The Treacherous Sudoku
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- čas přidán 17. 05. 2024
- ** ISLANDS OF INSIGHT STREAM TONIGHT **
We're going to risk streaming this game, which sounds so perfect for the channel. Tonight at 10pm UK time - we'd love to have your company! You can watch it here:
czcams.com/users/livenGgZYUt1zpg
** TODAY'S PUZZLE **
We have had a whole host of recommendations to try this puzzle by blackjackfitz called Duplicates. It's got a fascinating (and brain-breaking) ruleset but it's a LOT of fun to solve. Just remember, sudoku isn't always your friend!
Have a go at the puzzle here:
sudokupad.app/jdcz0c4rtb
Rules:
Fill each cell with a digit from 1 to 9. For every row 'n' and column 'n' there are exactly 'n' unique digits present. The remaining cells are filled with duplicates. e.g. Row 3 could be filled (1,2,7,1,2,7,7,7,7) containing 3 unique digits. Digits in a cage do not repeat and sum to the number in the top left hand corner of the cage, if given. Digits separated by a white dot are consecutive. Digits separated by a blue diamond are duplicates (i.e. the same). Not all dots or diamonds are given.
** PATREON REWARD DAY **
Yesterday we published a new sudoku hunt, Evening Attractions, themed around Negative Constraints as our March competition.
They'll also be a bonus crossword video from Simon and his solve of Region Geometry by Emre Kolotoğlu (3hr 36min long...!) released over the weekend. And Simon's discussion video about Dean Mayer's Sunday Times crossword from last weekend will appear at 1minute past midnight on Sunday morning (which is the moment that competition has ended.)
/ crackingthecryptic
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▶ Contents Of This Video ◀
0:00 Theme music & puzzle intro
1:21 Islands Of Insight Stream TONIGHT
2:07 Simon's 3.5hr Solve
3:33 Happy Birthdays
4:07 Rules
6:20 Start of Solve: Let's Get Cracking
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I don’t think I’ve ever yelled “row 7 already has 3 greens” before. What fun! I love these videos because I can feel good about the tiniest deductions on puzzles completely beyond me. Thanks Simon and blackjackfitz for this gem.
Yes! Totally feel the same way.
It's funny cause I used a completely different deduction for the exact same result. Instead of counting greens, I just realized that if row 7 had an orange that wasn't in column 2, then it would be impossible to disambiguate r7c2, and the puzzle wouldn't have a unique solution. Was easy to put blue in r7c4 after that.
Thank you so much for featuring this puzzle, this one was a joy to set! It is actually the second puzzle I set with this ruleset, the other is called "Repeat" on LMD if anyone is interested ; ). It is a really curious ruleset but also quite hard to set. Since you can't really do sudoku you need a clue in practically every cell. So, the first puzzle I set with these rules ended up being really cluttered and looked like a Jackson Pollock. It occurred to me that Killer Cages were the way to put clues into most cells without it looking like the grid was over clued and so Duplicates was born.
I want to note that I did make a small change to the puzzle this morning (my time) apparently after you recorded a solve but before the feature went live. None of the logic changed but I switched all of the numbers for their inverse digit, i.e. 1's became 9's and 2's became 8's etc. I wanted 7's and 3's to swap... Unfortunately, that means that if you click the link in the video description and solve the puzzle from there and then go to LMD to enter the solution code it will be wrong. To put in the correct code just take 10 - each digit in the code. So if the code was 1 - 2 - 3 put in 9 - 8 - 7. Sorry for the confusion, just unlucky timing really.
Anyway, I'm so grateful to everyone who solved and recommended this puzzle. This is the best community on the internet and I'm so happy to be a part of it, cheers!
Quite an innovative and smart contribution. Thank you. Well done.
Really interesting puzzle! I used placeholder digits and colouring, but did have to be very careful to remember they were placeholders particularly towards the end when I started deducing what they really were. (90 minutes.)
Such a bummer your update was too late for Simon. Imagine the joy of having three 3’s in the corner. 😂 Not sure Simon could have handled that!
