Hugo Email Leaks Reveal The Truth!📧 Cait Corrain Is Still Here I Guess?🛑 ~FN~
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- čas přidán 21. 07. 2024
- Let's jump into the fantasy news... I guess.
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NEWS:
00:00 Hugo Email Leaks: file770.com/the-2023-hugo-awa...
11:54 Cait Corrian’s Statement: www.thedailybeast.com/author-...
Sorry for another week without a book review! Blame Bryce for writing a dummy thicc book that I just finished last night.
Dang it Bryce
What's thiccer, the book or the cheeks on the cover?
I finished Fire and Song last week!
So you finished it last night and we Still don’t have a review? Cmon Daniel get your shiat together.
I like thicc books and I cannot lie,
You SFF readers can't deny,
That when an author walks in with a mind bending premise
And a big spine in your face...
Does such a parody song exist? Why not?
Perhaps the funniest/saddest part of the Hugo Scandal is that seemingly for over half the books that were banned, the reasoning given was “I haven’t read it but here’s a Wikipedia article”. The bare minimum effort was done for this nonsense lmao
They called the book "The Iron Giant" instead of "Iron Widow".
YUP! They also spelled their name wrong... twice.
@@DanielGreeneReviewscant believe they spelled they're name wrong twice
@@ColombianThunder
Um....their*😂
@@DanielGreeneReviews 😂😂😂😂. I see wht u did they're.
You are who you choose to be.
The Hugo award committee weren’t just “following orders”, they were preempting orders. Wow. 😮
None of us can know that. I am sure administrators had conversations with higher ups.
Well, it's a most common thing in authoritarian governments. Underlings quickly learn what does the boss or party wants and try to preempt they wishes. Ones who doesn't do this gets quietly removed from the money flow, fired or imprisoned later. And in the end bureaucracy, companies and oligarchs do what they need to do, and party can say that they didn't order anything. As someone from Russia, I have seen that many times.
Are anyone really surprised about that? Any censorship (or law in that matter) works not because of the punishment, but because of the threat of punishment
@@Based808 They were warned against using works with hot button issues like tibet, or hong kong but several those works use chinese mythology and I have seen enough actual chinese wuxia and the like with far more controversial topics published so the emails where they describe books "I don't know, I haven't read" looks like they just decided to censor all of that because of their own pre-conceived notions of what would be seen as "bad" in china.
Well, yeah. There'd be no way they were following orders - Kuang is about as pro CCP as you get in polite society.
Someone sent me your video. I’m one of the authors affected by Cait Corrain. I’m in the article you mentioned. As a new author, their actions nearly damaged my book. I can’t even finish the video, but thanks for not platforming Cait Corrain. It really means a lot.
I think Cait is getting too much hate and the drama is overblown
@@ThugShakers4ChristAre you her?
I dont see how her actions couldve damaged anyone's book. They were unethical and against the rules of Goodreads, but books are not damaged over a few anonymous goodreads users rating a book 1 star.
@@ThugShakers4ChristI agree its overblown. The problem is her motivation epitomizes a type of "straight white panic" that occurs whenever minorities do well and that it actually caused her to cheat. This sort of thing needs to be discussed more.
But in terms of actual possible harm? She had 10 or so puppet accounts give her "competitors" books 1 stars on Goodreads. Good reads is not an arbiter of anything, it's not how most ppl choose books, and though they might check on app to read a review or find out more *usually of book that they were already considering*, they are not going to be put off by a few ppl having it 1 star, nor by a negative review that isn't actually dealing with the literary substance of the book.
Part of why her act was so pathetic was because of the fact it was actually meaningless on a practical level. Like she *CANT* affect the fact she got a smaller book advance and less promotion than another author.
It was an immature lashing out straight white insecurity. . It's only important because of that dynamic. If it had been all het white women, it would've just been pathetic and in poor taste , reported and removed from Goodreads and then forgotten about.
It's the underlying motivation that is important and needs to be talked about, and THAT topic should be big and get discussion but not in particular to Caitlin. She is just one example of how Straight White Panic can radicalize a person's actions whether they realize it or not.
@@tamakikawaii I just don't see it as being that big of a deal. I don't think her actions would have that big of an impact
6:50 wait wait wait...Xiran Jay Zhao's THE IRON GIANT?! These mfers can't even get the book's titles right?
They also spelled their surname wrong.
Twice.
It's four letters long.
