Framework 16: Best Laptop for Linux Users?
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- čas přidán 18. 06. 2024
- Explore the Linux performance on the Framework Laptop16! From gaming to everyday use, see how well different distros run on this cutting-edge laptop.
My Framework 16 Playlist - • Framework 16
Products Highlighted (Affiliate Links)
Silicon Power 4TB UD90 Gen4 M.2 SSD. - amzn.to/42MZlqE
SABRENT Rocket 2230 4.0 1TB SSD. - amzn.to/3Iaobao
Crucial RAM 32GB DDR5-5600 - amzn.to/3UPhq5x
Distros:
Linux Mint - linuxmint.com/download.php
PopOS! - pop.system76.com
Garuda Linux - garudalinux.org/downloads
ArcoLinux - www.arcolinux.info/downloads/
00:00 - Opener
00:17 - Intro / Agenda
01:12 - Who is this video for?
02:24 - It's "Linux Friendly"
04:05 - The Distros!
04:44 - What Workd Out-of-the-Box
05:41 - WiFi Still a Challange.
07:23 - Good Use of Scale?
08:15 - Can it Read my Digits?
09:17 - Setting the Power Stage.
09:51 - Performance Variations.
13:27 - Power Efficiency / Battery Life
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Patreon: / elevatedsystems
Twitter: / elevatedsystem1
Instagram: /
Threads: www.threads.net/@cj.elevated
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Audio file(s) provided by Epidemic Sound
www.epidemicsound.com - Věda a technologie
I appreciate your taking a look at Linux Mint
My pleasure!
Hey there, appreciate the Linux coverage. I own a Framework 16 with the GPU expansion and I can tell you with certainty that dynamic switching for the GPU is available in Linux. Switcheroo is what makes this possible.
For instance, Steam knows to run my games and itself with the dedicated GPU while my browsers and other applications that are lower intensity are ran with the integrated.
Just throwing this out there for your awareness.
This is on Bazzite OS which is a Fedora / ublue distribution that focuses on gaming and stability.
That just designates the render device. It's still operating in hybrid mode. Check your iGPU usage.
Apparently > switcheroo-control
Framework laptop aside, this was a great video comparing differences between popular distros being configured for laptop use. Cheers.
I need that framework NAS video project you're working on too!
Great video here btw :)
Thank you for testing Pop!_OS,
And for the avalanche of great recent content.
Good video. Definitely going to install one of these Linux distros on my Framework 16 when I get mine.
If it is Linux Mint, get the Linux Mint EDGE edition.
Great video! You are really good at explaining things while keeping it entertaining.
Thanks for the test, great comparison.
I am most interested in performance with KDE Plasma.
@ElevatedSystems, thanks for reviewing hardware for the Linux audience! There are too few content made with us in mind!
Awesome video, man.
Keep the Linux videos coming!
This video was honestly amazing, as a Linux power user myself I'm impressed by how well you explained everything, I'm looking to buy a new laptop to replace my Thinkpad X1 Yoga Gen5, thanks for the video!
Thank you for linux deep dive
Very useful video. I am looking forward to trying Linux Mint Debian Edition on the framework.
Wow you really managed to include far more than 10 links without including one to the website of Framework, the product you are showcasing. Truly epic!
content creation at its bestest 😮
What a well made video!
It's good to see different distro's getting compared in this video compared to your video on the FrameWork16.
My personal distro of choice has become Garuda Linux Dr460nised edition, which I tried between switching from Manjaro to EndeavourOS and stuck to as theming aside it's default configuration saves me a lot of time.
Arco Linux seems like an interesting alternative, but no point changing a well working system, unless it's expected to break (when using AUR packages or extensions) like Manjaro or Gnome.
Arch-based is what I'm comfortable at and it's good to see that the FW16 handles rolling distro's as well as is to be expected.
Half-surprising that Mint performs so poorly but it's a famously conservative no surprises distro's, which absolutely has it's place and was the defacto-standard at my previous studies.
It goes without saying that Ubuntu 24.04 LTS' and Linux Mint 22 Cinnamon's kernel 6.8.x and its newer version of linux-firmware may change some of the results achieved above.
Truly great video. Thanks for doing this video testing. I love channels who try things out and satisfy the hobbyist inside of us all.
would love to see more challenging distros
void, for example
Let’s go!
Arco FTW!! 🍾
The more i watch your videos the more i want min to arrive, can´t wait !
Got mine May 1st. Love it.
@@ContantContact can't wait to have mine arriving. Have yet to receive shipping email. Probably tomorrow
@@aure_eti I was in batch 12. Ordered 222 days before it came.
Agony....now bliss.
Well, not worshiping it but am finally productive again.