@@mikaelnyberg8669 it pains me to think what might have been
I came here having had so much fun solving Noughts and Crosses. This was equally excellent, thank you and well done!
The only time I’ve seen Simon relieved when he gets to do sudoku 🤣🤣🤣
"The sudoku in spite of itself."
9:26 that logic was so clever. I like the rules of this puzzle.
That was absolutely magical 😍 - although I'm usually a fan of colouring 🎨, I think this one was easier to follow using letters.
I start to put numbers in once I'd first worked out a couple of them, but quicker scrapped that and went back to letters until i had almost completely resolved the letters.
Completed in just under an hour 👍🏻
Me too. I’m colour blind and could not cope with Simon’s multiplicity of colours. 1:12:27
59:10 deducing the numbers are "a grey and a 2". The random slips are funny as we all know he means something else, including him. It's funny how the mind works.
I loved at 46:35, when he started coloring row 5 and says "this would be yellow, lime green, black, red (as he enters blue), and blue (as he enters dark green)" and then he goes to eliminate options by looking at column 9 and says "this one can't be red (as he removes dark green) or blue". He "caught" himself on the red, but I thought the whole thing was funny.
What an amazing puzzle! I love colouring ones, and this one was breaking my brain in the best way haha 🌱
I know Simon likes to avoid "uniqueness" as much as possible in his solves, but I noticed an interesting way to disambiguate r6c4 and r7c4 at around 42:52.
Consider r7c2. If row 7 contains a single 3 in any column besides column 2, then r7c2 becomes impossible to disambiguate, and the puzzle is no longer uniquely solvable as both green and orange would be valid entries.
We know this puzzle has a single valid solution, so we can safely remove 3 as a candidate from the remainder of row 7. If row 7 has a 3, it can only have one and it must be in column 2.
That means r7c4 is blue and r6c3 is 3. I used this in my solve, but I still feel kind of dirty for it.
"We know this puzzle has a single valid solution" is the key to your whole (very clear and excellent) description. Simon (and Mark) want to prove that the puzzle has only one solution, so they don't use uniqueness as a way to solve (because it assumes a unique solution). I usually try to stop myself from using uniqueness in my own solves because I like to pretend I'm as smart as Simon and Mark - no, no, that's not it! it's because I like to do the rigorous logic, also! But there are certainly times when I use it out of expediency.
What a fun (and daunting!) rule set!
Anyone else start these videos feeling so much better because of Simon's smile and infectious joy! Thank you so much! 😊
Finished in 38:50. While the rules seem complex, I had a feeling that it would lead to some pretty straightforward logic, and for the most part it was pretty straightforward. I loved the use of killer cages and the unique digits constraints to work together for most of the puzzle. And the only non-straightforward part involved the numbers in the 25 mid cage which with the uniqueness constraint made for a interesting solve which almost made me restart from the beginning until I realized that the offending number could be another number instead of being a specific one.
Fun puzzle!
This one was fun to try it. Altought I needed a lot of your help! Thanks
I think this would be an interesting one to see if Simon and Mark solve it in particularly different ways. I'm not sure if they would, but the amount of colours Simon was putting into a single cell reminds me of the pencil Mark-ing that Mark sometimes gets teased for. But because Simon did it with colours and not numbers it maybe seemed less "egregious" (hyperbole). I wonder if Mark would have ended up with a less colourful, yet similarly pencil marked grid
just got done watching yesterday's video, brilliant timing
I had to turn my brain inside out to figure out the ending with 4/6/9. Simon found that much more easily! Great puzzle.
Around 18:00, the way to solve the colours in box 31 is to notice that row 4 already already has the uniquely imposed colours green (R4C1), red (R4C4) and grey or orange (R4C5). Green, nor grey nor orange can repeat in box 31, so box 31 must contains red and a new colour.
That could not repeat on column 4 aroun 28:00 because it is missing the equivalent of R4C5 and only has 2 unique colours.
Whoah, brain had to work hard! 47:14 for me, but what an interesting ruleset, took some getting used to.