@@Ruminations09 And two different misspellings within the same email, too. If it was one misspelling they kept consistent, sure that's laziness. But this is a whole other level of not giving a fuck, when they couldn't be bothered to look over a centimeter to see how they misspelled it the first time. One of the most prestigious awards in SFF, ladies gentlemen and others.
The thing about the Hugo disqualifications that actually surprises me (because them pro-actively caving to potential pressure doe not) is that none of them seemed to be familiar with the actual content of the most popular books, or to know anything about the authors.
Why were they even involved in a convention and award if they have no interest in the books?
I thought the same thing! I would think it would be literally required reading for those involved.
Same! How had they been giving the awards in past years? Like Goodreads? The most popular wins? No read require?. They have tarnish their reputation with me, I won't be able to trust in their fairnes from here on out
@@per-c8229 Yes actually. The hugos are by popular vote. The limiter on that has always been that you need a paid membership and to attend the con, and only hardcore sci-fi readers care enough to do that so it self regulated pretty well and the *voters* tended to have actually read most of the titles.
It's been exploited in the past few years due to how open it is, first by the sad puppies and now this.
They're political commissars. Reading isn't their job.
@@thhunter they're deciding on whether or not these books will get the awards and their staff in trouble, reading them seems like a bare minimum so that they know if they ACTUALLY contain content that would get them in trouble with china, but hey that's just my opinion
Conversation that should have happened.
Committee: "China, are you going to prevent us from awarding authors from countries whose books are not subject to your laws and have, thus, been written in such a way as to prevent them from being sold here?"
China: "No." Things go on. -The End
China: "Yes. We do not want those books to be promoted or available to our citizens and, as World Con is in our country, we wish for those things to be disqualified from your ballots."
Committee: "I am sorry. We are not able to discriminate against a world wide selection of authors in this way. As such, we will postpone the Hugo Awards announcements until World Con is over and everyone has dispersed back to their countries of origin in order to prevent any legal or political conflicts with our host country this year. Next year, we should consider the censorship laws of any suggested host country as we represent all authors from across the world at World Con."
now add the part where this is a good deal for the committee and ccp pr.
Yes…..
Yeah, is not roquet science, that just shows how tokenistic their support of does comunities really is.
@@MrGhostTheBigRoastForgive me, I can't always tell, is this meant to be sarcastic or no? Do you want a response?
Common sense will never prevail.
As someone on the spectrum, Cate using autism as an excuse for her behavior actually makes my blood boil ☠️☠️
I have austim but using as escape goat is wrong
On one hand, yes, on the other, i think we should laugh at her goofy wannabe supervillain she is. laughing at her pathetic attempts might take power from her, she isnt deserving hate, she deserves redicule.
Yes she harmed people but there are also booktube creators making up by covering them which hopefully helps?
Ii just think cait doesnt deserve hate but to made fun off as goofy supervillain.
I second this statement completely, couldn't have phrased it better myself.
Im autistic too and same!!! You say 'I have autism' to explain why you're awkward in conversation or stimming in public. Not moral failings. To blame that on autism is infantalization
She also used the words "High functioning" TT. As someone ND, but not autistic, even I know not to use those words.
Saw a tweet from an author who was targeted by Cait originally, and she reported that after she pushed back on these latest Cait statements, her books are mysteriously getting 1-star review bombed once again. 👀
Man, that’s funny and interesting. Cause I just came here from Reads With Rachel’s video on the Cait debacle and thought “Wouldn’t it be “funny”, if those authors she had targeted started getting one starred again and then she came out AGAIN to say “It was me. I did it again. See? I can’t control myself! It really is the fault of my mental illness/meds/autism/what have you!” But that would be too wacky even for her. I think.
You can easily see how many of those Hugo admins convinced themselves they were in the right. The whole thing was framed not as harming the authors they were wrongfully disqualifying, but as protecting the convention workers that would be in China.
The problem being the lack of reflection on why you would hold a convention in a place where giving books awards could get you arrested by that country's government.
Sounds like the Hugo people didn't even read a single book in the running for the awards 🤡
That's not really an issue. The hugos are by popular vote. The limiter on that has always been that you need a paid membership and to attend the con, and only hardcore sci-fi readers care enough to do that so it self regulated pretty well and the *voters* tended to have actually read most of the titles.
It's been exploited in the past few years due to how open it is, first by the sad puppies and now this.
@@robbybevard8034its an issue when theyre recommending authors be disqualified due to hearsay about the content of their stories
@@robbybevard8034 but the fact their emails are "I haven't read it but I heard it has this which I think goes against china law" 💀 like read it??? Then you'd KNOW. It's your job.
