Paddle Autopsy - What's Inside? Part 1: Gen-1 vs. Gen-2 Paddles
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- čas přidán 3. 08. 2024
- A two-part series peeking beneath the hood of paddles to explore technology and performance.
Part 2 here: • Paddle Autopsy - What'...
Jump to sections:
0:00 Introduction
0:34 Sample & Methodology
1:17 Fiberglass Paddles
3:02 Gen-1 Raw Carbon Fiber Paddles
5:07 Gen-2 Raw Carbon Fiber Paddles
7:43 Speed Testing: Gen-1 vs. Gen-2
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You are a mad scientist, thanks for doing all the experiments for us
I really enjoy your scientific approach to testing. You explain things in a clear and easy to understand way. Arguably you're one if the best paddle reviewers on the net. Thanks for sharing your discoveries.
Awesome video, can’t wait for part 2!
John, you earned this sub, thanks for your response to everyone. I look forward to your Vatic Pro V7 16mm results in spin and overall play ability. Since it's just my 2nd paddle (3 weeks of play) ever, for perspective, I'm currently a 3.5 after just (May 23') short of 3 months; the right paddle for my style and lots of proper training and playing will play a big part in me attaining my 1st yr goal of 4.0. Btw, I'm 62, so I don't have decades to waste. I freekin' love this game!
Im glad you added that disclaimer about not destroying new paddles. That wouldve been such a waste. Nice video plz do more paddle reviews/comparisons
Love your videos! Got your notifications on!
Appreciate you taking the time to analyze and test these paddles! Looking forward to more content
Excellent video, loving it!
Excellent and thorough overview and review. Well done.
Great Job. I appreciate your time and effort investigating this.
Nice job with all your videos🎉
Fascinating!
This is AWESOME! Thank you so much for publishing this video/information.
Glad it was helpful!
Very clear explanation, good stuff!
Great dissection and photo magnifying
Solid information, thanks!!!
This is awesome! Thank you!
Nice work John!
Thanks, Marq!
Great job John, just wanted to add that my SixZero DBD i've had for only 4 months has core crushing issues (obvious cracking sounds when thumb pressure is applied to the sides and sweet spot) so your statement about "none of these thermoforming paddles in this chart show any signs of delamination, disbonding or core crushing etc" may need to be revised, and i communicated with SixZero and they won't honor any 6 month warranty as they say any core issues past 120 days is not within their policy...The public NEEDS to know this! Ronbus is right on with their technology and product integrity and i have definitely switched to them moving forward!
With all of these manufacturers coming out and using the same tech, the one with the best customer service will last
@@swiffty1029 true, but his statement was to add integrity to the fact that thermoforming means better odds against delaminating or core crushing issues, which now might be merely academic as with my core crushing issue on my DBD, Core crushing happens and i am not a smash pickleballer first kinda player...more for aesthetic and placement play.
Hey Joseph, I'm sorry to hear about your paddle - that's a real bummer! To clarify, the statement I made in the video referred to the sample I used to speed test - none of those were delaminated/disbonded/core crushed. In the second part of this series, I dive into this issue, and look at a Six Zero Black Diamond that has a crushed core and is disbonded. You can definitely see the effects of heat and pressure on the polypropylene core, even on ones that don't have core/delam issues. The question to me is whether or not traditional thermoforming compromises polymer cores with the amount of heat and pressure, so they will eventually break down in months, rather than years for cold-technology paddles. After all, polypropylene is just plastic. I know that most companies producing thermoformed paddles are working hard on a fix - including Six Zero and Ronbus. I think the next big innovation will be a different core material that's more durable and more resistant to heat. Maybe Aramid, or some hybrid.
@@johnkewpickleball thanks for the clarification, ya i don't knock the chemical treatment of the paddle construction, after all it's just iterations of different techniques over time, but am more disatisfied with the specific company response in not honoring the warranty, or at the very least making it (said 120 limited warranty) more explicit to end users before purchasing. Can't wait to see your part 2!
First thank you John for such an in depth review of these paddles. My question is why do you never seem to cover USA manufactured paddles that are their companies TOP line paddles ? ie: Prolite Pro XLT LX or Engage etc. I know you can’t test all paddles but most of the ones you cover seem to come from over seas 🏓
Nice work, John.
Many thanks - I talk a bit about the Predion in Part 2
So much spread sheet! I need more access to that.
Love the dissection, good insight. Based on my use the CRBN 1X is faster than the Butter Filth and the SixZero Double.
The obsession doesn't stop at the court - it goes into cutting and dicing helpless paddles for pleasure.
I strongly suspect that the edge foam and bonding clamps the top and bottom faces such that a simple support edge is avoided. If the carbon fiber faces are stiff enough, the bonded edges may mitigate core crushing and reduce the potentials for deboning and delamination; simply because the core doesn’t collapse. I prefer what Gearbox offers with their patented SST Core design.
Darn vatic test for power
Hi John, When is the Ronbus Nova coming out and what are the specs? Thanks.
Incredibly well edited and well thought out video that brings a much deeper understanding of how paddles are made and what the differences are.
