Turin Legato: The DISRUPTOR arrives… but does it disappoint??
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- čas přidán 25. 06. 2024
- Turin Legato Espresso Machine* - geni.us/hv58AXs
Turin DF64* - geni.us/GZDNJM
Turin DF64 Gen 2 Review - • I didn't want to revie...
* = Affiliate Links
On paper, it crushes the competition with unheard of features for an espresso machine that costs $500, but when I tested it, I found out that not all of those features totally delivered. Still good value? Let me know what you think after watching.
0:00 - The Turin Legato
0:23 - Predecessor Disruption
1:24 - Features & Accessories
3:39 - Steaming Performance
4:33 - Internals
4:48 - Finish Quality and Cup Clearance
6:05 - Breaking New Ground
6:52 - PID & Preinfusion
7:31 - PID Performance Data
8:49 - Preinfusion…. Not Really
10:35 - Bonus Features
10:50 - No OPV :(
11:33 - Needle Valve - WHAT?!
13:24 - The Bottom Line
13:48 - Pulling a shot & Taste Test
14:18 - Pass/Fail?
The Turin Legato, MiiCoffee Apex, Gemilai CRM3007, or whatever other name you might find it under is a pretty wild home espresso machine. Let me know your thoughts on it!
Great review, thanks
Great video on this. I hope they'll go the same route they did with the DF lineup and the Gen2 of this comes out in a couple years addressing all of the concerns you raised in this video. I also selfishly would like it to take a couple years to sort out so I wouldn't feel as premature in moving on from my GCP to this for my house. Maybe in the mean time I'll get the guts to do the Gagguino mod on this machine and not even need an upgrade.
I think this machine is amazing and I've been watching it pretty closely. I am not one to do mods on anything, and it seems with the gaggia it's pretty necessary and almost expected to mod it. The dual heating elements is a big selling point for me as well! Thank you for your review! 😊
I received mine yesterday. Pretty happy with it. Agreed the pre- infusion is questionable 😊
So glad you got around to this machine. I've had mine for over a month now and enjoy it a lot. Of course I picked up the bottomless normcore portafilter right away. Opens up that area for drinkware and just better shots tbh. You're right about waiting longer for hotter shots, i got used to that after the first week and just adjusted my coffee prep. I never bothered with the pre infusion mode from the beginning as im always paying more attention to timing/weight of my shots and being able to adjust the 'needle' valve was a big help in that. I still love all the features this machine has that only show up on Profitec or rancilio machines for triple the price or more. Dont get me wrong, once i can afford a machine like that in the future i would probably buy one, but for now im happy with my sleeper machine punching way above its price point. Loved your fair review ✌️
Do you find you need to adjust the flow rate for each bean? Struggling dialing in my shots in this! I'm super new tho to that's also why. I have the flow rates down to 3ml/sec to lower the pressure hitting the puck.
I will wait for v2.0 but definetely would buy it wirh OPV and a fixed ppre infusion
The pre infusion is great. That’s all I want when I’m doing mine.
Just bought this, it comes in this week. I'll almost certainly mod it with an OPV, but then I have basically a half price profitec go, but with less wait for steam.
I really like mine. It's made some outstanding shots for me.
With an OPV I may have bought it but went profitec go instead and love it
Thanks for the awesome review, sir! Was just curious if maybe you can try a long press on the manual shot button to actually change preinfusion time. Because the long press on the minus button I think changes the preinfusion pause time. Saw this on Tom's Coffee Corner video. And if it does work on your unit then maybe you can make a follow up video to clarify the "useless" feature remark? More power to your channel sir!
Thank you for this! I will certainly test and report back. This adjustement is not listed in the documentation that came with my unit but I will try it and see if it works! If it does, I will certainly update!
Just an update here! I tested this and a long press on the manual shot button does NOT allow for changes to the preinfusion water output time.
For the time being I stand by my comments. As I said though, I would not be surprised if this is updated on future units. It seems like it would be an easy firmware change.
@@DaddyGotCoffee thanks for the update, sir! I guess even if they are same machines and just rebranded, some resellers like MiiCoffee has more updated models. This is great to know! But man, with the preinfusion actually working then the only question will be its build quality and longevity. These new cheaper machines are really shaking up the market.
@@Tristan_the_ultimate Working preinfusion plus adjustable OPV, then I am on board.
Good afternoon. There are two settings for pre-infusion in this coffee machine. The first setting you used changes the delay time between the infusion and the main flow for making coffee. But there is also a pre-infusion spill setting, you can set the spill time, the set time of 1 second just goes from the factory. The original name of the coffee machine is Gemilai CRM3007L, this is the second version, the first version was CRM3007G.