@@robbybevard8034it is an issue if it's up to you to decide it has offensive content or not.
@@avsambart The issue here is with the Hugo Administrators for the year deciding to remove works from the shortlist. Those works should have been there as per the (paywalled) public vote. That's separate from the people who nominate and vote on the awards. The rules for the Hugo can also be changed by public vote of Worldcon attendees and will hopefully work to prevent this from happening again. One proposal that's already bubbling out of discussions is separating Hugo and Worldcon administration so while they're both components of WSFS, administration of the awards will not be physically tied to the con and the awards will be given out at the con.
Honestly Im kind of impressed by Cait's balls to just keep a social media presence, like if I got outed for something as scummy and insecure as that I would delete everything an retreat to the Siberian wilderness and spend the rest of my entire life in a cave eating pinecones out of shame.
or at the very least still delete everything and then quietly release self-published stuff under a pen name, maybe I shouldn't be giving her ideas though lol
Anyone with a normal sense of shame would never do that in the first place.
I say this as an autistic person: never use it as an excuse for deliberate and malicious behaviour. As for the Worldcon bunch caving to the CCP, all I can say is that for a company covering a book awards ceremony, I'm seeing an incredible lack of spines.
Heck yes! Malicious behavior has nothing to do with autism. It has to do with those individuals being a-hats.
And people who say it does are wrong and need to stop. It is infuriating (and infantilizing).
CPP¡....Just look how they cave to israel....
@@quinn0517 Not to mention that blaming the autism implies that anyone else with autism is likely to do the same kind of thing, which further marginalizes people who are already struggling.
Dave: I've seen paperback books with stronger spines! **bah-dum tiss**
Daniel, I understand the standing up to censorship thing, but for me the big issue is that they wouldn't even admit they were censoring the works. I would have had a bit more understanding if they came out and admitted, "these are the books and authors that the CCP blacklisted, and these are the awards that were given to those that were allowed." There's bowing to the censorship of the host country and then there's pretending it doesn't exist. The first is sadly understandable given the circumstances, the second, with the attitude given is either cowardice or bad faith.
You know they’re ashamed when they can’t even explain what they’ve done in clear language and just point at “the constitution”
The first port of call for pathetic leadership is to just have a tantrum about how you have the power to do whatever and you don’t have to explain yourself
I like how you handled talking about Cait, by featuring those who were harmed by her actions instead of her own words.
Agreed. I'm definitely going to look into some of those books; the blurbs sounded rad, and the authors deserve the support after this nonsense.
We are pleased to announce that Worldcon 2025 will be held in North Korea
Honestly they could have chosen any other country yet they chose China. Like a country known for censorship what else did they expect. 😮 is their reaction 😂
And boom the tea sprays from my nostrils to this comment will take time healing.
I mean, being in South Korea would be almost as bad
And the next one in Uganda! LGBT authors need not apply! 🙃
Hungary is also a great choice if you want to ban LGBTQ+ books! 🙃
(Someone help us 🥲)
“And one of them is just…a hate crime.” Amazing delivery of that line. I died laughing.
What's the hate crime, though? As far as I remember the story, some author left racist reviews on the works of POC authors she was jealous of. Wouldn't that count as hate speech at most?
@@samvimes2061 Yeah, hate crime is a hyperbolic label here. What she did was racist and ethically horrible, but it was not technically illegal.
The journalism in that DailyBeast article was atrocious. "Against her will" ... 'no autonomy over her actions' ... Um. No.
It surpasses my girth of comprehension.
I have a petty bone to pick with Dave. Sure, he's kowtowing to bigotry and censorship and complicit in essentially cheating authors out of an awards nomination, but he is also using quotation marks in a way that doesn't make sense.
The quotation marks are for actual quotes and indicating sarcasm, he is just putting quotes around random words for no reason.
He shouldn't be judging books or critical of anyone's use of the English language if he can't even figure out how to use sarcastic air quotes.
Sadly, despite what bones you might want to pick with Dave, his mastery of the English language should not the reason behind your "anger". Not only is shaming someone for their lack of proper understanding of grammar or spelling wrong (think immigrants, people with learning disabilities, etc), as his use of quotation marks was absolutely correct.
"Quotation marks are a type of punctuation used to show direct quotes, dialogue, and certain titles or otherwise to set aside words in text. [...] Scare quotes are used to show that the writer doubts the validity of a word."
