This Mini PC can replace ALL of your servers!
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- čas přidán 22. 05. 2024
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This MinisForum MS-01 is the Mini PC you didn't know you needed. This could be the perfect addition or replacement for all you homelab needs. This little Intel i9 13900H powered Mini PC has a lot of insane features in a very tiny form factor. This is the first part of investigating whether or not the MS-01 can replace all of our servers.
MinisForum MS-01: store.minisforum.com/products... (not an affiliate link)
US: amzn.to/4ao8LMc
AU: amzn.to/4cLoTZL
UK: amzn.to/43JldUp
Check out the review over at @CraftComputing • Is the Minisforum MS-0...
Chapters
00:00 - I can't contain my excitement
01:48 - Pricing & Recommendations
02:24 - What CPU does it have?
02:43 - Intel vPro
03:17 - What's up with RAM?
03:45 - Front & Rear IO
04:30 - NETWORKING!
05:20 - Getting inside to tinker
05:55 - Expansion Expansion EXPANSION!
08:40 - "WARING!"
09:51 - This is a proper mini PC
11:05 - Pre-installed OS
11:44 - What's the real plan?
13:07 - Hypervisors
13:32 - Does Proxmox work?
14:05 - Does XCP-NG work?
15:54 - Does ESXi work?
17:00 - The ESXi Conundrum
18:50 - The Broadcom/VMware Rant
19:39 - What would you use?
19:57 - Performance & What's NEXT???
20:56 - ASK QUESTIONS HERE!
21:54 - Bonus Bindi Time
#minipc #minisforum - Věda a technologie
I like homelab content.
I am getting three of these to make a high availability proxmox cluster with ceph for my homelab.
Don't forget you can use thunderbolt networking (around 20 GBe) as well, which I will try to use for internal ceph network using ring topology..
Nice Nick 🤙 love the homelab content mate, keen to see what this little rig can do
Viscous Bindi!
Great video. I don’t deal with servers or VMs myself, but I appreciate the amount of functionality they packed into such a small piece of hardware.
Don’t forget to try Unraid on it!
Running one of those in my homelab, it is awesome! Sometimes it is a bit loud, but other than that it has been rock solid for the past 2 months.
May I ask what the maximum power draw of this box is?
@@LoveJoyPeaceAndHopeForAll The highest I've seen with my usage is 100w with 3 nvme drives. Otherwise it idles at around 30-35w for me.
Happy B-day Nick!
I'm actually surprised that all of the hypervisors picked up relatively fine. I'm curious if there's any edge cases on XCP-ng, that's been my go to for home and testing for business. but for the homelab I've been loving it and the one reason I didn't just jump on these (along with the fact I just did home lab upgrades prior to these being announced...) was that the hybrid cores had some issues. If those are all knocked out though, makes the MS family a really easy choice, looking forward to your follow up
sounds interesting i have been looking into a box where i can just run opensense/pihole/truenas all on a single machine (i dont care about downtime if i have to reboot its a home) this box looks like a great one to throw behind my internet router and solve all my issues.
Proxmox is really cool! If I didn't have to save money right now, I'd get one of these mini pc immediately...for now, my raspberry pi 4 is gonna work fine for Podman containers
i want to buy like
4 of these
currently i have an Asrock C2750d41 with 8 drives (ds380) connected via 8088 to my netap diskshelf
i run a nuc 13 pro proxmox server alongside it
i could replace both of those machines with one of these (move the drives into the disk shelf)
run unraid on a VM in proxmox
add 2 more of these as proxmox nodes so I can run a cluster (could even migrate my plex VM as they igpu is present on all systems)
and then I'd want another one to install an old Radeon HD4550 into
which would be used as a crt emudriver gaming pc connected to my PVM
Thanks for the review.. I'm planning one of those in my home lab, doses the bios have a feature to restart the system after a power loss?
this is an *ideal* Proxmox-Ceph node with all those NVMe slots and the dual 10GbE NICs, too.
idk why i'm still seeking gears after all these years
You just gotta do it lol 🤣
if you get the arc 380 genie and put the arc 310 eco cooler on the 380 genie it will fit in this mini pc
I just bought one and it should get here on Saturday. I'm looking to have this run proxmox and migrate my apps off of my TrueNAS Scale box because every upgrade seems to force me to reinstall or run migration scripts. If I could, I might be interested in moving from my big 2U server down to this, but I worry about it not having ECC RAM for a NAS style application. What card did you end up going with for connecting to your disk shelf and how is it working out for you?