@@aure_eti Get on the FW community blog, and you can better estimate the timeline. If you are not there already. Lots of answers there. Like, Linux Mint Edge is the version of that to use.
@@ContantContact i finally recieved it. Love it. Have yet to find something not working on Linux with it. And game are running so smoooth.
When I upgraded from 11th gen to ryzen 7640U I decided to resuse my ax210. Waay better than the mediatek crap. Framework were forced to sell mediatek with amd boards but that's only if a bundle is chosen
I have no problems with wifi, so far, but also I use an old 5GHz router. However I did preorder an msoc m635 or whatever it's called module that might not even fit in the laptop unless I mutilate it a little bit. (would have glonass and Lte integrated lol) I'm hoping that will work out of the box!
Interesting findings - Good to know I might want to reconsider Mint (my usual preferred distro) on Framework hardware... I wasn't even aware of the Arch variants you looked at. In regards to wifi - Another workaround, slightly more complicated/not free, would be to replace the MediaTek module with an Intel AX210. The AX210 is known to work perfectly fine in AMD FW machines and costs about $20 (be it from Framework Marketplace or elsewhere). The swap is more involved than a few commands in Terminal but not challenging - Especially for anyone already opting for a DIY Framework. The primary thing anyone doing a swap needs to be aware of is they must use an Intel AX210 *_not_* the AX211 - AX211 requires vPro functionality only available in Intel-based laptops. An AX210 should be recognized and "just work" well with any decently modern OS.
From what I understand from Framework mods in the subreddit is if you install mint using the FW Ubuntu guide, because the distros are so closely related you can get official support for Mint if needed. The latest OEM kernel update has also fixed most of the wifi issues. It's still slow though.
I have the standard WiFi on FW16, and it works fine with Linux Mint EDGE edition, which is for newer hardware.
Great
Interesting, guess I got lucky with my existing install of Manjaro KDE /w wayland (but I also tested Fedora 39, Mint - not great - and EndeavourOS)
Manajro being a rolling distro like Arco Linux means latest kernels&drivers, so no issues expected (though I don't have a router capable of these speeds anyway)
Fingerprint reader works out of the box and can be configured in the System Settings (even better than Fedora, which had problems), though to actually use it for sudo/login/lockscreen you do need to edit a few config files still
Fractional scaling works great on wayland for wayland-native apps and X11 apps that are properly programmed, moving from my laptop screen to a large 1080p screen is seamless. Though some X11 applications don't support that, but can't think of any rn
Power profiles are available out of the box from the battery menu in the task bar
No idea about dGPU/hybrid mode, don't have that, nor do I have tools to test battery life properly
For Shadow of the Tomb Raider (and other Feral games), it will ignore whatever DRI_PRIME variable you set. You need to use the Feral Launcher and set the proper GPU for it to render.
This is the content I need to help me decide whether to splurge on the 16. Thanks! Would replacing the wifi card help resolve the problems with wifi 6E?
I haven't tried it on the 16 but the AX210 works perfectly fine on the AMD FW13 in windows and Linux.
I have the standard WiFi on FW16, and it works fine with Linux Mint EDGE edition, which is for newer hardware.
mine has been kind of annoying. the fit and finish for my keyboard deck is actually worse than expected. every review was saying 'it doesnt look perfect but you cant feel the seams so its fine' so thats what i expected and i can DEFINITELY feel the seams. i actually bent down the bottom spacers by the touchpad so the edge wasnt sticking up so bad, but i'll admit their design for the attachment system is actually amazing. im hoping they improve the fit later on
Windows 11+ WSL for me due to my need of design software like Affinity Photos, Davinci Resolve, etc etc along side my Linux based full stack web and flutter development work. And then there's peripheral support. I wish Linux was a realistic choice for dev and creative work.
scaling with gnome fedora or ubuntu is good ?
05:16 What's that DE? As far as I know Gnome 46 and Plasma 6 both do not support gesture customisation. That sucks. Under Gnome there were some extensions that could customise some gestures, and for Plasma, I have found nothing.
Whatverrsiln kernel did Arcos use that fixes the wifi throughput? Can it be i stalled on other distros such as Fedora? We just recently got 6.8.5 in Fedora 39.
Try upgrading to 6.8.6, if that doesn't work try switching to the mainline kernel.
@@ElevatedSystemsFedora 39's current mainline kernel is 6.8.5. We'll probably get 6.8.6 soon.
Watching this on my FW16 with Fedora KDE Plasma. I knew there was going to be WIFI issues out of the box so I picked up an Intel WIFI card from Amazon for $35. Its been flawless.