Among the various uses of quotation marks, one can use them as a "scare quote" when they aren't "sure" the correct word is being used. When Dave says, for instance, that "[...] the balance of categories *should* finish final [...]", what he means, and what we can gather from his use of quotation marks (which he doesn't actually do, he uses "*"), is that it was estimated for the balance to be done by the end of that day, but there's no guarantee that that time-frame will be respected, so one should take his message with a grain of salt. He also uses "*" to highlight specific words, which can be confusing, since he uses "*" for a variety of reasons in the same sentence, but that is also correct.
Hope this helps.
I think it's asterisks, no? But he *really* loves using them, it's quite irritating to read.
The emails are very badly written. Those who can't, admin.
@@eduardaarrais I think the intention was to shame Dave for something he has shamed others for in the past.
@TheRedHaze3 degradation of oneself instead of focusing on actual the problematic aspects of the other person is something I will never understand.
They couldn't even be bothered to check for spelling regarding author's and their works. It's Iron WIDOW, not Iron Giant, and they spelled the name wrong TWICE. Their name is Xiran Jay Zhao. It's on the cover of the book if they did more than five seconds of research
"I want next week's fantasy news to be drama-free." - Daniel, 2024.
"...which happens with frequency so its not really that controversial if we need to do it..." BOY was that a terrible assessment of the situation 😂
Hey Daniel, I just wanted to say thank you I've gotten back into reading because of this channel!
The Hugo controversy is yet another example of the sad fact that well-meaning democratic people and organizations with integrity simply cannot host events or participate in events hosted in/by autocracies. It sucks, because that means writing off much of the world, but doing so will always lead to having to compromise on values. And compromising our values will always lead to harm. Sometimes in more obvious ways than others, but never small.
The Hugos had coasted for 60 years on the fact that only people who really cared about SF&F would pay to be a member of the World Science Fiction Society. Now there are people who have taken advantage of the naïvety that became ingrained after decades of sort-of democracy.
Ha that's funny you think the world con people are well meaning.
One thing I can be thankful for in this debacle is that the Hugo people have just given me my next reads. Those books are going to the top of my TBR pile.
Same. I read Iron Widow because of this
As someone on the spectrum I’m just… done… Done with being the target of vilification because of people’s misconceptions and outright evil people using it to validate their actions… I’m just done…
Obviously, the Hugos need to be padlocked and started again with entirely different people. Preferably, people who's number 1 priority is quality writing in the fantasy genre. What a concept!
I am starting to think the problem is not the Hugos or WorldCon but a selection of people who should be the repository of logistical expertise and institutional memory and instead decided they know better than anybody else, certainly than the common fan, and that the rules didn’t *really* apply to them.
I nominate Larry Corriea, Jim Butcher, M.A. Rothman and David Weber as a starting lineup.
I would like to also read the Chinese side too, to be fair. Because someone on the Chinese side of the committee did the equivalent of a subtweet saying they objected to the disqualifications strongly and no one on the committee asked for it... but rather Dave just barreled ahead with it because of his conceptions of the Chinese government rather than checking. BTW, I'm not praising the CCP by a long shot as a NB queer. It's more like, I like the balanced reporting rather than making blind accusations that the CCP was directly involved when Chinese committee members and Dave said they were not. They just censored because of what they thought the CCP would do, rather than what the CCP actually did. But then I tend to give benefit of the doubt to people I don't know.
BTW, not autistic, but I do have Sensory Processing issues and I have had dissociation. There is no way you can make a coordinated attack with those two things going on *at once*. If you have visual overload, that means that screens physically hurt your eyes--the light is too bright so it's not blue light, it's all light. And usually I get that with other sensory overload, like sounds hurting too. If you have that going on, my English goes down the drain. All language skills are out. I'm down with a blindfold, and usually headphones playing sounds I like for a day to get over it. Sometimes a week. It's not fun. But there is almost no way to engage in social media in the way Cait claimed either. That's what visual sensory overload feels like.
Dissociation is worse because I'll forget to finish a sentence or a subject. I can't fill out forms because I can't remember if I filled something out or not. I forget things. Things drop out of view. I literally started my rice cooker, put in rice, put in the water, put the pot into the rice cooker and then forgot to turn it on during dissociation. And then for three hours, could not remember to turn it on. Objects I put down fall out of view and I can't remember where I put them even if it was 2 seconds ago. Self care is near to impossible.
I hate both because it interferes with basic functioning and I can't write under those conditions and I usually use writing to cope with other things. Grammar is out the window.