Very interesting how the DBD 16MM showed a faster serve speed than the 14MM. Why do you suppose that is?
Also interesting to see that while the vaunted ProKennex Black Ace is still powerful, there were several other paddles that outperformed it. I had thought that it was the king of power, but maybe this shows otherwise.
I realize that this only a serve test. But seems to me that power & speed on serves would correlate with baseline drives (and even volleys) as well. What are your thoughts?
Great observations. I’ve come to realize there’s a big difference in power vs. pop. Power being the energy generated with a full swing, and pop being the energy generated with short, compact swings. So power = serves, drives, overhead slams. etc. and pop= punch volleys, etc.
I’ve been testing pop with a radar gun on punch volleys. The Black Ace is #1 on pop, even above EVA foam paddles, which are far and away the most powerful, but middle of the pack with pop.
@@johnkewpickleball great explanation. I think beginners would do well to heed the power vs pop differences. Still interesting how the DBD 16MM outperformed the DBD 14MM for speed on serve. Does that mean the 16 has more power and the 14 has more pop?
Seems to me that most beginners to intermediate (like me) would benefit more from control paddles with less “pop” so that they can have a more consistent soft game, where they more likely need to improve.
As I’ve begun to get better, I realize I’m using far fewer baseline drives and am more interested in the “touch” that a less poppy control paddle offers.
Thank you. Good info. Curious what you take on the EVA foam paddles is. I've used the Ronbus EV1 and really liked it, but I don't want a paddle that isn't approved. Maybe that's not necessary?
The EVA foam paddles are fun, especially the ones covered in raw carbon fiber. They almost play like a racquetball racket. But yeah, I don't use them much because I don't want to get used to something I can't play with in a tournament.
I appreciate your time and results of these paddle autopsies, and the serve speed results too. I see you have 7 paddles from Ronbus in your serve test. I tried a Ronbus 3.16, but ended up buying the Vatic Pro V7 16mm (thermo formed) and love it's touch and power on demand. I'm curious if you'll be testing it for serve speed in the near future? Some say the serve is not necessarily an offensive shot, but as an ex high level racquetball player 40 yrs ago, I humbly dis agree with those statements. A strong and deep serve, mixed in with higher and slower topspin and lower side spin serves, the serve becomes a point winner as I continue to confuse my opponents by constantly switching up and can easily take away the return of servers advantage, imho.
Definitely, my Vatics are with testers now, but when I get them back, I’ll speed test them too band I agree, the serve should be a weapon!
What microscope are you using?
Interesting speed results btw the R1 Pulsar and R1 Nova as you have them pretty much dead equal. I own both (weight and balance matched) and find the Pulsar much more powerful. Perhaps power isn't linear with paddles which is something I haven't seen anyone test. What I mean by that is that 2 paddles might have a large difference in ball speed with a slow swing with the difference becoming proportionally smaller as the swing gets faster. Your test is with your fast conforming serve speed.
I've also started testing power versus pop. So power being a full swing on the serve, and pop being a punch volley, dropping the ball at arm's length and hitting a backhand punch with the paddle starting at the chest. Preliminary results are interesting - the most powerful paddles typically have less pop (e.g., all of the EVA foam paddles), and the less powerful, thinner paddles have more pop.
@@johnkewpickleball That make sense as we know the EVA core paddles get the power from face deflection which will have a greater effect with faster impact conditions. Every paddle will have some form of power curve. In an ideal world you could set up a rig to shoot balls perpendicular to the paddle's face at different speeds and then measure their COR at each speed. Same for measuring spin; shoot balls at an angled paddle face and then measure the resulting spin. So much untapped testing potential in PB equipment overall and I don't think anyone has really done any empirical testing of balls. How much faster does a Dura come off the face vs an X-40. How much does one spin compare to the other. How much does a 10 degree temp difference effect both. I've got a ball machine so perhaps I need to set up some testing rigs of my own. I wonder if any of the inexpensive golf ball launch monitors could pick up data from a Pickleball.
👌🙏😎
None of the Vatic Pro paddles were on your speed chart. Were any of them tested?
I do have the Vatics, but they're out with testers so I haven't had a chance to speed test them yet
I love your analysis ,great fact based topics with good analysis. One item that is obvious though, is you have never included the Legacy paddle iin any of your CZcams videos,including this part one video. Is ther some bias towards the Legacy paddle by the exclusion of even your listing of the paddle in your charts of over 25 paddles .The Legacy has sold more paddles than many of the listed paddles, as well as it has ground breaking design features , many of which your listed paddles are catching up to these design features just now.
I've got nothing against Legacy - it's just that the owner has been so backed up on orders, he hasn't had a chance to send me one yet. We've been in contact since February, but he's so backed up on orders, it's no wonder he doesn't need another review out there. I did get a chance to play with a friend's Legacy for a week, and enjoyed it.
Legacy is famous for delamination
On power speed ratings, couldn’t another maybe stronger person or weaker create different data than you?
For sure. But as long as you're holding the strength variable constant (using one person), the comparisons should be valid.