Stellaris Nanite Swarmer Ship Design - The Machine Age
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- čas přidán 1. 06. 2024
- Stellaris Nanite Swarmer Ship Design the Machine Age. In this video I review the new Nanite Swarmer class of ship which you can get from the Cosmogenesis crisis. We explore several different ship designs and do combat testing on them to find out which is the most effective build to use and what weapons work best. Watch this video to find out.
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______Contents______
00:00 - Introduction & 1st Battle - Disrupter Nanites
04:20 - 2nd Battle - Carrier Nanites
08:03 - 3rd Battle - Devastator Torpedo's
10:35 - 4th Battle - Neutron Launchers
12:57 - 5th Battle - Autocannon/Plasma
14:10 - 6th Battle - Whirlwind Missiles
15:12 - Conclusion - Hry
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Are you sure the Nanite Swarmers are unlocked with the new crisis and not the new Nanotech Traditions?
So what we learned from this video is to put swarmers are your nanite swarmers for ultimate swarming, just like when swarmius said "ITS SWARMING TIME!" and swarmed all over the enemy fleet.
It is unlocked with the Nanotech Traditions, my mistake. You can unlock the 3 nanite weapons techs in the Cosmogenesis crisis or the Nanotech Traditions Tree as well. Thanks for the correction.
Yes and no, I thought I showed good ways to defeat them, but the Carrier Swarmers are very powerful, going to test this a lot more as it may be very hard to beat them, hopefully I find a counter.
@@tachyonlance1969 Btw for some reason pre-update the galactic community ships could be equipped with nanite weapons and the nanite repair systems, was that a bug or is there some way to achieve them before this update?
0:39 You made a mistake here, these ships aren't unlocked by the crisis, they're unlocked by the nanite ascension path/tradition tree. The crisis perk only unlocks nanite ship components (autocannon, flak battery, repair system), which the ascension also gives you
Yes, someone else told me that as well. You can also unlock the 3 nanite weapons from the tradition tree as well.
@@tachyonlance1969yeah, I’m sure at this point you already know, but if you go down the nanite accession path you will have nanites coming out the wazo after a few years
Yes it can be powerful getting all those nanites and buildings warmer ships plus the free ones.
Carrier nanites are balanced by the lag they cause. Around the time the crisis hits you should have multiple thousands of swarmers. That plus all the strike craft they spit out makes even high end computers struggle.
Plus, they tend to still fly around and not do a lot at times if you watch them closely.
The real challenge is managing the 50 fleets of 2-8 swarmers that clog the fleet management screen.
Yea that would be a real pain, I really need to fix the fleet manager, when you fight crises at x 25 you have hundreds of ships building all the time and it is a massive mess to sort out.
UI is the true enemy.
Yes you need a UI and Fleet manager that is not broken to managed so many thousands of ships and then to rebuild them all and merge them when that stuffs up as well.
Not having access to artillery combat computer really does them dirty
They would be so powerful if they had that, imagine 250+ kinetic arty firing at you, going to be a very bad day, unless you are all corvettes.
Doesn’t surprise me nano-carriers are busted, you get the same carrier capacity as a carrier cruiser for the same naval cap as a corvette, with significantly easier investment. They’re especially busted when combined with a juggernaut using the strike craft boost and a chunk of torpedo corvettes. The strike craft will be more than enough to clear the battle of any other strike craft by the time the corvettes get there, and they can help with the heavy lifting of killing bigger ships
Thats interesting about the juggernaut have to test it. Corvettes don't have a torpedo ability; do you mean Frigates?
@@tachyonlance1969 lol yea my bad I meant frigates, although if you’re swimming in enough alloys, missile/torp cruisers work better but they’re a larger investment.
I have the torp cruisers in my balanced fleet, but they have disrupters on them instead.
The big thing I heard with them is they have no upkeep, you get a lot of them for free, and if you are playing wide and tall you generate so many nanites it just doesn’t matter. Now I don’t know how they effect war exhaustion or if they even do. If they don’t that’s another huge bonus, if they do then they are pretty much useless.
I have not used them in a real game yet, but I can see they would be powerful in a wide empire. You could also do a high unity build, rush stations and get it all done by year 30, that gives you 4 rounds of 5 years to build a nice Nanite fleet then go on a rampage.
