Fender high mass bass bridge upgrade, but not for the reason you think! Sustain myths exposed!
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- čas přidán 5. 07. 2024
- Upgrading a Fender Vintera with a high-mass bridge, but not to increase sustain- also an exploration of some concepts relating to sustain, a few of which I consider to be myths.
I'm sorry for the terrible lighting issues!!! - Hudba
Great job explaining your views. 👍
I use a vintage threaded saddle bridge for my main Precision because of the adjustable string spacing ability. I never once thought about the whole string-to-saddle contact point thing you brought up at the beginning of the video.
Mindblown.
Recently put a Fender high mass bridge on an old, cheap Japanese bass from the 70s. Bought more for the aesthetic and it was a clear upgrade on what was on it
Stays in tune way better and feels better to play. the saddles don't move and feel much more stable. Definitely has a bit more punch and feels tighter. No dramatic change in tone or sustain but I would still consider it an improvement and, I my case anyway, well worth the money spent.
Great job. I agree with all your reasons for upgrading/changing bridges. I think too many people upgrade bridges for aesthetics.
I’m getting string rattle from the bridge on my new Squire Bronco (upgrade project) Bass. It appears to be coming from the D string. Thanks! ✌️🙂🎻😎
Great video. Lots of insight.
I 100% agree with you the base of the bridge that has nothing to do with your tongue. It’s all about the saddles, whether they are steel or brass.
In my old age I’m a builder,
but 10-12 years ago as a “super modder”
I “Jockoed” an old P bass I had and loved the heck out of it.
Just a month ago I decided to go through it from top to bottom and reset everything, and while doing it I decided to get the action down as low as I could.
Well,
I couldn’t get the action down as far as I wanted with the stock barrel type bridge, so I went to a high mass for no other reason than it will go lower than stock.
I fully agree about sustain not being increased by high mass and brass.
How does it affect intonation ?
@@christopherrodarte9822 it doesn’t. Of course, when you make changes to the instrument and just periodically due to time, weather, humidity ect. you go through and check “setup”.
If you are simply changing to a different bridge, one thing it pays to know in advance is the spec’s.
I just watched a video of a guy who changed to a high mass, and it was so different than his stock bridge, that it wasn’t able to be adjusted low enough so he was stuck with an obnoxiously high string height.
So that’s good to know.
You are right but the bass looks cooler with those bridges
I see people going crazy after high-mass bridges, talking about a sustain they aren't able to hear, but I rarely see people touching upon an actually relevant aspect of installing a high-mass bridge (you almost got into that but didn't expand or reflect on much about) - balance. Expensive basses have high masses bridges plus lightweight tuners to improve balance by reducing neck dive.
Great video, I've heard numerous comparisons between high mass, and standard ones, and I can't hear any significance between the two. If players want a high mass bridge for looks I think that's ok, but don't expect any major sound difference. What did make a difference was putting some new Rotosound RS66LF strings on, they gave me the punch and low end growl that I wanted.
I'm a guitar player but just recently bought a Squire Classic Vibe 60's jazz. I think that I could change the bridge to the Fender high mass bridge. The only thing I can think of is, will not the screw holes be somewhat stripped from the old screws?
great explination
I have two of the original Leo Quan ba 2 bridges that are factory slotted. I think these are the best. I dont like the kickass bridges because of the small saddle inserts that are a separate piece where you lose vibration. And there isn't enough room for proper intonation adjustments. The omega bridges look like a good design. BTW I agree with your thoughts
I find the saddle width adjustment to be a bit excessive on the Kickass as well, though I don't think there is any loss of vibration there, and if it is it would be minimal. I've played basses with them and there was no evident loss of sustain or weakness to the notes, so to speak. That is just my opinion though. The Leo Quann is certainly a great bridge. I've owned a few and liked them. Thank you for your comment. I appreciate your point of view.
The other contact point is the nut, not the tuners, though.
I put a high mass bridge in my jazz bass. There was no tonal change or extra sustain compared to the stock bridge. However, it has not sharp edges so it’s staying installed.
Good day Matt, I need your opinion to help me with my Fender Elite Jazz Bass. It sounds kind of farty with no sustain, I used many string brands and styles from rounds to flats and gages 43-100 through 50-105 and still the same results, farty with no sustain. Please be open and free with your opinion I could really benefit from your experience to help me solve this issue.
My first question is how does it feel set up wise unplugged? Does it feel snappy and with good sustain? If the set up is good and everything seems right in that regard, my next concern (and the likely culprit) would be your pickup height. If the pickups are too high they will sound clippy and noisy. If they are too low (which I suspect) they will sound weak and your notes will never sustain enough. I don't use any particular measurements for pickup height because pickups have different magnetic pulls and resistances, so the sweet spot will vary with different pickups. Try moving your pickups higher and lower to see if you find a fix that way, provided the physics side of your bass is good. Thats probably the best diagnosis I can give from here without seeing, hearing, and playing your bass. Thanks for the question!
I agree very much , there is so much BS in this area, material, weight etc😊
Great job. just ordered one. Did you have to shim the neck at the heel?
I had to with mine but I think it would vary from bass to bass.