Thanks for this! Someone else commented about this adjustment. I just double checked the documentation that came with my unit and the only adjustable parameter listed is the time I show in this video. I will see if I can access a spill time setting and if so, will absolutely update!
Just an update here! I tested this and could not access this setting on the unit I have. Another person suggested a long press on the manual shot button - on my unit this does NOT allow for changes to the preinfusion spill time.
Adjusting the spill time is not listed in the documentation that came with my unit.
For the time being I stand by my comments. As I said though, I would not be surprised if this is updated on future units. It seems like it would be an easy firmware change.
@@DaddyGotCoffeemy Legato cannot access the spill setting via long press of the manual button either. The latest version of the MiiCoffee Apex now has this feature so I immediately tried it on my Legato to no avail. It will probably be added to future versions. I’ve been leaving the pre-infusion disabled and have been quite happy with the results.
To change the pressure to 9 bars, you adjust the pressure flow vault while you are pulling the shot. It'll not work if you adjust without pulling the as the same time.
@@demerzelnguyenThat’s not adjusting the pressure, however. It’s just adjusting the flow rate. So a different dose, tamp, etc. will make it so that the flow rate doesn’t stay locked to whatever pressure you want. I’ve gotten used to and enjoy a 7 bar extraction and there is no way to make sure it’s consistent. I’m sure they’ll add it in the next version though.
Got this for only $400 with a pre-order deal on Turin's website. I'm loving it for the money and found that once you get the grind and flow-rate correct, you can pretty consistently get 9-10 bar shots. I've never used one of Turin's grinders, but I'd definitely be interested to see if they have the same value for money that I believe this machine has.
They do. Famously so. Most performant grinders in their price bracket. Go for the DF64V with SSP burrs - endgame grinder und $1K.
Hi, for the PID, any Offset required?
It would be interesting to have a comparative review of this. The Gaggia and a Rancilio.
Yeah I really need to get one of each. Dual heating elements is a big one though.
🔥 🔥 🔥
🔥💪
Looks like a great machine for the price.
The only reason I’m a little disappointed I got a Bambino Plus instead of this is because eventually I’m going to want to upgrade my machine, and when I do I’ll have to upgrade all the accessories too. With this having a 58, it would be a lot more seamless. I didn’t feel like going with the Gaggia though because of the lack of PID.
Yeah 58mm is def an edge over the brevilles if you plan to moving to 58 at some point in the future!
Pre infusion is fixed now and they have a free user replaceable control board for anyone who wants to upgrade an old one.
The preinfusion has been the most common issue I see raised that feels like a really big miss. It feels like it could be fixed with a firmware update though. Just need to let it push more water out before closing the valve. Could be a pain to fix for units already out there, but it seems like they could easily fix this without doing a full revision
Totally agree here!
How does shot taste compares to the taste of let's say, a big machine with 5L boiler or more?
Hey apologies if you already covered this but your audio sounds fantastic. Would you mind sharing what you use for audio recording, I'm trying to replicate the sound quality in my own kitchen for some videos my wife does for her meal plan business. Thanks, always appreciate your coffee knowledge.
Hey there! If I had to guess, he's using a shotgun microphone since I can't see a lapel/lavalier mic or anything around. That shotgun mic would either be going directly to his camera, syncing the audio together, or to an audio interface or field recorder allowing him to later edit the audio further. Sennheiser, rode, and audio technica all make fantastic shotgun microphones. My favorite of the 3 being the sennheiser mke 600. The mkh416 from sennheiser is nearly 1k, but is a stellar microphone and the one they use on NPR tinydesk. A simpler/more cost friendly option may be getting a lav mic like the rode wireless go depending on your experience/affinity with audio equipment!
@@marquishardy2341 thanks for the detailed reply. Will for sure look into those options.
@@jwanger142 you're so welcome! Please feel free to reach out if you have any more questions!
How's the steam pressure compared to the Ascaso Steel Uno/Duo which also has therm block heating?
It’s quite comparable. Both are about 35 seconds to steam 6-7 oz!
Cant wait for version 2 or 3, if i need machine right now i would still go gaggia
I would go for bambino plus in this price range unless you go the gagguino route
Why? It's better than the GCP already.
I got DF64 Gen 2, Is this a good option to make upgrade to revile barista? Thanks
Yes!
Can you change the PID from C to F like on a Lelit?