They affect war exhaustion like normal lost ships, and because of it this strategy is amazing for Nemesis run, not so much in others.
@@jinnsaint1358 That is a good point, I like to combine nanite neutron launchers and have 50-60 fallen empire escort ships to screen them. That’s 400 neutron launchers per volley from the nanites with 200 in a fleet. This is if you go Cosmogenesis.
If you are playing shattered ring then do not upgrade the capital to a full ring or you will lose the bonus buildings you get from synthetic age.
I lost my nanite producing building so I now have a grand total of O nanites to use.
Oh, that sux, must be a bug, make sure to report it on the Stellaris forums as a bug so it gets fixed.
Same on remnant world... but if you upgrade it to ecumenopolice before, it will remain.
Good point, report it to paradox on the forums as a bug.
So basically, carriers swarms are meta, and they still need a buff to make them relevant either by lowering their cost, or buffing their HP.
They are free if you take the tradition; zero build cost and zero maintance. They will count to fleet cap so you just only use nanite ships. After a while each starbase will give you a stack of 64 ships every 5 years.
If you can get enough carriers yes, but I could add more Flak defenses to that fleet or opt for more carriers of your own if you know you are fighting someone using nanite Swarmers which comes from the new crisis.
So, if you have 20 x StarBase's you get 20 x 64 every 5 years for free. So, you could equip about 6 of these fleet you have seen in this battle every 5 years. Enough to be a pain also snipe away, but against large fleets they are still going to get crushed, unless used in massive numbers, like thousands of them against big AI fleets that have multiple 200k+ fleets. They could use bit of a buff to make them more useful for use with other weapon types.
Have your tried a mix of archeotech drill strikecraft (forgot name) and normal ones for the nannite ships?
@@tachyonlance1969 i will argue the nanite fleet should not be buffed, nanite deposit grow over time and unless you get the edict its really not that hard to get to 200k nanite if you save them up and if you add the nanite swarmer you get for free you can have them support your fleet or send them against the enemy fleet, they will get destroyed but they will take half or more of the enemy fleet with them and by the time its all over, your actual fleet and your alloy will still be full and they enemy will have a broken wounded fleet. this was so effective that for a large part of the game i did not even have a regular fleet and just had nanite swarm the enemy.
I was insanely luck and got scourge missiles out of a rift. With scourge missiles, carrier behavior and advanced afterburners it was extremely effective. My swarmers kept running away while firing a shield penetrating G slot weapon behind themselves.
Best weapon in the game, very lucky.
I found your channel yesterday and was livid that you didnt have a nanite swarmer video. Oh how my prayers have been asnwered
Perfect! Welcome. Glad I make you happy. :)
I am going to be trying a tactic using gestalt empire with tactical protocols to buff it's armor and shield pen, plus evasion. Then spam ancient mining drones with the rubricator and arceo-engining.
Sounds very promising, lets us know how it turns out.
Add some zroni stormcasters into the mix if you get lucky with your precursor race and your choke point systems will be essentially impenetrable
Thats very creative, I like it.
I think they're balanced as they don't have upkeep. Like if you go whole hog, you can be 50000 over navel cap with 0 upkeep. Might melt your computer though, the lag is real.
Yes they are expensive, but i built in syrems with arc furnaces and full citidel stations all with mining boosters and a nanite harvester. Nanite income is no problem... And there is very little else to use them for.
Only resource you can't sell
Good points. Might as well use them if they are mostly for free. Be good to have a few more options with them but I can see how it would be OP, like having an L slot for Kinetic Arty and Arty Combat Computers, having thousands of them firing at you is going to equal a very bad day indeed.
I am making a guide on Genius Armorer council build for Individual Machines, in my test run the maths show a multiplier of 7x the total health sum with 4 council positions (not sacrificing minister of state); I have shared previews of the guide on a Nanite Swarm thread on the Official Stellaris Discord, strategy channel :)
Discussing with others we still don't know if Genius Armorer applies to Strike Craft fighters, does it?
Sounds like a good guide. I don't know for sure but why would it not work with Strike Craft? It should apply to anything that has armor as far as I understand how it works. Only a Dev can answer that for sure though. If you want to share your guide on my discord, feel free. Details on joining my channel are in the video description.
