek Cypriots of made it clear that they don’t want to reunite with the Turkish Cypriots. I think the island need keep separated . Two independent states is the solution
This is the fear of Turkey!!!
The only way this could be properly resolved as a one Cyprus is to share ownership not with a division between them but has a 50/50 split of finance with no other division both owning Cyprus.
NEVER EVER be solved, the Greek side doesn't want it and the Turkish side is intransigent.
The Greek side, still to this day in their schools teach OXI.
This guy can’t just take a Cyprus vacation
books.google.com.cy/books/about/The_Cyprus_Problem.html?id=xTL382g5sWwC&redir_esc=y
If I wanted a completely switch off, sit back and relax holiday I would really go somewhere else. :-)
Cyprus reunification is a lost cause. With the abject failure of Bosnia and Herzegovina experience, the Greek Cypriots have little to gain, and, much to lose with a reunification process which may fail 10 or 20 years later. And, let us get real for a moment: the Greek Orthodox Cypriots do not want any part of their lives controlled by Muslims.
Maintaining the current status quo appears to be the best practical compromise. 🇨🇾
"The Greek Orthodox Cypriots do not want any part of their lives controlled by Muslims." you wrote. Most probably the other way around is also correct.
@@1961meka This is true.
But, the far overwhelming international sentiment will always side with the Greek Cypriots. So, in a sense, the Turks did not achieve anywhere near as much as they originally intended. Northern Cyprus being an international pariah is pointless.
And this has a far more reaching implication that, with the Cyprus issue unresolved, Turkey has no right to be part of the European Union. 🇨🇾 🇪🇺
@@user-kc1tf7zm3bS Did the Greek Cypriots achieve what they have always wanted, namely Enosis? It is a lose - lose situation, I am afraid.
@@1961meka Enosis was never feasible with a sizeable ethnic Turk Cypriot population at the time in the 1970s. The 1974 Cypriot coup d'état was an own goal by the Greek Cypriots.
The only obvious way to resolve the Cyprus matter is for Northern Cyprus to cede territory, which as a proportion, approximates the 78% Greek Cypriot and 18% Turkish Cypriot ethnic split which existed at the time of the 1960 Cyprus independence from the British.
If Northern Cyprus and Turkey wish to bring the matter to a definitive resolution once and for all, the northerners will have to make more concessions than those to the south. Again, the overwhelming worldwide sentiment, no matter how simplistic, will always side with the Greek Cypriots.
Issue with this way of thinking is that status quo, while usually great will never last forever.
Why is a unitary state the only solution? The division should be recognised by the international community and co-operation between both entities. .
and what makes you think that way..?
.... Do you have a villa in the occupied areas..?
@Hdhs Ucuucx ...
The majority of all those to in the north occupied part .. are still our stole lands and properties..!
PLEASE
we expect from you people to RESPECT that..!
@Hdhs Ucuucx
.. So , you live there , enjoying the safety and secure been given from the glorious Turkeys army..!
Right ..!
..The killer of the late Swedish priminister Ulaf Palmer died there only last year , ..! He was also enjoying those good's ..!
I tell you what..
IF ,the world , AND the hypocrites of EUROPE except Russian to hold Ukraine lands ..then I will say ..!
We are finished..!
.. even if I read that ..
Henry Kissinger .. said that Ukraine should except to lose s part of it's homeland..!( Crimea and more..)
my grandad was in the war and can remember turks shooting up the village he lived in so he moved to the uk and is now only starting to stay on the greek side
Correction: the first peoples to inhabit Cyprus was not the Greeks, rather a people that spoke a language today referred to as Eteo-Cypriot. It is also worth mentioning that anong the early inhabitants included the Phoenicians. Eventually, both peoples would be linguistically Hellenised with arrival of the Myceneaens.
Thanks. You are absolutely right. That’s why I purposefully didn’t say that they were the first settlers. I was merely making the point that the first Greeks to arrive on the island were at the time of the Bronze Age.
How ludicrous it is to link Hellenised populations of antiquity with the concocted polity called Greece by the imperialists of 19th century.
@@JamesKerLindsay Why are you using the incredibly ambiguous “Greeks” and not making a distinction between the modern Greeks, Greek Cypriots and any previous people on the island?
I’m asking this in part because you seem to like making a distinction between the Turkish Cypriots and Turks from Turkey. Why are you not affording the same discrimination of contemporary origins to the Greek Cypriots?
On that note: did you also know that historically sourced documents from British archives on the movement of people in and out of the island during its administration 1878 onwards, show that the overwhelming majority of the current Greek Cypriot population, upwards of no less than >90%, can trace their patrilineal or matrilineal heritage on the island back to the late 1800s at best?
It might also be worth mentioning here that many Turkish Cypriots can potentially trace their roots on the island back to the 11th-12th centuries, not just the Ottoman period.
Finally, about the current ratios, you say that data on population is not certain so everybody uses the percentages from the 1960 census. However, not factoring in their pre-1960s origins and other documented or undocumented persons among them, there are are roughly 650,000 Greek Cypriots and a further 50,000 Greek mainlanders. The equivalent for Turkish and Turkish Cypriots comes to roughly 300,000 - 500,000, which means the current Turkish / Greek ethnic heritage ratio is more like 2:1, almost 1:1, not 4:1. That is a very big difference.
Thank you for this video. Very informative.
As a mainland Turk, I'm much less optimistic than I ever was about a solution because neither side seems to want reunification.
Ersin Tatar's election as president of TRNC in 2020 was a big blow to the already-dim hope for a solution.
Tatar ran on and won on a platform of "two-state solution" (I.e., international recognition of TRNC). He's not going to get it, but it's hard to see how he or his successors can walk back from that position.
On the Greek Cypriot side, whatever the ideology of the presidential administration (be they center-right Klerides, weirdo Papadopoulos, ex-communist Christofias, or the current prez. Anastasiades), the ability to make tough compromises has been non-existent for decades.
Most recently, the Anastasiades administration had a willing partner in the form of then-TRNC president, Mustafa Akıncı, but they wasted their time.
Tatar won on a slim margin because of perceptions that Akıncı was useless.
Meanwhile, the language coming from both sides gets more acrimonious---relitigating 1974 rather than offer sensible ideas for the future.
In the case of Cyprus, it pays to be pessimistic. 😎
Thank you Barin. A painfully accurate summary. I wouldn’t disagree with a word of it! It is tragic that we are in this situation. But you’re right that both sides have killed off settlement hopes. Sadly, I think that Turkey, which at one point was genuinely in favour of a settlement, has now turned against it as well. All very bleak.
@@JamesKerLindsay Because after 48 years (since 1974) of meaningless negotiations, rejection of the referendum in 2004 and seeing that the EU would never accept Turkey as a member, we got bored. Now we need to talk about other options.
What an awesome video!! Thankd alot sir. I am new student of International relations and needed to know more about Cyprus and found this.
Thanks so much. I’m so glad it helped. Good luck with the studies!
Very interesting analysis. This has sort of helped me to mold two narratives that I've heard together.
I arrived back last week after spending 1 month in Cyprus.
I felt welcome in the North but completely unwelcome in the south. I'm not sure if this is to do with the political situation or the culture.
Very interesting journey never the less.
@@ihadtorebootintothematrix1152 Interesting that you experienced the same thing.