There is no way you can coordinate a concentrated attack with visual sensory overload AND dissociation. Besides which, often my dissociation kicks in to help with my sensory overload by numbing EVERYTHING. Operating or alternating on both, having a coordinated attack, is near to impossible. I just don't believe them. I can believe they are too glued to their social media to go outside. But really, NDs like myself benefit from being around nature. Do that, Cait, do that.
Well, of course the CCP would deny it. I’m not saying they premitted that (I wouldn’t put it past them) but there isn’t really a way of telling how much influence they really had.
Chinese SF fans are now very concerned because one thing the CCP does not like is bad international publicity. They had pretty much been left to their own devices before. Now they are being noticed by the Party. Not a happy position.
@@CalvinLee606 No, I'm saying the committee at Chengdu on the Chinese side said there was no CCP involvement and Dave McCarty also said so as well at a later date (In his fabulously bad interview). In another words, they censored before they even asked. The Chinese committee pushed against Dave McCarty and then he threatened anyone that disagreed with him, according to the Chinese side of things.
This isn't the CCP saying that the CCP wasn't involved. It's Chinese people on the committee saying McCarty was an AH on Weibo (Chinese twitter) publicly calling him out for it. And if the CCP were involved, those tweets would have been struck down, but they weren't. (Because I have some familiarity with how the CCP operates. TT they banned some of my favorite shows and banned Korean dramas for a while too (I'm Korean)). Which verifies the Chinese side even more. Dave McCarty is just an AH that assumed Chinese censorship before Chinese censorship.
Because when censorship is total, they will strike down people speaking out and sometimes ban Weibo accounts.
The CCP usually lets people know when they get involved and issue official statements to show group solidarity, etc. Some of their bannings are baffling. Ruyi's palace, for example, they stated was banned because it "promoted" polygamy, when if you watch the show, you know it's the exact opposite of that. But then they made a huge public announcement about it to grandstand.
If they wanted to interfere with Worldcon, they'd have gotten involved way before that. Usually the censorship level doesn't extend to books. BL is on Chinese servers, but never makes it to the TV screen.
In another words, I don't say this with ignorance, but my ears perked up when he blamed the CCP initially and then backtracked once Chinese people said no. Because for me, who has been dealing directly with the disappointments of the CCP in terms of media, etc, and by no means a fan of theirs (given one of my friends lives in HK among other things), their caring about Worldcon doesn't seem like it would be on their list. They care more about public image and importability to other countries--which is why they lean more heavily on TV and movies, not books.
TT They banned one of my favorite shows from doing a sequel and when the sequel did come out some 10 years later, they made sure to clean out what made the original brilliant: the gender squishy bisexuality of Go Go Princess was the best. I have no love for them, but I still want accuracy.
@@kimyoonmisurnamefirst7061 Well, I stand corrected then.
@kimyoonmisurnamefirst7061 As a China scholar, I can assure you that people who live in China or have family living in China (and thus subject to retribution) will readily say the CCP or government is not involved, even when there's clear evidence that the CVP was heavily involved. Of course the CCP was involved in the Hugo censorship. China now has a law that not following state-approved versions of history can land people in prison so novels building on an interpretation of Chinese history (or mythology) that the CCP does not like are censored in China
I just can't believe how many people think a couple of weeks is sufficient for real change. It takes years to undo toxic patterns, not a couple social media posts and an uncomfortable conversation.
Thank you for listing the books that she review bombed to try to make herself look better. They are now on my radar and I want to try to read them.
At this point I don’t think anyone would be very upset if the Hugo awards just didn’t happen this year. Censoring writers is the most repugnant form of trying to control people’s minds and cannot be tolerated.
Yeah
It has been suggested that the report on the debacle should be entered for a Hugo Award for "Best Related Work".
I just don't know. Cancelling the awards this year would effectively extended the impact to an entire year's worth of book releases.
I’m not a fan of cancelling either but the awards are only worth anything if the institution granting it has credibility. Going forward with them this year risks permanently killing the award’s legitimacy forever.
Hugos have been doing that for decades all on their own by promoting privileged groups like bipoc and women over merit.
Reminds me of eurovision, how throughout the years different regimes actually blocked songs/singers critical of the establishment, but usually it's to their own country's broadcast.
Rachel (Reads With Rachel) does a part two of their Authors Behaving Badly specifically discussing the Cait Corrain Situation at much more length. I appreciate your thoughts on it regardless.
By the way it appears Cait Corrain is back to their review bombing ways since several of the authors that were initially review bombed have noticed a new round of one star reviews being left by burner accounts 😒
Thanks fro the promo for the authors that were hurt!