@@martyrocks2091 yeah wasn't necessary on mine, worked out great. cheers
the 'tone' is made with the fingers, that is a very big part in the sound you produce, the rest is just gear
Been a bassist since 1969 and IMO sustain or lack thereof is mostly related to the wood in the neck and how it mates with the body wood. A good example is when Fender went to the large headstock on the Strat. That change gave the Strat a fatter tone with more sustain. I've always felt the same about a Tele bass versus a P or J. The bigger headstock had a bit more sustain. But when it comes to a bass, the technique of muting with both hands is very important. A bass can get muddy and loose definition really fast without a proper muting technique. So is sustain really something that's highly desired in a bass when you're pretty much muting all the time anyways? Again like you this is just my opinion. Others may disagree and that s fine. The real advantage to any high mass bridge is stability over sustain I think.
That’s the whole video
Finally someone who gets to the brass tacks on bass myths and reality. Thank you, Meko.
Did you have to shim the neck? I’ve always heard you had to with the upgrade. The bridge is thicker then the bent plate
Its not a myth, but rock on Dude
I believe the Packers need more sustain that that P bass.
Just get the gotoh high mass bridge.
That's not true...I didn't know anything about bridges, I was taking parts from one bass to another and I replaced a Mexican fender bridge with a bad ass two bridge, and the increase in volune unplugged and sustain was noticable...had to be a 25 to 30 percent increase...I was amazed because it was unexpected
Hello I just wanted to add my opinion on this. Your illustration of the round saddle with string is a bit off. The saddles all have the same large groove and all are larger than the strings. This leads to a single point of string contact. Most guitar saddles use a V shaped saddle, not all. That gives the strings two points of contact and no way to move vertically. My Fender Pro II came with the high mass bridge but also some nice saddles that have multiple groves for adjusting string spacing for your personal preference. It’s the same principle found on old Fenders that used a threaded piece for a saddle, it worked.
not a fan of this "upgrade" as you lose the option of string through body... the precision american standard bridge gives you the string through body option with a higher mass than the smaller bridge. Higher mass bridges and string through body does affect tone.
The difference between guitar and bass is sustain in the bass end of the register isn't melodic. Legato bass is tricky. A tuba quartet is never as lovely as four human voices across the full range of possible octaves... The top 3 strings of a Bass VI may be capable of that sort of melodic sound, but the business end no. 4 strings the sustain is there on the E and A with these bridges and more: folks call it resonance but it's actually increased string harmonics. The resonant frequencies in the body and neck of the bass put that energy back into the string excursion, hence the longer time interval of that string excursion. The greater the range of resonant frequencies in the wood results in increased string harmonics.
Re: mass it's the same with Les Paul tailpieces, the actual upgrade is lower weight. Aluminum transfers resonance faster than all other inexpensive alloys and steel. Zinc is gummy compared to brass and steel and soaks up string excursion energy. All cast "hi-mass" bridges are far more rigid than bent steel which isolates string energy. The one old style saddle bridge that's worth the money is the Albridge with bell bronze saddles, the full contact options are 2, Babicz and KSM. The Babicz is considerably more ugly, the KSM *can* be visually doable on a vintage pr vintage styled intrument but is the most expensive option short of the $400 Kahler tremolo bridge.
What's odd is most high mass bridges will extend the sustain and increase the harmonics of the E and A strings but damp the D and G, I've measured. I believe it's basically because the greater string energy in the E and A can overcome the weight of a heavy bridge, simple as that. The Albridge rings thru all 4 strings, as does the KSM, the Albridge has an aluminum plate, the KSM is entirely aircraft aluminum except the clamp bar and intonation screws. I found a used KSM for $125 but only after many many months of searching. It's on my PJ partscaster with a Klein Epic '59 split coil and a Klein Epic '64 single coil, Thomastik Infeld flats and a Fender Standard rosewood Jazz neck. With the KSM it's a universe away from the threaded nickel saddle vintage bridge BUT the coolest part of playing this thing is guiding it back the original thunk: with sufficient muting I can shorten the decay but the transients have way more bloom, I don't have to correct being buried in the mix with boost pedals or gain, it's like a built presence switch. And in cases when I'm trying for my best upright emulations I'm a universe closer than I've ever been.
It can take a while to get where you want, you have to take on everything that leaches string energy and consider everything that increases string excursion harmonics. Even the dead frets on the G can be cured, it's all about coupling mass to the headstock and whether you go heavy or light. Players used to screw lflat ead fishing weights to the back of the headstock on the other side the string tree. You can test this easily: press the end of your headstock against a wall at 90 degrees and play the 5th 6th and 7th fret notes on the G, the dead notes will have normal sustain because you've coupled your peghead to the mass of the wall. Reducing mass often works as well, hence Hipshot Ultralite tuners. Also make sure your neck screw threads aren't tight in the body holes, they should either *just* stay in place when you remove the neck or fall out. This way the connecting force of the screw head is tranferred to the neck plate and the neck is actually coupled to the body. Make sure no more than half the diameter of your strings rest in the nut grooves, sand down the top of your nut until you get there. Make sure your nut grooves give you .022 to .018 at the first fret, set the whole instrument up to Fender spec to start. Do at least 3 string wraps on the tuner posts, 4 on the A if you don't have the "stealth" string tree on the A, so the strings won't slip and so they're seated against the witness points in the nut grooves. All these little things add up.
All that said I'm also on board with playing within the limits of what Leo originally designed and as far as he took things up to CBS interloping around '64. I don't have $10K for a '59 P but I do have $150 for a split coil from Klein or Curtis Novak or The Creamery and $60 for La Bellas and your Vintera is fantastic starting point. Try a Curtis Novak PB-Fat, even though the machine wound Vintera pick-up is a keeper. Get a dirt pedal like the JHS Crayon or the TC Electronic MojoMojo and wake it up!
Packers suck