Don’t you just hate it when you explore one possible solution through dozens and dozens of steps and end up (accidentally) with the correct solution. Then you’re torn between leaving a finished grid or undoing everything to double-check that the alternative path definitely breaks 😂 101:17
After about five steps I declare that path "plausible" and go back to attempt disproving the other options instead. Anything else is too close to bifurcation for me.
What a interesting and fun puzzle!
Another very innovative concept, thanks. I slipped up towards the end, but fortunately wasn't too serious. Plenty of scope (for me) to mess things up by forgetting you can and must have duplicates, and by losing track of colours.
2h18m to solve after following one major blind alley...what a blast! Instead of using the V pentomino at upper left, I made the most progress by focusing on r3 of the 31-cage being the 5th and 6th unique digits (which later turned out to be a literal 56 pair) and eliminating possibilities in the more constrained rows and columns.
What a 'mutant ninja' of a puzzle. Not a true sudoku, but we need more 'outside the box' stuff like this...excellent....
That was certainly interesting. I enjoyed watching you solve it and I do understand it ... and I even have this odd feeling that I could solve it myself (having watched you do it). I just might try it sometime soon. Thanks for doing it, Simon - and for the stream, which was very fun!
I already did this one. This was an incredible puzzle with a unique concept and a lot of logic extracted from it. I am pretty picky when it comes to coloring puzzles, but I very much enjoyed this. Well set.
What a crazy puzzle. I needed a little help at the beginning and then it was quite difficult yet but very exciting as well.
Hehe this comment section is just my absolute favorite. Everyone just, "wowie what fun this was!! So clever!! I had a great time finishing it myself" (or) "woah this logic was so clever! I couldn't do it on my own but holy moly! What a great ruleset!!"
So lovely and wholesome. This is my favorite corner of the internet
This puzzle is very unique, thank you.
I'm only 40 minutes in, but I do find it curious how many mini-breakthroughs have occurred along the negative diagonal - r1c1 to start; then r2c2; r3c3; r4c4; then r7c7
I got 199 minutes. I had colored everything about 120 minutes in and as I was going to finish found that I had broken the puzzle. I started over by highlighting the cells instead of using the reset button. After I completed the puzzle, I decided to see if I could go back to my previous work since I didn't overwrite it with a restart. It turns out thanks to Sven's software (Awesome Software!), you can rewind through quite a lot. Everything was correct except for two cells; I had made a terrible error where I put in a red cell and eliminated it from a cell in the same row, undeservingly. Quite a dumb error that wasted nearly 80 minutes redoing it. This puzzle was really good, though. I had a blast doing it!
That was fun 😄 43 minutes for me. Thanks for sharing it.
That was BRUTAL. Over 2 hours for me to complete. Watching Simon's solve, it took me WAY longer to figure out that the box at 2x2 had to have the 4 possible colors, but I was much faster to come up with the 3 greens in line 7 than him.
An excellent love, and a beautiful puzzle.
2 hours 16 minutes for me. Haven't watched the video, but wanted to comment since so many people finish super fast and I always feel so slow 😂
That was pretty interesting. Took a bit of staring at it before I understood the full extent of the restrictions but wasn't too bad if you can keep the coloring from confusing you. No clue what my time was, I had to leave for a couple of hours and left the puzzle up.
This was a fascinating puzzle. A long solve, but really interesting.
fairly early on you just barely missed that green couldnt be in the bottom right 35 cage ever so the missing digits are {7/8,3/2} which means blue must appear in the bottom row of that cage resolving the blue gray in r9c3. More progress could be made from there im sure. great solve as always.
Imagine if the first row/collumn was a 3
3 3's in the corner
1:03:46 Shouting at the monitor since ages!!! LOL 7 green already repeated in row 8, all colors different, you know them, pink, lime green and yellow missing, yellow can't be in c7, so it's (4 yellow) in c8 and pink (6) in c7 (or lime green each).
1:09:07
Simon: "It's quite hard to finish this"
Me, shouting at the screen: "Just place the 8 in row nine already!!!"