I've added some to my TBR, they seem great 🥰
The most ridiculous thing about the Hugo debacle is that they had two years to anticipate this problem, because that's how far in advance the host country vote happens. Things weren't that much better in China in 2021, so why did no-one raise this potential issue earlier and come up with a more equitable solution? P.S. Maybe I'll see you in Glasgow, @DanielGreenReviews !
You’re one of my favorite internet doofballs. Thanks for the news and report whatever makes you happy!🎉❤
Sci fi is inherently political. The Hugo Awards biffed the whole situation. “Curate their voter packet materials” is a fancy way to say “defraud” and “fix”
HOW WAS I INVOLVED IN BOTH OF THESE
I genuinely looked to see if these were somehow connected cause it was odd from a research angle. Add in the publisher issue and it’s been crazy to report on from the outside. Hope I did okay!
There ought to be a special section in the library or bookstore that is “snubbed.” Because it is way too difficult to put “Ineligible for a Hugo Award due to host country’s values in the year of publication” on the cover. I guess “Nominated for a Hugo Award” can fit though?
How early do they announce the host country? Asking for a friend…
Is it possible for those that were snubbed to be added to the pool next year?
The country is voted on 2 years in advance. Glasgow is this year, Isreal is currently the only finalist for one of the upcoming years.
@@rachelownbey4586 wow holding the awards in a made up country that's commiting genoc!de would be crazy...
Sad thing about the Hugo stuff, from the emails read it seems they were counting out books just because they INCLUDED China in any way shape or form. And y'know - not that the rest of it isn't really, really, really terrible, but it's also a bit terrible that books that just... have china in may have been cut out. Like that must be really bad for the chineese fantasy fans and entirely counter productive to what they wanted. Just a mess for everyone. As ever a great video Daniel. Love your thoughts on sorta... cancel culture (ignore the auther, ect) agree with it entirely. Looking forward to more.
The time to question if you can "allow" something was back when China secured the bid for WorldCon in the first place. I can't BELIEVE that nowhere in the bylaws did ANYONE think to ask "Hey, should we have... some kind of rules and regulations about what oversight the host country can have on the awards? Should we build in a failsafe in case that ever comes up?"
I know many nonprofit and public works organizations are, frankly, barely functional in the most basic sense of the word, but it is my opinion that we need to be criticizing those systems for not being robust enough to support the things they propagate. The Hugo awards are massive, career changing, and up until this point very well respected. Not having what I would consider one of the most basic structures of regulation built into the bylaws is egregious and one of the worst forms of elitism I've seen in a while. They didn't think they needed them because they simply trusted that it would always be held in and among people with "good sense" enough to make positive decisions, with little to no accountancy for racism, nationalism, or other politically charged realms of complication.
It makes you really stop and wonder how many times in the history of the Hugo awards someone's personal bigotry or political stance affected the outcome of the award. This whole situation came to light largely because of social media and public outcry from the fanbases of the affected authors, as well as the broad selection of authors affected due to the strictness of the CCP's presumed opinions. How many times in history was it just one specific author or one specific group of authors whose snub flew beneath the radar because there wasn't quite as much outcry or near as much of a paper trail? How many of them were spoken down to in this way, insinuated that their work was simply undeserving, or openly mocked for demanding reasonable answers?
So happy to hear that you will be coming to Glasgow, despite all the mess. Looking forward to meeting you!
I am autistic and very confused. I am the worst liar in the world, because being untruthful upsets and unnerves me on a deep, fundamental level. This is an autistic trait - I know this, because it is one of the clues that led me to diagnosis. So how on Earth can you be deceptive and underhanded and then claim that it was *because you're autistic*? It makes no sense!
Both these stories involved a**holes, but my brain is stuck on pettily judging Dave McCarty's abuse of asterisks for emphasis in those emails...
I am normally pretty sympathetic to people trying their best to navigate unjust systems of power. I’ve had to do it, anyone who lives or works for the government in the Southern United States has to do it. Once China got voted to host World Con there was probably not a way to do it right.
All that said, the level of spinelessness here is surprising. Yes I’m sure there was a feeling of being responsible for the people attending… but man there had to be a better way to do this than googling which authors were gay . That’s a huge yikes.
I will ask again, who thought it was a good idea to do anything in China given their governments stances on many topics that we hold as foundational issues of freedom in the west?
Every time this stuff comes up, my heart goes out to the Chinese people who live under that regime.