No you cannot bu this machine is the only and best option for the price range without spilling out 1000 and then you might as well got to 1500 its a solid machine
Can’t be crazy picky at $500 for this with the options it includes. That being said a few improvements would be epic with maybe a small (if possible price jump) opv, pre-infusion to be actually a useful feature, insulated steam wand with different hole options, & a bottomless portafilter. Maybe a pre infusion option on manual mode. (Is this asking too much?) 😂 but seriously 🤔
My first day and a half I was convinced preinfusion was broken but it was because I was pulling manual 😂☕️
Gaggia classic and rancilio silvia terminator
Exactly 🤯
is this the same machine as the Kafmasino?
Same case. Internals are very different
I feel like it's not worth the upgrade from a bambino plus, even though it's 54mm.
Definitely valid! It won’t be for everyone!
There seems to be a load of these "clones" on the market, Miicoffee Apex for example
Turin (for Espresso Outlet) is probably buying them for $150, rebranding them without adding anything, and selling them for $500. Pretty nice profit margin for zero R&D or manufacturing costs. For $350-$400 I’d probably jump at one, but not for this price. I know it’s relatively inexpensive compared to the competition, but that doesn’t make it a bargain. IMHO, espresso machines in general are grossly overpriced.
Bought one on Amazon and it didn't work after two uses. Poor construction, casing was incredibly flimsy, preinfusion might as well not be there, no OPV valve. Wanted to like it but the price was too good to be true, unfortunately. Saving up for a machine with better build quality.
Maybe on a version 2, like the DF 64 some of the kinks are worked out, but for now I would get a Gaggia Classic EVO (USA) for $450 and self mod it with a PID. I'm usually looking for a track record of reliability, so that's why I'd go with the Gaggia, and I consider myself handy enough to do some simple mods.
At first I was really disappointed I got the Classic only a month before the reviews for the Legato started coming out, because I would have really liked a built in PID. But I think this product is really going to push other companies to find ways to reduce prices or make new products if they want to stay competitive in the entry level market. Maybe the Bambino line is safe because it is solid for the price, and the plus model will do auto milk steam which is very nice in the morning when you're trying to run out the door in a hurry.
Gaggia having problems with Teflon flaking off their boilers, many retailers are offering extended returns on them
Just returned my Gaggia Evo , returned it due to flaking, got the Legato yesterday from Espresso Outlet.
I'd rather save up another $450 for an Odyssey Argo...but that's just me.
“Welcome to the rest of the global community “ 😂
Seems like the factory behind these products is using the first wave buyers as beta testers with the low price as the temptation to get an unfinished machine, then the mk2 will be the real machine with the bugs ironed out. I am at the stage of trading up to a better machine now so its not on my radar.
As far as I can tell, they have been manufactured for some time already under the “Gemilai” brand, but are new to the North American market under Turin/MiiCoffee
You seem like kinda a snob about theses things all the other reviews of this machine have been nothing but good . Even from sprometheus. He is the very definition of a coffee snob and he gave it a solid reveiw. Just saying
As it stands, my verdict on this machine in the video is great value for the price and potentially disruptive to the market overall. I even went as far as to say nothing is touching it on features for price. I think it makes me diligent, not snobbish, to point out areas for improvement or places where what is advertised may not match up to reality.
If the preinfusion actually did something useful I would be less critical, what it actually does in real world use could actually lead to MORE channeling. I don’t think criticizing this feature is overstepping.
An OPV would put it over the top, and if a preinfusion is billed as a feature it should at least work. The warm up time is something I felt responsible to point out as a reviewer and not even really a negative, just something to be aware of.
Despite these critiques, it’s still solid value.
@@DaddyGotCoffee I was talking about your description of the build quality. It's an entry level machine it's not all gonna be copper and brass . I know you have to mention it but it doesn't have to use the words junk or cheap. All entry level machines are built to have less expensive level builds. I think imo it was a little harsh. That's the point I'm making.
@@carrscoffee ok, that’s fair. It does feel significantly cheaper and less polished than a bambino in many ways, which is less expensive. But maybe I should have phrased that differently.
@@DaddyGotCoffee again I'm not picking at you at all I did like the reveiw tho
You sound like a pain or maybe the Chinese seller. It's his view, he's entitled to say what he wants. The Turin website is dodgy, links that don't work, they essentially say they don't care about import costs from China. You'll get screwed if this machine stops working within warranty. So get rid of that chip on your shoulder, it's holding you back!!
Who can spend 3k when this is ~ $500
My 200€ espresso machine has a 3way valve ... And about the opv, don't be so lazy 😂