Interesting,I will check it out once you release it
I asked in the modding channel, they said unfortunately strike craft is a projectile despite it resembling a ship and firing other projectiles, just a matrioska doll xD
Well that is good to know, thanks for that info.
Noticed with the second battle. The Perdition beam damage values are inflated. By that it does massive overkill on any nanite swarmer ship it hits. So that starts are inflated. Thus I wonder how much else things are inaccurate of the stats.
Good pick up, I will have to look at the more closely, I was wondering why that damage was so high, thanks.
I used the nanite swarmers as a alternative to frigates, they become very good at taking out battleships and crisis ships
What are the weapons you use for your designs?
So I feel dropping a nanite torpedo ship on the entrance to borders is the way to go, if enemy is running cruisers or battleship fleets, but carriers are the best all rounders
Yes, ambushing fleets at higher lanes with torps is a very good option, provided they don't have a bunch of corvettes screening them.
I didn't see you putting any shield hardening on your fleet. Seems to me that against nanites, shield hardening in place of shield capacitors would blunt the torpedo, disruptor, and strike craft attacks. Facing nanites with your titan and BB designs looks to be asking for trouble - equiping the titan with lasers will at least allow it to strike back against close in attacks and having a proportion of carrier BB (2H, 2PD, rest whirlwind missiles) would help greatly.
It was mostly a continuation of my fleet builds from previous vides over recent days as this build had been so strong, so it was also to see how it stood up to nanites without any changes. Yes, I can min/max it better, but I still beat them most times without doing that, so simulates a surprise attack in some ways when you don't know what is going to hit you.
Where to begin? Their cost may seem daunting at first because we are used to have one or two nanite deposits if we are lucky. But for a nanite ascended empire they are dirt cheap. And that's not counting all the free fleets of them you are getting every 5 years. You can have 10k fleetsize worth of them in a few years without ever building one,. Just spam starbases with the nanite building, treat starbase cap as a suggestion. You can easily afford the incrased upkeep, since most importantly the swarmers have no upkeep! Which leads to my second point, you are comaring apples to oranges in this video. The whole point of the swarmers is to swarm! You will never send equal fleetsize of swarmers into the fray. You send 10 times as many. And the regular fleets melt before they can shoot back because they are so outgunned. And if they manage to shoot back? So what? They are wasting dps potential, since they overshoot the 80 hp swarmers so much. It's like taking the naked arc emitter stick battleship strat against a 25x crisis and turning it up to eleven! Send in a mix of devtorp and carrier swarmers to 25x Cetana and laugh as she desperately tries to shoot them down with the 6 titan beam she has on board. Each shooting for tens of thousands of damage... against 80 hp XD. Honestly nanite ascension is stupidly broken. (Even more so then virtual in my opinion.) The only balance built in is how my cpu suffers when I select 8k ships at once. And that's on the galaxy view. I don't dare check the system even though the swarmers blocking out the star must look glorious :D
Oh I agree completely, yes in huge numbers they are very powerful. What I am showing is tactics and designs best suited to beat them. 10,000 is a large number but , 1500 corvettes with disrupters which is only 6 fleets of 250 each, only a little more then I would use to screen my 25-35 main fleets in the late game. 1500 corvettes with disrupters will decimate 10,000 nanites. But the AI won’t do this to you only human players. Early game rush with nanites will be a trend soon, watch and see.
Think the swrmers need to mix up weapon types as well. You need some carriers and something long-range artilery/neutrons/missiles. The carriers clear out the screens while the artilery ones shoot the big ships.
Only problem is you can't have artillery computers. You also can only have M slot weapons, H, G or P nothing else. They could rework that a bit.
@tachyonlance1969 I guess the carrier computer would work with missiles and neutron launchers. Go half and half carriers or maybe like 40/60 carriers/missiles. There surely is a composition that can offer a better fight than a full mono weapon fleet.
Going to explore that in more detail in my next video, thanks.
Done some tests myself in a run:
- Firstly, you are able to spam thoudands of nanite swarmers - hundreeds upon hundreeds spawn for free every 5 years and you have access to thoudands of nanines per day.
- Secondly - They are ultra expendable - So the best way to use them is on no retreat so they never disengage and stay in battle to maximize damage at all times.