(I would have no clue how to solve this puzzle myself, Simon is being brilliant both solving and explaining, I'm just baffled that it always seems to be normal sudoku tripping him up 😂)
And he places the 8 as the very last even! I can't 😂❤
The end of that really stumped me. I figured it out by basically trying everything but I really couldn’t grasp on to WHY it had to be that way. I did really love the puzzle overall anything that makes me color the rainbow is going to bring a spark of joy.
The key to unwinding the end is to realize that R8C8 has to go into the 9 cell W cage. But by this point you can do sudoku virtually everywhere so it has to be the same as R5C9, which also has to go in the 35 cage in R9C7.
That all sounds complicated but when I set this I actually colored this part in very early, well before figuring out the middle parts of the grid. I think if you put the last three colors into C9 instead of R5 it is easier to see.
Anyway, glad you enjoyed the puzzle : )
Nice solve, Simon.
Reminds me of game-of-life(or other fractal esque layerings...)
Very fun coloring puzzle bouncing around discovering color to letter maps.
So mad at how easily he placed 2/3... I had to
1) fill 3 quadrants w colorings
2). Discover 1 special digits diff of 2 sums
3) discover 2nd digit w diff of 3rd sum
4) got stuck after 3 quadrants till i rememebered the 17/18 sum
5) come watch after to see how easily he placed 2/3....
3)
1:04:07 for me. It is a very refreshing ruleset. And I was so happy when I could finally do some sudoku in row and column 9 😂
30:50 Well done Simons brain - orange was right 🎉
Maybe this was the wrong way to do the puzzle, but I REALLY enjoyed coloring the *entire* grid before doing anything with numbers. There was only one tiny deduction at the very very end that required numbers, as far as I could tell!
That was how I set it, almost the whole grid was colors before I put any cage totals in
Took me a little over 2 hours which I consider good since it only took me a half hour longer than Simon to figure out where to start. Was really fun either way.
1:05:14 I feel like this is an example the perils of jumping back and forth between using colors and digits in the solve rather than taking a moment to convert all the color marks to numerical pencil marks once the color identities are known and then solving with the numbers alone - using two separate pencil marking modalities to reflect the same thing obfuscated the fact that at this point r5c8 is simultaneously 38 using the numbers and 489 using the colors, and therefore must be 8 as the sole overlap of those two markings...
I've heard of people hating on your dark green, but I find it great.
Finished this in 33:26, and could've been faster if I didn't fail basic addition and put a 7 instead of a 9... This one feels super intuitive compared to your other 1 hour+ ones on your channel.
It took me just over 2 hours, mostly because I apparently cannot count how many digits are in a column correctly.
I used letters instead of of colors in this one and was glad I did 😂
Oh wow!
I believe that says it all! 😸💙
I'm surprised I made a deduction that Simon didn't really early on, that column 2 row 9 must be orange because each digit in that row must be unique
Part of me wonders if it would be possible to start coloring the bottom row first and go up
48:22 finish. This was like pulling teeth. Every step was carefully planned out, but lots of fun!
Be interesting to use this logic as a pattern generator
I usually prefer using colors but for some reason letters worked a lot better for me in this one. Anyone else get that?
I had both letters and colors going...and at one point I had letter pairs CD I couldn't disambiguate with colors bc they were already "orange/grey" from other deduction chains, so I "flashed" them with 0 & 1 corner marks to track them around the grid. Usually when I get that deep into complexity I break something or it gets me nowhere, but this time it resolved a crucial piece of logic.
Yes. Letters much better. Colourblind!
this was very fun to solve. But I had to constantly remind myself not to use sudoku rules
I never heard simon say:" I wnna do sudoku'" before (:
I missed a lot of the puzzles from the past month. I can't access sudokupad links, so I've not been able to do any of Simon's puzzles. Then I realised that the part of the URL after the / can also be used on crackingthecryptic, so I've been trying to catch up since.
I don't agree with either of the titles, neither the original "traitorous" nor "treacherous". It was just a thoroughly enjoyable puzzle. The cages were very cleverly set, so they enabled digits to be assigned, but left a bit of ambiguity to be resolved later. I disagree that it becomes a sudoku. It's just that sudoku logic skills can be applied later on. You can't really call "making sure every cell in a cage is different" sudoku.