As an aspiring author on the spectrum, its genuinely crazy how easy it is to not be awful, Cait blaming being on the spectrum for why she was awful is disgustingly harmful and wrong. Never, in my 23 years of life, have I ever decided to harass others because of my austism. Shits mindblowing how stuff like this still happens and how people think its okay to even consider doing it.
Three-Body Problem, a Hugo award winner was the most critical to China book I've seen, and yet the Chinese government never banned it. Now we have westerners doing it to far less scandalizing books for some imagined threat (or as an excuse for their own agenda really).
People are spineless, what a shocker.
Nothing to really say about the first story, you covered/said it all. For the second, just want to say that was very well presented, and I really appreciate the emphasis (in both stories, actually) on people working toward real redemption, what that means & looks like. The internet is often quick to either give a career death sentence, with no reprieve or parole, or let celebs (figuratively) get away with murder because they're talented. I also hope the people involved in both stories do the work to grow without subjecting the public to their process. Lastly, as others said, thank you so much for signal boosting those books/authors, definitely looking them up. ❤
I know that China has a censorship problem, but I also hate how other use China's censorship to do basically homophobia or being ignorant under the disguse "I am worried for the Host's country feelings 🥺". These people didn't even looked more info about the books they were talking about!!
Great. I was just listening to the video (sorry) but glanced over and saw some of the books that Madame Corrain targeted were going by with cover art and descriptions. So now I have to go back and re-watch the video. Well played, Green.
Hey Daniel, thanks for the updates on these ridiculous stories!
I currently live in Beijing for work and I can confirm R.F. Kuang's Babel is available for sale in both English and Mandarin on TaoBao, the largest online sales platform in China. So it seems odd.
Glad you are covering all this as I am glad to know what's happening
Just thinking about the process of recovering from addiction…one of the steps is identifying those you have harmed and taking active steps to make amends. Part of the process is recognizing you are still accountable for your actions while under the influence and trying to repair that damage. Wherever Cait is in whatever journey they claim to be on, they have clearly not yet reached a level of healing to try and tackle this step in a genuine and heartfelt way. Maybe one day, but the day is not today.
Thank you for your candor and work Daniel.
Hugo award controversy is not the first nor will the last example of how the Chinese government would impose their impact on anything happens in China. People living in democratic countries truly don't get it. How is it to live under an authoritarian government... The government OWNS the air you breathe!
Why could not have arranged to submit the list to the Chinese censors first - and taken a principled stance of withdrawing if there were any issues, you know actually publicly challenge the censors - but they pre-emptively censored themselves instead.
It's wild to find out they apparently weren't even told to censor anything yet, they just... pre-emptively did so. They didn't even need to be pressured. How spineless can you be?
I like this types of vids, so much of this kind of news gets buried in other outlets. It is nice to know what some people on social media are talking about.
Love your quality of character, Daniel! Please remain transparent as we all mature and grow with you.
This channel is just really nice. Even when it's about sad or awful stuff, somehow watching it here, I don't feel sad or awful.
Thank you for the news; I'm sorry it caused you anxiety. For what it's worth, I think you did a great job. :)
Isn’t the location of WorldCon democratically selected by the entire membership? I agree that holding it in an autocratic nation is a bad idea, but who’s in a position to void that decision according to the organization’s constitution?
So the hugo awards have deemed themselves to be worthless and garbage, as the oscars and emmies and all other award ceremonies? Good.
I never expected these particular controversies to come back with a roaring vengeance. It's a lot. Thank you for covering them.
We love you friend. Keep up the work
Can I just mention that you’re not a dumb internet goofball? You always have very interesting and insightful videos and I really enjoy watching them.
Oh wow. Actual censorship. It is wild a organization celebrating writing would walk into a situation like this.
He knew what he was doing was wrong, because why did he try to cover it up. He should have honestly and boldly told why certain authors were ineligible.
Thanks for the list. I bought two of those books.
Thank you for keep us up to date, and well informed. It is beyond disappointing that we had to have these frankly disgusting updates added for this week.
I dont want to try and excuse how the Hugo Admins acted because it is extremely frustrating and appalling but at the same time, I remember studying Obedience as a topic in psychology and it is really scary how many people, good people, nice people, kind people will obey instructions that go against their own morals because it comes from authority. It's really hard to actually determine, until you're in a situation where you have to choose to be disobedient, whether or not you can disobey and frankly most people don't.