-Thirdly - The weapon for the most damage per second out of all is clearly the Medium Nanite Autocannon - and you get 2 of them, put them on swarm computer stance.
So in the end, my view on how they are suposed to be used is: No retreat - Max firepower - Closest range possible - Afterburners - Max evasion - and in numbers that bloat out the enemy fleets.
Give it a try, the most essential one is No retreat, if you make a 1-1 force limit comprisson is also innacurate just because of how stupidly many you can get, but still, imo this is better than anything else. I think you didnt select any doctrine for them in the video - but these ships without No retreat are basically a no go.
I have just done a test of it with settings as you suggest, and it doesn't work unless you have massive numbers compared to your opponent, it will work against AI well but not human players. I can kill 240 nanite ships in seconds with just one fleet. I could easily have 10 of them or later in the game 30-40 of those fleets. To beat these kinds of fleets you would need perhaps 20,000 nanites and you would lose a majority of them. I can see a case for rushing nanites early with a unity build and getting them free early by year 30-40 and building up sizeable numbers hitting your enemies prior to them being strong enough to stop them, both AI and Human. I have been discussing a Nanite rush build with some friends. So, it really depends on who you are fighting, AI yes, Humans probably not as they will spy on you, see your fleets and what you are doing and prepare accordingly.
@@tachyonlance1969 Yes, basically my conclusion as well - With all 3 new ascensions, unity rush is a must. And yes, you need many times more ships than the enemy to do anything - I tested around 1.2k ships against the Fallen empire's 2x 300k fleet power fleets and i won but lost some 800 ships. Year was around 2270
The benefit of nanite ships is their insane speed too. Combine them with Driven Assimilators and you get all the pops too.
My combo is Arc Furnace Origin + Astro mining bays and you will have around 3k nanites just from 6 systems early-mid game if u push it - and ofc your entire economy being based around only energy and nanites is also very fun, there will be only 3-4 types of planets:
6 Hab districts, the rest full energy
each planet having 1 energy spec building and the machine assembly
Then come the specializations - rest of the slots up to max you fill them with nanite research buildings/vanilla unity production buildings/nanite transmuters/the alloy building
Super streamlined overall
Nice build, will have to look into this one a big, I like Arc Welders, so always looking for ways to play them better.
nainte swarm, has different strategy that normal fleets, i would like to see test of how many swarm fleets u need to overcome, i would say 3 or 2 to 1
I would say in most cases 3 for this fleet, but if they were mostly carriers, you would have a massive nanite swarm generating a massive strike craft swarm, very powerful. But could any PC's run it is the question.
They need to fix the fleet manager for these things, so many free stacks appearing
Yes, that has been a problem for a while now, prior to this update.
one huge thing is that (as of time of writing) these heckers have no upkeep, so without any other ships in your fleet your navy cap means nothing 0 x 1000 = 0
Yeap that is right, or if you wanted to, you could have at least some of your normal navies to support it, like long range artillery fire from battleships.
so what is better for nanite ships ancient driller drones or tier 3 strike craft?
I prefer tier 3 strike craft, but no reason why you could not have a mix of both, won't cost you anything. The main reason for not using them was the cost previously, hard to build a lot of ships.
driller drones when facing other players nanite ships 😉
I will test this out, see if it helps.
You also get these ships for the nanite ascension and you can get them for free
Yes from star bases every 5 years, no cost. Thanks for the comment.
Nanite Swarmer must be king with Fanatic Warlord perk
With a strong military build, strong leaders, edicts, astra rift bonuses and in large numbers it could be very powerful.
Why did the nutron launcher nanites use Carrier computer not Artillery?
You don't have an artillery option with Nanite Swarmers, can't do it so Artillery is the only option to stay at long ranges.
How much do the Nanite Ships benefit from Genius Armorer?
Well, they only have 100 armor to start with, but it would help with protecting against bypass weapons like disrupters, missiles and so on.
Swarmer missiles, proton launchers, and fighters seem to work well against the ai at least. I don’t play multiplayer, so not sure how effective that is against people.
Yea that is a solid combination to use against the AI.
Honestly they should remove the fleet command size for nanite ships or let you research the nanite strike craft module
That is a really good idea, I am sure they will have to make changes in upcoming patches to balance this update somewhat.