@ 16:36 - "Ohh! It's so confusing" - try looking at R9 and C9. They have no repeats, so you can take green out of any other cells. Once you've applied that knowledge, you can look at R8 and C8, because they now have two greens, so all the rest are different, and not green. This means you can place green in the 9-cell zig-zag cage. Now R7 has three greens, so all of its remaining colours are different and not green too.
@ 21:23 - "How does this ever get resolved?" - if you place the green in the zig zag cage, there can be no more repeats in the row, so that cell you're looking at cannot be green.
@ 23:53 - "That is a 2 or a 3" - No, it's a 3, and the digit to its left is a 2. Eight minutes later, you finally get it.
@ 44:18 - "How are we going to work out what gets missed out of this 35 cage?" - Well, you (should) know that green must be missed out, so the other digit is either 2 or 3. You're not quite at the stage where you can tell, but once you place the 3 in the 25 cage 3 is ruled out from every cell, so it's missing 3 and 7, so green is 7, and blue is 8.
has it ever been the case we have not liked a long puzzle
16:52 What I think Simon is very close to here then backs away from - in row 4 there are 4 colors, and we roughly know three of them - definitely green and red, plus one more that's either orange or grey (from r4c5). But the 31 cage already has green, grey, blue and orange, and those last two cells can't both be new colors without placing too many colors in the row, and so therefore must be red and a new color.
(Going this route versus the one later taken using the V-shaped cage has the additional benefit of ruling blue out of r4c3)
The less like Sudoku a puzzle is, the more I feel like I can make deductions about it before Simon! I felt like Simon was way too determined to do Sudoku in this one and it got in his way a bit!
Ho boy. Three restarts over two days, but I finally got it.
This just feels like it's gonna be a screamer
Good solve. I, personally, only did the tiniest bit of screaming.
Is sudokupad not loading for anyone else? I'm just getting time-out errors every time I try to open it
Yes, same problem here.
At the 18 minute mark Simon is missing a big clue that row and column 9 can only have a color in it once.
For the stream: I think we should spend some time up front helping you get the graphics and the motion and fov to a good place.
107:54 Another 1hr+ video solved! This was fun and weird
normal sudoku rules do NOT apply! Finally!!!
71:49 for me
nice puzzle
I'm not sure why Simon kept seeming to ignore cell R4C5 when figuring out the colors in row 4. He had purple, red, and green plus either grey or orange for his total of four colors, so R4C3 could never be blue and thus R2C4 had to be blue.
I probably did something wrong, had multiple times that I couldn't find any conflicts after I finished different solutions. Kept scanning and couldn't find the problem. Just ended up deleting and trying something else since I couldn't see what was wrong. 3+ hours
For a guess, it will have been one of:
- a digit repeating in a cage
- not enough different digits in one of the higher rows/columns
o, quite interesting that you got motion sickness! Until now I found nobody who has it besides myself. Additionally, in german it is called "Simulationsschwindel" (simulation vertigo) which doesn't make things better first because Schwindel is a teapot word with the meanings "vertigo" and "scam" - so who would admit to "simulation vertigo/scam"? 😢 So thank you for sharing! No longer being alone 😊
51:18 for me :)
damn. made a mistake at the end. mistook light grey and dark grey. i had a great time too. stupid mistake.
Challenging!
79:35 for me
Welp, I put 90 minutes into it, made and caught several mistakes, but still not correct in the end. Gonna see how close I was...
EDIT: Looks like I had the wrong digit in r5c6, but a lot of my other logic was correct. I was counting six different digits in column 6, but my mistake came from counting a letter A I was using and a possible 8 in r6c6 as two different digits, forgetting that A could equal 8.
28:15 for me. Fantastic puzzle!!
Let's Get Cracking: 06:25
Simon's time: 1h4m45s
Puzzle Solved: 1:11:10
What about this video's Top Tier Simarkisms?!
The Secret: 3x (38:33, 38:36, 38:41)
And how about this video's Simarkisms?!