Milgram was exactly who I thought of (after collecting my jaw from the floor) when I read that well respected Western fans had done “research” on the politics of their fellow fans.
Thx for making that video - that was so interesting and while it might be uncomfortable to discuss nonetheless very important
I'm with you about how drama can be exhausting; I personally don't care much for it: it's physically and mentally draining and I don't have the patience to follow it for more than a few minutes. On a better note: Mistress of Lies looks good! Love that synopsis and it'll be out the day before my birthday. Well...happy birthday to me, YOLO, & etc.
You are definitely my favourute internet "doofball" Daniel. And thank you for highlighting the other debut books - Mistress of Lies especially sounds just like my jam!
World con very clearly needs some checks and balances put in place before next year or they just need to end, full stop, no prevarication, they either fix their system to prevent this kind of thing or go away.
6:34 wtf? Why are they able to discuss a book they haven’t read? Babel is criticizing ENGLISH imperialism and Daughter of Doctor Moreau isn’t even REMOTELY about China! Reimaginings of stories and history are “negative”? Flat out saying people who are LGBT+ is a reason to throw them off? This is a yikes all around.
They were more concerned with their Chinese committee members safety than the integrity of the awards. Which makes sense, but I'm impressed they totally pre-empted the Chinese government's leaning on them. Also: Don't hold literary award ceremonies in totalitarian dictatorships.
Cait Corrain has so much nerve I wish she'd given at least some of it to the Hugo committee.
If you know that organizing your event and handing out awards with integrity might put you or anyone in danger if you do it in a certain country...
... maybe decide not to do that in that country *but in another one??*
I can't get over noticing Dave's email username is "GrandUniversalDave". I assume that's a reference to something but... that's one heck of a username to choose.
The Hugo awards is not China's Awards, right? Despite they becoming host, it shouldn't effect how the contestants are evaluated. What they should do instead is confer with the officials on whether such person (awardees) is welcome in China to receive said awards... due to some political concerns. But they seemed to have gone beyond that, putting in host country political nature in the evaluation itself. This is the thing that tarnish Hugo Awards' reputation.
Lemme sit down for the tea ☕️ 😅
To be honest, i picked up the hurricain wars because of everything that happened with Cait about month ago because i regocnised from the other video. I probably wouldnt have otherwise. So her doing what she did, made the opposite happen. Im actually really enjoying the book too. So glad i picked it up
Cait Corrain needs to step back and not keep making things worse for herself (also really look inside to why most of the people she targeted was non-white). Reads with Rachel and Bookish Realm both have good analysis why her second "apology" doesn't really address the underlying issue of racism, how calculated everything, and her obsession with ratings/reviews even before this all happened.
Considering that novels are pretty much never censored in China anyway (e.g. BL romance is a very popular genre there!), they would never have had any trouble to begin with, especially considering that it was an international convention. It‘s just an example of Western paranoia and ignorance.
The audiobook for Mistress Of Lies by K.M. Enright comes out in August! Personally, I can't wait ❤
Here's the book recommendations that come up around 12 minutes in, because I find text form easier to make notes of them for later!
Love Me Now - R. M. Virtues
Mistress of Lies - K. M. Enright
Voyage of the Damned - Frances White
So Let Them Burn - Kamilah Cole
To Gaze Upon Wicked Gods - Molly & Chang
The Hurricane Wars - Thea Guanzon
The Poisons We Drink - Bethany Baptiste
😮 I’m going to be exhibiting at Glasgow world con selling my book series. Please say hi, would be great to see you.
Thank you.
Between the old "puppy" debacle and this new pussying out, the Hugos have lost all credibility in my eyes. I could give a shit if I EVER get nominated for one.
Props for promoting the review-bombed books instead!
Anything conneted to China in any way should have its validity/intergity in question immediatedly.
Yes, I want Cait Corrain to go away and never come back and I am willing to educate as many people who don't know the details of the whole debacle. The fact that she didn't even wait, so that I could at least consider the possibility that she may have had some time to realize her mistakes and try to change, is disgusting. Lady, just stop! (And from the snippets I saw from her ARC she writes horribly anyway, so there is NOTHING worth saving here, other than the reputation of the authors she targeted).
I'm writing a fantasy book themed around doing the right thing instead of the easy thing, and I'm quite sure Dave wouldn't want people to read it.
Oh jeez I got double newsed
The whole 'don't do anything to make China mad' problem also exists in the video game industry. China is a huge source of profit for western game companies and some of them will bend over backwards to make sure they dont make anything that will lose them that profit maker. It's so frustrating.