What is the intro clip from?
It is from Star Trek Beyond, opening scenes.
Double mm with rocket spam little unbeatable against ki
Perhaps with enough of them it could be very powerful, but you need a huge amount, ancient nano rocket launchers would be the weapon of choice if you can get it.
I wonder what was the combat computer with these neutrons tho?
It was set to carrier, but as they are torpedo weapons, they target the larger ships first, but those ships were pulling back out of range so the nanites chased them running straight into the corvettes, destroyers and cruisers and then it was over. You don't have an artillery computer option on nanites.
@@tachyonlance1969 guess I change them to be all hangar in my game, tho I do have like 7 fleets of 150 ships each per group so thats fun
Hanger looks the more effective use of them, 1 x hanger for 1 x Naval Cap, cheapest carrier in the game.
@@tachyonlance1969 tho I have about 18 fleets already and it keeps going up still, ~2000 ships
Do they come in a specific design or are they blank, and you design them once you get them. I have not done that build yet. To busy making videos.
You balanced the fleets based on fleet capacity used. I think that method is not applicable for nanite swarms based on your results. Also, the nanite empire does not use up its' fleet capacity with nanite swarmers. Perhaps counting weapons mounted would be better? Also, another thought is that because every nanite swarmer is so easily destroyed at 100 armor and 50 hull the only applicable strategies are "long range and stay out of range" and "overwhelming alpha strike" with the goal of denying the opponent the opportunity to even get a shot off. Oh, and cloaks instead of afterburners to get close.
Cloaking is a great idea. There is now way to simulate many hundreds or thousands of ships in testing, not unless you have multiple people working in a multiplayer setup. I can only test 1 fleet vs 1 fleet. I am in the process of making another video and it tests more long range weapons with mixed results. Power outage here now so cannot keep making my video :(
@@tachyonlance1969 You could setup multiple fleets if you made multiple empires and set them at war and then used console commands to switch between them. Battle reports would also be easier to read. I understand it would be more of a hassle than setting all fleets against each other.
I have tried that but even when I turn the AI off in consol command, once I switch empires the other empire moves the ships away, so it is very hard to position the ships to fight a battle. I guess I could micro a war with them, save it prior to war, have war declared when ships are near and hopefully, they engage.
I couldn't put cloaking devices on the nanite swarmer in my last playthrough. I think the devs disabled it for balancing reasons
Yes I have checked it after and you cannot put cloaking on nanite ships which would have made it very over powered.
Just because a mass swarm of nanite ships camt beat your finely tuned meta build doesnt mean they arent useful, should put some effort into finding their niche.
My first thought is that some screening ships for the nanites would do serious work.
It is not a meta build by any margin, it is just a balanced fleet I put together to fight other types of ship designs from previous battles, if you watch them, you will see the same fleet design, as it was strong against other builds I kept if for this and it still held up. It is in no way optimized to fight Nanites, I would change a lot of things If I knew I was fighting nanites. Best fleet combo would be 50/50 split of corvettes with disrupters and carrier battleships.
Swarm shud never be in ono on one situation. It is a swarm!
I agree. This way though we see what works and what doesn’t and how to scale it up to win a battle. For the swarm to win battles at close ranges you will need probably 5 to 1 in ship numbers at least possible more. If using carrier swarm then a lot less, imagine what thousands of nanite carriers would do. Be insane.
I don't really get the "nanite SWARM"... and then you make them cost 500 nanites and on top of that making them so dam weak, it's like, they thought of making a swarm, saw it was broken and then made it expensive to "balance", they don't even cost less naval capacity, it is just so brain rot to me when you unlock them at the end of the crisis, it isn't even something you get at the start, what balancing thought process was this?
You can get them for free from StarBase's with the traditions, every StarBase gives you 64 nanite ships every 5 years for free. So, I guess that's why they made them very weak, otherwise it would be OP. But they should balance it more to make them stronger and perhaps a few less of them for free so you can actually use other weapons with them, so they are useful.