Same speed test you are using got me
892.04 Mbits/ps internet on a gig connection. connection speed to AP 1.297 GBits/ps
Overall I've been really happy with the behavior on install. Had a few issues, but after a week most of that is settled down. I've even been messing with the Plymouth boot loader. :D
I will say the speakers on this thing is not good. When my Samsung Tab S8 Ultra that is half as thick can sound better. (Admittedly with 4 speakers.) And my Samsung Fold 4 with 2 speakers also sounds richer, something is wrong.....I don't know if it is the drivers or what but I really want an upgrade down the road, be it software or hardware.
Which Wi-Fi card did you get? Because I noticed on frameworks website they sell several Intel cards
I have the standard WiFi on FW16, and it works fine with Linux Mint EDGE edition, which is for newer hardware.
I know those selections will please folks interested in them specifically, but most people will select Ubuntu or Fedora if only because they're mentioned on the site as being supported. Also for newbies (myself included) they should be at the top of anyone's list. I am likely to install Fedora when batch 12 ships (my batch). Have you covered these previously or any reason you didn't in this video?
I covered them both in my AMD FW 13 Linux video.
I'm surprised you didn't look at Ubuntu or Fedora at all, sans the brief mention at the end.
I tested both of them on the AMD FW13 in my last Linux video, since almost all the hardware is the same it would be a bit redundant to test on the FW16.
Damn, so Windows is still more efficient. The firmware, driver & distro integration of power tools and profiles can't come soon enough.
But excited to see that the games are just as fast in Linux, that is very nice.
Regarding distros... I'm curious how will a very-tuned Gentoo run on this thing. Well, I'm always curious about that :D. Basically nobody on the web does it. I'll do it myself on a Framework one day, but I want a 16 one (preferably 18, if that is ever released) with Intel CPU. I hope I won't have to wait too much for that, though my senses tell me "mid 2025, with Arrow Lake". Which feels like waiting so much ... my current laptop will be over 8 years old by then. I guess I'll be able to polish my Gentoo, Linux kernel and power tools knowledge by then.
My FW15 sidelined 2 HP X360s, and the FW16 is like a breath of fresh air after nearly suffocating.
Also, I have the standard WiFi on FW16, and it works fine with Linux Mint EDGE edition, which is for newer hardware.
It recognized the wifi card right away.
Did you have any blurry pixelation when using fractional scaling?
yes, on XFCE you need to scale back to 100% before launching games at full screen. If not the resolution will be all messed up and blurry at certain resolutions. I forgot to mention that.
looking interesting at last .Now will it take operating systems such as solaris 11 or openindiana and illumos.
Framework works with Ubuntu and Fedora to make those distributions work best on their hardware. With others, you’re on your own. Still, as with any hardware, Windows will work best.
Both Garuda and Arco but no Endeavour is an interesting choice
I've done Endeavour on the FW13. I try to change up the distros for each video.
Ah, fair
@@ElevatedSystemsi suggest you to use original linux distros like Archlinux, Opensuse Tumbleweed, Fedora and Debian for testing or gaming on laptops, because it makes your life easier if you use the original ones except the many others that are based on original distros
Arco, endeavour and Garuda are basically the same honestly. I run endeavour OS on all my machines and I'm ok with the choices in this video.
@@MyReviews_karkan it comes down to which kernel you go with.
Is this Framework any good for 3d Blender users?
Not really. I covered briefly here: czcams.com/video/_UzJRQwQze8/video.html
Arcolinux is amazing
I was impressed with it.
But you can only update BIOS under windows right?
No, there are instructions for updating BIOS under Linux and in standalone mode.
Sorry, I did not understand, how long the battery is ?
In my scenario, streaming a CZcams video, best case the battery will last about 6.5 hours. For continuous productivity work, the battery lasts about 8.5 hours.
I would very strongly suggest not to use an Arch based distro besides Arch itself. Especially since the now pretty old addition of archinstall there really isn't any point to it, it's just another liability; Arco is maintained by a single person as far as I'm aware and Garuda has it's own repositories, so it will break the AUR.
Great video. I run arch on a thinkpad now and was wondering how a framework laptop does with it, so this was very encouraging.
I have the standard WiFi on FW16, and it works fine with Linux Mint EDGE edition, which is for newer hardware.
They need to sort they screen bezels out it’s not 2020 anymore
The first thing I did when I bought my FW13 AMD board was switch to an Intel AX210. I heard that Intel managed to bar manufacturers from shipping Intel WiFi cards with AMD processors, and if that's true, Intel is definitely a scumbag for that.
Actually, I'm pretty sure it's the opposite. AMD excludes the AX210 & AX211 from the "AMD Advantage" standards due to "Compatibility" issues.
Why does mediatec exist? I hear only problems. Meanwhile, Intel and realtech are not so bad.
Honestly, not even a Linux thing. The MediaTek WiFi cards are just trash. I experience the exact same problems you described with my Zephyrus G14. So frustrating.
I like the ease of upgrading, but it is way overpriced.