I got mine in the mail about a week ago. Just getting around to setting it up last night. Looks like i'm going with Proxmox, the obvious choice. I already have a Dell Poweredge T30 i'm running Ubuntu server/Casa OS on for now. That server also has an RTX 2070 im about to start using for AI inference. Agreed on VMware. Shame because most companies I have worked at were ESXi shops and I use the pro workstation client on my own personal rig. Those days are quickly ending and the days of mastering Proxmox are before me. I've been quickly migrating away from the NT platform anyways, so this is just one more reason i'm glad I decided to focus on Linux much more.
A year ago I mentioned to Minisforum if they could build a minipc with 10gb support and now they have a SFP+ minipc. This is even beter in combination with Unifi aggregation switch. So the MS-01 is also on my wishlist. I now have a minisforum UM773 running Proxmox. I also like to build a cluster with this MS-01. Look forward to your findings!! I like homelab stuff, Linux stuff! :)
This will be connected to one of my UniFi Aggregation switches :D
I bought an MS-01 myself in January, but unfortunately the PC has not yet been delivered. In the meantime, I have been getting to grips with Proxmox. The waiting time was and is very instructive for me. At the moment I'm still struggling with consistent PCIe/iGPU passthrough. I would be interested in more videos on this topic in particular.
Yeah stock levels for the MS-01 has been all over the place from what I hear. I'm happy to dive into some more Proxmox stuff if thats what people want to see. For that stuff though I will probably build a staging server to sit in the rack for tinkering.
@@GearSeekers Proxmox and XCP-ng. I would love to see more of them on this box.
i saw somewhere else that there is a 'extra' fan connector onboard, somewhere next to the SSD socket area, and beneath the metal bracket/ frame. I would like to know if there are any 'easy' way to unscrew / unclip the bracket/ casing/ frame to access it??
Yeah, I'm thinking it would make a good Proxmox server. I would be more interested in the barebones version since I would prefer to supply my own parts for everything else and I don't need the M$ license. I was already interested with dual 2.5G but dual SFP+ - yeah, putting on my wish list for sure.
Thanks for the informative review! I was just alerted that my three MS-01's shipped like 20 minutes ago! Ordered them on Feb 13. BTW, you can do 2 x 48GB DDR5 sticks in this machine - it supports up to 96GB of DDR5 total. I'm planning to run a high availability CEPH cluster in the ring configuration adding a Quad Port 10Gb SFP+ Ethernet card to each. These are a dream come true for my homelab.
I did mention that the RAM goes up to 96GB ;)
Very keen to hear how it all works out!
I switched from esxi to proxmox and did not regret it. There is now also an easy way to import vmware machines to proxmox so it’s a no brainer. VMware was good but it’s not anymore . You are right on this
I use currently Orange Pi 5. But certainly this box can do much more high weight lifting. I wish they provided also SD card slot.
fwiw i run a ubuntu vm
it's main purpose is to run docker for plex and portainer right now
across all 16 cores of my nuc 13pro
without any issues
WHich Hypervisor do you recommend on MS-01 PC?
Can you do a follow up video on bonding the two network ports together, especially the fiber channel sfp+? Will we get double the throughput?
Also could you demonstrate how to setup to leverage Intel vPro in this system via wifi?
Thx
We did a follow up a few weeks back. This system has been moved into production 😞 I'll see if we can get another one
PUMPED FOR THIS
I'm running esxi in my home lab so looking for alternatives too. Would be interested if anyone has successfully passed through usb tv tuners to a vm with proxmox or any other hypervisor. Esxi was always problematic (too much jitter, even if giving the vm highest priority).
I have an MS-01 on order, along with 96GB RAM, three M.2 SSDs (one for boot in slot 3, and two for storage in the faster slots). I also have an Nvidia T600 coming to pass through to a Windows VM for Plex transcoding. The hypervisor will be ESXi 8.02. VMware is what I do.
I have a question for you. There are three possible states, as I understand it, regarding running ESXi with the bigLITTLE CPU: You can tell ESXi to ignore the different core types. I don't like that approach as I don't know what's being assigned to my VMs and performance may be unpredictable. You can disable E-cores and use only P-cores and their hyperthreads. This is the approach I am taking with another machine and which I thought I would take with the MS-01. Then I read about a third approach: Turning off the P-cores. When this is done, I read the E-cores gain hyperthreading ability.
So, my question is: Is the machine better run/faster with only P-cores and hyperthreads running, or with only E-cores ... and hyperthreads ... running? ESXi, about 30 VMs, mixed Windows, Photon, and other.
Fully utilized threads on hyper-threaded P-cores will have very similar performance as single E-core. But question is: how often do you have fully utilized core? Probably almost never so you will have more power on P-cores...
Also: I wouldn't go with ESXi - especially right now when there's no free version anymore. I don't know ESXi, but you should be able to pin VM to specific CPUs. You can do that in Proxmox, you could do that 8 years ago in XenServer and you can do this in basic QEMU-KVM so I assume - ESXi should also allow to do that - so you can force specific VMs to run on P-cores without actually losing E-cores if some reason you would need them.