@@tachyonlance1969 Yeah, the only way I can think of them is as carriers, and even then I would mix in a few other ships, like 20 corvettes, 5/10 battleships and the rest carrier nanites, or even dropping the battleships, but I still just don't feel it is worth it; sure they can do as carriers something only they can (en masse fighters), but to manage a fleet like that seems like pure pain for very little to gain
@@Fafuncho Try to beat 8000 nanits swarmings , then 12000 then 20000
You dont understand what nanite build means. It means no corvettes , no destroyers , no batleships....It means NANITES.
They have 0 upkeep. All upkeep you have you send into Starbases , as an energy.
Only pb of Nanite build - even 14700 is crying in pain when I send 10000 ships to eat the galaxy.
But the build is powerfull as hell.
@@suriil9875 My pc would definitely stop that build, it would crash the universe before it could fire a single shot hahahaha
Not sure about that, I would never let you last that long to get 8000 nanites. You need a lot of StarBase's and that's only ever 5 years, so it's going to take a while, more than enough time for the galaxy to destroy, might work against AI but not human players.
They are crazy op! Not because they are strong. They are to manny an have no upkeep! When I was playing I destroyed everything with 20000 of these little things
Yeap you will against the AI. Neutron launchers for the win with Fallen Empire Escort ships to clear the way, no contest.
Seems to me if you're big enough to build actual useful "swarms" then you're also big enough to create even more powerful normal fleets?
Yes, you can, but Nanites swarms don't cost anything to keep other than Naval Cap, but I prefer normal fleets or the Fallen Empire ships over the Nanite Swarmers.
Theoreticly, you're right.
But the whole tactic around nanite swarms seems to just drown your enemy with your fleets. Doesn't matter how good ships and fleets are, when you can just send more than the enemy ever be able to destroy.
A formidable 800 naval cap fleet will lose to a 3k naval cap filled with crap, wich also will be more easily replaced.
Perhaps. Personally with the testing I have done, 1500 disrupter corvettes which is only 6 fleets of 250 each in the end game would beat 10,000 nanites. Normally by late game I would have this and then 25 other fleets of cruisers and battleships as my main force.
Now I´m curious how far the nanite ships can be pushed. I think I´ll try a wide empire with going as far over the starbase cap as possible for the free ships, while pumping all nanites into building as much as possible, half carriers / half swarmer missles with afterburner, since I find them most effective. God have mercy on my PC and the resolving lag XD
You might need a new PC after all of that.
So, what happens when you have 5 genius armorers on the council…
Well, it stacks, that would equal 100% armor penetration defense, so disruptors and other armor penetration weapons would not go through armor but would have to do damage to armor and have to reduce it to get to the hull as far as I understand and have seen how it works in game.
@@tachyonlance1969Out of the gate, thats +500 shields (which they never get back after losing) and 500 armor, so like 20x the survivability? I know few builds ever achieve the 5x genius armorer unicorn but even 2 combined with carrier swarm nanites would vastly improve survival. Other option is fanatic overlord admiral for +150% damage. Sure you get 50% less hull/shields/armor, but when you barely have any to start…
That is a very good idea, fanatic overload admiral with 150% damage buff, ouch. Those nanite carriers would be unstoppable, well maybe x 25 crises will stop them but not much else. All though we did just get the Khan in our multiplayer game, starting with his fleet at 500k and support fleets from 250-350k, he has a few million-fleet power and this is year 80.
@@tachyonlance1969now that sounds like a Khan i might bow the knee to…at least for a while.
I just counted his total fleet power in 24 fleets, 5.7 million, his own fleet is 506k, he has 750% bonuses to hit fleet. No one can stop them; he could destroy all 3 fallen empires in our game fighting them at once if he wanted to. Might be a game where the Khan takes over most the Galaxy, leaving it in ruins.
They seem worse than useless tbh. Extremely underwhelming and disappointing.
Players are reporting that they are crushing the AI on grand admiral with them, as you can get so many for free plus some builds people are producing 16,000 nanites per month which allows them to afford to build 32 nanites a month at the cost of 500 nanites per ship. No Maintenace cost, no cost for any other resource no matter the weapon of equipment on the ship.
@@tachyonlance1969 I guess from that perspective... But my finger will get tired from pressing the button to build more xD
Yea nanites not really my favorite thing to build either but could prove useful to have a bunch sitting around if you get surprised, particularly if some AI empires are larger and more powerful then you.