Number 1 you told a lie about being 6percent. Your not taking into account of all the steam deck users. Which runs on arch Linux.
No I'm not taking hand held gaming consoles into account when I'm talking about computers. Just like I didn't take into account Xbox or Playstation operating systems, or all the other OS's used by consoles. Apples to oranges. But out of curiosity if you take into account ALL handheld consoles, including all the ones that run Windows, what is the Linux market share?
Another lie about the bios because windows doesn't not use anything to help with zen architecture. However Garuda has kernels that use zen kernel which interacts with ryzen CPU much better than the Windows vanilla kernel. For your information a kernel is the base of your operating system
AMD and Intel for that matter works directly with Microsoft to ensure efficiency and compatibility when designing CPU architecture and microcode. I used the AMD Zen kernel in my Garuda testing and windows was still more power efficient.
Framework hasn't yet experienced the thing which makes or breaks companies, which is supply chain for parts. Your product can be the best thing since slice bread but it won't sell if people can't get replacement parts easily, especially considering that's one of the marketing points of it. I'm also not a big fan of those square modules. While the idea of being able to replace which ports you have is cool in theory, those things are not portable at all in that form factor and nobody is gonna carry those little boxes with different connectors around in their laptop bag.
This is almost a copy and paste comment that I've seen on numerous discussions about the Framework laptop. It seems like "comment bait". Are you actually interested in why individuals, such as myself, are interested in the "square modules"? Or are do you just have some interest in driving engagement regarding Framework laptops, in which case I am wondering why you are driving that engagement backwards?
Given the popularity of ChatGPT, I am actually wondering if I am responding to a ChatGPT generated comment, leaning towards the copy and paste aspect. Can you explain why your comment does not inquire as to the lack of a trackpoint nub to replace the vaunted IBM/Lenovo Thinkpad trackpoint?
@@marvinmallette6795 I don't see much outside of those being facts.
@@BrunodeSouzaLino You don't "see". Which is why I accused you of being a Chatbot.
Your insinuation of "facts" invokes a "troll" tactic. I was investigating whether you were a troll or not, and I do believe that this statement confirms that you are indeed a troll.
You have raised questions, but are not interested in the answers. You are beholden to false information, in an antagonistic stance against the Framework laptop, but are not interested in being provided accurate information.
There are genuine questions and concerns regarding well "what happens if". The responses generate excitement and interest.
The laptop is not for everybody. You do not have to like it. The module system is one of personal preference.
With regards to the modules, I will throw back at you, what do I, me personally, need with modules, and adapters, and dongles?
My Surface Pro 4 has a single USB-A port, a single Display Port, and a Power connector. My Macbook has USB-C ports.
I have a dock with an HDMI port, and USB-A for a keyboard and mouse. When I am on the go, what more would I need than an HDMI port for a conference room?
@@BrunodeSouzaLino Are you kidding me ? Those square modules are the best! First thing, no dongles! Much better, much easier to carry than dongles, no need to worry that they bend too much or they get stuck together. It's so elegant. And also, the modules... can be made by others! Which is exactly what happened already. Not just the same modules made by some random people, but actually NEW modules, like the first Ethernet module - it was not made by Framework. CJ here on Elevated System did one too. So on this front, nobody has to be fearful of anything. Also, in the absolute worst case, you still have the USB-C connections that the modules connect to.
This is such a non issue.
@@marvinmallette6795 I don't know about you, but calling people you don't agree with "chatbots" because you can't develop your own opinions past fact checking if others are using AI is more trolling than what I am commenting. Considering your whole schooling attempt, I'm gonna copy what you're doing and call your response BS on the basis that such defense could only come from a Framework sock puppet.
So expensive…
Yes, that is one of the biggest obstacles to early adoption of the FW16.
@@ElevatedSystems How is the performance on battery? Is there much difference between being connected to the network and the battery? With battery can you play at the level of an asus rog ally?
@@user-wz1nr1ds5f check out my FW16 Gaming performance video. I cover that.
ubuntu is pronounced oo-boon-too
Little known fact, only duchebags pronounce it like that. Know ya know.
Any plancs to do like Desktop / PC reviews?...maybe AMD Ryzen 7 "7000 Series" types of tests?....just curious.
Oh and I subscrideb by the way!...LOL!
how can a piece of tech be so good and so ugly at the same time :c
Dafuq is Arco Linux 😅
Laptop is really ugly. Expecially the screen having thick mate plastic bezel that sits elevated above the edge of screen. Looks so 2015.
Skip to 4:06
Most of our viewers are courteous human beings and will watch the entire video because we took the time effort and expense to create it. But we did add chapter markers for those in a hurry.
If you do you will miss lots of good info about this laptop's strengths and weakness with Linux in general.