@@morsikpl You can pin a VM to specific CPUs in ESXi, but it's not something I've evern done. I wouldn't try to out-guess the hypervisor where scheduling is concerned.
I am going to start by disabling the E-cores to see if there is enough oomph left in the machine to serve all my VMs, none of which are particularly busy and non, as far as I am aware, are overprivisioned, CPU-wise.
Using anything other than ESXi is a non-starter. I don't use the free version (though I took the chance to download it, with keys, when they announced it was going away). I have nine fully-licensed boxes, with vCenter, etc. Four of those little servers are a vSAN cluster, three more are a "remote" cluster for purposes of vSphere replication and SRM.
Horizon VDI runs on the main server as well as on the vSAN and remote clusters. Then there's another, even bigger machine, that powered off most of the time for reasons of economy.
I am certified in vSphere and Horizon, have been working with the former for about two decades, and it's what I do for a living. It's what drove me to create the home lab in the first place.
Again, I much appreciate your reply.
Never used vmware. I started my virtualization with Xen, long time ago, then moved to kvm, and now mostly proxmox. Never needed to deal with esxi crap. Never seen any reason or learn it, when I had Xen and later kvm.
Computer is pretty nice, but I am not so sure about cooling of the extra PCIe slot.
Still what is out of the box, with 10G SFP+, that is already pretty good. You pay for it, but nice to have a compact package.
Can this be setup as a NAS?
Sorry but your recommendation is bad. Get the 12900 barebones and add your own RAM. You’ll still be way ahead.
I am pretty sure he got sponsored by them… that’s why he is advertising it because he took the sponsorship deal
I am more partial to Proxmox myself.
ESXI is a dying breed.
It's really disappointing that Broadcom did what they did.
Proxmox has huge ammount of support and growth lately, especially for professionals. @@GearSeekers
I am just waiting for some big dog to buy them off.
Didn't Jeff post a video about how to make Proxmox work with hybrid cpus w/o setting core affinities?
Yeah but thats only proxmox
@@GearSeekers Still an important point, is it not?
One more reason to use it, even if pcie pass-through is a tad more fiddly
ETA Prime made a gaming PC out of this, now Hardware Haven and others like Jeff Geerling is now interested in its homelab ability😀
Unfortunately, for what I do with my homelab, a system like this will NOT be able to replace my other systems.
It doesn't have ANY PCIe x16 slots (physically x16, electrically x16).
If the chassis had been a little bit taller so that it would at LEAST be able to accommodate an A2000, then it might have been a possibility, but given that said A2000 won't fit in it, that's a no-go for me.
Proxmox ftw! Get a few of these units, fill up those long lasting nvmes, fill up those rams 96gb per units and u have yourself a silent home data centre 😁😁😁
One question I have is the Power supply for this the MiniForums web site only focuses on UK or US power so how did you get one for Australia
The power supply uses a regular IEC C13 cable. Any PC power cable will work
What transceivers work on this for the 10gb ? Thanks for the review!
I've tested Juniper, QSFPTek, 10Gtek, and Ubiquiti and all seem to work. The X710 isn't as picky as something like a X520
@@GearSeekers Does this cover RJ45 copper? Thanks for the list. Ive used QSFPTek before
Cluster cluster cluster 🙏
It's nice but at nearly $700 in barebone configuration, it's expensive. I can get something better for less
But but the form factor 🥺
$550 for the barebones 12900h seems reasonable. It's hard to justify $130 more for the 13900h when the only differences are clocks and cache.
hi good video 😀 Do you know of a place where it is described how to get started with Intel vPro on ms-01. have loaded and installed MeshCommander. But how do I connect to ms-01? where do I find the IP address and is there a username and password?
You'll need to turn on Intel AMT in the BIOS
no ECC ram, no sr-iov on the 2.5GB eth ports. No deal.
Dual multigig AND dual 10 gig!!!! My bank account is terrified 😂😂😂😂
I assume this is too expensive to use as a transparency filter bridge thtough pfsense... but that 10g though.
The Forbidden Router!
I know how you feel being a network guy, x.25 gone, asynchronous transfer mode gone, Frame relay gone. DMS250 gone, smartjack, 1/0 dacs, wb dacs, all gone.. Showing my age. lol.
How you gonna use the TB4 ports?
Don't know what he'll use them for but I could see myself buying a TB RAID enclosure instead of an add-in card + a disk shelf.
I also think this is a great box, issue is Intel CPU with its performance and efficiency cores, proxmox and Xcp-Ng doesn’t know what to do with them. Only way to get the most out of that i9 is to use Hyper-V 😢
That's why you tell them what to do with them 😉
Craft Computing has a video on this, if you install the microcode update it works fine.