Ah: 18x (05:37, 12:15, 13:56, 14:30, 16:13, 20:37, 27:54, 30:03, 38:29, 40:54, 43:39, 45:00, 47:39, 1:02:56, 1:03:08, 1:05:02, 1:05:42, 1:05:42)
Unique: 16x (04:45, 05:20, 05:25, 05:28, 05:31, 06:40, 09:17, 09:21, 19:52, 20:43, 20:56, 21:34, 47:53, 54:34, 1:06:12, 1:07:39)
Sorry: 11x (10:35, 10:49, 11:16, 11:29, 20:07, 23:18, 25:14, 33:25, 45:43, 46:57, 1:08:27)
Clever: 8x (08:37, 33:48, 37:34, 38:31, 48:14, 58:11, 1:11:51, 1:11:54)
In Fact: 8x (25:02, 25:06, 45:33, 57:13, 59:05, 1:01:41, 1:05:09, 1:09:25)
Weird: 7x (05:37, 09:37, 21:06, 26:06, 30:21, 33:53, 59:22)
Wow: 6x (36:16, 37:02, 43:21, 44:34, 47:34, 1:11:10)
Hang On: 5x (12:34, 16:13, 28:48, 38:14, 1:08:01)
What on Earth: 4x (16:46, 18:51, 43:29, 54:08)
By Sudoku: 4x (14:42, 39:21, 59:20, 1:10:21)
Obviously: 3x (02:42, 44:49, 1:09:12)
That's Huge: 3x (39:56, 47:42)
Goodness: 2x (54:08, 55:20)
Brilliant: 2x (04:02, 58:27)
What Does This Mean?: 2x (13:22, 50:12)
Apologies: 1x (16:49)
I Have no Clue: 1x (44:23)
Extraordinary: 1x (1:10:50)
Red Five Standing By: 1x (39:46)
Phone is Buzzing: 1x (17:55)
Cake!: 1x (04:06)
Uniqueness: 1x (21:24)
Most popular number(>9), digit and colour this video:
Seventeen, Twenty (9 mentions)
Three (77 mentions)
Green (116 mentions)
Antithesis Battles:
Even (3) - Odd (0)
Black (19) - White (8)
Row (60) - Column (57)
FAQ:
Q1: You missed something!
A1: That could very well be the case! Human speech can be hard to understand for computers like me! Point out the ones that I missed and maybe I'll learn!
Q2: Can you do this for another channel?
A2: I've been thinking about that and wrote some code to make that possible. Let me know which channel you think would be a good fit!
31:06 for me.
Is it just me or does the row 3 example contradict the no repeat digits in a cage rule? I assume the row example was out of context to the puzzle. Aside from that, looking forward to this one as the rules are intriguing.
It also contradicts the later white dot rule, but I guess it's only interested in giving an example for the rule currently reached.
Is that example a mistake? I've been wracking my brains to understand how it didn't break the rules so gave up and didn't bother trying the puzzle!@@RichSmith77
@@peterwest7855 I think this was a rare puzzle where I leapt straight in and hadn't yet watched Simon's explanation of the rules, before trying it. So I didn't see the example written actually into the grid, as Simon does. I just saw it as three distinct digits for row 3, and is therefore an example of n digits in row n.
It's a pity it doesn't also follow the later cage and dot rules, and I can see how that could be confusing. But at the point the example is given in the rules, I think it's meant to be simply an example of n digits in row/column n, and no more. It's demonstrating how that specific rule can be filled. After all, when they demonstrate any rule and pick random digits that obey that one rule, it's very unlikely that the digits match the final solution, so it could be argued most times they give examples, since they're not the final solution digits, they must cause a conflict with one of the other rules somewhere down the line.
47 minutes
I couldn't watch much. Not quickly going to the last column and row after deducing the firsts, was too painful.
Call this format "Duploku"?
Oh look, a sudoku about president 45 🦆
Oh look, a mentally ill edgelord who can't keep his politics out of his fingertips. This is a Sudoku channel. Go away.
I’m no fan of that guy, but this is a sudoku channel. Keep the politics and negativity away from the comment section please.
I'm the last person to support trump, but can we not make literally everything about dissing him. This is a British based sudoku and puzzles youtube channel.