@@praetorxyn I just saw that yesterday, going to try next week. Thanks!
I hope that Minisforum release subversion of it WITHOUT 10Gbps SFP+ ports but with dual slot PCie card area - for mayben an dual slot GPUs or something
I don't own one in private but we are using one as a proxy for Veeam backup at my office and i love it - but giving it outside of that use, for example -> office, production or warehouse use... it is just an overkill and waste of what it can doo
i really hope to see this miniPc with i3 / i5 configuration and just 1-2 pcie slot height area for expansion cards,
$1127.80 Canadian... I like the size but i am looking for something liter, different to watch u-tube net flix and be able to connect my personal storage drives easy on my desk. Mini ITX AMD based. Builder.!
imagine put a 1080Ti to this and play. godddddd
but i'm interested in expandable capabilities for mini server hot swappable raid disks.
Does the PCI slot support bifurcation?
Unfortunately it doesn't.
It's not the implementation overisht tho, the chipset simply doesn't support it.
I think the 12900h version is a nice sweespot
I would expect development of Proxmox to accelerate now, after Broadcom throwing most VMware users under the bus.
For such a long video it would be nice to at least know maximum read/write (with RAID or not) through 10GB fiber (which could be copper imo).
Would love to test out any possible ssd expansion card (single slot/ dual slots) on the pcie slot, which would be compatible? and do they overheat etc.
Is this compatible for video editing?
Yeah it would edit video quite well
Unraid gang! Would be cool to see it running on this 😁😁
OH MY GOD IT CAN REPLACE ALL OF OUR SERVERS!!!!!
How many hdd can i install to it?
still waiting to see someone actually use the pcie with a gpu. the claims of of using just the a2000 (mobile) single slot that you cant even easily buy turned me off from the machine.
which is apparently the only gpu supported as its "up to a2000 mobile" lol
do the cluster bro
I really want to get another for a cluster. I reckon 4 of these would be perfect. You can easily fit 2 of them on a shallow 1U shelf.
Ehhh, even with a nearly limitless tech budget I just think these are not a good value compared to what nearly a grand can put in something like a Cooler Master NR200P... I mean if you absolutely had to have something this small... I guess... maybe... but the use cases listed here generally would not be situations that require a machine this small
You answered yourself. I absolutely need something this small with Dual 10GbE SFP+
These seem like a lot of horsepower for a Home Lab. Maybe in a prosumer or small office setting they make more sense, but for the home lab I'd be more likely to spend that money on something a bit more traditional and flexible (I mean, my main server is still on a SuperMicro mATX board with an i3-4130!). With ESXi having an uncertain future, I'd consider making the move to something else. You have the hardware and time to experiment for a bit, might as well figure out a path forward before it's forced on you.
+ 1 for Proxmox!
Currently editing the 2nd part!
WARING!!! 🤣🤣🤣
Now I have to buy a cat😂
What is your personal pc specs?
Which one lol?
@@GearSeekers best one??
Di they have an AND equivalent?
Not storage server 😅
That's exactly what it's good at.
with amd cpu it would be a no brainer.
intel is better in homelabs if people want stuff like quicksync amd still behind there.
I personally use both. AMD is better for cheap hypervisor builds because of the integrated graphics and also all cores being equal. Stuff like the 5600G and 5700G are great for tinkering. Currently our main hypervisor is running on an i7 12700 on ESXi 8.02 U5 with E-Core disabled. The same install has run on the Ryzen 5 Pro 5650G with no issues. The main limitation was PCIe 4.0 which is why I switched it to the 12700 a few years back. Before that though the whole thing was running on a Threadripper 3970X but the power usage and heat was overwhelming for the rack.
For home usage just buy used Dell for cheap…. Sure if you want to burn money can spend on overpriced toys like minisforum products.
Just bought this for $560!
GMKtec K6 Gaming Mini PC Windows 11 Pro Dual LAN 2.5Gbps AMD Ryzen 7 7840HS Desktop Computer, 32GB DDR5 Dual Channel (16GB*2) 1TB PCIe4.0 SSD, USB4.0, HDMI, DP, USB-C, WiFi 6E, BT 5.2
Everyone I have read about, including me with the guts to try one of these Chinese machines, is sending them all back where they came from. Videographers on here need to buckle up and skip the ad fees from these companies and review something more Free World. We are all being scammed and CZcamsrs aren't helping.
I see some pretty dumb comments and this is easily up there with the dumbest.
@@GearSeekers when you don’t have any facts, call them names. Now that’s dumb.
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++ Homelab content
No way. I dont trust that rinky dink slider to not fry my THREE nvme drives with an accidental flip. Pass on this.
You would only fry the drive nearest the switch :)
@@rogerthomas7040 I thought it changes the power delivery to all of the drives.